And one could argue that Regina was abusive though people can say the same for any parent that actually disciplines their child. She may have had unconventional methods or seemed heartless but I actually can understand. I'd rather have a child who'd conquer their fears at a young age than one who grew up and fell apart because their fears weren't resolved or always had to be coddled.
I won't say it's the best method, but it's effective and it works.
Not to mention, most of the bad things Regina did as a mother were in the early seasons and they're not excusable, but since then she has grown. That is a fact.
Did you just call abuse "effective"? Seriously?
And given her neglect of Henry in 4x03, I'd say she hasn't grown. She has just stopped abusing Henry in that way because she has no need to.
I'll go with what we know.
1. Regina was a helicopter mom as her mom was. Relatively rigid, overprotective, and over-involved in their child's everything. People like this exist. Are they terrible? No, not necessarily.
2. Henry was in a faze, unaware of the strange things going on. Upon entering 5th grade, Henry noticed the weird curse-like state of Storybrooke. Regina lied to him to cover that up. Henry kept on pursuing, so she sent him to Dr. Hopper so he could convinve Henry that those ieas make no sense.
3. Regina's state of love was ambiguous. She used him as a tool to manipulate Emma and it's obviously wrong.
4. She state she loves him, tries to change for him and fails. She realizes that she should let Henry go. (and he went with David, later, Emma.)
5. She tries again, stumbling over her efforts. She realizes she has to change for Henry.
6. She goes to Neverland, because she realizes she has to fight for Henry.
7. During the Missing Year and so on, she realizes what life is like without Henry.
8. She give True Love's Kiss to Henry.
If you think going from twistedly loving Henry to truely loving Henry isn't development, then there's no way to have a reasonable discussion with the canonical points presented. One can argue it should have been different or that it wasn't subjectively good, but development is development.
Regina not wanting Henry to see her in a weak state, while bad, isn't inhumane. He's staying with Emma and when Henry comes over, she welcomes him in. She didn't shut to door on him or ignore him. Often writing makes question chioces when they have her say things that sort exclude Henry from her happiness in a signifcant way, but I don't hold it against her no more than I don't for Emma. Some people think Emma is spending little time with Henry and focusing solely on Hook. Writing may make that seem that way, but to the character I don't hold that against them for a piece of terrible writing.
Hailing Regina as the worst mother (except Black Fairy) just lacks balance. You have to include the good with the bad as that is what makes an experience. Cora is worse as she did things that Regina never would do. Cora manipulates physically and emotionally her children, was willing to rip out Regina's heart, gave up her child for her own selfish ambitions, and she did that all the way up to her time in the UW. Now, technically, she is one of the worst mother simply because we've seen more of her and most weren't seen as mother for a long time. The only fair comparisons we have for worst mothers are Milah, Snow, Emma, and Cora because noone else have been given significant (and meaningful screentime) as a parent. Thus, it's a really low bar given we haven't had many (unquestionably) good mothers with significant screentime and development. (The only one I can think of is Ruth)
rEGINA is ultimately horrible as a mom and Emma is better. This I can agree on. Cora and Black Fairy are worse than Regina though.
1. Regina was a helicopter mom as her mom was. Relatively rigid, overprotective, and over-involved in their child's everything. People like this exist. Are they terrible? No, not necessarily.
Regina isn't a 'helicopter mom'. I have shown all of her abusive tendencies. Manhandling your child, treating him like a possession isn't over protective.
2. Henry was in a faze, unaware of the strange things going on. Upon entering 5th grade, Henry noticed the weird curse-like state of Storybrooke. Regina lied to him to cover that up. Henry kept on pursuing, so she sent him to Dr. Hopper so he could convinve Henry that those ieas make no sense.
Yes, to convince him he was crazy. That is abuse.
Also, is it confirmed that Henry only started noticing time wasn't moving when he was 5th grade? I'd have thought it was way earlier. But the effects of Regina's curse on Henry is worth a whole post in itself as it effected not only his psycological wellbeing, but his education and ability to make friends. But Regina never cared.
3. Regina's state of love was ambiguous. She used him as a tool to manipulate Emma and it's obviously wrong.
4. She state she loves him, tries to change for him and fails. She realizes that she should let Henry go. (and he went with David, later, Emma.)
And then tries to kill his family
5. She tries again, stumbling over her efforts. She realizes she has to change for Henry.
6. She goes to Neverland, because she realizes she has to fight for Henry.
She makes Henry's death about what HER and what SHE has lost.
7. During the Missing Year and so on, she realizes what life is like without Henry.
8. She give True Love's Kiss to Henry.
If you think going from twistedly loving Henry to truely loving Henry isn't development, then there's no way to have a reasonable discussion with the canonical points presented. One can argue it should have been different or that it wasn't subjectively good, but development is development.
Regina not wanting Henry to see her in a weak state, while bad, isn't inhumane. He's staying with Emma and when Henry comes over, she welcomes him in. She didn't shut to door on him or ignore him. Often writing makes question chioces when they have her say things that sort exclude Henry from her happiness in a signifcant way, but I don't hold it against her no more than I don't for Emma. Some people think Emma is spending little time with Henry and focusing solely on Hook. Writing may make that seem that way, but to the character I don't hold that against them for a piece of terrible writing.
She sent a BIRD to tell him she didnt want him around then locked him out of her house. Regina doesn't get to stop being a parent because her feelings got hurt. He had to BEG to be allowed into his own home. Neglect. And this isn't bad writing, it's consistent with Regina.
Emma never locked Henry out of his home because Hook broke up with her (even when Hook DIED we don't see any evidence of Emma neglecting Henry or deciding she wasn't going to be a parent).
Hailing Regina as the worst mother (except Black Fairy) just lacks balance. You have to include the good with the bad as that is what makes an experience. What good? All Henry's fun moments where he can act like an actual kid are with Emma and Killian. Not Regina. Cora is worse as she did things that Regina never would do. Cora manipulates physically and emotionally her children (Regina did the exact same thing), was willing to rip out Regina's heart, gave up her child for her own selfish ambitions, and she did that all the way up to her time in the UW. Now, technically, she is one of the worst mother simply because we've seen more of her and most weren't seen as mother for a long time. The only fair comparisons we have for worst mothers are Milah, Snow, Emma, and Cora because noone else have been given significant (and meaningful screentime) as a parent. Thus, it's a really low bar given we haven't had many (unquestionably) good mothers with significant screentime and development. (The only one I can think of is Ruth)
Snow and Cora I agree with (although while Snow is bad, she isn't on Regina's level and I don't think I would actually call her abusive). But Milah and Emma? Milah made a mistake she spent every day regretting and Emma is there for Henry and strives to make him happy.
That was my orignal point actually, the BF makes all the terrible parents on this show look good by comparison.
I meant that the only mothers with any sort of negative traits and signficant development/time are Milah (sort of), Emma, Snow, Regina, and Cora. Most of the other mothers we hardly know much about, so following my train of thought, I agree that Regina's one of the worst mothers, but Cora is worst than her because Regina may be self-centered, but she would never think about ripping out his heart and/or killing him casually as Cora did. So,in other words, you have to include the good part of Regina's paranthood with the bad and that is better than Cora's whose been nothing but bad except a few moments.
Emma isn't perfect, but both her and Regina are different paths. Emma's bonding from not being there, Regina's redeeming herself with better care. In-show, I think they are pretty much the same with Regina being more experienced, Emma having a blank slate to start with.
I feel as though many place either of them in terms of reality which we can't really do because everyone on this show would be imprisoned or dead because nearly everyone is a murderer. XD
The whole point is characters have flaws and they overcome those flaws. Yes, Regina wasn't a good mom at the beginning, however she developed overtime and while she isn't perfect she realized she made mistakes and become a better person and a better mom.
Aine, I your bias and hatred towards the character makes you not see it or the fact that Emma has made mistakes as a mother as well.
I agree that everyone is not whole good and bad. Emma and Regina both made mistakes. But the thing is: Regina redeemed herself and became a better person and parent, while Emma became a bad parent compared to S1 and S2. They ruined her character to make her tie with Hook from S4 onward. Emma cares Hook SO MUCH more than Henry and her family. We know that because S5 exists xD
So your definition of a good parent is locking your 13 year old child out of his own home (and only opening the door when he promises to believe in you), sending a bird to tell him you don't want to see him (therefore making it impossible for him to respond), ignoring phone calls from his grandparents to continue to bang your boyfriend, essentially telling him he is not good enough to make you happy ("You, me, Robin and Roland. That was the closest I have ever been to being happy"), making him devote all his time to helping you with your plan to murder an innocent woman and rape said boyfriend, throwing petty tantrums when he finally makes a connection with anyone other than you and chosing to stay in a reality with a fake version of your bf instead of getting back to your very real son.
And given that we know Regina still hasn't given those innocent people their hearts and enjoyed abusign Emma in s5, she is definitely not a better person.
And where is your evidence that Emma loves Hook more than her family? Given that she said "I will protect my family even if I have to kill you to do it" and actually killed him to save them, that proves the opposite, right?
But I forgot, Emma is a woman with a child and so must devote all her time and energy into Henry. If she looks at anyone who isn't Henry, or decides she wants to be something other than a mother, she is awful and must be punished.
This has gotten really off topic. We can start a thread about that, but this one is meant for people who want to discuss "Mother's Little Helper", so let's stay on topic :D