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  • Hiatus time, guys! How did you like the midseason finale? Which Witch did the best Witchery?

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    • Laughed out loud at Regina saying she wasn't there to discuss timeline issues.  Think we all saw Gothel betraying Drizella.  How did Zelena get her magic back?  At one point she tells Regina she needs to grab her wand which would explain it if she was using a fairy wand but then later in the episode we see her use magic with no wand in sight.  Either way I'm glad she's got magic but as of now we've seen no magic from Robin so the question, does she have magic like her mother? 

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    • I get why they did the 8 years timejump. 7B flashbacks will be during these 8 years, and so explained how all characters ended up like they are.

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    • Which Witch did the best Witchery?

      The fourth manikin, without a doubt.

      (I really can't stop laughing after... this).

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    • I'm glad they threw in that explanation of why Rumple looked like his old Dark One self because when they first showed him I was confused as hell.   And did I miss something or have we not been shown how Hook got Alice out of the tower yet?  

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    • Agh! A lot of stuff!

      • I like the introduction of the Eighth Covent (or whatever it's called). It's new, fresh, dark, and mysterious, and I have no idea where they are going with it. It kinda confused me though (were they always empty hoods or did they hold something).
      • The timeline has completely confused me, so I give up.
      • I found kind of funny (for lack of a better word) that the two products of the controversial rape-by-deception arcs are now in a relationship.
      • How did Gold convert back to Rumple? Did he allow the darkness to take over again?
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    • I called the Alice-Robin thing

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    • JanzPotter wrote:
      I called the Alice-Robin thing

      Honestly, I think we all did.

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    • I found the pacing of the flashbacks to be a bit of a mess. I get that it's the midseason finale, so they wanted to show the curse and some other flashforwards since we last saw everyone, but I was mostly just confused. It really felt like they aired this one out of order or something.

      I liked the "Henry or Lucy" twist. But the fact that the writers really don't care about timelines/aging annoys me to no end. So the mains who are still in Storybrooke are literally the only ones living out normal years? Lucky them!

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    • JennaMae wrote:
      I found the pacing of the flashbacks to be a bit of a mess. I get that it's the midseason finale, so they wanted to show the curse and some other flashforwards since we last saw everyone, but I was mostly just confused. It really felt like they aired this one out of order or something.

      I think that was the point. I think they decided to do this to build suspense and questions for 7B, such as:

      • How did Tremaine end up on their side?
      • What is going on with Rumple?
      • What is going on with Alice and Rumple?

      And so on and so forth...

      I think we'll appreciate this episode a lot more, when they fill in most of these blanks.

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    • Someone remind me how Zelena & Robin ended up in the same realm as Henry, Jacinda, Jack, Tiana, etc. 

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    • I think the writers wrote themselves into a bind with what they showed us in last seasons finale.  They showed us Henry and Lucy running from something (which we know now to be the witches) but then they realized well crap, what happened between Henry leaving storybrooke and the witches chasing Henry.  Showing us that in least seasons finale left roughly 18 years worth of history out and now they had to try to piece it all together and that's why we have a horrible mess in terms of the timeline.  

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    • Alice and Robin had surprise me. When I heard that Alice told her father to deliver a message to her, I was wondering who the "her" was. 

      Also can't believe that Regina was the one that cast the curse. It was either casting the curse or Henry.

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    • OnceUponATimeFan3 wrote:
      Alice and Robin had surprise me. When I heard that Alice told her father to deliver a message to her, I was wondering who the "her" was. 

      Also can't believe that Regina was the one that cast the curse. It was either casting the curse or Henry.

      I immediately knew it was Robin lol. 

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    • Very dense episode, plot wise. Although I'm glad they answered several things (confirming the Alice/Robin pairing, connected back the 6B flashbacks, showing who cast the curse, showing why Regina can't break the curse, etc.), I'm still worried if they will have time to answer everything in the remaining 12 episodes. I hope they can.

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    • JanzPotter wrote:
      Someone remind me how Zelena & Robin ended up in the same realm as Henry, Jacinda, Jack, Tiana, etc. 

      Honestly, your guess is as good as mine. I assume they'll explain that briefly in one episode. However, the writers are less concered on making the timeline work, rather than writing a good story. 

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    • OUAT: The Darkness wrote:

      I think that was the point. I think they decided to do this to build suspense and questions for 7B, such as:

      • How did Tremaine end up on their side?
      • What is going on with Rumple?
      • What is going on with Alice and Rumple?

      And so on and so forth...

      I think we'll appreciate this episode a lot more, when they fill in most of these blanks.

      I understand this is a storytelling method (that's not even new for OUAT), but counting on the audience accepting confusion now and hoping they hang on long enough to find stuff out is risky. Especially when little was answered. It works for a groundwork-laying premiere of sorts, but for a finale that's supposed to be climactic....? 

      So when the NEF flashbacks pick up again, should we be expecting flashbacks for flashbacks? Or will they just continue on from the 7x08 point where they met Jack, and 7x10 was the one fluke in the sequence because they needed to show the curse now? 

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    • I'm so mad I didn't get to see it yet! But tell me one thing: is the curse broke?

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    • Nope. 

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    • 123Raura wrote:
      I'm so mad I didn't get to see it yet! But tell me one thing: is the curse broke?

      Nope, not even close.

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      123Raura wrote:
      I'm so mad I didn't get to see it yet! But tell me one thing: is the curse broke?
      Nope, not even close.

      Dang it 

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    • No more questions. I'll be patient.

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    • Good ep, but questions need answering. Also, is this coven older than Merlin, the Apprentice, and the DO?

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    • Great episode, but there is still a lot of confusion. We now know that Regina cast the curse and why and it seems like the rest of the season will be about figuring out a way to break the curse without killing Henry. There is still no explanation as to why Henry lived outside of Hiperion Heights in the premere and when did the fight between Regina and Zelena take place? Is there a big time gap between the casting of the curse and Lucy finding Henry? It has been revealed that Lucy was 8 when the curse was cast. In 7X08, Jacinda says that she hasn't seen Nick in 10 years, implying that Lucy is at least 9 years and 3 months old. I guess that means there was a time gap of over a year. If Regina had extra memmory potion, why did she only use it on Zelena? I wander if Zelena's fiance will be someone important. This episode did very little to explain the timeline. Drizella didn't age for 8 years, but everyone else should have. Robin is 25, meaning she definitely experienced time at a faster rate than Henry. Does this mean time moves much slower in this new Enchanted Forrest? Drizella knew Zelena, implying they met some time prior to Lucy's birth. Regina was able to cast the curse without killing anyone, because she cast it before. Why has this never been brought up before? Did Regina just not know? Clearly this would have changed hlw the curse was cast in Season 3. Why won't Alice talk to Hook?


      What to expect for 7B:

      How Henry and Lucy are saved.

      How Rumpel frees himself of the dagger.

      Gothel's whole plan.

      Some explanation for the timeline.

      How and when Zelena and Robin arrive in NEF.

      Alice's story: how she escaped the tower, her many adventures in WL, how she knows Cecelia, how she meets Robin, what happened between her and Hook

      Henry and Ella actually falling in love.

      Rapunzel killing her husband.

      Tiana joining the resistance.

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    • I Think I uncovered the meaning of That symbol that keeps popping up. It's called, The Helm of Awe, The Symbol that keeps coming up, it's Norse Mythology. The Symbol, was originally an orb of magic to strike fear into the enemy. In Once Upon a Time I think Adam and Eddy mean Anastasia or Gothel is the Helm, and the eight witches are to protect and harness that power... Like Rapunzel said to Drisella, Magic isn't power, Fear lasts forever. I think something much worse is coming when the curse is broken.

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    • Utter solitude
      Utter solitude removed this reply because:
      Pointless comment is pointless
      03:50, December 16, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • JanzPotter wrote:
      OnceUponATimeFan3 wrote:
      Alice and Robin had surprise me. When I heard that Alice told her father to deliver a message to her, I was wondering who the "her" was. 

      Also can't believe that Regina was the one that cast the curse. It was either casting the curse or Henry.

      I immediately knew it was Robin lol. 

      I think a lot of people did.

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    • So, Drizella was a statue for 8 years. And they kept her in the castle as an ornament??? And then they just waited for the curse to be cast? Why didn't they just drestroy the statue? 

      Why didn't they age in 8 years? (I mean, Tiana, Cinderella, Alice, Regina, Tremaine, Hook). Cinderella and Hook were even wearing the same clothes.

      So, Regina can just recast the Dark Curse without a heart? Then why she didn't do it in 3B?

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    • Avatar Beta wrote:
      Good ep, but questions need answering. Also, is this coven older than Merlin, the Apprentice, and the DO?

      It doesn't matter, because this is a different world, so it has different mythology.

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    • I'm not here to discuss timelines was the best part of the entire episode. 

      They had way to much going on this episode and too much of a time jump. The Overall Idea that they plan on using is actually pretty interesting but this is clearly something that is atleast Multi Season and they only got half a Season to do it. 

      The Questions I currently have are:

      1. How did Zelena recover her magic? Not impossible but wished it was explained.

      2. Why doesn't Robin practice magic? We know Magic runs through thier bloodline. Given how Zelena is you would think Robin would be a powerful sorcereress instead of a female Robin Hood. It just goes against Zelena's character.

      3. If Regina needed help why didn't she go get Serum Queen, Gideon, WishRumple, and Our Rumple. Hell they could have even went to go get Maleficent and Lily. 

      I know I had some more Questions but I just don't remember them. Oh Yea.

      4. What happened to Henry Author powers? With the Heart of the Truest believer he should be able to practice Magic. 

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    • 8Rob wrote:
      So, Drizella was a statue for 8 years. And they kept her in the castle as an ornament??? And then they just waited for the curse to be cast? Why didn't they just drestroy the statue? 

      Why didn't they age in 8 years? (I mean, Tiana, Cinderella, Alice, Regina, Tremaine, Hook). Cinderella and Hook were even wearing the same clothes.

      So, Regina can just recast the Dark Curse without a heart? Then why she didn't do it in 3B?

      Forget it. Trying to make sense of this season is a lost cause at this point. Season 7 is basically the "Twilight Zone" version of Once Upon A Time. It's best to cut your losses now and just watch something that is much less confusing instead. That's what I'm doing. F*** season 7 of Once Upon A Time. It's too confusing to make the viewer feel like they want to get invested in it.

      1. F***Season7OfOUAT
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    • ArcaneDust17 wrote: Forget it. Trying to make sense of this season is a lost cause at this point. Season 7 is basically the "Twilight Zone" version of Once Upon A Time. It's best to cut your losses now and just watch something that is much less confusing instead. That's what I'm doing. F*** season 7 of Once Upon A Time. It's too confusing to make the viewer feel like they want to get invested in it.

      1. F***Season7OfOUAT

      Hello! Please check out our Rand and Rave Board! This kind of opinion belongs there, not in the general discussions.

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    • As much as I love Once, this episode was just disappointing to me. I understand having cliffhangers but it just seemed like they made no progress in this episode. They tried to answer too many questions too fast and ultimately ended up answering none at all. I have many problems with this episode:

      1-Why does Zelena have magic? Didn't she give it up in Season 5 or 6?

      2-They could've explained why Rumple had gross skin again.

      3- The timeline with Zelena and Robin.....enough said.

      4-How did Henry stop aging when he came to NEF? We know time doesn't move slower there since Lucy grew at a normal rate.

      5-Didn't everyone know that Drizella would unfreeze when Lucy turned 8? I'm pretty they would spend those 8 years trying to stop the curse or just break the statue of Drizella. Why did they act so surprised when she awoke? Why did they think she was defeated even though she said that she would unfreeze?

      6-Why didn't they try to break the Alice/Hook poison thing? Seems like they just took a long 8 year vacation and didn't do anything whatsoever

      7-Ultimately, I just hated the acting. The actors looked so tired and non chalant about everything. When Henry got captured and Lucy told them about it, everyone just boredly said that they would go get him like it was a daily occurence and Henry's life wasn't on the stake. Overall, the actors just sounded bored about everything, which made me bored. I mean, shouldn't you be dramatic in a DRAMA series?

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    • Amazing episode, and possibly their best mid-season finale!

      I just finished re-watching the episode because my TV messed up like half way through, so I ended up seeing the episode for the first time with an hour break in the middle of it. Anyways, at first I thought the flashbacks were... weird. Everything was happening so fast with Lucy being born, Drizella being frozen and then eight years later, but the second time I around I quite liked all of it. I trust they'll hopefully fill in a good amount of the gaps like Henry and Cinderella (both post-7x08 and pre-7x01), why Rapunzel aligned herself with the heroes against Drizella, and then everything in the missing eight years of course. As for what we did see, I quite liked all of it. I liked Regina going to see Zelena and Robin, Hook getting help from imp!Rumple, Queen Tiana, the stuff with Alice and Robin (who I totally ship, by the way!) There was a good amount of diversity showing where everyone was at the time of the casting, and I LOVE the twist that Regina is the one to cast. I'd previously considered it, but it wasn't something I thought that much about. I love the whole situation though, having to save Henry, and it's really complicating everything. It makes for some pretty great drama, and I'm here for it.

      As for the present day stuff, let's talk about Kelly. I'm glad she's over and done with. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the spin class scene, but when I heard we were getting Zelena's cursed persona I figured it would be while Regina was cursed as well. Seeing one cursed and not the other would've been frustrating, so I'm glad we cut to Zelena regaining her memories, and I liked the montage of her history in the show. I really love the dynamic between Regina and Zelena, and I'm very excited to see more of them working together as sisters in the back half of the season, especially after being cheated out of that the majority of Season 6. I'm also very interested in the fact that Zelena's engaged. This could actually be a really cool storyline because we've never had this situation before, a cursed persona being with someone actually from this world. The closest we had I guess was Emma and Walsh, which of course was a total cop-out. I hope it's not the same for Zelena and that this really is a good guy for her.

      I'm also liking the stuff with Rumple's storyline and how the weird symbols from earlier in the season are actually beginning to make sense. Not gonna lie, I hardly retained any of the "missing Eloise Gardener" storyline and really thought it'd mostly amount to a bunch of nothing. I guess I'm glad to be proven wrong? Lol. I'm sure Ana isn't the Guardian simply because we're only half way through the season, but I liked the scenes with her, Rumple, and Victoria. I also think the actress playing her is doing a really good job, so shout-out for that. Tilly continues to be absolutely adorable, and Ivy continues to be a fantastic villain. Gothel betraying her wasn't much of a surprise, but I must admit I laughed when Victoria said "Don't even look at me" when she got thrown into the pit. I really do hope Ivy gets a happy ending (still unsure about Victoria, but definitely not Gothel).

      Anyways, this and the previous were both fantastic episodes, and this season is really starting to turn itself around. If it keeps going at this rate then perhaps it'll be a good season after all. I'm definitely looking forward to the back half right now, at least.

      EDIT: "I'm not here to discuss timelines." I don't know whether to laugh or be offended.

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    • DeviousPeep wrote:

      EDIT: "I'm not here to discuss timelines." I don't know whether to laugh or be offended.

       

      "I'm not here to discuss timelines" is the new "your questions are pointless"

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    • 8Rob wrote: "I'm not here to discuss timelines" is the new "your questions are pointless"

      It is rude either way, find a polite way to express yourself.

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    • I MANAGED TO CALL TWO PLOT POINTS AND I'M SO HAPPY

      A) Henry was poisoned and the Land Without Magic keeps the poison from working, but once the curse breaks, he'll die

      B) Regina was forced to cast the curse as "The Eighth Witch" to save Henry's life

      I'd put a sunglasses emoticon here, but I already used B) in my list style, so it would look weird. Just uh, pretend I'm wearing sunglasses.


      That said... I actually didn't like this episode very much. And I feel terrible! Because I'm such a huge supporter of this season! But... I'm not liking the idea of this weird cult arc. And Robin/Alice feels just as forced for "diversity" as Ruby/Dorothy did. Since they're getting more episodes of focus, I'm hoping they'll fix that, but I'm pretty disappointed with it right now. That said, I'm not losing hope -- stop looking at me like that, Snow -- and I look forward to seeing it being better than I expect.

      Now that that is said, there were some things I did like. Kelly was cool, though I wish we saw more of her. Zelena's reaction to Kelly was hilarious. Anastasia is sweet and pure and innocent and must be protected. Gothel is terrifying and villainous and cruel and must be defeated. Drizella is moving towards a redemption arc. Despite my doubts about the Coven itself, I'm excited to meet its members. And despite my doubts about her romance, I like Robin so far. I just hope she doesn't lose all characterization just to be Alice's girlfriend (same goes for Alice, though I have higher hopes for her since she's the only thing making Hook relevant). It was sweet, if a bit morally questionable (considering he didn't tell Alice about it first, although I do see why an 8-year-old girl is a priority), how Hook sacrificed himself and Alice for Cindy and Lucy. And I liked seeing Tiger Lily again -- although she did basically nothing, hopefully this is set-up for her to be more involved in 7B since we saw her get taken by the curse (I think? I definitely saw a reddish-orange garment standing nearby Tiana and Lucy but it didn't quite register until she was off screen and I didn't feel like rewinding to confirm.)

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    • I just want to know why Zelena and Robin left Storybrroke for the New Enchanted Forest. I also want to know how she got her magic back.

      Why was she in San Francisco instead of Hyperion Heights if she came over with the curse?

      Also, do you think it's possible that Dr. Facilier came over with the curse, and that's who she was getting married to in San Francisco?

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    • MickeysPal wrote:
      I just want to know why Zelena and Robin left Storybrroke for the New Enchanted Forest. I also want to know how she got her magic back.

      Why was she in San Francisco instead of Hyperion Heights if she came over with the curse?

      Also, do you think it's possible that Dr. Facilier came over with the curse, and that's who she was getting married to in San Francisco?

      I don't think Zelena and Robin were in the NEF? Zelena commented that Robin was aging normally for "their realm" which seemed to differentiate from the NEF, where Regina has been.

      Presumably, she was one of the people Victoria chased away. Or it's like Henry, who was in a different home in Seattle. This curse doesn't seem to have kept everyone local.

      I don't think so. I think it's a normal guy.

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    • It was me, clearly.

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    • A lot happened in this episode. It was mostly enjoyable, but suffered a lot with the pacing. I was surprised that the show jumped over Henriella’s relationship, but hopefully they’ll go back and revisit the time before Lucy was born. I wasn’t surprised at the 8 year time jump, it was the easiest explanation for things. The characters on this show apparently don’t age. Gothel and her Coven of 8 is the creepiest thing this show has done. I really liked that the episode had Henriella being parents to Lucy and that Lucy wanted a sword. Regina was the one who cast the curse and she did it because Gothel and Drizella poisoned Henry and he would have died. But apparently you only need the blood of a witch who cast a dark curse to enact another which took care of the heart of the thing you love most problem. That was kind of a weak explanation in my opinion. 

      I am fairly certain that the curse had a time travel element to it since the set-up looked like a time travel spell and because Hyperion Heights is in 2017 and according to Robin’s age it’s been 25 years since she was born. But Robin grew up in what I think is the New Enchanted Forest, so maybe it hasn’t been 25 years? Idk, the timeline’s always going to be confusing. Speaking of Robin, I loved her introduction. I also loved that Zelena’s farm is called Emerald Acres Farm. Regina’s line about not being there to discuss timelines was very meta. I really want to know how Zelena got her magic back since her loosing it was a pretty big deal in Season 6. 

      Killian went to Rumple, who turned himself into Imp Rumple (I think) for help with the curse and he gave him a white elephant figurine that would allow him to be with Alice under the curse and then Alice was there and they couldn’t be near each other because of the curse and it was so sad. But Alice had a letter to Robin addressed to “my love” and Killian believes that his daughter and her loves’s True Love will prevail, which gave me all sorts of feelings and Alice and Robin hadn’t had a scene yet. But then they did. And it was so cute and heartbreaking and they paralleled Captain Swan and clung to each other and I probably love them. Scratch that. I do love them.

      The episode showed when the Season 6 finale flash forwards took place when Henry took Lucy to what he said was the oldest part of this realm and called it the Original Enchanted Forest. So it seems that the curse affected both the new Enchanted Forest and the Original Enchanted Forest or was that just the oldest part of the New Enchanted Forest? What blasted through the doors in the Season 6 finale was Gothel and her Coven of 8 Witches. Wish Killian giving Ella the white elephant so that she could be with Lucy was so heroic and so Killian-like and I loved it. 

      Kelly’s introduction was pretty awesome. I loved that she was a spin instructor and that she called her pupils monkeys. Also she’s engaged. The glimpse shown of her wedding dress was pretty, but it wasn’t to my liking. Regina trying to wake Zelena up by telling her about the curse when she thought her memory potion didn’t work was absolutely hilarious. I really enjoyed Regina and Zelena’s interactions in this episode. I really loved the fact that as soon as he heard what happened to Lucy, Henry rushed back to her. I also loved that Jacinda took comfort in him when he arrived. She must have been waiting hours to cry. I really wish the TLK Henry gave Lucy would have worked, but both parties in a TLK have to believe in True Love and Lucy doesn’t believe anymore. But Henry does, the Heart of the Truest Believer is back. This was the first time that both parties having to believe in True Love was brought up, but I’m certain this has always been the case for TLK’s (that and you have to remember the other person). Also, Emma Swan reference! The heroes are stuck in a vey bad place with the curse. If they break it, Henry dies, but if they don’t Lucy does. Rumple seems to think that Anastasia’s the Guardian and she could be, but I don’t think she is. I think that Alice is, or maybe Wish Killian. Whoever the Guardian is, he/she is apparently able to wake Lucy without breaking the curse or something like that.  

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    • I don't really get why they can't break the curse

      As we saw in 1x22, breaking the curse doesn't mean magic spontaneously appears

      Emma/Henry's TLK broke the curse, and then Rumple brought magic to SB

      So, breaking the curse shouldn't kill Henry, as there wouldn't be magic anyway

      They are conflating 2 different situations

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    • 8Rob wrote: As we saw in 1x22, breaking the curse doesn't mean magic spontaneously appears

      You assume every Curse is the same. We have already seen that that isn't the case, and even saw Regina assembling ingredients back in season 1.

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    • I did not like this episode (even if it had a few good things) for the following reasons:

      Did it really take them over 9 months to still be at war with tremaine? maybe? king? maybe? sorta? I mean I get why they allied with Tremaine against drizilla, but what about after?  what happened with tremaine and the king so they were suddenly at peace?

      Did Heny really never take his family back to SB all this time.  Never visited once?

      Hey, remember when the curse was this very costly thing?  You know, it needs the heart of the person you love most?  all magic comes with a price and all that?  Turns out you just need eight witches one of whom had already cast the curse to cast it now.  And yes I know the black fairy didn't need a heart, but you know, from the amount of time she needed to cast it it seemed like a sutiable alternative.

      And since when does breaking the curse bring magic back?

      You know, I could have forgiven Henry breaking the curse by kissing Lucy if it meant we no longer had to deal with everyone cursed, but since it didn't, I have to say Lucy wasn't even cursed so why would that have worked?

      Also it bugs me that they've changed how breaking a curse works, from believing in magic to just believing in true love.  Would Henry and Jacinda then believed in true love by the time they kissed?

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    • Oh and I forgot to ask if Henry was cursed with everyone else then why wasn't he in hyperion heights?

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    • So back in the episode Hyperion Heights, Rapunzel Tremaine warned Drizella not to rely on magic because it could be taken from her. That warning came to pass in this episode. I wonder though, when Rapunzel said that, did the writers intend that to be foreshadowing?

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    • Theory (If there's a Season 8): Rumple casts the Dark Curse and joins the coven.

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    • How Gold got herself a shiny crocodile skin, again? I had to check if this is a Rumplestiltskin from Wish Realm, the one from s06e10.

      How Zelena got her magic back?

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    • Utter solitude wrote:

      8Rob wrote: "I'm not here to discuss timelines" is the new "your questions are pointless"

      It is rude either way, find a polite way to express yourself.

      He actually wasn't being rude, those are both exact quotes from the show. Regina said the first one in this episode, and Rumple said the second one in 511.

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    • Michu1945 wrote:
      How Gold got herself a shiny crocodile skin, again? I had to check if this is a Rumplestiltskin from Wish Realm, the one from s06e10.

      How Zelena got her magic back?

      Rumple divided his real self and "Mr. Gold" persona, so that while Rumple might be cursed into Weaver, Mr. Gold could be set free.

      Zelena had a wand.

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    • 8Rob wrote:
      I don't really get why they can't break the curse

      As we saw in 1x22, breaking the curse doesn't mean magic spontaneously appears

      Emma/Henry's TLK broke the curse, and then Rumple brought magic to SB

      So, breaking the curse shouldn't kill Henry, as there wouldn't be magic anyway

      They are conflating 2 different situations

      Breaking the curse might bring magic to Hyperion Heights. Depends on how Gothel added to the curse. I'm certain that she might want her magic to return in full.

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    • Eskaver
      Eskaver removed this reply because:
      want to
      12:15, December 16, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • Bazillovesouat wrote:

      How did Henry stop aging when he came to NEF? We know time doesn't move slower there since Lucy grew at a normal rate.

      He didn't stop aging. Adults don't physically age the same way children do. And time in each realm moves normal for that realm. Rate only exists when you compare two realm's time.

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    • Did everyone catch Nick in the background of the one scene, talking to Sabine? I'm guessing that was an actual scene that was cut for time.

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    • <divclass="quote">CoolDudeAl wrote:
      <divclass="quote">Bazillovesouat wrote:
      How did Henry stop aging when he came to NEF? We know time doesn't move slower there since Lucy grew at a normal rate. </div>He didn't stop aging. Adults don't physically age the same way children do. And time in each realm moves normal for that realm. Rate only exists when you compare two realm's time. </div> Yes, but does age a teensy bit faster, because he's physically in his 30s (I'm guessing) but is supposed to be 16 in reality. Though, since Henry grew up in a matter of days, it makes no sense that Regina and Zelena haven't aged a day, because, at this rate, they should have gray hair and be one foot in the grave, like Belle was before dying. And it seems normal in NEF, but technically, 8 years, confirmed, happened in a matter of months. And now, I'm even more confused because Lucy is now 10/9, which means Henry left when he was 15, grew up, had a child, almost died, was cursed to an apartment as a failed author and Swyft driver for a year, and yet the news never reached Storybrooke so Emma and the real Killian, along with Snow and David, and other residents can knock sense into him? 

      What else confuses me is that Regina gave Zelena the memory potion instead of giving it to Henry. Does remembering automatically break the curse and he dies?

      But I called it - Gold is using Ana to save Lucy ... Though, what confuses me in that sense is, why. Doesn't he know waking up Lucy requires the curse to break, which in the end, kills Henry? 

      I'm hoping 7B will result with Driz turning the tables and actually help the heroes break the curse. 

      Also, as we know, TLK can break the curse, but through various seasons, especially Season 6 with Fiona, the curse can be broken with the death of the caster. Thus, not only is it a "Henry or Lucy" situation, it's a "Regina, Henry, or Lucy" situation, because even though Drizella had the idea for using the curse, Regina was the one who casted the curse, which means even if Drizella, Gothel, and the Coven is killed, the curse will still be active.

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    • Why was my reply from earlier removed with no explanation or message from an admin?  Was this because I went a little overboard?  If I edit my reply and tone down the hate may I reposted it with no fear of removal?

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    • How can we question whether or not Henry would die if the curse is broken? 

      The curse was created like that, since they're cursed in a land without magic, all of its rules apply. 

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    • Oh and why wasn't Regina afraid that if he woke up Lucy then the curse would have been broken?  I'm sorry, I just keep finding things wrong with this episode!

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    • Nakis91 wrote:
      How can we question whether or not Henry would die if the curse is broken? 

      The curse was created like that, since they're cursed in a land without magic, all of its rules apply. 

      Wait ... this is just like Season 6 now. For the entire season, we're led on believing that it was the final season and that Emma would die. But this was renewed for a seventh season, and Emma lives and is having a child with Killian. Spontaneously, deep down, we all know the producers aren't gonna kill off Henry ... they would do it if they believed/knew that it would satisfy fans. If Henry is killed off, it could and would (probably) result in a major decrease in viewership. 

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    • Anonymius wrote:
      Oh and why wasn't Regina afraid that if he woke up Lucy then the curse would have been broken?  I'm sorry, I just keep finding things wrong with this episode!

      Because when Emma woke Henry up, the curse broke because of true love. Only true love can save Lucy.

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    • 123Raura wrote:
      Anonymius wrote:
      Oh and why wasn't Regina afraid that if he woke up Lucy then the curse would have been broken?  I'm sorry, I just keep finding things wrong with this episode!
      Because when Emma woke Henry up, the curse broke because of true love. Only true love can save Lucy.

      I was asking why Regina wasn't worried that if Henry woke up Lucy with True love's kiss that would cause the curse holding everyone to be broken as well.

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    • Anonymius wrote:
      123Raura wrote:
      Anonymius wrote:
      Oh and why wasn't Regina afraid that if he woke up Lucy then the curse would have been broken?  I'm sorry, I just keep finding things wrong with this episode!
      Because when Emma woke Henry up, the curse broke because of true love. Only true love can save Lucy.
      I was asking why Regina wasn't worried that if Henry woke up Lucy with True love's kiss that would cause the curse holding everyone to be broken as well.

      Because...it failed. Henry called Regina and told her that he tried.

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    • An interesting episode indeed. 

      I obviously liked it, however I have to admit that it felt way too rushed. I know they'll probably going to explain most of the things in 7B, however I wished that at least in the first flashback scene, they would have given a bit of context (ex. how much time passed before H&J's first kiss and when they got Lucy, when did Tremaine started working with them etc.). Not to mention the timeline, who has now really become wibbly-wobbley-timey-wimey, and they don't even bother to give an explenation (I'm referring to Zelena and Robin).

      Skipping to the positive, I'm very very intrigued by the coven of witches, and I wonder who else is a part of it, apart from Gothel and Drizella. I'm glad they aknowledged S6's finale (even if I think the Blue Fairy would have had more sense than Tiger Lily) and, even if I kinda expected it, I liked the twist of Regina casting the curse to save Henry. Also, Alice and Robin have great chemistry and can't wait to know more about both. Now, the strongest part: Zelena. Gosh I missed her! The spin class made me laugh so much! And I'm interested to know this man she's engaged to. Another thing that intrigued me but I couldn't entirely understand was Weaver's test on Anastasia. Hopefully the girl's role will be clearer in 7B.

      So, an emotional but kinda confusing episode. Kinda undecided about the grade, I'd say between 8 and 8.5.

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    • AlbOuat wrote:

      Another thing that intrigued me but I couldn't entirely understand was Weaver's test on Anastasia. 

      Rumple was testing to see if Ana was the guardian. So, the first part was a trick question. None of them were real, so even if Ana picked the obvious answer, it wouldn't be true. So, Rumple was certain that she passed the test as she found the real dagger hidden away, not the fake prop one.

      Thus, she's the Guardian.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      Anonymius wrote:
      123Raura wrote:
      Anonymius wrote:
      Oh and why wasn't Regina afraid that if he woke up Lucy then the curse would have been broken?  I'm sorry, I just keep finding things wrong with this episode!
      Because when Emma woke Henry up, the curse broke because of true love. Only true love can save Lucy.
      I was asking why Regina wasn't worried that if Henry woke up Lucy with True love's kiss that would cause the curse holding everyone to be broken as well.
      Because...it failed. Henry called Regina and told her that he tried.

      ok, I thought that using true love's kiss was Regina's idea.  Then why did Zelena tell her to tell him to try true love's kiss as that would have broken the dark curse as well causing Henry to die.  Which Regina didn't seem to think of was a cause for concern.

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:

      He actually wasn't being rude, those are both exact quotes from the show. Regina said the first one in this episode, and Rumple said the second one in 511.

      He was absolutely being rude (There's a little thing called context, dear), and it is MY job to tell him so. Do not meddle.

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    • Anonymius wrote:

      ok, I thought that using true love's kiss was Regina's idea.  Then why did Zelena tell her to tell him to try true love's kiss as that would have broken the dark curse as well causing Henry to die.  Which Regina didn't seem to think of was a cause for concern.

      No, we see that Henry did so because he read it in the book and was inspired to do so. Henry called her after that.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      AlbOuat wrote:
      Another thing that intrigued me but I couldn't entirely understand was Weaver's test on Anastasia. 
      Rumple was testing to see if Ana was the guardian. So, the first part was a trick question. None of them were real, so even if Ana picked the obvious answer, it wouldn't be true. So, Rumple was certain that she passed the test as she found the real dagger hidden away, not the fake prop one.

      Thus, she's the Guardian.

      Oh, so it's confirmed! Thanks for explaining :)

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    • Only way I see Henry being saved is that he will end up being the guardian and Rumple will sacrifice himself for Henry thus Henry becoming immortal.  I think the show wants us to think that Alice is the guardian because when Rumple showed up to the realm she was the first one he ran into but don't forget that Henry was just seconds behind Alice in that very same realm.  Rumple in the beginning could never sacrifice his power to save his son and now he'll have to in order to save his grandson and great-grandaughter which will reunite him with Belle.  

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    • DSP88 wrote: Only way I see Henry being saved is that he will end up being the guardian and Rumple will sacrifice himself for Henry thus Henry becoming immortal.  I think the show wants us to think that Alice is the guardian because when Rumple showed up to the realm she was the first one he ran into but don't forget that Henry was just seconds behind Alice in that very same realm.  Rumple in the beginning could never sacrifice his power to save his son and now he'll have to in order to save his grandson and great-grandaughter which will reunite him with Belle.  

      and Baelfire at Mount Olympus

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    • DSP88 wrote:
      Only way I see Henry being saved is that he will end up being the guardian and Rumple will sacrifice himself for Henry thus Henry becoming immortal.  I think the show wants us to think that Alice is the guardian because when Rumple showed up to the realm she was the first one he ran into but don't forget that Henry was just seconds behind Alice in that very same realm.  Rumple in the beginning could never sacrifice his power to save his son and now he'll have to in order to save his grandson and great-grandaughter which will reunite him with Belle.  

      And thus will once again fulfill the prophecy of Henry being the Dark One's undoing!!!

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    • The first forty minutes of this episode didn’t grab me. I think it would’ve been better for Zelena to not have a cursed persona so that the episode would be focused on more interesting storylines. I liked that Regina cast the curse, but it was so anticlimactic. It could be that they’ve done the curse so many times, it could be that she didn’t use a heart and their was a poor excuse for that.

      The present-day scenes in Hyperion Heights were the best in the entire episode, especially with Rumple-Gothel-Victoria etc. I wish they spent more time on the flashbacks, maybe it wasn’t soon enough for them to reveal the curse caster. I wasn’t sure at first, but now I realize they have a lot to explain.

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    • Thejesscen wrote:
      DSP88 wrote:
      Only way I see Henry being saved is that he will end up being the guardian and Rumple will sacrifice himself for Henry thus Henry becoming immortal.  I think the show wants us to think that Alice is the guardian because when Rumple showed up to the realm she was the first one he ran into but don't forget that Henry was just seconds behind Alice in that very same realm.  Rumple in the beginning could never sacrifice his power to save his son and now he'll have to in order to save his grandson and great-grandaughter which will reunite him with Belle.  
      And thus will once again fulfill the prophecy of Henry being the Dark One's undoing!!!

      Yes!  I forgot about the prophecy.  It all fits.  

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    • Utter solitude wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:

      He actually wasn't being rude, those are both exact quotes from the show. Regina said the first one in this episode, and Rumple said the second one in 511.

      He was absolutely being rude (There's a little thing called context, dear), and it is MY job to tell him so. Do not meddle.

      Lol are you serious??

      "Your questions are pointless" is used by Rumple in 512 when the group asked him some couple of questions. And it's been used by fans for quite some time as a joke, for fun. Like "How did Hades model the Underworld" ----> "Your questions are pointless".

      He's now saying "I'm not here to discuss timelines" is the new joke. Like "How did no one age during 8 years"----->"I'm not here to discuss timelines". 

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    • There was ALOT going on this episode. Because Adelaide Kane isn't a starring member, I was scared she was gonna be killed when Gothel threw her down the well (she's alive!....for now).

      I'm glad TLK didn't work with Henry and Lucy. He cares about her, but it doesn't seem feasible that he loves her already.

      The coven really intrigues me. They've focused on magic from folklore and stories (obviously), but I think it's cool that we're seeing things from the occult - much darker. I'd like to know more about the other witches too (please don't just be hooded figures like with the Dark Ones)

      Since Robin's here, I wonder if they're gonna show grown up Neal too - that would be cool.

      Sidenote: Did anyone else think Alice looked really pretty this ep? (She always does, but alot in the flashabcks). Her and Robin are a good-looking couple lol.

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    • Do you think Rapunzel and Drizella will join forces now that they both share a common enemy - Gothel?

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    • To be honest, during that spin class scene, I actually wanted the people in the spin class to literally turn into monkeys and fly XD

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    • I also loved the idea of the Coven. 4B tried to go there but it didn’t work out very well, but this is a lot more menacing and darker. They seem more united by one goal rather than with the Queens of Darkness who didn’t really do anything for each other.

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    • I Was So Amazed To See Zelena Again And To See Adult Robin For The First Time But I Was Shocked That She And Alice Are A Couple That's Like Crazy. Zelena Also Getting Married After All This Holy Crap Then The Curse Definely Tops Regina's Big Time I Mean Thanks To That Poison If The Curse Breaks Henry Dies And Thanks To That Bitch Tremaine For Bringing Back Anastasia If It's Not Lucy Dies Not To Mention The Fact That Gothel Now Having Anastasia Is No Doubt Planning To Invade Our World With No One To Stop Them. The 2nd Half Of This Show Is About To Top The 1st Half Big Time I Mean It's A Living Nightmare To Them But It's Ratings Gold For Us And The Creators Of The Show.

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    • Very good episode. I think this season is quite good. Overall, it works better than S5 and S6 to me. I just thought the double episode didn't feel that appropriate. Perhaps if they had 11 episodes before the hiatus they could distribute the story in a better fashion. This episode is very interesting.

      I'm curious to see what did Rumple sacrifice for Alice to be with Robin and why he did that.

      Also curious as to why did the Perp have the Coven's symbol as a tattoo.

      I'm just really upset with the timeline thing. That line by Regina was insulting for the viewers.

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    • (I posted this on an article on a site where people kept tryna ship Drizella and Henry, which was annoying. But I also included my opinions on the episode, and wanted to share them. And yeah, that timeline is a doozy. 23 years old Robin, but Henry isn't even 30 until the curse happens. Like huh? We need to know. Like is their farm on a 3rd world? A place out of time like how Belle and Rumple had theirs?)

      I really liked seeing a new villain theme, not just one or two evil people to contend with, at a time; but a whole coven of them. As to people shipping Henry and Drizella, it's just another Catherine Nolan type thing, that she orchestrated herself. How can you think they have chemistry, when she's the one who poisoned him, to kill him? We don't see Henry and Jacinda's love building much, because it's only the first season of this reboot. It was the same for Snow White and Charming in the beginning. The first time we see them together, he's kissing her awake, and then there's suddenly a baby in a tree. It look seasons to fully flesh out their past, and help them fall for each other again in Storybrooke. Heck, David made her the "other woman" and an adulterer before the curse was broken. They were drawn to each other without realizing why, or any real relationship building. So it makes sense that this would happen again, with Henry and Jacinda. They have a daughter together, and don't know it. And again, the only person who thinks they need to be together, no matter what, is a precocious kid with a story book. 

      As for the whole Gothel x Anastasia thing, I feel like Ana is a little too naïve, probably because of how young she was when she half-died. Gothel has no magic here, she was told that she was the only one here with any. And she heard Gothel say that she now has Drizzie's magic. What can Gothel do to her to keep her in that room? Not a darn thing. It's obvious, that before she fell in that ice, Gothel did something to her. Or even as she cast her spell to preserve her. Maybe in her dreams. It's likely that Gothel broke the ice on purpose too.

      I'm just sad that we have to wait until March for it to come back. I really like this season. I think too many people were expecting to have all the established story building that we had in the last version, But that took years. And we're not going with the same people. The only thing that seems to be the same, in these different worlds, is Neverland. These are new stories, new people, for the most part, and it's gonna take time. And I'm quite sure, that it'll end up just as good as the previous. A show we can be proud of.

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    • Lola987 wrote:
      There was ALOT going on this episode. Because Adelaide Kane isn't a starring member, I was scared she was gonna be killed when Gothel threw her down the well (she's alive!....for now).

      I'm glad TLK didn't work with Henry and Lucy. He cares about her, but it doesn't seem feasible that he loves her already.

      The coven really intrigues me. They've focused on magic from folklore and stories (obviously), but I think it's cool that we're seeing things from the occult - much darker. I'd like to know more about the other witches too (please don't just be hooded figures like with the Dark Ones)

      Since Robin's here, I wonder if they're gonna show grown up Neal too - that would be cool.

      Sidenote: Did anyone else think Alice looked really pretty this ep? (She always does, but alot in the flashabcks). Her and Robin are a good-looking couple lol.

      I agree. When Robin started saying a name with 'A', I thought she said Aidan. And I swore Regina said "he", but when Alice said she would lose "her", I knew it was Robin. And really, I'm glad to see another lesbian couple that actually worked out. Mulan didn't get her girl. And Red and Dorothy were only shown in the end. We don't know what happened. And we STILL don't know if the couples in the magical realms can have babies in same-sex couples. I mean magic exists for a reason right? Or if they just adopt, and those kids are part of new stories? Who knows? I want to. And I want to know who Henry's sister is. She'd be like 9, right? 

      And I had been worried that Regina was going to have to crush the heart of the person she loved most. Turns out the dark curse can be different in differnet worlds. But all that really maakes me wonder who or rather, what, Gothel is. Like why does she need the Guardian? Why is she so obsessed with Rapunzel's family in the first place? It seems like more than just  a result of the turnips. What is her damage?

      She calls herself Mother, but cares not for her own child. She uses lonely children, and twists them. And yet, is obsessed with family. What is that about?

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    • MooniePie86 wrote:
      Lola987 wrote:
      There was ALOT going on this episode. Because Adelaide Kane isn't a starring member, I was scared she was gonna be killed when Gothel threw her down the well (she's alive!....for now).

      I'm glad TLK didn't work with Henry and Lucy. He cares about her, but it doesn't seem feasible that he loves her already.

      The coven really intrigues me. They've focused on magic from folklore and stories (obviously), but I think it's cool that we're seeing things from the occult - much darker. I'd like to know more about the other witches too (please don't just be hooded figures like with the Dark Ones)

      Since Robin's here, I wonder if they're gonna show grown up Neal too - that would be cool.

      Sidenote: Did anyone else think Alice looked really pretty this ep? (She always does, but alot in the flashabcks). Her and Robin are a good-looking couple lol.

      I agree. When Robin started saying a name with 'A', I thought she said Aidan. And I swore Regina said "he", but when Alice said she would lose "her", I knew it was Robin. And really, I'm glad to see another lesbian couple that actually worked out. Mulan didn't get her girl. And Red and Dorothy were only shown in the end. We don't know what happened. And we STILL don't know if the couples in the magical realms can have babies in same-sex couples. I mean magic exists for a reason right? Or if they just adopt, and those kids are part of new stories? Who knows? I want to. And I want to know who Henry's sister is. She'd be like 9, right? 

      And I had been worried that Regina was going to have to crush the heart of the person she loved most. Turns out the dark curse can be different in differnet worlds. But all that really maakes me wonder who or rather, what, Gothel is. Like why does she need the Guardian? Why is she so obsessed with Rapunzel's family in the first place? It seems like more than just  a result of the turnips. What is her damage?

      She calls herself Mother, but cares not for her own child. She uses lonely children, and twists them. And yet, is obsessed with family. What is that about?

      They could always turn one into a pseudo male briefly, like they did as revelad in fate/apocrypha.

      I still think the way they got around the dark curse was a bit of a cheat?  What happened to all magic comes with a price?  This seems less costly.

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    • Lola987 wrote:
      There was ALOT going on this episode. Because Adelaide Kane isn't a starring member, I was scared she was gonna be killed when Gothel threw her down the well (she's alive!....for now).

      I'm glad TLK didn't work with Henry and Lucy. He cares about her, but it doesn't seem feasible that he loves her already.

      The coven really intrigues me. They've focused on magic from folklore and stories (obviously), but I think it's cool that we're seeing things from the occult - much darker. I'd like to know more about the other witches too (please don't just be hooded figures like with the Dark Ones)

      Since Robin's here, I wonder if they're gonna show grown up Neal too - that would be cool.

      Sidenote: Did anyone else think Alice looked really pretty this ep? (She always does, but alot in the flashabcks). Her and Robin are a good-looking couple lol.

      It doesn't matter how their relationship goes as their cursed selves, as their love for each other before is not affected by the curse, as seen previously whenever magic is used to alter their personas.  Although I do agree, not much has been shown of the relationship between Henry and Lucy.  But maybe that's because I tend to skip the bits when she's going on about the curse and he doesn't believe her.

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    • CadoDoan wrote:

      Lol are you serious??

      "Your questions are pointless" is used by Rumple in 512 when the group asked him some couple of questions. And it's been used by fans for quite some time as a joke, for fun. Like "How did Hades model the Underworld" ----> "Your questions are pointless".

      He's now saying "I'm not here to discuss timelines" is the new joke. Like "How did no one age during 8 years"----->"I'm not here to discuss timelines". 

      Guys, and you know how much I HATE to be saying this, but I am doing my job and you need to butt out of it, and certainly there is no reason to be rude to me for giving a simple warning. When I see a rude comment, I take action. Do not undermine the justified warnings given out by admins/mods. Do not presume to tell me "well that wasn't rude" as if I have no idea what phrases the fandom uses. I am very much aware of things, as I am of the context in which this instance occurred. I also pay attention to the ways users talk to each other and am very much aware of which users flirt with boundaries. It's my job and I take it serious.

      Nothing further needs to be said on this issue, so let's get back to topic.

      Anonymius wrote:

      Sidenote: Did anyone else think Alice looked really pretty this ep? (She always does, but alot in the flashabcks). Her and Robin are a good-looking couple lol.

      I agree

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    • This was the first episode this season, where the story actually moved forward. The effect used for this curse was also pretty cool looking. 

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    • Anonymius wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Anonymius wrote:
      123Raura wrote:
      Anonymius wrote:
      Oh and why wasn't Regina afraid that if he woke up Lucy then the curse would have been broken?  I'm sorry, I just keep finding things wrong with this episode!
      Because when Emma woke Henry up, the curse broke because of true love. Only true love can save Lucy.
      I was asking why Regina wasn't worried that if Henry woke up Lucy with True love's kiss that would cause the curse holding everyone to be broken as well.
      Because...it failed. Henry called Regina and told her that he tried.
      ok, I thought that using true love's kiss was Regina's idea.  Then why did Zelena tell her to tell him to try true love's kiss as that would have broken the dark curse as well causing Henry to die.  Which Regina didn't seem to think of was a cause for concern.

      I will also add that the kiss didn't work because Lucy's belief was taken away by Rapunzel. In Season 1, Henry still had belief when Emma broke the curse. And, I'm sure that Henry would just be knocked into a coma if the curse did break. And they'd have to find a way to awaken him just as they actually have to do with Lucy. So, considering the circumstances with the coven, and Gothel, and Lucy's coma, and Rumple's search and everything going on, I'm sure Regina knew that Henry being in a coma would have just been another problem to solve.

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    • The producers definitely glossed over why Zelena ended up in the NEF. 

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    • Lola987 wrote:

      Sidenote: Did anyone else think Alice looked really pretty this ep? (She always does, but alot in the flashabcks). Her and Robin are a good-looking couple lol.

      She always looks creepy to me (By the way, her outfit looked Little Red Riding Hood-ish)

      Gothel is supposed to be creepy, but she is the one who looked pretty to me lol

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    • Creepy is the sexist thing ever.

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    • Oh I forgot to mention it, but this episode pretty much killed the "Lucy is Lucifer the cat" theory 

      =(

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    • I like the Alice and Robin moment, but I think Vulnerable Alice (which I like) came off a bit more like this was Alice during visitation time at the mental ward at first watch. Was a subversion of my expectations which I understand better after rewatch.

      But LOL-worthy moment was: Music swelling, Alice and Robin embrace, Music peaks, Alice and Robin kiss, Rumple is shown in his own cut turning away!

      It almost came off as if Rumple was unsatisfied, but they were intending for Rumple to be giving them a private moment. I rewatched it and it just made me laugh. They should have cut that out as it was weirdly placed.

      Gothel did appear to be upping the pretty vibe. She usually is talking nature and vague threats, while Alice hides behind trees. Both were great though. 

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    • GarretW1797 wrote:
      Anonymius wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Anonymius wrote:
      123Raura wrote:
      Anonymius wrote:
      Oh and why wasn't Regina afraid that if he woke up Lucy then the curse would have been broken?  I'm sorry, I just keep finding things wrong with this episode!
      Because when Emma woke Henry up, the curse broke because of true love. Only true love can save Lucy.
      I was asking why Regina wasn't worried that if Henry woke up Lucy with True love's kiss that would cause the curse holding everyone to be broken as well.
      Because...it failed. Henry called Regina and told her that he tried.
      ok, I thought that using true love's kiss was Regina's idea.  Then why did Zelena tell her to tell him to try true love's kiss as that would have broken the dark curse as well causing Henry to die.  Which Regina didn't seem to think of was a cause for concern.
      I will also add that the kiss didn't work because Lucy's belief was taken away by Rapunzel. In Season 1, Henry still had belief when Emma broke the curse. And, I'm sure that Henry would just be knocked into a coma if the curse did break. And they'd have to find a way to awaken him just as they actually have to do with Lucy. So, considering the circumstances with the coven, and Gothel, and Lucy's coma, and Rumple's search and everything going on, I'm sure Regina knew that Henry being in a coma would have just been another problem to solve.

      I think the difference is, that Drizella made the key to breaking it, Henry and Jacinda's love, tlk. Not Henry and Lucy. His kiss would have only broken her illness/curse. He wouldn't have his memories back, but it would make him wonder. Buttttt Regina is saying, that they have to break the curse i.e. Henry and Jacinda kiss, in order to have the power to save Lucy. However, that is what would bring magic back, and Henry's magical poison would also return. And he would die. Unless they pull a Last Breath thing on him, to preserve him. And it's not like he can be put in another sleeping curse safely now.

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    • I think Henry is the new savior and that he will have powers! So Anastasia could help Henry and Lucy!

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    • Andikomformisis wrote:
      I think Henry is the new savior and that he will have powers! So Anastasia could help Henry and Lucy!

      With Henry being the Arthur and having the Heart of the truest believer it would be too much for him to be a "Savior" too. Also this Season instead of a savior I think they are doing the Guardian thing. 

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    • KnocknickKnock wrote:

      Andikomformisis wrote:
      I think Henry is the new savior and that he will have powers! So Anastasia could help Henry and Lucy!

      With Henry being the Arthur and having the Heart of the truest believer it would be too much for him to be a "Savior" too. Also this Season instead of a savior I think they are doing the Guardian thing. 

      Maybe the Guardian is the new Savior in this book.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      But LOL-worthy moment was: Music swelling, Alice and Robin embrace, Music peaks, Alice and Robin kiss, Rumple is shown in his own cut turning away!

      It almost came off as if Rumple was unsatisfied, but they were intending for Rumple to be giving them a private moment. I rewatched it and it just made me laugh. They should have cut that out as it was weirdly placed.

      Rumple was like

      ??? Excuse me? I'm explaining my plan to the audience  

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    • It felt to rushed and it just wasnt a good "Winter Finale"  that i hoped it whould be ,thats it.So on my side not it was kinda dissapointing.

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    • GarretW1797 wrote:
      Anonymius wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Anonymius wrote:
      123Raura wrote:
      Anonymius wrote:
      Oh and why wasn't Regina afraid that if he woke up Lucy then the curse would have been broken?  I'm sorry, I just keep finding things wrong with this episode!
      Because when Emma woke Henry up, the curse broke because of true love. Only true love can save Lucy.
      I was asking why Regina wasn't worried that if Henry woke up Lucy with True love's kiss that would cause the curse holding everyone to be broken as well.
      Because...it failed. Henry called Regina and told her that he tried.
      ok, I thought that using true love's kiss was Regina's idea.  Then why did Zelena tell her to tell him to try true love's kiss as that would have broken the dark curse as well causing Henry to die.  Which Regina didn't seem to think of was a cause for concern.
      I will also add that the kiss didn't work because Lucy's belief was taken away by Rapunzel. In Season 1, Henry still had belief when Emma broke the curse. And, I'm sure that Henry would just be knocked into a coma if the curse did break. And they'd have to find a way to awaken him just as they actually have to do with Lucy. So, considering the circumstances with the coven, and Gothel, and Lucy's coma, and Rumple's search and everything going on, I'm sure Regina knew that Henry being in a coma would have just been another problem to solve.

      I think Henry would start dying rather than just be in a coma.

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    • So, I can't read all the comments, did people like this episode in general? I really didn't, sadly, left me disappointed, most of the twists were from the Dark Swan arc, including Henry's situation = how Hook became a Dark One, the hooded figures, etc. Plus they shouldn't have already had Robin and Alice kiss but slowly build their relationship since they have more episodes this time than they did with Red.

      Is this post allowed here? I'm not hating on the episode or the season.

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    • Chameleon-Guy wrote: So, I can't read all the comments, did people like this episode in general? I really didn't, sadly, left me disappointed, most of the twists were from the Dark Swan arc, including Henry's situation = how Hook became a Dark One, the hooded figures, etc. Plus they shouldn't have already had Robin and Alice kiss but slowly build their relationship since they have more episodes this time than they did with Red.

      Is this post allowed here? I'm not hating on the episode or the season.

      It’s okay to be disappointed. But I don’t get your post. This episode was nothing like 5A. Hooded figures happen all the time across all media, which just means “You’ll find out later”.

      Robin and Alice is doing a reversal so that it creates a need for flashbacks. Get the hurrah/audience on board to some degree and then tell the story. See Ella and Henry’s relationship of the slow build in flashbacks.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:

      Chameleon-Guy wrote: So, I can't read all the comments, did people like this episode in general? I really didn't, sadly, left me disappointed, most of the twists were from the Dark Swan arc, including Henry's situation = how Hook became a Dark One, the hooded figures, etc. Plus they shouldn't have already had Robin and Alice kiss but slowly build their relationship since they have more episodes this time than they did with Red.

      Is this post allowed here? I'm not hating on the episode or the season.

      It’s okay to be disappointed. But I don’t get your post. This episode was nothing like 5A. Hooded figures happen all the time across all media, which just means “You’ll find out later”.

      Robin and Alice is doing a reversal so that it creates a need for flashbacks. Get the hurrah/audience on board to some degree and then tell the story. See Ella and Henry’s relationship of the slow build in flashbacks.

      I think he was also talking about the whole 'loved one dying so have to do something to save his life'.

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    • Anonymius wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:

      Chameleon-Guy wrote: So, I can't read all the comments, did people like this episode in general? I really didn't, sadly, left me disappointed, most of the twists were from the Dark Swan arc, including Henry's situation = how Hook became a Dark One, the hooded figures, etc. Plus they shouldn't have already had Robin and Alice kiss but slowly build their relationship since they have more episodes this time than they did with Red.

      Is this post allowed here? I'm not hating on the episode or the season.

      It’s okay to be disappointed. But I don’t get your post. This episode was nothing like 5A. Hooded figures happen all the time across all media, which just means “You’ll find out later”.

      Robin and Alice is doing a reversal so that it creates a need for flashbacks. Get the hurrah/audience on board to some degree and then tell the story. See Ella and Henry’s relationship of the slow build in flashbacks.

      I think he was also talking about the whole 'loved one dying so have to do something to save his life'.

      Thanks. I can see that, but it’s pretty common all over Once, just that this one involved a Dark Curse. It’s a typical hostage negotiation/ manipulation thing. It’s a minor aspect in the larger scheme of things like a villain monologue by their evil plan to the heroes.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:

      Anonymius wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:

      Chameleon-Guy wrote: So, I can't read all the comments, did people like this episode in general? I really didn't, sadly, left me disappointed, most of the twists were from the Dark Swan arc, including Henry's situation = how Hook became a Dark One, the hooded figures, etc. Plus they shouldn't have already had Robin and Alice kiss but slowly build their relationship since they have more episodes this time than they did with Red.

      Is this post allowed here? I'm not hating on the episode or the season.

      It’s okay to be disappointed. But I don’t get your post. This episode was nothing like 5A. Hooded figures happen all the time across all media, which just means “You’ll find out later”.

      Robin and Alice is doing a reversal so that it creates a need for flashbacks. Get the hurrah/audience on board to some degree and then tell the story. See Ella and Henry’s relationship of the slow build in flashbacks.

      I think he was also talking about the whole 'loved one dying so have to do something to save his life'.
      Thanks. I can see that, but it’s pretty common all over Once, just that this one involved a Dark Curse. It’s a typical hostage negotiation/ manipulation thing. It’s a minor aspect in the larger scheme of things like a villain monologue by their evil plan to the heroes.

      I mean with the whole 'hero had to do something distasteful in order to save character's life which we didn't know at the beginning.'

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    • I agree. The episode did seem rushed. I think they went through so much, it seemed quicker than it did.

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    • Although I don't see a problem with searching for other options as long as Lucy isn't in completely critical condition, if the only two options are to 1) break the curse and save Lucy or 2) keep the curse to preserve Henry, option 1 is the better one. Not only is Lucy a little girl, but breaking the curse will also save all of the inhabitants of the NEF who are under the curse. Saving Lucy's life will also bring back, for example, Robin and Alice's happy ending. Henry is, unfortunately, only one person.

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    • I think Robin, Zelena's daughter, isn't affected by the curse. I think she's awake, wherever she is ...

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    • DatNuttyKid wrote:
      Although I don't see a problem with searching for other options as long as Lucy isn't in completely critical condition, if the only two options are to 1) break the curse and save Lucy or 2) keep the curse to preserve Henry, option 1 is the better one. Not only is Lucy a little girl, but breaking the curse will also save all of the inhabitants of the NEF who are under the curse. Saving Lucy's life will also bring back, for example, Robin and Alice's happy ending. Henry is, unfortunately, only one person.

      Eh, they'll find some way to save him.  They always do. 

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    • I'm really looking forward to seeing Alice and Rumples relationship. We saw some of that in "Beauty", but this episode shwoed he really cared about her - he gave Hook the white elephant and when the Dark Curse came, Rumple, the all-powerful Dark One, held onto Alice. Cool what they can show with short scenes.

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    • Anonymius wrote:
      DatNuttyKid wrote:
      Although I don't see a problem with searching for other options as long as Lucy isn't in completely critical condition, if the only two options are to 1) break the curse and save Lucy or 2) keep the curse to preserve Henry, option 1 is the better one. Not only is Lucy a little girl, but breaking the curse will also save all of the inhabitants of the NEF who are under the curse. Saving Lucy's life will also bring back, for example, Robin and Alice's happy ending. Henry is, unfortunately, only one person.
      Eh, they'll find some way to save him.  They always do. 

      Right, obviously. Just thinking theoretically if this weren't a show about happy endings and hope.

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    • Lola987 wrote: I'm really looking forward to seeing Alice and Rumples relationship. We saw some of that in "Beauty", but this episode shwoed he really cared about her - he gave Hook the white elephant and when the Dark Curse came, Rumple, the all-powerful Dark One, held onto Alice. Cool what they can show with short scenes.

      I really want to know what Rumple did for her that warranted her loyalty.

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    • Rewatched it, it was alright, pretty good in some parts, good points:

      + Alice and Robin's relationship can grow and still be shown in flashbacks and present day, so we'll see


      + The hooded figures are likely not just to remain hooded like the Dark Ones in season 5, so this is interesting


      + Regina cast the curse, you guys predict all the twists so the surprise is kinda ruined for me, but bravo! I felt it was a good move though.


      + The dilemma about killing Henry or Lucy, they need to find a loophole


      + Obviously Zelena's cursed persona, I wish we saw more of her, now she already remembers everything


      But yeah, stuff seems rushed, it happens too fast, some characters are literally useless like Rapunzel, Tiana and Jack, who are barely seen. And I do really think the situation of cursing everyone to protect Henry is similar to when Emma turned Hook into a Dark One.

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    • Chameleon-Guy wrote:

      + Obviously Zelena's cursed persona, I wish we saw more of her, now she already remembers everything

      But as she puts, she is both now. Just because she remembers everything from her past doesn't mean she forgets her new memories. Just like how Roni can't be reverted to Regina completely, I don't think Kelly will revert to Zelena. That's why I love curses xD

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    • I just realized that both Alice and Robin were conceived by wicked mothers abusing their fathers, disguising as someone else, which makes the pairing hilarious and ironic!

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    • All these poisoned hearts could have been cured by the Elixir of the Wounded Heart, but that's too convenience plot wise.

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    • Seasrmar wrote:
      All these poisoned hearts could have been cured by the Elixir of the Wounded Heart, but that's too convenience plot wise.

      The Elixir of the Wounded Heart was made out to be a rare commodity in Season 4. The only place we've ever seen someone get it from is Zelena in the Emerald City, but since that last happened, Zelena has been banished. It may have been lost in the battle between her and Dorothy. But even if it wasn't, Henry was already mostly dead when Regina cast the Dark Curse and they probably couldn't get to Oz that quickly.

      Hook and Alice is more questionable since they've had ~28 years working on this. Maybe the Elixir of the Wounded Heart doesn't work on this kind of poison. We've only see it work on heartbreak and the Darkness consuming Rumple, and the latter it only worked temporarily. We don't even know if Henry's heart was poisoned.

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    • Another question would be why did they need to use the tree/magical wood? 

      Using a magic bean wouldn't have been easier. In season 7 it seems they have plenty of them. And, unlike the wardrobe, all of the them could have traveled to SB or the EF. 

      Or even more, use the Hat. Zelena had it in 6x22.

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    • 8Rob wrote:
      Another question would be why did they need to use the tree/magical wood? 

      Using a magic bean wouldn't have been easier. In season 7 it seems they have plenty of them. And, unlike the wardrobe, all of the them could have traveled to SB or the EF. 

      Or even more, use the Hat. Zelena had it in 6x22.

      travelling to a different realm wouldn't have been enough.  have you forgotten that the curse can take people from different realms (e.g frankenstein).  Heck we even saw Henry and Regina travel to different realms (with ease, like they were all just down the corner!)  The wardrobe does more than just transport you to a different realm, it protect the people inside from teh curse.

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    • 8Rob wrote:
      Another question would be why did they need to use the tree/magical wood? 

      Using a magic bean wouldn't have been easier. In season 7 it seems they have plenty of them. And, unlike the wardrobe, all of the them could have traveled to SB or the EF. 

      Or even more, use the Hat. Zelena had it in 6x22.

      Perhaps Magic beans don't exist or are rare in NFTL?

      After all, the only portals we have seen in NFTL were randomly occuring ones. They need to get a physicist fast becaue I think too many rips in the space-time continuum is bad for the planet!

      Many things are dependent on what they had at the time. Zelena was minding her own business on a farm. Why would she bring the hat? Even if she learned about Drizella's plan, Drizella was a statue and then casted the curse in about a day.

      Plus, the curse has been presumably able to reach across magical worlds.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      After all, the only portals we have seen in NFTL were randomly occuring ones. They need to get a physicist fast becaue I think too many rips in the space-time continuum is bad for the planet!


      Henry and Regina seemed to travel to different realms with ease in this episode without any rips in the space-time continuum.

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    • Anonymius wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      After all, the only portals we have seen in NFTL were randomly occuring ones. They need to get a physicist fast becaue I think too many rips in the space-time continuum is bad for the planet!


      Henry and Regina seemed to travel to different realms with ease in this episode without any rips in the space-time continuum.

      I was making a joke/satirical statement about how Henry and Alice we finding random portals. 

      And no, neither of them traveled to a different realm this episode.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      Anonymius wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      After all, the only portals we have seen in NFTL were randomly occuring ones. They need to get a physicist fast becaue I think too many rips in the space-time continuum is bad for the planet!


      Henry and Regina seemed to travel to different realms with ease in this episode without any rips in the space-time continuum.
      I was making a joke/satirical statement about how Henry and Alice we finding random portals. 

      And no, neither of them traveled to a different realm this episode.

      yes they did.  Henry took Lucy to the original aka the enchanted forest we know (he even called it 'the original enchanted forest' and referred to it as 'this realm' as in ' a different realm from the one they were previously in) and Regina went to whatever realm Zelena was in with a different timeline or did you think she was just conveniently in the same realm as everyone else happened to be?

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    • Anonymius wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Anonymius wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      After all, the only portals we have seen in NFTL were randomly occuring ones. They need to get a physicist fast becaue I think too many rips in the space-time continuum is bad for the planet!


      Henry and Regina seemed to travel to different realms with ease in this episode without any rips in the space-time continuum.
      I was making a joke/satirical statement about how Henry and Alice we finding random portals. 

      And no, neither of them traveled to a different realm this episode.

      yes they did.  Henry took Lucy to the original aka the enchanted forest we know (he even called it 'the original enchanted forest' and referred to it as 'this realm' as in ' a different realm from the one they were previously in) and Regina went to whatever realm Zelena was in with a different timeline or did you think she was just conveniently in the same realm as everyone else happened to be?

      They were all in NEF/NFTL.

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    • Anonymius wrote:
      8Rob wrote:
      Another question would be why did they need to use the tree/magical wood? 

      Using a magic bean wouldn't have been easier. In season 7 it seems they have plenty of them. And, unlike the wardrobe, all of the them could have traveled to SB or the EF. 

      Or even more, use the Hat. Zelena had it in 6x22.

      travelling to a different realm wouldn't have been enough.  have you forgotten that the curse can take people from different realms (e.g frankenstein).  

      Yeah, but without Herny/Regina in NEF, there would be no curse. I meant they should have left after Gothel and the coven freed Drizella

      And you can use magic to protect yourself from the curse anyway

      The first Dark Curse had to take Hook to the LWM, but he was able to protect himself with Cora's spell (2x09)

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    • 8Rob wrote:Yeah, but without Herny/Regina in NEF, there would be no curse. I meant they should have left after Gothel and the coven freed Drizella

      And you can use magic to protect yourself from the curse anyway

      The first Dark Curse had to take Hook to the LWM, but he was able to protect himself with Cora's spell (2x09)

      Careful as you are using knowledge that the characters did not know.

      1. Regina and Henry didn't know that they were going to be used to help cast the curse. They didn't know anything except that Drizella made a threat and Gothel and the coven are powerful witches.

      2. That requires preparation. Cora knew about the dark curse for a while and could prepare accordingly. Drizella was freed and casted the curse within a few days.

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    • I meant at the point when Henry and Lucy were about to escape. They said they were going to the LWM with the book to help the rest of the gang to remember. At that point, why didn't all of them just leave that realm with a magic bean. What was the point of leaving Cinderella, Jack, Tiana and rest behind? 

      But anyway, let's pray some of this will be explained in 7B

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    • 8Rob wrote:
      I meant at the point when Henry and Lucy were about to escape. They said they were going to the LWM with the book to help the rest of the gang to remember. At that point, why didn't all of them just leave that realm with a magic bean. What was the point of leaving Cinderella, Jack, Tiana and rest behind? 

      But anyway, let's pray some of this will be explained in 7B

      Once more, where's the proof that they had acess to a magic bean? We've only seen one magic bean and that was in Storybrooke and the others mentioned were by people who were in Storybrooke.

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    • 8Rob wrote:
      Anonymius wrote:
      8Rob wrote:
      Another question would be why did they need to use the tree/magical wood? 

      Using a magic bean wouldn't have been easier. In season 7 it seems they have plenty of them. And, unlike the wardrobe, all of the them could have traveled to SB or the EF. 

      Or even more, use the Hat. Zelena had it in 6x22.

      travelling to a different realm wouldn't have been enough.  have you forgotten that the curse can take people from different realms (e.g frankenstein).  
      Yeah, but without Herny/Regina in NEF, there would be no curse. I meant they should have left after Gothel and the coven freed Drizella

      And you can use magic to protect yourself from the curse anyway

      The first Dark Curse had to take Hook to the LWM, but he was able to protect himself with Cora's spell (2x09)

      They didn't know though at the time that they needed Regina to cast the curse, or that they were going to use Henry to blackmail her to do it.

      Although that is a fair point that Cora was able to stop herself and everyone in that corner of land from being cursed.  Then again this show has always ignored continuity if it would get in the way of the story (like someone said, the writers care more about story and emotion than technicals), even in the first season (like, why didn't Rumple use a wardrobe as opposed to the curse).

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Hook used another one in 7x02. Rumple used another on to go to the NEF in 7x04. And Alice used another one in 7x08 to go to Wonderland

      I find hilarous that the one single time they didn't have a magic bean to escape, was the one time Jack, from the beanstalk fairytale, was with them

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      8Rob wrote:Yeah, but without Herny/Regina in NEF, there would be no curse. I meant they should have left after Gothel and the coven freed Drizella

      And you can use magic to protect yourself from the curse anyway

      The first Dark Curse had to take Hook to the LWM, but he was able to protect himself with Cora's spell (2x09)

      Careful as you are using knowledge that the characters did not know.

      1. Regina and Henry didn't know that they were going to be used to help cast the curse. They didn't know anything except that Drizella made a threat and Gothel and the coven are powerful witches.

      2. That requires preparation. Cora knew about the dark curse for a while and could prepare accordingly. Drizella was freed and casted the curse within a few days.

      I thought they all knew that Cora stopped the curse from affecting the corner of the land they were in.  

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    • 8Rob wrote:
      I meant at the point when Henry and Lucy were about to escape. They said they were going to the LWM with the book to help the rest of the gang to remember. At that point, why didn't all of them just leave that realm with a magic bean. What was the point of leaving Cinderella, Jack, Tiana and rest behind? 

      But anyway, let's pray some of this will be explained in 7B

      like I said, even if they travelled via magic bean the curse would have still got them, and the wardrobe can only protect two people.

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    • 8Rob wrote:
      Hook used another one in 7x02. Rumple used another on to go to the NEF in 7x04. And Alice used another one in 7x08 to go to Wonderland

      I find hilarous that the one single time they didn't have a magic bean to escape, was the one time Jack, from the beanstalk fairytale, was with them

      Alice didn't use a bean. Rumple didn't say that he used a bean or show it. I think you're confusing the new portal CGI as use of Magic Beans. All portals now look like that.

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    • But they deliberately showed us Henry opening that portal with a bean in 7x01

      I thought that was an indication of how the bean portals look like now?

      How do you know that all the portals look exactly like bean portals now?

      Wouldn't that be all levels of confusing? How are we supposed to tell them apart?


      Anyway, I think we should teleport ourselves to the negative thread 

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    • There's too many plotholes to make a list, I think they detract enjoyment from watching the show if someone focuses too much on them, like, you're creating too many problems (so do the writers, though).

      The only thing that needs to be explained for sure is how Rumple became "crocodile" again, I think. And I'm actually surprised they referenced the existance of the 1x02 ingredients for the curse.

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    • Chameleon-Guy wrote: There's too many plotholes to make a list, I think they detract enjoyment from watching the show if someone focuses too much on them, like, you're creating too many problems (so do the writers, though).

      The only thing that needs to be explained for sure is how Rumple became "crocodile" again, I think. And I'm actually surprised they referenced the existance of the 1x02 ingredients for the curse.

      Let’s take the questions to the negative thread or the unanswered questions one.

      (But they didn’t reference 1x02 ingredients, beyond the heart which most dark curse casting involved it.)

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    • Chameleon-Guy wrote:

      The only thing that needs to be explained for sure is how Rumple became "crocodile" again, I think. 

      They explained that Rumple locked away his Mr. Gold persona in his mind, so that when he became cursed, Alice could reawaken that part of him. Locking that part of himself up, is presumably what made him revert to his scaly self.

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    • Lola987 wrote:
      Chameleon-Guy wrote:

      The only thing that needs to be explained for sure is how Rumple became "crocodile" again, I think. 

      They explained that Rumple locked away his Mr. Gold persona in his mind, so that when he became cursed, Alice could reawaken that part of him. Locking that part of himself up, is presumably what made him revert to his scaly self.

      Interesting, I do hope they show how this happened not in just 2 lines but in a future Rumple-centric hour.

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    • Esk's Grade Report

      Plot (2 out of 3)

      + Many developments, primarily Tension/Conflict which is a major narrative element for a story to thrive. Interesting worldbuilding developments, even if some were mentioned in passing or as a joke. Also, it was a flashforward within a flashback which is fairly new for Once.

      - Pacing. It had a lot to accomplish; however, it could have used a little more time and set-up. While novel, it potential sets up certain character relationships and interactions for downturns.

      Character (3.5 out of 4)

      - New: Henry and Lucy were capable of establishing a stong character to character interaction. Their character to character moments maintain a decent level of strength, as does Lucy and Jace, to some degree. However, as mentioned in the Plot section, jumping around the flashback spectrum may hurt Ella and Henry's romance or at least how it is precieved. Unlike the typical: Here's now, Here's how they got here, it is "Here's now, here's how they got--oh wait, here's how they were just before now, and here's how they got there." Drizella hits a turning point as Gothel cements a decently strong presence in this episode. Alice and Robin show potential.

      - Old: Rumple continues to show positive changes from his Machievellian self. Regina shows adaptability to bypass the Dark Curse, even utilizing interesting moments within the cursed personas' lives. Zelena shows her willingness to sacrifice as it continues, which slightly sours Regina's eagerness for Zelena to leave it all behind; however, Regina does pause, even briefly, which shows that her self-centered core is softening, even it's a little.

      Balance (1.5 out of 2)

      - J/J are good writers; however, they were given too much within a limited 42 minutes

      Fandom Outlook (0.5 out of 1)

      - I think it has had mixed results.

      Overall (7.5 out of 10)

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      Esk's Grade Report

      Plot (2 out of 3)

      + Many developments, primarily Tension/Conflict which is a major narrative element for a story to thrive. Interesting worldbuilding developments, even if some were mentioned in passing or as a joke. Also, it was a flashforward within a flashback which is fairly new for Once.

      - Pacing. It had a lot to accomplish; however, it could have used a little more time and set-up. While novel, it potential sets up certain character relationships and interactions for downturns.

      Character (3.5 out of 4)

      - New: Henry and Lucy were capable of establishing a stong character to character interaction. Their character to character moments maintain a decent level of strength, as does Lucy and Jace, to some degree. However, as mentioned in the Plot section, jumping around the flashback spectrum may hurt Ella and Henry's romance or at least how it is precieved. Unlike the typical: Here's now, Here's how they got here, it is "Here's now, here's how they got--oh wait, here's how they were just before now, and here's how they got there." Drizella hits a turning point as Gothel cements a decently strong presence in this episode. Alice and Robin show potential.

      - Old: Rumple continues to show positive changes from his Machievellian self. Regina shows adaptability to bypass the Dark Curse, even utilizing interesting moments within the cursed personas' lives. Zelena shows her willingness to sacrifice as it continues, which slightly sours Regina's eagerness for Zelena to leave it all behind; however, Regina does pause, even briefly, which shows that her self-centered core is softening, even it's a little.

      Balance (1.5 out of 2)

      - J/J are good writers; however, they were given too much within a limited 42 minutes

      Fandom Outlook (0.5 out of 1)

      - I think it has had mixed results.

      Overall (7.5 out of 10)

      7.5 out of 10?  I'd given it a c-, c for a decent plot and scenes, but the minus for way too many things that made no sense and lack of continuity along with too much suspense of belief expected.

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    • There's something that I don't understand in this ep... Where is Zelena's Farm located ? In NEF ? Because when Regina come to ask for help, she says that Robin has grown up so fast but Zelena answer "not in our realm", so it means Zelena and Robin don't live in NEF. So, were they in the "old"EF (I don't think so) or maybe in a part of New Enchanted Forest where time moves differently (even if it seams weird...) ? What did you understand ?

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    • Sucreazerty wrote: There's something that I don't understand in this ep... Where is Zelena's Farm located ? In NEF ? Because when Regina come to ask for help, she says that Robin has grown up so fast but Zelena answer "not in our realm", so it means Zelena and Robin don't live in NEF. So, were they in the "old"EF (I don't think so) or maybe in a part of New Enchanted Forest where time moves differently (even if it seams weird...) ? What did you understand ?

      Bex said that the script said New Fairytale Land, so yes, Emerald Acres Farm is in the same world as NEF.

      I believe that Robin might have spent time in another realm. That is pretty much a given as Zelena hasn’t aged much and Henry was 14 when Robin would be about 1, at least 15 years have passed, so Robin must have aged a little bit quicker in some other realm.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      Sucreazerty wrote: There's something that I don't understand in this ep... Where is Zelena's Farm located ? In NEF ? Because when Regina come to ask for help, she says that Robin has grown up so fast but Zelena answer "not in our realm", so it means Zelena and Robin don't live in NEF. So, were they in the "old"EF (I don't think so) or maybe in a part of New Enchanted Forest where time moves differently (even if it seams weird...) ? What did you understand ?

      Bex said that the script said New Fairytale Land, so yes, Emerald Acres Farm is in the same world as NEF.

      I believe that Robin might have spent time in another realm. That is pretty much a given as Zelena hasn’t aged much and Henry was 14 when Robin would be about 1, at least 15 years have passed, so Robin must have aged a little bit quicker in some other realm.

      Yes, I forgot this NFTL thing on the script, probably that...

      I hope we'll have more explanations about that but thanks for answering :-)

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    • So wait Regina and Robin really did happen to be in the same realm as eveyrone else?

      huh.  Well that's convenient.  Why couldn't they have just been in a different realm that Regina travelled to?

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    • So Henry managed to get to the hospital from San Francisco, yet Nick is nowhere to be seen.  Why is that?

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    • Anonymius wrote:
      So Henry managed to get to the hospital from San Francisco, yet Nick is nowhere to be seen.  Why is that?

      Nick was there. In the background, but he was there.

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    • They just missed their opportunity to take off Henry's shirt at the gym... That's my only negative point about this ep and this season's biggest deception *-* Why the heck aren't they any shirtless men in this show ?

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    • Lady Junky wrote:
      Anonymius wrote:
      So Henry managed to get to the hospital from San Francisco, yet Nick is nowhere to be seen.  Why is that?
      Nick was there. In the background, but he was there.

      Huh.  So he was.  It just seemed odd then that he was a background character and there wasn't a moment between him and Jacinda.  Maybe it's in the deleted scenes.

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    • Gothel lied about breaking the blood magic I am sure a bout that

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    • Black darkness curse wrote:
      Gothel lied about breaking the blood magic I am sure a bout that

      It was confirmed during Season 3 that more witches can do what a single witch can't. It was hinted that the 4 witches of Oz together could break the laws of Magic and Ingrid implied that with the combined strength of Her, Emma and Elsa she could easily overpower Rumple. 

      I don't think Gothel lied seeing as six powerful witches should be able to accomplish such a goal. 

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    • So the curse separated Henry from his family because his heart was poisoned? And it did the same to Alice? According to this episode, Alice's heart was still poisoned when the curse took place. Does that mean she will also die if the curse is broken?

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    • Begfhn wrote:
      So the curse separated Henry from his family because his heart was poisoned? And it did the same to Alice? According to this episode, Alice's heart was still poisoned when the curse took place. Does that mean she will also die if the curse is broken?

      No? 

      Alice isn't curse with a poisoned heart. Hook is. Henry isn't cursed with a poisoned heart, nor anyone he loves. He's just magically poisoned.

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    • Sucreazerty wrote:
      There's something that I don't understand in this ep... Where is Zelena's Farm located ? In NEF ?

      Because when Regina come to ask for help, she says that Robin has grown up so fast but Zelena answer "not in our realm", so it means Zelena and Robin don't live in NEF. So, were they in the "old"EF (I don't think so) or maybe in a part of New Enchanted Forest where time moves differently (even if it seams weird...) ? What did you understand ?

      I think the "our realm" Zelena is refering to is SB.

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    • OnceUponATime863 wrote:
      They just missed their opportunity to take off Henry's shirt at the gym... That's my only negative point about this ep and this season's biggest deception *-* Why the heck aren't they any shirtless men in this show ?

      They have shirtless men on occasion. I mean they could probably have them more often, but they have definitly had them.

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      OnceUponATime863 wrote:
      They just missed their opportunity to take off Henry's shirt at the gym... That's my only negative point about this ep and this season's biggest deception *-* Why the heck aren't they any shirtless men in this show ?
      They have shirtless men on occasion. I mean they could probably have them more often, but they have definitly had them.

      Last time we saw a shirtless man on OUaT was Robin's shower somewhere in season 4 !
      Before that we had Charming's tacos in season 2 and Graham in season 1 which is not a lot... Despite the cast's attractiveness we haven't see a men's torso for three seasons !

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    • OnceUponATime863 wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      OnceUponATime863 wrote:
      They just missed their opportunity to take off Henry's shirt at the gym... That's my only negative point about this ep and this season's biggest deception *-* Why the heck aren't they any shirtless men in this show ?
      They have shirtless men on occasion. I mean they could probably have them more often, but they have definitly had them.
      Last time we saw a shirtless man on OUaT was Robin's shower somewhere in season 4 !
      Before that we had Charming's tacos in season 2 and Graham in season 1 which is not a lot... Despite the cast's attractiveness we haven't see a men's torso for three seasons !

      Don't forget Robin Hood from 2x19 and Macintosh from season 5 ! But, seriously, I've personally always enjoy the fact that this show don't reveal many nudity. It's so opportunistic to show men's torsos or womens bodies for viewers.

      Maybe some people see that like big Disney censorship, which it's possibly true like Cruella who don't smoke, but thanks God OUaT keep his tag of family show rather than sexualised crap shows like teen dramas from the CW. We follow a show for his story and his characters or just for hot guys and girls ?

      Otherwise, I think some Colin's fangirls could be disillusioned if they constantly saw his hairy torso xD 

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    • Kurobator wrote:

      OnceUponATime863 wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      OnceUponATime863 wrote:
      They just missed their opportunity to take off Henry's shirt at the gym... That's my only negative point about this ep and this season's biggest deception *-* Why the heck aren't they any shirtless men in this show ?
      They have shirtless men on occasion. I mean they could probably have them more often, but they have definitly had them.
      Last time we saw a shirtless man on OUaT was Robin's shower somewhere in season 4 !
      Before that we had Charming's tacos in season 2 and Graham in season 1 which is not a lot... Despite the cast's attractiveness we haven't see a men's torso for three seasons !

      Don't forget Robin Hood from 2x19 and Macintosh from season 5 ! But, seriously, I've personally always enjoy the fact that this show don't reveal many nudity. It's so opportunistic to show men's torsos or womens bodies for viewers.

      Maybe some people see that like big Disney censorship, which it's possibly true like Cruella who don't smoke, but thanks God OUaT keep his tag of family show rather than sexualised crap shows like teen dramas from the CW. We follow a show for his story and his characters or just for hot guys and girls ?

      Otherwise, I think some Colin's fangirls could be disillusioned if they constantly saw his hairy torso xD 

      Gosh, how could I forget Macintosh *-* You have a point there but I think they should find a balance between hyper-sexualisation and what they've been doing durig 6 seasons and a half.

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    • I've been super busy with holiday prep that im just now able to do my review for The Eight Witch oh and to those who celebrate Happy Holidays to my Once family! So for my thoughts. I thought the flashbacks were rushed but it didnt bother me as we have he whole 7B and possible future seasons to fill in some blanks. ZELENA...... I have been looking forward to her return and she did not disappoint. Her realization of being cursed and to be a hippieno less was just gold and totally felt like something Bex would say. I'm so excoited for a WickedQueen team up for the second half, to see them defeat these witches! I'm also intriged about Rumple and Alice's relationship, he seems to really care for her. Hook once again was just there, but it really irritated me that in 8+ years he still hadnt figured out how to get the poison out of his heart to with Alice, I really hope that is addressed in 7B. Lastly Lucy and Henry, I'm glad TLK did not wake her. That would have been too much of a repeat of season 1 but I was a little disappointed when it didnt happen.  I'm actually excited to see what the writers come up with for breaking the curse, our heros always find a third way! 

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    • Because Hook and Alice didn't even discuss trying to break (dispel? idk) the poison, I think we'll find out at some point in 7B that it is "impossible" to fix and that by this episode, they've given up. Like how Aurora and Mulan didn't even try to save Phillip until Cora told Aurora it was possible. Then either the Dark Curse got rid of it permanently, or they'll learn about another way once they break the Dark Curse.

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    • At this point im leaning toward the DC getting rid of the poison once its broken

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    • HRHPrincessSierra wrote:
      At this point im leaning toward the DC getting rid of the poison once its broken

      Perhaps they'll have a TLK (Rogers and Tilly) in HH which will nullify the curse of the poisoned heart. Hook was certain that TLK would cure it, yet he sort of hasn't been trying on that front, but I guess it's hard to do TLK when you have ulterior motives.

      My only issue is that from the LWM perspective it'll be like a troubled youth and a cop having TLK (in the totally platonic way). I mean, while emotionally heavy, Henry looks like a creep to Nick, Sabine, or Jace if they were awake/around.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      HRHPrincessSierra wrote:
      At this point im leaning toward the DC getting rid of the poison once its broken
      Perhaps they'll have a TLK (Rogers and Tilly) in HH which will nullify the curse of the poisoned heart. Hook was certain that TLK would cure it, yet he sort of hasn't been trying on that front, but I guess it's hard to do TLK when you have ulterior motives.

      Maybe Rumple will help lead Rogers to the one person he has been really looking for, i.e. Tilly, thats the only way I see TLK working in HH becasue they also have to share the main ingredient in TLK, Love! 

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    • Eskaver
      Eskaver removed this reply because:
      Rant and Rave
      02:09, December 27, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • I got to say, this episode made me want to rip Gothel's and Drizella's hearts out. 

      Also, I remember in the premiere for season seven, that Lady Tremaine told Drizella to never rely on magic for power because it can be taken, but fear lasts forever. Ironically, that's what happens to Ivy because Gothel stole the magic and gave it to Anastasia. what an iconic twist of fate. And Rapunzel was right about Mother Gothel turning against Ivy when she least expected it. Hate that I'm making this reference, but mother really does know best .

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    • Perhaps there was no time jump after all (which I didn't truly believe logically). It just showed ten years have passed for Lucy since she was a baby.

      Now I can't wait for the identities of the witches of Coven.

      We finally got to see who the new gay couple is. Alice and Robin.

      Like father like daughter where Robin has her father's archery skills.

      So now we know that the dark clouds that took Henry were the witches. Which is one reason why we find Henry among them and poisoned. Now we have two lives at risk, Henry and Lucy.

      It was sweet to see Zelena freed from the curse earlier. That's two people freed, her and Regina.

      Like Gideon, we get to see Robin in fairytale clothes like others others firs time such as Emma, Adult Bae, Lily (as a black knight which suits her and which reminded me of Karai), and Adult Pinocchio (even though it was a wish realm version).

      And I can't wait to see how she and Robin got to the NEF in the first place. Perhaps episode 11 would explain, including how they both know about Gothel and the witches.

      It might seem that Anastasia is the guardian for now. But why did I get the feeling that of it is someone else. Cause as usual in drama, nothing is all what it seems in the end.

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    • Rwo

      Eskaver wrote:

      Anonymius wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Anonymius wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      After all, the only portals we have seen in NFTL were randomly occuring ones. They need to get a physicist fast becaue I think too many rips in the space-time continuum is bad for the planet!


      Henry and Regina seemed to travel to different realms with ease in this episode without any rips in the space-time continuum.
      I was making a joke/satirical statement about how Henry and Alice we finding random portals. 

      And no, neither of them traveled to a different realm this episode.

      yes they did.  Henry took Lucy to the original aka the enchanted forest we know (he even called it 'the original enchanted forest' and referred to it as 'this realm' as in ' a different realm from the one they were previously in) and Regina went to whatever realm Zelena was in with a different timeline or did you think she was just conveniently in the same realm as everyone else happened to be?

      They were all in NEF/NFTL.

      The rest of the thread was discussing about the location of Zelena's farm, but the other matter was left abandoned. Henry and Lucy did go to the Original Enchanted Forest (as opposite to the New Enchanted Forest) for the season six finale. The pages need an update.

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    • Rwo wrote:

      Eskaver wrote: They were all in NEF/NFTL.

      The rest of the thread was discussing about the location of Zelena's farm, but the other matter was left abandoned. Henry and Lucy did go to the Original Enchanted Forest (as opposite to the New Enchanted Forest) for the season six finale. The pages need an update.

      No, they did not. One cannot offer any determinable proof based on dialogue. The writers said Henry and Lucy were in NEF in those flashbacks, already.

      link: http://ew.com/tv/2017/09/26/once-upon-time-spoilers-season-7-horowitz-kitsis/

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    • UGH! The wait for the race between life and death is wracking at me! So, I'll post my hopes for 7B:

      1. A backstory explains how and why Zelena and Robin ended up in NEF - honestly, their move to NEF would straighten out the holes in time.

      2. A Gothel backstory - it would be amazing to see her origins, and why she is the way she is. 

      3. Anastasia breaks the curse by waking Lucy up and then saving Henry.

      4. I know this is impossible, but I hope that Drizella and Rapunzel put their woes behind and join forces with Zelena, Regina. 

      5. We get to see a grown-up Prince Neal

      6. We get to meet Emma and Killian's unborn child. 

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    • 123Raura wrote:
      UGH! The wait for the race between life and death is wracking at me! So, I'll post my hopes for 7B:

      1. A backstory explains how and why Zelena and Robin ended up in NEF - honestly, their move to NEF would straighten out the holes in time.

      2. A Gothel backstory - it would be amazing to see her origins, and why she is the way she is. 

      3. Anastasia breaks the curse by waking Lucy up and then saving Henry.

      4. I know this is impossible, but I hope that Drizella and Rapunzel put their woes behind and join forces with Zelena, Regina. 

      5. We get to see a grown-up Prince Neal

      6. We get to meet Emma and Killian's unborn child. 

      I definitely want an explanation as to how Zelena got to the NEF as well.

      I'd honestly be shocked if they didn't introduce us to Baby Jones. I feel like most fans have been waiting to find out more about the baby ever since Emma announced she was pregnant.

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    • Out of the ten episodes, this one while not the best, would rank at least in the top half but just by a sliver. Obviously, Beauty, One Little Tear, Wake-up Call would be my top three and everything else trails a little behind the other. I also think this episode could've benefited from an extra episode, a better previous episode (*coughs* 7X03), or both. It definitely felt rushed and at this point the writers know how annoyed viewers get that they even have to break the fourth wall with lines like "I'm not here to discuss timelines."

      On the plus side, at least things happened. We found out how the curse was cast, how Alice retained her memories-ish, why the curse breaking must be done cautiously, why Ana is really important, and of course the S6 finale teaser content. Unfortunately, we still have another month to figure out the rest of the rushed plotlines and how we got all the way to these places.

      Character Notes:

      The Amazing: Still loving Alice, Drizella (Adelaide Kane never fails to disappoint and has easily trumped a certain protagonist), Regina (As much as I hate that she had to cast the curse again, one could call it bittersweet irony), Zelena (despite doing what she did to Robin Hood back in S4, she is always a breath of fresh air), and last but not least... Rumple.

      The Intriguing:

      Henry, Gothel (she certainly brings a certain calm flair we haven't seen since Ingrid), Tremaine (her little and random appearances in this episode really stuck out to me), Anastasia, and Robin.

      The Meh:

      Jack, Sabine/Tiana, Witches with no personality just hoods and shrieks, Lucy, Hook (While he did stuff this episode, he didn't hold my attention), and Tiger Lily (I didn't mind her before, but she kind of fell flat in this episode).

      The Nope:

      Cinderella/Jacinda: Ten episodes in... and I'm still not feeling her. Am I the only one? I know she's really not popular, but at the same time I feel she should be far more important. There's just so much not going on for her that it's just nope. The love between her and Henry? Nope. The character on her own? Nope. Originality and reality? Double nope. I don't know. I try to get invested and end up falling asleep. I also try hard not to compare her to S1 Snow but even then, Snow wins by a landslide.

      (Rant to be continued in next post)

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    • Cinderella:

      When you look at S1 Snow, she was the perfect combo of badass princess who was sweet, likable, and connectable. For example, while she would take a rock to someone's face, she also was doing what she had to do to escape the Evil Queen and live out a normal life. That's all she wanted. She and Charming both had this undeniable connection too which got fans to invest in them. The pacing was natural, the conversations clicked, they came to life. With Cinderella, we're given a clichéd tale with a few twists but otherwise, it doesn't pop. While we're given the badass, the exhausted strong woman trope, etc. we're barely given the other side which shows a genuine sweetness and an outer personality. Her and Henry barely get much time to connect and when they do, it feels eerily similar to Snowing who I used to love myself.

      It also doesn't help when we're supposed to root for her when there's Drizella and Tremaine who are both more fleshed out, complicated, and realistic. I can actually see why people ship Henry and Ivy more than him and Jacinda because while it would be a toxic relationship based off what she's done to him, there's realism in their connection. A sense of danger. Once again, not the greatest but there's at least something. Nothing against vanilla relationships, though that makes it a lot harder to get invested.

      Going forward, maybe the writers will take in consideration of the fans' feedback. Now, they wouldn't be able to take it in during the first half's process but going into the second, maybe they will turn Cinderella around. Make her someone people care for. As someone who does write a lot in his free time, I know not everyone can be great. (I got a few of those in my arsenal) There's also room for improvement. Hopefully, we can see that in the second half.

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    • I want to cry.

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    • Well, it's a little cool nod...

      Ana's hospital room is 916, which is 1 more for both 8 and 15, or 815. Just a neat little thing.

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    • A Spy in the Mirror
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