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  • In my opinion, what killed the show after season 4 was CS (IN MY OWN OPINION) and it's not because Emma didn't stayed with someone else. It's because it was badly done. It's not Colin's fault. He is a wonderful actor and I used to love Hook until season 3.... But after that.... he and his actions, his "redemption arc" that, in my opinion didn't happen as he, on the day of his marriage, still wanted revenge against Gold... For me, they aren't the same because, Nook is truly a hero, who regrets of his past. Who deserves a happy ending (hopefully with Tiana). What made he change from the sick sexist person that he was once, was his daughter Alice.... So, for me, they are completely opposite characters

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    • I think the only real difference between the two is Nook have up revenge early and became a parent, whereas Hook entered into quasi-repeat situation.

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    • Matheus1234zx wrote:
      In my opinion, what killed the show after season 4 was CS (IN MY OWN OPINION) and it's not because Emma didn't stayed with someone else. It's because it was badly done. It's not Colin's fault. He is a wonderful actor and I used to love Hook until season 3.... But after that.... he and his actions, his "redemption arc" that, in my opinion didn't happen as he, on the day of his marriage, still wanted revenge against Gold... For me, they aren't the same because, Nook is truly a hero, who regrets of his past. Who deserves a happy ending (hopefully with Tiana). What made he change from the sick sexist person that he was once, was his daughter Alice.... So, for me, they are completely opposite characters

      I totally shipped CS from seasons 1-3 but after that it started to be a little too much. Season 6 had tooo many CS focused episodes, and they focused more on CS than other characters (which i think is not cool). 

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    • Not the biggest CS fan (don't dislike the ship or the charcters), but I prefer Nook, because it's refreshing to see who Hook is without Emma. I feel like since CS, Hook hasn't really been his own person.

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    • Lola987 wrote: Not the biggest CS fan (don't dislike the ship or the charcters), but I prefer Nook, because it's refreshing to see who Hook is without Emma. I feel like since CS, Hook hasn't really been his own person.

      THIS. 100%. ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. TOP MESSAGE \o/

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    • Hook and Nook - the exact same, until Dark curse, which did not happened in Wish Realm.

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    • They are the same person biologically, but because the timelines split, their experineces split. Whereas Hook gets over Milah because of Emma (trading one woman for another), WHook gets over Milah because he has to take care of Alice (trading romantic love for paternal love). So they aren't complete opposites, but they are different because of the different paths their lives went.

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    • Completely disagree. Hook and Nook are the exact same guy just in different situations.

      I made a post about it on my Tumblr here:

      http://newyearsswifts.tumblr.com/post/169575118399/original-hookwish-hook-similiarities

      They have the same personalities and traits, said traits just manifested differently because they were in different situations.

      I would like to point out that when Hook threatened Rumple, Rumple was working with the Black Fairy to destroy them all. Heroes threaten the villains, it's kinda the MO. 

      Snow threatened Regina. Charming threatened Arthur. Emma threatened Pan. Are they all evil sociopaths?

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    • Lady Rapunzel wrote:
      Matheus1234zx wrote:
      In my opinion, what killed the show after season 4 was CS (IN MY OWN OPINION) and it's not because Emma didn't stayed with someone else. It's because it was badly done. It's not Colin's fault. He is a wonderful actor and I used to love Hook until season 3.... But after that.... he and his actions, his "redemption arc" that, in my opinion didn't happen as he, on the day of his marriage, still wanted revenge against Gold... For me, they aren't the same because, Nook is truly a hero, who regrets of his past. Who deserves a happy ending (hopefully with Tiana). What made he change from the sick sexist person that he was once, was his daughter Alice.... So, for me, they are completely opposite characters
      I totally shipped CS from seasons 1-3 but after that it started to be a little too much. Season 6 had tooo many CS focused episodes, and they focused more on CS than other characters (which i think is not cool). 

      Too much focus on CS? In the whole of season 6 there was a whopping 26 minutes of CS. CS were sidelined for others.

      And CS, liek it or not, is the protagonist's romance, and on a romance driven show like this it will get a lot of focus, like how Snowing did in season 1.

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    • Lola987 wrote:
      Not the biggest CS fan (don't dislike the ship or the charcters), but I prefer Nook, because it's refreshing to see who Hook is without Emma. I feel like since CS, Hook hasn't really been his own person.

      Agree 100%

      But, more than Nook himself (even though I liked him especially in 7x11 flashback), I really like Rogers, his cursed identity. 

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    • Aine1989 wrote:
      Completely disagree. Hook and Nook are the exact same guy just in different situations.

      I made a post about it on my Tumblr here:

      http://newyearsswifts.tumblr.com/post/169575118399/original-hookwish-hook-similiarities

      They have the same personalities and traits, said traits just manifested differently because they were in different situations.

      I would like to point out that when Hook threatened Rumple, Rumple was working with the Black Fairy to destroy them all. Heroes threaten the villains, it's kinda the MO. 

      Snow threatened Regina. Charming threatened Arthur. Emma threatened Pan. Are they all evil sociopaths?

      One thing s threaten. The other is say: "Now I'm finally going to skin the croc!"

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    • Aine1989 wrote:
      Lady Rapunzel wrote:
      Matheus1234zx wrote:
      In my opinion, what killed the show after season 4 was CS (IN MY OWN OPINION) and it's not because Emma didn't stayed with someone else. It's because it was badly done. It's not Colin's fault. He is a wonderful actor and I used to love Hook until season 3.... But after that.... he and his actions, his "redemption arc" that, in my opinion didn't happen as he, on the day of his marriage, still wanted revenge against Gold... For me, they aren't the same because, Nook is truly a hero, who regrets of his past. Who deserves a happy ending (hopefully with Tiana). What made he change from the sick sexist person that he was once, was his daughter Alice.... So, for me, they are completely opposite characters
      I totally shipped CS from seasons 1-3 but after that it started to be a little too much. Season 6 had tooo many CS focused episodes, and they focused more on CS than other characters (which i think is not cool). 
      Too much focus on CS? In the whole of season 6 there was a whopping 26 minutes of CS. CS were sidelined for others.

      And CS, liek it or not, is the protagonist's romance, and on a romance driven show like this it will get a lot of focus, like how Snowing did in season 1.

      CS was the main focus of Season 6 and that's why it wasn't as good as it could've been

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    • Matheus1234zx wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      Lady Rapunzel wrote:
      Matheus1234zx wrote:
      In my opinion, what killed the show after season 4 was CS (IN MY OWN OPINION) and it's not because Emma didn't stayed with someone else. It's because it was badly done. It's not Colin's fault. He is a wonderful actor and I used to love Hook until season 3.... But after that.... he and his actions, his "redemption arc" that, in my opinion didn't happen as he, on the day of his marriage, still wanted revenge against Gold... For me, they aren't the same because, Nook is truly a hero, who regrets of his past. Who deserves a happy ending (hopefully with Tiana). What made he change from the sick sexist person that he was once, was his daughter Alice.... So, for me, they are completely opposite characters
      I totally shipped CS from seasons 1-3 but after that it started to be a little too much. Season 6 had tooo many CS focused episodes, and they focused more on CS than other characters (which i think is not cool). 
      Too much focus on CS? In the whole of season 6 there was a whopping 26 minutes of CS. CS were sidelined for others.

      And CS, liek it or not, is the protagonist's romance, and on a romance driven show like this it will get a lot of focus, like how Snowing did in season 1.

      CS was the main focus of Season 6 and that's why it wasn't as good as it could've been

      How can it have been the main focus with 26 minutes of screentime?

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    • Matheus1234zx wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      Completely disagree. Hook and Nook are the exact same guy just in different situations.

      I made a post about it on my Tumblr here:

      http://newyearsswifts.tumblr.com/post/169575118399/original-hookwish-hook-similiarities

      They have the same personalities and traits, said traits just manifested differently because they were in different situations.

      I would like to point out that when Hook threatened Rumple, Rumple was working with the Black Fairy to destroy them all. Heroes threaten the villains, it's kinda the MO. 

      Snow threatened Regina. Charming threatened Arthur. Emma threatened Pan. Are they all evil sociopaths?

      One thing s threaten. The other is say: "Now I'm finally going to skin the croc!"

      Well if someone had murdered my girlfriend, maimed me, repeatedly tried to kill my loved ones, serverely abused my friend and tortured me.... I would hold a grudge. Especially if they had aided someone in harming my fiancee after deceiving us.

      Rumple is/was the villain in that situation and Killian was the hero. Therefore Killian owed him no compassion or kindness. Frankly, threanting to skin him is letting him off lightly. 

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    • Aine1989 wrote:
      Matheus1234zx wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      Lady Rapunzel wrote:
      Matheus1234zx wrote:
      In my opinion, what killed the show after season 4 was CS (IN MY OWN OPINION) and it's not because Emma didn't stayed with someone else. It's because it was badly done. It's not Colin's fault. He is a wonderful actor and I used to love Hook until season 3.... But after that.... he and his actions, his "redemption arc" that, in my opinion didn't happen as he, on the day of his marriage, still wanted revenge against Gold... For me, they aren't the same because, Nook is truly a hero, who regrets of his past. Who deserves a happy ending (hopefully with Tiana). What made he change from the sick sexist person that he was once, was his daughter Alice.... So, for me, they are completely opposite characters
      I totally shipped CS from seasons 1-3 but after that it started to be a little too much. Season 6 had tooo many CS focused episodes, and they focused more on CS than other characters (which i think is not cool). 
      Too much focus on CS? In the whole of season 6 there was a whopping 26 minutes of CS. CS were sidelined for others.

      And CS, liek it or not, is the protagonist's romance, and on a romance driven show like this it will get a lot of focus, like how Snowing did in season 1.

      CS was the main focus of Season 6 and that's why it wasn't as good as it could've been
      How can it have been the main focus with 26 minutes of screentime?

      Emma was driven to be with Hook and only this. She didn't wanted to die because of Hook. Hook was everything she could see. She almost sacrificed the chance of her parents breaking the sleeping curse to save Hook.... If that's not the main focus, I don't know what it is....

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    • Hook is a poor choice of a scapegoat if you see him as the reason for subjectively poor writing or execution.

      Hook and Nook have essentially the same exact traits. I think the Wish Variants are a tad more comedic, but that’s about it.

      Hook is a quick-tempered, alcoholic while Nook is just a sober variant. And...besides switching out Emma for Alice, essentially the same.

      I’m certain that the WR variants are the same as their real counterparts (except a bit more comedic).

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    • Matheus1234zx wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      Matheus1234zx wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      Lady Rapunzel wrote:
      Matheus1234zx wrote:
      In my opinion, what killed the show after season 4 was CS (IN MY OWN OPINION) and it's not because Emma didn't stayed with someone else. It's because it was badly done. It's not Colin's fault. He is a wonderful actor and I used to love Hook until season 3.... But after that.... he and his actions, his "redemption arc" that, in my opinion didn't happen as he, on the day of his marriage, still wanted revenge against Gold... For me, they aren't the same because, Nook is truly a hero, who regrets of his past. Who deserves a happy ending (hopefully with Tiana). What made he change from the sick sexist person that he was once, was his daughter Alice.... So, for me, they are completely opposite characters
      I totally shipped CS from seasons 1-3 but after that it started to be a little too much. Season 6 had tooo many CS focused episodes, and they focused more on CS than other characters (which i think is not cool). 
      Too much focus on CS? In the whole of season 6 there was a whopping 26 minutes of CS. CS were sidelined for others.

      And CS, liek it or not, is the protagonist's romance, and on a romance driven show like this it will get a lot of focus, like how Snowing did in season 1.

      CS was the main focus of Season 6 and that's why it wasn't as good as it could've been
      How can it have been the main focus with 26 minutes of screentime?
      Emma was driven to be with Hook and only this. She didn't wanted to die because of Hook. Hook was everything she could see. She almost sacrificed the chance of her parents breaking the sleeping curse to save Hook.... If that's not the main focus, I don't know what it is....

      Um, no she didn't want to die because of her whole family. If you forgot, she had a scene with Henry and the secret was revealed in front of her whole family. And then Henry got a lot of focus the next episode with regard to Emma dying.

      I will not touch the whole curse breaking thing bcause that is too much nonsense for thsi thread.

      You used two examples from two episodes and tried to act as though that took over the whole season. Bad form.

      Other arcs in s6 included:

      The Split Queen

      The Shared Sleeping Curse

      Rumple and Belle's drama

      Gideon/The Black Fairy

      Aladdin and Jasmine

      Like I said, CS got 26 minutes of screentime, which boils down to 2.78%. So there was 97.22% of the show you just didn't watch, apparently.

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    • They have the same character traits. I have not seen anything in particular that shows the wish version of Hook as "more of his own character apart from _____." The original Hook got plenty of non-Emma plotlines. I think it just boils down to whether you prefer romantic relationships or parent/child ones when considering both Hooks. Like Eskaver mentioned above, they really did just swap out Emma for Alice and started him off as "redeemed by default" instead of showing a journey.

      They are separate people like Regina/EQ were "separate people" - literally the same at one point but experiences divulged at a certain point.

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    • I don't think Emma and Hook were the only plot line in Season 6, but where are you getting that they only had 26 minutes of screentime? Are you saying 26 minutes of screentime that is solely Emma and Hook on screen? Because that's not really fair to count only that. Everything that deals with Emma and Hook's relationship should count as their screentime. Hook being worried Emma will be mad at him for killing David's father is Emma and Hook related. Emma trying on a wedding dress is Emma and Hook related. So it isn't fair to tell people that only 26 minutes focus on Emma and Hook, when from a plot perspective, that's clearly not the case.

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      I don't think Emma and Hook were the only plot line in Season 6, but where are you getting that they only had 26 minutes of screentime? Are you saying 26 minutes of screentime that is solely Emma and Hook on screen? Because that's not really fair to count only that. Everything that deals with Emma and Hook's relationship should count as their screentime. Hook being worried Emma will be mad at him for killing David's father is Emma and Hook related. Emma trying on a wedding dress is Emma and Hook related. So it isn't fair to tell people that only 26 minutes focus on Emma and Hook, when from a plot perspective, that's clearly not the case.

      Yeah, 26 minutes where they are involved with each other, even if that isn't the main focus.

      CS were turned into a plot device in 6b for the BF plot, so they were used to further someone else's arc, no the other way around.

      And I repeat, even if s6 was focussed on CS, how would that be bad or unusual? Remember s1 when pretty much everything revolved around Snowing?

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    • Aine1989 wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      I don't think Emma and Hook were the only plot line in Season 6, but where are you getting that they only had 26 minutes of screentime? Are you saying 26 minutes of screentime that is solely Emma and Hook on screen? Because that's not really fair to count only that. Everything that deals with Emma and Hook's relationship should count as their screentime. Hook being worried Emma will be mad at him for killing David's father is Emma and Hook related. Emma trying on a wedding dress is Emma and Hook related. So it isn't fair to tell people that only 26 minutes focus on Emma and Hook, when from a plot perspective, that's clearly not the case.
      Yeah, 26 minutes where they are involved with each other, even if that isn't the main focus.

      CS were turned into a plot device in 6b for the BF plot, so they were used to further someone else's arc, no the other way around.

      And I repeat, even if s6 was focussed on CS, how would that be bad or unusual? Remember s1 when pretty much everything revolved around Snowing?

      I'm not complaining that Emma and Hook got focus in Season 6, I agree with your point that Emma was the main character of the first six seasons, so it makes sense her ending is a fairytale one (i.e. getting married to a man). I'm just saying you can't say they only had 26 minutes of focus in Season 6, because it just doesn't hold water. Also, I wouldn't say all the wedding planning, the proposal, the venue scouting, etc. had something to do with the Black Fairy or her plot. That was all clearly set up for the wedding (which again, I'm not aganist, I expected it to happen) of Emma and Hook. Basically, I disagree with saying they only had 26 minutes of focus in Season 6. I'd say they did have quite a bit of focus (at least 2 hours over the whole season), but that the focus is justified.

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    • Throughout episodes 15 and 16 everything Emma or Hook does is just being devices other people's stories (Gideon/Black Fairy for Emma, Jasmine/Liam/Ariel for Hook). Episodes 8 and 10-11, very tiny less than 60 seconds of focus.

      And while I may have to do some rewatching, I'm pretty sure when she wasn't with Hook or he wasn;t in the scene he was barely mentioned.

      Imo the lack of focus on CS was one of the reasons s6 sucked, not just as a shipper but they barely spent any time together and so the wedding had very little build up and was crammed into an already tight arc.

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    • (MOD): This is not a season 6 like or dislike thread. This is not a “Captain Swan” thread. This is not a screentime thread. It’s Hook or Nook: Similarities/Differences.

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    • I couldn't help but notice that the head post (is that what we call it?) implies that Hook does not regret his past.

      So let me ask, if he does not, how do you explain:

      "I was a broken man who did terrible things"

      "What I did was worse than breaking her heart" (paraphrasing here)

      "I was the villain in that little drama, Swan"

      "I left an innocent boy an orphan"/allowing Liam to kill him

      "Despite the forgiveness of others, I must forgive myself and I'm not there yet"

      "I am so sorry Ariel"

      "Every ring is a sad story"

      Plus all the regret on his face which is there, plain as day? Killian has shown repeatedly to have regretted his past. Unlike Nook (much as I like him) who has not shown as much regret as Hook as (which I get bc he hasn't even been there a full season).

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    • Aine1989 wrote:
      Completely disagree. Hook and Nook are the exact same guy just in different situations.

      I made a post about it on my Tumblr here:

      http://newyearsswifts.tumblr.com/post/169575118399/original-hookwish-hook-similiarities

      They have the same personalities and traits, said traits just manifested differently because they were in different situations.

      I would like to point out that when Hook threatened Rumple, Rumple was working with the Black Fairy to destroy them all. Heroes threaten the villains, it's kinda the MO. 

      Snow threatened Regina. Charming threatened Arthur. Emma threatened Pan. Are they all evil sociopaths?

      My thoughts exactly

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    • Eskaver
      Eskaver removed this reply because:
      Offtopic
      21:43, March 6, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • Eskaver
      Eskaver removed this reply because:
      Offtopic
      21:43, March 6, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • I stopped watching Once after the frozen arc (came back for s7 because it seemed interesting) so I cant add to any discussions to who Hook was in later seasons, but I would agree with my limited knowledge that Nook and Hook are similar. It’s not so much the character, but the use of the character that was a problem for me, as Hook was a big reason that I stopped watching.

      Hook was a very good antagonist in my opinion, but not a good love interest. It didn’t really suit his character (and I must also admit I was sick of all the main villains getting redeemed by that point). But my biggest problem was that, because his love interest was the protagonist of the show, Hook became a far too significant character and caused an imbalance. I’m still of the opinion Neal wouldn’t have died if it wasn’t for how they wanted Hook as Emma’s love interest. And quite plainly, I thought the CS relationship negatively changed both characters.

      Nook’s main story, on the other hand, is connected to a minor character, so I don’t find that he is overused or given too much importance, and for me that makes him a lot easier to watch.

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    • CuriousZ wrote:

      I’m still of the opinion Neal wouldn’t have died if it wasn’t for how they wanted Hook as Emma’s love interest.

      No, he would have anyway because 1) MRJ wanted to leave 2) His time on the show was done 3) They couldn't have Rumple be the villain he had to be with Neal in the picture.

      Narratively, Neal was doomed from day 1.

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    • (MOD): If we continue to go offtopic, this thread will be closed. Emma’s choices in love interest has nothing to do with Nook and Hook’s similarities and differences.

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    • I agree with what Jenna said a few replies ago that the crux of the "Hook v Nook" argument boils down to whether you prefer the Hook's romantic arc or Nook's parenthood arc (though both arcs have a little bit of both, Hook had plenty of parental moments between Baelfire and Henry and familial ones with David and Liam II and Nook seeems to have a little something-something going on with Tiana).

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      They are the same person biologically, but because the timelines split, their experineces split. Whereas Hook gets over Milah because of Emma (trading one woman for another), WHook gets over Milah because he has to take care of Alice (trading romantic love for paternal love). So they aren't complete opposites, but they are different because of the different paths their lives went.

      Okay I tried to let this go but I couldn't.

      "Trading one woman for another"? Do you have any idea how blatantly misogynistic that sounds? Women are not objects that can be traded.

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    • Aine1989 wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      They are the same person biologically, but because the timelines split, their experineces split. Whereas Hook gets over Milah because of Emma (trading one woman for another), WHook gets over Milah because he has to take care of Alice (trading romantic love for paternal love). So they aren't complete opposites, but they are different because of the different paths their lives went.
      Okay I tried to let this go but I couldn't.

      "Trading one woman for another"? Do you have any idea how blatantly misogynistic that sounds? Women are not objects that can be traded.

      It is a figure of speech. Like in show he even says something to that affect. Paraphrasing it: I never thought I'd get over Milah, but then I found you, Emma.

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    • Well in that case I'm sorry for the misinterpretation

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    • Aine1989 wrote:
      Well in that case I'm sorry for the misinterpretation

      That's okay.

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    • I like Nook a lot, but I feel like since he is only in for a season, he has not (and will not)have the same development that Hook had.

      He also has less chances to backslide and slip up, which is like good and bad. It's bad because I feel like it makes him a less complex character than Hook but then again it means the writers don't assassinate him with meaningless backslides and dumb plots

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    • I prefer Nook than the original Hook. I loved the Nook-Zelena adventure since the original Hook spend his entire time snapping at Zelena.

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    • Lady Rapunzel wrote:
      I prefer Nook than the original Hook. I loved the Nook-Zelena adventure since the original Hook spend his entire time snapping at Zelena.

      imho, it is a crime on behalf of the writers we had to wait this long for a wicked hook brotp.

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    • Aine1989 wrote:
      Lady Rapunzel wrote:
      I prefer Nook than the original Hook. I loved the Nook-Zelena adventure since the original Hook spend his entire time snapping at Zelena.
      imho, it is a crime on behalf of the writers we had to wait this long for a wicked hook brotp.

      Yeah, i really prefer this version of Hook because the original one was too stressed and in some occasions he only thinked about him and/or Emma. But everyone has the right to show their opinion :)  

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    • I think Nook comes off a bit more effective (not the right word) as he’s not perfect or on some road to redemption as he simply has a different focus (albeit him being less complex).

      Hook had his own series of Secrets and Lies every season with Emma. Part is also due to Nook being cursed. Hook wasn’t and he was always himself and there was less of a separation between him and Emma, whereas Nook and Alice are separated twice over.

      Nook also never came off as villainous to anyone we know. More bumbling and foolish. Plus, I think it appears more endearing when a parent focuses heavily on a child whereas Hook being a lovesick puppy dog is weird. Weirdly the WR versions come off as the abridged version that seem some degree better. A bit campy.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      I think Nook comes off a bit more effective (not the right word) as he’s not perfect or on some road to redemption as he simply has a different focus (albeit him being less complex).

      Hook had his own series of Secrets and Lies every season with Emma. Part is also due to Nook being cursed. Hook wasn’t and he was always himself and there was less of a separation between him and Emma, whereas Nook and Alice are separated twice over.

      Nook also never came off as villainous to anyone we know. More bumbling and foolish. Plus, I think it appears more endearing when a parent focuses heavily on a child whereas Hook being a lovesick puppy dog is weird. Weirdly the WR versions come off as the abridged version that seem some degree better. A bit campy.

      I wanted to focus on that part. Hook was not a "lovesick puppy". In love yes, but I think calling him a "lovesick puppy" is a bit... wrong (probably incorrect wording).

      I feel like some people have misinterpreted Hook's arc and thought it was all about romance when in reality, it was Baelfire and their bond,a nd the regret that he hurt him, that pushed Hook down the path of redemption. Not the idea of being with Emma.

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    • Aine1989 wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:
      I think Nook comes off a bit more effective (not the right word) as he’s not perfect or on some road to redemption as he simply has a different focus (albeit him being less complex).

      Hook had his own series of Secrets and Lies every season with Emma. Part is also due to Nook being cursed. Hook wasn’t and he was always himself and there was less of a separation between him and Emma, whereas Nook and Alice are separated twice over.

      Nook also never came off as villainous to anyone we know. More bumbling and foolish. Plus, I think it appears more endearing when a parent focuses heavily on a child whereas Hook being a lovesick puppy dog is weird. Weirdly the WR versions come off as the abridged version that seem some degree better. A bit campy.

      I wanted to focus on that part. Hook was not a "lovesick puppy". In love yes, but I think calling him a "lovesick puppy" is a bit... wrong (probably incorrect wording).

      I feel like some people have misinterpreted Hook's arc and thought it was all about romance when in reality, it was Baelfire and their bond,a nd the regret that he hurt him, that pushed Hook down the path of redemption. Not the idea of being with Emma.

      The show used those words to describe Hook more than once, so seems like the writers thought so.

      I would agree, though the show really makes it hard when they have Hook do weird things like put Emma on a pedastal (part of his character) and a lot of his “dark” actions hinge on Emma. (Fun Note: That time Hook said Emma defeated Cora, Pan and Zelena was so hilarious.)

      I think one might see those subtleties but then the show partial retcons or hits you over the head with other stuff. (Like In sure they called Hook “pirate” more than his real name in the show’s history.)

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    • Sure but it was Rumple calling Hook a lovesick puppy. Rumple was the villain of the show, therefore you were not meant to agree with what he said.

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    • Lady Rapunzel wrote:
      I prefer Nook than the original Hook. I loved the Nook-Zelena adventure since the original Hook spend his entire time snapping at Zelena.

      You mean the woman who tried to kill him like 3 times?

      How could he?!

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    • 8Rob wrote:
      Lady Rapunzel wrote:
      I prefer Nook than the original Hook. I loved the Nook-Zelena adventure since the original Hook spend his entire time snapping at Zelena.
      You mean the woman who tried to kill him like 3 times?

      How could he?!

      And who raped his friend.

      Also 99% of Hook and Zelena's screentime together was when she was either still a villain or a very new hero (5x23) and she was cursing or threatening him. So..... yeah. I don't think they had a single conversation in s6.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • So I was talking about this with a friend of mine and she summed up the whole thing that I couldn't put my finger on in about two sentences: "WHook is OGHook with a far less fleshed out redemption arc. They are fundamentally the same character."

      Which kind of makes sense, because why would the writers waste time on a redemption arc that they spent five seasons working on prior to season 7? They wouldn't need to show the audience the same story twice.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I’m really glad that Nook has gave up his vengeance and is allied with Rumple. Heck they’re friends in HH. Because if I had to hear the phrase “bloody crocodile” one more time…🙄I was sick to the death of that storyline.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I agree with quite a few people who said while in the ship OG Hook seemed to mainly focus on that, he seemed to loose his individuality to me personally and i just , i kinda wish he had been a villain a little longer. I love Nook like more than original Hook now, i don't know if its cos its fresh, there is no romance and though yes he is very much about his daughter (which is adorable btw) he also has his own things going on. He was abused by Gothel yet that revenge did not matter at the time, it was more a case of ok i have to man up and be a dad and Rogers, he is hard working, kind, funny, stressed out. I dunno this season has personally been more relatable. 

      Don't get me wrong i love both versions i was just very happy to see a fresh version of Hook, one with a clean slate, no romance, ( though if Captain frog can happen ill be happy lol him and Tiana are cute ) I kinda wish that maybe they had left him old and chubby for a while just to show that he could find happiness like that, he could make friends that way, he did not need to be this handsome version of himself to find closure and happiness. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Nomishep wrote:
      I agree with quite a few people who said while in the ship OG Hook seemed to mainly focus on that, he seemed to loose his individuality to me personally and i just , i kinda wish he had been a villain a little longer. I love Nook like more than original Hook now, i don't know if its cos its fresh, there is no romance and though yes he is very much about his daughter (which is adorable btw) he also has his own things going on. He was abused by Gothel yet that revenge did not matter at the time, it was more a case of ok i have to man up and be a dad and Rogers, he is hard working, kind, funny, stressed out. I dunno this season has personally been more relatable. 

      Don't get me wrong i love both versions i was just very happy to see a fresh version of Hook, one with a clean slate, no romance, ( though if Captain frog can happen ill be happy lol him and Tiana are cute ) I kinda wish that maybe they had left him old and chubby for a while just to show that he could find happiness like that, he could make friends that way, he did not need to be this handsome version of himself to find closure and happiness. 

      I totally agree. Granted, besides Gothel, there isn't a death sentence literally written over Alice or anyone like Emma in season six. But Nook seems a bit more upbeat nonetheless.

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    • It's strange seeing people who hated OG Killian love WHook.

      Almost like their only issue with him was that he was in the way of their ship.....

      (this isn't directed at anyone here, btw, it's the BAs on Tumblr)

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    • Emillian Swanones wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      Completely disagree. Hook and Nook are the exact same guy just in different situations.

      I made a post about it on my Tumblr here:

      http://newyearsswifts.tumblr.com/post/169575118399/original-hookwish-hook-similiarities

      They have the same personalities and traits, said traits just manifested differently because they were in different situations.

      I would like to point out that when Hook threatened Rumple, Rumple was working with the Black Fairy to destroy them all. Heroes threaten the villains, it's kinda the MO. 

      Snow threatened Regina. Charming threatened Arthur. Emma threatened Pan. Are they all evil sociopaths?

      My thoughts exactly

      And mine. Out of all the characters on this show, Hook's redemption arc is the one that was done the best, and Zelena is a close second. Everything I am about to say about Hook is also true about her.

      Unlike certain other villains (i.e. Regina and Gold), Hook doesn't just say he's sorry for what he's done or that he loves Emma and Henry -- he proves it in his actions. Regina is the character who has never shown any real remorse or regret for her actions, and Gold is the one who never had any real redemptive journey. Rather than saying he wanted to change like Regina and Gold have, Hook just jumped in and aided the heroes, and since that point only had one real relapse - when he was the Dark One - and that wasn't his fault; I don't think any Dark One should be held accountable for their actions after they cease to be the Dark One.

      For example, nobody asked Hook to save David's life in "Good Form"; he got nothing from that. He and David were not close then, and if he were doing it just to win Emma's heart, he could have done it a lot more publicly. The way he did it, there was no guarantee Emma would find out about it. The only explanation is that he just didn't want Emma to lose her father.

      And the biggest argument, I think, for Hook's being truly redeemed and regretful of his past actions is the fact that he doesn't believe he's fully reddeemed; he still thinks he has much to atone for. His apology to Belle in season six is all the proof I need that he's fully redeemed. Belle said she forgave him, and Emma said it in another episode, and neither one's forgiveness was enough for him. The fact that Hook can't seem to forgive himself proves that he's a true hero.

      And even though I don't think I need any more reasons to justify my opinion that Hook is a good man and a true hero is that the few times Hook has actually lied to Emma or deceived her -- except for his time as the Dark One -- it has been out of shame for what Emma would think of him. and because he doesn't think he is worthy of her because of the things he's done. He's harder on himself than anyone. In fact, it surprises and shocks me that his goodness and heroism is even being debated; to me, it has been a truism since the end of season two.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Personally, I was disappointed that Hook never did manage to kill Gold. I thought the worst part about Cora's death was that in killing her Snow saved Gold's life and robbed Hook his chance at vengeance. (Regina and Cora killed Snow's parents, so they've never really had my sympathies.)

      After everything Gold did to him, why shouldn't Hook want him dead? I wouldn't let that go either. In fact, when Hook attacked Gold in "The Song in Your Heart," I was rooting for him. Everything Hook has done to Gold in the entirety of the show I've been with him all the way. It's not like Gold is some innocent victim; he's hurt Hook in so many unimaginable ways. Hook has more than enough reasons to want  him dead.

      And I don't understand how the fact that both Hooks redeemed themselves out of love for another person make their redemptive arc any less real -- particularly since Hook's redemption has never been just about Emma. It began in "The Evil Queen" after he realized that a life seeking revenge was empty and continued later about Neal. It only started to become about Emma about halfway through the Neverland arc. And by his and Emma's depature from the show, it had also become about Henry. It wasn't just about a woman; it was about his family.

      Not to mention, Hook remembers the people he killed. Gold didn't recall that he turned a butcher into a pig, and Regina didn't recall that she killed Marian. I mean, Regina killed her supposed true love's wife and felt nothing; I believe her response was that maybe she deserved it. Hook killed his true love's grandfather whom she never met and was torn apart with guilt.

      (Side note: to me, Hook has always been OUaT's male version of Mara Jade from Star Wars. While he did many horrible things, I don't believe in his past he was any worse than she was. Yet I have never heard of her receiving this much hate.) 

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    • Aine1989 wrote:
      It's strange seeing people who hated OG Killian love WHook.

      Almost like their only issue with him was that he was in the way of their ship.....

      If you feel that shipping has anything to do with people (dis)liking Hook's charcter, that's just further proof that, weren't for shipping, Hook himself would have no purpose in the show after the Neverland arc aka 3A.

      I, for one, am extremely glad that S7 is a thing because it gave me a chance to appreciate Colin's work and notice the good of an actor that he actually is. While OG Hook was my least favorite character and meant nothing to me, I could only pay attention to Colin now that he is Nook and acutally does something worth watching (that's my opinion,don't mean to offend OG Hook's fans).

      That all said, regardless of me being a Swanfire shipper, I believe that CS became more important than Hook himself or Emma herself, which made both Hook and Emma less interesting to me as the show progressed. With Nook, Colin was given a fresh opportunity to shine, and my, did he shine!

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Sorry I phrased that badly. I didn't mean in terms of whether Hook was interesting or not, it;s the fact that people who repeatedly called Hook an evil sociopathic rapist and compared him to Trump (no I am not making that up) suddenly love Nook despite the fact they are fundamentally the same character is rather telling.

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    • MBrody wrote:

      After everything Gold did to him, why shouldn't Hook want him dead? I wouldn't let that go either. In fact, when Hook attacked Gold in "The Song in Your Heart," I was rooting for him. Everything Hook has done to Gold in the entirety of the show I've been with him all the way. It's not like Gold is some innocent victim; he's hurt Hook in so many unimaginable ways. Hook has more than enough reasons to want  him dead.

      Not to mention that in 6x20, Gold was an active threat to Killian and those he cared about. If someone sided with a serial killer and aided them in an attempt to kill or kidnap your loved ones, you would have every right to go after them.

      Killian was the hero, Rumple was the villain. Heroes go after villains. Fairytale 101.

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    • FrancisPaul wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      It's strange seeing people who hated OG Killian love WHook.

      Almost like their only issue with him was that he was in the way of their ship.....

      If you feel that shipping has anything to do with people (dis)liking Hook's charcter, that's just further proof that, weren't for shipping, Hook himself would have no purpose in the show after the Neverland arc aka 3A.

      I, for one, am extremely glad that S7 is a thing because it gave me a chance to appreciate Colin's work and notice the good of an actor that he actually is. While OG Hook was my least favorite character and meant nothing to me, I could only pay attention to Colin now that he is Nook and acutally does something worth watching (that's my opinion,don't mean to offend OG Hook's fans).

      That all said, regardless of me being a Swanfire shipper, I believe that CS became more important than Hook himself or Emma herself, which made both Hook and Emma less interesting to me as the show progressed. With Nook, Colin was given a fresh opportunity to shine, and my, did he shine!

      I thought he was better before. Rogers is a fine character, but I see him as nothing more than a pale imitation of the original. He's still my favorite, but that's not saying much since the characters this season are relatively dull. And sure, without his relationship with Emma Hook's character would probably serve no purpose after season three. But what is wrong with that? If it weren't for their friendship with Harry, Ron and Hermione would have served no purpose in Harry Potter, yet they're still considered important characters by most people. How is this any different?

      Lastly, I simply disagree with that final paragraph, since Emma and Hook's character arcs have always been about than just each other. Hook's character might not have mattered had he not ended up with Emma, but after he did his character did matter. If Emma had died, Hook was still Henry's stepfather. In my opinion, Hook had been a better father to Henry than any of his other father figures (and this includes his birth father).

      (And I realize that was your opinion, and I respect that. I just wanted to share my viewpoint. Hook and Emma are tied as my favorite character, and I felt a desire to defend them.) 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Aine1989 wrote:
      MBrody wrote:

      After everything Gold did to him, why shouldn't Hook want him dead? I wouldn't let that go either. In fact, when Hook attacked Gold in "The Song in Your Heart," I was rooting for him. Everything Hook has done to Gold in the entirety of the show I've been with him all the way. It's not like Gold is some innocent victim; he's hurt Hook in so many unimaginable ways. Hook has more than enough reasons to want  him dead.

      Not to mention that in 6x20, Gold was an active threat to Killian and those he cared about. If someone sided with a serial killer and aided them in an attempt to kill or kidnap your loved ones, you would have every right to go after them.

      Killian was the hero, Rumple was the villain. Heroes go after villains. Fairytale 101.

      Exactly.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Aine1989 wrote:
      MBrody wrote:

      After everything Gold did to him, why shouldn't Hook want him dead? I wouldn't let that go either. In fact, when Hook attacked Gold in "The Song in Your Heart," I was rooting for him. Everything Hook has done to Gold in the entirety of the show I've been with him all the way. It's not like Gold is some innocent victim; he's hurt Hook in so many unimaginable ways. Hook has more than enough reasons to want  him dead.

      Not to mention that in 6x20, Gold was an active threat to Killian and those he cared about. If someone sided with a serial killer and aided them in an attempt to kill or kidnap your loved ones, you would have every right to go after them.

      Killian was the hero, Rumple was the villain. Heroes go after villains. Fairytale 101.

      Not to mention that in 5A Hook tried to murder Emma's entire family and treated her horribly and everyone simply forgot that in a matter of seconds and traveled to the UW.

      Before anyone says "well, that was the Darkness in Hook", let's remember that the 620 situation you mention is "the Darkness in Gold" as well. Given Gold has been an addict for centuries, it's even more "forgivable" (if it were to forgive either of them) than Hook being the Dark One for a couple of days and going all bloodthirsty just when he found out that he was the Dark One.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • FrancisPaul wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      MBrody wrote:

      After everything Gold did to him, why shouldn't Hook want him dead? I wouldn't let that go either. In fact, when Hook attacked Gold in "The Song in Your Heart," I was rooting for him. Everything Hook has done to Gold in the entirety of the show I've been with him all the way. It's not like Gold is some innocent victim; he's hurt Hook in so many unimaginable ways. Hook has more than enough reasons to want  him dead.

      Not to mention that in 6x20, Gold was an active threat to Killian and those he cared about. If someone sided with a serial killer and aided them in an attempt to kill or kidnap your loved ones, you would have every right to go after them.

      Killian was the hero, Rumple was the villain. Heroes go after villains. Fairytale 101.

      Not to mention that in 5A Hook tried to murder Emma's entire family and treated her horribly and everyone simply forgot that in a matter of seconds and traveled to the UW.

      Before anyone says "well, that was the Darkness in Hook", let's remember that the 620 situation you mention is "the Darkness in Gold" as well. Given Gold has been an addict for centuries, it's even more "forgivable" (if it were to forgive either of them) than Hook being the Dark One for a couple of days and going all bloodthirsty just when he found out that he was the Dark One.

      The difference is Hook actually changed and stopped himself. Rumple has not and had shown any indication of changing.

      And by 6x20, Rumple had taken the darkness back, unambiguous proof he had not changed.

      And as I said before, Rumple was a threat at that point. In 5x11, Emma said she would kill Hook, when he was the threat. By your logic, she threatened to kill him, so she is evil.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • MBrody wrote:
      FrancisPaul wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      It's strange seeing people who hated OG Killian love WHook.

      Almost like their only issue with him was that he was in the way of their ship.....

      If you feel that shipping has anything to do with people (dis)liking Hook's charcter, that's just further proof that, weren't for shipping, Hook himself would have no purpose in the show after the Neverland arc aka 3A.

      I, for one, am extremely glad that S7 is a thing because it gave me a chance to appreciate Colin's work and notice the good of an actor that he actually is. While OG Hook was my least favorite character and meant nothing to me, I could only pay attention to Colin now that he is Nook and acutally does something worth watching (that's my opinion,don't mean to offend OG Hook's fans).

      That all said, regardless of me being a Swanfire shipper, I believe that CS became more important than Hook himself or Emma herself, which made both Hook and Emma less interesting to me as the show progressed. With Nook, Colin was given a fresh opportunity to shine, and my, did he shine!

      I thought he was better before. Rogers is a fine character, but I see him as nothing more than a pale imitation of the original. He's still my favorite, but that's not saying much since the characters this season are relatively dull. And sure, without his relationship with Emma Hook's character would probably serve no purpose after season three. But what is wrong with that? If it weren't for their friendship with Harry, Ron and Hermione would have served no purpose in Harry Potter, yet they're still considered important characters by most people. How is this any different?

      I can see your point in most of the things you bring up. But I think Hook is waaaaaay less relevant than Ron or Hermione, for the simple fact that I don't see any substancial harm to the overall plot if Hook was not there. In fact, we can skip 90% of his scenes and the story will make just as much sense. Ron and Hermione, however, if they weren't there, someone would have to be to fill their roles. At least that's how I see. Not that Hook is trash, is horrible, is Satan or anything that harsh, I just feel that he was not needed and - sorry to say that (don't think I am labeling Hook fans as narrow-minded or blinded - I feel like the whole show would have been different if Colin portrayed Bae and MRJ portrayed Hook

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    • Okay, let's test your theory. If you remove Hook from 3b then:

      -He does not get to Emma.

      -Emma does not remember her family

      -Emma does not return to Storybrooke

      -Henry gets killed by flying monkeys

      -Emma does not get Snowing's meeting back on track

      -Emma doesn't get her magic back (yes she did 90% of the work but Hook gave her the push in the right direction she needed).

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    • Aine1989 wrote:
      Okay, let's test your theory. If you remove Hook from 3b then:

      -He does not get to Emma.

      -Emma does not remember her family

      -Emma does not return to Storybrooke

      -Henry gets killed by flying monkeys

      -Emma does not get Snowing's meeting back on track

      -Emma doesn't get her magic back (yes she did 90% of the work but Hook gave her the push in the right direction she needed).

      I think they mean after Emma got her memories back and went back to SB to save the day. Like say someone else came and did that (it really doesn't matter who), so let's say Red. If Red convinced Emma to take the memory potion, then everything still works the same.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Aine1989 wrote: Okay, let's test your theory. If you remove Hook from 3b then:

      -He does not get to Emma.

      -Emma does not remember her family

      -Emma does not return to Storybrooke

      -Henry gets killed by flying monkeys

      -Emma does not get Snowing's meeting back on track

      -Emma doesn't get her magic back (yes she did 90% of the work but Hook gave her the push in the right direction she needed).

      This just proves that Hook’s entire story beginning with 3B centered around Emma, which is what made him so bland.

      Also, wasn’t Hook the reason she lost her magic?

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      Okay, let's test your theory. If you remove Hook from 3b then:

      -He does not get to Emma.

      -Emma does not remember her family

      -Emma does not return to Storybrooke

      -Henry gets killed by flying monkeys

      -Emma does not get Snowing's meeting back on track

      -Emma doesn't get her magic back (yes she did 90% of the work but Hook gave her the push in the right direction she needed).

      I think they mean after Emma got her memories back and went back to SB to save the day. Like say someone else came and did that (it really doesn't matter who), so let's say Red. If Red convinced Emma to take the memory potion, then everything still works the same.

      In s4 Hook:

      Got Rumple to help him and Elsa find Anna (4x03)

      Was the one who found out Gold's plan (4x16)

      Pushed Emma to forgive her parents (4x20)

      Enabled Emma and Henry to escape dark!Snowing (4x22)

      In s5 Hook:

      Got Emma's mind off the Darkness (5x04)

      Saved Snow from being force choked by Arthur (via Merlin) (5x08)

      Got Meg out of Hade's liar (5x14)

      Stopped Cruella and took her gun (5x19)

      Got the pages to Emma which enabled Zelena to defeat Hades (5x21)

      In s6 Hook:

      Helped Belle hide from Rumple (6x02)

      Saved Belle from Jekyll (6x04)

      Saved Emma, Regina and Henry from the Queen (6x08)

      Got Emma's hand to stop shaking (6x07)

      Stopped David from killing George (6x12)

      Got the half of the wand to Emma (6x17)

      There may be more but I'm tired.  

      So yes, Hook does contribute to the plot, maybe not every single episode, but there are developments that would not have happened without him. Not to mention his role in Emma's development.

      Also, how would Red get to Emma? Unlike Hook, she does not have a ship that can cross realms, Hook does.

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    • Aine1989 wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      Okay, let's test your theory. If you remove Hook from 3b then:

      -He does not get to Emma.

      -Emma does not remember her family

      -Emma does not return to Storybrooke

      -Henry gets killed by flying monkeys

      -Emma does not get Snowing's meeting back on track

      -Emma doesn't get her magic back (yes she did 90% of the work but Hook gave her the push in the right direction she needed).

      I think they mean after Emma got her memories back and went back to SB to save the day. Like say someone else came and did that (it really doesn't matter who), so let's say Red. If Red convinced Emma to take the memory potion, then everything still works the same.
      In s4 Hook:

      Got Rumple to help him and Elsa find Anna (4x03)

      Was the one who found out Gold's plan (4x16)

      Pushed Emma to forgive her parents (4x20)

      Enabled Emma and Henry to escape dark!Snowing (4x22)

      In s5 Hook:

      Got Emma's mind off the Darkness (5x04)

      Saved Snow from being force choked by Arthur (via Merlin) (5x08)

      Got Meg out of Hade's liar (5x14)

      Stopped Cruella and took her gun (5x19)

      Got the pages to Emma which enabled Zelena to defeat Hades (5x21)

      In s6 Hook:

      Helped Belle hide from Rumple (6x02)

      Saved Belle from Jekyll (6x04)

      Saved Emma, Regina and Henry from the Queen (6x08)

      Got Emma's hand to stop shaking (6x07)

      Stopped David from killing George (6x12)

      Got the half of the wand to Emma (6x17)

      There may be more but I'm tired.  

      So yes, Hook does contribute to the plot, maybe not every single episode, but there are developments that would not have happened without him. Not to mention his role in Emma's development.

      Also, how would Red get to Emma? Unlike Hook, she does not have a ship that can cross realms, Hook does.

      I'm not saying Hook doesn't do anything, just that he doesn't do much (or much more than other characters) in advancing the plot. Red was just an example, it could be any character, and it could be any means (magic beans, portal door, silver shoes, etc.), or they could even simply come over with the Dark Curse and just have a memory potion, so they remembered what happened.

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    • By this logic, no-one is important in this show.

      You could just as easily replace the Nevengers with the Dwarves in 3a, so they are unimportant. You could have Emma defeat Zelena in 3b, so Regina is unimportant to the plot. You could replace Elsa with Henry in 4x08 (i think), so Elsa is unimportant. You could replace baby Neal with baby Phillip and Snowing with Philrora in 3b.  

      Your logic seems to be "Character A could also do what Character B did, so Character B is not important to the plot".

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    • I know I usually hit Hook hard (though I think all the characters are flawed), but I mostly agree with Aine. If we follow down this rabbit hole, no character is really important.

      I honestly thing besides shipping which I can say ruins the fun of the show online more than the quality of writing.

      Hook is a pretty good character. I don’t agree that his redemption arc was the best, but due to what I hold as a great redemption arc. Hook had less to redeem and pretty lengthy time to do so. Nook was even less to redeem and much, much shorter time to do so. (If you note, fans seem to be accepting of those 1 episode redeemed villains.)

      Plus, (sorry writers) I think the longer a character is written, the worse they get. Look at Snow and David season 1. Lovely. Eventually they became babysnatchers, Snow started projecting blame, David became some pirate hater (though I would say that 5 and 6 did help his character a lot).

      To be equal opportunity, look at how even with the props toward Regina, they drag her through the mud in a different way. Regina apparently had some secret crush on Rumple. Regina who always loved the good-hearted Daniel, Graham (to some degree), and Robin is in some weird, maybe unhealthy relationship with evil Facilier.

      If the show went in for two more seasons, I guarantee that Nook would start having “Secrets and Lies” with Alice, and affair with Tiana and all what not because something has to happen. I’m exaggerating, of course.

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    • Nook's redemption arc was a lot less fleshed out and he pretty much jumped straight from villain to hero, but I think it was okay that they didn't give him a long redemption because they didn't need to repeat what they spent 4 seasons showing. By seeing Hook's redemption arc, we know the kind of person Nook is, so the writers don't need to retread old ground 

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      Plus, (sorry writers) I think the longer a character is written, the worse they get. Look at Snow and David season 1. Lovely. Eventually they became babysnatchers, Snow started projecting blame, David became some pirate hater (though I would say that 5 and 6 did help his character a lot).

      I am 100% onboard with this. I think the problem is all the characters were repeating storylines; Emma and her walls/trust issues, Killian and his past biting him on his pretty little ass, Regina's struggle to have a happy ending, Rumple and Belle and their "we are never getting back together, like ever". And so it gets tedious and shows the characters haven't learned their lessons.

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    • Aine1989 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      Plus, (sorry writers) I think the longer a character is written, the worse they get. Look at Snow and David season 1. Lovely. Eventually they became babysnatchers, Snow started projecting blame, David became some pirate hater (though I would say that 5 and 6 did help his character a lot).

      I am 100% onboard with this. I think the problem is all the characters were repeating storylines; Emma and her walls/trust issues, Killian and his past biting him on his pretty little ass, Regina's struggle to have a happy ending, Rumple and Belle and their "we are never getting back together, like ever". And so it gets tedious and shows the characters haven't learned their lessons.

      I agree that some characters did get stuck in loops, which is more that the writers didn't know how to advance their personal arcs (by making tough calls like killing them off) than anything else. Like Belle dying allowed Rumple to advance with actually getting rid of the Darkness (which was a concept brought up in 5A), but then never explored.

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    • Eskaver
      Eskaver removed this reply because:
      Looks terrible
      22:23, March 31, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      Plus, (sorry writers) I think the longer a character is written, the worse they get. Look at Snow and David season 1. Lovely. Eventually they became babysnatchers, Snow started projecting blame, David became some pirate hater (though I would say that 5 and 6 did help his character a lot).

      I am 100% onboard with this. I think the problem is all the characters were repeating storylines; Emma and her walls/trust issues, Killian and his past biting him on his pretty little ass, Regina's struggle to have a happy ending, Rumple and Belle and their "we are never getting back together, like ever". And so it gets tedious and shows the characters haven't learned their lessons.
      I agree that some characters did get stuck in loops, which is more that the writers didn't know how to advance their personal arcs (by making tough calls like killing them off) than anything else. Like Belle dying allowed Rumple to advance with actually getting rid of the Darkness (which was a concept brought up in 5A), but then never explored.

      I think the only one that wasn't as frustrating was Rumple and Belle's one, because it mimics abusive relationships in real life where an abuse victim may go back before leaving completely.

      However, they then backtracked it all in 6b.

      I have a BTS theory on the Rumple/Darkness thing: they did not expect Bobby to stay on for seaosn 7 (or to even get a season 7) and had a plan for him to die heroically in 6b, so the Guardian thing was whipped out of their asses, pardon my French.

      I mean, obviously it's all speculation, but it could be the reason.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I can't believe what I read here. I'll never prefer such a vile character as Nook over Killian. Killian is so much better than him! He has five seasons of redemption and it's so perfect! Unlike Nook. God, he did NOTHING to redeem himself. He's only suffers due to the loss daughter, bur he does nothing. And redemption in 5 minutes, really? However, he planned to kill Killian and rape Emma, very cool. He didn't even think about the daughter. And he's definitely not a smart character, unlike Killian.

      All comments in support of Nook come from people who hate Killian, everything is clear. Just don't forget that Nook is one f the reasons why this show was cancelled, bc peaple hate him and they will forget about him when it's all over. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Okay......

      Thing is, I think it does kind of work that Nook's redemption arc was short handed. Because we saw over the course of 5 seasons how Killian has redeemed himself, so we don't need to see it again. Telling the same story twice would just be boring.

      I mean at their core, they are the same person.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Aine1989 wrote: Okay......

      Thing is, I think it does kind of work that Nook's redemption arc was short handed. Because we saw over the course of 5 seasons how Killian has redeemed himself, so we don't need to see it again. Telling the same story twice would just be boring.

      I mean at their core, they are the same person.

      Agreed. Plus Hook was never one who really required as much to redeem as the mass murdering tyrants that roam about the show. He was a bully and a typicalpirate but he was more opportunistic than deranged.

      And...I’m pretty sure “Nook” was not the reason the show was cancelled. Not even within the top 100 reasons. I think the fan goggles need to be removed because both Hooks are the same person and it’s like there’s some cognitive dissonance. Hook was pretty okay when interacting with Ursula until his opportunistic streak broke through. Actin. As though that Hook is somehow “better” than Nook is pretty stretchy.

      In addition, “Nook was trying to kill Hook and rape Emma and wasn’t thinking about Alice”.....is completely wrong and ignores the end of the episode. Did the episode cut off early? Nook clearly didn’t kill Hook and was under the assumption that if he could share a TLK with Emma that he could be free to live with Alice.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Matheus1234zx wrote:
      In my opinion, what killed the show after season 4 was CS (IN MY OWN OPINION) and it's not because Emma didn't stayed with someone else. It's because it was badly done. It's not Colin's fault. He is a wonderful actor and I used to love Hook until season 3.... But after that.... he and his actions, his "redemption arc" that, in my opinion didn't happen as he, on the day of his marriage, still wanted revenge against Gold... For me, they aren't the same because, Nook is truly a hero, who regrets of his past. Who deserves a happy ending (hopefully with Tiana). What made he change from the sick sexist person that he was once, was his daughter Alice.... So, for me, they are completely opposite characters

      WOOOOOW.... really?

      1) He's redemption arc it's much better than just putting a baby in his arms and suddenly, omg! I'm now a hero

      2) Of course he wanted revenga against Gold, did you miss the part when he was working with the Black Fairy who was trying to kill Emma all the time and also wanted to get rid of all of them? 

      3) When has show Nook regret of his past? I remember very well how he wanted to kill Original Hook on 7x02 to 'take his place' and this means, killing Emma's husband, the step-father of her son and father of her daughter. He spent years looking for Emma to make his plan works, if he hurted her in the process he didn't care, he just wanted to get what she needed from her. COME ON!

      4) You really need to rewatch the show if you think Original Hook doesn't regrets of his past

      5) Now, seriously with a happy ending with Tiana? Please don't change Tiana's canon true love, a black man for a white man please 

      6) One episode and just changing because he has a daughter it's not a good redeption arc you know right? Also, Original Hook changed because he wanted to help Henry, to honor Bae's memory, yes he fell in love with Emma, but what make him come back was Bae. Henry may not be his biological son, and still he loves him and cares about him.

      7) Also, if 'you love Nook so much because he changed for her daughter' (and he didn't change so much if when he wasn't with her he just became a drunk and tried to kill someone innocent), I have news for you, Original Hook has a daughter too!! I'm sure you will love him as much when you watch him with her on the finale episode

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • JustAk wrote:

      Matheus1234zx wrote:
      In my opinion, what killed the show after season 4 was CS (IN MY OWN OPINION) and it's not because Emma didn't stayed with someone else. It's because it was badly done. It's not Colin's fault. He is a wonderful actor and I used to love Hook until season 3.... But after that.... he and his actions, his "redemption arc" that, in my opinion didn't happen as he, on the day of his marriage, still wanted revenge against Gold... For me, they aren't the same because, Nook is truly a hero, who regrets of his past. Who deserves a happy ending (hopefully with Tiana). What made he change from the sick sexist person that he was once, was his daughter Alice.... So, for me, they are completely opposite characters

      WOOOOOW.... really?

      Please refrain from making comments like "WOOOW... really?", it comes across as disrespectful and does not belong here. There are better ways to show that you disagree with people.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Aine1989 wrote:
      Okay......

      Thing is, I think it does kind of work that Nook's redemption arc was short handed. Because we saw over the course of 5 seasons how Killian has redeemed himself, so we don't need to see it again. Telling the same story twice would just be boring.

      I mean at their core, they are the same person.

      No, they're not the same person. Nook was created by the wish. A&E at the time dreamed of an additional six seasons, so they could make a better character development. But they did it in such a way that many of us started to hate this character.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote: Okay......

      Thing is, I think it does kind of work that Nook's redemption arc was short handed. Because we saw over the course of 5 seasons how Killian has redeemed himself, so we don't need to see it again. Telling the same story twice would just be boring.

      I mean at their core, they are the same person.

      Agreed. Plus Hook was never one who really required as much to redeem as the mass murdering tyrants that roam about the show. He was a bully and a typicalpirate but he was more opportunistic than deranged.

      And...I’m pretty sure “Nook” was not the reason the show was cancelled. Not even within the top 100 reasons. I think the fan goggles need to be removed because both Hooks are the same person and it’s like there’s some cognitive dissonance. Hook was pretty okay when interacting with Ursula until his opportunistic streak broke through. Actin. As though that Hook is somehow “better” than Nook is pretty stretchy.

      In addition, “Nook was trying to kill Hook and rape Emma and wasn’t thinking about Alice”.....is completely wrong and ignores the end of the episode. Did the episode cut off early? Nook clearly didn’t kill Hook and was under the assumption that if he could share a TLK with Emma that he could be free to live with Alice.

      He was trying to get to Storybrooke with Emma! He tried to kill Killian! He definitely wasn't thinking about his daughter at this moment. You know what? He only remembered her when Emma said she was pregnant.

      And yes, he's one of the reasons for the cancellation.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Alena765 wrote:
      I can't believe what I read here. I'll never prefer such a vile character as Nook over Killian. Killian is so much better than him! He has five seasons of redemption and it's so perfect! Unlike Nook. God, he did NOTHING to redeem himself. He's only suffers due to the loss daughter, bur he does nothing. And redemption in 5 minutes, really? However, he planned to kill Killian and rape Emma, very cool. He didn't even think about the daughter. And he's definitely not a smart character, unlike Killian.

      All comments in support of Nook come from people who hate Killian, everything is clear. Just don't forget that Nook is one f the reasons why this show was cancelled, bc peaple hate him and they will forget about him when it's all over. 

      Killian and WishKillian are literally the same person in different versions of the same EF. People who hate one and love the other (in either direction), kind of don't make sense. Basically, it means you don't actually love or hate the character as an individual, you love or hate the idea of Emma's love interest.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Alena765 wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote: Okay......

      Thing is, I think it does kind of work that Nook's redemption arc was short handed. Because we saw over the course of 5 seasons how Killian has redeemed himself, so we don't need to see it again. Telling the same story twice would just be boring.

      I mean at their core, they are the same person.

      Agreed. Plus Hook was never one who really required as much to redeem as the mass murdering tyrants that roam about the show. He was a bully and a typicalpirate but he was more opportunistic than deranged.

      And...I’m pretty sure “Nook” was not the reason the show was cancelled. Not even within the top 100 reasons. I think the fan goggles need to be removed because both Hooks are the same person and it’s like there’s some cognitive dissonance. Hook was pretty okay when interacting with Ursula until his opportunistic streak broke through. Actin. As though that Hook is somehow “better” than Nook is pretty stretchy.

      In addition, “Nook was trying to kill Hook and rape Emma and wasn’t thinking about Alice”.....is completely wrong and ignores the end of the episode. Did the episode cut off early? Nook clearly didn’t kill Hook and was under the assumption that if he could share a TLK with Emma that he could be free to live with Alice.

      He was trying to get to Storybrooke with Emma! He tried to kill Killian! He definitely wasn't thinking about his daughter at this moment. You know what? He only remembered her when Emma said she was pregnant.

      Have you watched the episode? Wish Hook says, "A child. That's why I'm doing all this in this first place. I'm trying to find my daughter." and "A vengeful witch trapped her in a prison. Every day, I'd sneak in to play chess with her. But I was discovered and punished. My heart was poisoned, cursed. So I can never save her. I knew that true love was the cure. So I roamed the realms seeking it, but it was futile. Then, I thought, maybe Emma." So he was definitely thinking of his daughter.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      I can't believe what I read here. I'll never prefer such a vile character as Nook over Killian. Killian is so much better than him! He has five seasons of redemption and it's so perfect! Unlike Nook. God, he did NOTHING to redeem himself. He's only suffers due to the loss daughter, bur he does nothing. And redemption in 5 minutes, really? However, he planned to kill Killian and rape Emma, very cool. He didn't even think about the daughter. And he's definitely not a smart character, unlike Killian.

      All comments in support of Nook come from people who hate Killian, everything is clear. Just don't forget that Nook is one f the reasons why this show was cancelled, bc peaple hate him and they will forget about him when it's all over. 

      Killian and WishKillian are literally the same person in different versions of the same EF. People who hate one and love the other (in either direction), kind of don't make sense. Basically, it means you don't actually love or hate the character as an individual, you love or hate the idea of Emma's love interest.

      Is it serious? Dude, you're wrong. They are completely different! They have a completely different past (and to be precise, WHook doesn't have a past at all because he was created by the wish in episode 6x10). If you believe everything they say on the show, I feel sorry for you because you clearly don't see the logic.

      Killian Jones is the only one and we love him. We don't see him as Emma's love interest. We hate WHook because he's an insult to his character. Killian Jones is not such an idiot and Killian Jones will never do that. If you hate Killian and CS, well, that's your problem.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Nightlily wrote:

      Alena765 wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote: Okay......

      Thing is, I think it does kind of work that Nook's redemption arc was short handed. Because we saw over the course of 5 seasons how Killian has redeemed himself, so we don't need to see it again. Telling the same story twice would just be boring.

      I mean at their core, they are the same person.

      Agreed. Plus Hook was never one who really required as much to redeem as the mass murdering tyrants that roam about the show. He was a bully and a typicalpirate but he was more opportunistic than deranged.

      And...I’m pretty sure “Nook” was not the reason the show was cancelled. Not even within the top 100 reasons. I think the fan goggles need to be removed because both Hooks are the same person and it’s like there’s some cognitive dissonance. Hook was pretty okay when interacting with Ursula until his opportunistic streak broke through. Actin. As though that Hook is somehow “better” than Nook is pretty stretchy.

      In addition, “Nook was trying to kill Hook and rape Emma and wasn’t thinking about Alice”.....is completely wrong and ignores the end of the episode. Did the episode cut off early? Nook clearly didn’t kill Hook and was under the assumption that if he could share a TLK with Emma that he could be free to live with Alice.

      He was trying to get to Storybrooke with Emma! He tried to kill Killian! He definitely wasn't thinking about his daughter at this moment. You know what? He only remembered her when Emma said she was pregnant.
      Have you watched the episode? Wish Hook says, "A child. That's why I'm doing all this in this first place. I'm trying to find my daughter." and "A vengeful witch trapped her in a prison. Every day, I'd sneak in to play chess with her. But I was discovered and punished. My heart was poisoned, cursed. So I can never save her. I knew that true love was the cure. So I roamed the realms seeking it, but it was futile. Then, I thought, maybe Emma." So he was definitely thinking of his daughter.

      And that is why he tried "to take the place of Killian" at the same time killing him and to go to Storybrooke to Emma where his daughter is definitely not? Don't see the logic. He didn't think about her at all.  

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Alena765 wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      I can't believe what I read here. I'll never prefer such a vile character as Nook over Killian. Killian is so much better than him! He has five seasons of redemption and it's so perfect! Unlike Nook. God, he did NOTHING to redeem himself. He's only suffers due to the loss daughter, bur he does nothing. And redemption in 5 minutes, really? However, he planned to kill Killian and rape Emma, very cool. He didn't even think about the daughter. And he's definitely not a smart character, unlike Killian.

      All comments in support of Nook come from people who hate Killian, everything is clear. Just don't forget that Nook is one f the reasons why this show was cancelled, bc peaple hate him and they will forget about him when it's all over. 

      Killian and WishKillian are literally the same person in different versions of the same EF. People who hate one and love the other (in either direction), kind of don't make sense. Basically, it means you don't actually love or hate the character as an individual, you love or hate the idea of Emma's love interest.
      Is it serious? Dude, you're wrong. They are completely different! They have a completely different past (and to be precise, WHook doesn't have a past at all because he was created by the wish in episode 6x10). If you believe everything they say on the show, I feel sorry for you because you clearly don't see the logic.

      Killian Jones is the only one and we love him. We don't see him as Emma's love interest. We hate WHook because he's an insult to his character. Killian Jones is not such an idiot and Killian Jones will never do that. If you hate Killian and CS, well, that's your problem.

      The whole Wish Realm being created in 610 has been disproven in Season 7, where we see FBs to things that happened between the Wish characters and other realms (such as WHook and Gothel concieving Alice). It is you who is not using logic, because the show clearly shows us this fact.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Alena765 wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      I can't believe what I read here. I'll never prefer such a vile character as Nook over Killian. Killian is so much better than him! He has five seasons of redemption and it's so perfect! Unlike Nook. God, he did NOTHING to redeem himself. He's only suffers due to the loss daughter, bur he does nothing. And redemption in 5 minutes, really? However, he planned to kill Killian and rape Emma, very cool. He didn't even think about the daughter. And he's definitely not a smart character, unlike Killian.

      All comments in support of Nook come from people who hate Killian, everything is clear. Just don't forget that Nook is one f the reasons why this show was cancelled, bc peaple hate him and they will forget about him when it's all over. 

      Killian and WishKillian are literally the same person in different versions of the same EF. People who hate one and love the other (in either direction), kind of don't make sense. Basically, it means you don't actually love or hate the character as an individual, you love or hate the idea of Emma's love interest.

      Is it serious? Dude, you're wrong. They are completely different! They have a completely different past (and to be precise, WHook doesn't have a past at all because he was created by the wish in episode 6x10). If you believe everything they say on the show, I feel sorry for you because you clearly don't see the logic.

      Alena, this is a warning: That kind of comments ("I feel sorry for you because you clearly don't see the logic") will not be tolerated on this board. It is rude and shows a lack of respect for other people's opinions.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Alena765 wrote:

      Nightlily wrote:

      Alena765 wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote: Okay......

      Thing is, I think it does kind of work that Nook's redemption arc was short handed. Because we saw over the course of 5 seasons how Killian has redeemed himself, so we don't need to see it again. Telling the same story twice would just be boring.

      I mean at their core, they are the same person.

      Agreed. Plus Hook was never one who really required as much to redeem as the mass murdering tyrants that roam about the show. He was a bully and a typicalpirate but he was more opportunistic than deranged.

      And...I’m pretty sure “Nook” was not the reason the show was cancelled. Not even within the top 100 reasons. I think the fan goggles need to be removed because both Hooks are the same person and it’s like there’s some cognitive dissonance. Hook was pretty okay when interacting with Ursula until his opportunistic streak broke through. Actin. As though that Hook is somehow “better” than Nook is pretty stretchy.

      In addition, “Nook was trying to kill Hook and rape Emma and wasn’t thinking about Alice”.....is completely wrong and ignores the end of the episode. Did the episode cut off early? Nook clearly didn’t kill Hook and was under the assumption that if he could share a TLK with Emma that he could be free to live with Alice.

      He was trying to get to Storybrooke with Emma! He tried to kill Killian! He definitely wasn't thinking about his daughter at this moment. You know what? He only remembered her when Emma said she was pregnant.
      Have you watched the episode? Wish Hook says, "A child. That's why I'm doing all this in this first place. I'm trying to find my daughter." and "A vengeful witch trapped her in a prison. Every day, I'd sneak in to play chess with her. But I was discovered and punished. My heart was poisoned, cursed. So I can never save her. I knew that true love was the cure. So I roamed the realms seeking it, but it was futile. Then, I thought, maybe Emma." So he was definitely thinking of his daughter.

      And that is why he tried "to take the place of Killian" at the same time killing him and to go to Storybrooke to Emma where his daughter is definitely not? Don't see the logic. He didn't think about her at all.  

      Obviously, he was going to return to Alice once his heart was cured. I thought that was obvious.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Nightlily wrote:

      Alena765 wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      I can't believe what I read here. I'll never prefer such a vile character as Nook over Killian. Killian is so much better than him! He has five seasons of redemption and it's so perfect! Unlike Nook. God, he did NOTHING to redeem himself. He's only suffers due to the loss daughter, bur he does nothing. And redemption in 5 minutes, really? However, he planned to kill Killian and rape Emma, very cool. He didn't even think about the daughter. And he's definitely not a smart character, unlike Killian.

      All comments in support of Nook come from people who hate Killian, everything is clear. Just don't forget that Nook is one f the reasons why this show was cancelled, bc peaple hate him and they will forget about him when it's all over. 

      Killian and WishKillian are literally the same person in different versions of the same EF. People who hate one and love the other (in either direction), kind of don't make sense. Basically, it means you don't actually love or hate the character as an individual, you love or hate the idea of Emma's love interest.
      Is it serious? Dude, you're wrong. They are completely different! They have a completely different past (and to be precise, WHook doesn't have a past at all because he was created by the wish in episode 6x10). If you believe everything they say on the show, I feel sorry for you because you clearly don't see the logic.

      Alena, this is a warning: That kind of comments ("I feel sorry for you because you clearly don't see the logic") will not be tolerated on this board. It is rude and shows a lack of respect for other people's opinions.

      Yeah, thanks. I was letting it go for now since it is a new user, but probably a better idea to nip it in the bud.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      I can't believe what I read here. I'll never prefer such a vile character as Nook over Killian. Killian is so much better than him! He has five seasons of redemption and it's so perfect! Unlike Nook. God, he did NOTHING to redeem himself. He's only suffers due to the loss daughter, bur he does nothing. And redemption in 5 minutes, really? However, he planned to kill Killian and rape Emma, very cool. He didn't even think about the daughter. And he's definitely not a smart character, unlike Killian.

      All comments in support of Nook come from people who hate Killian, everything is clear. Just don't forget that Nook is one f the reasons why this show was cancelled, bc peaple hate him and they will forget about him when it's all over. 

      Killian and WishKillian are literally the same person in different versions of the same EF. People who hate one and love the other (in either direction), kind of don't make sense. Basically, it means you don't actually love or hate the character as an individual, you love or hate the idea of Emma's love interest.
      Is it serious? Dude, you're wrong. They are completely different! They have a completely different past (and to be precise, WHook doesn't have a past at all because he was created by the wish in episode 6x10). If you believe everything they say on the show, I feel sorry for you because you clearly don't see the logic.

      Killian Jones is the only one and we love him. We don't see him as Emma's love interest. We hate WHook because he's an insult to his character. Killian Jones is not such an idiot and Killian Jones will never do that. If you hate Killian and CS, well, that's your problem.

      The whole Wish Realm being created in 610 has been disproven in Season 7, where we see FBs to things that happened between the Wish characters and other realms (such as WHook and Gothel concieving Alice). It is you who is not using logic, because the show clearly shows us this fact.

      Season 6 shows that everything here is not real and I agree with it. WHook is not real, nor is his rapist and daughter. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Nightlily wrote:

      Alena765 wrote:

      Nightlily wrote:

      Alena765 wrote:


      Eskaver wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote: Okay......

      Thing is, I think it does kind of work that Nook's redemption arc was short handed. Because we saw over the course of 5 seasons how Killian has redeemed himself, so we don't need to see it again. Telling the same story twice would just be boring.

      I mean at their core, they are the same person.

      Agreed. Plus Hook was never one who really required as much to redeem as the mass murdering tyrants that roam about the show. He was a bully and a typicalpirate but he was more opportunistic than deranged.

      And...I’m pretty sure “Nook” was not the reason the show was cancelled. Not even within the top 100 reasons. I think the fan goggles need to be removed because both Hooks are the same person and it’s like there’s some cognitive dissonance. Hook was pretty okay when interacting with Ursula until his opportunistic streak broke through. Actin. As though that Hook is somehow “better” than Nook is pretty stretchy.

      In addition, “Nook was trying to kill Hook and rape Emma and wasn’t thinking about Alice”.....is completely wrong and ignores the end of the episode. Did the episode cut off early? Nook clearly didn’t kill Hook and was under the assumption that if he could share a TLK with Emma that he could be free to live with Alice.

      He was trying to get to Storybrooke with Emma! He tried to kill Killian! He definitely wasn't thinking about his daughter at this moment. You know what? He only remembered her when Emma said she was pregnant.
      Have you watched the episode? Wish Hook says, "A child. That's why I'm doing all this in this first place. I'm trying to find my daughter." and "A vengeful witch trapped her in a prison. Every day, I'd sneak in to play chess with her. But I was discovered and punished. My heart was poisoned, cursed. So I can never save her. I knew that true love was the cure. So I roamed the realms seeking it, but it was futile. Then, I thought, maybe Emma." So he was definitely thinking of his daughter.
      And that is why he tried "to take the place of Killian" at the same time killing him and to go to Storybrooke to Emma where his daughter is definitely not? Don't see the logic. He didn't think about her at all.  

      Obviously, he was going to return to Alice once his heart was cured. I thought that was obvious.

      Again, this does not negate the fact that he was planning to go to Storybrooke, and the killing of Killian, to take his place. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Alena765 wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      I can't believe what I read here. I'll never prefer such a vile character as Nook over Killian. Killian is so much better than him! He has five seasons of redemption and it's so perfect! Unlike Nook. God, he did NOTHING to redeem himself. He's only suffers due to the loss daughter, bur he does nothing. And redemption in 5 minutes, really? However, he planned to kill Killian and rape Emma, very cool. He didn't even think about the daughter. And he's definitely not a smart character, unlike Killian.

      All comments in support of Nook come from people who hate Killian, everything is clear. Just don't forget that Nook is one f the reasons why this show was cancelled, bc peaple hate him and they will forget about him when it's all over. 

      Killian and WishKillian are literally the same person in different versions of the same EF. People who hate one and love the other (in either direction), kind of don't make sense. Basically, it means you don't actually love or hate the character as an individual, you love or hate the idea of Emma's love interest.
      Is it serious? Dude, you're wrong. They are completely different! They have a completely different past (and to be precise, WHook doesn't have a past at all because he was created by the wish in episode 6x10). If you believe everything they say on the show, I feel sorry for you because you clearly don't see the logic.

      Killian Jones is the only one and we love him. We don't see him as Emma's love interest. We hate WHook because he's an insult to his character. Killian Jones is not such an idiot and Killian Jones will never do that. If you hate Killian and CS, well, that's your problem.

      The whole Wish Realm being created in 610 has been disproven in Season 7, where we see FBs to things that happened between the Wish characters and other realms (such as WHook and Gothel concieving Alice). It is you who is not using logic, because the show clearly shows us this fact.
      Season 6 shows that everything here is not real and I agree with it. WHook is not real, nor is his rapist and daughter. 

      Actually, that's wrong. In the time 610 aired Adam and Eddy said that in the second the Evil Queen granted Emma's wish the Wish Realm became real. So nope, it is not "fake."

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Lady Rapunzel wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      I can't believe what I read here. I'll never prefer such a vile character as Nook over Killian. Killian is so much better than him! He has five seasons of redemption and it's so perfect! Unlike Nook. God, he did NOTHING to redeem himself. He's only suffers due to the loss daughter, bur he does nothing. And redemption in 5 minutes, really? However, he planned to kill Killian and rape Emma, very cool. He didn't even think about the daughter. And he's definitely not a smart character, unlike Killian.

      All comments in support of Nook come from people who hate Killian, everything is clear. Just don't forget that Nook is one f the reasons why this show was cancelled, bc peaple hate him and they will forget about him when it's all over. 

      Killian and WishKillian are literally the same person in different versions of the same EF. People who hate one and love the other (in either direction), kind of don't make sense. Basically, it means you don't actually love or hate the character as an individual, you love or hate the idea of Emma's love interest.
      Is it serious? Dude, you're wrong. They are completely different! They have a completely different past (and to be precise, WHook doesn't have a past at all because he was created by the wish in episode 6x10). If you believe everything they say on the show, I feel sorry for you because you clearly don't see the logic.

      Killian Jones is the only one and we love him. We don't see him as Emma's love interest. We hate WHook because he's an insult to his character. Killian Jones is not such an idiot and Killian Jones will never do that. If you hate Killian and CS, well, that's your problem.

      The whole Wish Realm being created in 610 has been disproven in Season 7, where we see FBs to things that happened between the Wish characters and other realms (such as WHook and Gothel concieving Alice). It is you who is not using logic, because the show clearly shows us this fact.
      Season 6 shows that everything here is not real and I agree with it. WHook is not real, nor is his rapist and daughter. 
      Actually, that's wrong. In the time 610 aired Adam and Eddy said that in the second the Evil Queen granted Emma's wish the Wish Realm became real. So nope, it is not "fake."

      Here is it: http://ew.com/article/2016/12/03/once-upon-time-robin-hood-gideon-spoilers/

      Adam Horowitz: "It’s the wish realm. It’s the realm that was created by the wish, so it’s an actual place that exists now. The wish has created it, so it’s not an alternate realm in the sense that it’s just imaginary and not real; this place actually now exists and is real."

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Lady Rapunzel wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      I can't believe what I read here. I'll never prefer such a vile character as Nook over Killian. Killian is so much better than him! He has five seasons of redemption and it's so perfect! Unlike Nook. God, he did NOTHING to redeem himself. He's only suffers due to the loss daughter, bur he does nothing. And redemption in 5 minutes, really? However, he planned to kill Killian and rape Emma, very cool. He didn't even think about the daughter. And he's definitely not a smart character, unlike Killian.

      All comments in support of Nook come from people who hate Killian, everything is clear. Just don't forget that Nook is one f the reasons why this show was cancelled, bc peaple hate him and they will forget about him when it's all over. 

      Killian and WishKillian are literally the same person in different versions of the same EF. People who hate one and love the other (in either direction), kind of don't make sense. Basically, it means you don't actually love or hate the character as an individual, you love or hate the idea of Emma's love interest.
      Is it serious? Dude, you're wrong. They are completely different! They have a completely different past (and to be precise, WHook doesn't have a past at all because he was created by the wish in episode 6x10). If you believe everything they say on the show, I feel sorry for you because you clearly don't see the logic.

      Killian Jones is the only one and we love him. We don't see him as Emma's love interest. We hate WHook because he's an insult to his character. Killian Jones is not such an idiot and Killian Jones will never do that. If you hate Killian and CS, well, that's your problem.

      The whole Wish Realm being created in 610 has been disproven in Season 7, where we see FBs to things that happened between the Wish characters and other realms (such as WHook and Gothel concieving Alice). It is you who is not using logic, because the show clearly shows us this fact.
      Season 6 shows that everything here is not real and I agree with it. WHook is not real, nor is his rapist and daughter. 
      Actually, that's wrong. In the time 610 aired Adam and Eddy said that in the second the Evil Queen granted Emma's wish the Wish Realm became real. So nope, it is not "fake."

      They said they weren't real people! So, following your logic, Regina is the killer of Wish Snowing. Because it's "real people". And you forget the fact that Regina and Emma themselves have repeated many times that it's not real.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Alena765 wrote:
      Lady Rapunzel wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      I can't believe what I read here. I'll never prefer such a vile character as Nook over Killian. Killian is so much better than him! He has five seasons of redemption and it's so perfect! Unlike Nook. God, he did NOTHING to redeem himself. He's only suffers due to the loss daughter, bur he does nothing. And redemption in 5 minutes, really? However, he planned to kill Killian and rape Emma, very cool. He didn't even think about the daughter. And he's definitely not a smart character, unlike Killian.

      All comments in support of Nook come from people who hate Killian, everything is clear. Just don't forget that Nook is one f the reasons why this show was cancelled, bc peaple hate him and they will forget about him when it's all over. 

      Killian and WishKillian are literally the same person in different versions of the same EF. People who hate one and love the other (in either direction), kind of don't make sense. Basically, it means you don't actually love or hate the character as an individual, you love or hate the idea of Emma's love interest.
      Is it serious? Dude, you're wrong. They are completely different! They have a completely different past (and to be precise, WHook doesn't have a past at all because he was created by the wish in episode 6x10). If you believe everything they say on the show, I feel sorry for you because you clearly don't see the logic.

      Killian Jones is the only one and we love him. We don't see him as Emma's love interest. We hate WHook because he's an insult to his character. Killian Jones is not such an idiot and Killian Jones will never do that. If you hate Killian and CS, well, that's your problem.

      The whole Wish Realm being created in 610 has been disproven in Season 7, where we see FBs to things that happened between the Wish characters and other realms (such as WHook and Gothel concieving Alice). It is you who is not using logic, because the show clearly shows us this fact.
      Season 6 shows that everything here is not real and I agree with it. WHook is not real, nor is his rapist and daughter. 
      Actually, that's wrong. In the time 610 aired Adam and Eddy said that in the second the Evil Queen granted Emma's wish the Wish Realm became real. So nope, it is not "fake."
      They said they weren't real people! So, following your logic, Regina is the killer of Wish Snowing. Because it's "real people". And you forget the fact that Regina and Emma themselves have repeated many times that it's not real.

      It's not like Regina and Emma were real experts with the Wish Realm. It's not like they knew everything about it (beyond Emma's memories as Princess Emma). This article was published on December 3, 2016, and that was revealed by the own writers. What are you even discussing about?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote: Okay......

      Thing is, I think it does kind of work that Nook's redemption arc was short handed. Because we saw over the course of 5 seasons how Killian has redeemed himself, so we don't need to see it again. Telling the same story twice would just be boring.

      I mean at their core, they are the same person.

      Agreed. Plus Hook was never one who really required as much to redeem as the mass murdering tyrants that roam about the show. He was a bully and a typicalpirate but he was more opportunistic than deranged.

      And...I’m pretty sure “Nook” was not the reason the show was cancelled. Not even within the top 100 reasons. I think the fan goggles need to be removed because both Hooks are the same person and it’s like there’s some cognitive dissonance. Hook was pretty okay when interacting with Ursula until his opportunistic streak broke through. Actin. As though that Hook is somehow “better” than Nook is pretty stretchy.

      In addition, “Nook was trying to kill Hook and rape Emma and wasn’t thinking about Alice”.....is completely wrong and ignores the end of the episode. Did the episode cut off early? Nook clearly didn’t kill Hook and was under the assumption that if he could share a TLK with Emma that he could be free to live with Alice.

      I agree with all of what you said, but he did try to sexually assault Emma. He planned to kiss her while she thought he was the guy she married, and if sex was involved at some point that would have been rape.

      I mean, credit to him for not doing it and I think even if Emma was not pregnant he wouldn't have done it; Killian has a history of thinking he can do something but then not being able to do it (2x22 and 5x11). But that doesn't change that he planned to assault Emma, and I think the "backing out of premeditated murder/cleaning up a mess you started doesn't make you a hero" applies here.

      For me personally, what sours the whole thing is that he didn't back out of it because Emma didn't deserve to be violated, but because he would be separating a father and his child, and Emma was sort of reduced to an incubator for that scene. But hey, another indicator of Adam and Eddy need lessons on consent.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Lady Rapunzel wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      Lady Rapunzel wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      I can't believe what I read here. I'll never prefer such a vile character as Nook over Killian. Killian is so much better than him! He has five seasons of redemption and it's so perfect! Unlike Nook. God, he did NOTHING to redeem himself. He's only suffers due to the loss daughter, bur he does nothing. And redemption in 5 minutes, really? However, he planned to kill Killian and rape Emma, very cool. He didn't even think about the daughter. And he's definitely not a smart character, unlike Killian.

      All comments in support of Nook come from people who hate Killian, everything is clear. Just don't forget that Nook is one f the reasons why this show was cancelled, bc peaple hate him and they will forget about him when it's all over. 

      Killian and WishKillian are literally the same person in different versions of the same EF. People who hate one and love the other (in either direction), kind of don't make sense. Basically, it means you don't actually love or hate the character as an individual, you love or hate the idea of Emma's love interest.
      Is it serious? Dude, you're wrong. They are completely different! They have a completely different past (and to be precise, WHook doesn't have a past at all because he was created by the wish in episode 6x10). If you believe everything they say on the show, I feel sorry for you because you clearly don't see the logic.

      Killian Jones is the only one and we love him. We don't see him as Emma's love interest. We hate WHook because he's an insult to his character. Killian Jones is not such an idiot and Killian Jones will never do that. If you hate Killian and CS, well, that's your problem.

      The whole Wish Realm being created in 610 has been disproven in Season 7, where we see FBs to things that happened between the Wish characters and other realms (such as WHook and Gothel concieving Alice). It is you who is not using logic, because the show clearly shows us this fact.
      Season 6 shows that everything here is not real and I agree with it. WHook is not real, nor is his rapist and daughter. 
      Actually, that's wrong. In the time 610 aired Adam and Eddy said that in the second the Evil Queen granted Emma's wish the Wish Realm became real. So nope, it is not "fake."
      They said they weren't real people! So, following your logic, Regina is the killer of Wish Snowing. Because it's "real people". And you forget the fact that Regina and Emma themselves have repeated many times that it's not real.
      It's not like Regina and Emma were real experts with the Wish Realm. It's not like they knew everything about it (beyond Emma's memories as Princess Emma). This article was published on December 3, 2016, and that was revealed by the own writers. What are you even discussing about?

      The writers themselves on Twitter said that the WW and the people who are there aren't real right after the episode. So what are you talking about? 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Alena765 wrote:
      Lady Rapunzel wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      Lady Rapunzel wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      I can't believe what I read here. I'll never prefer such a vile character as Nook over Killian. Killian is so much better than him! He has five seasons of redemption and it's so perfect! Unlike Nook. God, he did NOTHING to redeem himself. He's only suffers due to the loss daughter, bur he does nothing. And redemption in 5 minutes, really? However, he planned to kill Killian and rape Emma, very cool. He didn't even think about the daughter. And he's definitely not a smart character, unlike Killian.

      All comments in support of Nook come from people who hate Killian, everything is clear. Just don't forget that Nook is one f the reasons why this show was cancelled, bc peaple hate him and they will forget about him when it's all over. 

      Killian and WishKillian are literally the same person in different versions of the same EF. People who hate one and love the other (in either direction), kind of don't make sense. Basically, it means you don't actually love or hate the character as an individual, you love or hate the idea of Emma's love interest.
      Is it serious? Dude, you're wrong. They are completely different! They have a completely different past (and to be precise, WHook doesn't have a past at all because he was created by the wish in episode 6x10). If you believe everything they say on the show, I feel sorry for you because you clearly don't see the logic.

      Killian Jones is the only one and we love him. We don't see him as Emma's love interest. We hate WHook because he's an insult to his character. Killian Jones is not such an idiot and Killian Jones will never do that. If you hate Killian and CS, well, that's your problem.

      The whole Wish Realm being created in 610 has been disproven in Season 7, where we see FBs to things that happened between the Wish characters and other realms (such as WHook and Gothel concieving Alice). It is you who is not using logic, because the show clearly shows us this fact.
      Season 6 shows that everything here is not real and I agree with it. WHook is not real, nor is his rapist and daughter. 
      Actually, that's wrong. In the time 610 aired Adam and Eddy said that in the second the Evil Queen granted Emma's wish the Wish Realm became real. So nope, it is not "fake."
      They said they weren't real people! So, following your logic, Regina is the killer of Wish Snowing. Because it's "real people". And you forget the fact that Regina and Emma themselves have repeated many times that it's not real.
      It's not like Regina and Emma were real experts with the Wish Realm. It's not like they knew everything about it (beyond Emma's memories as Princess Emma). This article was published on December 3, 2016, and that was revealed by the own writers. What are you even discussing about?
      The writers themselves on Twitter said that the WW and the people who are there aren't real right after the episode. So what are you talking about? 

      Have you even bothered yourself to read the article? It's from December 3, 2016, by the time the episode aired (one day before it, actually). 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Lady Rapunzel wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      Lady Rapunzel wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      Lady Rapunzel wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      I can't believe what I read here. I'll never prefer such a vile character as Nook over Killian. Killian is so much better than him! He has five seasons of redemption and it's so perfect! Unlike Nook. God, he did NOTHING to redeem himself. He's only suffers due to the loss daughter, bur he does nothing. And redemption in 5 minutes, really? However, he planned to kill Killian and rape Emma, very cool. He didn't even think about the daughter. And he's definitely not a smart character, unlike Killian.

      All comments in support of Nook come from people who hate Killian, everything is clear. Just don't forget that Nook is one f the reasons why this show was cancelled, bc peaple hate him and they will forget about him when it's all over. 

      Killian and WishKillian are literally the same person in different versions of the same EF. People who hate one and love the other (in either direction), kind of don't make sense. Basically, it means you don't actually love or hate the character as an individual, you love or hate the idea of Emma's love interest.
      Is it serious? Dude, you're wrong. They are completely different! They have a completely different past (and to be precise, WHook doesn't have a past at all because he was created by the wish in episode 6x10). If you believe everything they say on the show, I feel sorry for you because you clearly don't see the logic.

      Killian Jones is the only one and we love him. We don't see him as Emma's love interest. We hate WHook because he's an insult to his character. Killian Jones is not such an idiot and Killian Jones will never do that. If you hate Killian and CS, well, that's your problem.

      The whole Wish Realm being created in 610 has been disproven in Season 7, where we see FBs to things that happened between the Wish characters and other realms (such as WHook and Gothel concieving Alice). It is you who is not using logic, because the show clearly shows us this fact.
      Season 6 shows that everything here is not real and I agree with it. WHook is not real, nor is his rapist and daughter. 
      Actually, that's wrong. In the time 610 aired Adam and Eddy said that in the second the Evil Queen granted Emma's wish the Wish Realm became real. So nope, it is not "fake."
      They said they weren't real people! So, following your logic, Regina is the killer of Wish Snowing. Because it's "real people". And you forget the fact that Regina and Emma themselves have repeated many times that it's not real.
      It's not like Regina and Emma were real experts with the Wish Realm. It's not like they knew everything about it (beyond Emma's memories as Princess Emma). This article was published on December 3, 2016, and that was revealed by the own writers. What are you even discussing about?
      The writers themselves on Twitter said that the WW and the people who are there aren't real right after the episode. So what are you talking about? 
      Have you even bothered yourself to read the article? It's from December 3, 2016, by the time the episode aired (one day before it, actually). 

      I believe what was written by the writers themselves on their Twitter accounts, where they told EVERYONE that WW isn't real. 

      This conversation doesn't make sense. Your evidence is meaningless for me, my evidence are meaningless to you.

      At all, I told my opinion about WHook and this not will change. He's not the same person as Killian.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Alena765 wrote:
      Lady Rapunzel wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      Lady Rapunzel wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      Lady Rapunzel wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      I can't believe what I read here. I'll never prefer such a vile character as Nook over Killian. Killian is so much better than him! He has five seasons of redemption and it's so perfect! Unlike Nook. God, he did NOTHING to redeem himself. He's only suffers due to the loss daughter, bur he does nothing. And redemption in 5 minutes, really? However, he planned to kill Killian and rape Emma, very cool. He didn't even think about the daughter. And he's definitely not a smart character, unlike Killian.

      All comments in support of Nook come from people who hate Killian, everything is clear. Just don't forget that Nook is one f the reasons why this show was cancelled, bc peaple hate him and they will forget about him when it's all over. 

      Killian and WishKillian are literally the same person in different versions of the same EF. People who hate one and love the other (in either direction), kind of don't make sense. Basically, it means you don't actually love or hate the character as an individual, you love or hate the idea of Emma's love interest.
      Is it serious? Dude, you're wrong. They are completely different! They have a completely different past (and to be precise, WHook doesn't have a past at all because he was created by the wish in episode 6x10). If you believe everything they say on the show, I feel sorry for you because you clearly don't see the logic.

      Killian Jones is the only one and we love him. We don't see him as Emma's love interest. We hate WHook because he's an insult to his character. Killian Jones is not such an idiot and Killian Jones will never do that. If you hate Killian and CS, well, that's your problem.

      The whole Wish Realm being created in 610 has been disproven in Season 7, where we see FBs to things that happened between the Wish characters and other realms (such as WHook and Gothel concieving Alice). It is you who is not using logic, because the show clearly shows us this fact.
      Season 6 shows that everything here is not real and I agree with it. WHook is not real, nor is his rapist and daughter. 
      Actually, that's wrong. In the time 610 aired Adam and Eddy said that in the second the Evil Queen granted Emma's wish the Wish Realm became real. So nope, it is not "fake."
      They said they weren't real people! So, following your logic, Regina is the killer of Wish Snowing. Because it's "real people". And you forget the fact that Regina and Emma themselves have repeated many times that it's not real.
      It's not like Regina and Emma were real experts with the Wish Realm. It's not like they knew everything about it (beyond Emma's memories as Princess Emma). This article was published on December 3, 2016, and that was revealed by the own writers. What are you even discussing about?
      The writers themselves on Twitter said that the WW and the people who are there aren't real right after the episode. So what are you talking about? 
      Have you even bothered yourself to read the article? It's from December 3, 2016, by the time the episode aired (one day before it, actually). 
      I believe what was written by the writers themselves on their Twitter accounts, where they told EVERYONE that WW isn't real. 

      This conversation doesn't make sense. Your evidence is meaningless for me, my evidence are meaningless to you.

      At all, I told my opinion about WHook and this not will change. He's not the same person as Killian.

      You can't have an opinion on a inaccurate fact that you have evidence that is not real. But okay. I'm just losing my time with this discussion tbh.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • (MOD): Let’s try to move forward with a constructive conversation.”

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Lady Rapunzel wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      Lady Rapunzel wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      Lady Rapunzel wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      Lady Rapunzel wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Alena765 wrote:
      I can't believe what I read here. I'll never prefer such a vile character as Nook over Killian. Killian is so much better than him! He has five seasons of redemption and it's so perfect! Unlike Nook. God, he did NOTHING to redeem himself. He's only suffers due to the loss daughter, bur he does nothing. And redemption in 5 minutes, really? However, he planned to kill Killian and rape Emma, very cool. He didn't even think about the daughter. And he's definitely not a smart character, unlike Killian.

      All comments in support of Nook come from people who hate Killian, everything is clear. Just don't forget that Nook is one f the reasons why this show was cancelled, bc peaple hate him and they will forget about him when it's all over. 

      Killian and WishKillian are literally the same person in different versions of the same EF. People who hate one and love the other (in either direction), kind of don't make sense. Basically, it means you don't actually love or hate the character as an individual, you love or hate the idea of Emma's love interest.
      Is it serious? Dude, you're wrong. They are completely different! They have a completely different past (and to be precise, WHook doesn't have a past at all because he was created by the wish in episode 6x10). If you believe everything they say on the show, I feel sorry for you because you clearly don't see the logic.

      Killian Jones is the only one and we love him. We don't see him as Emma's love interest. We hate WHook because he's an insult to his character. Killian Jones is not such an idiot and Killian Jones will never do that. If you hate Killian and CS, well, that's your problem.

      The whole Wish Realm being created in 610 has been disproven in Season 7, where we see FBs to things that happened between the Wish characters and other realms (such as WHook and Gothel concieving Alice). It is you who is not using logic, because the show clearly shows us this fact.
      Season 6 shows that everything here is not real and I agree with it. WHook is not real, nor is his rapist and daughter. 
      Actually, that's wrong. In the time 610 aired Adam and Eddy said that in the second the Evil Queen granted Emma's wish the Wish Realm became real. So nope, it is not "fake."
      They said they weren't real people! So, following your logic, Regina is the killer of Wish Snowing. Because it's "real people". And you forget the fact that Regina and Emma themselves have repeated many times that it's not real.
      It's not like Regina and Emma were real experts with the Wish Realm. It's not like they knew everything about it (beyond Emma's memories as Princess Emma). This article was published on December 3, 2016, and that was revealed by the own writers. What are you even discussing about?
      The writers themselves on Twitter said that the WW and the people who are there aren't real right after the episode. So what are you talking about? 
      Have you even bothered yourself to read the article? It's from December 3, 2016, by the time the episode aired (one day before it, actually). 
      I believe what was written by the writers themselves on their Twitter accounts, where they told EVERYONE that WW isn't real. 

      This conversation doesn't make sense. Your evidence is meaningless for me, my evidence are meaningless to you.

      At all, I told my opinion about WHook and this not will change. He's not the same person as Killian.

      You can't have an opinion on a inaccurate fact that you have evidence that is not real. But okay. I'm just losing my time with this discussion tbh.

      There are screenshots from the writers of the show telling that 'Regina didn't commit murder against Wish Snowing because Wish people aren't real' also there's others like if the curse would've never been casted, what we watched on 6x11 and 6x12 wouldn't have been the real stoyline after those events.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Huh, this was the shortest closing of a thread I have seen

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Aine1989 wrote: Huh, this was the shortest closing of a thread I have seen

      Stay on topic. (I did say “temporarily” which isn’t too long.)

      Aside but slightly more on topic, I’m surprised they didn’t go by Hook or by Crook. Maybe that’s the thought behind Rogers (who I feel is even less of a character than Nook).

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote: Huh, this was the shortest closing of a thread I have seen

      Stay on topic. (I did say “temporarily” which isn’t too long.)

      Aside but slightly more on topic, I’m surprised they didn’t go by Hook or by Crook. Maybe that’s the thought behind Rogers (who I feel is even less of a character than Nook).

      Yeah... I mean I'm not saying Nook has had no development, just the bulk of it was off-screen (ie. changing from a evil pirate to a parent). He seems more of a prop in Alice's story.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I would say that Nooks character development is akin to the one off characters’: Simple and moves forward.

      I think Season 7 has proven that the writers can write the beginning and the end pretty well, but the middle...

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • So I'm most of the way through season 7 and have done some soul searching and.... I have issues with WHook. Basically, he does not seem to regret any of his actions. I mean compare these two:

      Killian, on the verge of tears: Every ring is a sad story.

      Nook, no sadness in sight: Every ring is a fantastic tale.

      Maybe it is just me, but I think that calling the rings you collected from the dead bodies you killed "fantastic tales" is just a little bit sociopathic.

      Also Nook's redemption feels too codependent on Alice for my liking. He's only really done one good thing (giving Ella the white elephant). For the whole of s7, he is trying to reunite himself with his daughter, which is a self-serving act (not selfish, but to an extent he is trying to get his happy ending). Killian Prime didn't care whether or not he'd be happy at the end; he just cared about being a better person.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I don't remember seeing that Nook has regret of his mistakes, he cared for Alice, yes, and did good things like (uncknowlingly for him) try to save "Rapunzel", help to defeat the Coven and WRumple (the cases like Nick's are exception, he was cursed).

      In the other hand, Hook had regret after falling in love with Emma and tried to fix them.

      As Lola said above, it's refreshing to see Killian without Emma, and if CaptainSwan wouldn't have happened, Hook would have the same attitude as Nook.

      Hook and Nook are the same person until the Curse, but the differents paths they chose made them regret or not or whatever. (Someone said this above, maybe Aine, Eskaver or CDA?)

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • The thing is, we've already seen a redemption arc for Hook, and even though him and Nook are different characters, it can get repetitive, so the writers showed us what his "turning point" ws that led him to becoming a good person, because they have a limited amount of time and episodes (the same thing happened with Ursula's backstory, we saw what lead her to the path of darkness). So for me, the redemption arc (or lack of) isn't really a negative factor in Nook's character - we know why he became good.

      What really makes Nook better for me is his storyline arc. As peviously mentioned, OG Hook's main relationship was with Emma (to me, he served a similar role to Belle). There was a some development with David which I did enjoy, but it was limited.

      With Nook, (aside from Alice), there was a consistent relationship with Weaver, which I enjoyed (almost like the male version of SwanQueen). It meant more because of where the characters relationship started, and it felt like Gothel was his new "crocodile" (which I liked). Again like Hook, there could have been more interations and story arcs with other characters, but his storyline with Weaver, Gothel and Alice sold me (plus he still served as a major play in S7 despite still being cursed).

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • The way I saw nooks attitude about the rings he was trying to cover the terrible things he had done in the past because he was desperate for Henry's friendship,he was jealous of Henry's relationship with hook and wanted henry to see him as a hero not a villain.that's how I saw it.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • i still think. the only reason goldenook had replaced captaincrocodile's s2-6 rivalry in s7, was bc show needed another captaincharming2.0. and our rumple with wish/hook fit the billing. i bawled like baby with goldenook's reconciliation, the friendships grew more than i thought it would. rumple died for nook in the end. wish/captaincrocodile wouldv buried the hatchet too, but never got the chance. bobby was remarkable whenever he played rumple and he's also 1of colin's heroes. so many chances colin got to work with bobby were always fantastic. i always looked forward to a captaincrocodile rivalry / goldenook broTP scene, tbh.

      i know for a fact that they both hated the feud-rivalry that lasted as long as rumple had been the dark one, or since the night killian met milah. s7 made me adore nook more than OGhook. im sorry. a&e did what they did bc they didnt want the fans ticked off abt captainswan not in the final season as much since Jmo left and we only saw her twice and emma mentioned several times off-screen or in conversation. the difference b/w nook&hook is. like others have said, they are the same, just alternate timelines. and i totally agree with what everyone has said so far.

      the wish variants felt like a joke, rip-offs the originals and they were created from Emma's wish of "I wish I was never the Savior" which brought throughout the worst running gag ever in ouat's history. altho wish-rumple stayed true to our rumple's former persona and raging temper, did once care for Belle (until he found her bones once Regina released him from Snowing's dungeon of Rumple's cell) and that wish-rumple locked up his own father, the same way our goldenpan did in 3A with pandora's box, so to speak. it did make a comeback for rumbelle, though that backfired when Hyde got ahold of her. i mean captainswan had captaincobra, just like gothelnook had knightrook if that makes any sense bcos i still had hoped wish/alice was an adult hope jones, had jmo not decided to leave but i was wrong.

      knightrook/madarcher grew on me fast too so when OGhook was like his own character having himself entangled with all of the Stiltskin's at some point from s2-6 as Rumple's father indirectly killed his brother Liam I. Rumple killed his first love, Milah, tho she was Rumple's first. Rilah's son Nealfire hated him, bc not only did his potential father figure take his own mother from him as a boy, but he also planned on taking his baby mama after the latter said, she would always choose her son and not one of them. When Neal died. Killian was haunted by his father's betrayal, his new family, named his third son after his first son, he felt betrayed, and left his younger half-brother like his father did, an orphan, cut to when Hook fought Liam II to save Henry's life. thats when i truly thought captaincobra was worth saving +nookbeliever was weird.

      So yes, Killian had a love-hate friendship with Belle in s6 and i say this bcos he was also willing to kill Rumbelle's son, Gideon who was going to take Emma from him... when no one ever asked him why he wanted to kill her, yet he tells his parents why. I mean, TeamEmma always jumped to conclusions and never looked at the facts in front of them where Snowing, CaptainSwan, WickedQueenBeliever were willing to kill a son, who was confused, manipulated, heartless-controlled by Rumple's evil mother bc of Belle's actions of sending her only child away with the one fairy who the darkest fairy of all hated more than any other character. No one cared about what Belle felt, Gideon was her son too, not just Rumple's, they all agreed they would kill her son, if he tried to kill Emma. just saying IMHO that was way off for the writers to turn TeamEmma against Rumbelle in that entire episode all bc it was Gideon, who had no choice. Going back to 4B how these so-called heroes were acting like anti-heroes, bc it was Emma's life on the line.

      Cutting back to Nook. he was tricked as well when he thought he had fallen in love with Rapunzel (who turned out to be an adult Lady Tremaine) but in reality, this false-ID of her was Mother Gothel trapped in the tower she kept Rapunzel in for years on end. IDKY Nook was meant to be the illusion of Flynn Rider as Gothel was like the embodiedment of Tangled's namesake, but much worse. How Alice was brought into that parental drama, she was kept away from her father, told her mother did it all to them and for what reason?! bc Gothel wanted to find the Guardian when it was her own daughter that whole time.

      Aside from the toxic relationship that was Gothelnook and how adorable Knightrook became in the end. Wickednook both shipped MadArcher sm as Rumple had when he said what he said to Alice abt Robin "you will fall in love, you will grow old together, you'll have a happy ending. free of towers." always liked Goldenwonders as it was nice to see Wickednook as Wickedhookedgold despised one another for several seasons before they all reconciled their differences as well. also does anyone else think, now Nook has Rumple's heart, even tho wishRumple was theDarkone, dont you think Nook is the new Dark one? IDKY it seemed logical to me at time, i mean OUaT without a darkone is like saying, that dagger without Rumple is bad enough xD Hook's redemption arc always had me conflicted, Nook's always reeled me back in for more, but i loved wishBlackbeardedNook. i mean those2 were hilarious fooling Henry the way they did. man im still gutted this show has ended.

      OK now im done. apologies for the long post. sorry in advance.   xo~BEC

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    • A Spy in the Mirror
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