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  • Go forth and tell us what you think. Feel free to rate the episode too, if you wish!

    Rules

    1. Spoilers (Next week's promo, Future episode interviews, etc) go on the spoiler threads, not here.

    2. Rants are best placed on the Rant and Rave board. It's okay to be critical, confused, and questioning, but bashing goes there.

    Have fun discussing! 

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    • DID THEY USE THE WRONG TITLECARD IN THIS EPISODE???


      Ok, this thing was on fire tonight

      This was actually a Drizella-centric

      Regina, what did you do????!!!  

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    • So what happens when the curse is broken? Does Henry die?

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    • Drizella has magic! Drizella cast the curse! Drizella did something so if the curse is broken something else terrible happens! Adelaide is killing the role! Lana is good as always!

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    • Drizella is... Wow. She's easily the best (well, worst) villain we've had yet. Hopefully, they won't screw it up again.

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    • So I'm assuming Henry dies if the curse is broken.

      I notced Roni told him not to slouch- only the Evil Queen says that....

      Now that we know Drizzella is evil I am completely convinced that she is good, since she's the mirror of season 1 Regina.

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    • great episode. Regnia is back. yay. i think Drizella/Ivy cast the dark curse and that's how everyone is in Seattle. Drizella/Ivy is the true villain of season 7. 

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    • DatNuttyKid wrote:
      Drizella is... Wow. She's easily the best (well, worst) villain we've had yet. Hopefully, they won't screw it up again.

      One link per letter. Tricky. XD

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    • A few small side notes:

      The title card they used was odd. I know we saw the remains of what is most certainly Rapunzel's Tower, but still odd, since it wasn't featured looking like that in the episode.

      Cute Lady and the Tramp reference in HH.

      So now Prince Noname and his younger brother, Prince Gregor, are both dead. Is the Corrupt King going to show up at some point to do anything, or is he just going to let all his heirs get killed, and figures Tremaine will take care of it?

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:

      Cute Lady and the Tramp reference in HH.

      I didn't catch that, what was the reference? 

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    • Drizella is business

      Girl is not fooling around

      My favorite villain since the Snow Queen

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    • ClaudiaOUAT wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:

      Cute Lady and the Tramp reference in HH.

      I didn't catch that, what was the reference? 

      "I wasn't sure with the dogs in the alley, but Bella Notte does have great pizza" - Henry to Regina.

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    • Just for the record, I did love the rest of this episode, too, but I'm still pretty stuck on Ivyzella. That was a fantastic experience.

      I'm not sure if I want her to be redeemed, or go out in a blaze of glory. Hmmmm...

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    • DatNuttyKid wrote:
      Just for the record, I did love the rest of this episode, too, but I'm still pretty stuck on Ivyzella. That was a fantastic experience.

      I'm not sure if I want her to be redeemed, or go out in a blaze of glory. Hmmmm...

      Considering she is only a guest star, I'm guessing blaze of glory. Too bad though, she is a great character.

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    • Ooo DRIZELLA IS THE BUSINESS!! I love her so much, Adelaide had me on the edge of my seat tonight! I love a good hero, but a Great villain I just cant explain it, and she is actually turning out to be the best one yet.

      Regina girl how did you not see that coming, you actually said that she was just like you at that age! I love you girl but dang.

      What's the deal with Rumple, does he want the curse to stay unbroken? I can't really tell at this point he seems like he's just going through the motions. Did he make some sort of deal with Drizella, knowing him its likely but why. Very interesting to me.

      I can't wait to see what this twist on the curse is and why Regina has to help Drizella keep it unbroken!!

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      DatNuttyKid wrote:
      Just for the record, I did love the rest of this episode, too, but I'm still pretty stuck on Ivyzella. That was a fantastic experience.

      I'm not sure if I want her to be redeemed, or go out in a blaze of glory. Hmmmm...

      Considering she is only a guest star, I'm guessing blaze of glory. Too bad though, she is a great character.

      Well, it's happened before. Although since they chose to promote someone mid-season, I feel like Drizella would have gotten it over Tiana if they had long-term plans for her.

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    • So Drizella is the main villain. I wonder what that says about Lady Tremaine. Could she end up being good?

      I believe Henry's pure heart is the only thing that can break the curse and knowing Henry, he will willingly sacrifice himself if he regains his memmories. I like how characters are regaining their memmories one by one, as opposed to past curses.

      Even before she turned evil, how did Drizella have a pure heart? She did everything her mother said. Her heart should not have been strong enough to cure Anastasia.

      Is Eloise Gardner definitely Hook's daughter? If so, she can't be Alice. There is still a possibility of it being Rapunzel. We'll probably find out next week.

      Why did Lucy not recognize Regina before this episode? I thought she had her memmories. Did she never meet Regina back in the Enchanted Forrest?

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    • Begfhn wrote:
      So Drizella is the main villain. I wonder what that says about Lady Tremaine. Could she end up being good?

      I believe Henry's pure heart is the only thing that can break the curse and knowing Henry, he will willingly sacrifice himself if he regains his memmories. I like how characters are regaining their memmories one by one, as opposed to past curses.

      Even before she turned evil, how did Drizella have a pure heart? She did everything her mother said. Her heart should not have been strong enough to cure Anastasia.

      Is Eloise Gardner definitely Hook's daughter? If so, she can't be Alice. There is still a possibility of it being Rapunzel. We'll probably find out next week.

      Why did Lucy not recognize Regina before this episode? I thought she had her memmories. Did she never meet Regina back in the Enchanted Forrest?

      Drizzella was pressured into following her mother but she was still good. And Lucy is cursed she doesn't have her memories.

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    • I’m thinking that Drizella used Anastasia’s heart to cast the curse. I also have a feeling that Lady Tremaine doesn’t have all her memories, which will give her hope that she can resurrect Anastasia, only for Drizella to yank that hope away by revealing that she used Anastasia’s heart for the curse.

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    • MyPretties wrote:
      I’m thinking that Drizella used Anastasia’s heart to cast the curse. I also have a feeling that Lady Tremaine doesn’t have all her memories, which will give her hope that she can resurrect Anastasia, only for Drizella to yank that hope away by revealing that she used Anastasia’s heart for the curse.

      I agree with Tremaine's partial memories. But Drizzle probably doesn't love Anastasia enough to cast the curse with her heart. Although I don't know who she could use. Tremaine seems like the only option but obviously she's alive.

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    • ...Okay, call me crazy. But was the end scene between Regina and Henry ...flipped? (aka the flashback one) Like their faces look reversed and it was made even more obvious by the fact Regina's cape thing was on her left side, and then suddenly it was on her right. I don't know, maybe I'm seeing things. xD

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    • I at first thought Drizella use Prince Gregor's heart to cast the curse. He was stab right in the heart. And I think they at least love each other somewhat; with Gregor willing to accompany her to confront Tremaine.

      But I thought afterward and maybe the thing that Regina did involve her or Henry's hearts. That's why Regina felt bind to help Ivy continue the curse. Pure speculation here, but what if perhaps Drizella force Regina to steal Henry's heart and cast the curse. If the heart of the person you love is use to cast the curse, surely even more powerful if the person you love happen to have the heart of the truest believer. Regina had to use to heart of truest believer (that and the curse explain why Henry's lack of faith now). Henry only live because Regina share her heart with him. Regina think she's destroy her son by destroying his pure heart and gave him a partially blacken heart. But I bet in the end, when they defeat Ivy, we will see Henry fine with it.

      Speaking of Gregor, pretty cool of them to cast the little brother of the actress who played Elsa.

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    • Wasn't it established in Season 5 finale that magic does exist within the Land Without Magic? No I know it was. Hopefully Regina didn't forget this and more importantly hopefully the writers didn't forget it.


      I liked the Drizzel and Regina scenes. The rest were on par with the rest of the season which means they were subpar. The reveal was decent but it was weird that Drizzel learned all that magic after a couple of hours of training. Probably should have stretched it our a bit more. Overall give it like a 6/10. A pretty decent episode. 

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    • Seasrmar wrote:

      But I thought afterward and maybe the thing that Regina did involve her or Henry's hearts. That's why Regina felt bind to help Ivy continue the curse. Pure speculation here, but what if perhaps Drizella force Regina to steal Henry's heart and cast the curse. If the heart of the person you love is use to cast the curse, surely even more powerful if the person you love happen to have the heart of the truest believer. Regina had to use to heart of truest believer (that and the curse explain why Henry's lack of faith now). Henry only live because Regina share her heart with him. Regina think she's destroy her son by destroying his pure heart and gave him a partially blacken heart. But I bet in the end, when they defeat Ivy, we will see Henry fine with it.

      Not a bad theory. I could see them going with this. Giving Henry a partially darkened heart could also provide set-up for future seasons focusing on this cast if they get any.

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    • Oh and would Regina training Drizella to levitate rocks count as a Star Wars reference? It reminds of Yoda training Luke to levitate rocks on Dagabah in Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back.

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    • Drizella is the star newbie. And Adelaide isn't even credited as a main, what a shame. 

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    • Another big question, why did Tremaine love Ana more than Drizzella?

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    • ClaudiaOUAT wrote:
      Another big question, why did Tremaine love Ana more than Drizzella?

      Why do any parents have favorite children? XD

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    • ClaudiaOUAT wrote:
      Another big question, why did Tremaine love Ana more than Drizzella?

      Maybe they were equal once, but I think once she lost Anastasia, that daughter was put on a pedestal. Drizella became her only daughter, so that put a lot of pressure on her and it was probably easy for Tremaine to idealize Anastasia in comparison. Though we'll probably see something about what they were all like pre-Anastasia's death in an upcoming episode.

      Drizella may be the villain now but the backstory she's been given is pretty easy to sympathize with. xD 

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    • Now we know that either Jacinda or Henry is the new savior for this curse (it has to be Henry, of course), since only their TLK can break it. This like Storybrooke, only Emma could break the curse


      Also, now that Regina is awake, the show will have to deal with why Regina won't call Emma and Hook to come help Henry. Especially if his life is in danger

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    • I really enjoyed this episode, except for one scene, but I'll get to that later.  Drizella is super evil and woke up Regina. I loved how the show revealed her evilness. She killed Prince Gregor in order to turn her heart dark to prevent Lady Tremaine from using it to wake Anastasia. When she killed Gregor, I thought she looked horrified for a second, but then she smiled an evil little smile. And it was pretty much revealed that she was the one who cast the curse. And this time around, breaking the curse has consequences. Consequences that involve Henry (most likely) that Regina has something to do with. Based on Regina’s reaction, I think it might mean Henry dies or something equally bad.  To quote Zelena “That is next level darkness!” I think that after the events of this episode’s flashback, Drizella meets the Witch who continues her magic training. 

      Henriella was adorable in this episode. I loved that Henry asked her out using his 80s mixtape and their date consisted of fixing up the food truck. Also, them fighting the ruffians with a torque wrench and a Tron lunchbox (of course Henry has a Tron lunchbox, A&E wrote the script for Tron: Legacy) was the best. 

      I loved that Rogers recruited Tilly to find the missing girl/his daughter. And that the show gave more clues to the Alice/Tilly is his daughter theory. She had a black rook in her hand and gave it to him. That was two chess-related clues we’ve gotten. There is no way those were red herrings. 

      After watching episode 4, I wasn’t sure that Rumple was awake, but he most certainly is. He made a deal, the Dark One can not resist a deal. Also, he seemed less broken up about Belle’s death than I thought he would be.  

      The scene in which Henry said that Regina was the first person to love him made me really angry. The show made it very clear that Emma was the first one to love him and ignoring that was disrespectful to both Emma and the Swan Beliver relationship which was the central relationship in the show. Henry’s cursed memories are that he was born in prison and that he grew up in the system. That connection he has with Emma was almost enough to reduce my anger at the “Regina was the first person to love Henry” scene, key word being almost. But thank you show for writing that, it was needed. 

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    • Eskaver
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      12:00, November 11, 2017
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      11:23, November 11, 2017
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    • Drizella is much more interesting as a villain than Lady Tremaine. I'm looking forward to more of her backstory. Drizella learning so much magic in a few magic sessions seems rushed, specially when Regina took months to master some spells. Although one could argue that her anger accelerated the process of learning. I guess people can stop comparing Mayor Mills to Victoria because they are clearly not trying to make parallels between the two of them now that we know that is Drizella pulling the strings. I'm still unsure that Drizella has any leverage at all over the witch once she is released. I think there's a reason she is in chains, probably because she is dangerous. Which makes me wonder what is her point on all of this. How does she benefits from the curse and helping Drizella? I hope we get a backstory episode for her. Even though I don't dislike Tiana, I didn't miss her in this episode. I'm glad we got to see some Regina and Rumple moments. Cinderella is just useless and she only exists to be Henrys love interest. The show could easily continue without her. So far season 7 hasn't been awful, but I haven't fell in love immediatly as I did in season 1. However, there are a few likeable plot points and storylines. Also, I'm kinda not feeling the soundtracks this season? Is it still Mark Isham composing them?

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    • Wonderful episode.

      See the villain thing worked out. People I think might be starting to understand why Tremaine is the way she is. 

      Tremaine is suppose to be unlikable. She's the Bully archetype. Drizella is the Henchman/Sympathetic Villain. The Witch is the Mastermind. At least, that's how it appears so far.

      Still confused on the "Born with magic" stuff they do. Tremaine doesn't appear to have any magic (but that could be due to her losing it as she mentioned that magic can be taken). Plus, we saw some nice moments with Drizella in pure villainy and we had multiple Villain on Villain clashes.

      Magical Drizzy against the human Tremaine and Drizella against the Witch. I think she also woke her mother up and had the Witch put in chains. While Victoria travels in one direction very hard, Ivy is covering all angles, but I think she'll overplay herself and end out in a blaze of glory.

      Oh and the CGI budget definitely got cut, but I guess they kept the money on the poofs and plants, but not the fireballs. XD

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    • lol, I actually was impressed with the CGI this episode. Drizella is definitely coming into her own. I thought the scene with Henry and Jacinda was cute (and kinda dorky) - I thought they had good chemistry, even if the scene was short. I personally really like Tremaine and want more of her. Also why is present-day Rumple acting shady? He seems good in flashbacks, but the whole 'owe a deal' thing with Roni, seems like he's plotting.

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    • Lola987 wrote:
      I thought the scene with Henry and Jacinda was cute (and kinda dorky) - I thought they had good chemistry, even if the scene was short.

      THIS

      This scene was sooooo cute and so embarrassing at the same time xD I like it a lot!

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    • Speaking of something totally unrelated to the topic at hand, it's kinda funny that we keep killing off these unnamed princes like flies on a wall. Also, Regina must have been a terrible student. Drizella learned basic mirror magic, basic plant magic, telekinesis, and teleportation in one day. Zelena did something pretty similar in regards to length of time. 

      I think the characters are really coming in strong. Jace and Henry was cool. Like Henry comes off as sooo likable. Ya can't hate the guy for being awkward. Andrew is doing a great job. Everybody else is too! If I didn't want it before, I definitely could/would like to see this get another season.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      Speaking of something totally unrelated to the topic at hand, it's kinda funny that we keep killing off these unnamed princes like flies on a wall. Also, Regina must have been a terrible student. Drizella learned basic mirror magic, basic plant magic, telekinesis, and teleportation in one day. Zelena did something pretty similar in regards to length of time.

      I think its because Regina didn't hold magic naturally. Both Drizella and Zelena were fast learners, and both were mentioned to have been born with magic, whereas Regina only had it, once she began learning it.

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    • Lola987 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Speaking of something totally unrelated to the topic at hand, it's kinda funny that we keep killing off these unnamed princes like flies on a wall. Also, Regina must have been a terrible student. Drizella learned basic mirror magic, basic plant magic, telekinesis, and teleportation in one day. Zelena did something pretty similar in regards to length of time.
      I think its because Regina didn't hold magic naturally. Both Drizella and Zelena were fast learners, and both were mentioned to have been born with magic, whereas Regina only had it, once she began learning it.

      I know. (Well, technically, Regina was born with magic as the show says) It's just hilarious that Regina had to slowburn through everything, but I think part of that was on her willingness and Rumple as Regina did skip out on some lessons and Rumple had his own machinations.

      And another fun thought is that Lady Tremaine was practicing heart ripping (guess she lost her magic years ago) on her dead daughter's corpse. I guess it wouldn't hurt!

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    • Love this episode. I though Beauty was going to be the best of the season, but now I'm seriously torn and we're still on episode 6!

      Lana and Adelaide shined, on both flashbacks and present day.

      Flashbacks were so intense. Drizella is seriously one of the best villain ever, and I loved seeing how her path to darkness started. Plus, Regina and Henry's final scene was wonderful, and it shows how Regina's true love will always be her son.

      Present day was great as well. I'm still intrigued by the Witch and how powerful she could be. I loved almost every scene, but Roni/Weaver, Roni/Ivy and the final Regina/Henry scene were truly amazing. Perfect writing and acting.

      Grade is 9.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      Speaking of something totally unrelated to the topic at hand, it's kinda funny that we keep killing off these unnamed princes like flies on a wall. Also, Regina must have been a terrible student. Drizella learned basic mirror magic, basic plant magic, telekinesis, and teleportation in one day. Zelena did something pretty similar in regards to length of time. 

      I think the characters are really coming in strong. Jace and Henry was cool. Like Henry comes off as sooo likable. Ya can't hate the guy for being awkward. Andrew is doing a great job. Everybody else is too! If I didn't want it before, I definitely could/would like to see this get another season.

      Drizella never used Mirror Magic. Regina used Mirror Magic to show Drizella what her mother was doing. Also Drizella wasn't  natural as she had a hard time levitating a rock. However given the crappy writing this season has given as time is concerned as usual time isn't a factor. One doesn't go from struggling to levitate a rock to being ble to control plant magic. 

      @Lola987

      It was established that Regina was born with Magic the first time she met Rumple. 

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    • Whether Drizella/Ivy will be a villian turn good by the end of her story arc depends on her main backstory. I've mentioned this in another thread, something I notice that a villian backstory will determine whether they will turn good at the end. If their backstory makes us sympathetic with them, then they will. Examples: Ingrid accidently froze Helga after Duke Weasleton used Helga as a human shield-Ingrid became good; Malcolm abandoned Rumple so he could be young and live in Neverland-Malcolm stay evil. So was last night her main backstory we should be focus on?   

      I like Henry and Roni scene at the end, but it's a little weird. Sure for Roni, now remember she's Regina, so is a mom and her son. But for Henry who has no idea that's his mom. Holding her hands may be interpreted wrong. Especially with jealous Jacinda over little things such as Instagram photos. We know it show their mother-son relationship, but think if someone doesn't know.

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    • I know Regina is a good guy now but come on, taking out Drizella would be for the good of basically the ENTIRE realm.  To let her leave her mother's castle knowing what she was about to do is just stupid in my opinion but it doesn't make for good TV.  

      I also wonder why they put so much emphasis on that a HERO cannot break this new Dark Curse.  Maybe I'm reading too much into it but if a hero can't break it, maybe a villain (Rumple, Evil Queen-Regina) can...  

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    • Also think it's weird that Regina wouldn't try to contact Emma.  Yes I know she isn't on the show anymore but the character still exists.  You would think that as soon as she woke up she would call Henry's other mother and tell her the situation that they're all in.  They could explain it as the curse would prevent Emma and the others from coming to them or something.  

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    • D.Prince wrote:
       Also, I'm kinda not feeling the soundtracks this season? Is it still Mark Isham composing them?

      As far as I'm aware, Mark is still the composer this season.

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    • Here's my confusion about Lucy. The curse was supposedly only cast a few days before she found Henry. During that time, she read all of Henry's books, which  she for some reason believed. In Henry's case, he was raised for 10 years by an incompetent mother in a town where nobody else aged and every day was exactly the same. None of this seems to be true for Lucy in Hyperion Heights.

      Drizella has no reason to ever turn good. Unlike Regina, she has nobody alive that she loves.

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    • I loved this episode! How did Season 7 get so good in a short period of time? The past three episodes were great.

      I’m intrigued by the plots they are setting up here. I want to see how Weaver and Roni’s deal is going to play out later in the season. The plotline with Rogers and Eloise Gardener didn’t grab me at first, but it’s fun to have a little mystery subplot so I’m interested.

      Adelaide Kane and Lana Parilla’s acting on this episode was phenomenal. They have a great dynamic, and I like how Regina unintentionally made Drizella villanous because that was what she was trying to hard not to do by teaching her magic in the first place. I like how Regina sees herself in Drizella.

      I wonder what the effects of breaking the curse are? Also, I don’t think we should assume that Drizella casted the curse because although she said she would in the flashbacks and is hinted in present day, it still could be a different person altogether.

      The stunts this season have been great, the first scene with Cinderella and Henry as well as the fight in the ball were very well done. As for the CGI, less is more, and that seemed to work in this episode.

      Overall, I’d give it a 9/10. My second favorite episode this season:

      1. Beauty 2. Wake Up Call 3. Greenbacks 4. A Pirate’s Life 5. Garden of Forking Paths 6. Hyperion Heights

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    • I wonder if everything Drizella told Regina was a lie.  LIke others said she seemed to pick up on the magic abnormally fast.  Regina didn't have a chance to show her how to transport or how to manipulate the plant to kill the prince but next thing we know Drizella is an expert magic user.  It all seems strange and unlikely.  I think Drizelle could already use magic and wanted Regina to feel sorry for her so she would confide in her more about the Dark Curse.  I think Drizella somehow knew about Regina's past and manipulated it all.  

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    • After rewatching, I can't tell if The Witch is the one pulling all the strings or if Drizella is really the BB. Mainly because it took her so long to actually cast the curse. She obviously was in need of help and found the witch but what did the witch have that she needed. I'm so excited to see this play out, lots of twists!

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    • Emillian Swanones wrote:

      The scene in which Henry said that Regina was the first person to love him made me really angry. The show made it very clear that Emma was the first one to love him and ignoring that was disrespectful to both Emma and the Swan Beliver relationship which was the central relationship in the show. Henry’s cursed memories are that he was born in prison and that he grew up in the system. That connection he has with Emma was almost enough to reduce my anger at the “Regina was the first person to love Henry” scene, key word being almost. But thank you show for writing that, it was needed. 

      I like Emma as much as the next guy, but you have to look at it from Henry's point of view: he was given up. Regardless of Emma's intentions and what happened later, this is not how you make a child feel loved, and even Emma treated that as a mistake later in the series (particularly once she had memories of not giving him up). Regina was the first person to show him love and to make him feel loved, even if he didn't realize it at first.

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    • DatNuttyKid wrote:
      Emillian Swanones wrote:

      The scene in which Henry said that Regina was the first person to love him made me really angry. The show made it very clear that Emma was the first one to love him and ignoring that was disrespectful to both Emma and the Swan Beliver relationship which was the central relationship in the show. Henry’s cursed memories are that he was born in prison and that he grew up in the system. That connection he has with Emma was almost enough to reduce my anger at the “Regina was the first person to love Henry” scene, key word being almost. But thank you show for writing that, it was needed. 

      I like Emma as much as the next guy, but you have to look at it from Henry's point of view: he was given up. Regardless of Emma's intentions and what happened later, this is not how you make a child feel loved, and even Emma treated that as a mistake later in the series (particularly once she had memories of not giving him up). Regina was the first person to show him love and to make him feel loved, even if he didn't realize it at first.

      Ok so Ya I was Roght Drizella indeed cast the Dark Curse And Brought everyone to Hyperion Hights secound When Regina opened her Big mouth to tell Drizzella that hero’s always break curses she added some sort of twist to the Dark Curse that I’d it is broken something Bad would happen to those they love that were affected by the Dark Curse and Regina can’t allow anything to happen to Henry -A.D.

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    • DatNuttyKid wrote:

      Emillian Swanones wrote:

      The scene in which Henry said that Regina was the first person to love him made me really angry. The show made it very clear that Emma was the first one to love him and ignoring that was disrespectful to both Emma and the Swan Beliver relationship which was the central relationship in the show. Henry’s cursed memories are that he was born in prison and that he grew up in the system. That connection he has with Emma was almost enough to reduce my anger at the “Regina was the first person to love Henry” scene, key word being almost. But thank you show for writing that, it was needed. 

      I like Emma as much as the next guy, but you have to look at it from Henry's point of view: he was given up. Regardless of Emma's intentions and what happened later, this is not how you make a child feel loved, and even Emma treated that as a mistake later in the series (particularly once she had memories of not giving him up). Regina was the first person to show him love and to make him feel loved, even if he didn't realize it at first.

      I agree, even though he didn’t know it at the time, Regina was the first person who had loved him. I actually thought that scene between them was really sweet.

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    • Who else thinks Rumple will die by choosing to sacrifice himself and take Henry's place, by giving up his pure heart for Anastasia, when Drizella thought only Henry could?

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    • Dillon7272 wrote:
      Who else thinks Rumple will die by choosing to sacrifice himself and take Henry's place, by giving up his pure heart for Anastasia, when Drizella thought only Henry could?

      I don't think Rumple has a pure heart. Regina's heart is supposedly still dark even though she's been nice for a while.

      Anyway, Tremaine said in 703 that she could revive Anastasia by causing Lucy to stop believing, so maybe she's found a method that doesn't require stealing hearts.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I thought Belle said last episode he has a pure heart? Plus there was the whole finale of Season 4.

      Tremaine doesn't know the whole story, that she didn't cast the curse.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • As for this episode, Henry and Jacinda are still falling in love

      When the curse was cast, Lucy was like 10 y.o.

      So, it took Drizella 10 YEARS to cast the curse???

      Are we sure Lucy is their biological daughter???

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • DatNuttyKid wrote:
      Emillian Swanones wrote:

      The scene in which Henry said that Regina was the first person to love him made me really angry. The show made it very clear that Emma was the first one to love him and ignoring that was disrespectful to both Emma and the Swan Beliver relationship which was the central relationship in the show. Henry’s cursed memories are that he was born in prison and that he grew up in the system. That connection he has with Emma was almost enough to reduce my anger at the “Regina was the first person to love Henry” scene, key word being almost. But thank you show for writing that, it was needed. 

      I like Emma as much as the next guy, but you have to look at it from Henry's point of view: he was given up. Regardless of Emma's intentions and what happened later, this is not how you make a child feel loved, and even Emma treated that as a mistake later in the series (particularly once she had memories of not giving him up). Regina was the first person to show him love and to make him feel loved, even if he didn't realize it at first.

      I have to disagree. The reason Emma gave Henry up was because she loved him enough to give him a chance at a better life. Regina is the first person who Henry remembers having loved him, but Emma was the first person to show him love.  

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Emillian Swanones wrote:
      DatNuttyKid wrote:
      Emillian Swanones wrote:

      The scene in which Henry said that Regina was the first person to love him made me really angry. The show made it very clear that Emma was the first one to love him and ignoring that was disrespectful to both Emma and the Swan Beliver relationship which was the central relationship in the show. Henry’s cursed memories are that he was born in prison and that he grew up in the system. That connection he has with Emma was almost enough to reduce my anger at the “Regina was the first person to love Henry” scene, key word being almost. But thank you show for writing that, it was needed. 

      I like Emma as much as the next guy, but you have to look at it from Henry's point of view: he was given up. Regardless of Emma's intentions and what happened later, this is not how you make a child feel loved, and even Emma treated that as a mistake later in the series (particularly once she had memories of not giving him up). Regina was the first person to show him love and to make him feel loved, even if he didn't realize it at first.
      I have to disagree. The reason Emma gave Henry up was because she loved him enough to give him a chance at a better life. Regina is the first person who Henry remembers having loved him, but Emma was the first person to show him love.  

      Technically, Rumplestiltskin was the first person to love Henry because he foresaw all of this. Why are we erasing Rumple's involvement in Henry's life?

      Seriously, this is just nitpicking.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • DatNuttyKid wrote:
      Emillian Swanones wrote:
      DatNuttyKid wrote:
      Emillian Swanones wrote:

      The scene in which Henry said that Regina was the first person to love him made me really angry. The show made it very clear that Emma was the first one to love him and ignoring that was disrespectful to both Emma and the Swan Beliver relationship which was the central relationship in the show. Henry’s cursed memories are that he was born in prison and that he grew up in the system. That connection he has with Emma was almost enough to reduce my anger at the “Regina was the first person to love Henry” scene, key word being almost. But thank you show for writing that, it was needed. 

      I like Emma as much as the next guy, but you have to look at it from Henry's point of view: he was given up. Regardless of Emma's intentions and what happened later, this is not how you make a child feel loved, and even Emma treated that as a mistake later in the series (particularly once she had memories of not giving him up). Regina was the first person to show him love and to make him feel loved, even if he didn't realize it at first.
      I have to disagree. The reason Emma gave Henry up was because she loved him enough to give him a chance at a better life. Regina is the first person who Henry remembers having loved him, but Emma was the first person to show him love.  
      Technically, Rumplestiltskin was the first person to love Henry because he foresaw all of this. Why are we erasing Rumple's involvement in Henry's life?

      Seriously, this is just nitpicking.

      I know it's nitpicking and I'm not upset at the line anymore (I was more upset at the line and not the actual scene), I just feel like it would have been better if Henry had said something along the lines of "You were the first person I remember loving me" instead of "You were the first person to love me." I tend to take things more literally than they should be, so when Henry said that, my first thought was that the show was ignoring Emma's impact on Henry's life. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Emillian Swanones wrote:
      DatNuttyKid wrote:
      Emillian Swanones wrote:

      The scene in which Henry said that Regina was the first person to love him made me really angry. The show made it very clear that Emma was the first one to love him and ignoring that was disrespectful to both Emma and the Swan Beliver relationship which was the central relationship in the show. Henry’s cursed memories are that he was born in prison and that he grew up in the system. That connection he has with Emma was almost enough to reduce my anger at the “Regina was the first person to love Henry” scene, key word being almost. But thank you show for writing that, it was needed. 

      I like Emma as much as the next guy, but you have to look at it from Henry's point of view: he was given up. Regardless of Emma's intentions and what happened later, this is not how you make a child feel loved, and even Emma treated that as a mistake later in the series (particularly once she had memories of not giving him up). Regina was the first person to show him love and to make him feel loved, even if he didn't realize it at first.
      I have to disagree. The reason Emma gave Henry up was because she loved him enough to give him a chance at a better life. Regina is the first person who Henry remembers having loved him, but Emma was the first person to show him love.  

      We can't get to decide how the characters feel. If Henry thinks Regina is the first person who loved him, then it's true. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • 8Rob wrote:
      As for this episode, Henry and Jacinda are still falling in love

      When the curse was cast, Lucy was like 10 y.o.

      So, it took Drizella 10 YEARS to cast the curse???

      Are we sure Lucy is their biological daughter???

      Yeah, I'm starting to think Lucy was magically aged up at some point, because we don't even seem to be at her conception yet in the FBs.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CadoDoan wrote:
      Emillian Swanones wrote:
      DatNuttyKid wrote:
      Emillian Swanones wrote:

      The scene in which Henry said that Regina was the first person to love him made me really angry. The show made it very clear that Emma was the first one to love him and ignoring that was disrespectful to both Emma and the Swan Beliver relationship which was the central relationship in the show. Henry’s cursed memories are that he was born in prison and that he grew up in the system. That connection he has with Emma was almost enough to reduce my anger at the “Regina was the first person to love Henry” scene, key word being almost. But thank you show for writing that, it was needed. 

      I like Emma as much as the next guy, but you have to look at it from Henry's point of view: he was given up. Regardless of Emma's intentions and what happened later, this is not how you make a child feel loved, and even Emma treated that as a mistake later in the series (particularly once she had memories of not giving him up). Regina was the first person to show him love and to make him feel loved, even if he didn't realize it at first.
      I have to disagree. The reason Emma gave Henry up was because she loved him enough to give him a chance at a better life. Regina is the first person who Henry remembers having loved him, but Emma was the first person to show him love.  
      We can't get to decide how the characters feel. If Henry thinks Regina is the first person who loved him, then it's true. 

      I'm not deciding how Henry feels, it's how I feel. I like Henry and Regina's relationship, it's just that the pilot made it very clear that Emma gave him up due to her love for him. Also, Henry's known that Regina wasn't the first person to love him since he was ten. However, I don't really think it should matter all that much since there was only a few weeks between the time Henry was born and when Regina adopted him. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CadoDoan wrote:
      Emillian Swanones wrote:
      DatNuttyKid wrote:
      Emillian Swanones wrote:

      The scene in which Henry said that Regina was the first person to love him made me really angry. The show made it very clear that Emma was the first one to love him and ignoring that was disrespectful to both Emma and the Swan Beliver relationship which was the central relationship in the show. Henry’s cursed memories are that he was born in prison and that he grew up in the system. That connection he has with Emma was almost enough to reduce my anger at the “Regina was the first person to love Henry” scene, key word being almost. But thank you show for writing that, it was needed. 

      I like Emma as much as the next guy, but you have to look at it from Henry's point of view: he was given up. Regardless of Emma's intentions and what happened later, this is not how you make a child feel loved, and even Emma treated that as a mistake later in the series (particularly once she had memories of not giving him up). Regina was the first person to show him love and to make him feel loved, even if he didn't realize it at first.
      I have to disagree. The reason Emma gave Henry up was because she loved him enough to give him a chance at a better life. Regina is the first person who Henry remembers having loved him, but Emma was the first person to show him love.  
      We can't get to decide how the characters feel. If Henry thinks Regina is the first person who loved him, then it's true. 

      And he has no idea what Emma's intentions were. Regina raised him, was his only mother for 10 years, and absolutely loved him. He didn't even know who Emma as at that point. Regina was his only famiy.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I'm thinking that Henry was talking from his POV as a child. Emma loved him but I don't think a newborn understand what love is. Regardless of the bad situation, I don't think it's unreasonable for a child to think their parent loves them. We saw with Drizella in the flashback that Tremaine really abuses her nonstop, but she still thought her mother loved her. Good or bad, a child is probably going to think their parent loves them (at first).

      Henry isn't downplaying Emma, just he's talking from his experience. It's not like we talk about how much care someone showed us as a 1 year old given that we probably don't recall anything from that time.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:
      I'm thinking that Henry was talking from his POV as a child. Emma loved him but I don't think a newborn understand what love is. Regardless of the bad situation, I don't think it's unreasonable for a child to think their parent loves them. We saw with Drizella in the flashback that Tremaine really abuses her nonstop, but she still thought her mother loved her. Good or bad, a child is probably going to think their parent loves them (at first).

      Henry isn't downplaying Emma, just he's talking from his experience. It's not like we talk about how much care someone showed us as a 1 year old given that we probably don't recall anything from that time.

      Okay, thinking of the situation from Henry's perspective makes a lot more sense than thinking of it from my own perspective.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      8Rob wrote:
      As for this episode, Henry and Jacinda are still falling in love

      When the curse was cast, Lucy was like 10 y.o.

      So, it took Drizella 10 YEARS to cast the curse???

      Are we sure Lucy is their biological daughter???

      Yeah, I'm starting to think Lucy was magically aged up at some point, because we don't even seem to be at her conception yet in the FBs.

      Or maybe Lucy is adopted. To parallel Regina/Henry. (Since that seems to be main relationship in the show now)

      Other than that, I find no explanation on why they waited 10 years without stopping Drizella.


      By the way, where is the Dark Curse scroll as for now? Because Drizella needs it to cast it

      Is it in Storybrooke? In Regina's vault?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Maybe the NEF scenes in The Final Battle actually takes place after Season 7 and Lucy actually grew up in Hyperion Heights?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • SeanWheeler wrote:
      Maybe the NEF scenes in The Final Battle actually takes place after Season 7 and Lucy actually grew up in Hyperion Heights?

      Not likely with what Adam and Eddy said which pretty much says that was before the curse (and that we'll see how it came to that).

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:

      SeanWheeler wrote:
      Maybe the NEF scenes in The Final Battle actually takes place after Season 7 and Lucy actually grew up in Hyperion Heights?

      Not likely with what Adam and Eddy said which pretty much says that was before the curse (and that we'll see how it came to that).

      You can't always trust the writers. Especially with this week's episode of Arrow. Vigilante's identity was revealed as someone we barely knew even though they said it is someone we knew.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • SeanWheeler wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:

      SeanWheeler wrote:
      Maybe the NEF scenes in The Final Battle actually takes place after Season 7 and Lucy actually grew up in Hyperion Heights?
      Not likely with what Adam and Eddy said which pretty much says that was before the curse (and that we'll see how it came to that).
      You can't always trust the writers. Especially with this week's episode of Arrow. Vigilante's identity was revealed as someone we barely knew even though they said it is someone we knew.

      Different show. I don't trust their math skills, but I think they know what order things happen. It was a pretty big theory before the season and when it was asked they put that theory to rest.

      Nevertheless, 6x22's flashback isn't really related to this episode.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • SeanWheeler wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:

      SeanWheeler wrote:
      Maybe the NEF scenes in The Final Battle actually takes place after Season 7 and Lucy actually grew up in Hyperion Heights?
      Not likely with what Adam and Eddy said which pretty much says that was before the curse (and that we'll see how it came to that).
      You can't always trust the writers. Especially with this week's episode of Arrow. Vigilante's identity was revealed as someone we barely knew even though they said it is someone we knew.

      The character is barely known, but he is still known. But Arrow has nothing to do with OUAT, so I don't see the point in bringing it up. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • You might as well read about Trolling Creators, Lying Creators and Flip-Flop of God to see why you don't always trust the writers.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • SeanWheeler wrote:
      You might as well read about Trolling Creators, Lying Creators and Flip-Flop of God to see why you don't always trust the writers.

      I would suggest not to really discuss this on this thread. Plus, reali life doesn't follow tropes as we all know.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:

      Nevertheless, 6x22's flashback isn't really related to this episode.

      It wasn't a flashback

      It was a flashforward

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • 8Rob wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      Nevertheless, 6x22's flashback isn't really related to this episode.

      It wasn't a flashback

      It was a flashforward

      That's what I meant, lol. (Just used to writing flashback so many times)

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • If it's true that those Enchanted Forest flashforwards took place before the curse, then Lucy is a walking plot hole.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • SeanWheeler wrote:
      If it's true that those Enchanted Forest flashforwards took place before the curse, then Lucy is a walking plot hole.

      It's called a mystery. Just like her expecting for the OUAT Book to appear this episode.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • 8Rob wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      8Rob wrote:
      As for this episode, Henry and Jacinda are still falling in love

      When the curse was cast, Lucy was like 10 y.o.

      So, it took Drizella 10 YEARS to cast the curse???

      Are we sure Lucy is their biological daughter???

      Yeah, I'm starting to think Lucy was magically aged up at some point, because we don't even seem to be at her conception yet in the FBs.

      Or maybe Lucy is adopted. To parallel Regina/Henry. (Since that seems to be main relationship in the show now)

      Other than that, I find no explanation on why they waited 10 years without stopping Drizella.


      By the way, where is the Dark Curse scroll as for now? Because Drizella needs it to cast it

      Is it in Storybrooke? In Regina's vault?

      These are good points. Just because Regina mentioned the Dark Curse once, how was Drizella able to find out all of the ingredients and actually cast it?

      The timeline isn’t adding up. Drizella can’t be that powerful in that short of a time, why couldn’t Rumple and Regina have found a way to stop her within those 10+ years?

      It doesn’t make sense, unless Lucy was aged up. Still, there would be at least another year break considering Henry and Cinderella in the flashbacks aren’t romantically involved yet.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • TheRose123 wrote:

      These are good points. Just because Regina mentioned the Dark Curse once, how was Drizella able to find out all of the ingredients and actually cast it?

      The timeline isn’t adding up. Drizella can’t be that powerful in that short of a time, why couldn’t Rumple and Regina have found a way to stop her within those 10+ years?

      It doesn’t make sense, unless Lucy was aged up. Still, there would be at least another year break considering Henry and Cinderella in the flashbacks aren’t romantically involved yet.

      1. Dark Curse just needs dark fairy dust, really. Tremaine has a bunch (said in 7x03).

      2. Zelena also learned a bunch in the short time Rumple taught her. Guess she was a natural. Plus, just because you know a couple of spells doesn't make you powerful.

      3. Rumple had his own plans, so I don't think he really cared to stop Drizella. Regina was busy with the war. 

      4. The real question is why didn't Regina just stop Tremaine right there? Why are they fighting a resistance led by King X and Lady Tremaine when Lady Tremaine was unguarded and without wand right in front of Regina. Lady Tremaine holds most of the roayl's magical items, so why not solve #Resist?

      5. I'm thinking that Lucy was instantaneously created or something. Or Ella and Henry went/ Lucy went to a faster time flow world. So we don't know if it has been that many years. Otherwise, Lady Tremaine surely could have got another heart for Ana by then.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:

      TheRose123 wrote:

      These are good points. Just because Regina mentioned the Dark Curse once, how was Drizella able to find out all of the ingredients and actually cast it?

      The timeline isn’t adding up. Drizella can’t be that powerful in that short of a time, why couldn’t Rumple and Regina have found a way to stop her within those 10+ years?

      It doesn’t make sense, unless Lucy was aged up. Still, there would be at least another year break considering Henry and Cinderella in the flashbacks aren’t romantically involved yet.

      1. Dark Curse just needs dark fairy dust, really. Tremaine has a bunch (said in 7x03).

      2. Zelena also learned a bunch in the short time Rumple taught her. Guess she was a natural. Plus, just because you know a couple of spells doesn't make you powerful.

      3. Rumple had his own plans, so I don't think he really cared to stop Drizella. Regina was busy with the war. 

      4. The real question is why didn't Regina just stop Tremaine right there? Why are they fighting a resistance led by King X and Lady Tremaine when Lady Tremaine was unguarded and without wand right in front of Regina. Lady Tremaine holds most of the roayl's magical items, so why not solve #Resist?

      5. I'm thinking that Lucy was instantaneously created or something. Or Ella and Henry went/ Lucy went to a faster time flow world. So we don't know if it has been that many years. Otherwise, Lady Tremaine surely could have got another heart for Ana by then.

      I wasn’t questioning how Drizella learned so quickly but how Regina couldn’t be able to stop her within the time period between the flashbacks and present day, but I suppose you answered that.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:
      TheRose123 wrote:

      These are good points. Just because Regina mentioned the Dark Curse once, how was Drizella able to find out all of the ingredients and actually cast it?

      The timeline isn’t adding up. Drizella can’t be that powerful in that short of a time, why couldn’t Rumple and Regina have found a way to stop her within those 10+ years?

      It doesn’t make sense, unless Lucy was aged up. Still, there would be at least another year break considering Henry and Cinderella in the flashbacks aren’t romantically involved yet.

      1. Dark Curse just needs dark fairy dust, really. Tremaine has a bunch (said in 7x03).

      Isn't that the Black Curse instead?

      The curse the Black Fairy used in 6x21/6x22

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • 8Rob wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      TheRose123 wrote:

      These are good points. Just because Regina mentioned the Dark Curse once, how was Drizella able to find out all of the ingredients and actually cast it?

      The timeline isn’t adding up. Drizella can’t be that powerful in that short of a time, why couldn’t Rumple and Regina have found a way to stop her within those 10+ years?

      It doesn’t make sense, unless Lucy was aged up. Still, there would be at least another year break considering Henry and Cinderella in the flashbacks aren’t romantically involved yet.

      1. Dark Curse just needs dark fairy dust, really. Tremaine has a bunch (said in 7x03).
      Isn't that the Black Curse instead?

      The curse the Black Fairy used in 6x21/6x22

      No. There is no Black Curse. The Black Fairy made the Dark Curse and the curse she cast was the Dark Curse perfected.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • 8Rob wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      8Rob wrote:
      As for this episode, Henry and Jacinda are still falling in love

      When the curse was cast, Lucy was like 10 y.o.

      So, it took Drizella 10 YEARS to cast the curse???

      Are we sure Lucy is their biological daughter???

      Yeah, I'm starting to think Lucy was magically aged up at some point, because we don't even seem to be at her conception yet in the FBs.
      Or maybe Lucy is adopted. To parallel Regina/Henry. (Since that seems to be main relationship in the show now)

      Other than that, I find no explanation on why they waited 10 years without stopping Drizella.


      By the way, where is the Dark Curse scroll as for now? Because Drizella needs it to cast it

      Is it in Storybrooke? In Regina's vault?

      I doubt she's adopted. It wouldn't have been important to cast a Latina Cinderella if she didn't need to be biologically the same race as Lucy. Plus, then we will need a bunch of other things explained. Who are Lucy's biological parents, etc.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Rewatched several scenes. I love Tremaine's mask she puts on to look unconcerned. It makes her a tad bit tragic as it looks like its her defense mechanism to act fearless, but also that it makes her appear nonchalantly evil.

      Tremaine runs into a fearful situation---> Digs a deeper hole.

      Drizzy threatens Tremaine. She insults and acts even more condescending towards her.

      Most villains try to ease out or play the hero/villain mind game.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Ok time for a crazy out of left field theory about Lucy origin. 

      I remember when people compared Victoria to Regina of Season 1. Both dominating head of the town female figure who has an intense hatred of the main protagonist, want the kid away from their mother, and want the kid to stop believing the fairy tales were real. Lately people compare Ivy/Drizella to Regina. But what if I add another similarity between Victoria and Season 1 Regina.

      Season 1 Regina may have been antagonistic toward Henry but deep down she still love him. Likewise what if Victoria despite being antagonistic love Lucy. What if Lucy was her cat, Lucifer from the animation. The saying is cats have nine lives. What if Lucifer was given a year of age for every lives and transform into human? And that's how we got Lucy. Crazy theory I know.lol

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:
      Rewatched several scenes. I love Tremaine's mask she puts on to look unconcerned. It makes her a tad bit tragic as it looks like its her defense mechanism to act fearless, but also that it makes her appear nonchalantly evil.

      Tremaine runs into a fearful situation---> Digs a deeper hole.

      Drizzy threatens Tremaine. She insults and acts even more condescending towards her.

      Most villains try to ease out or play the hero/villain mind game.


      Talking about that, is it me or did Tremaine look genuily scared by Drizella during the scene at the manor?

      By some moments, it really looks like she was affraid by Drizella, as she realizes what her daughter became

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Lady Junky wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:
      Rewatched several scenes. I love Tremaine's mask she puts on to look unconcerned. It makes her a tad bit tragic as it looks like its her defense mechanism to act fearless, but also that it makes her appear nonchalantly evil.

      Tremaine runs into a fearful situation---> Digs a deeper hole.

      Drizzy threatens Tremaine. She insults and acts even more condescending towards her.

      Most villains try to ease out or play the hero/villain mind game.


      Talking about that, is it me or did Tremaine look genuily scared by Drizella during the scene at the manor?

      By some moments, it really looks like she was affraid by Drizella, as she realizes what her daughter became

      I think she was truly afraid due to her being especially vulnerable. But she recovered as I think she had some feeling towards Drizella that was completely lost now.

      We have to learn Tremaine’s backstory as I don’t think she really expected Drizella to ever fight back. We also need to see if Tremaine truly remembers everything because that could explain why she has treated Ivy worse in HH than in NEF.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:

      Lady Junky wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:
      Rewatched several scenes. I love Tremaine's mask she puts on to look unconcerned. It makes her a tad bit tragic as it looks like its her defense mechanism to act fearless, but also that it makes her appear nonchalantly evil.

      Tremaine runs into a fearful situation---> Digs a deeper hole.

      Drizzy threatens Tremaine. She insults and acts even more condescending towards her.

      Most villains try to ease out or play the hero/villain mind game.


      Talking about that, is it me or did Tremaine look genuily scared by Drizella during the scene at the manor?

      By some moments, it really looks like she was affraid by Drizella, as she realizes what her daughter became

      I think she was truly afraid due to her being especially vulnerable. But she recovered as I think she had some feeling towards Drizella that was completely lost now.

      We have to learn Tremaine’s backstory as I don’t think she really expected Drizella to ever fight back. We also need to see if Tremaine truly remembers everything because that could explain why she has treated Ivy worse in HH than in NEF.


      And, also why she prefers Ana like that. I mean, at this point, it is not just a "I just prefer this daughter over the other".

      She was ready to sacrifice Drizella, kill her, and get her heart to wake up Ana. If Tremaine is ready to go at these lenghts, then clearly, there is something about why she hates Drizella like that.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Seasrmar wrote:
      Ok time for a crazy out of left field theory about Lucy origin. 

      I remember when people compared Victoria to Regina of Season 1. Both dominating head of the town female figure who has an intense hatred of the main protagonist, want the kid away from their mother, and want the kid to stop believing the fairy tales were real. Lately people compare Ivy/Drizella to Regina. But what if I add another similarity between Victoria and Season 1 Regina.

      Season 1 Regina may have been antagonistic toward Henry but deep down she still love him. Likewise what if Victoria despite being antagonistic love Lucy. What if Lucy was her cat, Lucifer from the animation. The saying is cats have nine lives. What if Lucifer was given a year of age for every lives and transform into human? And that's how we got Lucy. Crazy theory I know.lol

      Having Lucy being an animagus would be one hell of a twist

      Can you imagine Lucy turning into Lucifer only for Jacinda to realize she never had a daugther?She is alone. She has no one to fight for. No reason to go on, to keep fighting. Everything was fake

      They would have to create a new Emmy category only to award that. Like "Best Twist in a TV Show" or something

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • 8Rob wrote:
      Seasrmar wrote:
      Ok time for a crazy out of left field theory about Lucy origin. 

      I remember when people compared Victoria to Regina of Season 1. Both dominating head of the town female figure who has an intense hatred of the main protagonist, want the kid away from their mother, and want the kid to stop believing the fairy tales were real. Lately people compare Ivy/Drizella to Regina. But what if I add another similarity between Victoria and Season 1 Regina.

      Season 1 Regina may have been antagonistic toward Henry but deep down she still love him. Likewise what if Victoria despite being antagonistic love Lucy. What if Lucy was her cat, Lucifer from the animation. The saying is cats have nine lives. What if Lucifer was given a year of age for every lives and transform into human? And that's how we got Lucy. Crazy theory I know.lol

      Having Lucy being an animagus would be one hell of a twist

      Can you imagine Lucy turning into Lucifer only for Jacinda to realize she never had a daugther?She is alone. She has no one to fight for. No reason to go on, to keep fighting. Everything was fake

      They would have to create a new Emmy category only to award that. Like "Best Twist in a TV Show" or something

      Well, here's another twist to that. What if Tremaine willingly, abeit begrudgingly gave up Lucifer so the cat can be Cinderella and Henry's daughter and in the process break the curse.

      This will parallel Season 1 with twists/differences. Snow willingly giving up Emma so the curse can be broken.  This time not quite a daughter be giving up but Tremaine does love her cat giving the cat up. Emma was the main protagonist who gave up Henry who was adopted by the antagonistic Regina. This time, again not quite a son be giving up, but something love by the antagonistic Tremaine so the main protagonist Henry can "adopt." So the similarities in that something given up so the Curse could be broken and adoption play a key role. The twists the relationship between the person giving up and the things they gave up and who gave up and who adopt.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Ok, Seasrmar, please start a new thread for this theory! This needs to be discussed ASAP!

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • The question is, who's heart did Drizella use? In addition, Regina, Emma, and Rumple learned how to use magic in the land without magic back in season 5 when they went to NY. Why not have them teleport to storybrooke, get the help of everyone there and some of their magical supplies, and take down Drizella? That would be far easier than sitting there and doing nothing.

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    • Hydrasaur wrote:
      The question is, who's heart did Drizella use? In addition, Regina, Emma, and Rumple learned how to use magic in the land without magic back in season 5 when they went to NY. Why not have them teleport to storybrooke, get the help of everyone there and some of their magical supplies, and take down Drizella? That would be far easier than sitting there and doing nothing.

      Remember the only Way to Stop Drizella would be to brake the Dark Curse and if that happens something bad will happen to everyone they love so whoever was cursed if they have loved ones who were also cursed and the Dark Curse is broken something bad will happen to the loved ones that’s how Drizella made her curse unbrakable or Hero Proof thanks A lot for opening your Big mouth Regina had u just let her leave and cast the curse bame she would have never added that twist of it Brakes something bad happened to ur loved ones -A.D.

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    • The scroll of The Dark Curse is gone remember Regina had to destroy it to reverse her curse and send everyone back to the enchanted forest that was also the only way to stop pans curse from taking affect on them -A.D.

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    • But they enacted the Dark Curse again in 3B

      They had to use it there.

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    • 8Rob wrote:
      But they enacted the Dark Curse again in 3B

      They had to use it there.

      The Dark Curse doesn't require the scroll.

      Dark Curse 1: Regina had the scroll, used random ingredients (and a heart) with a touch of True Love

      Dark Curse 1.5: Pan had the scroll, used random ingredients (and a heart)

      Dark Curse 2: No scroll, used a bunch of ingredients (and a heart)

      Dark Curse 3: No scroll, used unknown ingredients (and a heart)

      Dark Curse creation: Had scroll, used bunch of ingredients, no heart was mentioned

      Dark Curse practice: Fiona was said to be using Black/Dark Fairy dust to perfect her spell. No heart was mentioned

      Dark Curse 4: No scroll, Black/Dark Fairy Dust (no heart used)

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    • Then why Regina had a fight with Maleficent in 1x02?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • 8Rob wrote:
      Then why Regina had a fight with Maleficent in 1x02?

      I prefer not to discuss the Dark Curse and its nature on this thread beyond this. But...the scroll could easily have an incantation or recipe. You don't actually use it in the curse.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • 8Rob wrote:
      Ok, Seasrmar, please start a new thread for this theory! This needs to be discussed ASAP!

      I am honor you thought this theory deserve its own thread. But I think in order to prevent multiple threads, if there was a thread that discusses Lucy's origin or why she's 9-10 years old when the curse was cast, it can go there.

      I see we are discussing the Curse's ingredients. It seems like when Fiona both when learning how and actually cast the Curse, she doesn't use a heart. But she did mention wolfsbane. Wolfsbane, also known  Aconite, can poison a person a to death. The main cause death is asphyxiation. Asphyxiation comes from the Greek word that means stopping of the pulse. When the Curse is cast with the heart as an ingredient, the heart is crush and ergo stopping of its pulse. Maybe wolfsbane have similar effects and therefore can be used instead of a heart. 

      Edit: I was in the middle of typing my message when another message was posted saying not discuss the Dark Curse here.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Seasrmar wrote:
      8Rob wrote:
      Ok, Seasrmar, please start a new thread for this theory! This needs to be discussed ASAP!
      I am honor you thought this theory deserve its own thread. But I think in order to prevent multiple threads, if there was a thread that discusses Lucy's origin or why she's 9-10 years old when the curse was cast, it can go there.

      I see we are discussing the Curse's ingredients. It seems like when Fiona both when learning how and actually cast the Curse, she doesn't use a heart. But she did mention wolfsbane. Wolfsbane, also known  Aconite, can poison a person a to death. The main cause death is asphyxiation. Asphyxiation comes from the Greek word that means stopping of the pulse. When the Curse is cast with the heart as an ingredient, the heart is crush and ergo stopping of its pulse. Maybe wolfsbane have similar effects and therefore can be used instead of a heart. 

      It should be discussed on its own thread because it's tangential and will either swallow up this thread or be swallowed up in return. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:
      Seasrmar wrote:
      8Rob wrote:
      Ok, Seasrmar, please start a new thread for this theory! This needs to be discussed ASAP!
      I am honor you thought this theory deserve its own thread. But I think in order to prevent multiple threads, if there was a thread that discusses Lucy's origin or why she's 9-10 years old when the curse was cast, it can go there.

      I see we are discussing the Curse's ingredients. It seems like when Fiona both when learning how and actually cast the Curse, she doesn't use a heart. But she did mention wolfsbane. Wolfsbane, also known  Aconite, can poison a person a to death. The main cause death is asphyxiation. Asphyxiation comes from the Greek word that means stopping of the pulse. When the Curse is cast with the heart as an ingredient, the heart is crush and ergo stopping of its pulse. Maybe wolfsbane have similar effects and therefore can be used instead of a heart. 

      It should be discussed on its own thread because it's tangential and will either swallow up this thread or be swallowed up in return. 


      I agree that it shouldn't be discuss here. But should my theory alone be a thread though? This thread should focus on the episode in general. Details should have its own threads. I just think theories regarding similar detail  should be in the same thread. As I mention above, my theory would fit under a thread that discuss Lucy's origin or why she was 9-10 years old when the curse was cast detail. Other seems to have theories of their own regarding this same topic i.e. she was adopted, or Drizella waited 10 years, etc. I don't mind sharing my theory with other theories in this similar detail.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:

      8Rob wrote:
      Then why Regina had a fight with Maleficent in 1x02?

      I prefer not to discuss the Dark Curse and its nature on this thread beyond this. But...the scroll could easily have an incantation or recipe. You don't actually use it in the curse.

      If it is an incantation, then the sroll is needed to cast the curse. If it is recipe, then Regina didn't need to fight Maleficent for it. Rumple already knew what the ingredients are

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Seasrmar wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Seasrmar wrote:
      8Rob wrote:
      Ok, Seasrmar, please start a new thread for this theory! This needs to be discussed ASAP!
      I am honor you thought this theory deserve its own thread. But I think in order to prevent multiple threads, if there was a thread that discusses Lucy's origin or why she's 9-10 years old when the curse was cast, it can go there.
      I see we are discussing the Curse's ingredients. It seems like when Fiona both when learning how and actually cast the Curse, she doesn't use a heart. But she did mention wolfsbane. Wolfsbane, also known  Aconite, can poison a person a to death. The main cause death is asphyxiation. Asphyxiation comes from the Greek word that means stopping of the pulse. When the Curse is cast with the heart as an ingredient, the heart is crush and ergo stopping of its pulse. Maybe wolfsbane have similar effects and therefore can be used instead of a heart. 
      It should be discussed on its own thread because it's tangential and will either swallow up this thread or be swallowed up in return. 

      I agree that it shouldn't be discuss here. But should my theory alone be a thread though? This thread should focus on the episode in general. Details should have its own threads. I just think theories regarding similar detail  should be in the same thread. As I mention above, my theory would fit under a thread that discuss Lucy's origin or why she was 9-10 years old when the curse was cast detail. Other seems to have theories of their own regarding this same topic i.e. she was adopted, or Drizella waited 10 years, etc. I don't mind sharing my theory with other theories in this similar detail.

      I think Lucy is adopted too given the fact that even though time moves quickly that if she's really the bio daughter of Ella and Henry, they might look older but it seems they appear the same age. Another theory: maybe Ella and Henry jump into a realm where time only moves quickly for children (that would be a shocker and a hell lot to explain XD)

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Also. Interesting theory based on what I've seen: Tilly might be awake again. Only this time, she has herself under control.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Seasrmar wrote:
      8Rob wrote:
      Seasrmar wrote:
      Ok time for a crazy out of left field theory about Lucy origin. 

      I remember when people compared Victoria to Regina of Season 1. Both dominating head of the town female figure who has an intense hatred of the main protagonist, want the kid away from their mother, and want the kid to stop believing the fairy tales were real. Lately people compare Ivy/Drizella to Regina. But what if I add another similarity between Victoria and Season 1 Regina.

      Season 1 Regina may have been antagonistic toward Henry but deep down she still love him. Likewise what if Victoria despite being antagonistic love Lucy. What if Lucy was her cat, Lucifer from the animation. The saying is cats have nine lives. What if Lucifer was given a year of age for every lives and transform into human? And that's how we got Lucy. Crazy theory I know.lol

      Having Lucy being an animagus would be one hell of a twist

      Can you imagine Lucy turning into Lucifer only for Jacinda to realize she never had a daugther?She is alone. She has no one to fight for. No reason to go on, to keep fighting. Everything was fake

      They would have to create a new Emmy category only to award that. Like "Best Twist in a TV Show" or something

      Well, here's another twist to that. What if Tremaine willingly, abeit begrudgingly gave up Lucifer so the cat can be Cinderella and Henry's daughter and in the process break the curse.

      This will parallel Season 1 with twists/differences. Snow willingly giving up Emma so the curse can be broken.  This time not quite a daughter be giving up but Tremaine does love her cat giving the cat up. Emma was the main protagonist who gave up Henry who was adopted by the antagonistic Regina. This time, again not quite a son be giving up, but something love by the antagonistic Tremaine so the main protagonist Henry can "adopt." So the similarities in that something given up so the Curse could be broken and adoption play a key role. The twists the relationship between the person giving up and the things they gave up and who gave up and who adopt.

      Oh My Gosh! I LOVE THAT THEORY!

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Seasrmar wrote:
      Ok time for a crazy out of left field theory about Lucy origin. 

      I remember when people compared Victoria to Regina of Season 1. Both dominating head of the town female figure who has an intense hatred of the main protagonist, want the kid away from their mother, and want the kid to stop believing the fairy tales were real. Lately people compare Ivy/Drizella to Regina. But what if I add another similarity between Victoria and Season 1 Regina.

      Season 1 Regina may have been antagonistic toward Henry but deep down she still love him. Likewise what if Victoria despite being antagonistic love Lucy. What if Lucy was her cat, Lucifer from the animation. The saying is cats have nine lives. What if Lucifer was given a year of age for every lives and transform into human? And that's how we got Lucy. Crazy theory I know.lol

      That is so crazy, it is almost possible. XD

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:

      Seasrmar wrote:
      Ok time for a crazy out of left field theory about Lucy origin. 

      I remember when people compared Victoria to Regina of Season 1. Both dominating head of the town female figure who has an intense hatred of the main protagonist, want the kid away from their mother, and want the kid to stop believing the fairy tales were real. Lately people compare Ivy/Drizella to Regina. But what if I add another similarity between Victoria and Season 1 Regina.

      Season 1 Regina may have been antagonistic toward Henry but deep down she still love him. Likewise what if Victoria despite being antagonistic love Lucy. What if Lucy was her cat, Lucifer from the animation. The saying is cats have nine lives. What if Lucifer was given a year of age for every lives and transform into human? And that's how we got Lucy. Crazy theory I know.lol

      That is so crazy, it is almost possible. XD

      We’ve had stranger plot twists on this show.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • TheRose123 wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:

      Seasrmar wrote:
      Ok time for a crazy out of left field theory about Lucy origin. 

      I remember when people compared Victoria to Regina of Season 1. Both dominating head of the town female figure who has an intense hatred of the main protagonist, want the kid away from their mother, and want the kid to stop believing the fairy tales were real. Lately people compare Ivy/Drizella to Regina. But what if I add another similarity between Victoria and Season 1 Regina.

      Season 1 Regina may have been antagonistic toward Henry but deep down she still love him. Likewise what if Victoria despite being antagonistic love Lucy. What if Lucy was her cat, Lucifer from the animation. The saying is cats have nine lives. What if Lucifer was given a year of age for every lives and transform into human? And that's how we got Lucy. Crazy theory I know.lol

      That is so crazy, it is almost possible. XD

      We’ve had stranger plot twists on this show.

      That is true! We have the Grimm Bros to thank for that.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • 123Raura wrote: Also. Interesting theory based on what I've seen: Tilly might be awake again. Only this time, she has herself under control.

      Yep, seems like Alice is awake in this episode.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • (MOD): Let's not discuss any (current) theories that are not strongly related to this thead. Further posts will be deleted.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Is it just me or did Drizella act DRASTICALLY different in 7x06 and previous episodes?

      In 7x05 when she visited Tiana, she looked, talked and was so different than when she met Regina. But scenes in 7x05 happen before 7x06.

      Did Drizella only act good and fragile with Regina so she could take down her mother then?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • The Great Sorcerer wrote:
      Is it just me or did Drizella act DRASTICALLY different in 7x06 and previous episodes?

      In 7x05 when she visited Tiana, she looked, talked and was so different than when she met Regina. But scenes in 7x05 happen before 7x06.

      Did Drizella only act good and fragile with Regina so she could take down her mother then?

      Adelaide didn't know, probably. But I think Drizella was snobbish naturally, just not murderous. After all, we saw that Regina didn't want to be like Cora, but she had so many characters like Cora anyhow.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • The Great Sorcerer wrote: Is it just me or did Drizella act DRASTICALLY different in 7x06 and previous episodes?

      In 7x05 when she visited Tiana, she looked, talked and was so different than when she met Regina. But scenes in 7x05 happen before 7x06.

      Did Drizella only act good and fragile with Regina so she could take down her mother then?

      I read a theory somewhere that Drizella already knew magic but she was tricking Regina into telling her about the Dark Curse by getting close to her. She could have been manipulating Regina then, which makes her character even creepier.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I loved that Rogers recruited Tilly to find the missing girl/his daughter. And that the show gave more clues to the Alice/Tilly is his daughter theory. She had a black rook in her hand and gave it to him. That was two chess-related clues we’ve gotten. There is no way those were red herrings. 

      Unless the 'girlfriend' Tilly discussed with Weaver was WHook's Daughter and taught Tilly to play chess while they were together...

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    • I personally think all these clues suggesting Alice/Tilly is WHook's daughter are just red herring. No way they make it that obvious.

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    • Eskaver
      Eskaver removed this reply because:
      Spoiler
      11:34, November 14, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • I don't want Alice to be Hook's daughter.

      BTW, didn't Eskaver tell us not to talk about theories?

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    • SeanWheeler wrote:
      I don't want Alice to be Hook's daughter.

      BTW, didn't Eskaver tell us not to talk about theories?

      It's more of a shaky ground. Thoughts and discussion about the episode are cool, but theories sometimes brindge into spoilers (which aren't allowed on this board) or are either consumed/all consuming in the thread.

      Come next episode, rarely anyone would revisit the previous episode thread, thus it's even more likely for people to not see it or choose to discuss it. Plus, the cross-threa conversations have to kept to a decent level. Every episode thread can't discuss an ongoing theory and expect any real conversation.

      ex. If you theorize by signs that Alice is Hook's daughter, then you might end up stretching over several episode threads, but it's better to just put that in one thread.

      And I don't think Alice is Hook's daughter because they are really hitting it over our heads a bit too hard. XD

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    • I only want to say that I expected this episode to be boring but Wow, I was pleasantly surprised! 

      Adelaide Kane did an outstanding job as Drizella. And Lana was also great too, especially in the wake up scene. 

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    • I'm so glad Regina finally woke up. Too bad, she couldn't tell Henry. I wonder if she would tell Lucy that she was right? I'm sure there's got to be some flaw in Drizella's plan that makes it not as hero-proof as she needed because it would have to be resolved at the end of the Season, right?

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    • SeanWheeler wrote:
      I wonder if she would tell Lucy that she was right?

      I doubt she'll do anything that could risk breaking the curse. At least until she can figure out a way around whatever Drizzle did.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • DatNuttyKid wrote:

      SeanWheeler wrote:
      I wonder if she would tell Lucy that she was right?

      I doubt she'll do anything that could risk breaking the curse. At least until she can figure out a way around whatever Drizzle did.

      She could warn Lucy about the dangers of breaking the curse, right? I really want to know what happens when the curse is broken and why it's so dangerous to tell Henry?

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    • Esk's Grade Report

      Plot (2.5 out of 3)

      - Short and simple to say that it was pretty much solid. Not much to say beyond that the story was acknowledging similarities and that the development helps spur the plot into a higher gear. There is strong tension, despite very vague details. 

      - At some point, pointing back and noting how similar things gets out of hand. So, the only real deduction is due to this. It's cool for the occasional matter, but this can't be an every other episode thing. Helps emphasize character, but it pulls a little away from a good plot.

      Character (3 out of 4)

      - Drizella: Characters have three main aspects and as a character and villain, Drizella was solidly set-up utilizing a less developed Tremaine (not too sympathetic, very proactive, doesn't really get much done) to invoke sympathy towards Drizella, while currently establishing Drizella's competence and proactivity. Though shades of former villains might appear, Drizella is comfortably her own.

      - Regina: Solid development. We get different takes between many parents and children and this gives a little more insight towards this. (Personally, I think they should expand Regina in other ways as it may come off as her being Henry-obsessed.)

      - Henry and Jace: Previously, there was some development, but Jace's story and Henry's sort of diverted. While if the characters were magnets, Jace's sort of pulls on Lucy, Sabine, and the Belfreys, while Henry tries his best to connect the old and Jace. A solid start and we'll have to get more. To use a plant analogy, this was a seed, but it needs fertile ground, time, and care to grow.

      - Everybody else: The only think that holds this episode back is the static nature that grows a little more apparent whcih each pasisng episode. The rule appears to be: If this isn't focused on you, then you are replaced with cardboard cutouts. In a more writing sort of standpoint, it's like their development hits pause when they reach a certain point. Rogers, while very active, seems very static. Weaver, while given good reason to be offscreen, wasn't given too much to follow up with. Tilly resumes the chaotic, eccentric role, but not much touched on from before. Sabine is offscreen. Victoria/Tremaine is decent in the limited time. The Witch is slowly developing, gathering intrigue. Having a larger cast means more to balance, but we can't sideline too many characters at once, even if it's something small.

      Balance (2 out of 2)

      - A solid J/J episode balancing humor, drama, and realism.

      Fandom Outlook (1 out of 1)

      - I think it was very well received. 

      Overall (8.5 out of 10)

      Might adjust it down to an 8, but pretty much, it was pretty good. It's clear that there were some cut scenes and there needed to be some more with the non-centric cast.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • A Spy in the Mirror
        Preparing Editor Spell
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