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  • A lot of people seem to hate the character, so this would probably be the place to have a discussion on her.

    Personally, I think the problem is that not enough time is focused on her and the poor writing. They made her very stereotypical and one note. Most of her storyline echoes many things seen before on the show as well. If she had more time to develop, fans would probably be more open to liking her.

    I don’t think Dania Ramirez is entirely at fault but she does seem kind of lost on what direction they want to take the character in. Her romance with Henry is also very forced, mainly because the progression of their relationship was never shown. Again, because of time constraints, this will probably never be touched upon.

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    • I agree. Some focus on superficial things and I think the issue is heavily on the writing. She’s a Debbie-downer which doesn’t connect fully to the audience to relate too, but is prefectly fine; however, she hasn’t done much since.

      If asked what has Jace done in recent 7A episodes, you’d be like “Um, love triangle or something?” if you remember that’s a thing (even though it’s pretty clear that Henry and Jace like each other and Nick is mostly offscreen.

      Sure she may not be the best actress, but you really wouldn’t get much more than what she gave.

      My constant point of redirection is Tiana/Sabine. Mekia appears to be a fine actress, but Tiana splurts out nothing but exposition essentially. Sabine gets a little humor and character in...and then isn’t ever really seen until they need some exposition/set-up.

      I feel that it’s an overreaction to the “changing of the guard”. Some writing cues and interviews didn’t do many favors constantly putting her up against Snow, which she is not. There were some executive flaws, like we didn’t even see Ella giving birth. And we’ve seen so many births even if the scene was just the birth.

      So, I’d get if someone says Ella/Jace feels like the extra clay used for Emma or Snow that was just leftover. I can see that, but some just go overboard given she really hasn’t done much.

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    • My problem with the character is that they really haven't fleshed her out. Like Drizella is only a guest star, and I feel like we have gotten more of her backstory and such than Ella. I also don't think the problem is Dania. We had a different actress playing a younger Ella in 709, and she didn't do much either. Maybe the writers were just saving Ella's stuff to near the end of the season (since assumably if the show went on Ella and Henry would have still been mains), but with the show ending now, it is going to be too little, too late.

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    • TheRose123 wrote: Personally, I think the problem is that not enough time is focused on her and the poor writing. They made her very stereotypical and one note. Most of her storyline echoes many things seen before on the show as well. If she had more time to develop, fans would probably be more open to liking her.

      I don’t think Dania Ramirez is entirely at fault but she does seem kind of lost on what direction they want to take the character in. Her romance with Henry is also very forced, mainly because the progression of their relationship was never shown. Again, because of time constraints, this will probably never be touched upon.

      This 100% sums up my thoughts on the character. I want to like her, but the writers aren't giving us much to work with. I really think we need more of her backstory from before she met Henry to really establish who she is, and we need to see more of her relationship with Henry to actually believe them as a couple.

      One episode in particular that I noticed was 7x10, in the flashbacks when we learn Henry's been poisoned by the coven. They really hammer in Regina's reaction to it, and I get that. It's her son, and that was a very important moment for her because she was gonna have to cast the curse. However, Cinderella was there too, and there was zero focus on her. I mean she did react, but it was more just a generic "oh no! This is bad! Save Henry!" whereas Regina got the real emotional, heart-wrenching part. I feel like they could've given Ella more, is all.

      Also, Dania Ramirez can do a really good performance when given a good script, that I know from seeing her in other stuff. It's just that, unlike actors such as Lana Parrilla and Robert Carlyle, she's not at the level where she can sell bad writing, and frankly that's all her character gets. I really do hope they're able to rectify this at least a little bit in 7B.

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    • I do agree that she suffers from a severe lack of backstory and even when she does have flashbacks theyre either a) always with Henry or b) serving another person's plot ie. Tremaine.

      I feel like the writers are trying to make her into a Snow 2.0 with the "rebellios princess" and wicked stepmother and romance that began with punching a man in the face and then mashing in a "mum can't see her kid because of the villain" story like Emma in season 1. What exactly is unique about her?

      We got Snow's backstory in episode 3 and hints at Emma's past right form season 1. We aren't getting much with Ella. Not saying we have nothing just not a lot.

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    • I agree as well. She's a weak version of previous heroines of the show's first seasons. It's not a matter of backstory, because not every character needs one, but definitely lack of focus and a distinct personality. Dania's acting doesn't help either, or her lack of chemistry with Andrew.

      Adult Henry... I also think he is a weak main character, he is no Emma, but the problem (I think) is not his personality or the actor, but it's just the focus, they are making it a Regina-centric show instead of a Henry-centric one. I thought it would be cool to see Henry's story and finally have a male protagonist, but he's just the damsel in distress that Regina has to save.

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    • I think adult!Henry gets by with the nostalgia from young!Henry tbh. Poor Ella doesn't get that luxury.

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    • During the 6 to 7 hiatus, I worried that the pillars of the show (H2R) had the chance of overshadowing the newbies. I think 7A started off strong for them and then sort of was drowned out by Regina being the active force in the present, Rumple having a major sidequest, and Hook’s quest to find his daughter.

      Major characters have to be competent, relatable, but most importantly, proactive, to matter in the bigger picture of things. The quest to stop Belfrey died out quickly and was consumed by Hook. Henry and Jace is sort of heavily focused on Regina. Rumple’s taking up the relevant sideplot space.

      The main villains also have nothing to do with Ella, Henry, etc. Gothel pestered the Tremaines. Drizzy pestered her mom. And I will sound a little ranty but the curse is a farce at this point with those that are awake.

      Probably would have been interesting to have Ella woke (since we’ve been waking up people).

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    • It still baffles me that she is even considered the star of the show. I would just say it's her cursed persona that is the Debbie-Downer but that would be wrong, even as Cinderella she seems to just be so devoid of hope and her epsiodes drag me down. Whether bad writing, bad acting or both, she does nothing good for me. Which is sad since Cinderella is my favorite Disney Princess. This version just lacks Cinderella's character. Her charm, kindness and hope are lost on this iteration and instead she just seems forced. The whole tough girl thing doesn't sit well with how she's played either. And I don't feel chemistry between she and Henry at all. I do feel the old cast (Rogers, Regina and Rumple) have overshadowed her, but after seeing what she's been given so far, maybe that's a good thing. I'm hoping 7b gives us more to go on as far as she's concerned and more of her stepfamily too. Tremaine and Drizella have both been very interesting.

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    • Just thinking, does she have any positive relationships outside of Henry and Lucy? There's Tiana but from what I can tell they have very few scenes together pre-curse.

      I mean Snow had Ruby, Blue, Granny and the Dwarves. Emma had Ella, Elsa, Rgeina, Zelena, August, Ruby. 

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    • Aine1989 wrote:

      Just thinking, does she have any positive relationships outside of Henry and Lucy? There's Tiana but from what I can tell they have very few scenes together pre-curse.

      I mean Snow had Ruby, Blue, Granny and the Dwarves. Emma had Ella, Elsa, Rgeina, Zelena, August, Ruby. 

      Besides Henry, Lucy, and Tiana, she would have Marcus, Cecelia, and Anastasia, although we didn't get to see much of their interactions with her. Rapunzel and Drizella don't really like her (which fits with the story). I'd also say she probably has good relations with the other resistance people (Regina, WHook, etc.). Finally, she would have a good interaction with the Fairy Godmother, but we'd need to have seen that interaction to get the feel of that.

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    • Chameleon-Guy wrote:

      I agree as well. She's a weak version of previous heroines of the show's first seasons. It's not a matter of backstory, because not every character needs one, but definitely lack of focus and a distinct personality. Dania's acting doesn't help either, or her lack of chemistry with Andrew.

      Agree. Her acting is subpar. I watched a whole (I think) season of Devious Maids and she was the weakest actress there. Also, her acting was weak in Heroes. You just need to look at the promo season 7 pics. She has "WHAT AM I DOING?" written all over her face. 

      Regarding Andrew, I think he is a pretty good main, but there is a lot of stuff going on around him, so they he didn't have enough screen time. In 10 epsiodes so far in season 7 they had to introduce the new characters (Tremaine, Gothel, Drizella, Jacinda) and they had to wrap Hook, Emma and Belle's storylines. Henry is kinda of lost there. I think they assumed they didn't need to spend time on Henry since he is a well established character

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:

      Just thinking, does she have any positive relationships outside of Henry and Lucy? There's Tiana but from what I can tell they have very few scenes together pre-curse.

      I mean Snow had Ruby, Blue, Granny and the Dwarves. Emma had Ella, Elsa, Rgeina, Zelena, August, Ruby. 

      Besides Henry, Lucy, and Tiana, she would have Marcus, Cecelia, and Anastasia, although we didn't get to see much of their interactions with her. Rapunzel and Drizella don't really like her (which fits with the story). I'd also say she probably has good relations with the other resistance people (Regina, WHook, etc.). Finally, she would have a good interaction with the Fairy Godmother, but we'd need to have seen that interaction to get the feel of that.

      Yeah that's my issue, practically all her relationships are off-screen.

      Who is she besides "Henry's love interest and Lucy's mother"?

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    • Rwo

      A token latina princess? I mean, come on.

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    • It's true that they rushed up their love story, I mean, I know it'll be shown in 7B, but man, they have 0 chemistry. Henry has had more chemistry with Drizella in 7x04 with just two scenes together or so, than him and Jacinda in the whole season. (lowkey shipping Henvy)

      But, only my opinion.

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    • Henry had more chemistry with Alice, to be honest! I am not sure who had the idea of throwing those two together.  I don't have an issue with a Latina Cinderella, but poor Dania has had everything against her in this role.

      First of all it was a role of a character we thought we knew. Second of all, she has no chemistry. Then there's the fact that she just doesn't fit the Cinderella character type at all the way she's been written and the way she acts. She's not particularly kind, courageous or dreamy.  

      They flipped Snow's story around and she still retained the feling of Snow White. Did anyone ever doubt that she was Snow? I didn't. She was still that sweet little girl from the fairy tale, she just grew up and had to change and adapt.

      With Jacinda we see that she's a capable young woman who doesn't seem to have any real goal or dream, her reson to get to the ball was revenge, but we haven't had any real progression with that story.  I'm hoping Dania manages to pull off a miracle and make me believe in this Cinderella before the show wraps up.

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    • would be funny if jacinda meet Ashley before the end ;)

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    • Jacinda/Ella reminds me of Katrina Crane from Sleepy Hollow. That show seriously went down the drain fast. Katrina was no exception. She had a limited/distanced role from Season One and that worked. Whether it was worthy of a full spotlight on her, is questionable. Then Season Two, she was more of a central character that unfortunately provided tedious storylines and while her feelings were legit (trying to save her demon ex and brainwashed son), it wasn't doing anyone any good and then would callously shift gears like leveraging her marriage against her husband. I know Jacinda has a more consistent role than a shifty one, but I guess that's an upside. Both characters also suffer from a lack of real backstory and hopefully Jacinda/Ella doesn't go from her good/neutral stance to full-on evil before dying. I felt so bad for that actress who played her by the end of that season. She was still able to play the role even with drastic shift, but even then it felt so wrong.

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    • Are we going to be seeing any more of her backstory? I feel like everything was building towards Cinderella World for this season but then Gothel and the coven just sort of took over. I would like to see more of Cinderella grown up and just before the ball. 

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    • GoodWitchOfTheNorth wrote:
      Are we going to be seeing any more of her backstory? I feel like everything was building towards Cinderella World for this season but then Gothel and the coven just sort of took over. I would like to see more of Cinderella grown up and just before the ball. 

      That is the question of the season. They billed Cinderella and Henry like Snow and Charming 2.0, and then proceed to give them hardly any backstory.

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      GoodWitchOfTheNorth wrote:
      Are we going to be seeing any more of her backstory? I feel like everything was building towards Cinderella World for this season but then Gothel and the coven just sort of took over. I would like to see more of Cinderella grown up and just before the ball. 
      That is the question of the season. They billed Cinderella and Henry like Snow and Charming 2.0, and then proceed to give them hardly any backstory.

      Well, in a Spoiler Room today, A&E compared Alice & Robin to Snowing - so I guess they're trying to shift focus to another couple now, one that may or may not end up getting decent development either. On one hand, they haven't sold me on Henry/Ella, so bringing in another romance is fine with me. But then the problem with that is the overall story still centers around Henry and the Henry/Ella situation should still be remedied.

      And it looks like Ella likely won't be getting a centric in the second half, so that's unfortunate for someone who is supposed to be the new female lead character. Most of the issue for me is probably that I don't think their Hyperion Heights interactions have been written well and that's the majority of what we're seeing from this pair. 

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    • JennaMae wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      GoodWitchOfTheNorth wrote:
      Are we going to be seeing any more of her backstory? I feel like everything was building towards Cinderella World for this season but then Gothel and the coven just sort of took over. I would like to see more of Cinderella grown up and just before the ball. 
      That is the question of the season. They billed Cinderella and Henry like Snow and Charming 2.0, and then proceed to give them hardly any backstory.
      Well, in a Spoiler Room today, A&E compared Alice & Robin to Snowing - so I guess they're trying to shift focus to another couple now, one that may or may not end up getting decent development either. On one hand, they haven't sold me on Henry/Ella, so bringing in another romance is fine with me. But then the problem with that is the overall story still centers around Henry and the Henry/Ella situation should still be remedied.

      And it looks like Ella likely won't be getting a centric in the second half, so that's unfortunate for someone who is supposed to be the new female lead character. Most of the issue for me is probably that I don't think their Hyperion Heights interactions have been written well and that's the majority of what we're seeing from this pair. 

      The cursed personas are just that though, cursed. Like MM and David were a bit hard to watch sometimes too, but what redeemed them is that you saw who they really were in FBs and how their love story went. Henry and Ella have not gotten this, and they have less individual FBs than Snow and Charming had as well. I think the writers wanted to have focus on Henry and Ella, but didn't want to have to write for Henry and Ella, when they had more interesting characters and stories they wanted to tell. Who knows, maybe we will get more of Henry and Ella in FBs in 7B than we think.

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:

      The cursed personas are just that though, cursed. Like MM and David were a bit hard to watch sometimes too, but what redeemed them is that you saw who they really were in FBs and how their love story went. Henry and Ella have not gotten this, and they have less individual FBs than Snow and Charming had as well. I think the writers wanted to have focus on Henry and Ella, but didn't want to have to write for Henry and Ella, when they had more interesting characters and stories they wanted to tell. Who knows, maybe we will get more of Henry and Ella in FBs in 7B than we think.

      Completely agree!

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    • Uhhh...so, they just gave up? 

      Early season 7 "Henry and Ella are like the new Snowing, epic romance, be excited!"

      Mid season 7 "Alice and Robin are like the new Snowing, epic romance, be excited!"

      I-I think we broke the writers, guys. I know they did cyclical arcs, reused storytelling technicques, and stuff, but this....

      Jace won't be getting much of an arc, I bet. We might have an episode devoted to them falling in love in HH and maybe some scenes in ye olde past in the background, but that appears to be it.

      It's weird. They completely wrote Ella out of the Cinderella story and shockers--She appears to have no story. (The love triangle is weird too as Henry and Jace like each other and Nick really isn't making any advances without signs frm Jace (who seems to just want the best of both worlds, I guess.)

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    • I like Ella/Jace and her relationship with Henry so it really sucks that neither has gotten much development. I think the writer's might have given up on developing Ella/Henriella because neither had a hugely positive response. So they decided to switch tactics and focus on a different couple in the second half. I personally believe this wasn't the right choice to make and that they needed to actually show Ella's backstory and not just tell us. 

      It is entirely possible this was their plan all along. But if so, why have Ella be the female lead if she is just going to get little development? I kind of think the writers fell back on the old mains as leads instead of developing Henry, Ella, and maybe Tiana as their new leads because the old mains are familiar and popular with the audience. However, this hurts the writing of the season because it means the old leads get all the development and action and the actual current leads get very little. There are 11 episodes left so maybe Ella will get a backstory episode even if she isn't the main focus of that episode.

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    • A major problem I have is that she seems to whine almost constantly as both Cinderella and Jacinda. Whine, whine, whine, I get it. Your life sucks. But when other characters, mainly Henry, try to help her, like Henry offering in 7x02 or 7x03, she complains about it and then goes on a long rant about how she's not a damsel in distress. Like, she complains about how much her life sucks and happy endings don't exist, but when someone tries to help her, she complains about them helping her. There's a reason why me and my friends call her Whinerella.

      Also, her chemistry with Henry sucks. It's like watching Henry have a relationship with a brick wall. It doesn't help that her facial expressions just seem so wooden sometimes. The only times I can really believe that she's being emotional are her scenes with Lucy.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      It's weird. They completely wrote Ella out of the Cinderella story and shockers--She appears to have no story. (The love triangle is weird too as Henry and Jace like each other and Nick really isn't making any advances without signs frm Jace (who seems to just want the best of both worlds, I guess.)

      Agree

      Cinderella barely interacts with Drizella and Tremaine 

      It's like the Cinderella fairytale was just an excuse to introduce a love interest for Henry



      But then again, they probably didn't want to copy/paste all the Snow/Evil Queen drama from season 1

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    • 8Rob wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      It's weird. They completely wrote Ella out of the Cinderella story and shockers--She appears to have no story. (The love triangle is weird too as Henry and Jace like each other and Nick really isn't making any advances without signs frm Jace (who seems to just want the best of both worlds, I guess.)

      Agree

      Cinderella barely interacts with Drizella and Tremaine 

      It's like the Cinderella fairytale was just an excuse to introduce a love interest for Henry



      But then again, they probably didn't want to copy/paste all the Snow/Evil Queen drama from season 1

      "It's like the Cinderella fairytale was just an excuse to introduce a love interest for Henry". I am starting to believe this wholeheartedly. But why Cinderella of all people? We've had millions of versions of her story throughout history, why would she be used AGAIN as the TL for Henry, a (mostly) beloved original OUAT character who we got to see grow up and turn into a hero? It is mind boggling for me.

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    • 8Rob wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      It's weird. They completely wrote Ella out of the Cinderella story and shockers--She appears to have no story. (The love triangle is weird too as Henry and Jace like each other and Nick really isn't making any advances without signs frm Jace (who seems to just want the best of both worlds, I guess.)

      Agree

      Cinderella barely interacts with Drizella and Tremaine 

      It's like the Cinderella fairytale was just an excuse to introduce a love interest for Henry



      But then again, they probably didn't want to copy/paste all the Snow/Evil Queen drama from season 1

      I think your part about her lack of interaction with Tremaine is importnt. If they wanted to set up Tremaine as the Big Bad, a parallel to Regina and Snow's dynamic, they could have devoted at least 5 minutes to them so we can feel something for this relationship. Because with Snow and Regina, we felt the hatred and rivalry but also the tragedy because they used to have a strong bond.

      I feel like Ella is more of a plot device for Tremaine and Drizella than a character in some ways

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    • Aine1989 wrote:
      8Rob wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      It's weird. They completely wrote Ella out of the Cinderella story and shockers--She appears to have no story. (The love triangle is weird too as Henry and Jace like each other and Nick really isn't making any advances without signs frm Jace (who seems to just want the best of both worlds, I guess.)

      Agree

      Cinderella barely interacts with Drizella and Tremaine 

      It's like the Cinderella fairytale was just an excuse to introduce a love interest for Henry



      But then again, they probably didn't want to copy/paste all the Snow/Evil Queen drama from season 1

      I think your part about her lack of interaction with Tremaine is importnt. If they wanted to set up Tremaine as the Big Bad, a parallel to Regina and Snow's dynamic, they could have devoted at least 5 minutes to them so we can feel something for this relationship. Because with Snow and Regina, we felt the hatred and rivalry but also the tragedy because they used to have a strong bond.

      I feel like Ella is more of a plot device for Tremaine and Drizella than a character in some ways

      Sadly, I feel like you're right. In trying to prove that this Cinderella is not some damsel in distress, they've instead turned her into a plot device. She helps move the story along whenever she's needed and then put back in her box and forgotten. This would be fine if she wasn't touted to be the romance of the century.

      As for Jacinda, she was more tolerable in this episode and I thought her quirkiness was endearing.  ​​​​​​Ella, as usual, was just a tagalong, however.

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    • They should’ve never used another version of Cinderella for season 7. They should’ve been more creative by adding an actual new character they have not used.

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    • Saintfighteraqua wrote:

      As for Jacinda, she was more tolerable in this episode and I thought her quirkiness was endearing.  ​​​​​​Ella, as usual, was just a tagalong, however.

      I think Cinderella was in the flashbacks just because we have to see her "bonding" with WHook to understand why he gave her the elephant that would keep Lucy with her in HH (7x10)

      Other than that, she was pretty pointless in the flashback

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    • KillianWeasley wrote:
      They should’ve never used another version of Cinderella for season 7. They should’ve been more creative by adding an actual new character they have not used.

      The Princess and the Pea for instance. It's a pretty simple story that doesn't need a lot of explanations/flashbacks

      But then we wouldn't have my girl Drizella :(

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    • I'm a bit conflicted on whether or not new versions of each character should have been used.

      On one hand: Jacinda is utter trash, and Jack, Blind Witch don't add much to the show.

      However, I absoloutely LOVE what they did with Drizella. It was very original, and felt fresh. I also like Victoria, Anastasia, Rapunzel, Gothel and the Princess and the Frog crew, so I'm conflicted on whether or not they should have rebooted with old characters.

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    • The Lord of Deathless wrote:

      "It's like the Cinderella fairytale was just an excuse to introduce a love interest for Henry". I am starting to believe this wholeheartedly. But why Cinderella of all people? We've had millions of versions of her story throughout history, why would she be used AGAIN as the TL for Henry, a (mostly) beloved original OUAT character who we got to see grow up and turn into a hero? It is mind boggling for me.

      It's the same with Alice

      She has nothing to do with Alice in Wonderland at this point. Her story is about Robyn, Gothel and WHook (and the Guardian). She didn't need to be another Alice

      It's like they only introduced the 2.0 version of the characters so people would be curious and watch season 7, but the storylines have nothing to do with the original fairytales

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    • 8Rob wrote:
      The Lord of Deathless wrote:

      "It's like the Cinderella fairytale was just an excuse to introduce a love interest for Henry". I am starting to believe this wholeheartedly. But why Cinderella of all people? We've had millions of versions of her story throughout history, why would she be used AGAIN as the TL for Henry, a (mostly) beloved original OUAT character who we got to see grow up and turn into a hero? It is mind boggling for me.

      It's the same with Alice

      She has nothing to do with Alice in Wonderland at this point. Her story is about Robyn, Gothel and WHook (and the Guardian). She didn't need to be another Alice

      It's like they only introduced the 2.0 version of the characters so people would be curious and watch season 7, but the storylines have nothing to do with the original fairytales

      I think Alice not being too close to the original tale is fine, since she still shows enough traits for me to believe she is Alice. She could be fine not being Alice too though. 

      I can't say the same for Ella lol.

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    • 8Rob wrote:
      The Lord of Deathless wrote:

      "It's like the Cinderella fairytale was just an excuse to introduce a love interest for Henry". I am starting to believe this wholeheartedly. But why Cinderella of all people? We've had millions of versions of her story throughout history, why would she be used AGAIN as the TL for Henry, a (mostly) beloved original OUAT character who we got to see grow up and turn into a hero? It is mind boggling for me.

      It's the same with Alice

      She has nothing to do with Alice in Wonderland at this point. Her story is about Robyn, Gothel and WHook (and the Guardian). She didn't need to be another Alice

      It's like they only introduced the 2.0 version of the characters so people would be curious and watch season 7, but the storylines have nothing to do with the original fairytales

      I don't know if I'd say Alice has nothing to do with Wonderland, we know she spent time there, even if we haven't really seen it yet, and she definitly has the personality of Alice. She is definitly more Alice than Ella is Cinderella.

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    • I really don't like Cinderella/Jacinda. I don't think it's Dania's acting, i think is bad writing. Where's the development for Cindy? Her scenes in the Tremaine Manor as a maid? It's not about having a new iteration of the Cinderella story, i really liked the Rapunzel is Lady Tremaine twist, but we needed more of this story. 

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    • It’s a complex issue. (I won’t argue opinions because I can’t really change them.)

      The writers likely went the route they did for two reasons:

      1. Everybody knows Cinderella, so why tell that story again? Using the character is different from elevorating on the origin story. For example, do we really need to see Bruce Wayne’s parents die before every Batman movie? The answer is no.

      So, they decided to give you a whiff of how Tremaine treats Ella and those around her while “telling” through certain dialogue segments. The issue is as prevalent as it appears is simply due to the perceived and anticipated role that Ella would have. Let’s say it was Henry and Tiana as the anticipated lead couple. Ella’s story would been seen better than it is now because the perceived level of importance doesn’t match the amount of focus it got.

      2. Cinderella was the staircase up the tower, but wasn’t on top. That was Rapunzel.

      Of course, there’s the things like “The writers like writing villains more than heroes” etc etc, which appear to be true. One could ask, “Was Cinderella just to get access to Drizella and Tremaine?” “Is Princess and the Frog really just to use Facilier?” (After all, I doubt it was just to support Ella with some subplot/friend.)

      As for those that say she could have been anyone else...I don’t want to make conclusions about that line of thinking, but let’s say that the idea of using a different fairytale character for Dania really makes minuscule difference.

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    • Saintfighteraqua wrote:

      As for Jacinda, she was more tolerable in this episode and I thought her quirkiness was endearing.  ​​​​​​Ella, as usual, was just a tagalong, however.

      I agree that Jace felt a lot more humorous and quirky in the most recent ep. That said, all her best moments are when she is not with Henry IMO, and that is a problem since the show writers will not stop forcing these two together in a way that I do not feel works. Ivy's relationship with him is so natural that it melted my heart right away, and it looks even better than it normally would in comparison to the opposing ship.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:
      It’s a complex issue. (I won’t argue opinions because I can’t really change them.)

      The writers likely went the route they did for two reasons:

      1. Everybody knows Cinderella, so why tell that story again? Using the character is different from elevorating on the origin story. For example, do we really need to see Bruce Wayne’s parents die before every Batman movie? The answer is no.

      So, they decided to give you a whiff of how Tremaine treats Ella and those around her while “telling” through certain dialogue segments. The issue is as prevalent as it appears is simply due to the perceived and anticipated role that Ella would have. Let’s say it was Henry and Tiana as the anticipated lead couple. Ella’s story would been seen better than it is now because the perceived level of importance doesn’t match the amount of focus it got.

      2. Cinderella was the staircase up the tower, but wasn’t on top. That was Rapunzel.

      Of course, there’s the things like “The writers like writing villains more than heroes” etc etc, which appear to be true. One could ask, “Was Cinderella just to get access to Drizella and Tremaine?” “Is Princess and the Frog really just to use Facilier?” (After all, I doubt it was just to support Ella with some subplot/friend.)

      As for those that say she could have been anyone else...I don’t want to make conclusions about that line of thinking, but let’s say that the idea of using a different fairytale character for Dania really makes minuscule difference.

      "Everybody knows Cinderella" is exactly my point, and putting an iconic fairytale character whose story we've seen a billion+ times in other works of literature/media with Henry, the original character and viewpoint/audience surrogate for OUAT just... why?

      "Was Cinderella just to get access to Drizella and Tremaine?" Potentially, sure, but then that wouldn't make sense if they are both leaving before the season is even 3/4ths finished. If Ella is nothing more than a plot device to use the two "anti-villains", it's beyond awful to get rid of those two so early on, then you have two fan favorites wasted and your main heroine (apart from good ol' Regina) is just... 1D as all heck. I could understand is they were secretly building up Drizella to be the true heroine of the story, but that's obviously never gonna happen since she only has 3 episodes left.

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    • Cinderella was used busineswise as it’s amongst the most popular fairytales of all time. Ignoring the demo, the Other Shoe has the highest overall viewership of season 6, without contest.

      So, if you can’t see why they’d use Cinderella than I guess this is becoming moot.

      A story is complex and I fear that many don’t understand the nuances within. Using Cinderella, the writers had access to the Evil Stepsisters and the Stepmother. They used this to combine with Rapunzel to create their big twist. Like, I know people like Ivy and Victoria but a good story doesn’t mean they have to stay all season.

      Victoria went out on a high note and some fans changed their minds or outlook towards her. That’s a solid reason why they shouldn’t continue further with a character. If they did, they’d do what many writers do and drive those characters into the ground.

      So, Ella’s inclusion is multi-faceted. With some flaws due to writer flavors, some due to the story focus, etc, etc.

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    • Eskaver wrote: Cinderella was used busineswise as it’s amongst the most popular fairytales of all time. Ignoring the demo, the Other Shoe has the highest overall viewership of season 6, without contest.

      So, if you can’t see why they’d use Cinderella than I guess this is becoming moot.

      A story is complex and I fear that many don’t understand the nuances within. Using Cinderella, the writers had access to the Evil Stepsisters and the Stepmother. They used this to combine with Rapunzel to create their big twist. Like, I know people like Ivy and Victoria but a good story doesn’t mean they have to stay all season.

      Victoria went out on a high note and some fans changed their minds or outlook towards her. That’s a solid reason why they shouldn’t continue further with a character. If they did, they’d do what many writers do and drive those characters into the ground.

      So, Ella’s inclusion is multi-faceted. With some flaws due to writer flavors, some due to the story focus, etc, etc.

      And now that both Victoria and Drizella are gone there is literally no reason for the writers to keep avoiding further development for Ella/Jacinda unless they really don't care. There's still seven episodes left so anything can happen but I doubt every one is gonna be crucial for her development.

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    • Dan Fox wrote:

      Eskaver wrote: Cinderella was used busineswise as it’s amongst the most popular fairytales of all time. Ignoring the demo, the Other Shoe has the highest overall viewership of season 6, without contest.

      So, if you can’t see why they’d use Cinderella than I guess this is becoming moot.

      A story is complex and I fear that many don’t understand the nuances within. Using Cinderella, the writers had access to the Evil Stepsisters and the Stepmother. They used this to combine with Rapunzel to create their big twist. Like, I know people like Ivy and Victoria but a good story doesn’t mean they have to stay all season.

      Victoria went out on a high note and some fans changed their minds or outlook towards her. That’s a solid reason why they shouldn’t continue further with a character. If they did, they’d do what many writers do and drive those characters into the ground.

      So, Ella’s inclusion is multi-faceted. With some flaws due to writer flavors, some due to the story focus, etc, etc.

      And now that both Victoria and Drizella are gone there is literally no reason for the writers to keep avoiding further development for Ella/Jacinda unless they really don't care. There's still seven episodes left so anything can happen but I doubt every one is gonna be crucial for her development.

      They aren’t avoiding development for Ella. They used Ella for access for something else.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      Dan Fox wrote:

      Eskaver wrote: Cinderella was used busineswise as it’s amongst the most popular fairytales of all time. Ignoring the demo, the Other Shoe has the highest overall viewership of season 6, without contest.

      So, if you can’t see why they’d use Cinderella than I guess this is becoming moot.

      A story is complex and I fear that many don’t understand the nuances within. Using Cinderella, the writers had access to the Evil Stepsisters and the Stepmother. They used this to combine with Rapunzel to create their big twist. Like, I know people like Ivy and Victoria but a good story doesn’t mean they have to stay all season.

      Victoria went out on a high note and some fans changed their minds or outlook towards her. That’s a solid reason why they shouldn’t continue further with a character. If they did, they’d do what many writers do and drive those characters into the ground.

      So, Ella’s inclusion is multi-faceted. With some flaws due to writer flavors, some due to the story focus, etc, etc.

      And now that both Victoria and Drizella are gone there is literally no reason for the writers to keep avoiding further development for Ella/Jacinda unless they really don't care. There's still seven episodes left so anything can happen but I doubt every one is gonna be crucial for her development.

      They aren’t avoiding development for Ella. They used Ella for access for something else.

      Gotta love those marketing strategies and character/story expendability.

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    • Sadly, that's probably true. They didn't care so much for Ella as they did the Tremaine's.  But they could have done the same story with Gothel in place of Tremaine and Rapunzel being Henry's princess, and even used Rapunzel version 1 or something, having Henry being Flynn. Rapunzel 1 was so bland she needed a better story. But I guess once she was out of the tower there was no going back.

      I absolutely loved the Tremaines (at least Lady and Drizella...Anastasia wasn't around enough) and I am glad they used them. It would have been nice to have had more of the Cinderella mythos involved, though.

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    • Saintfighteraqua wrote:
      They didn't care so much for Ella as they did the Tremaine's.

      After 7x15 my issue with Jacinda/Cinderella is even bigger 

      She was introduced just as an excuse to have Rapunzel/Tremaine, Anastasia and Drizella. That was.... let's say "ok", because we got my girl Drizella/Ivy.

      But now they got rid of all of the Tremaine family

      So, were are only left with Jacinda, who is an undeveloped unlikeable character and has little to nothing to do with the Cinderella fairytale 

      I don't know why Drizella left so early, but if they invested so much time with Tremaine family, she should have stayed a little longer. 

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    • I think you have pointed out the issue, Rob. They spent so much time developing Drizella, Tremaine, Nook, Alice and Gothel that they left Ella behind. Tiana and Lucy got left too but they aren't billed as the lead so it's not as bad. 

      I think the issue with is they had to introduce and develop 8 new characters (Ella, Tiana, Lucy, Tremaine, Drizella, Alice, Nook, Robin) and contrinue with storylines for our four old ones (Henry, Regina, Rumple, Zelena), as well as wrap up Emma and Belle's storylines. And in all that, Ella sort of got tossed aside.

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    • For me, Cinderella is boring as hell, but I liked when Jacinda was struggling with her daughter and economy at the same time. It felt too real to me.

      As for the Jacinda/Henry romance, it doesn't help at all that Drizella is a much interesting character and Adelaide Kane has chemistry even with a brick

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    • I gotta say I wasn’t the biggest fan of Ella/Jacinda but 7x15s scenes with Jacinda and Henry have got me starting to ship GlassBeliever

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    • There is something that I do not think anybody has mentioned yet - Cinderella/Jacinda is first of all not hot enough for such a strong role. Let's be honest - she looks like a girl next door acts like a middle aged woman and lacks the chemistry to even have any chance of viewers to like her. Honestly - put her next ot any of the main females and nobody is paying any attention to her. Why oh why could not she had been hot angel with a killer moves when needed?

      Too bad. this used to be my very favorite show, so sad to see what was made of it. 

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    • Tammy S wrote: There is something that I do not think anybody has mentioned yet - Cinderella/Jacinda is first of all not hot enough for such a strong role. Let's be honest - she looks like a girl next door acts like a middle aged woman and lacks the chemistry to even have any chance of viewers to like her. Honestly - put her next ot any of the main females and nobody is paying any attention to her. Why oh why could not she had been hot angel with a killer moves when needed?

      Too bad. this used to be my very favorite show, so sad to see what was made of it. 

      I do think that’s pretty subpar to think that a woman has to be “hot” to be a strong female character or play a major role. Opinions are opinions, but I disagree that that has any merit or validity in discussion.

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    • Tammy S wrote:
      Cinderella/Jacinda is first of all not hot enough for such a strong role. 

      You're saying that every lead actress has to be the fairest of them all? First of all, everyone is beautiful. Some may not like a person's appearance, while others may think he/she is gorgeous. And appearance has absolutely nothing to do with acting. The main problem with Jacinda (Dania) is her mediocre acting and lack of chemistry with Henry (Andrew). GlassBeliever is propably one of the worst couples of the show, because it was so hyped and turned out to be awfuly written and forced. :-(

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      Tammy S wrote: There is something that I do not think anybody has mentioned yet - Cinderella/Jacinda is first of all not hot enough for such a strong role. Let's be honest - she looks like a girl next door acts like a middle aged woman and lacks the chemistry to even have any chance of viewers to like her. Honestly - put her next ot any of the main females and nobody is paying any attention to her. Why oh why could not she had been hot angel with a killer moves when needed?

      Too bad. this used to be my very favorite show, so sad to see what was made of it. 

      I do think that’s pretty subpar to think that a woman has to be “hot” to be a strong female character or play a major role. Opinions are opinions, but I disagree that that has any merit or validity in discussion.

      No, she does not have to be hot to play a strong female character if her role does not ask for it. However, if we go to the original story of Cinderella, the Prince is smitten the moment he sees her. Is it because he can see what a nice person she is? Some roles are asking for beauties, and for me the role of Cinderella certainly is. I am not trying to be politically correct here, I am saying that public reacts to beauty, which is a fact and in my opinion she Dania was not a good choice. I think somebody like Eva Mendes would have been a better choice. Somebody who gets noticed the second she enters the room. 

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    • Jim OUATcollins wrote:
      Tammy S wrote:
      Cinderella/Jacinda is first of all not hot enough for such a strong role. 
      You're saying that every lead actress has to be the fairest of them all? First of all, everyone is beautiful. Some may not like a person's appearance, while others may think he/she is gorgeous. And appearance has absolutely nothing to do with acting. The main problem with Jacinda (Dania) is her mediocre acting and lack of chemistry with Henry (Andrew). GlassBeliever is propably one of the worst couples of the show, because it was so hyped and turned out to be awfuly written and forced. :-(

      I will agree that it was poorly written and that none of them is a great choice for their roles. However, I am honest with my opinions and think that Zelena's appeal for example is in the package - great acting, good looks and amazing to watch. So, you can think me rude for saying what I mean. I do not have a problem with honesty and still stand behind my words. I have never said that a person has to be hot to be good actress, that is generalizing and please do not do that. 

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    • Jacinda has been growing on me, though it's a little too late. As Cinderella she is such a bore, though.  I kind of get what Tammy is saying, but I disagree with the tone.

      Cinderella/Jacinda is pretty, but i do agree she is not "super sexy hot". In my honest opinion, none of the mains are or ever have been. They are all moderately attractive to good looking. (Drizella probably was the most attractive in my own personal opinion) I have a feeling if we had a blonde-bombshell Cinderella we'd be complaining she was only cast for her looks even if she could act.

      My opinion of Dania's acting as Cinderella is that she came off as a bit of a jerk at first. I didn't like her as Cinderella, she was rude and her brash attitude wasn't fun to watch, especially juxtaposed with her awkwardness with the main cast. She seemed shy but angry and the mix didn't work with how she played it. I don't know if they were going for a loner attitude at first, but either way, it wasn't done well. This worked with Snow better because she was the first character portrayed this way on the show and Cinderella feels like a Snow White ripoff.  The whole, "I'm a pretty princess but I'm so tough," thing is fine from time to time, but it's kind of overdone at this point, especially when they mimicked Snow so much. Also, even though Emma was the main character in s1, Snow was the meat and potatoes of the flash backs...where as the flash backs here seem to have focused most heavily on characters who are ultimately pointless to the story being told (I love Tiana, but remove her and nothing changes.)  I would have preferred Henry to have been Tiana's prince, they have somewhat more chemistry and the story could have focused more on Facilier with Cinderella playing the role Tiana does, as best friend with a kingdom.

      I think she had bad direction too. There's always something off about her scenes. Top that all off with that she has had hardly any real scenes or growth as a character and it's not fair for the actress or the character(s). She has no chemistry with Henry. It was unfair to that character as well.

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    • Tammy S wrote:
      There is something that I do not think anybody has mentioned yet - Cinderella/Jacinda is first of all not hot enough for such a strong role. Let's be honest - she looks like a girl next door acts like a middle aged woman and lacks the chemistry to even have any chance of viewers to like her. Honestly - put her next ot any of the main females and nobody is paying any attention to her. Why oh why could not she had been hot angel with a killer moves when needed?

      Too bad. this used to be my very favorite show, so sad to see what was made of it. 

      She's playing Cinderella, not Aphrodite. Last time I checked Cinderella didn't need to be smoking hot to be Cinderella. Besides, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'm sure some people think she is very beautiful.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Tammy S wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      Tammy S wrote: There is something that I do not think anybody has mentioned yet - Cinderella/Jacinda is first of all not hot enough for such a strong role. Let's be honest - she looks like a girl next door acts like a middle aged woman and lacks the chemistry to even have any chance of viewers to like her. Honestly - put her next ot any of the main females and nobody is paying any attention to her. Why oh why could not she had been hot angel with a killer moves when needed?

      Too bad. this used to be my very favorite show, so sad to see what was made of it. 

      I do think that’s pretty subpar to think that a woman has to be “hot” to be a strong female character or play a major role. Opinions are opinions, but I disagree that that has any merit or validity in discussion.
      No, she does not have to be hot to play a strong female character if her role does not ask for it. However, if we go to the original story of Cinderella, the Prince is smitten the moment he sees her. Is it because he can see what a nice person she is? Some roles are asking for beauties, and for me the role of Cinderella certainly is. I am not trying to be politically correct here, I am saying that public reacts to beauty, which is a fact and in my opinion she Dania was not a good choice. I think somebody like Eva Mendes would have been a better choice. Somebody who gets noticed the second she enters the room. 

      Eva Mendes is a movie actress. You aren't going to get an actress who only does movies on a television show. Now if you are saying a similar looking actress to her, that might have been possible.

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    • She's just irrelevant overall. Henry is boring, too. Hell, even Hook and Rumple are giving me nothing to work with, and Regina has gottten boring, too, and it's a gone damn miracle that you can make a character like Regina turn stale. Ivy was great. Alice is ok. Zelena is good. That's pretty much it. Facilier and Gothel are ultra boring villains (Though Gothel seems to be taking a turn for the better now) and the season should not have happened. 

      The show should've ended with a final battle between Emma and Fiona.

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    • I absolutely think that Jacinda/Ella would gain popularity and significance if in the end it turns out that she is a member of he coven!! This would explain why her love doesn't seem strongly and passionate, why in 7a she runs always from happiness and doesn't believe in happy endings, why before the curse she doesn't want to sent anybody to try and save Henry, and why in 7x19 the curse didn't break. I would be sorry for Lucy, but even villains have a family.

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    • Bottondoro wrote:
      I absolutely think that Jacinda/Ella would gain popularity and significance if in the end it turns out that she is a member of he coven!! This would explain why her love doesn't seem strongly and passionate, why in 7a she runs always from happiness and doesn't believe in happy endings, why before the curse she doesn't want to sent anybody to try and save Henry, and why in 7x19 the curse didn't break. I would be sorry for Lucy, but even villains have a family.

      That would be crazy! I doubt they'll go that route but it would have been interesting. I've never considered it. Maybe she would still be on a path of revenge like she was at the ball. However, the fact that she didn't kill the prince makes me think she is actually good. Still, it would have been a shocking twist. I wouldn't have been for it, but it would have definitely spiced her up.

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    • Thank you! Let's write the 8th season!

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    • Bottondoro wrote:
      Thank you! Let's write the 8th season!

      As a fan project, is an interesting idea... I still remember the era of "Buffy Season 8"

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    • Don’t go offtopic.

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    • So, now young Henry is going to meet Jacinda in 7x22

      You know what would be hilarious?

      If, after meeting her, he decides that going to the NEF is not such a great idea anymore and throws the magic bean into to the trash can

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

      Please, let it happen! 

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    • 8Rob wrote:
      So, now young Henry is going to meet Jacinda in 7x22

      You know what would be hilarious?

      If, after meeting her, he decides that going to the NEF is not such a great idea anymore and throws the magic bean into to the trash can

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

      Please, let it happen! 

      Oh my God, I'm dying over here, help! XD (no, not sarcasm, you genuinely cracked me up)

      That said, I don't think she's so bad that Henry would consider doing that. But it's still funny to think about.

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    • I think her acting is bad, and the charater was mis-cast. But even with good writing, I still think she would have done badly.

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    • I'm actually gonna put my hands up and say, in 7b, Ella and Glass Believer won me over. But it's still a shame that Ella wasn't given the development and focus she deserved.

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    • I didn't think there was anything bad about Jacinda in 7b, and I actually liked the engagement scene between Henry and Ella. At that point it felt like everyone was so fixated on hating the character that no matter what she did people were going to complain, even though she wasn't doing much of anything. I still don't think Dania Ramirez was right for the part, but had the character and ship been more fleshed out and received better writing then maybe she could've maybe pulled it off. However, I do think Dania is better in more bubbly, light-hearted roles such as Rosie from Devious Maids, and perhaps that's the direction they should've taken her in, rather than trying to make her this edgy, nihilistic "badass".

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    • Yeah, by 7b it was just too late.

      Cinderella/Jacinda was a badly written character.  Dania's acting aside, I can't imagine anyone pulling off that lousy storyline.  I was so excited for it too, since Cinderella is my favorite princess and among my top favorite Disney movies. Making her edgy and defeatist killed the character. Cinderella is about hope through trials, Jacinderella was just ready to give up at the drop of a hat most days unless someone dragged her out of it. It's also a shame we never learned more about the plot where she was going to kill the prince and waht had gone down with that.

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    • DeviousPeep wrote:
      I didn't think there was anything bad about Jacinda in 7b, and I actually liked the engagement scene between Henry and Ella. At that point it felt like everyone was so fixated on hating the character that no matter what she did people were going to complain, even though she wasn't doing much of anything. I still don't think Dania Ramirez was right for the part, but had the character and ship been more fleshed out and received better writing then maybe she could've maybe pulled it off. However, I do think Dania is better in more bubbly, light-hearted roles such as Rosie from Devious Maids, and perhaps that's the direction they should've taken her in, rather than trying to make her this edgy, nihilistic "badass".

      I like your last point. They were too busy trying to make Ella a Badass Warrior because Feminism that tehy forgot to make her an actual character

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    • Saintfighteraqua wrote:
      Yeah, by 7b it was just too late.

      Cinderella/Jacinda was a badly written character.  Dania's acting aside, I can't imagine anyone pulling off that lousy storyline.  I was so excited for it too, since Cinderella is my favorite princess and among my top favorite Disney movies. Making her edgy and defeatist killed the character. Cinderella is about hope through trials, Jacinderella was just ready to give up at the drop of a hat most days unless someone dragged her out of it. It's also a shame we never learned more about the plot where she was going to kill the prince and waht had gone down with that.

      Yeah, the biggest problem for me with Jacinda/Cinderella is we barely saw any of the actual Cinderella story. Like Ashley/Cinderella had much more of the story in two episodes. Jacinda/Cinderella had a whole season, and we hardly got anything.

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    • I liked her better in 7B because she was more cheerful and idealistic compared to how much of a cynical downer she was in 7A.

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    • I must be contrarian by default.

      I think the Debbie downer Ella was a good thing....but they just overdid it, provided little to no backstory, and dropped it off a cliff.

      Being cynical is a solid flaw for a hopeful Cinderella, but they just overdumped and ignored it as she became a minor character.

      Plus, they tried to Snow-ify her. Snow was a cynic who truly believed, Mary Margaret was a hopeless romantic. Ella was a Debbie downer for 5 seconds, Jacinda was the same, then minor character twice over for a dozen plus episodes.

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    • I honestly didn't mind a cynical Cinderella, but the writers overdid it by having her complain how much her life sucks, how there are no happy endings, how she wasn't a damsel in distress, blah, blah, blah, every time she appeared. It got grating. There were many times I wished she would just shut up.

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    • I have to agree with you guys. One of the most powerful moments in Disney's Cinderella is when she runs to the willow tree (side note: this is most likley the site of her mother's grave!) and breaks down, saying it's hopeless. Her low point there made her shine that much brighter when hope was restored.

      I believe you are right, they just overdid it. Also, as much as I love a strong female character, Jacinda/Ella just came off as a jerk most of the time with it. I found her interactions with Henry in 7b much more tolerable...but by then she felt like she had nothing to do. Victoria was dead and she had Lucy back...she just kind of waited around. The more I think on it (and I'll know after rewatching) the more I feel that Dania wasn't right for the part, but she's not as bad as an actress as some of these scenes made her come off as.

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    • Saintfighteraqua wrote:
      The more I think on it (and I'll know after rewatching) the more I feel that Dania wasn't right for the part, but she's not as bad as an actress as some of these scenes made her come off as.

      I have to agree with this part—I swear she emoted more in the Tell Me A Story trailer than the scenes in 708, "Pretty in Blue." 

      I also felt the ONCE's original Cinderella did such a good job at taking a girl who changes her life into a modern take that felt natural and uplifting. 

      Related note: "Oh! You're called Cinderella because you pick up cinders!" Wow Henry! Thank you for pointing that out to us! Sighs as I wonder how the writers lack this much faifth in their audience.

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    • To be fair, this show has never been subtle. In 1x04, Henry said "stepmom, steps sisters, and she's a maid" about Ashley

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    • Aine1989 wrote:
      To be fair, this show has never been subtle. In 1x04, Henry said "stepmom, steps sisters, and she's a maid" about Ashley

      I agree, although at least that scene made more sense for Henry's character who was trying to persuade Emma into believing in the curse with him. 

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    • A Spy in the Mirror
        Preparing Editor Spell
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