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  • Nightlily
    Nightlily closed this thread because:
    Change was implemented a long time ago ;-)
    15:43, August 28, 2020

    As you know, there are several episodes where a character only appears in shapeshifted form, such as Rapunzel in "Eloise Gardener", Prince Eric in "A Wondrous Place" and most of Marian's appearances in Season Four. At the moment, the appearance lists state that the character appears in the episode; but strictly speaking, that is not correct, as we only see someone impersonating them and not the characters themselves.

    What if we modify the Appearances section for these characters and add an "Impersonated" parameter to the appearances section, instead of using the normal "Appears" parameter? That way, the data are clear and correct, and the debate about shapeshifted characters appearing or not, would be solved once and for all. What do you think?

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    • Agree

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    • Agree

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    • Agree.

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    • Agree with the parameter, though we should consider three other issues relating to them.

      1.Galleries, shapeshifted images in both, the original or the character who actually appeared.

      2. Intro, do we list the impersonated characters as also known as (or list some but not all).

      3. Do we include the actors on the Shapeshifting characters page.

      So my opinions are Both, just the ones where the character was actually going by that, and no or #2.

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    • Agree with NightLily.

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    • Agree and yes to all.

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    • Agree

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    • Agree

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    • As I said on the other thread, glomour is only an illusion, which only effects the world, not the caster at all. Zelena was always Zelena. We just happened to see "Marian". It's not a shapeshifting at all.

      Therefore, I agree (with Lily).

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    • Agree

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    • And @Schroeswald

      1. I personally vote for listing it on the impersonated characters page. For example: if we have the the images of Gothel as Rapunzel in Lady Tremaine's, it’s odd because that wasn’t her and it could confuse people into thinking it’s her.

      2. Probably. I mean, Zelena was known as Marian almost a whole season.

      3. I don’t see a problem with doing that. They technically are playing them.

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    • Another suggestion, I think for linking (I.e. in the History section or the Cast lists), we should link it to the person impersonating them but have it listed as the person they are impersonating. Example Gothel|Rapunzel - Zelena|Maid Marian.

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    • RedCoatOfficial wrote:
      Another suggestion, I think for linking (I.e. in the History section or the Cast lists), we should link it to the person impersonating them but have it listed as the person they are impersonating. Example Gothel|Rapunzel - Zelena|Maid Marian.

      We're already doing this.

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    • ^On the cast list though it links to the person they're impersonating.

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    • Agree. It was really confusing when it comes to a character shapeshifting and impresonating a different character. However, the actors that was impresonating by another character would be credited as appeared, right?

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    • RedCoatOfficial wrote:
      ^On the cast list though it links to the person they're impersonating.

      I've just checked it out, you're right. I thought we're doing it already.

      With a note below, I agree with your suggestion.

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    • CadoDoan wrote: As I said on the other thread, glomour is only an illusion, which only effects the world, not the caster at all. Zelena was always Zelena. We just happened to see "Marian". It's not a shapeshifting at all.

      Therefore, I agree (with Lily).

      So, do you disagree with adding shapeshifting in galleries?

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    • Nick Branson wrote:

      CadoDoan wrote: As I said on the other thread, glomour is only an illusion, which only effects the world, not the caster at all. Zelena was always Zelena. We just happened to see "Marian". It's not a shapeshifting at all.

      Therefore, I agree (with Lily).

      So, do you disagree with adding shapeshifting in galleries?

      I think the safest thing to do about galleries is to put the images on both characters.

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    • CadoDoan wrote:

      Nick Branson wrote:

      CadoDoan wrote: As I said on the other thread, glomour is only an illusion, which only effects the world, not the caster at all. Zelena was always Zelena. We just happened to see "Marian". It's not a shapeshifting at all.

      Therefore, I agree (with Lily).

      So, do you disagree with adding shapeshifting in galleries?

      I think the safest thing to do about galleries to put the images on both characters.

      I agree with that

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    • Agree

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    • I totally agree.

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    • What would the color be? I suggest blue, as we already have like 3 reds and one green. Imo, I like this one: #5575e0.

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    • Truest Believer wrote:
      What would the color be? I suggest blue, as we already have like 3 reds and one green. Imo, I like this one: #5575e0.

      We need to have a community consensus first.

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    • The reason I’m not sure we want to list everything in the intro is that Zelena’s page will look like this:

      Zelena, formerly known as the Wicked Witch of the West, currently known as Kelly West,[1], briefly known as Ariel, the Wizard of Oz, Marian, Regina, and Mother Superior is a character on ABC's Once Upon a Time. She débuts in the twelfth episode of the third season and is portrayed by special guest star Rebecca Mader, guest stars Isabella Blake-Thomas, JoAnna Garcia Swisher, Christopher Gorham, Christie Laing, Keegan Connor Tracy and starring cast member Lana Parrilla.

      The Wicked Witch of the West is based on the character of the same name from the children's novel The Wonderful Wizard of Oz. Zelena is also an allusion to Persephone from Greek Mythology, and to the Enchantress from the Disney film Beauty and the Beast.

      And I don’t think we really want that.


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    • Schroeswald wrote:
      The reason I’m not sure we want to list everything in the intro is that Zelena’s page will look like this:

      Zelena, formerly known as the Wicked Witch of the West, currently known as Kelly West,[1], briefly known as Ariel, the Wizard of Oz, Marian, Regina, and Mother Superior is a character on ABC's Once Upon a Time. She débuts in the twelfth episode of the third season and is portrayed by special guest star Rebecca Mader, guest stars Isabella Blake-Thomas, JoAnna Garcia Swisher, Christopher Gorham, Christie Laing, Keegan Connor Tracy and starring cast member Lana Parrilla.

      The Wicked Witch of the West is based on the character of the same name from the children's novel The Wonderful Wizard of Oz. Zelena is also an allusion to Persephone from Greek Mythology, and to the Enchantress from the Disney film Beauty and the Beast.

      And I don’t think we really want that.

      Schroeswald did an excellent job. It looks awful and really bad. I disagree as well.


      Cite error: <ref> tags exist, but no <references/> tag was found
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    • Schroeswald wrote:
      The reason I’m not sure we want to list everything in the intro is that Zelena’s page will look like this:

      Zelena, formerly known as the Wicked Witch of the West, currently known as Kelly West,[1], briefly known as Ariel, the Wizard of Oz, Marian, Regina, and Mother Superior is a character on ABC's Once Upon a Time. She débuts in the twelfth episode of the third season and is portrayed by special guest star Rebecca Mader, guest stars Isabella Blake-Thomas, JoAnna Garcia Swisher, Christopher Gorham, Christie Laing, Keegan Connor Tracy and starring cast member Lana Parrilla.

      The Wicked Witch of the West is based on the character of the same name from the children's novel The Wonderful Wizard of Oz. Zelena is also an allusion to Persephone from Greek Mythology, and to the Enchantress from the Disney film Beauty and the Beast.

      And I don’t think we really want that.


      Infobox parameter maybe?


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    • Agree. We should not list it in the intro. Outside of the episode in which it happens (excepting Marian) it's usually a one off thing that isn't really that important to know.

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    • Agree with an "impersonated" parameter, and the images appearing on the caster's gallery (although then we'd have very few pictures of Maid Marian, in only 4 episodes :/). I also agree with Truest Believer's suggestion on the color.

      Maybe on the intros we can say something like "Her glamoured appearances are portrayed by guest stars Christie Laing, JoAnna Garcia Swisher, etc."?

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    • Well, with more than enough people agreeing (16, myself included), I've updated the template. For now, the "Impersonated" parameter is blue, but if you prefer a different color, you are free to discuss it and pick another one.

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    • Black Necked Swan wrote:
      Agree with an "impersonated" parameter, and the images appearing on the caster's gallery (although then we'd have very few pictures of Maid Marian, in only 4 episodes :/). I also agree with Truest Believer's suggestion on the color.

      Maybe on the intros we can say something like "Her glamoured appearances are portrayed by guest stars Christie Laing, JoAnna Garcia Swisher, etc."?

      It think a reference after "...and is portrayed by Rebecca Mader and Isabella Blake-Thomas" would be fine, saying what you proposed

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    • Truest Believer wrote:
      Black Necked Swan wrote:
      Agree with an "impersonated" parameter, and the images appearing on the caster's gallery (although then we'd have very few pictures of Maid Marian, in only 4 episodes :/). I also agree with Truest Believer's suggestion on the color.

      Maybe on the intros we can say something like "Her glamoured appearances are portrayed by guest stars Christie Laing, JoAnna Garcia Swisher, etc."?

      It think a reference after "...and is portrayed by Rebecca Mader and Isabella Blake-Thomas" would be fine, saying what you proposed

      Guys, the intro is fine. No need to mess it up. Remember, this discussion was opened only because of the appearances. And it's great now.

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    • Schroeswald wrote:
      The reason I’m not sure we want to list everything in the intro is that Zelena’s page will look like this:

      Zelena, formerly known as the Wicked Witch of the West, currently known as Kelly West,[1], briefly known as Ariel, the Wizard of Oz, Marian, Regina, and Mother Superior is a character on ABC's Once Upon a Time. She débuts in the twelfth episode of the third season and is portrayed by special guest star Rebecca Mader, guest stars Isabella Blake-Thomas, JoAnna Garcia Swisher, Christopher Gorham, Christie Laing, Keegan Connor Tracy and starring cast member Lana Parrilla.

      The Wicked Witch of the West is based on the character of the same name from the children's novel The Wonderful Wizard of Oz. Zelena is also an allusion to Persephone from Greek Mythology, and to the Enchantress from the Disney film Beauty and the Beast.

      And I don’t think we really want that.


      Yeah, we shouldn't do that. Zelena wasn't known as those people, she was pretending to be those people. Similarly, the actors were playing their own characters, more or less, it is just Zelena was impersonating those characters.


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    • I mean Zelena was known as Marian for a significant amount of time so I would like that but every other impersonation was pretty minor and they weren’t really known as that.

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    • Schroeswald wrote:
      I mean Zelena was known as Marian for a significant amount of time so I would like that but every other impersonation was pretty minor and they weren’t really known as that.

      But even with Marian, it is the same situation, she just pretended to be her for longer. Zelena didn't change her name to Marian, she was using Marian as a disguise.

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    • Agree. I think we should change the way the gallery is too, so the impersonator's new appearance, is still in the impersonators gallery

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:

      Schroeswald wrote:
      I mean Zelena was known as Marian for a significant amount of time so I would like that but every other impersonation was pretty minor and they weren’t really known as that.

      But even with Marian, it is the same situation, she just pretended to be her for longer. Zelena didn't change her name to Marian, she was using Marian as a disguise.

      The intro does look bad but that's not a good case to she didn't change her name to that. The intros have nicknames too like Mal and Drizzy. Marian is also kinda a "nickname".

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    • Nick Branson wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:

      Schroeswald wrote:
      I mean Zelena was known as Marian for a significant amount of time so I would like that but every other impersonation was pretty minor and they weren’t really known as that.
      But even with Marian, it is the same situation, she just pretended to be her for longer. Zelena didn't change her name to Marian, she was using Marian as a disguise.
      The intro does look bad but that's not a good case to she didn't change her name to that. The intros have nicknames too like Mal and Drizzy. Marian is also kinda a "nickname".

      Marian isn't a nickname for Zelena. Zelena only goes by Marian because she impersonated her. If Zelena didn't, no one would ever call her Marian. Totally different from Mal (short for Maleficent) and Drizzy (short for Drizella).

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Nick Branson wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:


      Schroeswald wrote:
      I mean Zelena was known as Marian for a significant amount of time so I would like that but every other impersonation was pretty minor and they weren’t really known as that.
      But even with Marian, it is the same situation, she just pretended to be her for longer. Zelena didn't change her name to Marian, she was using Marian as a disguise.
      The intro does look bad but that's not a good case to she didn't change her name to that. The intros have nicknames too like Mal and Drizzy. Marian is also kinda a "nickname".
      Marian isn't a nickname for Zelena. Zelena only goes by Marian because she impersonated her. If Zelena didn't, no one would ever call her Marian. Totally different from Mal (short for Maleficent) and Drizzy (short for Drizella).

      CDA explained it well. It's not the same situation at all.

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    • We still don't have a consensus of whether to put impersonated characters in both galleries. (Ex: images of Gothel disguising as Rapunzel in both Rapunzel and Gothel's galleries)

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    • Nick Branson wrote:
      We still don't have a consensus of whether to put impersonated characters in both galleries. (Ex: images of Gothel disguising as Rapunzel in both Rapunzel and Gothel's galleries)

      Glamour is only an illusion, which affects world, not the caster at all. So when we see "Marian", we actually see Zelena, since Zelena is always Zelena. And as Regina said once, she didn't feel different when glamoured as "Wilma", so that also supports that.

      The character galleries are NOT actor galleries. Gothel used a glamour spell to illude the world so that everyone (including us) just thinks they see Rapunzel. However, as in show's perspective, Gothel didn't shapeshifted at all. She was always in her true form.

      For example, Gothel's disguise as Rapunzel pics must go to Gothel gallery, whilst no pics should go to Rapunzel. That's what I'd like to suggest.

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    • would it be fair to add rumple to this list or cora

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    • CadoDoan wrote:
      Nick Branson wrote:
      We still don't have a consensus of whether to put impersonated characters in both galleries. (Ex: images of Gothel disguising as Rapunzel in both Rapunzel and Gothel's galleries)

      I think even if the characters are shapeshifted, they still aren't literally the characters they're pretnding to be, they're just in another form, so I think we should keep the shapeshifted charcters, in the gallery of the impersonator.

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    • Lola987 wrote:

      CadoDoan wrote:
      Nick Branson wrote:
      We still don't have a consensus of whether to put impersonated characters in both galleries. (Ex: images of Gothel disguising as Rapunzel in both Rapunzel and Gothel's galleries)

      I think even if the characters are shapeshifted, they still aren't literally the characters they're pretnding to be, they're just in another form, so I think we should keep the shapeshifted charcters, in the gallery of the impersonator.

      Agree.

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    • Lola987 wrote:
      CadoDoan wrote:
      Nick Branson wrote:
      We still don't have a consensus of whether to put impersonated characters in both galleries. (Ex: images of Gothel disguising as Rapunzel in both Rapunzel and Gothel's galleries)
      I think even if the characters are shapeshifted, they still aren't literally the characters they're pretnding to be, they're just in another form, so I think we should keep the shapeshifted charcters, in the gallery of the impersonator.

      Agree

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    • I agree with what others are saying. Keep it only in the impersonators category. Like others have said, that was not Rapunzel Tremaine with Hook, it was Gothel in disguise. No matter how much she looks like her, it’s still Gothel.

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