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  • On this page, Hook's mother's name is down as unknown, and on wish realm Hook's page, his father is unknown, but wish realm Hook previously said that his and this Hook's lives had been the same up until the Evil Queen cast the first curse (or in wish realm Hook's case, didn't), so surely that means their parents would have the same names. So that means that this Hook's mother is called Alice and wish realm Hook's father is Brennan Jones.

      Preparing Editor Spell
    • There are some inconsistencies in the WR as not everything was the same.

      Occam’s Razor says that Hook’s parents are the same. However, the wiki prefers certainty over speculation.

      Plus WR is an anomaly. We don’t know when WR spring into existence and at what point did the characters begin. Ex. Is there a Wish Cora? If so, did she go to New Wonderland or a Wish Wonderland? New Wonderland is nothing like Wonderland of before. What about Wish Zelena and Wish or New Oz?

      Basically, we don’t even know if those versions actually existed or Hook, etc sprung into existence with those memories.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Hook and Wish Hook's parents would both be the same, as they are literally the same person genetically, so I have no idea why we aren't listing Alice as his mother and Brennan as his father in both cases. The show was very clear with this, both with Hook's dialog, and even with what else we saw in the Wish Realm. Snow and Charming still had Emma, Emma and Neal still had Henry, etc.

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    • I don't think we should add the Alice to MainHook, only because I think it's better to have confirmation than assume. Plus (this is very unlikely), maybe WHook's mother went by a different name in the EF

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    • Lola987 wrote:
      I don't think we should add the Alice to MainHook, only because I think it's better to have confirmation than assume. Plus (this is very unlikely), maybe WHook's mother went by a different name in the EF

      It isn't assuming though. Hook and WHook have the same origin, how would the parents not be Alice and Brennan? If the parents were different, than Hook and WHook wouldn't be the same person.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      There are some inconsistencies in the WR as not everything was the same.

      Occam’s Razor says that Hook’s parents are the same. However, the wiki prefers certainty over speculation.

      Plus WR is an anomaly. We don’t know when WR spring into existence and at what point did the characters begin. Ex. Is there a Wish Cora? If so, did she go to New Wonderland or a Wish Wonderland? New Wonderland is nothing like Wonderland of before. What about Wish Zelena and Wish or New Oz?

      Basically, we don’t even know if those versions actually existed or Hook, etc sprung into existence with those memories.

      If we don't list them, it is because a community discussion already happened on that matter, and most of people voted and decided to not list them.

      And basically, most of the arguments was what Eskaver just explained. They are inconsistensies between the EF and WR, so we chose to be careful and wait a real source on the issue.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Lady Junky wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      There are some inconsistencies in the WR as not everything was the same.

      Occam’s Razor says that Hook’s parents are the same. However, the wiki prefers certainty over speculation.

      Plus WR is an anomaly. We don’t know when WR spring into existence and at what point did the characters begin. Ex. Is there a Wish Cora? If so, did she go to New Wonderland or a Wish Wonderland? New Wonderland is nothing like Wonderland of before. What about Wish Zelena and Wish or New Oz?

      Basically, we don’t even know if those versions actually existed or Hook, etc sprung into existence with those memories.

      If we don't list them, it is because a community discussion already happened on that matter, and most of people voted and decided to not list them.

      And basically, most of the arguments was what Eskaver just explained. They are inconsistensies between the EF and WR, so we chose to be careful and wait a real source on the issue.

      I agree that their are some weird things regarding EF VS WR, but who's someone parents are is not one of them. Wish Henry is the prime example of this. Even though it makes almost no sense from a story perspective, Emma and Neal are still Henry's parents. So I don't see how Hook (who's birth would have still been hundreds of years before the WR scenes we saw), would not be the child of Brennan and Alice. Anyway you look at it, it doesn't make sense to not list those as both Hook and WHook's parents.

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    • We can’t add both sides together because we cannot assume everything is the same. “Infinite Realms, infinite possibilities.”

      Can we add Cora and Zelena and Henry, etc to Wish Queen’s tree? No, because we have no clue who and what happened.

      Real Hook’s mom could be a twin with her twin sister being Alice, but her name is Dinah. Wish Hook could be the result of the other twin sister getting the very noble Brennan. This is as factual as hypothesiszing that they have the same family tree.

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    • Everything in the wish realm should be the same in the enchanted forest before the 1st curse

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      We can’t add both sides together because we cannot assume everything is the same. “Infinite Realms, infinite possibilities.”

      Can we add Cora and Zelena and Henry, etc to Wish Queen’s tree? No, because we have no clue who and what happened.

      Real Hook’s mom could be a twin with her twin sister being Alice, but her name is Dinah. Wish Hook could be the result of the other twin sister getting the very noble Brennan. This is as factual as hypothesiszing that they have the same family tree.

      Actually, no it can't work how you are describing. Nothing the writers said, nothing the characters said, nothing we saw, supports that. And yes, Wish Queen's parents would be Cora and Henry Sr. They are the same biological person, they can't have different parents. Not how biology works.

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      We can’t add both sides together because we cannot assume everything is the same. “Infinite Realms, infinite possibilities.”

      Can we add Cora and Zelena and Henry, etc to Wish Queen’s tree? No, because we have no clue who and what happened.

      Real Hook’s mom could be a twin with her twin sister being Alice, but her name is Dinah. Wish Hook could be the result of the other twin sister getting the very noble Brennan. This is as factual as hypothesiszing that they have the same family tree.

      Actually, no it can't work how you are describing. Nothing the writers said, nothing the characters said, nothing we saw, supports that. And yes, Wish Queen's parents would be Cora and Henry Sr. They are the same biological person, they can't have different parents. Not how biology works.

      Actually, yes. As we don't know how Wish Realm functions yet. Unless you have writer confirmation AND in-show evidence that the WR didn't spring forth from a wish and that everything is accurately equal, then it does work like that.

      I can ask, "What do you know about Alice Sr.?" The answer is nothing. If Hook's mom had a twin sister, how would we know Real Hook's mom isn't the other sister? How do we know Hook didn't spawn out of thin air with some manufactured backstory? Henry Sr could be called Harry in this reality. Even if biological things are the same, there are factors like types of relationships and names, etc.

      The answer is that we don't. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I agree that we cannot list Alice and Brennan on the other Hook's pages.

      How do you know that everyone in the Wish Realm has the same parents? All we saw is that Emma and Henry did. No one else was given a family tree. There is absolutely no evidence for that assumption except inductive reasoning (I think I'm using that term correctly) -- because it was true once, it MUST be true every other time.

      Except we know inductive reasoning doesn't apply to the Wish Realm. Using inductive reasoning, Snow, Charming, Emma, Hook, and Pinocchio have all aged for the 28 years they would have been under the curse, so, therefore, everyone must have aged for those 28 years. And yet, Robin of Locksley exists, the same age he was after being frozen for 28 years. Furthermore, his history is different as Marian died before he became Robin Hood and they were never married.

      It's always safer and more encyclopedic to not assume when there is no clear evidence. And in this case, all we have is inductive reasoning, and that's not enough.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      We can’t add both sides together because we cannot assume everything is the same. “Infinite Realms, infinite possibilities.”

      Can we add Cora and Zelena and Henry, etc to Wish Queen’s tree? No, because we have no clue who and what happened.

      Real Hook’s mom could be a twin with her twin sister being Alice, but her name is Dinah. Wish Hook could be the result of the other twin sister getting the very noble Brennan. This is as factual as hypothesiszing that they have the same family tree.

      Actually, no it can't work how you are describing. Nothing the writers said, nothing the characters said, nothing we saw, supports that. And yes, Wish Queen's parents would be Cora and Henry Sr. They are the same biological person, they can't have different parents. Not how biology works.
      Actually, yes. As we don't know how Wish Realm functions yet. Unless you have writer confirmation AND in-show evidence that the WR didn't spring forth from a wish and that everything is accurately equal, then it does work like that.

      I can ask, "What do you know about Alice Sr.?" The answer is nothing. If Hook's mom had a twin sister, how would we know Real Hook's mom isn't the other sister? How do we know Hook didn't spawn out of thin air with some manufactured backstory? Henry Sr could be called Harry in this reality. Even if biological things are the same, there are factors like types of relationships and names, etc.

      The answer is that we don't. 

      Whether or not Alice and Brennan really existed in the Wish Realm or not is not the point. WHook has memories that they did, even if all the characters did appear from the wish. Otherwise, we shouldn't say any characters exist in Wish Realm exist unless we actually saw them. And no one has been shown to have a different name in the Wish Realm, so saying someone might is pure speculation, and doesn't go with what has been shown.

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    • DatNuttyKid wrote:
      I agree that we cannot list Alice and Brennan on the other Hook's pages.

      How do you know that everyone in the Wish Realm has the same parents? All we saw is that Emma and Henry did. No one else was given a family tree. There is absolutely no evidence for that assumption except inductive reasoning (I think I'm using that term correctly) -- because it was true once, it MUST be true every other time.

      Except we know inductive reasoning doesn't apply to the Wish Realm. Using inductive reasoning, Snow, Charming, Emma, Hook, and Pinocchio have all aged for the 28 years they would have been under the curse, so, therefore, everyone must have aged for those 28 years. And yet, Robin of Locksley exists, the same age he was after being frozen for 28 years. Furthermore, his history is different as Marian died before he became Robin Hood and they were never married.

      It's always safer and more encyclopedic to not assume when there is no clear evidence. And in this case, all we have is inductive reasoning, and that's not enough.

      Ages are very different from people's biological parents, we know ages can be altered with magic, but we haven't seen anything about changing parents with magic. Furthurmore, we have clear evidence from the show that Hook and WHook have the same past, as WHook states it on the show.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      DatNuttyKid wrote:
      I agree that we cannot list Alice and Brennan on the other Hook's pages.

      How do you know that everyone in the Wish Realm has the same parents? All we saw is that Emma and Henry did. No one else was given a family tree. There is absolutely no evidence for that assumption except inductive reasoning (I think I'm using that term correctly) -- because it was true once, it MUST be true every other time.

      Except we know inductive reasoning doesn't apply to the Wish Realm. Using inductive reasoning, Snow, Charming, Emma, Hook, and Pinocchio have all aged for the 28 years they would have been under the curse, so, therefore, everyone must have aged for those 28 years. And yet, Robin of Locksley exists, the same age he was after being frozen for 28 years. Furthermore, his history is different as Marian died before he became Robin Hood and they were never married.

      It's always safer and more encyclopedic to not assume when there is no clear evidence. And in this case, all we have is inductive reasoning, and that's not enough.

      Ages are very different from people's biological parents, we know ages can be altered with magic, but we haven't seen anything about changing parents with magic. Furthurmore, we have clear evidence from the show that Hook and WHook have the same past, as WHook states it on the show.

      Hook, Regina, and even WRumple have also stated that the Wish Realm is fake, but we know that's not true. The show has shown us repeatedly and consistently that the characters do not understand how the Wish Realm works. And how would WHook know the name of Hook's parents?

      The more reliable opposite of inductive reasoning is deductive reasoning. Deductive reasoning states that because we know some things in a given Wish person's history may be different from their counterpart's, that means anything in a given Wish person's history may be different from their counterpart's. With that in mind, we cannot assume anything that has not been outright stated. The name of WHook's father and Hook's mother have not been outright stated.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • DatNuttyKid wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      DatNuttyKid wrote:
      I agree that we cannot list Alice and Brennan on the other Hook's pages.

      How do you know that everyone in the Wish Realm has the same parents? All we saw is that Emma and Henry did. No one else was given a family tree. There is absolutely no evidence for that assumption except inductive reasoning (I think I'm using that term correctly) -- because it was true once, it MUST be true every other time.

      Except we know inductive reasoning doesn't apply to the Wish Realm. Using inductive reasoning, Snow, Charming, Emma, Hook, and Pinocchio have all aged for the 28 years they would have been under the curse, so, therefore, everyone must have aged for those 28 years. And yet, Robin of Locksley exists, the same age he was after being frozen for 28 years. Furthermore, his history is different as Marian died before he became Robin Hood and they were never married.

      It's always safer and more encyclopedic to not assume when there is no clear evidence. And in this case, all we have is inductive reasoning, and that's not enough.

      Ages are very different from people's biological parents, we know ages can be altered with magic, but we haven't seen anything about changing parents with magic. Furthurmore, we have clear evidence from the show that Hook and WHook have the same past, as WHook states it on the show.
      Hook, Regina, and even WRumple have also stated that the Wish Realm is fake, but we know that's not true. The show has shown us repeatedly and consistently that the characters do not understand how the Wish Realm works. And how would WHook know the name of Hook's parents?

      The more reliable opposite of inductive reasoning is deductive reasoning. Deductive reasoning states that because we know some things in a given Wish person's history may be different from their counterpart's, that means anything in a given Wish person's history may be different from their counterpart's. With that in mind, we cannot assume anything that has not been outright stated. The name of WHook's father and Hook's mother have not been outright stated.

      Well, then we are going to be waiting a long time, because I don't think the writers have any intention of covering that, as to them it has already been covered. No one's name in the Wish Realm was different (including names that happened after the timeline had to be altered, like Emma and Henry), so to assume that the names of other characters may be different between EF Prime and Wish Realm would be a logical fallicy.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      DatNuttyKid wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      DatNuttyKid wrote:
      I agree that we cannot list Alice and Brennan on the other Hook's pages.

      How do you know that everyone in the Wish Realm has the same parents? All we saw is that Emma and Henry did. No one else was given a family tree. There is absolutely no evidence for that assumption except inductive reasoning (I think I'm using that term correctly) -- because it was true once, it MUST be true every other time.

      Except we know inductive reasoning doesn't apply to the Wish Realm. Using inductive reasoning, Snow, Charming, Emma, Hook, and Pinocchio have all aged for the 28 years they would have been under the curse, so, therefore, everyone must have aged for those 28 years. And yet, Robin of Locksley exists, the same age he was after being frozen for 28 years. Furthermore, his history is different as Marian died before he became Robin Hood and they were never married.

      It's always safer and more encyclopedic to not assume when there is no clear evidence. And in this case, all we have is inductive reasoning, and that's not enough.

      Ages are very different from people's biological parents, we know ages can be altered with magic, but we haven't seen anything about changing parents with magic. Furthurmore, we have clear evidence from the show that Hook and WHook have the same past, as WHook states it on the show.
      Hook, Regina, and even WRumple have also stated that the Wish Realm is fake, but we know that's not true. The show has shown us repeatedly and consistently that the characters do not understand how the Wish Realm works. And how would WHook know the name of Hook's parents?

      The more reliable opposite of inductive reasoning is deductive reasoning. Deductive reasoning states that because we know some things in a given Wish person's history may be different from their counterpart's, that means anything in a given Wish person's history may be different from their counterpart's. With that in mind, we cannot assume anything that has not been outright stated. The name of WHook's father and Hook's mother have not been outright stated.

      Well, then we are going to be waiting a long time, because I don't think the writers have any intention of covering that, as to them it has already been covered. No one's name in the Wish Realm was different (including names that happened after the timeline had to be altered, like Emma and Henry), so to assume that the names of other characters may be different between EF Prime and Wish Realm would be a logical fallicy.

      I don't have a problem with waiting forever. We're still waiting to find out who Lily's dad is, after all.

      No, a logical fallacy would be to assume that because it's true in these cases it must be true in every case. I'm pretty sure inductive reasoning actually literally counts as a logical fallacy.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • DatNuttyKid wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      DatNuttyKid wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      DatNuttyKid wrote:
      I agree that we cannot list Alice and Brennan on the other Hook's pages.

      How do you know that everyone in the Wish Realm has the same parents? All we saw is that Emma and Henry did. No one else was given a family tree. There is absolutely no evidence for that assumption except inductive reasoning (I think I'm using that term correctly) -- because it was true once, it MUST be true every other time.

      Except we know inductive reasoning doesn't apply to the Wish Realm. Using inductive reasoning, Snow, Charming, Emma, Hook, and Pinocchio have all aged for the 28 years they would have been under the curse, so, therefore, everyone must have aged for those 28 years. And yet, Robin of Locksley exists, the same age he was after being frozen for 28 years. Furthermore, his history is different as Marian died before he became Robin Hood and they were never married.

      It's always safer and more encyclopedic to not assume when there is no clear evidence. And in this case, all we have is inductive reasoning, and that's not enough.

      Ages are very different from people's biological parents, we know ages can be altered with magic, but we haven't seen anything about changing parents with magic. Furthurmore, we have clear evidence from the show that Hook and WHook have the same past, as WHook states it on the show.
      Hook, Regina, and even WRumple have also stated that the Wish Realm is fake, but we know that's not true. The show has shown us repeatedly and consistently that the characters do not understand how the Wish Realm works. And how would WHook know the name of Hook's parents?

      The more reliable opposite of inductive reasoning is deductive reasoning. Deductive reasoning states that because we know some things in a given Wish person's history may be different from their counterpart's, that means anything in a given Wish person's history may be different from their counterpart's. With that in mind, we cannot assume anything that has not been outright stated. The name of WHook's father and Hook's mother have not been outright stated.

      Well, then we are going to be waiting a long time, because I don't think the writers have any intention of covering that, as to them it has already been covered. No one's name in the Wish Realm was different (including names that happened after the timeline had to be altered, like Emma and Henry), so to assume that the names of other characters may be different between EF Prime and Wish Realm would be a logical fallicy.
      I don't have a problem with waiting forever. We're still waiting to find out who Lily's dad is, after all.

      No, a logical fallacy would be to assume that because it's true in these cases it must be true in every case. I'm pretty sure inductive reasoning actually literally counts as a logical fallacy.

      Lily is a minor character, Hook is not. And the point I was making is people are waiting for something that has already been answered by the writers. It makes the wiki look bad when we don't have basic information about family trees, even when the show tells us the backstory is the same (WHook literally says his and Hook's past were the same to a point). I guess I just don't understand people's thought process on this. To me there is no way parents can be different between EF Prime and Wish Realm, because that's just not how biology works. And the arguement that someone could be the same person, but go by a different name in WR, is super flimsy. Like why would Hook's mom be named differently in the WR than EF Prime? What would have changed that on one of the two timelines?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      DatNuttyKid wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      DatNuttyKid wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      DatNuttyKid wrote:
      I agree that we cannot list Alice and Brennan on the other Hook's pages.

      How do you know that everyone in the Wish Realm has the same parents? All we saw is that Emma and Henry did. No one else was given a family tree. There is absolutely no evidence for that assumption except inductive reasoning (I think I'm using that term correctly) -- because it was true once, it MUST be true every other time.

      Except we know inductive reasoning doesn't apply to the Wish Realm. Using inductive reasoning, Snow, Charming, Emma, Hook, and Pinocchio have all aged for the 28 years they would have been under the curse, so, therefore, everyone must have aged for those 28 years. And yet, Robin of Locksley exists, the same age he was after being frozen for 28 years. Furthermore, his history is different as Marian died before he became Robin Hood and they were never married.

      It's always safer and more encyclopedic to not assume when there is no clear evidence. And in this case, all we have is inductive reasoning, and that's not enough.

      Ages are very different from people's biological parents, we know ages can be altered with magic, but we haven't seen anything about changing parents with magic. Furthurmore, we have clear evidence from the show that Hook and WHook have the same past, as WHook states it on the show.
      Hook, Regina, and even WRumple have also stated that the Wish Realm is fake, but we know that's not true. The show has shown us repeatedly and consistently that the characters do not understand how the Wish Realm works. And how would WHook know the name of Hook's parents?

      The more reliable opposite of inductive reasoning is deductive reasoning. Deductive reasoning states that because we know some things in a given Wish person's history may be different from their counterpart's, that means anything in a given Wish person's history may be different from their counterpart's. With that in mind, we cannot assume anything that has not been outright stated. The name of WHook's father and Hook's mother have not been outright stated.

      Well, then we are going to be waiting a long time, because I don't think the writers have any intention of covering that, as to them it has already been covered. No one's name in the Wish Realm was different (including names that happened after the timeline had to be altered, like Emma and Henry), so to assume that the names of other characters may be different between EF Prime and Wish Realm would be a logical fallicy.
      I don't have a problem with waiting forever. We're still waiting to find out who Lily's dad is, after all.

      No, a logical fallacy would be to assume that because it's true in these cases it must be true in every case. I'm pretty sure inductive reasoning actually literally counts as a logical fallacy.

      Lily is a minor character, Hook is not. And the point I was making is people are waiting for something that has already been answered by the writers. It makes the wiki look bad when we don't have basic information about family trees, even when the show tells us the backstory is the same (WHook literally says his and Hook's past were the same to a point). I guess I just don't understand people's thought process on this. To me there is no way parents can be different between EF Prime and Wish Realm, because that's just not how biology works. And the arguement that someone could be the same person, but go by a different name in WR, is super flimsy. Like why would Hook's mom be named differently in the WR than EF Prime? What would have changed that on one of the two timelines?

      What would have changed to make Robin and the Sheriff of Nottingham 28 years younger? What would have changed to cause Marian to die? What would have changed to make Neal and Emma meet, fall in love, and have a kid in the Enchanted Forest even though Neal should be in the Land Without Magic? For that matter, what would have changed to cause Regina to fail to cast the curse in the first place? They haven't told us, and can't assume.

      I don't get what's so hard to understand. We know that not everything is the same in the Wish Realm. There's more potential for us to be wrong if we assume than if we just leave it vague. We're not saying that Hook's mom isn't named Alice. We're just saying that we don't know. And we don't.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I agree with @CoolDudeAl on this. Original Hook is not going to have a different mom than Wish Hook. They are biologically the same person, therefore, their parents will be the same. And the writers have said things in the Wish Realm happened the same as in the EF until a certain point when things began to change. And Hook was born way before that time. There really isn't any reason why Original Hook's mother wouldn't be named Alice if Wish Hook's mother is since Wish Hook is essentially a clone of Original Hook that happened to lead the same life as his duplicate until he didn't. That would include the name of his mother.  Saying Original Hook's mother is named Alice isn't assuming anything because there is no reason the wish would have changed her name. I really think someone should ask Adam or one of the other writers about this though.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • DatNuttyKid wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      DatNuttyKid wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      DatNuttyKid wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      DatNuttyKid wrote:
      I agree that we cannot list Alice and Brennan on the other Hook's pages.

      How do you know that everyone in the Wish Realm has the same parents? All we saw is that Emma and Henry did. No one else was given a family tree. There is absolutely no evidence for that assumption except inductive reasoning (I think I'm using that term correctly) -- because it was true once, it MUST be true every other time.

      Except we know inductive reasoning doesn't apply to the Wish Realm. Using inductive reasoning, Snow, Charming, Emma, Hook, and Pinocchio have all aged for the 28 years they would have been under the curse, so, therefore, everyone must have aged for those 28 years. And yet, Robin of Locksley exists, the same age he was after being frozen for 28 years. Furthermore, his history is different as Marian died before he became Robin Hood and they were never married.

      It's always safer and more encyclopedic to not assume when there is no clear evidence. And in this case, all we have is inductive reasoning, and that's not enough.

      Ages are very different from people's biological parents, we know ages can be altered with magic, but we haven't seen anything about changing parents with magic. Furthurmore, we have clear evidence from the show that Hook and WHook have the same past, as WHook states it on the show.
      Hook, Regina, and even WRumple have also stated that the Wish Realm is fake, but we know that's not true. The show has shown us repeatedly and consistently that the characters do not understand how the Wish Realm works. And how would WHook know the name of Hook's parents?

      The more reliable opposite of inductive reasoning is deductive reasoning. Deductive reasoning states that because we know some things in a given Wish person's history may be different from their counterpart's, that means anything in a given Wish person's history may be different from their counterpart's. With that in mind, we cannot assume anything that has not been outright stated. The name of WHook's father and Hook's mother have not been outright stated.

      Well, then we are going to be waiting a long time, because I don't think the writers have any intention of covering that, as to them it has already been covered. No one's name in the Wish Realm was different (including names that happened after the timeline had to be altered, like Emma and Henry), so to assume that the names of other characters may be different between EF Prime and Wish Realm would be a logical fallicy.
      I don't have a problem with waiting forever. We're still waiting to find out who Lily's dad is, after all.

      No, a logical fallacy would be to assume that because it's true in these cases it must be true in every case. I'm pretty sure inductive reasoning actually literally counts as a logical fallacy.

      Lily is a minor character, Hook is not. And the point I was making is people are waiting for something that has already been answered by the writers. It makes the wiki look bad when we don't have basic information about family trees, even when the show tells us the backstory is the same (WHook literally says his and Hook's past were the same to a point). I guess I just don't understand people's thought process on this. To me there is no way parents can be different between EF Prime and Wish Realm, because that's just not how biology works. And the arguement that someone could be the same person, but go by a different name in WR, is super flimsy. Like why would Hook's mom be named differently in the WR than EF Prime? What would have changed that on one of the two timelines?
      What would have changed to make Robin and the Sheriff of Nottingham 28 years younger? What would have changed to cause Marian to die? What would have changed to make Neal and Emma meet, fall in love, and have a kid in the Enchanted Forest even though Neal should be in the Land Without Magic? For that matter, what would have changed to cause Regina to fail to cast the curse in the first place? They haven't told us, and can't assume.

      I don't get what's so hard to understand. We know that not everything is the same in the Wish Realm. There's more potential for us to be wrong if we assume than if we just leave it vague. We're not saying that Hook's mom isn't named Alice. We're just saying that we don't know. And we don't.

      We know the Wish Realm is never going to make 100% sense, so some of those things are going to remain oddities, and I don't think the writers have a good answer. But the things you list are very different than someone's biological parents. And in the case of parents (and even relationships in general) we saw everything stayed the same. Snow and Charming still had Emma as a daughter. Emma and Neal still had Henry as a son. Snow was still friends with the dwaves. Pinnocio's father was still Gepetto. Hook and Smee were still friends. Regina still had a feud with Snow. Robin still loved Marian. Rumple still loved Belle. Etc. If we are really worried about the chance that we are wrong, we can put an asterick, saying that based on WHook, real Hook's mother should be Alice, and vise versa, on the family trees. But I am 100% sure the writers didn't intend for people to think Hook and WHook's parents were different.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      DatNuttyKid wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      DatNuttyKid wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      DatNuttyKid wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      DatNuttyKid wrote:
      I agree that we cannot list Alice and Brennan on the other Hook's pages.

      How do you know that everyone in the Wish Realm has the same parents? All we saw is that Emma and Henry did. No one else was given a family tree. There is absolutely no evidence for that assumption except inductive reasoning (I think I'm using that term correctly) -- because it was true once, it MUST be true every other time.

      Except we know inductive reasoning doesn't apply to the Wish Realm. Using inductive reasoning, Snow, Charming, Emma, Hook, and Pinocchio have all aged for the 28 years they would have been under the curse, so, therefore, everyone must have aged for those 28 years. And yet, Robin of Locksley exists, the same age he was after being frozen for 28 years. Furthermore, his history is different as Marian died before he became Robin Hood and they were never married.

      It's always safer and more encyclopedic to not assume when there is no clear evidence. And in this case, all we have is inductive reasoning, and that's not enough.

      Ages are very different from people's biological parents, we know ages can be altered with magic, but we haven't seen anything about changing parents with magic. Furthurmore, we have clear evidence from the show that Hook and WHook have the same past, as WHook states it on the show.
      Hook, Regina, and even WRumple have also stated that the Wish Realm is fake, but we know that's not true. The show has shown us repeatedly and consistently that the characters do not understand how the Wish Realm works. And how would WHook know the name of Hook's parents?

      The more reliable opposite of inductive reasoning is deductive reasoning. Deductive reasoning states that because we know some things in a given Wish person's history may be different from their counterpart's, that means anything in a given Wish person's history may be different from their counterpart's. With that in mind, we cannot assume anything that has not been outright stated. The name of WHook's father and Hook's mother have not been outright stated.

      Well, then we are going to be waiting a long time, because I don't think the writers have any intention of covering that, as to them it has already been covered. No one's name in the Wish Realm was different (including names that happened after the timeline had to be altered, like Emma and Henry), so to assume that the names of other characters may be different between EF Prime and Wish Realm would be a logical fallicy.
      I don't have a problem with waiting forever. We're still waiting to find out who Lily's dad is, after all.

      No, a logical fallacy would be to assume that because it's true in these cases it must be true in every case. I'm pretty sure inductive reasoning actually literally counts as a logical fallacy.

      Lily is a minor character, Hook is not. And the point I was making is people are waiting for something that has already been answered by the writers. It makes the wiki look bad when we don't have basic information about family trees, even when the show tells us the backstory is the same (WHook literally says his and Hook's past were the same to a point). I guess I just don't understand people's thought process on this. To me there is no way parents can be different between EF Prime and Wish Realm, because that's just not how biology works. And the arguement that someone could be the same person, but go by a different name in WR, is super flimsy. Like why would Hook's mom be named differently in the WR than EF Prime? What would have changed that on one of the two timelines?
      What would have changed to make Robin and the Sheriff of Nottingham 28 years younger? What would have changed to cause Marian to die? What would have changed to make Neal and Emma meet, fall in love, and have a kid in the Enchanted Forest even though Neal should be in the Land Without Magic? For that matter, what would have changed to cause Regina to fail to cast the curse in the first place? They haven't told us, and can't assume.

      I don't get what's so hard to understand. We know that not everything is the same in the Wish Realm. There's more potential for us to be wrong if we assume than if we just leave it vague. We're not saying that Hook's mom isn't named Alice. We're just saying that we don't know. And we don't.

      We know the Wish Realm is never going to make 100% sense, so some of those things are going to remain oddities, and I don't think the writers have a good answer. But the things you list are very different than someone's biological parents. And in the case of parents (and even relationships in general) we saw everything stayed the same. Snow and Charming still had Emma as a daughter. Emma and Neal still had Henry as a son. Snow was still friends with the dwaves. Pinnocio's father was still Gepetto. Hook and Smee were still friends. Regina still had a feud with Snow. Robin still loved Marian. Rumple still loved Belle. Etc. If we are really worried about the chance that we are wrong, we can put an asterick, saying that based on WHook, real Hook's mother should be Alice, and vise versa, on the family trees. But I am 100% sure the writers didn't intend for people to think Hook and WHook's parents were different.

      You're still using inductive reasoning. Just because we've seen it's been true sometimes, that does not automatically make it true every time.

      Why don't you reach out to the writers on Twitter? Most of them will respond to inquiries like this. At this point, we've both made our points clear and are merely repeating ourselves. I don't get why you have such a big problem with us ever leaving anything vague, but I don't care to continue a discussion where we're just talking in circles.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • DatNuttyKid wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      DatNuttyKid wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      DatNuttyKid wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      DatNuttyKid wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      DatNuttyKid wrote:
      I agree that we cannot list Alice and Brennan on the other Hook's pages.

      How do you know that everyone in the Wish Realm has the same parents? All we saw is that Emma and Henry did. No one else was given a family tree. There is absolutely no evidence for that assumption except inductive reasoning (I think I'm using that term correctly) -- because it was true once, it MUST be true every other time.

      Except we know inductive reasoning doesn't apply to the Wish Realm. Using inductive reasoning, Snow, Charming, Emma, Hook, and Pinocchio have all aged for the 28 years they would have been under the curse, so, therefore, everyone must have aged for those 28 years. And yet, Robin of Locksley exists, the same age he was after being frozen for 28 years. Furthermore, his history is different as Marian died before he became Robin Hood and they were never married.

      It's always safer and more encyclopedic to not assume when there is no clear evidence. And in this case, all we have is inductive reasoning, and that's not enough.

      Ages are very different from people's biological parents, we know ages can be altered with magic, but we haven't seen anything about changing parents with magic. Furthurmore, we have clear evidence from the show that Hook and WHook have the same past, as WHook states it on the show.
      Hook, Regina, and even WRumple have also stated that the Wish Realm is fake, but we know that's not true. The show has shown us repeatedly and consistently that the characters do not understand how the Wish Realm works. And how would WHook know the name of Hook's parents?

      The more reliable opposite of inductive reasoning is deductive reasoning. Deductive reasoning states that because we know some things in a given Wish person's history may be different from their counterpart's, that means anything in a given Wish person's history may be different from their counterpart's. With that in mind, we cannot assume anything that has not been outright stated. The name of WHook's father and Hook's mother have not been outright stated.

      Well, then we are going to be waiting a long time, because I don't think the writers have any intention of covering that, as to them it has already been covered. No one's name in the Wish Realm was different (including names that happened after the timeline had to be altered, like Emma and Henry), so to assume that the names of other characters may be different between EF Prime and Wish Realm would be a logical fallicy.
      I don't have a problem with waiting forever. We're still waiting to find out who Lily's dad is, after all.

      No, a logical fallacy would be to assume that because it's true in these cases it must be true in every case. I'm pretty sure inductive reasoning actually literally counts as a logical fallacy.

      Lily is a minor character, Hook is not. And the point I was making is people are waiting for something that has already been answered by the writers. It makes the wiki look bad when we don't have basic information about family trees, even when the show tells us the backstory is the same (WHook literally says his and Hook's past were the same to a point). I guess I just don't understand people's thought process on this. To me there is no way parents can be different between EF Prime and Wish Realm, because that's just not how biology works. And the arguement that someone could be the same person, but go by a different name in WR, is super flimsy. Like why would Hook's mom be named differently in the WR than EF Prime? What would have changed that on one of the two timelines?
      What would have changed to make Robin and the Sheriff of Nottingham 28 years younger? What would have changed to cause Marian to die? What would have changed to make Neal and Emma meet, fall in love, and have a kid in the Enchanted Forest even though Neal should be in the Land Without Magic? For that matter, what would have changed to cause Regina to fail to cast the curse in the first place? They haven't told us, and can't assume.

      I don't get what's so hard to understand. We know that not everything is the same in the Wish Realm. There's more potential for us to be wrong if we assume than if we just leave it vague. We're not saying that Hook's mom isn't named Alice. We're just saying that we don't know. And we don't.

      We know the Wish Realm is never going to make 100% sense, so some of those things are going to remain oddities, and I don't think the writers have a good answer. But the things you list are very different than someone's biological parents. And in the case of parents (and even relationships in general) we saw everything stayed the same. Snow and Charming still had Emma as a daughter. Emma and Neal still had Henry as a son. Snow was still friends with the dwaves. Pinnocio's father was still Gepetto. Hook and Smee were still friends. Regina still had a feud with Snow. Robin still loved Marian. Rumple still loved Belle. Etc. If we are really worried about the chance that we are wrong, we can put an asterick, saying that based on WHook, real Hook's mother should be Alice, and vise versa, on the family trees. But I am 100% sure the writers didn't intend for people to think Hook and WHook's parents were different.
      You're still using inductive reasoning. Just because we've seen it's been true sometimes, that does not automatically make it true every time.

      Why don't you reach out to the writers on Twitter? Most of them will respond to inquiries like this. At this point, we've both made our points clear and are merely repeating ourselves. I don't get why you have such a big problem with us ever leaving anything vague, but I don't care to continue a discussion where we're just talking in circles.

      I don't use Twitter. If someone would like to reach out to the writers they are more than welcome to. I don't get why people have a problem admitting that parents don't change for people who are biologically clones of one another. XD

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I realllllly don't know why people are making it so complicated.

      The wish peoples' paths diverged when Regina did not cast the curse. They've stated this and showed it, especially in regards to Wish Hook. Regina casting or not casting the curse has no effect whatsoever on who Hook was born to HUNDREDS of years prior. His conception was not the point of divergence they set up for the wish world.

      Believing that his parents are still Brennan and Alice is not false reasoning or a hasty assumption - that's literally how they set it up. Yes, there are inconsistencies with anything wish-related, but I don't see any that would be related to Hook's parents. You guys would basically be saying that because Regina didn't cast the curse, suddenly Hook's biological makeup changed right then and there and he got a new mother. That doesn't make any sense. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • JennaMae wrote: I realllllly don't know why people are making it so complicated.

      The wish peoples' paths diverged when Regina did not cast the curse. They've stated this and showed it, especially in regards to Wish Hook. Regina casting or not casting the curse has no effect whatsoever on who Hook was born to HUNDREDS of years prior. His conception was not the point of divergence they set up for the wish world.

      Believing that his parents are still Brennan and Alice is not false reasoning or a hasty assumption - that's literally how they set it up. Yes, there are inconsistencies with anything wish-related, but I don't see any that would be related to Hook's parents. You guys would basically be saying that because Regina didn't cast the curse, suddenly Hook's biological makeup changed right then and there and he got a new mother. That doesn't make any sense. 

      Exactly

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • We know that the Dark Curse is one of many different factors in the Wish Realm. Robin Hood was born 28 years later than he was in the EF, Sheriff of Nottingham is also young too, Granny also must have been born later since she looked the same, and Stealthy was still alive. These are all different to the EF 

      I understand why it makes sense Alice Sr. must be Hook's mother, but maybe in the EF, she goes by a different name (and vice versa for Brennan).

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Lola987 wrote: We know that the Dark Curse is one of many different factors in the Wish Realm. Robin Hood was born 28 years later than he was in the EF, Sheriff of Nottingham is also young too, Granny also must have been born later since she looked the same, and Stealthy was still alive. These are all different to the EF.

      Those ain't facts that everything before the failed curse was different from EF.

      For example: Robin Hood wasn't born 28 years later but just stole (-> thief :o) some potion (Age Manipulation is possible), Sheriff of Nottingham did the same?, Granny just looks good for her age ^_^ (or Werewolves live a bit longer) & the dwarves found a way to resurrect Stealthy, guess that's possible (Daniel, Mal, Blue, Hook, Ana, .......)

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Rubenvst wrote:

      Lola987 wrote: We know that the Dark Curse is one of many different factors in the Wish Realm. Robin Hood was born 28 years later than he was in the EF, Sheriff of Nottingham is also young too, Granny also must have been born later since she looked the same, and Stealthy was still alive. These are all different to the EF.

      Those ain't facts that everything before the failed curse was different from EF.

      For example: Robin Hood wasn't born 28 years later but just stole (-> thief :o) some potion (Age Manipulation is possible), Sheriff of Nottingham did the same?, Granny just looks good for her age ^_^ (or Werewolves live a bit longer) & the dwarves found a way to resurrect Stealthy, guess that's possible (Daniel, Mal, Blue, Hook, Ana, .......)


      Not everything. But they are definitely enough to cast suspicion on all unstated/unproven elements.

      And the names of WHook/Hook's parents definitelly fall into that category.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • A few points

      1) Despite what WHook said, the Wish Realm is NOT a realm about the Dark Curse being or not being cast. It is a realm where Emma is not the Savior. Period. That is what Queenie wished for, that's what we saw. WHook has ZERO chance to know whatever happened to EF Hook, so his claim that their lives were the same up to a point has no value, it was minor dialogue that can't serve for us to base the whole dynamics of the WR on.

      2) This was already discussed (not that it can't be brought up again, fine). Just like the discussion about WSmee being or not being named William. The thing is we DO NOT know. We have no valid source, and if even Gold calling Belle Mrs. Gold isn't enough for her to be renamed as Belle Gold then we most definitely CANNOT go around assuming names or whatever else are interchangeable between EF and WR. As everyone else pointed, WRoland doesn't exist, for instance, meaning that who can say that EF Alice exists? Couldn't EF Hook's grandparents have had one daughter while WHook's grandparents had two? People can have more or less children in one reality or another.

      3) Ages vary. History vary. Why should we pretend that anything remained the same then? Apparently, there are still seven dwarves, but no WHappy. I mean, the whole WR is probably one of the hugest plot holes in history, but the wiki can't use that as an excuse to treat information as it suits better or more "comfortable". The policies and logics state that nothing can be added unless we have a source. That alone should be enough for us to avoid including any information that was not explicitly presented. About names, let's remember that the subjects didn't even know David's name in EF (as proved in 213), because he went by James. Yet, 611 shows that he was already called Prince David in WR. So, anyone could argue that Alice could be an alias because she was wanted for murder or whatever. She could be known as Alice there and actually be named Gertrude in EF. Who knows?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I like using these types of reasoning and I, personally, think Hook's family tree is the same. But..

      1. We need a source (to be consistent)

      2. The biggest evidence used is that everything was the same ala Wish Hook's statement.

      You can get away with Stealthy existing, youthful Robin, and a lot of stuff because...we saw them post curse attempt. But we have a key piece of evidence that says that things were not the same before the curse: Roland.

      Roland was born years before the curse (and Marian married Robin long before the curse). That's enough to discredit that idea becuase you can explain a young Robin post-curse fail, but not the story being different before the curse fail.

      3. As was said, the wish was not being the Savior, not "What if the Curse failed".

      4. As I and others have now said, Wish Hook isn't omniscient, so he has no clue what real Hook went through. With the amount of unreliable characters, I think we need more than a vague statement which already has counter-evidence.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • FrancisPaul wrote:
      A few points

      1) Despite what WHook said, the Wish Realm is NOT a realm about the Dark Curse being or not being cast. It is a realm where Emma is not the Savior. Period. That is what Queenie wished for, that's what we saw. WHook has ZERO chance to know whatever happened to EF Hook, so his claim that their lives were the same up to a point has no value, it was minor dialogue that can't serve for us to base the whole dynamics of the WR on.

      The writers specifically put in that dialog, so we wouldn't be having the arguement we are having now. Why else would they have him say that?

      2) This was already discussed (not that it can't be brought up again, fine). Just like the discussion about WSmee being or not being named William. The thing is we DO NOT know. We have no valid source, and if even Gold calling Belle Mrs. Gold isn't enough for her to be renamed as Belle Gold then we most definitely CANNOT go around assuming names or whatever else are interchangeable between EF and WR. As everyone else pointed, WRoland doesn't exist, for instance, meaning that who can say that EF Alice exists? Couldn't EF Hook's grandparents have had one daughter while WHook's grandparents had two? People can have more or less children in one reality or another.

      We have no proof that anyone's name was changed in the Wish Realm, so I disagree about how to handle WSmee as well, now that you pointed that out. WRoland doesn't exist because Marian died before he was born. It doesn't mean he wouldn't have been named Roland, if he had been born. WHenry is still named Henry, and that really makes no sense considering Regina and her reason for naming him that.

      3) Ages vary. History vary. Why should we pretend that anything remained the same then? Apparently, there are still seven dwarves, but no WHappy. I mean, the whole WR is probably one of the hugest plot holes in history, but the wiki can't use that as an excuse to treat information as it suits better or more "comfortable". The policies and logics state that nothing can be added unless we have a source. That alone should be enough for us to avoid including any information that was not explicitly presented. About names, let's remember that the subjects didn't even know David's name in EF (as proved in 213), because he went by James. Yet, 611 shows that he was already called Prince David in WR. So, anyone could argue that Alice could be an alias because she was wanted for murder or whatever. She could be known as Alice there and actually be named Gertrude in EF. Who knows?

      You are right that the Wish Realm does vary before the Dark Curse was cast, but all the variance is so Emma doesn't have to become the Savior, so there is no reason for events to be different before her parents (Snow and David) are even born. As we know, Hook is hundreds of years older than Snow and David, so to say that his mother is going by an Alice in WR, and not in normal EF, is just ridiculous.

      Answered in bold.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Does not change this very basic guideline: from the moment that there is a doubt, we can't add it as a fact. Whatever we choose to believe on this question, it changes nothing. This entire thread and the previous discussion are proof of that. If it was as clear and easy as some pretend it is, these discussions would not happen and would not be so divisive.

      There are enough of uncertainties to challenge the info. Meaning that, at this point, without a clear source from the writers, it just can't be resolved or simply added as a fact.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      FrancisPaul wrote:
      A few points

      1) Despite what WHook said, the Wish Realm is NOT a realm about the Dark Curse being or not being cast. It is a realm where Emma is not the Savior. Period. That is what Queenie wished for, that's what we saw. WHook has ZERO chance to know whatever happened to EF Hook, so his claim that their lives were the same up to a point has no value, it was minor dialogue that can't serve for us to base the whole dynamics of the WR on.

      The writers specifically put in that dialog, so we wouldn't be having the arguement we are having now. Why else would they have him say that?

      The writers also specifically put in the dialog that the Wish Realm was fake. Multiple times. The characters DO NOT understand how the Wish Realm works and that has been repeatedly proven and shown. If they put in the dialog when it is later proven to be false, the reason they included it would be to further cement that already painfully obvious point.

      2) This was already discussed (not that it can't be brought up again, fine). Just like the discussion about WSmee being or not being named William. The thing is we DO NOT know. We have no valid source, and if even Gold calling Belle Mrs. Gold isn't enough for her to be renamed as Belle Gold then we most definitely CANNOT go around assuming names or whatever else are interchangeable between EF and WR. As everyone else pointed, WRoland doesn't exist, for instance, meaning that who can say that EF Alice exists? Couldn't EF Hook's grandparents have had one daughter while WHook's grandparents had two? People can have more or less children in one reality or another.

      We have no proof that anyone's name was changed in the Wish Realm, so I disagree about how to handle WSmee as well, now that you pointed that out. WRoland doesn't exist because Marian died before he was born. It doesn't mean he wouldn't have been named Roland, if he had been born. WHenry is still named Henry, and that really makes no sense considering Regina and her reason for naming him that.

      But just because Henry is named Henry doesn't mean Roland WOULD have been named Roland. That's not evidence. That's an assumption and a huge one. It is not encyclopedic nor reliable to say, "Just because it's been true every time means it will always be true forever!" If that were the case, Robin would be 28 years older. Roland would have been born. Stealthy would have been dead. Etc.

      3) Ages vary. History vary. Why should we pretend that anything remained the same then? Apparently, there are still seven dwarves, but no WHappy. I mean, the whole WR is probably one of the hugest plot holes in history, but the wiki can't use that as an excuse to treat information as it suits better or more "comfortable". The policies and logics state that nothing can be added unless we have a source. That alone should be enough for us to avoid including any information that was not explicitly presented. About names, let's remember that the subjects didn't even know David's name in EF (as proved in 213), because he went by James. Yet, 611 shows that he was already called Prince David in WR. So, anyone could argue that Alice could be an alias because she was wanted for murder or whatever. She could be known as Alice there and actually be named Gertrude in EF. Who knows?

      You are right that the Wish Realm does vary before the Dark Curse was cast, but all the variance is so Emma doesn't have to become the Savior, so there is no reason for events to be different before her parents (Snow and David) are even born. As we know, Hook is hundreds of years older than Snow and David, so to say that his mother is going by an Alice in WR, and not in normal EF, is just ridiculous.

      What does Stealthy surviving have to do with Emma becoming the Savior? What does Marian dying have to do with Emma becoming the Savior? There is no consistent logic to the Wish Realm. It's been repeatedly proven that assumptions made about the Wish Realm are dangerous and likely to be wrong. With that in mind, as an encyclopedia that strives to represent factual information, it is not only safer but more reliable to our readers to not claim facts that we can't back up.

      Answered in bold.

      Answered in bold underline.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • FrancisPaul wrote:

      3) Ages vary. History vary. Why should we pretend that anything remained the same then? Apparently, there are still seven dwarves, but no WHappy. I mean, the whole WR is probably one of the hugest plot holes in history, but the wiki can't use that as an excuse to treat information as it suits better or more "comfortable". The policies and logics state that nothing can be added unless we have a source. That alone should be enough for us to avoid including any information that was not explicitly presented. About names, let's remember that the subjects didn't even know David's name in EF (as proved in 213), because he went by James. Yet, 611 shows that he was already called Prince David in WR. So, anyone could argue that Alice could be an alias because she was wanted for murder or whatever. She could be known as Alice there and actually be named Gertrude in EF. Who knows?

      Forgot to mention earlier, we didn't see WHappy or WDopey, but it doesn't mean they don't exist, just that we didn't see them.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Lady Junky wrote:
      Does not change this very basic guideline: from the moment that there is a doubt, we can't add it as a fact. Whatever we choose to believe on this question, it changes nothing. This entire thread and the previous discussion are proof of that. If it was as clear and easy as some pretend it is, these discussions would not happen and would not be so divisive.

      There are enough of uncertainties to challenge the info. Meaning that, at this point, without a clear source from the writers, it just can't be resolved or simply added as a fact.

      Well, has anyone tried asking the writers?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • DatNuttyKid wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      FrancisPaul wrote:
      A few points

      1) Despite what WHook said, the Wish Realm is NOT a realm about the Dark Curse being or not being cast. It is a realm where Emma is not the Savior. Period. That is what Queenie wished for, that's what we saw. WHook has ZERO chance to know whatever happened to EF Hook, so his claim that their lives were the same up to a point has no value, it was minor dialogue that can't serve for us to base the whole dynamics of the WR on.

      The writers specifically put in that dialog, so we wouldn't be having the arguement we are having now. Why else would they have him say that?

      The writers also specifically put in the dialog that the Wish Realm was fake. Multiple times. The characters DO NOT understand how the Wish Realm works and that has been repeatedly proven and shown. If they put in the dialog when it is later proven to be false, the reason they included it would be to further cement that already painfully obvious point.

      2) This was already discussed (not that it can't be brought up again, fine). Just like the discussion about WSmee being or not being named William. The thing is we DO NOT know. We have no valid source, and if even Gold calling Belle Mrs. Gold isn't enough for her to be renamed as Belle Gold then we most definitely CANNOT go around assuming names or whatever else are interchangeable between EF and WR. As everyone else pointed, WRoland doesn't exist, for instance, meaning that who can say that EF Alice exists? Couldn't EF Hook's grandparents have had one daughter while WHook's grandparents had two? People can have more or less children in one reality or another.

      We have no proof that anyone's name was changed in the Wish Realm, so I disagree about how to handle WSmee as well, now that you pointed that out. WRoland doesn't exist because Marian died before he was born. It doesn't mean he wouldn't have been named Roland, if he had been born. WHenry is still named Henry, and that really makes no sense considering Regina and her reason for naming him that.

      But just because Henry is named Henry doesn't mean Roland WOULD have been named Roland. That's not evidence. That's an assumption and a huge one. It is not encyclopedic nor reliable to say, "Just because it's been true every time means it will always be true forever!" If that were the case, Robin would be 28 years older. Roland would have been born. Stealthy would have been dead. Etc.

      3) Ages vary. History vary. Why should we pretend that anything remained the same then? Apparently, there are still seven dwarves, but no WHappy. I mean, the whole WR is probably one of the hugest plot holes in history, but the wiki can't use that as an excuse to treat information as it suits better or more "comfortable". The policies and logics state that nothing can be added unless we have a source. That alone should be enough for us to avoid including any information that was not explicitly presented. About names, let's remember that the subjects didn't even know David's name in EF (as proved in 213), because he went by James. Yet, 611 shows that he was already called Prince David in WR. So, anyone could argue that Alice could be an alias because she was wanted for murder or whatever. She could be known as Alice there and actually be named Gertrude in EF. Who knows?

      You are right that the Wish Realm does vary before the Dark Curse was cast, but all the variance is so Emma doesn't have to become the Savior, so there is no reason for events to be different before her parents (Snow and David) are even born. As we know, Hook is hundreds of years older than Snow and David, so to say that his mother is going by an Alice in WR, and not in normal EF, is just ridiculous.

      What does Stealthy surviving have to do with Emma becoming the Savior? What does Marian dying have to do with Emma becoming the Savior? There is no consistent logic to the Wish Realm. It's been repeatedly proven that assumptions made about the Wish Realm are dangerous and likely to be wrong. With that in mind, as an encyclopedia that strives to represent factual information, it is not only safer but more reliable to our readers to not claim facts that we can't back up.

      Answered in bold.
      Answered in bold underline.

      My only comment is if the character's dialog means nothing (and the dialog comes directly from the writers), than how can we trust anything on the show? Guess we should just delete everything on all the pages then.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      DatNuttyKid wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      FrancisPaul wrote:
      A few points

      1) Despite what WHook said, the Wish Realm is NOT a realm about the Dark Curse being or not being cast. It is a realm where Emma is not the Savior. Period. That is what Queenie wished for, that's what we saw. WHook has ZERO chance to know whatever happened to EF Hook, so his claim that their lives were the same up to a point has no value, it was minor dialogue that can't serve for us to base the whole dynamics of the WR on.

      The writers specifically put in that dialog, so we wouldn't be having the arguement we are having now. Why else would they have him say that?

      The writers also specifically put in the dialog that the Wish Realm was fake. Multiple times. The characters DO NOT understand how the Wish Realm works and that has been repeatedly proven and shown. If they put in the dialog when it is later proven to be false, the reason they included it would be to further cement that already painfully obvious point.

      2) This was already discussed (not that it can't be brought up again, fine). Just like the discussion about WSmee being or not being named William. The thing is we DO NOT know. We have no valid source, and if even Gold calling Belle Mrs. Gold isn't enough for her to be renamed as Belle Gold then we most definitely CANNOT go around assuming names or whatever else are interchangeable between EF and WR. As everyone else pointed, WRoland doesn't exist, for instance, meaning that who can say that EF Alice exists? Couldn't EF Hook's grandparents have had one daughter while WHook's grandparents had two? People can have more or less children in one reality or another.

      We have no proof that anyone's name was changed in the Wish Realm, so I disagree about how to handle WSmee as well, now that you pointed that out. WRoland doesn't exist because Marian died before he was born. It doesn't mean he wouldn't have been named Roland, if he had been born. WHenry is still named Henry, and that really makes no sense considering Regina and her reason for naming him that.

      But just because Henry is named Henry doesn't mean Roland WOULD have been named Roland. That's not evidence. That's an assumption and a huge one. It is not encyclopedic nor reliable to say, "Just because it's been true every time means it will always be true forever!" If that were the case, Robin would be 28 years older. Roland would have been born. Stealthy would have been dead. Etc.

      3) Ages vary. History vary. Why should we pretend that anything remained the same then? Apparently, there are still seven dwarves, but no WHappy. I mean, the whole WR is probably one of the hugest plot holes in history, but the wiki can't use that as an excuse to treat information as it suits better or more "comfortable". The policies and logics state that nothing can be added unless we have a source. That alone should be enough for us to avoid including any information that was not explicitly presented. About names, let's remember that the subjects didn't even know David's name in EF (as proved in 213), because he went by James. Yet, 611 shows that he was already called Prince David in WR. So, anyone could argue that Alice could be an alias because she was wanted for murder or whatever. She could be known as Alice there and actually be named Gertrude in EF. Who knows?

      You are right that the Wish Realm does vary before the Dark Curse was cast, but all the variance is so Emma doesn't have to become the Savior, so there is no reason for events to be different before her parents (Snow and David) are even born. As we know, Hook is hundreds of years older than Snow and David, so to say that his mother is going by an Alice in WR, and not in normal EF, is just ridiculous.

      What does Stealthy surviving have to do with Emma becoming the Savior? What does Marian dying have to do with Emma becoming the Savior? There is no consistent logic to the Wish Realm. It's been repeatedly proven that assumptions made about the Wish Realm are dangerous and likely to be wrong. With that in mind, as an encyclopedia that strives to represent factual information, it is not only safer but more reliable to our readers to not claim facts that we can't back up.

      Answered in bold.
      Answered in bold underline.
      My only comment is if the character's dialog means nothing (and the dialog comes directly from the writers), than how can we trust anything on the show? Guess we should just delete everything on all the pages then.

      This is called a "slippery slope" argument. Also a logical fallacy.

      It's only an issue when there's precedent for the character being wrong. We know that Rumple has a good idea of how the Dark One works, so we can trust whatever he says about that. It seems that Regina has a good idea of how the Dark Curse works, so we can pretty much trust whatever she says about that. However, repeatedly it has been shown that the characters do not understand the Wish Realm.

      Furthermore, the statements you're citing are vague in and of themselves, even barring the pre-existing Wish Realm debacle. How would Wish Hook know what Hook's mother's name is?

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    • In case anyone was wondering, based on this thread (I don't know what happened with the past discussion, as it was on the page, and has been erased), we have 6 people who agree it should be added (Me, UmSushi, Raymond, Emillian, Jenna, and Ruben), 2 that are neutral-ish (Esk and Lady), and 3 that are against it being added (Lola, Dat, and Francis). I know that's not enough people yet, but out of the people in this thread it seems to be skewing toward "be added". It is also important to note that all neutral and against people agree that the names could be (or are likely to be) the same.

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    • DatNuttyKid wrote:

      Furthermore, the statements you're citing are vague in and of themselves, even barring the pre-existing Wish Realm debacle. How would Wish Hook know what Hook's mother's name is?

      Because the mother is literally the same person! Hook and WHook are the same person, just in different timelines! How can Hook have a different mother, and still be Hook? That's my point!

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    • I’m neutral. It could go either way, but since what is said about the Wish Realm is so inconsistent it’s hard to decide.

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      DatNuttyKid wrote:

      Furthermore, the statements you're citing are vague in and of themselves, even barring the pre-existing Wish Realm debacle. How would Wish Hook know what Hook's mother's name is?

      Because the mother is literally the same person! Hook and WHook are the same person, just in different timelines! How can Hook have a different mother, and still be Hook? That's my point!

      How can Robin be 28 years younger, and still be Robin? How can Snow and Charming have their lives be exactly the same but somehow stop Regina? How can everything have happened exactly the same and Stealthy is still alive?

      The Wish Realm proves over and over again that it is not the exact same. Several on-screen facts don't get disproven just because one character had one line claiming otherwise. To use your own slippery slope argument, we should list that Lancelot is dead because Cora said he was, so obviously she must have been telling the truth even though we've seen otherwise.

      At this point, I'm almost entirely convinced that every single word I've said has been outright ignored because I don't understand how this isn't clear. How in the world does it make sense to assume something is true when there's so much evidence proving how dangerous and unprofessional it is to claim that it's true? Quite frankly, this argument is, in my opinion, ridiculous and embarrassing. I'm unfollowing this thread before I get much more honest than that, but I'm going to be heavily disappointed if I see we've ignored encyclopedic standards to add unproven "facts" to an article just because some people are too impatient to accept a vague listing.

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    • I think the discussion might be argued on different fronts. I think some are arguing "Is this speculation true?" and others are discussing "Does this follow prior decisions, policy, and consistency?"

      I don't think this is about "Is my headcanon true?" but:

      - Where's the evidence?

      - Is there counterevidence?

      - Is it enough to make a decision? In-show source? Outside source?

      Evidence for the name being the same is a statement by Wish Hook. Evidence against it is in-show WR inconsistency. There are no overwhelming sources outstanding that which can be used to add it (and we don't add it due to prior discussion/ community decision). In other words....

      Reliable (questionable) statement vs Inconsistencies, and when both sides are pretty much at odds, precedent says we side against unsourced claims. Like Wish Smee.

      You can disagree, but that's the precedent. So, it's "Overturn Precedent" or "Find some sources".

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    • DatNuttyKid wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      DatNuttyKid wrote:

      Furthermore, the statements you're citing are vague in and of themselves, even barring the pre-existing Wish Realm debacle. How would Wish Hook know what Hook's mother's name is?

      Because the mother is literally the same person! Hook and WHook are the same person, just in different timelines! How can Hook have a different mother, and still be Hook? That's my point!
      How can Robin be 28 years younger, and still be Robin? How can Snow and Charming have their lives be exactly the same but somehow stop Regina? How can everything have happened exactly the same and Stealthy is still alive?

      Your talking about entirely different things. Snow would still be the child of Leopold and Eva in the Wish Realm, right? Because if she was the child of let's say Leopold and Cora, then she wouldn't be Snow, or not the Snow played by Ginny. Same thing with Charming. His parents are still Ruth and Robert, right? Because otherwise, how is he still Charming played by Josh. For someone claiming to be so worried about keeping things factual, you certainly don't seem to understand human biology, at least not if you are trying to tell me that WHook can have different parents, and still be WHook played by Colin. I just don't get it.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      I think the discussion might be argued on different fronts. I think some are arguing "Is this speculation true?" and others are discussing "Does this follow prior decisions, policy, and consistency?"

      I don't think this is about "Is my headcanon true?" but:

      - Where's the evidence?

      - Is there counterevidence?

      - Is it enough to make a decision? In-show source? Outside source?

      Evidence for the name being the same is a statement by Wish Hook. Evidence against it is in-show WR inconsistency. There are no overwhelming sources outstanding that which can be used to add it (and we don't add it due to prior discussion/ community decision). In other words....

      Reliable (questionable) statement vs Inconsistencies, and when both sides are pretty much at odds, precedent says we side against unsourced claims. Like Wish Smee.

      You can disagree, but that's the precedent. So, it's "Overturn Precedent" or "Find some sources".

      It isn't speculation. Not only does WHook state as such, he has to have the same set of parents, unless the writers are doing a new take on how humans reproduce, which I don't think is the case.

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:

      It isn't speculation. Not only does WHook state as such, he has to have the same set of parents, unless the writers are doing a new take on how humans reproduce, which I don't think is the case.

      Clarification Take-2: You have WHook's statement, I have evidence of WR inconsistency. We both agree on that. We now go on precedent "Source, or nothing". 

      You can disagree on the precedent from the community discussion before, but I'm not debating biology and logical deduction because the wiki doesn't work that way. (Which doesn't satisfy everyone on everything, but that's how majority rule works)

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:

      It isn't speculation. Not only does WHook state as such, he has to have the same set of parents, unless the writers are doing a new take on how humans reproduce, which I don't think is the case.

      Clarification Take-2: You have WHook's statement, I have evidence of WR inconsistency. We both agree on that. We now go on precedent "Source, or nothing". 

      You can disagree on the precedent from the community discussion before, but I'm not debating biology and logical deduction because the wiki doesn't work that way. (Which doesn't satisfy everyone on everything, but that's how majority rule works)

      And there within lies the problem. We aren't using logic and basic biology. The writers aren't making a show for babies, they expect the audience to not need every little detail spoonfed to them. If they have a character say "our pasts are the same", and then have him say who his mother is, the writers expect us to understand that the other version of that character would also have the same mother. How people can't understand this is beyond me.

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    • Anyways, the key problem/solution is there: we need a clear source from the writers.

      There is not much else to add to this discussion without a source ^^ Except doing a useless game of ping-pong, we're not doing much now.

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      FrancisPaul wrote:

      3) Ages vary. History vary. Why should we pretend that anything remained the same then? Apparently, there are still seven dwarves, but no WHappy. I mean, the whole WR is probably one of the hugest plot holes in history, but the wiki can't use that as an excuse to treat information as it suits better or more "comfortable". The policies and logics state that nothing can be added unless we have a source. That alone should be enough for us to avoid including any information that was not explicitly presented. About names, let's remember that the subjects didn't even know David's name in EF (as proved in 213), because he went by James. Yet, 611 shows that he was already called Prince David in WR. So, anyone could argue that Alice could be an alias because she was wanted for murder or whatever. She could be known as Alice there and actually be named Gertrude in EF. Who knows?

      Forgot to mention earlier, we didn't see WHappy or WDopey, but it doesn't mean they don't exist, just that we didn't see them.

      Sure, that is true. Doesn't invalidate my point, though

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    • Lady Junky wrote:
      Does not change this very basic guideline: from the moment that there is a doubt, we can't add it as a fact. Whatever we choose to believe on this question, it changes nothing. This entire thread and the previous discussion are proof of that. If it was as clear and easy as some pretend it is, these discussions would not happen and would not be so divisive.

      There are enough of uncertainties to challenge the info. Meaning that, at this point, without a clear source from the writers, it just can't be resolved or simply added as a fact.

      This ^^

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    • I just want to add that, even if we eventually get a source saying "Real Hook's mother is named Alice" it won't be enough to add that WHook's dad is Brennan or dad WLiam and WLiam2 exist. That will only happen if we get an explict souce stating "Each and every family tree and name is exactly the same in EF and WR". Then we can add WBrennan, WLeopold, WCora, WJonathan, WZelena, WEveryone

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    • FrancisPaul wrote:
      Lady Junky wrote:
      Does not change this very basic guideline: from the moment that there is a doubt, we can't add it as a fact. Whatever we choose to believe on this question, it changes nothing. This entire thread and the previous discussion are proof of that. If it was as clear and easy as some pretend it is, these discussions would not happen and would not be so divisive.

      There are enough of uncertainties to challenge the info. Meaning that, at this point, without a clear source from the writers, it just can't be resolved or simply added as a fact.

      This ^^

      Same. If we don't follow guidelines and rules, then the wiki as a source of information is inconsistent.

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    • FrancisPaul wrote:
      I just want to add that, even if we eventually get a source saying "Real Hook's mother is named Alice" it won't be enough to add that WHook's dad is Brennan or dad WLiam and WLiam2 exist. That will only happen if we get an explict souce stating "Each and every family tree and name is exactly the same in EF and WR". Then we can add WBrennan, WLeopold, WCora, WJonathan, WZelena, WEveryone

      See this is what confuses me. Can you explain to me how anyone's parents in the Wish Realm can't be the same and still produce the same biological child as the EF version? I just don't get how anyone thinks that makes sense.

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      FrancisPaul wrote:
      I just want to add that, even if we eventually get a source saying "Real Hook's mother is named Alice" it won't be enough to add that WHook's dad is Brennan or dad WLiam and WLiam2 exist. That will only happen if we get an explict souce stating "Each and every family tree and name is exactly the same in EF and WR". Then we can add WBrennan, WLeopold, WCora, WJonathan, WZelena, WEveryone
      See this is what confuses me. Can you explain to me how anyone's parents in the Wish Realm can't be the same and still produce the same biological child as the EF version? I just don't get how anyone thinks that makes sense.

      Who says they are the same biological child? Same actor ==/== same DNA.

      We've had dozens of actors portraying different characters.

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:

      FrancisPaul wrote:
      I just want to add that, even if we eventually get a source saying "Real Hook's mother is named Alice" it won't be enough to add that WHook's dad is Brennan or dad WLiam and WLiam2 exist. That will only happen if we get an explict souce stating "Each and every family tree and name is exactly the same in EF and WR". Then we can add WBrennan, WLeopold, WCora, WJonathan, WZelena, WEveryone

      See this is what confuses me. Can you explain to me how anyone's parents in the Wish Realm can't be the same and still produce the same biological child as the EF version? I just don't get how anyone thinks that makes sense.

      Well there is always the (small) possibility that his parents did not have the same names in the Wish Realm. Again, the writers should be asked of to explain this.

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    • FrancisPaul wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      FrancisPaul wrote:
      I just want to add that, even if we eventually get a source saying "Real Hook's mother is named Alice" it won't be enough to add that WHook's dad is Brennan or dad WLiam and WLiam2 exist. That will only happen if we get an explict souce stating "Each and every family tree and name is exactly the same in EF and WR". Then we can add WBrennan, WLeopold, WCora, WJonathan, WZelena, WEveryone
      See this is what confuses me. Can you explain to me how anyone's parents in the Wish Realm can't be the same and still produce the same biological child as the EF version? I just don't get how anyone thinks that makes sense.
      Who says they are the same biological child? Same actor ==/== same DNA.

      We've had dozens of actors portraying different characters.

      Are you talking about the same character being played by different actors because of age realted things? Otherwise, which actor on Once (not counting bit part actors) have played multiple parts on Once? I mean do you really think Hook and WHook have different biological parents and would be played by Colin? No, that makes no sense.

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    • okay, here is a more in-depth explanation as my attempt to put you all out of your misery.

      1) the out-of-place things in the wr:

      baelfire still being there: as someone said earlier, the wish realm was created by the evil queen's wish that emma had never been the savior. this might not be just because regina failed to cast the curse. it could be for multiple reasons, one being that bae never actually went through the portal and therefore rumple would have never needed to have a curse cast to get back to him. it's possible that bae ran away instead, and rumple killed milah because of that, because she abandoned bae and he blamed her for him running away. in this case, cora could have asked rumple to teach regina magic and she could have found the dark curse herself. also, as for the fact he would have been hundreds of years old by then, obviously rumple would have kept him young using his magic, as we all know how desperate he was not to lose him.

      marian being dead: this would have made sense if the above was true, because robin may not have been able to steal the wand from rumple, therefore marian would have died pregnant with roland and robin may have been grieving so much that he changed his name back to robin of locksley and started stealing for himself again in order to help him to forget her.

      robin still being young: as was said before, robin was a theif, he could easily have stolen an aging potion or magical object to keep him young.

      other various people seemingly not aging: everyone knows magic can keep someone young, it's not unlikely that multiple people did this.

      2) biology:

      even if hook's grandparents had had two daughters instead of one, brennan and said other daughter may not have had the same child as brennan and alice would have, because even identical twins are not exactly the same. this means that hook's parents must have been the same. hook's parents do not have anything to do with why emma became the savior, except the fact that they had a child who stole rumple's wife. it makes no sense at all why hook's parents would have been different in the wish realm - it's completely irrelevant to the point of the wish realm. hook's parents had to have been the same. and even if alice was wanted or something and went by a different name (which would make no sense at all, where the hell did you get that idea from) it doesn't matter, it's still the same person.

      3) hook's life:

      whook confirmed that his and original hook's lives had been the same up until the dark curse failed, which makes complete sense. rumple still would have killed milah if my theory was true, hook still would have gone to neverland, it's possible that baelfire went to neverland too when he run away, he could have been taken by the shadow, as it's been proven the shadow visits the enchanted forest, not only our world. if he was taken by the shadow, he still would have met hook on the ship and hook still would have gone back to the enchanted forest to kill rumple.

      there's plenty of evidence suggesting that hook and whook's parents would have been the same, and literally none proving that they wouldn't have. i don't understand why this is even a discussion. they're obviously the same.

      for those of you who still want proof, i'm gonna try and reach out to the writers on twitter and ask. if they reply i'll be back.

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    • UmSushi wrote:
      okay, here is a more in-depth explanation as my attempt to put you all out of your misery.

      1) the out-of-place things in the wr:

      baelfire still being there: as someone said earlier, the wish realm was created by the evil queen's wish that emma had never been the savior. this might not be just because regina failed to cast the curse. it could be for multiple reasons, one being that bae never actually went through the portal and therefore rumple would have never needed to have a curse cast to get back to him. it's possible that bae ran away instead, and rumple killed milah because of that, because she abandoned bae and he blamed her for him running away. in this case, cora could have asked rumple to teach regina magic and she could have found the dark curse herself. also, as for the fact he would have been hundreds of years old by then, obviously rumple would have kept him young using his magic, as we all know how desperate he was not to lose him.

      marian being dead: this would have made sense if the above was true, because robin may not have been able to steal the wand from rumple, therefore marian would have died pregnant with roland and robin may have been grieving so much that he changed his name back to robin of locksley and started stealing for himself again in order to help him to forget her.

      robin still being young: as was said before, robin was a theif, he could easily have stolen an aging potion or magical object to keep him young.

      other various people seemingly not aging: everyone knows magic can keep someone young, it's not unlikely that multiple people did this.

      2) biology:

      even if hook's grandparents had had two daughters instead of one, brennan and said other daughter may not have had the same child as brennan and alice would have, because even identical twins are not exactly the same. this means that hook's parents must have been the same. hook's parents do not have anything to do with why emma became the savior, except the fact that they had a child who stole rumple's wife. it makes no sense at all why hook's parents would have been different in the wish realm - it's completely irrelevant to the point of the wish realm. hook's parents had to have been the same. and even if alice was wanted or something and went by a different name (which would make no sense at all, where the hell did you get that idea from) it doesn't matter, it's still the same person.

      3) hook's life:

      whook confirmed that his and original hook's lives had been the same up until the dark curse failed, which makes complete sense. rumple still would have killed milah if my theory was true, hook still would have gone to neverland, it's possible that baelfire went to neverland too when he run away, he could have been taken by the shadow, as it's been proven the shadow visits the enchanted forest, not only our world. if he was taken by the shadow, he still would have met hook on the ship and hook still would have gone back to the enchanted forest to kill rumple.

      there's plenty of evidence suggesting that hook and whook's parents would have been the same, and literally none proving that they wouldn't have. i don't understand why this is even a discussion. they're obviously the same.

      for those of you who still want proof, i'm gonna try and reach out to the writers on twitter and ask. if they reply i'll be back.

      Good wrap up of why they would be the same.

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    • UmSushi wrote:

      3) hook's life:

      whook confirmed that his and original hook's lives had been the same up until the dark curse failed

      And who is Whook to confirm anything? And what does "confirm" mean? Wasn't Lancelot confirmed to be dead or Eloise confirmed to be Roger's daughter? Point being WHook knows nothing about EF, Hook, WR, NEF or whatever. What he says cannot be taken as solid truth

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    • FrancisPaul wrote:

      And who is Whook to confirm anything? 


      The writers put that line in WHook's mouth for a reason. They were trying to explain how the Wish Realm works. We can't just assume the guy is lying/mistaken. WHook's statement will be wrong until the show itself proves him wrong

      Canon vs speculation

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    • 8Rob wrote:
      FrancisPaul wrote:

      And who is Whook to confirm anything? 


      The writers put that line in WHook's mouth for a reason. They were trying to explain how the Wish Realm works. We can't just assume the guy is lying/mistaken. WHook's statement will be wrong until the show itself proves him wrong

      Canon vs speculation

      That's one of my points as well. The writer's wouldn't have had WHook say that, if they didn't want to establish that Hook and WHook share a past.

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:

      That's one of my points as well. The writer's wouldn't have had WHook say that, if they didn't want to establish that Hook and WHook share a past.

      I get you CDA. It's like adding 2 and 2 together, but as the wiki, it doesn't really work like that. 

      I mean a couple of us tried changing the magic types and such (because I can say the categories we use really aren't obviously what the show say) and some tried to merge pages a while ago, but the wiki works differently (for reasons).

      So, is WHook's mom the same as Hook's? I'd say, duh. But the wiki goes the extra step in certainty.

      I think it's somewhat due to the common rule of :what's stated on the show is true, unless said otherwise", but Once breaks all sorts of rules and conventions that the wiki doesn't take such bold moves (as it's a source of solid-as-can-be knowledge).

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    • I mean considering they are both identical, it'd be shocking if they don't have the same parents

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    • UmSushi
      UmSushi removed this reply because:
      bc
      11:29, February 11, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • 8Rob wrote:
      FrancisPaul wrote:

      And who is Whook to confirm anything? 


      The writers put that line in WHook's mouth for a reason. They were trying to explain how the Wish Realm works. We can't just assume the guy is lying/mistaken.


      ​​​​​​^that's true. why would the writers make whook say that if it wasn't true? i doubt they were just trying to torture us. it makes no sense why that wouldn't be true.

      as for lancelot's death, that was not confirmed. cora only claimed she killed him, and guess what cora also said? she told snow white she would let regina marry daniel and then she went to the stables to rip out his heart. you can't trust her.

      eloise was also never confirmed to be whook's daughter. he only said that she "felt like family" to him. this makes sense - she's the mother of his child.

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    • Hook's Parents and Nook's Parenst are the same. I mean Both had Alise as mother, Brennan as father and Liams as two brothers.

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    • A Spy in the Mirror
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