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  • Questions:

    - Why did Emma wear this nun shirt?

    - Why is everyone a bitch to Mary Margaret?

    - How could this mcguffin flower grow in a land without magic?

    - Why does it have the ability to break THE CURSE OF ALL CURSES when it was prophesized that Emma is the only one who could do it?

    - Do the writers want me to give them season 1 dvd? I have two copies, I can give them one.

    - Why is it so hard to believe Hook has an obsession about someone else? He spent centuries avenging his previous paramore?

    - Why didn't Snowing raise Emma until she was 28 and then bring her to Storybrooke in order to break the curse?

    - Is there anything this flower can't do?

    - Why did Emma choose to go to Hook and not wake her parents?

    - Why Tiger Lily stayed behind where a bunch of kids want to kill her?

    - Why did Hook propose where Emma's dying parents are right next to them?

    - Are the people who came to the town hall the only people who remained in this town?

    - If it was a long time ago why was David so upset few episodes earlier? (This is why people complain that Hook doesn't have to face consequences for what he did).

    - He has his mother in him, but where is his mother? Why haven't they talked just the two of them? I mean Gideon has mommy issues that Belle can fix them.

    - What about Snowing's baby? Why isn't he being taken into consideration when they decide to "sacrifice" themselves for Emma's BF?

    - Why the gang never thought to look for the magic flower in season 2 when Emma and Snow were in the EF or in season 3 when Henry was in Neverland or in season 5 when Emma was in Camelot? I mean obviously the writers who planned this since the pilot (final battle blah blah) would know about this huge plot point mcguffin flower in advance and would have used it accordingly, no?!

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    • Well, a lot of those answers are practically related to the fact that there's often alot of plot contrivance, that their magic system is broken to a degree, and convenience. 

      To answer the answerable questions,

      Hook having love would be different from having an obsession about killing someone. Simple as that. Hook also didn't know Snow and David were asleep there (not dying). I don't particularly favor Hook, but he did nothing wrong. Emma chose to save Hook because her parents told her too. Plus, she knew that they would find some other way to save them. (At the rate those flowers were sprouting, they'd probably get another one, lol).

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    • - How could this mcguffin flower grow in a land without magic? It was clearly explained in the episode. The pixie flowers grow in presence of the darkest magic. The Dark Curse IS the darkest magic we've seen up until the Black Fairy came, and the curse's magic IS present in Storybrooke throughout the 28 years (it still is). Besides, it is not any mcguffin, it has been used in previous arcs.

      - Why does it have the ability to break THE CURSE OF ALL CURSES when it was prophesized that Emma is the only one who could do it? The flower does not have the ability to break the Dark Curse, it just counters the memory wiping magic. They were still trapped in Storybrooke and frozen in time. They wouldn't have aged or been able to be happy.

      - Why is it so hard to believe Hook has an obsession about someone else? He spent centuries avenging his previous paramore? There's a big difference between seeking revenge for a lost cause and seeking to be reunited with a living person.

      - Why didn't Snowing raise Emma until she was 28 and then bring her to Storybrooke in order to break the curse? Why didn't you tell them they could? Because no one did. They had no way to know that they'd even be transported to a town in a different world. For all they knew, they could just get trapped inside a dandellion or a snowflake.

      - Is there anything this flower can't do? It can't break the Dark Curse, and quite possibly it can't break the Sleeping Curse either.

      - Why did Emma choose to go to Hook and not wake her parents? Because unlike her parents, she is a selfish person. Always has been and always will be. I'm not criticizing the character, but all she's done so far was in her best interest and nobody else's.

      - Why Tiger Lily stayed behind where a bunch of kids want to kill her? Because the door closed to quickly, or because she didn't care.

      - Are the people who came to the town hall the only people who remained in this town? No, they are not. They're the ammount of people Regina calculated would be necessary for the Sleeping Curse not to have any permanent effect when shared.

      - If it was a long time ago why was David so upset few episodes earlier? People change their minds all the time. David has been alone for some weeks now, and he doesn't wish Emma to suffer the same thing, so he put his daughter's happiness first.

      - He has his mother in him, but where is his mother? Why haven't they talked just the two of them? I mean Gideon has mommy issues that Belle can fix them. Gideon's free will is extremely limited by the Black Fairy.

      - What about Snowing's baby? Why isn't he being taken into consideration when they decide to "sacrifice" themselves for Emma's BF? They're not sacrificing themselves for Emma's bf, but rather Emma herself. They know their baby will be well cared for, and it's not like the weren't ready to give up their first baby for the good of others.

      - Why the gang never thought to look for the magic flower in season 2 when Emma and Snow were in the EF or in season 3 when Henry was in Neverland or in season 5 when Emma was in Camelot? The magic flower only grows in the presence of extremely Dark Magic, that which not even the power of all the combined Dark Ones compares to.

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    • The Dark Curse has been used 3 times though. And the flower didn't appear in 3B or 5A.


      Also, Snow and Charming kissed and that should have broken the Dark Curse, right?

      I mean Regina/Henry broke it in 3B with a kiss, and Regina was cursed at that point and she is not a savior

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    • Yeah, and that whole Dark Ones uprising didn't create one single flower? But what bothers me is that it never occur to them to even look for the flower. In addition, wasn't dark magic created when Nimueh corrupted the power of the grail or something?

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    • The flower appears due to evil, dark magic wielding people. Regina summoned one, Black Fairy summoned a whole field. I'm guessing that in canon the other villains weren't that much more evil and magical than Regina. Or they died due to the random wintry weather.

      Every kiss isn't TLK. There must be some sort of sacrifice or willingness to sacrifice involved, or going the extra mile. Regina broke the curse because "the extra mile thing" which includes the idea that she intended to break the curse. Thus Snow and David didn't break the Dark Curse. If David was somehow dying of pixie-dust-itis and there was no earthly cure and Snow kissed him during the curse with her memories intact, I'm certain that the curse would likely break. (Or Rumple specifically made the first curse to be Emma-exclusive.)

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    • Farerb wrote: Yeah, and that whole Dark Ones uprising didn't create one single flower? But what bothers me is that it never occur to them to even look for the flower. In addition, wasn't dark magic created when Nimueh corrupted the power of the grail or something?

      They were GHOSTS!

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    • Farerb wrote:
      Yeah, and that whole Dark Ones uprising didn't create one single flower? But what bothers me is that it never occur to them to even look for the flower. In addition, wasn't dark magic created when Nimueh corrupted the power of the grail or something?

      Well...they were sort of visiting ghosts for like half and hour. XD The only thing that bothered me is that this feels like a one-off macguffin. If they have it in future episodes, then I'll be satisfied. A "going forward" retcon is better than a "one-off" macguffin.

      That was always fishy anyway. I don't see how the HG began magic when the gods do some kind of magic. We know very little about the Age of Merlin. Magic clearly existed as Merlin knew what it was. I think they mean Dark One magic and the teachings of Dark Magic. Like Rumple spread dark magic by teaching Cora etc. So, I take Black as saying that she essentially created the basis of nearly all the Dark Magic spells (which I take to be tossing superlatives everywhere as Black as far as we know turned dark after giving birth to Rumple which is after the DO came about). 

      Or Black Fairy means she creates Black fairy dust which is the source of all dark magic (fuel).

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    • The Dark Curse has been used 3 times though. And the flower didn't appear in 3B or 5A. Except the first time it had been active for a decade, everyone was miserable, frozen in time, with no real memories of who they were and with no hope whatsoever at a better life. Meanwhile, the second and third curses were only used for transportation and limited memory loss. Clearly, the first one was much, much darker.

      Also, Snow and Charming kissed and that should have broken the Dark Curse, right? I mean Regina/Henry broke it in 3B with a kiss, and Regina was cursed at that point and she is not a savior No, that is not how True Love's Kiss work, nor how the Dark Curse does. Only the offspring of Snow and Charming could break the curse, not them, not anybody else.

      Not only was the second curse much weaker than the first one, but Henry is technically the product of Snow and Charming's True Love to a lesser extent than Emma, so the True Love he shared with Regina was still originating at least partially from Snow and Charming's blood.

      Each time, the TLK that broke the curse involved at least one person who wasn't cursed and which was a product of Snow and Charming's True Love. Both Mary Margaret and David were cursed when they kissed in Storybrooke. That's like two sleeping curse victims trying to wake each other, or two Dark Ones kissing the darkness away from one other. The curse's Saviour was meant to come to Storybrooke when it was time for the curse to be broken.

      Another possible explanation is that Henry (or his very forehead for that matter) was marked by the breaking of the first curse, and that the way to break later enactments of the curse would be to kiss the same forehead true love.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      Every kiss isn't TLK. There must be some sort of sacrifice or willingness to sacrifice involved, or going the extra mile. Regina broke the curse because "the extra mile thing" which includes the idea that she intended to break the curse. Thus Snow and David didn't break the Dark Curse. If David was somehow dying of pixie-dust-itis and there was no earthly cure and Snow kissed him during the curse with her memories intact, I'm certain that the curse would likely break. (Or Rumple specifically made the first curse to be Emma-exclusive.)

      Belle and Rumple's kiss was about the break the Dark One curse in 1x12 and there was no sacrife whatsoever.

      Same with Gideon and Belle's kiss in 6x01

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    • 8Rob wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Every kiss isn't TLK. There must be some sort of sacrifice or willingness to sacrifice involved, or going the extra mile. Regina broke the curse because "the extra mile thing" which includes the idea that she intended to break the curse. Thus Snow and David didn't break the Dark Curse. If David was somehow dying of pixie-dust-itis and there was no earthly cure and Snow kissed him during the curse with her memories intact, I'm certain that the curse would likely break. (Or Rumple specifically made the first curse to be Emma-exclusive.)
      Belle and Rumple's kiss was about the break the Dark One curse in 1x12 and there was no sacrife whatsoever.

      Same with Gideon and Belle's kiss in 6x01

      It was going the extra mile and iwith the intention on breaking a curse. So, I'll restate what I said in a better way.

      TLK is:

      A. Sacrifice, or

      B. Intending to break the curse, or

      C. "Going the extra mile" vagueness 

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    • Belle and Rumple's kiss in 1x12 had no sacrifice whatsoever? Giving up magic is not a price for Rumple?

      Gideon and Belle's kiss had no price? Belle cursed herself so that she wouldn't give birth to Gideon and he couldn't be taken from her. That's exactly what happened as soon as he woke her up.

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    • Farerb wrote:
      In addition, wasn't dark magic created when Nimueh corrupted the power of the grail or something?

      I don't know if they did mess up with this but I think of it in this way.

      The Black Fairy is a supernatural creature, while with Nimue we have the first manifestation of pure dark magic coming from the Grail, and also dark magic coming directly from a human. She created the DO curse but we know there was some dark presence before, as we see with Vortigan.

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    • I have negative thoughts, but I'll only express one as i feel that it is more reasonable and objective.

      There were too many macguffins. Anyone that follows my train of thought know that I try (with others) to put a magic system around the puddle of ideas that the writers give us. Does Once have a magic system? Yes. It's just pretty "as the plot turns". This episode exemplifies this. I'll go through them.

      1. Shadow tree sap--- Makes no sense. Completely made up. Technically, it could make sense, but Pan didn't need it as he had magic. The tree should have been specified. All that was said was "Duh, that tree over there is where Pan kept his magic! Go get it to go home!" Then, Hook somehow knows to rip off his shadow. This is a poor macguffin because it was never explained whatsoever in the episode. Noone can realy present an argument against this. The "fans could figure it out" argument only goes so far. This is the fiftieth magic tree this show has had. How would anyone know what it does? 

      2. Short wand. Actually, pretty fine. I wish that they actually didn't Chekov's gun Black Fairy with an ultra-convenient weapon. This is almost as bad as the Olympian crystal which popped out of nowhere and axed Hades and then was gone. If you want to do a Chekov's gun at least do what they did to Ingrid with Gerda's letter.

      3. Pixie dust. Suddenly it's pink. In Once's magic, it is pausible that pixie dust can do all in its power to connect true loves, even portals. The issue isn't "where was the flower?" It is that it is vague magic that can do everything. If that is the case, then is True Love really the strongest magic of all. I give it a pass in how it works, but the way it appears (whenever great darkness/dark magic appears) means that it would be all too common to have this very power magic. I guess it's equal to a genie sale.

      4. Silver cup. I don't know any reason for that cup to be used to free Snow and David. I guess they didn't want everyone to kiss Snow and David, but there had to be a better way than "Cheers, to the Charmings!"

      5. Rumple with a convenient potion. Get this man away from vague potions. 

      On another note, as I discussed in an explanation of my grade report, that in a relatively objective sense, a lot of the dialogue was transparent (you can see the plot's gears turning) and some was just terrible. "Get the pirate. Make him pay." The Rescue scene was pretty poorly done. I'll recap with near exact dialogue.

      Scene begins. Emma bursts in through a portal. They cried out each others name. 

      Hook: What are you doing? Run, now!  (no pauses, just straight through towards TL, but talking to Emma prior)

      A tuffle buffle, Emma reaches Hook.

      Emma: We've got to go!

      Lost Boys: "Where is she? Where's TigerLily? She got away! (all in three to four seconds seconds)

      That scene was super rushed. (All of this dialogue and action happens in like 15 seconds)

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    • I'd like to know how the Lost Boys on the island were aware of Pan's death. Did they assume he "died" after Regina had ripped out Henry's heart from Pan?

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    • The only thing im struggling with in this episode is Regina during the Dark Curse. I mean did she just forget that she thought Snow and David were awake? They kinda like skipped over that after she's in the middle of the woods screaming "Where is Snow White"? This may be a minute point but its hard to imagine that Regina just let that go and lived the next 18 years with no question of the events that day!

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    • HRHPrincessSierra wrote:
      The only thing im struggling with in this episode is Regina during the Dark Curse. I mean did she just forget that she thought Snow and David were awake? They kinda like skipped over that after she's in the middle of the woods screaming "Where is Snow White"? This may be a minute point but its hard to imagine that Regina just let that go and lived the next 18 years with no question of the events that day!

      It's bad mostly because there was no follow-up. How could they have Regina yell, "Where is Snow White?!" when she was always careful like when she went to Archie and made sure she didn't refer to herself as a Queen. At that rate, Henry would have no problem proving Regina was the Evil Queen, lol.

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    • Applegirl wrote:
      I'd like to know how the Lost Boys on the island were aware of Pan's death. Did they assume he "died" after Regina had ripped out Henry's heart from Pan?

      They probably received some message considering world-crossing is much easier now lol 

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    • Killian Jones wrote:
      Belle and Rumple's kiss in 1x12 had no sacrifice whatsoever? Giving up magic is not a price for Rumple?

      But Rumple didn't have that intention. He wasn't willing to make that sacrifice

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      HRHPrincessSierra wrote:
      The only thing im struggling with in this episode is Regina during the Dark Curse. I mean did she just forget that she thought Snow and David were awake? They kinda like skipped over that after she's in the middle of the woods screaming "Where is Snow White"? This may be a minute point but its hard to imagine that Regina just let that go and lived the next 18 years with no question of the events that day!
      It's bad mostly because there was no follow-up. How could they have Regina yell, "Where is Snow White?!" when she was always careful like when she went to Archie and made sure she didn't refer to herself as a Queen. At that rate, Henry would have no problem proving Regina was the Evil Queen, lol.

      Exactly! I didnt really want or need a full scene to resolve that but something to explain what happened to Regina's after that would have been great, I guess we'll just have to leave that up to our own imaginations XD

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    • 8Rob wrote:

      Killian Jones wrote:
      Belle and Rumple's kiss in 1x12 had no sacrifice whatsoever? Giving up magic is not a price for Rumple?

      But Rumple didn't have that intention. He wasn't willing to make that sacrifice

      And that is exactly why the kiss didn't work.

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    • HRHPrincessSierra wrote: The only thing im struggling with in this episode is Regina during the Dark Curse. I mean did she just forget that she thought Snow and David were awake? They kinda like skipped over that after she's in the middle of the woods screaming "Where is Snow White"? This may be a minute point but its hard to imagine that Regina just let that go and lived the next 18 years with no question of the events that day!


      She ONLY susupected that MMB got back her memories and she didn't saw David awake, so she bought whole story about sleepwaking. Simple.

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    • Yeah, besides, they were still under the curse for almost two more decades. After a couple of months seeing as nothing changed, Regina would stop worrying.

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    • Killian Jones wrote: Yeah, besides, they were still under the curse for almost two more decades. After a couple of months seeing as nothing changed, Regina would stop worrying.

      THAT'S what I am talking about. She thought that that behaviour was long lost and brief echo of SW in MMB.

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    • Michu1945 wrote:

      HRHPrincessSierra wrote: The only thing im struggling with in this episode is Regina during the Dark Curse. I mean did she just forget that she thought Snow and David were awake? They kinda like skipped over that after she's in the middle of the woods screaming "Where is Snow White"? This may be a minute point but its hard to imagine that Regina just let that go and lived the next 18 years with no question of the events that day!


      She ONLY susupected that MMB got back her memories and she didn't saw David awake, so she bought whole story about sleepwaking. Simple.

      I dont know. The Regina I remember from Dark Curse days was not so forgiving and definitely did not like being decieved so im having a hard time believing that she just bought that story and let it go

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    • Even if you're right and Regina didn't let it go on her own, she forgot everything when she adopted Henry and drank that memory potion. "She'll only forget her worries. Her troubles. Her fears. And with those gone, she and her prince can indeed finally live happily ever after."

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    • Yes I agree once she adopted Henry she didnt remember those events I can accpet that, its just the 8 years in between but as I said before this is a minute point, so ill let it be 

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    • I'm still trying to understand why Gold cared about the town being cursed at all? Gold couldn't care less about leaving Granny and dwarves cursed forever if that was the price for leaving town

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    • Gold wanted things to go as he foresaw.

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    • I thought the flower was far too convenient even by OUAT's standard! If the flower was that capable of reviving certain people from the curse, then the weight of Emma being The Saviour isn't quite as important as it was made out to be.

      I don't quite know how I feel about Snow and Charming leaving Emma again. They seem so happy to keep sacrificing her happiness for the sake of the town, which I get but it also irks me a bit. She is their daughter. They need to start putting her first a bit more.

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    • The major issue was that the flower's description was pretty vague and gives the impression that it is often. With any magic or sciences thing the best way to utilize it is when the audience knows what it can't do. It fits within Once magic stuff but is too powerful and vague to be one off. To be fair to the dust, if Blck Fairy dust made the curse, then Pixie dust breaking the curse's hold isn't far fetched.

      Snow and David have always sacrificed THIER happiness for others. They sacrificed themselves being free so that Emma could save Hook. I can't see how they didn't put their daughter first in that case. It is a mark of a hero to put anyone's happiness above your own, which is what makes Snow and David decent heroes.

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    • Killian Jones wrote:

      8Rob wrote:

      Killian Jones wrote:
      Belle and Rumple's kiss in 1x12 had no sacrifice whatsoever? Giving up magic is not a price for Rumple?
      But Rumple didn't have that intention. He wasn't willing to make that sacrifice
      And that is exactly why the kiss didn't work.

      ???

      The kiss was working

      But then Rumple realising what was happening 

      What I meant is that Rumple didn't kiss Belle with the intention of giving up his power, and the kiss was working anyway

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    • I don't think your point is logical. The kiss was working because they truly loved each other and because there was a curse to break, regardless of their intention. For the kiss to actually free Rumple from the curse it would have required an enormous sacrifice from his part. He wasn't willing to give it up, and therefore the kiss didn't work.

      So yeah, I don't see why you complain that almost breaking a curse needs no sacrifice. It is actually breaking a curse what needs sacrifice.

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    • I can answer a few of these

      -Why did Emma wear this nun shirt?

      Because she wanted to, it's a nice shirt, why is this a problem?

      - Why is everyone a bitch to Mary Margaret?

      I think it's because the curse was built to make Snow/MM miserable.

      - How could this mcguffin flower grow in a land without magic?

      Because plot.

      - Why does it have the ability to break THE CURSE OF ALL CURSES when it was prophesized that Emma is the only one who could do it?

      It didn't really break it, it only did for 2 people. Emma had to break it for everyone.

      - Why is it so hard to believe Hook has an obsession about someone else? He spent centuries avenging his previous paramore?

      Because back then he was cut-throat and ruthless and seemed to only care about himself. Also he loves Emma, not an obsession

      - Why didn't Snowing raise Emma until she was 28 and then bring her to Storybrooke in order to break the curse?

      I think if they escaped, Regina would notice and take it out on the townspeople.

      - Why did Emma choose to go to Hook and not wake her parents?

      Because Hook was in more danger.

      - Why Tiger Lily stayed behind where a bunch of kids want to kill her?

      Because she's a WOC on ouat.

      - Why did Hook propose where Emma's dying parents are right next to them?

      Not like he knew! And they were not dying!

      - What about Snowing's baby? Why isn't he being taken into consideration when they decide to "sacrifice" themselves for Emma's BF?

      He's probably being looked after by Granny, who has been more of a parent to him than they have, Again, Hook was the one in danger of actually dying. Snowing would have been alive but asleep.

      - Why the gang never thought to look for the magic flower in season 2 when Emma and Snow were in the EF or in season 3 when Henry was in Neverland or in season 5 when Emma was in Camelot? I mean obviously the writers who planned this since the pilot (final battle blah blah) would know about this huge plot point mcguffin flower in advance and would have used it accordingly, no?!

      Again, because plot! And lbr, the writers are making up this plot as they go along.

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    • A Spy in the Mirror
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