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  • This is sort of like a chose-one-and-explain sort of option, while also a presentation of my own thoughts and analysis. It's a decent discussion as it could explain some character dynamics, issues, and future events we may witness.

    The show has major characters, Emma, Rumple, and Regina. This show has been their story (Well, Emma's story with those two shaping the narrative). The show has minor character, Snow, David, Belle, Henry, etc. However, important to the story of that moment they main narrative isn't their story, but they play major roles within the major characters' stories. Then there's Hook. Where does he fit in?

    My determination is pretty obvious. He's a minor character. There's a touch of nuance to his situtation, however. He is a minor character wearing a major character jacket while still being treated like a minor character. In other words, he's a minor character dressed as a major character. How is he a minor character? He is within someone else's story. Hook's existence is simply part of Emma's story. Similar to how Belle mostly functions within the bounds of all things related to Rumple and how Robin and Zelena stay within all things Regina, Hook is no different. 

    I think part of his handling is what happens to most minor characters that get a long time in the limelight: they are exposed for what they are. Belle recently gained a lot of screentime, but her story no matter how central to her was stuck within "How does this affect Rumple?" Regina letting Zelena keep Robin Jr was not about Robin, but "How does this affect Regina?". Such is they way with Hook and season 6's angsty adventure. Often the show displays who is the dominant character (like how David rarely goes outside Snow), despite more intriguiging options to explore in the minor character at the moment. Thus it is sort of painted that way. Hook had a bad instance in the past and it was painted "How will Emma react? How could he do such a thing to Emma?" with small references to David who's the bigger victim. I saw similar things when Belle stood up to Rumple with claims of running away and some people asking "How could she do that to Rumple?". I doubt it's simply bias towards a favorite character, but also due to the character dynamics presented. But hey, it's just a theory, a ONCE theory.

    So, what do you think? Do you think Hook is a major character? Why? How do you think he's handled in these major roles he's given?

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    • I think he could have been considered major only in season five, as the story since 5x08 was mostly about him (even though he was still associated with Emma). 

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    • I believe major characters to be those played by the main cast members and minor characters to be those played by reccuring cast and guest stars. So since Killian/Hook is played by one of the main cast members, he is a major character.

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    • Just like Belle, Zelena and Henry, he is a minor character. The only difference is the writers try to make him look like a major one, so that CaptainSwan won't die like Snowing or OQ. I canT imagine 3A without Captain Hook, one of the important characters in Peter Pan story. But after that, he was only there because of Emma, as you said. Even his centrics ALWAYS but ALWAYS are about Emma not him. He does something bad in his past, Emma somehow knows about this, Hook doesn't want to say it but eventually he does and they kiss. Some says that he is a major character. Okay I respect their opinions but this is something like me saying "Belle is a major character in this show" ( I specifically said Belle because she is one of my favs in the show) and it would really seem funny in their eyes. To me, they had to remove Hook from the show after 3A ends for the sake of the show, Emma and the character himself.

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    • CadoDoan wrote:
      Just like Belle, Zelena and Henry, he is a minor character. The only difference is the writers try to make him look like a major one, so that CaptainSwan won't die like Snowing or OQ. I canT imagine 3A without Captain Hook, one of the important characters in Peter Pan story. But after that, he was only there because of Emma, as you said. Even his centrics ALWAYS but ALWAYS are about Emma not him. He does something bad in his past, Emma somehow knows about this, Hook doesn't want to say it but eventually he does and they kiss. Some says that he is a major character. Okay I respect their opinions but this is something like me saying "Belle is a major character in this show" ( I specifically said Belle because she is one of my favs in the show) and it would really seem funny in their eyes. To me, they had to remove Hook from the show after 3A ends for the sake of the show, Emma and the character himself.

      Agree. 

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    • I would say at this point, Hook is comparable to David in terms of how "major" they are, not Belle. The story has never really been framed around them (more so their women), but I wouldn't consider them minor. Hook has also gotten a lot more development and interactions with other characters than people like Belle and Zelena.

      So not on the Emma/Regina/Snow level........but not Belle/Zelena/Henry. Like a mid-tier character.

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    • I think he should have been a minor character because he doesn't fit into the family dynamics and what once were the major themes of the show about family, finding lost souls and hope. In my opinion, he should have sailed away in season 3 and the writers should have made the spin off about his advantures in various lands (kind of doing the "anthology" format but tying it all together with him).

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    • This whole conversation makes me really sad that they turned Henry into an irrelevant character.

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    • I feel like Hook was a major character, but his story should of ended a while ago. I liked characters redemption arcs, but I would've preferred if he left after 3A - sort of an anti-hero character. I feel like he's been kept in for the fans, and he doesn't realy have and storylines outside of CaptainSwan. I feel like the end of 5A was in order to make him relevant again (and it did), but to me it was so unneccessary, and I felt that we were robbed of the Dark Swan arc (but thats whole other issue).

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    • Minor character. I don't see how people don't see that. He doesn't play an important role in the plot. The only reason he is still around is for Captianswan. He is no more of a character than say Belle or Robin. If his character never existed nothing about the show would change except who Emma is in a relationship with. 


      Hook as a character is just there. His character serves no real purpose outside of being a love interest. He should have left after season 3A. 

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    • I love Hook and Emma together but I think Hook sometimes damages the storyline because he is a minor character forced into a major role. He is the most disjointed character from the gang but they are always forcing his storyline to tie into the main storyline, which results in aberrations like Swan Song or Dark Waters 

      Look at his centrics. With the exception of 3x17, all of them feel like out of the place, not as bad as The Bear King that's for sure, but they are always contrived and forced. Even more, they tend to obviate that he is like +200 years old and he should be A LOT wiser than he is, just to make him fit in the dinamic of CaptainSwan, and we see him acting like a teenager doing stupid things just for the sake of plot.

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    • 8Rob wrote:
      I love Hook and Emma together but I think Hook sometimes damages the storyline because he is a minor character forced into a major role. He is the most disjointed character from the gang but they are always forcing his storyline to tie into the main storyline, which results in aberrations like Swan Song or Dark Waters 

      Look at his centrics. With the exception of 3x17, all of them feel like out of the place, not as bad as The Bear King that's for sure, but they are always contrived and forced. Even more, they tend to obviate that he is like +200 years old and he should be A LOT wiser than he is, just to make him fit in the dinamic of CaptainSwan, and we see him acting like a teenager doing stupid things just for the sake of plot.

      Agree. I like Hook and I like him with Emma, but specially this 6B I'm getting tired of him, because all the plot of Robert's death has been very bad written. They try to give him a major storyline, but they always choose one stupid, like give him a brother out of the timeline just to ignore that for 9 episodes and, then, get him out of the show. Is like the writers turned his story with Emma (or Emma's story with him) in some kind of cheap teen drama. Also, sometimes he looks like a Marty Stue.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      This is sort of like a chose-one-and-explain sort of option, while also a presentation of my own thoughts and analysis. It's a decent discussion as it could explain some character dynamics, issues, and future events we may witness.

      The show has major characters, Emma, Rumple, and Regina. This show has been their story (Well, Emma's story with those two shaping the narrative). The show has minor character, Snow, David, Belle, Henry, etc. However, important to the story of that moment they main narrative isn't their story, but they play major roles within the major characters' stories. Then there's Hook. Where does he fit in?

      My determination is pretty obvious. He's a minor character. There's a touch of nuance to his situtation, however. He is a minor character wearing a major character jacket while still being treated like a minor character. In other words, he's a minor character dressed as a major character. How is he a minor character? He is within someone else's story. Hook's existence is simply part of Emma's story. Similar to how Belle mostly functions within the bounds of all things related to Rumple and how Robin and Zelena stay within all things Regina, Hook is no different. 

      I think part of his handling is what happens to most minor characters that get a long time in the limelight: they are exposed for what they are. Belle recently gained a lot of screentime, but her story no matter how central to her was stuck within "How does this affect Rumple?" Regina letting Zelena keep Robin Jr was not about Robin, but "How does this affect Regina?". Such is they way with Hook and season 6's angsty adventure. Often the show displays who is the dominant character (like how David rarely goes outside Snow), despite more intriguiging options to explore in the minor character at the moment. Thus it is sort of painted that way. Hook had a bad instance in the past and it was painted "How will Emma react? How could he do such a thing to Emma?" with small references to David who's the bigger victim. I saw similar things when Belle stood up to Rumple with claims of running away and some people asking "How could she do that to Rumple?". I doubt it's simply bias towards a favorite character, but also due to the character dynamics presented. But hey, it's just a theory, a ONCE theory.

      So, what do you think? Do you think Hook is a major character? Why? How do you think he's handled in these major roles he's given?

      I think we have different concepts of what "major" and "minor" characters mean; the way I classify characters goes like this:

      1-> Lead characters (Different from lead actors): characters that have their own "storyline niche", that is, characters who directly influence and may be the cause of the storylines of certain other characters that revolves exclusively around them. OUaT has four niches, Rumpel's, Emma's, Regina's, and Snow's, but Snow has lost prominence from season two onwards, so her status changed. This is different from a lead actor, as leading actors are contractual issues. The show also has four leads, JMo, Ginny, Lana, and Bobbie.

      2-> Main Characters: characters that have appeared in more than a season of the show, with individual storylines spanning multiple episodes outside of their character arc, and involvement in others' storylines. This show has, currently,  nine main characters: Regina, Emma, Zelena, Snow, Charming, Hook, Rumpel, Belle and Henry. Usually, but not always, coincides with the regular cast; Robin was never a main character, nor was Ruby.

      3-> Major Supporting: characters that have had individual storylines and have appeared in multiple episodes. This show has too many to list, but here are a few: Ruby, Robin, Archie, Aurora, Mulan, the Frozen cast, the QoD, Cora, Hades, Arthur, Granny, etc.

      4-> Minor Supporting: the rest. Examples include all dwarves other than Grumpy, all the Camelot cast other than Arthur, all the Lost Boys, all the Oz characters, etc.

      In my understanding, Hook is a main. But he is not a lead.

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    • I would say Hook is a major character. He plays a pivotal role. He is part of every plot line in some way - he has his own and it is never just a one-off or an arc. He is an active part of the show and has been since he began starring in it. He is just as much as part of someone else's story (i.e. Emma) as others are a part of his (i.e. Ariel, Liam etc.) 

      Hook isn't just there for Emma. As is true for a lot of characters, such as Snow and Charming, his connection to his true love, Emma, is a part of things in some way but that doesn't lessen his own role. I think the writers/A&E also see Hook as a major character.  

      Besides, I think Emma is often part of the Hook show just as much as he is part of the Emma show. He is not akin to how Robin or Belle are treated. He stands out a bit more than they do. I enjoy his part.

      I think he is handled okay - no better than the other major characters to be honest! I love that he has an internal struggle with what he did in the past and how that impacts upon him, not Emma etc, is more played as more important.  

      The problem with the show is that every single character - even Hook - has moments when they are very important and then not so much. It is quite hard to pin down the hierarchy of who is major and minor and how many levels of that there is. Emma is central while Regina often has more of a part than she does! 

      I think the ones who fall the most to that were Robin, and Belle. Robin was part of the Regina show every time he popped up, even his daughter served more as a wedge between Regina and Zelena.  

      At the moment, I think there needs to be particular focus on Belle as a mother, independent from Rumpel, and explore what connection may exist between her and Gideon. She needs to seek him out on her own more. She appears tethered to Rumpel's side on the subject a bit too much.

      The plot line started well, with Belle asserting her independence from Rumpel but now it is mainly Rumpel and the bond he has with Gideon, and how he can help him. I would love Belle to try a bit more for herself. It must be hard for her as a mother to lose her child and miss out his childhood.

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    • CadoDoan wrote:
      Just like Belle, Zelena and Henry, he is a minor character. The only difference is the writers try to make him look like a major one, so that CaptainSwan won't die like Snowing or OQ. I canT imagine 3A without Captain Hook, one of the important characters in Peter Pan story. But after that, he was only there because of Emma, as you said. Even his centrics ALWAYS but ALWAYS are about Emma not him. He does something bad in his past, Emma somehow knows about this, Hook doesn't want to say it but eventually he does and they kiss. Some says that he is a major character. Okay I respect their opinions but this is something like me saying "Belle is a major character in this show" ( I specifically said Belle because she is one of my favs in the show) and it would really seem funny in their eyes. To me, they had to remove Hook from the show after 3A ends for the sake of the show, Emma and the character himself.

      Completely agree!

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    • DracoWombat wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      This is sort of like a chose-one-and-explain sort of option, while also a presentation of my own thoughts and analysis. It's a decent discussion as it could explain some character dynamics, issues, and future events we may witness.

      The show has major characters, Emma, Rumple, and Regina. This show has been their story (Well, Emma's story with those two shaping the narrative). The show has minor character, Snow, David, Belle, Henry, etc. However, important to the story of that moment they main narrative isn't their story, but they play major roles within the major characters' stories. Then there's Hook. Where does he fit in?

      My determination is pretty obvious. He's a minor character. There's a touch of nuance to his situtation, however. He is a minor character wearing a major character jacket while still being treated like a minor character. In other words, he's a minor character dressed as a major character. How is he a minor character? He is within someone else's story. Hook's existence is simply part of Emma's story. Similar to how Belle mostly functions within the bounds of all things related to Rumple and how Robin and Zelena stay within all things Regina, Hook is no different. 

      I think part of his handling is what happens to most minor characters that get a long time in the limelight: they are exposed for what they are. Belle recently gained a lot of screentime, but her story no matter how central to her was stuck within "How does this affect Rumple?" Regina letting Zelena keep Robin Jr was not about Robin, but "How does this affect Regina?". Such is they way with Hook and season 6's angsty adventure. Often the show displays who is the dominant character (like how David rarely goes outside Snow), despite more intriguiging options to explore in the minor character at the moment. Thus it is sort of painted that way. Hook had a bad instance in the past and it was painted "How will Emma react? How could he do such a thing to Emma?" with small references to David who's the bigger victim. I saw similar things when Belle stood up to Rumple with claims of running away and some people asking "How could she do that to Rumple?". I doubt it's simply bias towards a favorite character, but also due to the character dynamics presented. But hey, it's just a theory, a ONCE theory.

      So, what do you think? Do you think Hook is a major character? Why? How do you think he's handled in these major roles he's given?

      I think we have different concepts of what "major" and "minor" characters mean; the way I classify characters goes like this:

      1-> Lead characters (Different from lead actors): characters that have their own "storyline niche", that is, characters who directly influence and may be the cause of the storylines of certain other characters that revolves exclusively around them. OUaT has four niches, Rumpel's, Emma's, Regina's, and Snow's, but Snow has lost prominence from season two onwards, so her status changed. This is different from a lead actor, as leading actors are contractual issues. The show also has four leads, JMo, Ginny, Lana, and Bobbie.

      2-> Main Characters: characters that have appeared in more than a season of the show, with individual storylines spanning multiple episodes outside of their character arc, and involvement in others' storylines. This show has, currently,  nine main characters: Regina, Emma, Zelena, Snow, Charming, Hook, Rumpel, Belle and Henry. Usually, but not always, coincides with the regular cast; Robin was never a main character, nor was Ruby.

      3-> Major Supporting: characters that have had individual storylines and have appeared in multiple episodes. This show has too many to list, but here are a few: Ruby, Robin, Archie, Aurora, Mulan, the Frozen cast, the QoD, Cora, Hades, Arthur, Granny, etc.

      4-> Minor Supporting: the rest. Examples include all dwarves other than Grumpy, all the Camelot cast other than Arthur, all the Lost Boys, all the Oz characters, etc.

      In my understanding, Hook is a main. But he is not a lead.

      These are basically my thoughts on the issue. I also believe Hook is a major/main character, but that he is not a lead character.

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    • A major character and Main character are two different things. 

      A major character is someone who plays an important role in the plot that just can't be replaced. Hook could have easily been replaced by Neal or August or even Graham really. His role is Emma love interest. He might get side stories but those side stories don't play an important role in the overall Story of the show or plot of the season trying to be told. Those stories are no more important than Zeleena's, Robins or Maleficents or Ursula's or Anna or Elsa's.


      Now we get to see more of his side stories than those people because he is a main character which equates to his screen time. 


      Main Character=Screen time                                       Major Character=Importance to the plot


      So Hook is a main character but not a major one. 

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    • KnocknickKnock wrote:
      A major character and Main character are two different things. 

      A major character is someone who plays an important role in the plot that just can't be replaced. Hook could have easily been replaced by Neal or August or even Graham really. His role is Emma love interest. He might get side stories but those side stories don't play an important role in the overall Story of the show or plot of the season trying to be told. Those stories are no more important than Zeleena's, Robins or Maleficents or Ursula's or Anna or Elsa's.


      Now we get to see more of his side stories than those people because he is a main character which equates to his screen time. 


      Main Character=Screen time                                       Major Character=Importance to the plot


      So Hook is a main character but not a major one. 

      No, Hook is not interchangeable with Neal or August; neither 3A, nor 5A (And coonsequentially nor 5B) could've happened had Emma's love interest been anyone else.

      By yourn logic, Regina is merely "Primary Antagonist of Season One" and could've been easily replaced with Zelena. Emma is simply "Tough Girl Protag", Henry is "Kid who ties Regina and Emma together" and could've had an entire different personality.

      Understand that I'm not saying that as a fan; I hate Hook with a passion. I'm merely trying to be objective. Hook is not easily replaceable with any other LI for Emma. Would Emma be better off with other men than Hook? I agree wholeheartedly. The show would've happened in the exact same way had Hook been Neal, Graham, or Walsh? No.

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    • DracoWombat wrote:
      KnocknickKnock wrote:
      A major character and Main character are two different things. 

      A major character is someone who plays an important role in the plot that just can't be replaced. Hook could have easily been replaced by Neal or August or even Graham really. His role is Emma love interest. He might get side stories but those side stories don't play an important role in the overall Story of the show or plot of the season trying to be told. Those stories are no more important than Zeleena's, Robins or Maleficents or Ursula's or Anna or Elsa's.


      Now we get to see more of his side stories than those people because he is a main character which equates to his screen time. 


      Main Character=Screen time                                       Major Character=Importance to the plot


      So Hook is a main character but not a major one. 

      No, Hook is not interchangeable with Neal or August; neither 3A, nor 5A (And coonsequentially nor 5B) could've happened had Emma's love interest been anyone else.

      By yourn logic, Regina is merely "Primary Antagonist of Season One" and could've been easily replaced with Zelena. Emma is simply "Tough Girl Protag", Henry is "Kid who ties Regina and Emma together" and could've had an entire different personality.

      Understand that I'm not saying that as a fan; I hate Hook with a passion. I'm merely trying to be objective. Hook is not easily replaceable with any other LI for Emma. Would Emma be better off with other men than Hook? I agree wholeheartedly. The show would've happened in the exact same way had Hook been Neal, Graham, or Walsh? No.

      3A was about getting Henry back and Pan. Hook played no important part in that one besides provided the ship which by that logic would make Ariel a Major chracter because she got the thing needed to trap Pan. 5A dealt with Emma being the dark one. 


      You don't understand what I mean by Major or important. Getting rid of Hook doesn't change the flow of the story at all. It might change the 5B arc but not the overall story of the show. Without Hook the Curse still would have been cast, Emma still would have been the Savior who broke the curse, Emma would still be the product of true love, Regina would still be the Evil Queen, Henry still would have been born, etc. 


      Without Regina there would be no curse storybrooke, Emma would have never been born because Snow would have never been met Charming, in which Henry would have never been born. 


      It isn't about changing the show to make other characters important but rather how important they are to the current story being told. You can replace the whole cast but it wouldn't be the same story being told. What I am talking about is how important Hook is to the actual plot being told currently. 


      Like I said he is no more important to the plot than Zeleena, Robin or Neal. They have all had thier important moments to the show or the character but they aren't important to the overall plot being told. 90% of Hook's screen time is dedicated to being Emma's love interest. That role could be given to Neal or August without actually changing the overall story. Emma would still be the savior, she would still have True love's magic, Regina would still be the Evil Queen, the curse would still be cast and the villains like Pan,Zeleena, Black, etc would still be coming to storybrooke. 


      I am not saying Hook hasn't had his moments. He was needed for his ship to go to Neverland, he was needed to help Charming survive, etc. The underworld and Dark one thing could have been done to anyone else without it actually affecting the overall show. 


      If Neal or August was Emma's love interest and was cut by the sword and dying, the same plot would have unfolded without affecting any other character except we would have Neal/August instead of Hook. Everyone else story would follow the exact same path. You don't change Neal/August to have the same backstory or mannerism as Hook. You keep everyone's Mannerism the same and backstories the same. You just replace Hook with Neal/August. Small details might change but nothing big. That would only be minor changes like who get's screen time and who is Emma's love interest. 

      If your replace Regina with say Zeleena or Maleficent than alot of the characters stories change. We would replace Snow/Charming with Dorothy, or Aurora/Phillip. Basically it is a similar story with different characters. That would be a major change to the show because now you are basically changing 90% of characters. 

      If Hook would have left at the end of season 3A and Neal was still Alive or August was around the story would basically remain the same. 

      We would still have the wicked witch arc, the Frozen arc, The queens of darkness arc, etc. There would be changes but only minor changes. Thus why Hook is only a minor character.

      p.S before you try to claim being a love interest makes you a major character than that would make Robin a Major character, in which we see he isn't.

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    • While Hook is not as major as Emma, Regina, Rumple, or Snow, he is more major than David, Zelena, Belle, and Henry. Because Hook not only is Emma's love interest (which all happens in present day plot), he also has major backstory with Rumple. Finally, he is our main link to the rest of the Peter Pan story. Basically, he is vital to two of the most major characters (Emma and Rumple), as well as being our main connecting point to all the Peter Pan plot (which got quite a bit of focus on this show), which is why I believe he is where I stated as far as importance.

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    • Hook kinda does have a character outside Emma though. His backstory with Rumple. The way he sought revenge for what happened to Milah all his life that kinda stuff. That was a vital part of his character. He had a character there that even if there was no Emma would still exist. I don't think the entire CaptainSwan story is based around Emma either. I think its just as much Hook's story as it is Emma's. I mean before Captain Swan was official both Emma and Hook had their own character. CaptainSwan is those two independent characters coming together as love interests for one another. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • KnocknickKnock wrote:
      DracoWombat wrote:
      KnocknickKnock wrote:
      A major character and Main character are two different things. 

      A major character is someone who plays an important role in the plot that just can't be replaced. Hook could have easily been replaced by Neal or August or even Graham really. His role is Emma love interest. He might get side stories but those side stories don't play an important role in the overall Story of the show or plot of the season trying to be told. Those stories are no more important than Zeleena's, Robins or Maleficents or Ursula's or Anna or Elsa's.


      Now we get to see more of his side stories than those people because he is a main character which equates to his screen time. 


      Main Character=Screen time                                       Major Character=Importance to the plot


      So Hook is a main character but not a major one. 

      No, Hook is not interchangeable with Neal or August; neither 3A, nor 5A (And coonsequentially nor 5B) could've happened had Emma's love interest been anyone else.

      By yourn logic, Regina is merely "Primary Antagonist of Season One" and could've been easily replaced with Zelena. Emma is simply "Tough Girl Protag", Henry is "Kid who ties Regina and Emma together" and could've had an entire different personality.

      Understand that I'm not saying that as a fan; I hate Hook with a passion. I'm merely trying to be objective. Hook is not easily replaceable with any other LI for Emma. Would Emma be better off with other men than Hook? I agree wholeheartedly. The show would've happened in the exact same way had Hook been Neal, Graham, or Walsh? No.

      3A was about getting Henry back and Pan. Hook played no important part in that one besides provided the ship which by that logic would make Ariel a Major chracter because she got the thing needed to trap Pan. 5A dealt with Emma being the dark one. 


      You don't understand what I mean by Major or important. Getting rid of Hook doesn't change the flow of the story at all. It might change the 5B arc but not the overall story of the show. Without Hook the Curse still would have been cast, Emma still would have been the Savior who broke the curse, Emma would still be the product of true love, Regina would still be the Evil Queen, Henry still would have been born, etc. 


      Without Regina there would be no curse storybrooke, Emma would have never been born because Snow would have never been met Charming, in which Henry would have never been born. 


      It isn't about changing the show to make other characters important but rather how important they are to the current story being told. You can replace the whole cast but it wouldn't be the same story being told. What I am talking about is how important Hook is to the actual plot being told currently. 


      Like I said he is no more important to the plot than Zeleena, Robin or Neal. They have all had thier important moments to the show or the character but they aren't important to the overall plot being told. 90% of Hook's screen time is dedicated to being Emma's love interest. That role could be given to Neal or August without actually changing the overall story. Emma would still be the savior, she would still have True love's magic, Regina would still be the Evil Queen, the curse would still be cast and the villains like Pan,Zeleena, Black, etc would still be coming to storybrooke. 


      I am not saying Hook hasn't had his moments. He was needed for his ship to go to Neverland, he was needed to help Charming survive, etc. The underworld and Dark one thing could have been done to anyone else without it actually affecting the overall show. 


      If Neal or August was Emma's love interest and was cut by the sword and dying, the same plot would have unfolded without affecting any other character except we would have Neal/August instead of Hook. Everyone else story would follow the exact same path. You don't change Neal/August to have the same backstory or mannerism as Hook. You keep everyone's Mannerism the same and backstories the same. You just replace Hook with Neal/August. Small details might change but nothing big. That would only be minor changes like who get's screen time and who is Emma's love interest. 

      If your replace Regina with say Zeleena or Maleficent than alot of the characters stories change. We would replace Snow/Charming with Dorothy, or Aurora/Phillip. Basically it is a similar story with different characters. That would be a major change to the show because now you are basically changing 90% of characters. 

      If Hook would have left at the end of season 3A and Neal was still Alive or August was around the story would basically remain the same. 

      We would still have the wicked witch arc, the Frozen arc, The queens of darkness arc, etc. There would be changes but only minor changes. Thus why Hook is only a minor character.

      p.S before you try to claim being a love interest makes you a major character than that would make Robin a Major character, in which we see he isn't.


      You're under the assumption (that many people in the fandom incorrectly hold) that OUaT seasons are so isolated form each other that one does not impact the other and the status quo returns to how it was every half-season. But let's see:

      a) Without Hook, 3A couldn't have happened. As a consequence, either Henry dies kidnapped by Pan, or the Nevengers get stuck in Neverland forever.

      b) Assuming 3B can happen without Hook, you no longer have a means for someone to administer the Memory Potion to Emma. So, 3B can't happen either.

      c) This is OUaT, and the writers can come up with convenient MacGuffins all the time. So, assuming there were another way for Emma's new love interest to give her the Memory Potion, Rumpel wouldn't have been able to use the ritual to free himself from the dagger in 4A, as the ritual required the heart of someone who knew him before he was the Dark One. Neal could've fulfilled this role, but Rumpel would never kill Neal. Although the spell could be rewritten to not demand such a sacrifice, Belle would not have contested to Rumpel wanting to free himself if it did not involve killing. With Rumpel in town, Rumbelle together, there is no QoD. Result: 4B can't happen either.

      d) Assuming 4B could happen, 5A still can't happen. A&E hookrolled the fandom; the season was hyped as being about Emma as the Dark One but the mainstoryline was Hook's (It just took long to show). 5A needs Hook to happen as he is a central elements to the storyline.

      e) 5B can't happen if not for 5A.

      The show is the writing. There's no "essence" of OUaT other than what is written. If anything is changed, it's no longer the same show; that's what AUs are, inspired by the show but they're not the show. I have hundreds of Swan Queen AUs but I don't live under the illusion that they could be canon.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • so multiple things

      1. i loved your ending it was hilarious

      2. there are half seasons that he wasn't just emma: 2a, 3a, 5a.

      3. i dont take it as major and minor but as major(as you said rumple,emma and regina) major minor(snow, david belle henery and hook) and minor(all the rest)

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • DracoWombat wrote:
      KnocknickKnock wrote:
      DracoWombat wrote:
      KnocknickKnock wrote:
      A major character and Main character are two different things. 

      A major character is someone who plays an important role in the plot that just can't be replaced. Hook could have easily been replaced by Neal or August or even Graham really. His role is Emma love interest. He might get side stories but those side stories don't play an important role in the overall Story of the show or plot of the season trying to be told. Those stories are no more important than Zeleena's, Robins or Maleficents or Ursula's or Anna or Elsa's.


      Now we get to see more of his side stories than those people because he is a main character which equates to his screen time. 


      Main Character=Screen time                                       Major Character=Importance to the plot


      So Hook is a main character but not a major one. 

      No, Hook is not interchangeable with Neal or August; neither 3A, nor 5A (And coonsequentially nor 5B) could've happened had Emma's love interest been anyone else.
      By yourn logic, Regina is merely "Primary Antagonist of Season One" and could've been easily replaced with Zelena. Emma is simply "Tough Girl Protag", Henry is "Kid who ties Regina and Emma together" and could've had an entire different personality.

      Understand that I'm not saying that as a fan; I hate Hook with a passion. I'm merely trying to be objective. Hook is not easily replaceable with any other LI for Emma. Would Emma be better off with other men than Hook? I agree wholeheartedly. The show would've happened in the exact same way had Hook been Neal, Graham, or Walsh? No.

      3A was about getting Henry back and Pan. Hook played no important part in that one besides provided the ship which by that logic would make Ariel a Major chracter because she got the thing needed to trap Pan. 5A dealt with Emma being the dark one. 


      You don't understand what I mean by Major or important. Getting rid of Hook doesn't change the flow of the story at all. It might change the 5B arc but not the overall story of the show. Without Hook the Curse still would have been cast, Emma still would have been the Savior who broke the curse, Emma would still be the product of true love, Regina would still be the Evil Queen, Henry still would have been born, etc. 


      Without Regina there would be no curse storybrooke, Emma would have never been born because Snow would have never been met Charming, in which Henry would have never been born. 


      It isn't about changing the show to make other characters important but rather how important they are to the current story being told. You can replace the whole cast but it wouldn't be the same story being told. What I am talking about is how important Hook is to the actual plot being told currently. 


      Like I said he is no more important to the plot than Zeleena, Robin or Neal. They have all had thier important moments to the show or the character but they aren't important to the overall plot being told. 90% of Hook's screen time is dedicated to being Emma's love interest. That role could be given to Neal or August without actually changing the overall story. Emma would still be the savior, she would still have True love's magic, Regina would still be the Evil Queen, the curse would still be cast and the villains like Pan,Zeleena, Black, etc would still be coming to storybrooke. 


      I am not saying Hook hasn't had his moments. He was needed for his ship to go to Neverland, he was needed to help Charming survive, etc. The underworld and Dark one thing could have been done to anyone else without it actually affecting the overall show. 


      If Neal or August was Emma's love interest and was cut by the sword and dying, the same plot would have unfolded without affecting any other character except we would have Neal/August instead of Hook. Everyone else story would follow the exact same path. You don't change Neal/August to have the same backstory or mannerism as Hook. You keep everyone's Mannerism the same and backstories the same. You just replace Hook with Neal/August. Small details might change but nothing big. That would only be minor changes like who get's screen time and who is Emma's love interest. 

      If your replace Regina with say Zeleena or Maleficent than alot of the characters stories change. We would replace Snow/Charming with Dorothy, or Aurora/Phillip. Basically it is a similar story with different characters. That would be a major change to the show because now you are basically changing 90% of characters. 

      If Hook would have left at the end of season 3A and Neal was still Alive or August was around the story would basically remain the same. 

      We would still have the wicked witch arc, the Frozen arc, The queens of darkness arc, etc. There would be changes but only minor changes. Thus why Hook is only a minor character.

      p.S before you try to claim being a love interest makes you a major character than that would make Robin a Major character, in which we see he isn't.


      You're under the assumption (that many people in the fandom incorrectly hold) that OUaT seasons are so isolated form each other that one does not impact the other and the status quo returns to how it was every half-season. But let's see:

      a) Without Hook, 3A couldn't have happened. As a consequence, either Henry dies kidnapped by Pan, or the Nevengers get stuck in Neverland forever.

      b) Assuming 3B can happen without Hook, you no longer have a means for someone to administer the Memory Potion to Emma. So, 3B can't happen either.

      c) This is OUaT, and the writers can come up with convenient MacGuffins all the time. So, assuming there were another way for Emma's new love interest to give her the Memory Potion, Rumpel wouldn't have been able to use the ritual to free himself from the dagger in 4A, as the ritual required the heart of someone who knew him before he was the Dark One. Neal could've fulfilled this role, but Rumpel would never kill Neal. Although the spell could be rewritten to not demand such a sacrifice, Belle would not have contested to Rumpel wanting to free himself if it did not involve killing. With Rumpel in town, Rumbelle together, there is no QoD. Result: 4B can't happen either.

      d) Assuming 4B could happen, 5A still can't happen. A&E hookrolled the fandom; the season was hyped as being about Emma as the Dark One but the mainstoryline was Hook's (It just took long to show). 5A needs Hook to happen as he is a central elements to the storyline.

      e) 5B can't happen if not for 5A.

      The show is the writing. There's no "essence" of OUaT other than what is written. If anything is changed, it's no longer the same show; that's what AUs are, inspired by the show but they're not the show. I have hundreds of Swan Queen AUs but I don't live under the illusion that they could be canon.

      Then every character Once upon a time is major because changing anything, in you words, it wouldn't be the same show.


      You fail to comprehend what Major and Minor mean once again. The Major plot points of the show is: Emma being the savior/Regina being the Evil Queen/Dark One/Dark Curse. Without any strong ties to any of those things you aren't a major character. Not just having ties but heavy ones. Because every character have came across the Dakr one, Evil Queen, being affected by the curse and been saved by the savior(Once she broke the curse).

      Hook doesn't have heavy ties to Emma being the savior. \

      Hook does not have Heavy ties to the first dark Curse

      Hook does no have heavy ties to the Evil Queen

      Hook does not have heavy ties to the Dark one.


      He might have encountered these people or things in his life but he doesn't heavily infulence any of them. If we are going to make an argument that without Hook we wouldn't have gotten to neverland than that argument could be made just about any character on the show. Neal would be major because he played an imortant part in the OZ arc and without him there would be no Henry thus Emma would have never came to storybrooke to break the curse. August would be important because without him Emma would have never went to jail ands thus never gave up Henry and without Henry being in Storybrooke, Emma would have never broke the curse. Without Maleficent, Ursula and Cruella the Dark one would have never got the dark curse to cast. Without Blue, Neal would have never went to land without magic and thus never meet Emma. We can keep going.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • KnocknickKnock wrote:
      DracoWombat wrote:
      KnocknickKnock wrote:
      DracoWombat wrote:
      KnocknickKnock wrote:
      A major character and Main character are two different things. 

      A major character is someone who plays an important role in the plot that just can't be replaced. Hook could have easily been replaced by Neal or August or even Graham really. His role is Emma love interest. He might get side stories but those side stories don't play an important role in the overall Story of the show or plot of the season trying to be told. Those stories are no more important than Zeleena's, Robins or Maleficents or Ursula's or Anna or Elsa's.


      Now we get to see more of his side stories than those people because he is a main character which equates to his screen time. 


      Main Character=Screen time                                       Major Character=Importance to the plot


      So Hook is a main character but not a major one. 

      No, Hook is not interchangeable with Neal or August; neither 3A, nor 5A (And coonsequentially nor 5B) could've happened had Emma's love interest been anyone else.
      By yourn logic, Regina is merely "Primary Antagonist of Season One" and could've been easily replaced with Zelena. Emma is simply "Tough Girl Protag", Henry is "Kid who ties Regina and Emma together" and could've had an entire different personality.

      Understand that I'm not saying that as a fan; I hate Hook with a passion. I'm merely trying to be objective. Hook is not easily replaceable with any other LI for Emma. Would Emma be better off with other men than Hook? I agree wholeheartedly. The show would've happened in the exact same way had Hook been Neal, Graham, or Walsh? No.

      3A was about getting Henry back and Pan. Hook played no important part in that one besides provided the ship which by that logic would make Ariel a Major chracter because she got the thing needed to trap Pan. 5A dealt with Emma being the dark one. 


      You don't understand what I mean by Major or important. Getting rid of Hook doesn't change the flow of the story at all. It might change the 5B arc but not the overall story of the show. Without Hook the Curse still would have been cast, Emma still would have been the Savior who broke the curse, Emma would still be the product of true love, Regina would still be the Evil Queen, Henry still would have been born, etc. 


      Without Regina there would be no curse storybrooke, Emma would have never been born because Snow would have never been met Charming, in which Henry would have never been born. 


      It isn't about changing the show to make other characters important but rather how important they are to the current story being told. You can replace the whole cast but it wouldn't be the same story being told. What I am talking about is how important Hook is to the actual plot being told currently. 


      Like I said he is no more important to the plot than Zeleena, Robin or Neal. They have all had thier important moments to the show or the character but they aren't important to the overall plot being told. 90% of Hook's screen time is dedicated to being Emma's love interest. That role could be given to Neal or August without actually changing the overall story. Emma would still be the savior, she would still have True love's magic, Regina would still be the Evil Queen, the curse would still be cast and the villains like Pan,Zeleena, Black, etc would still be coming to storybrooke. 


      I am not saying Hook hasn't had his moments. He was needed for his ship to go to Neverland, he was needed to help Charming survive, etc. The underworld and Dark one thing could have been done to anyone else without it actually affecting the overall show. 


      If Neal or August was Emma's love interest and was cut by the sword and dying, the same plot would have unfolded without affecting any other character except we would have Neal/August instead of Hook. Everyone else story would follow the exact same path. You don't change Neal/August to have the same backstory or mannerism as Hook. You keep everyone's Mannerism the same and backstories the same. You just replace Hook with Neal/August. Small details might change but nothing big. That would only be minor changes like who get's screen time and who is Emma's love interest. 

      If your replace Regina with say Zeleena or Maleficent than alot of the characters stories change. We would replace Snow/Charming with Dorothy, or Aurora/Phillip. Basically it is a similar story with different characters. That would be a major change to the show because now you are basically changing 90% of characters. 

      If Hook would have left at the end of season 3A and Neal was still Alive or August was around the story would basically remain the same. 

      We would still have the wicked witch arc, the Frozen arc, The queens of darkness arc, etc. There would be changes but only minor changes. Thus why Hook is only a minor character.

      p.S before you try to claim being a love interest makes you a major character than that would make Robin a Major character, in which we see he isn't.


      You're under the assumption (that many people in the fandom incorrectly hold) that OUaT seasons are so isolated form each other that one does not impact the other and the status quo returns to how it was every half-season. But let's see:

      a) Without Hook, 3A couldn't have happened. As a consequence, either Henry dies kidnapped by Pan, or the Nevengers get stuck in Neverland forever.

      b) Assuming 3B can happen without Hook, you no longer have a means for someone to administer the Memory Potion to Emma. So, 3B can't happen either.

      c) This is OUaT, and the writers can come up with convenient MacGuffins all the time. So, assuming there were another way for Emma's new love interest to give her the Memory Potion, Rumpel wouldn't have been able to use the ritual to free himself from the dagger in 4A, as the ritual required the heart of someone who knew him before he was the Dark One. Neal could've fulfilled this role, but Rumpel would never kill Neal. Although the spell could be rewritten to not demand such a sacrifice, Belle would not have contested to Rumpel wanting to free himself if it did not involve killing. With Rumpel in town, Rumbelle together, there is no QoD. Result: 4B can't happen either.

      d) Assuming 4B could happen, 5A still can't happen. A&E hookrolled the fandom; the season was hyped as being about Emma as the Dark One but the mainstoryline was Hook's (It just took long to show). 5A needs Hook to happen as he is a central elements to the storyline.

      e) 5B can't happen if not for 5A.

      The show is the writing. There's no "essence" of OUaT other than what is written. If anything is changed, it's no longer the same show; that's what AUs are, inspired by the show but they're not the show. I have hundreds of Swan Queen AUs but I don't live under the illusion that they could be canon.

      Then every character Once upon a time is major because changing anything, in you words, it wouldn't be the same show.


      You fail to comprehend what Major and Minor mean once again. The Major plot points of the show is: Emma being the savior/Regina being the Evil Queen/Dark One/Dark Curse. Without any strong ties to any of those things you aren't a major character. Not just having ties but heavy ones. Because every character have came across the Dakr one, Evil Queen, being affected by the curse and been saved by the savior(Once she broke the curse).

      Hook doesn't have heavy ties to Emma being the savior. \

      Hook does not have Heavy ties to the first dark Curse

      Hook does no have heavy ties to the Evil Queen

      Hook does not have heavy ties to the Dark one.


      He might have encountered these people or things in his life but he doesn't heavily infulence any of them. If we are going to make an argument that without Hook we wouldn't have gotten to neverland than that argument could be made just about any character on the show. Neal would be major because he played an imortant part in the OZ arc and without him there would be no Henry thus Emma would have never came to storybrooke to break the curse. August would be important because without him Emma would have never went to jail ands thus never gave up Henry and without Henry being in Storybrooke, Emma would have never broke the curse. Without Maleficent, Ursula and Cruella the Dark one would have never got the dark curse to cast. Without Blue, Neal would have never went to land without magic and thus never meet Emma. We can keep going.


      And you remain treating your subjective opinions on the show and what you consider to be the important plot points as objective facts, which they are not. My criteria for classifying someone as major and minor is entirely different from yours and I took great care to avoid any semblance of subjectivity in it. I'll repeat if you need a reminder:

      1-> Lead characters (Different from lead actors): characters that have their own "storyline niche", that is, characters who directly influence and may be the cause of the storylines of certain other characters that revolves exclusively around them. OUaT has four niches, Rumpel's, Emma's, Regina's, and Snow's, but Snow has lost prominence from season two onwards, so her status changed. This is different from a lead actor, as leading actors are contractual issues. The show also has four leads, JMo, Ginny, Lana, and Bobbie.

      2-> Main Characters: characters that have appeared in more than a season of the show, with individual storylines spanning multiple episodes outside of their character arc, and involvement in others' storylines. This show has, currently,  nine main characters: Regina, Emma, Zelena, Snow, Charming, Hook, Rumpel, Belle and Henry. Usually, but not always, coincides with the regular cast; Robin was never a main character, nor was Ruby.

      3-> Major Supporting: characters that have had individual storylines and have appeared in multiple episodes. This show has too many to list, but here are a few: Ruby, Robin, Archie, Aurora, Mulan, the Frozen cast, the QoD, Cora, Hades, Arthur, Granny, etc.

      4-> Minor Supporting: the rest. Examples include all dwarves other than Grumpy, all the Camelot cast other than Arthur, all the Lost Boys, all the Oz characters, etc.

      There are different, valid criteria. Some based on screentime, others based on actor contracts. Either way, criteria of analysis are only valid if they're not subjective. And basing a criteria on "connection to important storylines" is entirely subjective.

      Or, as I like to call it, another episode of "Fandoms Remain Incapable of Seeing Things Objectively".

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Hook is not a major character in my opinion.  The show and it's storyline would go on without him.  All six seasons have been building to this confrontation with the Black Fairy and the only characters that are truly integral to this are Emma, Rumple, Regina and to a lesser extent Snow and David.  If Emma never met Hook we would still have Emma facing the final battle with the Black Fairy.  IMO any character that could be removed from the show and yet we would still end up with Emma facing the Black Fairy isn't a major character.  Rumple is BF's son and was an integral part of Regina getting the Dark Curse and ensuring that Snow and David's child would be the savior, Regina casted the Dark Curse, Emma was destined to break the Dark Curse and start the Final Battle and Snow and David are the only reason why we have Emma and the only reason why Regina wanted to cast the Dark Curse to begin with.  Hook played NO part in any of that.  

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Technically, one can see which are major and minor storylines. That's not a subjective thing. The subjective thing would be involvement due to varying criteria.

      Like I say, Emma, Regina (and Snow's), Rumple's story is what the show is based upon. It's pretty much all over the advertisment. Evil Queen getting her happy ending, Emma accepting her role, and Rumple finding his son. 

      The question tends to be if there's a heirarchal difference between them and the rest of the main cast. I think at best there's just a semantics argument.

      Ignoring supporting characters, there are major and minor characters. Some may say main and major, but the meaning is still the same.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Both? While he may be a minor character in the sense he isn't one of the "leading heroes" like Emma or Snow (though Snow seems to have taken a back seat), he's more 'major' than the other love interests like Belle or Robin. 

      If you define major character as regular, then he is one.

      He's a major in the sense that he is very important to Emma's development

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Farerb wrote:
      This whole conversation makes me really sad that they turned Henry into an irrelevant character.

      I strongly suspect that is due to Jared Gilmore. He is 16 (nearly 17) and may need time off for school

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Aine1989 wrote:
      Farerb wrote:
      This whole conversation makes me really sad that they turned Henry into an irrelevant character.
      I strongly suspect that is due to Jared Gilmore. He is 16 (nearly 17) and may need time off for school


      Child actor labor laws limit his screentime severely. However, it should be noted that his screentime in season five was the highest and by the looks of it, he'll surpass season five.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • DracoWombat wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      Farerb wrote:
      This whole conversation makes me really sad that they turned Henry into an irrelevant character.
      I strongly suspect that is due to Jared Gilmore. He is 16 (nearly 17) and may need time off for school

      Child actor labor laws limit his screentime severely. However, it should be noted that his screentime in season five was the highest and by the looks of it, he'll surpass season five.

      No way man. Henry's appearences this season cannot beat seasons 1-5 even if he were to get all the remaining episodes based on him. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Henry's role has been severly diminished this season.  In most episodes this season he's been an afterthought.  

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Touli wrote:
      DracoWombat wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      Farerb wrote:
      This whole conversation makes me really sad that they turned Henry into an irrelevant character.
      I strongly suspect that is due to Jared Gilmore. He is 16 (nearly 17) and may need time off for school

      Child actor labor laws limit his screentime severely. However, it should be noted that his screentime in season five was the highest and by the looks of it, he'll surpass season five.
      No way man. Henry's appearences this season cannot beat seasons 1-5 even if he were to get all the remaining episodes based on him. 

      I think they just mean his screentime in s6 is higher than in s5, which is true 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Touli wrote:
      DracoWombat wrote:
      Aine1989 wrote:
      Farerb wrote:
      This whole conversation makes me really sad that they turned Henry into an irrelevant character.
      I strongly suspect that is due to Jared Gilmore. He is 16 (nearly 17) and may need time off for school

      Child actor labor laws limit his screentime severely. However, it should be noted that his screentime in season five was the highest and by the looks of it, he'll surpass season five.
      No way man. Henry's appearences this season cannot beat seasons 1-5 even if he were to get all the remaining episodes based on him. 


      You do realize screentime and episodes are different things, right? Check F3's graphs.

      F3's Season Six Graph

      F3's Season Five Screentime

      Henry's got 116 minutes of screentime up to 6x18; and 160 in the whole of season five. Given that we still have four (Three now, but at the time the graph was made it was still 6x18) episodes worth of screentime to account for, and that Season Five had an extra episode which was Henry-heavy, it's most likely that Henry's screentime will surpass Season Five's.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I feel like even if you view Hook as a 'minor' character, Captain Swan is still a major relationship, in fact in terms of romantic relationships it is probably, right now, the major relationship; he is the main heroince's/the princess' romantic True Love. It is to seasons 3-6 what Snowing was to season 1+2. I suppose you could call him major given how important he is to Emma's development

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Aine1989 wrote: I feel like even if you view Hook as a 'minor' character, Captain Swan is still a major relationship, in fact in terms of romantic relationships it is probably, right now, the major relationship; he is the main heroince's/the princess' romantic True Love. It is to seasons 3-6 what Snowing was to season 1+2. I suppose you could call him major given how important he is to Emma's development

      But that's all there is to him, besides 5A (which shouldn't have been about him), there isn't anything to his character other than that he is Emma's love interest. That's it.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Farerb wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote: I feel like even if you view Hook as a 'minor' character, Captain Swan is still a major relationship, in fact in terms of romantic relationships it is probably, right now, the major relationship; he is the main heroince's/the princess' romantic True Love. It is to seasons 3-6 what Snowing was to season 1+2. I suppose you could call him major given how important he is to Emma's development

      But that's all there is to him, besides 5A (which shouldn't have been about him), there isn't anything to his character other than that he is Emma's love interest. That's it.

      Well there's his parental relationship with Henry and friendhsip with David and (rip) Robin.

      I feel like him being the main lead's love interest sort of bumps him up to at least 'more major than others (especially more so than Robin and Belle)' status.

      And 5A was not just about him, I'd actually say it was more about Emma in terms of development; his death was made about her, it was about her overcoming her fears of moving forward. Really 5x11 was the only Hook episode.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Farerb wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote: I feel like even if you view Hook as a 'minor' character, Captain Swan is still a major relationship, in fact in terms of romantic relationships it is probably, right now, the major relationship; he is the main heroince's/the princess' romantic True Love. It is to seasons 3-6 what Snowing was to season 1+2. I suppose you could call him major given how important he is to Emma's development

      But that's all there is to him, besides 5A (which shouldn't have been about him), there isn't anything to his character other than that he is Emma's love interest. That's it.

      Really? So his whole conflict with Rumple is nothing?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Farerb wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote: I feel like even if you view Hook as a 'minor' character, Captain Swan is still a major relationship, in fact in terms of romantic relationships it is probably, right now, the major relationship; he is the main heroince's/the princess' romantic True Love. It is to seasons 3-6 what Snowing was to season 1+2. I suppose you could call him major given how important he is to Emma's development

      But that's all there is to him, besides 5A (which shouldn't have been about him), there isn't anything to his character other than that he is Emma's love interest. That's it.
      Really? So his whole conflict with Rumple is nothing?

      That conflict was over years ago. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CadoDoan wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Farerb wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote: I feel like even if you view Hook as a 'minor' character, Captain Swan is still a major relationship, in fact in terms of romantic relationships it is probably, right now, the major relationship; he is the main heroince's/the princess' romantic True Love. It is to seasons 3-6 what Snowing was to season 1+2. I suppose you could call him major given how important he is to Emma's development

      But that's all there is to him, besides 5A (which shouldn't have been about him), there isn't anything to his character other than that he is Emma's love interest. That's it.
      Really? So his whole conflict with Rumple is nothing?

      That conflict was over years ago. 

      They keep bringing it up as if it is still a thing. However, isn't Hook a "grown" character?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:

      Farerb wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote: I feel like even if you view Hook as a 'minor' character, Captain Swan is still a major relationship, in fact in terms of romantic relationships it is probably, right now, the major relationship; he is the main heroince's/the princess' romantic True Love. It is to seasons 3-6 what Snowing was to season 1+2. I suppose you could call him major given how important he is to Emma's development

      But that's all there is to him, besides 5A (which shouldn't have been about him), there isn't anything to his character other than that he is Emma's love interest. That's it.

      Really? So his whole conflict with Rumple is nothing?

      You know, maybe you would have gotten less snarky comments and less fighting if your replies would been more sincere and not "I'm gonna show you!" Vibe. Food for thought.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Farerb wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:


      Farerb wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote: I feel like even if you view Hook as a 'minor' character, Captain Swan is still a major relationship, in fact in terms of romantic relationships it is probably, right now, the major relationship; he is the main heroince's/the princess' romantic True Love. It is to seasons 3-6 what Snowing was to season 1+2. I suppose you could call him major given how important he is to Emma's development

      But that's all there is to him, besides 5A (which shouldn't have been about him), there isn't anything to his character other than that he is Emma's love interest. That's it.
      Really? So his whole conflict with Rumple is nothing?
      You know, maybe you would have gotten less snarky comments and less fighting if your replies would been more sincere and not "I'm gonna show you!" Vibe. Food for thought.

      So you can snark about the show as much as you want, but no one else is allowed to? I don't think so, sweety. And I am being sincere. That is a sincere point. Hook and Rumple and their past is a major plot point. We can't just ignore it.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote: Hook and Rumple and their past is a major plot point. We can't just ignore it.

      Hook past with Rumple was less of a major plot point than Cora's past with Rumple, Belle's past with Rumple, Neal Past with Rumple, Blue past with Rumple, QOD past with Rumple, etc. If we argue everyone who has a past with Rumple on screen is a major character than danm near all the characters are major characters. Hook's past with Rumple is only a major plot point to Hook but not to the whole show. It was only important in season 2. 


      Hook had a role to play and at one point it was important but I wouldn't classify his past with Rumple as a major plot point. Rumple past with Hook had no real impact on his life. It didn't set him on the path of becoming the dark one, and it didn't set him on casting the curse either. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:

      Farerb wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:


      Farerb wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote: I feel like even if you view Hook as a 'minor' character, Captain Swan is still a major relationship, in fact in terms of romantic relationships it is probably, right now, the major relationship; he is the main heroince's/the princess' romantic True Love. It is to seasons 3-6 what Snowing was to season 1+2. I suppose you could call him major given how important he is to Emma's development

      But that's all there is to him, besides 5A (which shouldn't have been about him), there isn't anything to his character other than that he is Emma's love interest. That's it.
      Really? So his whole conflict with Rumple is nothing?
      You know, maybe you would have gotten less snarky comments and less fighting if your replies would been more sincere and not "I'm gonna show you!" Vibe. Food for thought.

      So you can snark about the show as much as you want, but no one else is allowed to? I don't think so, sweety. And I am being sincere. That is a sincere point. Hook and Rumple and their past is a major plot point. We can't just ignore it.

      Being snarky at the show != Being snarky at users. By the way I wasn't snarky at the show this time, I actually think that Hook hasn't developed as a character since season 4 (is there anything different about him?) It's always revenge, kisses, lies, angst in a cycle.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • KnocknickKnock wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote: Hook and Rumple and their past is a major plot point. We can't just ignore it.
      Hook past with Rumple was less of a major plot point than Cora's past with Rumple, Belle's past with Rumple, Neal Past with Rumple, Blue past with Rumple, QOD past with Rumple, etc. If we argue everyone who has a past with Rumple on screen is a major character than danm near all the characters are major characters. Hook's past with Rumple is only a major plot point to Hook but not to the whole show. It was only important in season 2. 


      Hook had a role to play and at one point it was important but I wouldn't classify his past with Rumple as a major plot point. Rumple past with Hook had no real impact on his life. It didn't set him on the path of becoming the dark one, and it didn't set him on casting the curse either. 

      The reason Rumple killed his wife (and Bae's mother) is pretty major. Remember, this is the major conflict between Hook and Rumple: Milah. That and from a traditional story sense, Rumple is the Crocodile that "eats" Hook's hand, thus making him Captain Hook.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Farerb wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:

      Farerb wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:


      Farerb wrote:

      Aine1989 wrote: I feel like even if you view Hook as a 'minor' character, Captain Swan is still a major relationship, in fact in terms of romantic relationships it is probably, right now, the major relationship; he is the main heroince's/the princess' romantic True Love. It is to seasons 3-6 what Snowing was to season 1+2. I suppose you could call him major given how important he is to Emma's development

      But that's all there is to him, besides 5A (which shouldn't have been about him), there isn't anything to his character other than that he is Emma's love interest. That's it.
      Really? So his whole conflict with Rumple is nothing?
      You know, maybe you would have gotten less snarky comments and less fighting if your replies would been more sincere and not "I'm gonna show you!" Vibe. Food for thought.
      So you can snark about the show as much as you want, but no one else is allowed to? I don't think so, sweety. And I am being sincere. That is a sincere point. Hook and Rumple and their past is a major plot point. We can't just ignore it.

      Being snarky at the show != Being snarky at users. By the way I wasn't snarky at the show this time, I actually think that Hook hasn't developed as a character since season 4 (is there anything different about him?) It's always revenge, kisses, lies, angst in a cycle.

      Hook doesn't change a ton, but he definitly becomes less "rouge" and more "refined" as the seasons go on. The characters in present day (besides Emma and Regina) don't really change though from where they were in Season 1 (ignoring the cursed personas). It's more comparing them in present day VS flashbacks, and there we see big shifts in almost all the characters.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:

      KnocknickKnock wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote: Hook and Rumple and their past is a major plot point. We can't just ignore it.
      Hook past with Rumple was less of a major plot point than Cora's past with Rumple, Belle's past with Rumple, Neal Past with Rumple, Blue past with Rumple, QOD past with Rumple, etc. If we argue everyone who has a past with Rumple on screen is a major character than danm near all the characters are major characters. Hook's past with Rumple is only a major plot point to Hook but not to the whole show. It was only important in season 2. 


      Hook had a role to play and at one point it was important but I wouldn't classify his past with Rumple as a major plot point. Rumple past with Hook had no real impact on his life. It didn't set him on the path of becoming the dark one, and it didn't set him on casting the curse either. 

      The reason Rumple killed his wife (and Bae's mother) is pretty major. Remember, this is the major conflict between Hook and Rumple: Milah. That and from a traditional story sense, Rumple is the Crocodile that "eats" Hook's hand, thus making him Captain Hook.

      It should not serve any purpose now, Hook has moved on, Rumple has moved on, they're "family" (even though everyone forgets that Rumple is Henry's grandfather). The only reason they hang on to it is because of bad writing and these two characters being assholes. But mostly, Hook's character revolves around being Emma's love interest and nothing more, his interaction with David and Henry, which is like one episode each, are directly related to them being Emma's family, otherwise he wouldn't have given a damn, even his fueds with Rumple are related to Emma, "I want my hand back so I can grab her" etc...

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Farerb wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:

      KnocknickKnock wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote: Hook and Rumple and their past is a major plot point. We can't just ignore it.
      Hook past with Rumple was less of a major plot point than Cora's past with Rumple, Belle's past with Rumple, Neal Past with Rumple, Blue past with Rumple, QOD past with Rumple, etc. If we argue everyone who has a past with Rumple on screen is a major character than danm near all the characters are major characters. Hook's past with Rumple is only a major plot point to Hook but not to the whole show. It was only important in season 2. 


      Hook had a role to play and at one point it was important but I wouldn't classify his past with Rumple as a major plot point. Rumple past with Hook had no real impact on his life. It didn't set him on the path of becoming the dark one, and it didn't set him on casting the curse either. 

      The reason Rumple killed his wife (and Bae's mother) is pretty major. Remember, this is the major conflict between Hook and Rumple: Milah. That and from a traditional story sense, Rumple is the Crocodile that "eats" Hook's hand, thus making him Captain Hook.

      It should not serve any purpose now, Hook has moved on, Rumple has moved on, they're "family" (even though everyone forgets that Rumple is Henry's grandfather). The only reason they hang on to it is because of bad writing and these two characters being assholes. But mostly, Hook's character revolves around being Emma's love interest and nothing more, his interaction with David and Henry, which is like one episode each, are directly related to them being Emma's family, otherwise he wouldn't have given a damn, even his fueds with Rumple are related to Emma, "I want my hand back so I can grab her" etc...

      Just because it isn't a current plot point, doesn't mean it isn't an important plot point. Otherwise, hardly anything would be an important plot point. Plot points stay important if at any point in the narative they were important.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:

      Farerb wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:

      KnocknickKnock wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote: Hook and Rumple and their past is a major plot point. We can't just ignore it.
      Hook past with Rumple was less of a major plot point than Cora's past with Rumple, Belle's past with Rumple, Neal Past with Rumple, Blue past with Rumple, QOD past with Rumple, etc. If we argue everyone who has a past with Rumple on screen is a major character than danm near all the characters are major characters. Hook's past with Rumple is only a major plot point to Hook but not to the whole show. It was only important in season 2. 


      Hook had a role to play and at one point it was important but I wouldn't classify his past with Rumple as a major plot point. Rumple past with Hook had no real impact on his life. It didn't set him on the path of becoming the dark one, and it didn't set him on casting the curse either. 

      The reason Rumple killed his wife (and Bae's mother) is pretty major. Remember, this is the major conflict between Hook and Rumple: Milah. That and from a traditional story sense, Rumple is the Crocodile that "eats" Hook's hand, thus making him Captain Hook.

      It should not serve any purpose now, Hook has moved on, Rumple has moved on, they're "family" (even though everyone forgets that Rumple is Henry's grandfather). The only reason they hang on to it is because of bad writing and these two characters being assholes. But mostly, Hook's character revolves around being Emma's love interest and nothing more, his interaction with David and Henry, which is like one episode each, are directly related to them being Emma's family, otherwise he wouldn't have given a damn, even his fueds with Rumple are related to Emma, "I want my hand back so I can grab her" etc...

      Just because it isn't a current plot point, doesn't mean it isn't an important plot point. Otherwise, hardly anything would be an important plot point. Plot points stay important if at any point in the narative they were important.

      Any plot point before the current season is pointless. Lily who? Merlin who?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Farerb wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:

      Farerb wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:


      KnocknickKnock wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote: Hook and Rumple and their past is a major plot point. We can't just ignore it.
      Hook past with Rumple was less of a major plot point than Cora's past with Rumple, Belle's past with Rumple, Neal Past with Rumple, Blue past with Rumple, QOD past with Rumple, etc. If we argue everyone who has a past with Rumple on screen is a major character than danm near all the characters are major characters. Hook's past with Rumple is only a major plot point to Hook but not to the whole show. It was only important in season 2. 


      Hook had a role to play and at one point it was important but I wouldn't classify his past with Rumple as a major plot point. Rumple past with Hook had no real impact on his life. It didn't set him on the path of becoming the dark one, and it didn't set him on casting the curse either. 

      The reason Rumple killed his wife (and Bae's mother) is pretty major. Remember, this is the major conflict between Hook and Rumple: Milah. That and from a traditional story sense, Rumple is the Crocodile that "eats" Hook's hand, thus making him Captain Hook.
      It should not serve any purpose now, Hook has moved on, Rumple has moved on, they're "family" (even though everyone forgets that Rumple is Henry's grandfather). The only reason they hang on to it is because of bad writing and these two characters being assholes. But mostly, Hook's character revolves around being Emma's love interest and nothing more, his interaction with David and Henry, which is like one episode each, are directly related to them being Emma's family, otherwise he wouldn't have given a damn, even his fueds with Rumple are related to Emma, "I want my hand back so I can grab her" etc...
      Just because it isn't a current plot point, doesn't mean it isn't an important plot point. Otherwise, hardly anything would be an important plot point. Plot points stay important if at any point in the narative they were important.

      Any plot point before the current season is pointless. Lily who? Merlin who?

      I'm starting to see the problem. You just don't understand how serialized stories work. Just because all 200+ characters are not mentioned in every episode, doesn't mean that were not important to the plot.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:

      Farerb wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:

      Farerb wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:


      KnocknickKnock wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote: Hook and Rumple and their past is a major plot point. We can't just ignore it.
      Hook past with Rumple was less of a major plot point than Cora's past with Rumple, Belle's past with Rumple, Neal Past with Rumple, Blue past with Rumple, QOD past with Rumple, etc. If we argue everyone who has a past with Rumple on screen is a major character than danm near all the characters are major characters. Hook's past with Rumple is only a major plot point to Hook but not to the whole show. It was only important in season 2. 


      Hook had a role to play and at one point it was important but I wouldn't classify his past with Rumple as a major plot point. Rumple past with Hook had no real impact on his life. It didn't set him on the path of becoming the dark one, and it didn't set him on casting the curse either. 

      The reason Rumple killed his wife (and Bae's mother) is pretty major. Remember, this is the major conflict between Hook and Rumple: Milah. That and from a traditional story sense, Rumple is the Crocodile that "eats" Hook's hand, thus making him Captain Hook.
      It should not serve any purpose now, Hook has moved on, Rumple has moved on, they're "family" (even though everyone forgets that Rumple is Henry's grandfather). The only reason they hang on to it is because of bad writing and these two characters being assholes. But mostly, Hook's character revolves around being Emma's love interest and nothing more, his interaction with David and Henry, which is like one episode each, are directly related to them being Emma's family, otherwise he wouldn't have given a damn, even his fueds with Rumple are related to Emma, "I want my hand back so I can grab her" etc...
      Just because it isn't a current plot point, doesn't mean it isn't an important plot point. Otherwise, hardly anything would be an important plot point. Plot points stay important if at any point in the narative they were important.

      Any plot point before the current season is pointless. Lily who? Merlin who?

      I'm starting to see the problem. You just don't understand how serialized stories work. Just because all 200+ characters are not mentioned in every episode, doesn't mean that were not important to the plot.

      I'm sorry, I should have phrased it differently, Baby snatching and "potential for darkness" had no effect on Emma post 4B, Hook murdering Merlin has no effect on Hook or anyone post 5B. You would think that this major plot points will be relevant to these characters, but they are treated as if they have never happened, thus irrelevant and pointless.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Farerb wrote:

      I'm sorry, I should have phrased it differently, Baby snatching and "potential for darkness" had no effect on Emma post 4B, Hook murdering Merlin has no effect on Hook or anyone post 5B. You would think that this major plot points will be relevant to these characters, but they are treated as if they have never happened, thus irrelevant and pointless.

      I mean, I think that is just the nature of serialized fiction. I'm sure I could find examples like that in anything serialized.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • A Spy in the Mirror
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