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  • So here is what we know:

    -Emma was either 16 or 17 depending on which birthday you believe for Henry.

    -When they were together, Emma and Neal were in Oregon, where the age of consent is 18.

    -Neal was biologically 22/23, because of the age on the wanted poster. However he was much older due to his time spent on Neverland.

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    • "However he was much older due to his time spent on Neverland."

      This is easily one of the lamest excuse used to just create conflict I have ever read x)

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    • Lady Junky wrote:
      "However he was much older due to his time spent on Neverland."

      This is easily one of the lamest excuse used to just create conflict I have ever read x)

      Neverland stops your physical aging but not your mind aging. Which anyone who has watched the show will know.

      Pray tell, what is so lame about stating canon facts?

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    • Easy.

      Emma was canonically 17. It was statutory due to the laws of Oregon.

      Emma was raised for 16-17 years where 16 is age of consent.

      No one knows how time work in Neverland, not even the writers.

      The writers often round Henry’s age up.

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    • Aine1989 wrote:

      Lady Junky wrote:
      "However he was much older due to his time spent on Neverland."

      This is easily one of the lamest excuse used to just create conflict I have ever read x)

      Neverland stops your physical aging but not your mind aging. Which anyone who has watched the show will know.

      Pray tell, what is so lame about stating canon facts?

      Lame, like your constant attempt to purposefully create this kind of thread; because of your personal dislikes for 2/3 characters?

      Like when you always purposefully try to act like Hook was the best human being on the show by showing how bad Regina is and how she never redeemed herself. Or when you're ready to defend an obvious abuser (Milah) by victim-blaming Rumple because you hate him? And now, acting like Neal raped Emma because you obviously dislike Swanfire, and prefer CaptainSwan.

      So yeah, that is a very lame excuse.

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    • Lady Junky wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote:

      Lady Junky wrote:
      "However he was much older due to his time spent on Neverland."

      This is easily one of the lamest excuse used to just create conflict I have ever read x)

      Neverland stops your physical aging but not your mind aging. Which anyone who has watched the show will know.

      Pray tell, what is so lame about stating canon facts?

      Lame, like your constant attempt to purposefully create this kind of thread; because of your personal dislikes for 2/3 characters?

      Like when you always purposefully try to act like Hook was the best human being on the show by showing how bad Regina is and how she never redeemed herself. Or when you're ready to defend an obvious abuser (Milah) by victim-blaming Rumple because you hate him? And now, acting like Neal raped Emma because you obviously dislike Swanfire, and prefer CaptainSwan.

      So yeah, that is a very lame excuse.

      I created this thread to stop clogging up another thread on a different topic.

      You have still not pointed out how me saying that Baelfire mentally aged while on Neverland is "lame".

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    • People really make Emma and Neal into a much bigger deal than it is.

      If Emma's mentally capable enough at 17 years old to be off on her own, all alone, fending for herself, then she's capable enough to pick a guy she wants to be with. She and Neal had a really good thing going; they were truly happy together. And, like it's been pointed out on this thread and others, statutory laws range from 16-18 in the United States. Emma has traveled all over the country and has notably been from places where the age is 16; that's the age she most likely knows.

      As for Baelfire mentally aging, I don't think the writing of the show really reflects these claims. Take Hook - he's not really any different when he got his hand cut off than he is when joining forces with Cora. The show has never made it a point to acknowledge how Neverland psychology works. The reason I use Hook as an example is because we never saw Bae after he left Neverland before his transformation into Neal, but in Hook's case it seems you stay pretty much the same.

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    • Aine1989 wrote:
      So here is what we know:

      -Emma was either 16 or 17 depending on which birthday you believe for Henry.

      -When they were together, Emma and Neal were in Oregon, where the age of consent is 18.

      -Neal was biologically 22/23, because of the age on the wanted poster. However he was much older due to his time spent on Neverland.

      No, this isn't what we know. People have told you like 100 times on the last thread (and others if I remember correctly), that Emma can't be 16 because it doesn't fit the timeline; that Emma wouldn't know the age of consent in Oregon, when she lived her whole life where it was lower; and that we don't know how old Neal really is (both due to his birth year on the wanted poster being fabricated and we don't know how Neverland affects brain aging). Basically, your entire arguement is built on things you can't prove, and when people point that out, you just ignore them. If you aren't going to listen to anyone on these points, and just keep posting the same "facts" over and over again, what is even the point?

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote: If you aren't going to listen to anyone on these points, and just keep posting the same "facts" over and over again, what is even the point?

      Ruining some characters by demonizing them. Just like in the Milah/Rumple's domestic abuse case.

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    • Aine1989 wrote:

      Lady Junky wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote:

      Lady Junky wrote:
      "However he was much older due to his time spent on Neverland."

      This is easily one of the lamest excuse used to just create conflict I have ever read x)

      Neverland stops your physical aging but not your mind aging. Which anyone who has watched the show will know.

      Pray tell, what is so lame about stating canon facts?

      Lame, like your constant attempt to purposefully create this kind of thread; because of your personal dislikes for 2/3 characters?

      Like when you always purposefully try to act like Hook was the best human being on the show by showing how bad Regina is and how she never redeemed herself. Or when you're ready to defend an obvious abuser (Milah) by victim-blaming Rumple because you hate him? And now, acting like Neal raped Emma because you obviously dislike Swanfire, and prefer CaptainSwan.

      So yeah, that is a very lame excuse.

      I created this thread to stop clogging up another thread on a different topic.

      You have still not pointed out how me saying that Baelfire mentally aged while on Neverland is "lame".

      It is lame, because once again, you're trying to use "points" or "facts" that have never been said or proven on the show. You're trying to put certain words or facts where there is nothing, just to make your point.

      From what I understand, many people already pointed out the problems of your "facts", and you just choose to ignore them.

      So yeah, to me, it is lame, because you're just trying to create a thread where you can bash some characters, even when facts are not on your side.

      Here, your point is just to go around and pretend that Neal raped Emma to ruin the character's reputation, just because you hate him & you hate Swanfire.

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    • I also believe that Neal/Baelfire was mentally older than Emma because he had been alive for much longer than her. Just because Neverland stopped his physical aging, doesn't mean it stopped his mental aging. The show/writers have never stated anything (to my knowledge) about mental aging in Neverland so it's really a matter of opion. I also believe he was mentally older because he aged 8-9 years in the LWM based on the fact that he was still physically 14/15 when he escaped Neverland due to him spending less than a year with the Darlings. Based on his wanted poster stating his birth year, his physical age is 22/23. There is a large difference in maturity levels between a 22/23 year old and a 16/17 year old. I am of the opinion that Emma was 17 when Henry was born and either 16 or 17 when he was concieved because:

      Henry was already 10 on Emma's 28th birthday, meaning his birthday comes before hers in the year. If we go off his birthday being in August, he would have been concieved in November when Emma was barely 17. However, Adam and Eddy have stated that her and Neal's relationship took place during the summer. If we go off that, Henry would have been concieved when Emma was 16 and born roughly between September and October 27th. But because of it being a teenage pregnancy, it is highly possible he was a premature baby and the stated birthday fits with the timeline.  So Henry's birthday being August 15th works with Emma being either 16 or 17.

      Emma was under the age of consent in Oregon when Henry was concieved so her and Neal's relationship being sexual in nature was illegal and statutory rape. I personally find a sexual relationship (or a relationship in general) between a teenager and someone in their early 20s to be morally wrong because the adult is more mentally mature than the teenager who can practically be considered a child. Especially if the teenager in question is a homeless runaway with a low education level and possibly not knowing the full risks of unprotected sex.

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    • I'm going to bring this up as well, because I'm sick of the Emma was so much less mature than Neal arguement: Females mature (both physically and mentally) earlier than males. Scientific fact. So actually a 17 year old girl with a 22 year old boy would probably mean they are mentally at the same level.

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    • I love how all Emma "fans" keep acting like she was the dumbest character of the entire show just to prove their point x)

      I'm sorry Emilian but: "Especially if the teenager in question is a homeless runaway with a low education level and possibly not knowing the full risks of unprotected sex." I just find that VERY insulting for Emma's character. Emma NEVER EVER proved or showed that she had a low education level or anything. She has always showed that she was very intelligent, very capable of, and knowing exactly what to do in some situations.

      DeviousPeep explained everything. Emma was 17, she was completely able to know what she was doing and to take care of herself. She was completely able to leave by herself already. So, let's not act like she was dumb or not understanding what she was doing with Neal.

      She clearly was happy with Neal, and seeing how the character was written, I just doubt that he would force her into sex. Neal always loved Emma. Deeply. He never hurt her by himself or on purpose. They were both in love with each other.

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    • Emillian Swanones wrote: Henry was already 10 on Emma's 28th birthday, meaning his birthday comes before hers in the year. If we go off his birthday being in August, he would have been concieved in November when Emma was barely 17. However, Adam and Eddy have stated that her and Neal's relationship took place during the summer. If we go off that, Henry would have been concieved when Emma was 16 and born roughly between September and October 27th. But because of it being a teenage pregnancy, it is highly possible he was a premature baby and the stated birthday fits with the timeline.  So Henry's birthday being August 15th works with Emma being either 16 or 17.

      I've never heard about A&E saying that the relationship took place during the summer, but if they did, they were wrong, pure and simple - the writers are normal humans, just like the rest of us, and they are perfectly capable of screwing up in interviews, on Twitter etc. The show states that Neal and Emma met in 2001: A title card from "There's No Place Like Home", where we see a flashback from the day Emma and Neal met (we know it takes place on the day they met because they have the drink Neal suggested in "Tallahassee"), clearly says "Portland, 2001" (as seen here). Emma was born in October 1983, therefore she turned 17 the year before she met Neal. As for Henry's birthdate, it is perfectly possible that he was conceived in early 2001 and was born a few weeks to soon.

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    • Lady Junky wrote:
      I love how all Emma "fans" keep acting like she was the dumbest character of the entire show just to prove their point x)

      I'm sorry Emilian but: "Especially if the teenager in question is a homeless runaway with a low education level and possibly not knowing the full risks of unprotected sex." I just find that VERY insulting for Emma's character. Emma NEVER EVER proved or showed that she had a low education level or anything. She has always showed that she was very intelligent, very capable of, and knowing exactly what to do in some situations.

      DeviousPeep explained everything. Emma was 17, she was completely able to know what she was doing and to take care of herself. She was completely able to leave by herself already. So, let's not act like she was dumb or not understanding what she was doing with Neal.

      She clearly was happy with Neal, and seeing how the character was written, I just doubt that he would force her into sex. Neal always loved Emma. Deeply. He never hurt her by himself or on purpose. They were both in love with each other.

      Adding on to this, Emma was basically an emancipated minor, which may mean she could consent to sex without it being statutory rape (I'm not 100% sure on this, but someone can feel free to research). Here is about emancipation:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancipation_of_minors

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:

      Lady Junky wrote:
      I love how all Emma "fans" keep acting like she was the dumbest character of the entire show just to prove their point x)

      I'm sorry Emilian but: "Especially if the teenager in question is a homeless runaway with a low education level and possibly not knowing the full risks of unprotected sex." I just find that VERY insulting for Emma's character. Emma NEVER EVER proved or showed that she had a low education level or anything. She has always showed that she was very intelligent, very capable of, and knowing exactly what to do in some situations.

      DeviousPeep explained everything. Emma was 17, she was completely able to know what she was doing and to take care of herself. She was completely able to leave by herself already. So, let's not act like she was dumb or not understanding what she was doing with Neal.

      She clearly was happy with Neal, and seeing how the character was written, I just doubt that he would force her into sex. Neal always loved Emma. Deeply. He never hurt her by himself or on purpose. They were both in love with each other.

      Adding on to this, Emma was basically an emancipated minor, which may mean she could consent to sex without it being statutory rape (I'm not 100% sure on this, but someone can feel free to research). Here is about emancipation:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancipation_of_minors

      I know that in "True North", Emma states that she was in the foster system for sixteen years. Could that mean that she was emancipated at sixteen? I'm not American, so I don't know; just stating what Emma said.

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    • Nightlily wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:

      Lady Junky wrote:
      I love how all Emma "fans" keep acting like she was the dumbest character of the entire show just to prove their point x)

      I'm sorry Emilian but: "Especially if the teenager in question is a homeless runaway with a low education level and possibly not knowing the full risks of unprotected sex." I just find that VERY insulting for Emma's character. Emma NEVER EVER proved or showed that she had a low education level or anything. She has always showed that she was very intelligent, very capable of, and knowing exactly what to do in some situations.

      DeviousPeep explained everything. Emma was 17, she was completely able to know what she was doing and to take care of herself. She was completely able to leave by herself already. So, let's not act like she was dumb or not understanding what she was doing with Neal.

      She clearly was happy with Neal, and seeing how the character was written, I just doubt that he would force her into sex. Neal always loved Emma. Deeply. He never hurt her by himself or on purpose. They were both in love with each other.

      Adding on to this, Emma was basically an emancipated minor, which may mean she could consent to sex without it being statutory rape (I'm not 100% sure on this, but someone can feel free to research). Here is about emancipation:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancipation_of_minors

      I know that in "True North", Emma states that she was in the foster system for sixteen years. Could that mean that she was emancipated at sixteen? I'm not American, so I don't know; just stating what Emma said.

      Ooo, really good point. In the US, she would technically be in until 18, although she could have also just meant she ran away at 16 and so was only in foster care until 16 (they would have technically had to keep looking for her until 18 then, but obviously they either didn't find her or she was emancipated).

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:

      Nightlily wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:

      Lady Junky wrote:
      I love how all Emma "fans" keep acting like she was the dumbest character of the entire show just to prove their point x)

      I'm sorry Emilian but: "Especially if the teenager in question is a homeless runaway with a low education level and possibly not knowing the full risks of unprotected sex." I just find that VERY insulting for Emma's character. Emma NEVER EVER proved or showed that she had a low education level or anything. She has always showed that she was very intelligent, very capable of, and knowing exactly what to do in some situations.

      DeviousPeep explained everything. Emma was 17, she was completely able to know what she was doing and to take care of herself. She was completely able to leave by herself already. So, let's not act like she was dumb or not understanding what she was doing with Neal.

      She clearly was happy with Neal, and seeing how the character was written, I just doubt that he would force her into sex. Neal always loved Emma. Deeply. He never hurt her by himself or on purpose. They were both in love with each other.

      Adding on to this, Emma was basically an emancipated minor, which may mean she could consent to sex without it being statutory rape (I'm not 100% sure on this, but someone can feel free to research). Here is about emancipation:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancipation_of_minors

      I know that in "True North", Emma states that she was in the foster system for sixteen years. Could that mean that she was emancipated at sixteen? I'm not American, so I don't know; just stating what Emma said.

      Ooo, really good point. In the US, she would technically be in until 18, although she could have also just meant she ran away at 16 and so was only in foster care until 16 (they would have technically had to keep looking for her until 18 then, but obviously they either didn't find her or she was emancipated).

      Well, we know that she ran away more than once, as seen in "Breaking Glass", "Shattered Sight" and "Lily".

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    • Touli2
      Touli2 removed this reply because:
      Because i am on my phone I didn't type it properly. I have retyped the exact same comment and posted it again.
      00:39, February 21, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • Touli2
      Touli2 removed this reply because:
      I had already posted this exact comment I accidentally posted it twice.
      00:42, February 21, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • Lady Junky wrote:
      I love how all Emma "fans" keep acting like she was the dumbest character of the entire show just to prove their point x)

      I'm sorry Emilian but: "Especially if the teenager in question is a homeless runaway with a low education level and possibly not knowing the full risks of unprotected sex." I just find that VERY insulting for Emma's character. Emma NEVER EVER proved or showed that she had a low education level or anything. She has always showed that she was very intelligent, very capable of, and knowing exactly what to do in some situations.

      DeviousPeep explained everything. Emma was 17, she was completely able to know what she was doing and to take care of herself. She was completely able to leave by herself already. So, let's not act like she was dumb or not understanding what she was doing with Neal.

      She clearly was happy with Neal, and seeing how the character was written, I just doubt that he would force her into sex. Neal always loved Emma. Deeply. He never hurt her by himself or on purpose. They were both in love with each other.

      I mean a low education level in that she is almost certainly a high school drop out based on her being under 17 when she ran away, not her maturity level. It's probable that Emma got a GED while in prison, but that was after her relationship with Neal so it doesn't count when we're talking about their relationship. I am a huge Emma fan and I would never ever insult her character. Of course Emma is very intelligent and capable, but we do not know how much sexual education she had in school and if she learned anything on the streets. I am not acting like she is dumb, I am simply of the opinion that Neal, who is at least 8 to 9 years mentally and physically older than her would also know about the risks of unprotected sex and possibly more than she does. Yes, they were happy together and she would have agreed to have sex with him, but I still find it weird because of their age difference.

      EDIT: Emma defintely had a better education level than Neal due to the EF not having much of an education system, but I still find their relationship weird because Emma is a minor and Neal is most likely older than 18 based on his wanted poster even if they are of the same maturity level.

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    • Emillian Swanones wrote:

      Lady Junky wrote:
      I love how all Emma "fans" keep acting like she was the dumbest character of the entire show just to prove their point x)

      I'm sorry Emilian but: "Especially if the teenager in question is a homeless runaway with a low education level and possibly not knowing the full risks of unprotected sex." I just find that VERY insulting for Emma's character. Emma NEVER EVER proved or showed that she had a low education level or anything. She has always showed that she was very intelligent, very capable of, and knowing exactly what to do in some situations.

      DeviousPeep explained everything. Emma was 17, she was completely able to know what she was doing and to take care of herself. She was completely able to leave by herself already. So, let's not act like she was dumb or not understanding what she was doing with Neal.

      She clearly was happy with Neal, and seeing how the character was written, I just doubt that he would force her into sex. Neal always loved Emma. Deeply. He never hurt her by himself or on purpose. They were both in love with each other.

      I mean a low education level in that she is almost certainly a high school drop out based on her being under 17 when she ran away, not her maturity level. It's probable that Emma got a GED while in prison, but that was after her relationship with Neal so it doesn't count when we're talking about their relationship. I am a huge Emma fan and I would never ever insult her character. Of course Emma is very intelligent and capable, but we do not know how much sexual education she had in school and if she learned anything on the streets. I am not acting like she is dumb, I am simply of the opinion that Neal, who is at least 8 to 9 years mentally and physically older than her would also know about the risks of unprotected sex and possibly more than she does. Yes, they were happy together and she would have agreed to have sex with him, but I still find it weird because of their age difference.

      If your main problem between them is the age difference... Honestly, I hear it and respect it. It is your opinion, and you have the right to think like that. No problem here.

      But, when the topic is about her "rape" by Neal... I can hear the unprotected sex stuff too.

      But having unprotected sex does not mean rape. That's ABSOLUTELY not the same thing.

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    • Emillian Swanones wrote:
      Lady Junky wrote:
      I love how all Emma "fans" keep acting like she was the dumbest character of the entire show just to prove their point x)

      I'm sorry Emilian but: "Especially if the teenager in question is a homeless runaway with a low education level and possibly not knowing the full risks of unprotected sex." I just find that VERY insulting for Emma's character. Emma NEVER EVER proved or showed that she had a low education level or anything. She has always showed that she was very intelligent, very capable of, and knowing exactly what to do in some situations.

      DeviousPeep explained everything. Emma was 17, she was completely able to know what she was doing and to take care of herself. She was completely able to leave by herself already. So, let's not act like she was dumb or not understanding what she was doing with Neal.

      She clearly was happy with Neal, and seeing how the character was written, I just doubt that he would force her into sex. Neal always loved Emma. Deeply. He never hurt her by himself or on purpose. They were both in love with each other.

      I mean a low education level in that she is almost certainly a high school drop out based on her being under 17 when she ran away, not her maturity level. It's probable that Emma got a GED while in prison, but that was after her relationship with Neal so it doesn't count when we're talking about their relationship. I am a huge Emma fan and I would never ever insult her character. Of course Emma is very intelligent and capable, but we do not know how much sexual education she had in school and if she learned anything on the streets. I am not acting like she is dumb, I am simply of the opinion that Neal, who is at least 8 to 9 years mentally and physically older than her would also know about the risks of unprotected sex and possibly more than she does. Yes, they were happy together and she would have agreed to have sex with him, but I still find it weird because of their age difference.

      Because Neal had sex ed classes in the EF? Oh, wait no. How about Victorian England? Nope, they were prudes. Oh, then he must have gotten it in Neverland? Wait, that doesn't seem right either. If anything Emma has more sex ed (and other classes) than Neal.

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    • Touli2 wrote: Where is your evidence Emma was 16 or 17 when she dated and had sex with Neal? I do not remember this ever being stated in the show.

      Where is your evidence Neal was 21 or 22 when he dated and had sex with Emma? I do not remember this ever being stated in the show. What wanted poster are you refferring to? Can you show me it?

      The show states that Emma was seventeen (not sixteen) when Henry was conceived, which I've already explained here. As for Neal's wanted poster, it can be seen in this image. But even so, CoolDudeAl pointed something out in the other thread: "Neal's birth year is made up, because Neal was really born hundreds of years ago, and in a different world. So we don't know if Neal is really 22/23, or if at some point he made up an age for himself that people would believe. He could biologically be 18 for all we know, and just has a fake birthday that makes him 22." Couldn't have said it better myself.

      I'm not going to enter into the statutory rape debate, but I actually like Emma and Neal's relationship in "Tallahassee". I don't like Neal as a character (I find him rather bland and boring), but he and Emma were deeply in love and made each other happy. I think their story was beautiful and heartbreaking.

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    • Nightlily wrote:

      Emillian Swanones wrote: Henry was already 10 on Emma's 28th birthday, meaning his birthday comes before hers in the year. If we go off his birthday being in August, he would have been concieved in November when Emma was barely 17. However, Adam and Eddy have stated that her and Neal's relationship took place during the summer. If we go off that, Henry would have been concieved when Emma was 16 and born roughly between September and October 27th. But because of it being a teenage pregnancy, it is highly possible he was a premature baby and the stated birthday fits with the timeline.  So Henry's birthday being August 15th works with Emma being either 16 or 17.

      I've never heard about A&E saying that the relationship took place during the summer, but if they did, they were wrong, pure and simple - the writers are normal humans, just like the rest of us, and they are perfectly capable of screwing up in interviews, on Twitter etc. The show states that Neal and Emma met in 2001: A title card from "There's No Place Like Home", where we see a flashback from the day Emma and Neal met (we know it takes place on the day they met because they have the drink Neal suggested in "Tallahassee"), clearly says "Portland, 2001" (as seen here). Emma was born in October 1983, therefore she turned 17 the year before she met Neal. As for Henry's birthdate, it is perfectly possible that he was conceived in early 2001 and was born a few weeks to soon.

      I forgot that they met in 2001. Thanks for clearing that up.

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    • Really... this again?

      So, we're just putting the facts according to that place's law system? Because all law system in that area is perfect? Then yeah, some women in some Muslim country can't drive cars. According to your logic, if those women get locked up because of that, it's fine, because those people act seriously fine according to that place......

      What's up with Emma being 17 and having sex with Neal in Oregon? So, if she was in another state where the age of consent is 16, it would perfectly be fine?

      Emma was old enough to know what she wants. And so was Neal. That's just it. Not protecting is their problem.

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    • Lady Junky wrote:
      I love how all Emma "fans" keep acting like she was the dumbest character of the entire show just to prove their point x)

      I'm sorry Emilian but: "Especially if the teenager in question is a homeless runaway with a low education level and possibly not knowing the full risks of unprotected sex." I just find that VERY insulting for Emma's character. Emma NEVER EVER proved or showed that she had a low education level or anything. She has always showed that she was very intelligent, very capable of, and knowing exactly what to do in some situations.

      DeviousPeep explained everything. Emma was 17, she was completely able to know what she was doing and to take care of herself. She was completely able to leave by herself already. So, let's not act like she was dumb or not understanding what she was doing with Neal.

      She clearly was happy with Neal, and seeing how the character was written, I just doubt that he would force her into sex. Neal always loved Emma. Deeply. He never hurt her by himself or on purpose. They were both in love with each other.

      (lol yes bc letting her go to jail didn't hurt her in any way whatsoever)

      No one is saying Emma is dumb, so stop putting words in our mouths. We are saying that adults having relationships with teenagers is wrong. If Emma had been played by Abby Ross (or another teen actress bc Abby was like 14 when Tallahassee was filmed), would you be syaing thet same thing?

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      I'm going to bring this up as well, because I'm sick of the Emma was so much less mature than Neal arguement: Females mature (both physically and mentally) earlier than males. Scientific fact. So actually a 17 year old girl with a 22 year old boy would probably mean they are mentally at the same level.

      It i actually speculated that girls don't mature faster than boys, we just tolerate boys s*** for longer.

      But no offence, that is gross. And rape cultrue.

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    • Aine1989 wrote:

      Lady Junky wrote:
      I love how all Emma "fans" keep acting like she was the dumbest character of the entire show just to prove their point x)

      I'm sorry Emilian but: "Especially if the teenager in question is a homeless runaway with a low education level and possibly not knowing the full risks of unprotected sex." I just find that VERY insulting for Emma's character. Emma NEVER EVER proved or showed that she had a low education level or anything. She has always showed that she was very intelligent, very capable of, and knowing exactly what to do in some situations.

      DeviousPeep explained everything. Emma was 17, she was completely able to know what she was doing and to take care of herself. She was completely able to leave by herself already. So, let's not act like she was dumb or not understanding what she was doing with Neal.

      She clearly was happy with Neal, and seeing how the character was written, I just doubt that he would force her into sex. Neal always loved Emma. Deeply. He never hurt her by himself or on purpose. They were both in love with each other.

      (lol yes bc letting her go to jail didn't hurt her in any way whatsoever)

      No one is saying Emma is dumb, so stop putting words in our mouths. We are saying that adults having relationships with teenagers is wrong. If Emma had been played by Abby Ross (or another teen actress bc Abby was like 14 when Tallahassee was filmed), would you be syaing thet same thing?

      Putting words in your mouth? That's what you're saying, and doing.

      And could you stop comparing this to a situation which does not exist, please? Abby Ross never portrayed Emma at 17. Emma would have been younger if it was Abby Ross. And it was JMO, not her.

      Emma was 17. By at least half of the US states, she knew what she is doing, and it was legal. You're just creating and making a fake problem because it happened in Oregon? lol That's just the lamest, excuse me. As Cado said, if it happened in another state, this discussion would never EVER happen, and YOU would not say the same thing at all.

      And as I said, Neal never hurt her "by himself". And that's the case. Emma went to jail because Neal let her, true, but he was forced to do it by August. Otherwise, it would not have happened.

      So yeah, again, I stand by my opinion: this entire thread is just an attempt to create conflict, which you did, based on a fake problem. Congrats. And excuse me, I insist on "fake problem" because as many pointed out.... The only reason you call that "rape", it is because it happened in Oregon. Sorry for Emma for not having sex in New York, Maine or Michigan.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Lady Junky wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote:

      Lady Junky wrote:
      I love how all Emma "fans" keep acting like she was the dumbest character of the entire show just to prove their point x)

      I'm sorry Emilian but: "Especially if the teenager in question is a homeless runaway with a low education level and possibly not knowing the full risks of unprotected sex." I just find that VERY insulting for Emma's character. Emma NEVER EVER proved or showed that she had a low education level or anything. She has always showed that she was very intelligent, very capable of, and knowing exactly what to do in some situations.

      DeviousPeep explained everything. Emma was 17, she was completely able to know what she was doing and to take care of herself. She was completely able to leave by herself already. So, let's not act like she was dumb or not understanding what she was doing with Neal.

      She clearly was happy with Neal, and seeing how the character was written, I just doubt that he would force her into sex. Neal always loved Emma. Deeply. He never hurt her by himself or on purpose. They were both in love with each other.

      (lol yes bc letting her go to jail didn't hurt her in any way whatsoever)

      No one is saying Emma is dumb, so stop putting words in our mouths. We are saying that adults having relationships with teenagers is wrong. If Emma had been played by Abby Ross (or another teen actress bc Abby was like 14 when Tallahassee was filmed), would you be syaing thet same thing?

      Putting words in your mouth? That's what you're saying, and doing.

      And could you stop comparing this to a situation which does not exist, please? Abby Ross never portrayed Emma at 17. Emma would have been younger if it was Abby Ross. And it was JMO, not her.

      Emma was 17. By at least half of the US states, she knew what she is doing, and it was legal. You're just creating and making a fake problem because it happened in Oregon? lol That's just the lamest, excuse me. As Cado said, if it happened in another state, this discussion would never EVER happen, and YOU would not say the same thing at all.

      And as I said, Neal never hurt her "by himself". And that's the case. Emma went to jail because Neal let her, true, but he was forced to do it by August. Otherwise, it would not have happened.

      So yeah, again, I stand by my opinion: this entire thread is just an attempt to create conflict, which you did, based on a fake problem. Congrats. And excuse me, I insist on "fake problem" because as many pointed out.... The only reason you call that "rape", it is because it happened in Oregon. Sorry for Emma for not having sex in New York, Maine or Michigan.

      One quick input: I agree with most of the things you say about Emma and Neal (though I disagree with the part about Neal being forced by August), but please do not add comments like "lol"; it is basically the same as laughing in someone's face and goes against the rules of treating other users with respect. Hope you understand :-)

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Neal was just 5-6 years older than Emma, who was a mature young woman. But as mature as they were, it seems that they didn't use condom. IMO (and in French culture), that's the sole issue !... And it's not like she will have a second child with his stepfather ! Oh wait ! OooOOOOps ! ^^

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • VandelScalis wrote: Neal was just 5-6 years older than Emma, who was a mature young woman. But as mature as they were, it seems that they didn't use condom. IMO (and in French culture), that's the sole issue !... And it's not like she will have a second child with his stepfather ! Oh wait ! OooOOOOps ! ^^

      Or maybe they did use a condom and it broke? That happened to a friend of mine once. Sometimes contraceptives fail.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Lady Junky wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote:


      Lady Junky wrote:
      I love how all Emma "fans" keep acting like she was the dumbest character of the entire show just to prove their point x)

      I'm sorry Emilian but: "Especially if the teenager in question is a homeless runaway with a low education level and possibly not knowing the full risks of unprotected sex." I just find that VERY insulting for Emma's character. Emma NEVER EVER proved or showed that she had a low education level or anything. She has always showed that she was very intelligent, very capable of, and knowing exactly what to do in some situations.

      DeviousPeep explained everything. Emma was 17, she was completely able to know what she was doing and to take care of herself. She was completely able to leave by herself already. So, let's not act like she was dumb or not understanding what she was doing with Neal.

      She clearly was happy with Neal, and seeing how the character was written, I just doubt that he would force her into sex. Neal always loved Emma. Deeply. He never hurt her by himself or on purpose. They were both in love with each other.

      (lol yes bc letting her go to jail didn't hurt her in any way whatsoever)

      No one is saying Emma is dumb, so stop putting words in our mouths. We are saying that adults having relationships with teenagers is wrong. If Emma had been played by Abby Ross (or another teen actress bc Abby was like 14 when Tallahassee was filmed), would you be syaing thet same thing?

      Putting words in your mouth? That's what you're saying, and doing.

      And could you stop comparing this to a situation which does not exist, please? Abby Ross never portrayed Emma at 17. Emma would have been younger if it was Abby Ross. And it was JMO, not her.

      Emma was 17. By at least half of the US states, she knew what she is doing, and it was legal. You're just creating and making a fake problem because it happened in Oregon? lol That's just the lamest, excuse me. As Cado said, if it happened in another state, this discussion would never EVER happen, and YOU would not say the same thing at all.

      And as I said, Neal never hurt her "by himself". And that's the case. Emma went to jail because Neal let her, true, but he was forced to do it by August. Otherwise, it would not have happened.

      So yeah, again, I stand by my opinion: this entire thread is just an attempt to create conflict, which you did, based on a fake problem. Congrats. And excuse me, I insist on "fake problem" because as many pointed out.... The only reason you call that "rape", it is because it happened in Oregon. Sorry for Emma for not having sex in New York, Maine or Michigan.

      Hence why I said "or another teen actress". Although when filming Emma flashbacks for season 4, Abby was 17. If Emma had been played by a 17 year old actress, would you still be defending Neal?

      I think if they were in another state I would still be against an adult having a relationship with a teenager. I think Ezra/Aria from Pretty Little Liars is just as gross despite the fact the age of consent in Pennsylvania (where the show is set) is 16 and she was 17.

      Emma was a homeless 17 year old runaway who had been starved of affection almost all her life. Does that sound like the kind of person mature enough to have sex with a man 5/6 years older than her (and those 5/6 years do make all the difference when you're talking about a teenager and a guy in his 20s)

      And you are putting words in our mouths by saying we are calling Emma dumb when that is not what we are doing. No one has said she is dumb. We are simply saying that we don't think teenagers are mature or old enough to consent to sex with adults.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Aine1989 wrote: So here is what we know:

      -Emma was either 16 or 17 depending on which birthday you believe for Henry.

      -When they were together, Emma and Neal were in Oregon, where the age of consent is 18.

      -Neal was biologically 22/23, because of the age on the wanted poster. However he was much older due to his time spent on Neverland.

      Im pretty sure Neal's age when he dated and had sex with Emma has never been stated. What wanted poster are you reffering to? Can you show me it?

      Im also pretty sure Emma's age at the time she dated and had sex with Neal has never been stated.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Touli2 wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote: So here is what we know:

      -Emma was either 16 or 17 depending on which birthday you believe for Henry.

      -When they were together, Emma and Neal were in Oregon, where the age of consent is 18.

      -Neal was biologically 22/23, because of the age on the wanted poster. However he was much older due to his time spent on Neverland.

      Im pretty sure Neal's age when he dated and had sex with Emma has never been stated. What wanted poster are you reffering to? Can you show me it?

      Im also pretty sure Emma's age at the time she dated and had sex with Neal has never been stated.

      http://anti--swanfire.tumblr.com/post/102230256986/a-few-anons-asked-me-if-i-could-post-a-picture-of

      The second picture shows the wanted poster, which lists Neal's DoB as March 1977.

      Now before everyone goes "AHHAHHHH BUT THE POSTER WAS FALSE" the most likely scenario is that when Bae landed in the LWM he was picked up by social services and given a date of birth close to his own ie. if he was 15, he would have landed in the LWM in 1992, and so been given 1977 as the birth year. WHich is the most liekly scenario. In any case, the poster was put there and never contradicted to show us how old he was.

      They didn't need to state Emma's age. Henry was 10 years and 2 months (or 6 months depending on which birthday you believe) on her 28th birthday, I am pretty sure the writers thought you could work it out from there.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Touli2 wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote: So here is what we know:

      -Emma was either 16 or 17 depending on which birthday you believe for Henry.

      -When they were together, Emma and Neal were in Oregon, where the age of consent is 18.

      -Neal was biologically 22/23, because of the age on the wanted poster. However he was much older due to his time spent on Neverland.

      Im pretty sure Neal's age when he dated and had sex with Emma has never been stated. What wanted poster are you reffering to? Can you show me it?

      Im also pretty sure Emma's age at the time she dated and had sex with Neal has never been stated.

      Emma was 17, that is known because math. They conceived Henry in 2001. 2001 minus 1883 is 18. 18 minus several months leaves Emma to be 17 when she conceived Henry. Emma said that she had Henry when she was 18, but she rounded up from 17 and 10 months.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Aine1989 wrote:

      Lady Junky wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote:


      Lady Junky wrote:
      I love how all Emma "fans" keep acting like she was the dumbest character of the entire show just to prove their point x)

      I'm sorry Emilian but: "Especially if the teenager in question is a homeless runaway with a low education level and possibly not knowing the full risks of unprotected sex." I just find that VERY insulting for Emma's character. Emma NEVER EVER proved or showed that she had a low education level or anything. She has always showed that she was very intelligent, very capable of, and knowing exactly what to do in some situations.

      DeviousPeep explained everything. Emma was 17, she was completely able to know what she was doing and to take care of herself. She was completely able to leave by herself already. So, let's not act like she was dumb or not understanding what she was doing with Neal.

      She clearly was happy with Neal, and seeing how the character was written, I just doubt that he would force her into sex. Neal always loved Emma. Deeply. He never hurt her by himself or on purpose. They were both in love with each other.

      (lol yes bc letting her go to jail didn't hurt her in any way whatsoever)

      No one is saying Emma is dumb, so stop putting words in our mouths. We are saying that adults having relationships with teenagers is wrong. If Emma had been played by Abby Ross (or another teen actress bc Abby was like 14 when Tallahassee was filmed), would you be syaing thet same thing?

      Putting words in your mouth? That's what you're saying, and doing.

      And could you stop comparing this to a situation which does not exist, please? Abby Ross never portrayed Emma at 17. Emma would have been younger if it was Abby Ross. And it was JMO, not her.

      Emma was 17. By at least half of the US states, she knew what she is doing, and it was legal. You're just creating and making a fake problem because it happened in Oregon? lol That's just the lamest, excuse me. As Cado said, if it happened in another state, this discussion would never EVER happen, and YOU would not say the same thing at all.

      And as I said, Neal never hurt her "by himself". And that's the case. Emma went to jail because Neal let her, true, but he was forced to do it by August. Otherwise, it would not have happened.

      So yeah, again, I stand by my opinion: this entire thread is just an attempt to create conflict, which you did, based on a fake problem. Congrats. And excuse me, I insist on "fake problem" because as many pointed out.... The only reason you call that "rape", it is because it happened in Oregon. Sorry for Emma for not having sex in New York, Maine or Michigan.

      Hence why I said "or another teen actress". Although when filming Emma flashbacks for season 4, Abby was 17. If Emma had been played by a 17 year old actress, would you still be defending Neal?

      I think if they were in another state I would still be against an adult having a relationship with a teenager. I think Ezra/Aria from Pretty Little Liars is just as gross despite the fact the age of consent in Pennsylvania (where the show is set) is 16 and she was 17.

      Emma was a homeless 17 year old runaway who had been starved of affection almost all her life. Does that sound like the kind of person mature enough to have sex with a man 5/6 years older than her (and those 5/6 years do make all the difference when you're talking about a teenager and a guy in his 20s)

      And you are putting words in our mouths by saying we are calling Emma dumb when that is not what we are doing. No one has said she is dumb. We are simply saying that we don't think teenagers are mature or old enough to consent to sex with adults.

      But the audience doesn’t know what biological age Neal is meant to represent. Jennifer Morrison was playing a 17 year old when it is fairly obvious she wasn’t 17. If they were to cast another actress as a teenage Emma then they would have cast for a teenage Neal too. I doubt their intention would be to make Neal look 30 and Emma look 17.

      I agree, though, that teenagers minds aren’t completely developed, so they shouldn’t consent to adults.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • We actually do know Neal's age; it was on the wanted poster that he was 23.

      But if you didn't get a look at that consider this:

      -He had a job at a high end jewllery store that had insurance, which would not hire a teenager.

      -For said job, he would need a really good fake ID, not one just to sneak into a club. Also off the top of my head he'd need a social security number but I'm sure there's more. And he would then have to know how to acquire the moola to get one.

      -He was so well adjusted to the world he was able to completely fool Emma, as well as knowing how to hotwire a car

      -He said he thought the heat around the robbery had died down, so it had to have been over a year since he worked there.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Aine1989 wrote:
      Lady Junky wrote:
      I love how all Emma "fans" keep acting like she was the dumbest character of the entire show just to prove their point x)

      I'm sorry Emilian but: "Especially if the teenager in question is a homeless runaway with a low education level and possibly not knowing the full risks of unprotected sex." I just find that VERY insulting for Emma's character. Emma NEVER EVER proved or showed that she had a low education level or anything. She has always showed that she was very intelligent, very capable of, and knowing exactly what to do in some situations.

      DeviousPeep explained everything. Emma was 17, she was completely able to know what she was doing and to take care of herself. She was completely able to leave by herself already. So, let's not act like she was dumb or not understanding what she was doing with Neal.

      She clearly was happy with Neal, and seeing how the character was written, I just doubt that he would force her into sex. Neal always loved Emma. Deeply. He never hurt her by himself or on purpose. They were both in love with each other.

      (lol yes bc letting her go to jail didn't hurt her in any way whatsoever)

      No one is saying Emma is dumb, so stop putting words in our mouths. We are saying that adults having relationships with teenagers is wrong. If Emma had been played by Abby Ross (or another teen actress bc Abby was like 14 when Tallahassee was filmed), would you be syaing thet same thing?

      The better question is if Neal was played by Dylan (Baelfire's actor), would you be saying the same thing? Dylan would be closer to 22 than Michael was, so that would be more accurate how he would have looked at the age of that scene.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Aine1989 wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      I'm going to bring this up as well, because I'm sick of the Emma was so much less mature than Neal arguement: Females mature (both physically and mentally) earlier than males. Scientific fact. So actually a 17 year old girl with a 22 year old boy would probably mean they are mentally at the same level.
      It i actually speculated that girls don't mature faster than boys, we just tolerate boys s*** for longer.

      But no offence, that is gross. And rape cultrue.

      Okay, sure, don't believe science, they only have very intense processes to figure these things out.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      Lady Junky wrote:
      I love how all Emma "fans" keep acting like she was the dumbest character of the entire show just to prove their point x)

      I'm sorry Emilian but: "Especially if the teenager in question is a homeless runaway with a low education level and possibly not knowing the full risks of unprotected sex." I just find that VERY insulting for Emma's character. Emma NEVER EVER proved or showed that she had a low education level or anything. She has always showed that she was very intelligent, very capable of, and knowing exactly what to do in some situations.

      DeviousPeep explained everything. Emma was 17, she was completely able to know what she was doing and to take care of herself. She was completely able to leave by herself already. So, let's not act like she was dumb or not understanding what she was doing with Neal.

      She clearly was happy with Neal, and seeing how the character was written, I just doubt that he would force her into sex. Neal always loved Emma. Deeply. He never hurt her by himself or on purpose. They were both in love with each other.

      (lol yes bc letting her go to jail didn't hurt her in any way whatsoever)

      No one is saying Emma is dumb, so stop putting words in our mouths. We are saying that adults having relationships with teenagers is wrong. If Emma had been played by Abby Ross (or another teen actress bc Abby was like 14 when Tallahassee was filmed), would you be syaing thet same thing?

      The better question is if Neal was played by Dylan (Baelfire's actor), would you be saying the same thing? Dylan would be closer to 22 than Michael was, so that would be more accurate how he would have looked at the age of that scene.

      Right now, Dylan Schmid is 18. So when Tallahassee was filmed he would have been around 13. Do you honestly think a 13 year old can pull off 23?

      also sidenot that has ntohing to do with this but annoys me: Dylan is 18 now, so when filming young Bae in season 1 he'd have been 11/12, despite Bae himself being 14.

      I think MRJ was fine because 33 playing 23 isn't that awful and adults can be dressed down to look younger. But there is no way in hell Dylan could pull off 22/23.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Aine1989 wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      Lady Junky wrote:
      I love how all Emma "fans" keep acting like she was the dumbest character of the entire show just to prove their point x)

      I'm sorry Emilian but: "Especially if the teenager in question is a homeless runaway with a low education level and possibly not knowing the full risks of unprotected sex." I just find that VERY insulting for Emma's character. Emma NEVER EVER proved or showed that she had a low education level or anything. She has always showed that she was very intelligent, very capable of, and knowing exactly what to do in some situations.

      DeviousPeep explained everything. Emma was 17, she was completely able to know what she was doing and to take care of herself. She was completely able to leave by herself already. So, let's not act like she was dumb or not understanding what she was doing with Neal.

      She clearly was happy with Neal, and seeing how the character was written, I just doubt that he would force her into sex. Neal always loved Emma. Deeply. He never hurt her by himself or on purpose. They were both in love with each other.

      (lol yes bc letting her go to jail didn't hurt her in any way whatsoever)

      No one is saying Emma is dumb, so stop putting words in our mouths. We are saying that adults having relationships with teenagers is wrong. If Emma had been played by Abby Ross (or another teen actress bc Abby was like 14 when Tallahassee was filmed), would you be syaing thet same thing?

      The better question is if Neal was played by Dylan (Baelfire's actor), would you be saying the same thing? Dylan would be closer to 22 than Michael was, so that would be more accurate how he would have looked at the age of that scene.
      Right now, Dylan Schmid is 18. So when Tallahassee was filmed he would have been around 13. Do you honestly think a 13 year old can pull off 23?

      also sidenot that has ntohing to do with this but annoys me: Dylan is 18 now, so when filming young Bae in season 1 he'd have been 11/12, despite Bae himself being 14.

      I think MRJ was fine because 33 playing 23 isn't that awful and adults can be dressed down to look younger. But there is no way in hell Dylan could pull off 22/23.

      So if Michael playing 22 was okay, why would you not want Jen to play 17? That is a similar amount of difference. But you want Emma to be played by like a 14 year old, so Neal can look like a 40 year old creeper. If they were going to have Emma be played by a younger actor, Neal should have been as well, because, despite your protest, 17 and 22 aren't that different in age.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • The average 23 year old:

      Has probably finished high school and had/has some form of employment

      Probably lives at least semi-independently if not totally independently

      The average 17 year old

      Is still in high school

      Has either not had a job or has a part time job

      Still dependent on someone, be it a parent or guardian (we see this is not the case with Emma because she is homeless)

      See the difference? 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Aine1989 wrote:
      The average 23 year old:

      Has probably finished high school and had/has some form of employment

      Probably lives at least semi-independently if not totally independently

      The average 17 year old

      Is still in high school

      Has either not had a job or has a part time job

      Still dependent on someone, be it a parent or guardian (we see this is not the case with Emma because she is homeless)

      See the difference? 

      Neither Neal or Emma were "average" though. Furthurmore, you are giving 23 year olds way too much credit. I don't know what country you live in, but here in USA, most 23 year olds still live at home when not at college. No one can get a decent job to live independantly.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      The average 23 year old:Has probably finished high school and had/has some form of employment

      Probably lives at least semi-independently if not totally independently

      The average 17 year old

      Is still in high school

      Has either not had a job or has a part time job

      Still dependent on someone, be it a parent or guardian (we see this is not the case with Emma because she is homeless)

      See the difference? 

      Neither Neal or Emma were "average" though. Furthurmore, you are giving 23 year olds way too much credit. I don't know what country you live in, but here in USA, most 23 year olds still live at home when not at college. No one can get a decent job to live independantly.

      Hence why I said "semi independently". My brother is 22, 23 in May, and he lives semi-independently, in a house he and his friends rent, he does his own shopping, searches for houses and jobs etc.

      I'm not saying 23 year olds are amazingly independent but they are much more mature than school age kids.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • This conversation happened in "Price of Gold".

      Emma: I was 18.

      Ashley: When you had a kid?

      Emma: Yeah.

      But this presents conflicting infromation because for Emma to be 18, Henry would've had been born sometime between October 24th, 2001- March of 2002. Henry told Emma he was 10 in the Pilot but at the maximum age he could've been would 9 and by the time of "The Cricket Game" Henry turned 11 and that episode takes place in March. I've came to conlusion that Henry lied about his age and Emma conceived Henry 3/4 months before her 18th birthday. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • AJDSOUAT wrote:
      This conversation happened in "Price of Gold".

      Emma: I was 18.

      Ashley: When you had a kid?

      Emma: Yeah.

      But this presents conflicting infromation because for Emma to be 18, Henry would've had been born sometime between October 24th, 2001- March of 2002. Henry told Emma he was 10 in the Pilot but at the maximum age he could've been would 9 and by the time of "The Cricket Game" Henry turned 11 and that episode takes place in March. I've came to conlusion that Henry lied about his age and Emma conceived Henry 3/4 months before her 18th birthday. 

      So Henry lied about his age and yet Neal was still able to work out that he was his? And Emma was still able to work out he was hers? And that means he hit puberty at 10. And not only did he lie about his age, but so did Regina and Emma, who both reference Henry's age.

      There is also the conclusion that Emma lied about her age slightly to save some dignity in front of a total stranger.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Okay, so yes my conclusion is flawed, so forget that but why are basing his age of a poster we saw for what like 2 seconds? I mean it said his name was Neal Cassidy when in actuality his name was Baelfire and he was born in the Enchanted Forest NOT New Jersey. So makes you think he was actually 22 or 23. 

      Also, why did start this thread when you had already started a thread on the same topic? 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • AJDSOUAT wrote:
      Okay, so yes my conclusion is flawed, so forget that but why are basing his age of a poster we saw for what like 2 seconds? I mean it said his name was Neal Cassidy when in actuality his name was Baelfire and he was born in the Enchanted Forest NOT New Jersey. So makes you think he was actually 22 or 23. 

      Also, why did start this thread when you had already started a thread on the same topic? 

      Because the most logical conclusion is that Bae landed in our world and was picked up by social servies and given an ID close to his own age. Also he had a job in a high end jewellery place, which would not be in the business of hiring teen janitors.

      The other thread got closed on the basis of "needless character bash" and it was a year ago.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Aine1989 wrote:
      Touli2 wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote: So here is what we know:

      -Emma was either 16 or 17 depending on which birthday you believe for Henry.

      -When they were together, Emma and Neal were in Oregon, where the age of consent is 18.

      -Neal was biologically 22/23, because of the age on the wanted poster. However he was much older due to his time spent on Neverland.

      Im pretty sure Neal's age when he dated and had sex with Emma has never been stated. What wanted poster are you reffering to? Can you show me it?

      Im also pretty sure Emma's age at the time she dated and had sex with Neal has never been stated.

      http://anti--swanfire.tumblr.com/post/102230256986/a-few-anons-asked-me-if-i-could-post-a-picture-of

      The second picture shows the wanted poster, which lists Neal's DoB as March 1977.

      Now before everyone goes "AHHAHHHH BUT THE POSTER WAS FALSE" the most likely scenario is that when Bae landed in the LWM he was picked up by social services and given a date of birth close to his own ie. if he was 15, he would have landed in the LWM in 1992, and so been given 1977 as the birth year. WHich is the most liekly scenario. In any case, the poster was put there and never contradicted to show us how old he was.

      They didn't need to state Emma's age. Henry was 10 years and 2 months (or 6 months depending on which birthday you believe) on her 28th birthday, I am pretty sure the writers thought you could work it out from there.

      Okay, so Nealfire was born on March 23 1977. You get that point. However I dont believe that wraps up this discussion. To my knowledge we were never told the dates of the time period Emma and Neal dated and had sex. 

      Is it ever stated how old Henry was on Emma's 28th birthday? I do not recall it ever being. Please show me where the show states Henry's age on Emma's 28th birthday. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Lady Junky wrote:

      Emillian Swanones wrote:

      Lady Junky wrote:
      I love how all Emma "fans" keep acting like she was the dumbest character of the entire show just to prove their point x)

      I'm sorry Emilian but: "Especially if the teenager in question is a homeless runaway with a low education level and possibly not knowing the full risks of unprotected sex." I just find that VERY insulting for Emma's character. Emma NEVER EVER proved or showed that she had a low education level or anything. She has always showed that she was very intelligent, very capable of, and knowing exactly what to do in some situations.

      DeviousPeep explained everything. Emma was 17, she was completely able to know what she was doing and to take care of herself. She was completely able to leave by herself already. So, let's not act like she was dumb or not understanding what she was doing with Neal.

      She clearly was happy with Neal, and seeing how the character was written, I just doubt that he would force her into sex. Neal always loved Emma. Deeply. He never hurt her by himself or on purpose. They were both in love with each other.

      I mean a low education level in that she is almost certainly a high school drop out based on her being under 17 when she ran away, not her maturity level. It's probable that Emma got a GED while in prison, but that was after her relationship with Neal so it doesn't count when we're talking about their relationship. I am a huge Emma fan and I would never ever insult her character. Of course Emma is very intelligent and capable, but we do not know how much sexual education she had in school and if she learned anything on the streets. I am not acting like she is dumb, I am simply of the opinion that Neal, who is at least 8 to 9 years mentally and physically older than her would also know about the risks of unprotected sex and possibly more than she does. Yes, they were happy together and she would have agreed to have sex with him, but I still find it weird because of their age difference.
      If your main problem between them is the age difference... Honestly, I hear it and respect it. It is your opinion, and you have the right to think like that. No problem here.

      But, when the topic is about her "rape" by Neal... I can hear the unprotected sex stuff too.

      But having unprotected sex does not mean rape. That's ABSOLUTELY not the same thing.

      I don't think unprotected sex is rape, I just think that if they didn't choose to use protection  (since the protection could have failed) despite knowing it was available and the possible risks, then that shows a bit of carelessness/immaturity from one or both of them. My problem with them having unprotected sex isn't that it was unprotected, it was that it was an adult have unprotected sex with a minor. I find a sexual relationship between an adult and a minor to be wrong and I find an unprotected sexual relationship between an adult and a minor to be more wrong. If they both chose to have unprotected sex, I have less of an issue with it because even though it was careless, it was their choice. But since we don't know the nature of the unprotectedness, it's equally possible that Neal convinced Emma not to use protection despite her wanting to. I'm not saying this is what is happened, though, just that it is a possibility I have a serious issue with. It's also just as likely that Emma convinced Neal not to use protection. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Touli2 wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      Touli2 wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote: So here is what we know:

      -Emma was either 16 or 17 depending on which birthday you believe for Henry.

      -When they were together, Emma and Neal were in Oregon, where the age of consent is 18.

      -Neal was biologically 22/23, because of the age on the wanted poster. However he was much older due to his time spent on Neverland.

      Im pretty sure Neal's age when he dated and had sex with Emma has never been stated. What wanted poster are you reffering to? Can you show me it?

      Im also pretty sure Emma's age at the time she dated and had sex with Neal has never been stated.

      http://anti--swanfire.tumblr.com/post/102230256986/a-few-anons-asked-me-if-i-could-post-a-picture-ofThe second picture shows the wanted poster, which lists Neal's DoB as March 1977.

      Now before everyone goes "AHHAHHHH BUT THE POSTER WAS FALSE" the most likely scenario is that when Bae landed in the LWM he was picked up by social services and given a date of birth close to his own ie. if he was 15, he would have landed in the LWM in 1992, and so been given 1977 as the birth year. WHich is the most liekly scenario. In any case, the poster was put there and never contradicted to show us how old he was.

      They didn't need to state Emma's age. Henry was 10 years and 2 months (or 6 months depending on which birthday you believe) on her 28th birthday, I am pretty sure the writers thought you could work it out from there.

      Okay, so Nealfire was born on March 23 1977. You get that point. However I dont believe that wraps up this discussion. To my knowledge we were never told the dates of the time period Emma and Neal dated and had sex. 

      Is it ever stated how old Henry was on Emma's 28th birthday? I do not recall it ever being. Please show me where the show states Henry's age on Emma's 28th birthday. 

      "Ten years ago did you give a baby up for adoption?"

      "Ms Swan you made a decision ten years ago and in the last deacade while you've been doing...."

      Three times, in the first episode it is confirmed Henry was already 10 on Emma's 28th birthday.

      And then in 3x11

      "I have ten years of soothing his nightmares under my belt."

      Implying Henry was 10 in the pilot, before Emma came into his life.

      Also worth noting in 3b Emma would be 29 and she states that Henry is 12.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Aine1989 wrote:

      Touli2 wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote: So here is what we know:

      -Emma was either 16 or 17 depending on which birthday you believe for Henry.

      -When they were together, Emma and Neal were in Oregon, where the age of consent is 18.

      -Neal was biologically 22/23, because of the age on the wanted poster. However he was much older due to his time spent on Neverland.

      Im pretty sure Neal's age when he dated and had sex with Emma has never been stated. What wanted poster are you reffering to? Can you show me it?

      Im also pretty sure Emma's age at the time she dated and had sex with Neal has never been stated.

      http://anti--swanfire.tumblr.com/post/102230256986/a-few-anons-asked-me-if-i-could-post-a-picture-of

      The second picture shows the wanted poster, which lists Neal's DoB as March 1977.

      Now before everyone goes "AHHAHHHH BUT THE POSTER WAS FALSE" the most likely scenario is that when Bae landed in the LWM he was picked up by social services and given a date of birth close to his own ie. if he was 15, he would have landed in the LWM in 1992, and so been given 1977 as the birth year. WHich is the most liekly scenario. In any case, the poster was put there and never contradicted to show us how old he was.

      They didn't need to state Emma's age. Henry was 10 years and 2 months (or 6 months depending on which birthday you believe) on her 28th birthday, I am pretty sure the writers thought you could work it out from there.

      And you seriously expect us to give any credit to your opinion when you're literally proving what I said?

      Come on! Your tumblr source is LITERALLY "anti--swanfire"!

      You're just trying to create a fake problem out of nothing just to create conflict and to demonize Neal because, let's say it clearly, you're just hating on him. Your only point is to bash Neal for whatever reasons.

      Just like you're saying domestic abuse is an ok thing because you hate Rumple. Just like you ignore 7 years of character development because you hate Regina.

      Hating for the sake of hating has zero value in a discussion. Nothing. Zero. There is no point to even try to discuss that with you. There is nothing constructive here.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I just want to point out that Bae/Neal was physically like 20-22 years old, but mentally he was like 200 years old. The show is pretty clear on this

      Saying that he didn't "mentally" age while in Neverland is like saying his brain stopped working or something. And we all know he learned stuff like astronomy and such, as shown in Baelfire's cave.

      Even Hook refers himself as a "200 years old" man, but he clearly doesn't physically look that age. And has said stuff like "I know better because I'm a 200 years old man" 

      But I have to say that I've also pointed out (several times) that Hook still acts like a teenager, but that's just lazy writing

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • 8Rob wrote:
      I just want to point out that Bae/Neal was physically like 20-22 years old, but mentally he was like 200 years old. The show is pretty clear on this

      Saying that he didn't "mentally" age while in Neverland is like saying his brain stopped working or something. And we all know he learned stuff like astronomy and such, as shown in Baelfire's cave.

      Even Hook refers himself as a "200 years old" man, but he clearly doesn't physically look that age. And has said stuff like "I know better because I'm a 200 years old man" 

      But I have to say that I've also pointed out (several times) that Hook still acts like a teenager, but that's just lazy writing

      Not entirely sure why you're bringing Hook into this. Unless he and Neal had a relationship we're unaware of.

      Acting like a teenager sometimes =/= being a teenger.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Lady Junky wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote:

      Touli2 wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote: So here is what we know:

      -Emma was either 16 or 17 depending on which birthday you believe for Henry.

      -When they were together, Emma and Neal were in Oregon, where the age of consent is 18.

      -Neal was biologically 22/23, because of the age on the wanted poster. However he was much older due to his time spent on Neverland.

      Im pretty sure Neal's age when he dated and had sex with Emma has never been stated. What wanted poster are you reffering to? Can you show me it?

      Im also pretty sure Emma's age at the time she dated and had sex with Neal has never been stated.

      http://anti--swanfire.tumblr.com/post/102230256986/a-few-anons-asked-me-if-i-could-post-a-picture-of

      The second picture shows the wanted poster, which lists Neal's DoB as March 1977.

      Now before everyone goes "AHHAHHHH BUT THE POSTER WAS FALSE" the most likely scenario is that when Bae landed in the LWM he was picked up by social services and given a date of birth close to his own ie. if he was 15, he would have landed in the LWM in 1992, and so been given 1977 as the birth year. WHich is the most liekly scenario. In any case, the poster was put there and never contradicted to show us how old he was.

      They didn't need to state Emma's age. Henry was 10 years and 2 months (or 6 months depending on which birthday you believe) on her 28th birthday, I am pretty sure the writers thought you could work it out from there.

      And you seriously expect us to give any credit to your opinion when you're literally proving what I said?

      Come on! Your tumblr source is LITERALLY "anti--swanfire"!

      You're just trying to create a fake problem out of nothing just to create conflict and to demonize Neal because, let's say it clearly, you're just hating on him. Your only point is to bash Neal for whatever reasons.

      Just like you're saying domestic abuse is an ok thing because you hate Rumple. Just like you ignore 7 years of character development because you hate Regina.

      Hating for the sake of hating has zero value in a discussion. Nothing. Zero. There is no point to even try to discuss that with you. There is nothing constructive here.

      I say again in case you missed it the first time, this is a discussion I moved from an originally anti Killian thread.

      You asked for proof from the show of Neal and Emma's ages; I provided it. Not sure how that means I "proved what you said".

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • It's an example

      Hook was also in Neverland several years-like Baelfire- and says he is 200 years old, even if he looks like a man in his 30s

      So, even if Baelfire looked like a 20 y.o. man, he was actually around 190 years old or such

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Aine1989 wrote:

      Lady Junky wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote:

      Touli2 wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote: So here is what we know:

      -Emma was either 16 or 17 depending on which birthday you believe for Henry.

      -When they were together, Emma and Neal were in Oregon, where the age of consent is 18.

      -Neal was biologically 22/23, because of the age on the wanted poster. However he was much older due to his time spent on Neverland.

      Im pretty sure Neal's age when he dated and had sex with Emma has never been stated. What wanted poster are you reffering to? Can you show me it?

      Im also pretty sure Emma's age at the time she dated and had sex with Neal has never been stated.

      http://anti--swanfire.tumblr.com/post/102230256986/a-few-anons-asked-me-if-i-could-post-a-picture-of

      The second picture shows the wanted poster, which lists Neal's DoB as March 1977.

      Now before everyone goes "AHHAHHHH BUT THE POSTER WAS FALSE" the most likely scenario is that when Bae landed in the LWM he was picked up by social services and given a date of birth close to his own ie. if he was 15, he would have landed in the LWM in 1992, and so been given 1977 as the birth year. WHich is the most liekly scenario. In any case, the poster was put there and never contradicted to show us how old he was.

      They didn't need to state Emma's age. Henry was 10 years and 2 months (or 6 months depending on which birthday you believe) on her 28th birthday, I am pretty sure the writers thought you could work it out from there.

      And you seriously expect us to give any credit to your opinion when you're literally proving what I said?

      Come on! Your tumblr source is LITERALLY "anti--swanfire"!

      You're just trying to create a fake problem out of nothing just to create conflict and to demonize Neal because, let's say it clearly, you're just hating on him. Your only point is to bash Neal for whatever reasons.

      Just like you're saying domestic abuse is an ok thing because you hate Rumple. Just like you ignore 7 years of character development because you hate Regina.

      Hating for the sake of hating has zero value in a discussion. Nothing. Zero. There is no point to even try to discuss that with you. There is nothing constructive here.

      I say again in case you missed it the first time, this is a discussion I moved from an originally anti Killian thread.

      You asked for proof from the show of Neal and Emma's ages; I provided it. Not sure how that means I "proved what you said".

      It wasn’t necessarily an anti-Killian thread. It was a discussion on whether he had committed rape when he was a pirate, based on evidence revealed to the audience through dialogue.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Aine1989 wrote:
      Touli2 wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      Touli2 wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote: So here is what we know:

      -Emma was either 16 or 17 depending on which birthday you believe for Henry.

      -When they were together, Emma and Neal were in Oregon, where the age of consent is 18.

      -Neal was biologically 22/23, because of the age on the wanted poster. However he was much older due to his time spent on Neverland.

      Im pretty sure Neal's age when he dated and had sex with Emma has never been stated. What wanted poster are you reffering to? Can you show me it?

      Im also pretty sure Emma's age at the time she dated and had sex with Neal has never been stated.

      http://anti--swanfire.tumblr.com/post/102230256986/a-few-anons-asked-me-if-i-could-post-a-picture-ofThe second picture shows the wanted poster, which lists Neal's DoB as March 1977.

      Now before everyone goes "AHHAHHHH BUT THE POSTER WAS FALSE" the most likely scenario is that when Bae landed in the LWM he was picked up by social services and given a date of birth close to his own ie. if he was 15, he would have landed in the LWM in 1992, and so been given 1977 as the birth year. WHich is the most liekly scenario. In any case, the poster was put there and never contradicted to show us how old he was.

      They didn't need to state Emma's age. Henry was 10 years and 2 months (or 6 months depending on which birthday you believe) on her 28th birthday, I am pretty sure the writers thought you could work it out from there.

      Okay, so Nealfire was born on March 23 1977. You get that point. However I dont believe that wraps up this discussion. To my knowledge we were never told the dates of the time period Emma and Neal dated and had sex. 

      Is it ever stated how old Henry was on Emma's 28th birthday? I do not recall it ever being. Please show me where the show states Henry's age on Emma's 28th birthday. 

      "Ten years ago did you give a baby up for adoption?"

      "Ms Swan you made a decision ten years ago and in the last deacade while you've been doing...."

      Three times, in the first episode it is confirmed Henry was already 10 on Emma's 28th birthday.

      And then in 3x11

      "I have ten years of soothing his nightmares under my belt."

      Implying Henry was 10 in the pilot, before Emma came into his life.

      Also worth noting in 3b Emma would be 29 and she states that Henry is 12.

      Okilie dokilie then. I will factcheck this later, for now I will take you at your word. 

      So when Emma gave birth to Henry she was 17 at youngest

      Here is what we know:

      - Nealfire was born on March 23 1977

      - Emma was either 17 or 18 when she gave birth to Henry 

      ​​​​​However this is not enough information to deduce if Nealfire was being a paedophile by dating and having sex with Emma. 

      We still need to find out:


      - Was Emma 17 or 18  when she dated and had sex with Neal 

      - How old was Neal when he dated and had sex with Emma

      Those two we still dont know. If we are going to deduce if Nealfire was a paedophile, we need those facts, until we have them we cannot know.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • For the argument that he was mentally years older because of his time in Neverland, I personally don't see that as an issue, because alot of the Lost Boys shown in Neverand were, for the most part, only surrounded by kids, and still behaved like children (except Pan for obvious reasons).

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Touli2 wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote:
      Touli2 wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      Touli2 wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote: So here is what we know:

      -Emma was either 16 or 17 depending on which birthday you believe for Henry.

      -When they were together, Emma and Neal were in Oregon, where the age of consent is 18.

      -Neal was biologically 22/23, because of the age on the wanted poster. However he was much older due to his time spent on Neverland.

      Im pretty sure Neal's age when he dated and had sex with Emma has never been stated. What wanted poster are you reffering to? Can you show me it?

      Im also pretty sure Emma's age at the time she dated and had sex with Neal has never been stated.

      http://anti--swanfire.tumblr.com/post/102230256986/a-few-anons-asked-me-if-i-could-post-a-picture-ofThe second picture shows the wanted poster, which lists Neal's DoB as March 1977.

      Now before everyone goes "AHHAHHHH BUT THE POSTER WAS FALSE" the most likely scenario is that when Bae landed in the LWM he was picked up by social services and given a date of birth close to his own ie. if he was 15, he would have landed in the LWM in 1992, and so been given 1977 as the birth year. WHich is the most liekly scenario. In any case, the poster was put there and never contradicted to show us how old he was.

      They didn't need to state Emma's age. Henry was 10 years and 2 months (or 6 months depending on which birthday you believe) on her 28th birthday, I am pretty sure the writers thought you could work it out from there.

      Okay, so Nealfire was born on March 23 1977. You get that point. However I dont believe that wraps up this discussion. To my knowledge we were never told the dates of the time period Emma and Neal dated and had sex. 

      Is it ever stated how old Henry was on Emma's 28th birthday? I do not recall it ever being. Please show me where the show states Henry's age on Emma's 28th birthday. 

      "Ten years ago did you give a baby up for adoption?"

      "Ms Swan you made a decision ten years ago and in the last deacade while you've been doing...."

      Three times, in the first episode it is confirmed Henry was already 10 on Emma's 28th birthday.

      And then in 3x11

      "I have ten years of soothing his nightmares under my belt."

      Implying Henry was 10 in the pilot, before Emma came into his life.

      Also worth noting in 3b Emma would be 29 and she states that Henry is 12.

      Okilie dokilie then. I will factcheck this later, for now I will take you at your word. 

      So when Emma gave birth to Henry she was 17 at youngest

      Here is what we know:

      - Nealfire was born on March 23 1977

      - Emma was either 17 or 18 when she gave birth to Henry 

      ​​​​​However this is not enough information to deduce if Nealfire was being a paedophile by dating and having sex with Emma. 

      We still need to find out:


      - Was Emma 17 or 18  when she dated and had sex with Neal 

      - How old was Neal when he dated and had sex with Emma

      Those two we still dont know. If we are going to deduce if Nealfire was a paedophile, we need those facts, until we have them we cannot know.

      He wasn’t born in 1977 actually, but that was his estimated birth date he gave to hide his actual age.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • TheRose123 wrote:

      Touli2 wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote:
      Touli2 wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      Touli2 wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote: So here is what we know:

      -Emma was either 16 or 17 depending on which birthday you believe for Henry.

      -When they were together, Emma and Neal were in Oregon, where the age of consent is 18.

      -Neal was biologically 22/23, because of the age on the wanted poster. However he was much older due to his time spent on Neverland.

      Im pretty sure Neal's age when he dated and had sex with Emma has never been stated. What wanted poster are you reffering to? Can you show me it?

      Im also pretty sure Emma's age at the time she dated and had sex with Neal has never been stated.

      http://anti--swanfire.tumblr.com/post/102230256986/a-few-anons-asked-me-if-i-could-post-a-picture-ofThe second picture shows the wanted poster, which lists Neal's DoB as March 1977.

      Now before everyone goes "AHHAHHHH BUT THE POSTER WAS FALSE" the most likely scenario is that when Bae landed in the LWM he was picked up by social services and given a date of birth close to his own ie. if he was 15, he would have landed in the LWM in 1992, and so been given 1977 as the birth year. WHich is the most liekly scenario. In any case, the poster was put there and never contradicted to show us how old he was.

      They didn't need to state Emma's age. Henry was 10 years and 2 months (or 6 months depending on which birthday you believe) on her 28th birthday, I am pretty sure the writers thought you could work it out from there.

      Okay, so Nealfire was born on March 23 1977. You get that point. However I dont believe that wraps up this discussion. To my knowledge we were never told the dates of the time period Emma and Neal dated and had sex. 

      Is it ever stated how old Henry was on Emma's 28th birthday? I do not recall it ever being. Please show me where the show states Henry's age on Emma's 28th birthday. 

      "Ten years ago did you give a baby up for adoption?"

      "Ms Swan you made a decision ten years ago and in the last deacade while you've been doing...."

      Three times, in the first episode it is confirmed Henry was already 10 on Emma's 28th birthday.

      And then in 3x11

      "I have ten years of soothing his nightmares under my belt."

      Implying Henry was 10 in the pilot, before Emma came into his life.

      Also worth noting in 3b Emma would be 29 and she states that Henry is 12.

      Okilie dokilie then. I will factcheck this later, for now I will take you at your word. 

      So when Emma gave birth to Henry she was 17 at youngest

      Here is what we know:

      - Nealfire was born on March 23 1977

      - Emma was either 17 or 18 when she gave birth to Henry 

      ​​​​​However this is not enough information to deduce if Nealfire was being a paedophile by dating and having sex with Emma. 

      We still need to find out:


      - Was Emma 17 or 18  when she dated and had sex with Neal 

      - How old was Neal when he dated and had sex with Emma

      Those two we still dont know. If we are going to deduce if Nealfire was a paedophile, we need those facts, until we have them we cannot know.

      He wasn’t born in 1977 actually, but that was his estimated birth date he gave to hide his actual age.

      He was born in 1977.  Did you not see the wanted poster?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • It is not physcially possible for Emma to have been 18 when she dated Neal. Because as I have shown, it is stated three times within the first episode, Henry was already 10 when she was still 27.

      If Emma was 18 when she was with Neal, then Henry would have to be 8 or 9 in the pilot. And we know that is nto the case.

      Unless you want to argue that Neal is in fact, not Henry's father, but that opens up so many other discussions.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Touli2 wrote:

      TheRose123 wrote:

      Touli2 wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote:
      Touli2 wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      Touli2 wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote: So here is what we know:

      -Emma was either 16 or 17 depending on which birthday you believe for Henry.

      -When they were together, Emma and Neal were in Oregon, where the age of consent is 18.

      -Neal was biologically 22/23, because of the age on the wanted poster. However he was much older due to his time spent on Neverland.

      Im pretty sure Neal's age when he dated and had sex with Emma has never been stated. What wanted poster are you reffering to? Can you show me it?

      Im also pretty sure Emma's age at the time she dated and had sex with Neal has never been stated.

      http://anti--swanfire.tumblr.com/post/102230256986/a-few-anons-asked-me-if-i-could-post-a-picture-ofThe second picture shows the wanted poster, which lists Neal's DoB as March 1977.

      Now before everyone goes "AHHAHHHH BUT THE POSTER WAS FALSE" the most likely scenario is that when Bae landed in the LWM he was picked up by social services and given a date of birth close to his own ie. if he was 15, he would have landed in the LWM in 1992, and so been given 1977 as the birth year. WHich is the most liekly scenario. In any case, the poster was put there and never contradicted to show us how old he was.

      They didn't need to state Emma's age. Henry was 10 years and 2 months (or 6 months depending on which birthday you believe) on her 28th birthday, I am pretty sure the writers thought you could work it out from there.

      Okay, so Nealfire was born on March 23 1977. You get that point. However I dont believe that wraps up this discussion. To my knowledge we were never told the dates of the time period Emma and Neal dated and had sex. 

      Is it ever stated how old Henry was on Emma's 28th birthday? I do not recall it ever being. Please show me where the show states Henry's age on Emma's 28th birthday. 

      "Ten years ago did you give a baby up for adoption?"

      "Ms Swan you made a decision ten years ago and in the last deacade while you've been doing...."

      Three times, in the first episode it is confirmed Henry was already 10 on Emma's 28th birthday.

      And then in 3x11

      "I have ten years of soothing his nightmares under my belt."

      Implying Henry was 10 in the pilot, before Emma came into his life.

      Also worth noting in 3b Emma would be 29 and she states that Henry is 12.

      Okilie dokilie then. I will factcheck this later, for now I will take you at your word. 

      So when Emma gave birth to Henry she was 17 at youngest

      Here is what we know:

      - Nealfire was born on March 23 1977

      - Emma was either 17 or 18 when she gave birth to Henry 

      ​​​​​However this is not enough information to deduce if Nealfire was being a paedophile by dating and having sex with Emma. 

      We still need to find out:


      - Was Emma 17 or 18  when she dated and had sex with Neal 

      - How old was Neal when he dated and had sex with Emma

      Those two we still dont know. If we are going to deduce if Nealfire was a paedophile, we need those facts, until we have them we cannot know.

      He wasn’t born in 1977 actually, but that was his estimated birth date he gave to hide his actual age.

      He was born in 1977.  Did you not see the wanted poster?

      He is over 200 years old, and lived in Victorian England. Physically he appears to have been born around that time but in actuality he was born in the 1800s.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • We know for a fact that Bae is Henry's father because of the blood magic thing we saw Rumple using in 2x22

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • 8Rob wrote:
      We know for a fact that Bae is Henry's father because of the blood magic thing we saw Rumple using in 2x22

      That part was just me being sarcastic and extra

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Aine1989 wrote:
      It is not physcially possible for Emma to have been 18 when she dated Neal. Because as I have shown, it is stated three times within the first episode, Henry was already 10 when she was still 27.

      If Emma was 18 when she was with Neal, then Henry would have to be 8 or 9 in the pilot. And we know that is nto the case.

      Unless you want to argue that Neal is in fact, not Henry's father, but that opens up so many other discussions.

      Thinking about it now I see your logic. If Henry's birthday is before Emma's then yes, Emma was 17 when she gave birth. However here is one other possibility:

      - Henry's birthday is actually later in the year than Emma's birthday. Henry was 10 when Emma was 28 yes. but this could be because Henry's birthday is later in the year than Emma's.

      This would mean Emma has to have been 18 when she gave birth to Henry. 

      ​​​​​​

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • AJDSOUAT wrote: This conversation happened in "Price of Gold".

      Emma: I was 18.

      Ashley: When you had a kid?

      Emma: Yeah.

      But this presents conflicting infromation because for Emma to be 18, Henry would've had been born sometime between October 24th, 2001- March of 2002. Henry told Emma he was 10 in the Pilot but at the maximum age he could've been would 9 and by the time of "The Cricket Game" Henry turned 11 and that episode takes place in March. I've came to conlusion that Henry lied about his age and Emma conceived Henry 3/4 months before her 18th birthday. 

      It does not present any conflicting information. First of all, it is never stated that "The Cricket Game" takes place in March - it could easily take place after August 15, Henry's birthday (read my posts here, here and here for an explanation). Henry's parents met in 2001 (this is covered in my post here), so Henry was obviously conceived in early 2001 and born a few weeks too soon. No conflicting info.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • As for Emma saying that she was 18 when she had Henry, well, she was obviously rounding up her age with two months for convenience. People often do that.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Touli2 wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      It is not physcially possible for Emma to have been 18 when she dated Neal. Because as I have shown, it is stated three times within the first episode, Henry was already 10 when she was still 27.

      If Emma was 18 when she was with Neal, then Henry would have to be 8 or 9 in the pilot. And we know that is nto the case.

      Unless you want to argue that Neal is in fact, not Henry's father, but that opens up so many other discussions.

      Thinking about it now I see your logic. If Henry's birthday is before Emma's then yes, Emma was 17 when she gave birth. However here is one other possibility:

      - Henry's birthday is actually later in the year than Emma's birthday. Henry was 10 when Emma was 28 yes. but this could be because Henry's birthday is later in the year than Emma's.

      This would mean Emma has to have been 18 when she gave birth to Henry. 

      ​​​​​​

      No. No that is not possible.

      We see in the pilot Henry is 10 on Emma's 28th birthday. Meaning he turned 10 when she was still 27. 27-10=17.

      For the sake of avoiding argument I'll go with Henry's birthday being in August. August comes before October.

      If Henry's birthday was later in the year than Emma's, he'd have been 9 in the pilot. Which he is not because it's stated 3 times in the pilot he is 10

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Aine1989 wrote:
      Touli2 wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      It is not physcially possible for Emma to have been 18 when she dated Neal. Because as I have shown, it is stated three times within the first episode, Henry was already 10 when she was still 27.

      If Emma was 18 when she was with Neal, then Henry would have to be 8 or 9 in the pilot. And we know that is nto the case.

      Unless you want to argue that Neal is in fact, not Henry's father, but that opens up so many other discussions.

      Thinking about it now I see your logic. If Henry's birthday is before Emma's then yes, Emma was 17 when she gave birth. However here is one other possibility:

      - Henry's birthday is actually later in the year than Emma's birthday. Henry was 10 when Emma was 28 yes. but this could be because Henry's birthday is later in the year than Emma's.

      This would mean Emma has to have been 18 when she gave birth to Henry. 

      ​​​​​​

      No. No that is not possible.

      We see in the pilot Henry is 10 on Emma's 28th birthday. Meaning he turned 10 when she was still 27. 27-10=17.

      For the sake of avoiding argument I'll go with Henry's birthday being in August. August comes before October.

      If Henry's birthday was later in the year than Emma's, he'd have been 9 in the pilot. Which he is not because it's stated 3 times in the pilot he is 10

      No I meant, what if Henry's birthday hadn't been yet that year, so later in the year his birthday would come and he would be 11?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Touli2 wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      Touli2 wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      It is not physcially possible for Emma to have been 18 when she dated Neal. Because as I have shown, it is stated three times within the first episode, Henry was already 10 when she was still 27.

      If Emma was 18 when she was with Neal, then Henry would have to be 8 or 9 in the pilot. And we know that is nto the case.

      Unless you want to argue that Neal is in fact, not Henry's father, but that opens up so many other discussions.

      Thinking about it now I see your logic. If Henry's birthday is before Emma's then yes, Emma was 17 when she gave birth. However here is one other possibility:

      - Henry's birthday is actually later in the year than Emma's birthday. Henry was 10 when Emma was 28 yes. but this could be because Henry's birthday is later in the year than Emma's.

      This would mean Emma has to have been 18 when she gave birth to Henry. 

      ​​​​​​

      No. No that is not possible.

      We see in the pilot Henry is 10 on Emma's 28th birthday. Meaning he turned 10 when she was still 27. 27-10=17.

      For the sake of avoiding argument I'll go with Henry's birthday being in August. August comes before October.

      If Henry's birthday was later in the year than Emma's, he'd have been 9 in the pilot. Which he is not because it's stated 3 times in the pilot he is 10

      No I meant, what if Henry's birthday hadn't been yet that year, so later in the year his birthday would come and he would be 11?

      oh wait no i see how the logic fails in that lol. my apologies.

      So Emma was 17 when she gave birth to Henry - fact. Doesn't prove Nealfire is a paedophile though as we still dont know his age when he dated and had sex with Emma.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Yes we do, see the wanted poster that says his age and consider his background. He had a job in a high end jewellery place at least a year if not moere before meeting Emma

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Touli2 wrote:

      Touli2 wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      Touli2 wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      It is not physcially possible for Emma to have been 18 when she dated Neal. Because as I have shown, it is stated three times within the first episode, Henry was already 10 when she was still 27.

      If Emma was 18 when she was with Neal, then Henry would have to be 8 or 9 in the pilot. And we know that is nto the case.

      Unless you want to argue that Neal is in fact, not Henry's father, but that opens up so many other discussions.

      Thinking about it now I see your logic. If Henry's birthday is before Emma's then yes, Emma was 17 when she gave birth. However here is one other possibility:

      - Henry's birthday is actually later in the year than Emma's birthday. Henry was 10 when Emma was 28 yes. but this could be because Henry's birthday is later in the year than Emma's.

      This would mean Emma has to have been 18 when she gave birth to Henry. 

      ​​​​​​

      No. No that is not possible.

      We see in the pilot Henry is 10 on Emma's 28th birthday. Meaning he turned 10 when she was still 27. 27-10=17.

      For the sake of avoiding argument I'll go with Henry's birthday being in August. August comes before October.

      If Henry's birthday was later in the year than Emma's, he'd have been 9 in the pilot. Which he is not because it's stated 3 times in the pilot he is 10

      No I meant, what if Henry's birthday hadn't been yet that year, so later in the year his birthday would come and he would be 11?

      oh wait no i see how the logic fails in that lol. my apologies.

      So Emma was 17 when she gave birth to Henry - fact. Doesn't prove Nealfire is a paedophile though as we still dont know his age when he dated and had sex with Emma.

      The argument is not that he is a pedophile but if their relationship was non-consensual as she was not legally allowed to consent at the age of 17 to someone who is much older than her.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Aine1989 wrote: Yes we do, see the wanted poster that says his age and consider his background. He had a job in a high end jewellery place at least a year if not moere before meeting Emma

      The wanted poster did not show his age only his date of birth. We are not given the dates of when Emma and Neal had sex so we cannot work out how old he was at the time.

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    • I may be mistaken, but I belive that in Oregon, two people can have consentual sex, if the age gap is no larger than three years. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • KyleBraxton
      KyleBraxton removed this reply because:
      I figured I'd put a response but I really don't want to be involved with this thread, however. xD
      09:25, February 22, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • Touli2 wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote: Yes we do, see the wanted poster that says his age and consider his background. He had a job in a high end jewellery place at least a year if not moere before meeting Emma

      The wanted poster did not show his age only his date of birth. We are not given the dates of when Emma and Neal had sex so we cannot work out how old he was at the time.

      Okay which is more likely:

      -Bae landed in the LWM, got picked up by social services, and was given a date of birth that roughly matched his real one, and then 8-9 years pass between him landing there and meeting Emma

      Or:

      -He managed to assimilate himself into a completely alien world in 3 years, which includded navigating the USA, knowing hwo to hotwire a car, knowing how to work a phone, knowing how to apply for jobs, all perfectly enough so that no one suspected a thing.

      -At 18 he was able to pass for 23 and no-one ever questioned it

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Lola987 wrote:
      I may be mistaken, but I belive that in Oregon, two people can have consentual sex, if the age gap is no larger than three years. 

      Yes, however Emma was 16/17 and he was 23, and that is a larger age gap that 3 years.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I believe this was why the previous version of the thread wasn’t going anywhere.

      75 posts in (with countless posts across several threads), users are still saying things like Emma was 16 or 16/17, when that is factually untrue, mathematically untrue, and has been discussed ad nauseum.

      If hundreds of posts have gone by and despite varied nuanced posts, falsehoods are still peddled, then...I don’t know. I hold no cards in this “fight” (don’t particular like Neal) and I thought otherwise before, but I really think this just some attack on a character that one hates.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Aine1989 wrote:
      Lola987 wrote:
      I may be mistaken, but I belive that in Oregon, two people can have consentual sex, if the age gap is no larger than three years. 
      Yes, however Emma was 16/17 and he was 23, and that is a larger age gap that 3 years.

      Emma was 17 and 10 months (so nearly 18) as has been proven to you countless times. Trying to keep saying she is younger to make your arguement sound more legitimate just proves that you know your arguement doesn't work with the actual facts.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      Lola987 wrote:
      I may be mistaken, but I belive that in Oregon, two people can have consentual sex, if the age gap is no larger than three years. 
      Yes, however Emma was 16/17 and he was 23, and that is a larger age gap that 3 years.
      Emma was 17 and 10 months (so nearly 18) as has been proven to you countless times. Trying to keep saying she is younger to make your arguement sound more legitimate just proves that you know your arguement doesn't work with the actual facts.

      Okay 17 then. 23-17=6. Which is still a larger age gap than 3 years. And she was 17 and 2 months. For Henry to have been born in August he'd have been conceived in December.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Aine1989 wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      Lola987 wrote:
      I may be mistaken, but I belive that in Oregon, two people can have consentual sex, if the age gap is no larger than three years. 
      Yes, however Emma was 16/17 and he was 23, and that is a larger age gap that 3 years.
      Emma was 17 and 10 months (so nearly 18) as has been proven to you countless times. Trying to keep saying she is younger to make your arguement sound more legitimate just proves that you know your arguement doesn't work with the actual facts.

      Okay 17 then. 23-17=6. Which is still a larger age gap than 3 years. And she was 17 and 2 months. For Henry to have been born in August he'd have been conceived in December.

      No, because his parents met in 2001. It is perfectly possible that Henry was conceived in early 2001 and born on August 15; he could have been born a few weeks prematurely.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Nightlily wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote:


      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      Lola987 wrote:
      I may be mistaken, but I belive that in Oregon, two people can have consentual sex, if the age gap is no larger than three years. 
      Yes, however Emma was 16/17 and he was 23, and that is a larger age gap that 3 years.
      Emma was 17 and 10 months (so nearly 18) as has been proven to you countless times. Trying to keep saying she is younger to make your arguement sound more legitimate just proves that you know your arguement doesn't work with the actual facts.
      Okay 17 then. 23-17=6. Which is still a larger age gap than 3 years.

      And she was 17 and 2 months. For Henry to have been born in August he'd have been conceived in December.

      No, because his parents met in 2001. It is perfectly possible that Henry was conceived in early 2001 and born on August 15; he could have been born a few weeks prematurely.

      It is also entirely possible that the 2001 title card was a mistake, sicne at that point the ouat-universe was 2 years behind reality (ie. season 3b was set in 2012 but filmed/aired in 2014).

      And even if Henry was born prematurely (which if he was I am pretty sure we would have been told or the doctors would have told Emma since a baby being born 2 months early may have problems and he'd have been moved to a NICU) that would make Emma 17 and 4 months when dating Neal. Which is still 17.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • What exactly are you trying to prove? Okay, we hate Neal. Are you happy now? Or this discussion is going last forever with pointless arguments?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Nightlily wrote:

      AJDSOUAT wrote: This conversation happened in "Price of Gold".

      Emma: I was 18.

      Ashley: When you had a kid?

      Emma: Yeah.

      But this presents conflicting infromation because for Emma to be 18, Henry would've had been born sometime between October 24th, 2001- March of 2002. Henry told Emma he was 10 in the Pilot but at the maximum age he could've been would 9 and by the time of "The Cricket Game" Henry turned 11 and that episode takes place in March. I've came to conlusion that Henry lied about his age and Emma conceived Henry 3/4 months before her 18th birthday. 

      It does not present any conflicting information. First of all, it is never stated that "The Cricket Game" takes place in March - it could easily take place after August 15, Henry's birthday (read my posts here, here and here for an explanation). Henry's parents met in 2001 (this is covered in my post here), so Henry was obviously conceived in early 2001 and born a few weeks too soon. No conflicting info.

      The present day events of "The Cricket Game" take place between episodes "Skin Deep" (Feb. 14th, 2012) and "The Queen is Dead" (Snow's Birthday|Winter 2012) and August isn't a month that falls between late Oct. through March 21st. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CadoDoan wrote: What exactly are you trying to prove? Okay, we hate Neal. Are you happy now? Or this discussion is going last forever with pointless arguments?

      This. Just that Neal is a "rapist" and that everyone should agree to that.

      And beware, she might come back to how Regina is the worst character ever, or defending Milah the domestic abuser after that.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • AJDSOUAT wrote:

      Nightlily wrote:

      AJDSOUAT wrote: This conversation happened in "Price of Gold".

      Emma: I was 18.

      Ashley: When you had a kid?

      Emma: Yeah.

      But this presents conflicting infromation because for Emma to be 18, Henry would've had been born sometime between October 24th, 2001- March of 2002. Henry told Emma he was 10 in the Pilot but at the maximum age he could've been would 9 and by the time of "The Cricket Game" Henry turned 11 and that episode takes place in March. I've came to conlusion that Henry lied about his age and Emma conceived Henry 3/4 months before her 18th birthday. 

      It does not present any conflicting information. First of all, it is never stated that "The Cricket Game" takes place in March - it could easily take place after August 15, Henry's birthday (read my posts here, here and here for an explanation). Henry's parents met in 2001 (this is covered in my post here), so Henry was obviously conceived in early 2001 and born a few weeks too soon. No conflicting info.

      The present day events of "The Cricket Game" take place between episodes "Skin Deep" (Feb. 14th, 2012) and "The Queen is Dead" (Snow's Birthday|Winter 2012) and August isn't a month that falls between late Oct. through March 21st. 

      Duh. Snow was born during the harshest winter in Fairy Tale Land, not our world.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Maybe, people in the Enchanted Forest don't use the Gregorian calender but we know without a doubt the events"Skin Deep" occured on Feb. 14th, 2012 and you're telling me "The Cricket Game" could take place after August 15th, 2012. There's no possible way there could be a 6 month gap between those episodes. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • AJDSOUAT wrote: Maybe, people in the Enchanted Forest don't use the Gregorian calender but we know without a doubt the events"Skin Deep" occured on Feb. 14th, 2012 and you're telling me "The Cricket Game" could take place after August 15th, 2012. There's no possible way there could be a 6 month gap between those episodes. 

      Actually, they do use the Gregorian calendar, according to the novels "Red's Untold Tale" and "Regina Rising" – but that doesn't mean their calendar coincides with our calendar. As for a 6 months gap, it is perfectly possible: Kathryn disappears sometime after Valentine's Day ("Skin Deep") in "What Happened to Frederick" and returns after a week in "The Stable Boy", according to a title card. "The Return" begins the day after Kathryn was found, but it is never stated how much time passed between "The Return" and the following episode, "The Stranger". In "The Stranger", Mary Margaret goes back to teaching at school and it is not entirely implausible that she could have waited several months to do so; she went through a horrible experience, which must have taken quite a toll on her. Also, in "Child of the Moon", David says to Ruby, "A few months ago, everyone thought Mary Margaret was guilty of murder", which suggests that several months have passed since Mary Margaret's ordeal.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Lady Junky wrote:

      CadoDoan wrote: What exactly are you trying to prove? Okay, we hate Neal. Are you happy now? Or this discussion is going last forever with pointless arguments?

      This. Just that Neal is a "rapist" and that everyone should agree to that.

      And beware, she might come back to how Regina is the worst character ever, or defending Milah the domestic abuser after that.

      Lady, if you disagree with Aine's views on Regina and Milah, you are free to say so, but comments like "beware, she might come back to..." are ill-mannered and picking on others. That is against our rules. Please remember that.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Hmm, that's intresting. That would explain why there are Halloween decorations at Granny's in "The Doctor".

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • AJDSOUAT wrote: Hmm, that's intresting. That would explain why there are Halloween decorations at Granny's in "The Doctor".

      Ah, no; those decorations were a goof, I'm afraid :-( Halloween takes place on October 31 and Emma's birthday is a week earlier. As we know, Emma was sent to our world when the Dark Curse was cast and she came to Storybrooke on her twenty-eight birthday (a major plot point in "Pilot"). However, a title card in "Queen of Hearts" (which takes place after "The Doctor") establishes that it's still 28 years since the curse was cast (as seen here), but the period of time between "Pilot" and S3E3 "Quite a Common Fairy" was less than a year (this is proven in "The Tower" when David states that it's been almost 30 years since Emma was born; since "The Tower" takes place one year after the first half of Season Three (as seen in "Going Home" - and the following episodes establish that twelve months pass during the time jump in this episode), this means that less than a year passes between "Pilot" (where Emma turns 28) and the second half of season three... So there is no way that "The Doctor" takes place on Halloween.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Nightlily wrote:

      AJDSOUAT wrote: Hmm, that's intresting. That would explain why there are Halloween decorations at Granny's in "The Doctor".

      Ah, no; those decorations were a goof, I'm afraid :-( Halloween takes place on October 31 and Emma's birthday is a week earlier. As we know, Emma was sent to our world when the Dark Curse was cast and she came to Storybrooke on her twenty-eight birthday (a major plot point in "Pilot"). However, a title card in "Queen of Hearts" (which takes place after "The Doctor") establishes that it's still 28 years since the curse was cast (as seen here), but the period of time between "Pilot" and S3E3 "Quite a Common Fairy" was less than a year (this is proven in "The Tower" when David states that it's been almost 30 years since Emma was born; since "The Tower" takes place one year after the first half of Season Three (as seen in "Going Home" - and the following episodes establish that twelve months pass during the time jump in this episode), this means that less than a year passes between "Pilot" (where Emma turns 28) and the second half of season three... So there is no way that "The Doctor" takes place on Halloween.

      But if several months passed between "The Return" and The "Stranger" (indicating the curse was broken almost a year after Emma arrived in Storybrooke) and there is a time jump of a year between 3A and 3B, then it would be almost 2 years, not less than a year.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Emillian Swanones wrote:

      Nightlily wrote:

      AJDSOUAT wrote: Hmm, that's intresting. That would explain why there are Halloween decorations at Granny's in "The Doctor".

      Ah, no; those decorations were a goof, I'm afraid :-( Halloween takes place on October 31 and Emma's birthday is a week earlier. As we know, Emma was sent to our world when the Dark Curse was cast and she came to Storybrooke on her twenty-eight birthday (a major plot point in "Pilot"). However, a title card in "Queen of Hearts" (which takes place after "The Doctor") establishes that it's still 28 years since the curse was cast (as seen here), but the period of time between "Pilot" and S3E3 "Quite a Common Fairy" was less than a year (this is proven in "The Tower" when David states that it's been almost 30 years since Emma was born; since "The Tower" takes place one year after the first half of Season Three (as seen in "Going Home" - and the following episodes establish that twelve months pass during the time jump in this episode), this means that less than a year passes between "Pilot" (where Emma turns 28) and the second half of season three... So there is no way that "The Doctor" takes place on Halloween.

      But if several months passed between "The Return" and The "Stranger" (indicating the curse was broken almost a year after Emma arrived in Storybrooke) and there is a time jump of a year between 3A and 3B, then it would be almost 2 years, not less than a year.

      Yes, which is why David says that it's been almost 30 years since Emma was born. If almost two years have passed since Emma came to Storybrooke on her 28th birthday, she would be almost 30 years old. Less than a year passes between "Pilot" and "Gong Home", and one year between 3A and 3B. Easy peasy.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Nightlily wrote:

      Emillian Swanones wrote:

      Nightlily wrote:

      AJDSOUAT wrote: Hmm, that's intresting. That would explain why there are Halloween decorations at Granny's in "The Doctor".

      Ah, no; those decorations were a goof, I'm afraid :-( Halloween takes place on October 31 and Emma's birthday is a week earlier. As we know, Emma was sent to our world when the Dark Curse was cast and she came to Storybrooke on her twenty-eight birthday (a major plot point in "Pilot"). However, a title card in "Queen of Hearts" (which takes place after "The Doctor") establishes that it's still 28 years since the curse was cast (as seen here), but the period of time between "Pilot" and S3E3 "Quite a Common Fairy" was less than a year (this is proven in "The Tower" when David states that it's been almost 30 years since Emma was born; since "The Tower" takes place one year after the first half of Season Three (as seen in "Going Home" - and the following episodes establish that twelve months pass during the time jump in this episode), this means that less than a year passes between "Pilot" (where Emma turns 28) and the second half of season three... So there is no way that "The Doctor" takes place on Halloween.
      But if several months passed between "The Return" and The "Stranger" (indicating the curse was broken almost a year after Emma arrived in Storybrooke) and there is a time jump of a year between 3A and 3B, then it would be almost 2 years, not less than a year.

      Yes, which is why David says that it's been almost 30 years since Emma was born. If almost two years have passed since Emma came to Storybrooke on her 28th birthday, she would be almost 30 years old. Less than a year passes between "Pilot" and "Gong Home", and one year between 3A and 3B. Easy peasy.

      You said less than a year in your previous post which was why I got confused.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Emillian Swanones wrote:

      Nightlily wrote:

      Emillian Swanones wrote:

      Nightlily wrote:

      AJDSOUAT wrote: Hmm, that's intresting. That would explain why there are Halloween decorations at Granny's in "The Doctor".

      Ah, no; those decorations were a goof, I'm afraid :-( Halloween takes place on October 31 and Emma's birthday is a week earlier. As we know, Emma was sent to our world when the Dark Curse was cast and she came to Storybrooke on her twenty-eight birthday (a major plot point in "Pilot"). However, a title card in "Queen of Hearts" (which takes place after "The Doctor") establishes that it's still 28 years since the curse was cast (as seen here), but the period of time between "Pilot" and S3E3 "Quite a Common Fairy" was less than a year (this is proven in "The Tower" when David states that it's been almost 30 years since Emma was born; since "The Tower" takes place one year after the first half of Season Three (as seen in "Going Home" - and the following episodes establish that twelve months pass during the time jump in this episode), this means that less than a year passes between "Pilot" (where Emma turns 28) and the second half of season three... So there is no way that "The Doctor" takes place on Halloween.
      But if several months passed between "The Return" and The "Stranger" (indicating the curse was broken almost a year after Emma arrived in Storybrooke) and there is a time jump of a year between 3A and 3B, then it would be almost 2 years, not less than a year.

      Yes, which is why David says that it's been almost 30 years since Emma was born. If almost two years have passed since Emma came to Storybrooke on her 28th birthday, she would be almost 30 years old. Less than a year passes between "Pilot" and "Gong Home", and one year between 3A and 3B. Easy peasy.

      You said less than a year in your previous post which was why I got confused.

      I meant less than a year between "Pilot" and the end of 3A.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Nightlily wrote:

      AJDSOUAT wrote: Hmm, that's intresting. That would explain why there are Halloween decorations at Granny's in "The Doctor".

      Ah, no; those decorations were a goof, I'm afraid :-( Halloween takes place on October 31 and Emma's birthday is a week earlier. As we know, Emma was sent to our world when the Dark Curse was cast and she came to Storybrooke on her twenty-eight birthday (a major plot point in "Pilot"). However, a title card in "Queen of Hearts" (which takes place after "The Doctor") establishes that it's still 28 years since the curse was cast (as seen here), but the period of time between "Pilot" and S3E3 "Quite a Common Fairy" was less than a year (this is proven in "The Tower" when David states that it's been almost 30 years since Emma was born; since "The Tower" takes place one year after the first half of Season Three (as seen in "Going Home" - and the following episodes establish that twelve months pass during the time jump in this episode), this means that less than a year passes between "Pilot" (where Emma turns 28) and the second half of season three... So there is no way that "The Doctor" takes place on Halloween.

      If Skin Deep is Valentines Day (Feb. 14), and The Queen Is Dead is on Snow's birthday (which is in winter, so Dec. - Feb.), then why can't The Doctor be on Halloween (Oct. 31)? That would all line up. Or am I missing something? Can it not be 9 months between Skin Deep and The Queen Is Dead?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • @CoolDudeAl: If there are less than two years between 101 and 3B, and exactly twelve months between the 3A and 3B, there has to be less than a year between Emma's birthday in 101, and 3A. Plus, 209 takes place less than a year after 101, because of the title card I mentioned.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • BTW: I meant the present day event of 3B (sorry, I'm typing on my phone right now).

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Nightlily wrote:
      @CoolDudeAl: If there are less than two years between 101 and 3B, and exactly twelve months between the 3A and 3B, there has to be less than a year between Emma's birthday in 101, and 3A. Plus, 209 takes place less than a year after 101, because of the title card I mentioned.

      Technically wasn't the missing year only like 9 months? Based on the Snow pregancy stuff.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Ok guys these are the only facts we know about the swanfire situation, I can prove them if anyone wants me to:


      • Emma was either 16, 17 or 18 when she gave birth to Henry. If she and Henry share the same birthday then she was 18 when she gave birth to him, if they do not share the same birthday however then she was either 16 or 17 when she gave birth to Henry.
      • Nealfire escaped Neverland and arrived back in our world in the year 1991. Therefore his aging process had resumed in 1991 after being halted due to his precense in Neverland.

      This is not enough information to determine whether or not Nealfire was a paedophile due to the fact he dated and had sex with Emma at the time he did. Therefore any statements that Nealfire was a paedophile due to the fact he dated and had sex with Emma at the time he did, are unproven accusations.

      I believe one is innocent until proven guilty. Therefore I hereby find Neal Cassidy not guilty of the immorality he has been accused of.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Leaving falsehoods on with speculation is not conducive to this discussion.

      Emma was 17 with no evidence countering that. It’s false to say 16, 17, or 18, because there is no equivalence.

      Emma and Henry’s birthday is already known. It’s false to speculate on their birthdays when we know them. It’s false to consider them to be the same day when there is overwhelming evidence that when they are and that they are not on the same day.

      Words have meaning and the term pedophile shouldn’t be used in this conversation and is not being discussed here. If what was meant was the law, then it is without a doubt against the law of Oregon.

      We cannot have substantive discussion when falsehoods are continuously discussed as if it were true. Lily has been displaying the key timeline events and notes on when this or that happened and we discussed the law amongst other things.

      Let’s focus on the totality of facts, context, and discuss this genuinely.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:
      Leaving falsehoods on with speculation is not conducive to this discussion.

      Emma was 17 with no evidence countering that. It’s false to say 16, 17, or 18, because there is no equivalence.

      Emma and Henry’s birthday is already known. It’s false to speculate on their birthdays when we know them. It’s false to consider them to be the same day when there is overwhelming evidence that when they are and that they are not on the same day.

      Words have meaning and the term pedophile shouldn’t be used in this conversation and is not being discussed here. If what was meant was the law, then it is without a doubt against the law of Oregon.

      We cannot have substantive discussion when falsehoods are continuously discussed as if it were true. Lily has been displaying the key timeline events and notes on when this or that happened and we discussed the law amongst other things.

      Let’s focus on the totality of facts, context, and discuss this genuinely.

      I did not know Emma and Henry's birthdays were given. Can you show me where? 

      Im sorry for using the p word, i simply do not know how else to put it.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Touli2 wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:
      Leaving falsehoods on with speculation is not conducive to this discussion.

      Emma was 17 with no evidence countering that. It’s false to say 16, 17, or 18, because there is no equivalence.

      Emma and Henry’s birthday is already known. It’s false to speculate on their birthdays when we know them. It’s false to consider them to be the same day when there is overwhelming evidence that when they are and that they are not on the same day.

      Words have meaning and the term pedophile shouldn’t be used in this conversation and is not being discussed here. If what was meant was the law, then it is without a doubt against the law of Oregon.

      We cannot have substantive discussion when falsehoods are continuously discussed as if it were true. Lily has been displaying the key timeline events and notes on when this or that happened and we discussed the law amongst other things.

      Let’s focus on the totality of facts, context, and discuss this genuinely.

      I did not know Emma and Henry's birthdays were given. Can you show me where? 

      Im sorry for using the p word, i simply do not know how else to put it.

      Emma’s birthday is Oct 22 and Henry’s is August 15. You can check their page and it’ll show all the citations and sources.

      The “p” word is missed used simply because it doesn’t mean what people think it means. In any case, someone in their early twenties falling for someone 17 isn’t when you can use that word (since literally months later, it would be totally legal everywhere).

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Nightlily wrote:
      @CoolDudeAl: If there are less than two years between 101 and 3B, and exactly twelve months between the 3A and 3B, there has to be less than a year between Emma's birthday in 101, and 3A. Plus, 209 takes place less than a year after 101, because of the title card I mentioned.
      Technically wasn't the missing year only like 9 months? Based on the Snow pregancy stuff.

      She didn't get pregnant immediately. By the time of The Tower, when David learns about the baby, Belle is already back with then and Neal's already "dead". But when Snow announces her pregnancy to Regina, Belle arrives like it's been quite some time since they had seen each other. I always thought that Belle's journey took a while.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:

      Nightlily wrote:
      @CoolDudeAl: If there are less than two years between 101 and 3B, and exactly twelve months between the 3A and 3B, there has to be less than a year between Emma's birthday in 101, and 3A. Plus, 209 takes place less than a year after 101, because of the title card I mentioned.

      Technically wasn't the missing year only like 9 months? Based on the Snow pregancy stuff.

      No. The missing year breaks down as follows:

      • Season 3A: One year before 3B (not part of the missing year but I'm including it nevertheless)
      • "New York City Serenade" flashback: One year before 3B
      • "Witch Hunt" flashback: One year before 3B
      • "Quiet Minds" flashback: One year before 3B
      • "The Tower" opening scene (where Snow tells David that she's pregnant): 9 months before 3B
      • "The Jolly Roger" flashback: 9 months before 3B
      • "A Curious Thing" opening scene (where Zelena announces her plans for Snow and David's child, and Belle returns to the others): 8 months before 3B
      • The rest of "The Tower" flashback (Charming's quest/ meeting with Rapunzel): Sometime between the opening scene of "A Curios Thing" and the casting of the second curse in the same episode (that is never stated on-screen, but Belle is back with the others, meaning that Charming's quest must take place after she returns on the opening scene of "A Curious Thing").
      • The rest of the "A Curious Thing" flashback, where Snow casts the new curse and brings everyone back to Storybrooke: 8 months after the opening scene and therefore 0 months before 3B.
        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Nightlily wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:

      Nightlily wrote:
      @CoolDudeAl: If there are less than two years between 101 and 3B, and exactly twelve months between the 3A and 3B, there has to be less than a year between Emma's birthday in 101, and 3A. Plus, 209 takes place less than a year after 101, because of the title card I mentioned.
      Technically wasn't the missing year only like 9 months? Based on the Snow pregancy stuff.

      No. The missing year breaks down as follows:

      • Season 3A: One year before 3B (not part of the missing year but I'm including it nevertheless)
      • "New York City Serenade" flashback: One year before 3B
      • "Witch Hunt" flashback: One year before 3B
      • "Quiet Minds" flashback: One year before 3B
      • "The Tower" opening scene (where Snow tells David that she's pregnant): 9 months before 3B
      • "The Jolly Roger" flashback: 9 months before 3B
      • "A Curious Thing" opening scene (where Zelena announces her plans for Snow and David's child, and Belle returns to the others): 8 months before 3B
      • The rest of "The Tower" flashback (Charming's quest/ meeting with Rapunzel): Sometime between the opening scene of "A Curios Thing" and the casting of the second curse in the same episode (that is never stated on-screen, but Belle is back with the others, meaning that Charming's quest must take place after she returns on the opening scene of "A Curious Thing").
      • The rest of the "A Curious Thing" flashback, where Snow casts the new curse and brings everyone back to Storybrooke: 8 months after the opening scene and therefore 0 months before 3B.

      Alright, that helps, thanks.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • A Spy in the Mirror
        Preparing Editor Spell
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