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  • No bitter feelings here! Go forth and discuss!

    Anyone noticed the amount of poofing. Record levels!

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    • GOLDENQUEEN!!!! XD

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    • Way better than last week's 

      The cgi when Regina and the Evil Queen were talking in the forest was TERRIBLE


      And now Regina is dressing like Mary Margaret? What's up with the haircut and those pants?


      Oh and that scene with EQ and Rumple????  My god....

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    • Ahahaha!!!!! And even a little CaptianBeauty, I think. Weird episode overall, but very entertaining. 

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    • Eskaver
      Eskaver removed this reply because:
      No talk of such
      01:09, October 3, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • Overall a good telling of The Count of Monte Cristo (or the themes at least), and glad we resolved his character, so we don't have even more random characters floating around SB. I did think it was a bit of a waste that Charlotte appears to be an original character, instead of someone from The Count of Monte Cristo or a different story, but oh well.

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    • great episode. 1: this is the first time I saw Regina fight with a sword. 2: so the person who killed Emma might be Regina or the evil queen. 3: and for now on i'm going to call the evil queen: Regina 2.

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    • Teddybearlover wrote:
      great episode. 1: this is the first time I saw Regina fight with a sword. 2: so the person who killed Emma might be Regina or the evil queen. 3: and for now on i'm going to call the evil queen: Regina 2.

      Shattered Sight had Regina sword fight.

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Overall a good telling of The Count of Monte Cristo (or the themes at least), and glad we resolved his character, so we don't have even more random characters floating around SB. I did think it was a bit of a waste that Charlotte appears to be an original character, instead of someone from The Count of Monte Cristo or a different story, but oh well.

      Had to put a connection with Snow. I mean, random girl is better than a character who wouldn't fit and was rather expendable.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Overall a good telling of The Count of Monte Cristo (or the themes at least), and glad we resolved his character, so we don't have even more random characters floating around SB. I did think it was a bit of a waste that Charlotte appears to be an original character, instead of someone from The Count of Monte Cristo or a different story, but oh well.
      Had to put a connection with Snow. I mean, random girl is better than a character who wouldn't fit and was rather expendable.

      Yeah, well after Johanna and Charlotte, I'm getting a bit tired of Snow and her expendable servants. XD

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    • I liked the episode. I want to know whether Monte's kingdom/world/realm/place was a part of Fairy Tale World or a new world. Also, how did Rumple get back to SB? I feel like the writers are leading up to everybody being split (Emma and Dark Swan, Zelena and West, Gold and Rumple, Snow and her alternate-reality-self, etc.) in the winter finale. (Kind of like the magic at the end of season 1. A mist form of Jekyll's serum roll over SB. It engulfs our heroes. We see the begining of spliting tranformation begin. The mist form starts to cover the clock tower... and Scene. Also, this summer I watched Lost. It was funny hearing Emily de Raven talking about her unborn son (who from now on I'm calling "Aaron" until he is named). Lastly, I think the person who kills Emma isn't EQ (the obvious suspect) and is her dark self. (Regina is probably battleing EQ.)

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    • Is anyone familiar w/ The Pirates of the Carribean attraction in WDW? I believe I spied "The Redhead" in Granny's. And alas, I missed much of the dialogue in that scene due to a baby up past his bedtime. Must rewatch tomorrow.

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    • Henry's evil twin wielding the pen.

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    • OUAT: The Darkness wrote:
      I liked the episode. I want to know whether Monte's kingdom/world/realm/place was a part of Fairy Tale World or a new world. Also, how did Rumple get back to SB? 

      He has the wand

      He opened the portal for Belle.

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    • So, quick notes prior to rewatching later on.

      Back to the PAST......

      - Done really well, first scene. EQ actually fit in and not wearing eternal black and purple.

      - EQ versus Rumple was a plot element that they shouldn't have ever gotten rid of. They should have kept it, but it makes Regina seem more deluded or just dumber for going with Rumple's plan. I'm guessing Regina thought, "Well, I could still turn things around!"

      - Snow promised to kill Regina if she didn't take her exile in stride. The Medusa flashback was incredulous, but this makes Snow look pitiful. She essentially stopped nothing except Regina killing her.

      - Of course, Rumple has a key to the land of untold stories. So, who created this Meta-land as powerful poison stops just because???? Maybe someone cast the Light Curse that stopped unhappy endings and put things on pause. (That's the twist!)

      And what a PRESENT......

      - Protection spell on a phone!!!!!!! Now about the town border, it was a little different than the one Regina cast on SB because I'm sure it didn't bounce people back...unless it did, XD

      - EQ is really flirty and has a thing for Rumple. Rumple needs to find a new family of women to have relations with.

      - Hook apologizes, Regina does some apologizing. Character growth is always good.

      - People died and I totally thought Regina with the questionable Regina absence and the not-so-subtle hints earlier in the episode.

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    • 8Rob wrote:
      OUAT: The Darkness wrote:
      I liked the episode. I want to know whether Monte's kingdom/world/realm/place was a part of Fairy Tale World or a new world. Also, how did Rumple get back to SB? 
      He has the wand

      He opened the portal for Belle.

      Yep, I mean, noone's questioning how Belle got back and they literally had the same mode for transport. XD

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    • Also, Zelena is such a bad mother. Robin's crib is right next to an open flame.

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    • And the Evil Queen!

      I mean, Zelena knows everything what the EQ has done, and she lets her to be near to her baby!

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    • 8Rob wrote:
      And the Evil Queen!

      I mean, Zelena knows everything what the EQ has done, and she lets her to be near to her baby!

      I don't think Zelena really paid attention to EQ Regina. Or at least, at that time she looked through envious eyes and not...."Wow, this person is terrible!"

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    • Decent ep, though what realm was the Count originally from? Also, it was a bit creepy watching Other Regina flirt with Rumple.

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    • Avatar Beta wrote:
      Decent ep, though what realm was the Count originally from? Also, it was a bit creepy watching Other Regina flirt with Rumple.

      It is assumed to be the EF as Regina doesn't have realm jumping capab----well, she has the hat at this point and she could have used Sidney to look across realms to find him, but I don't know why she would. So, EF is assumed, but he didn't know the infamous EQ.

      EQ flirting with Rumple isn't too far out their as EQ serum seems to be essentially Regina's lust (revenge, etc) for darkness.

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    • Yeah but Rumple sniffing Regina in the flashback??

      What's up with all the Regina/Rumple thing in this episode??

      They never showed them in that way before

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    • Episode Likes:

      -Continuity with the Protection Spell on the Charming + Snow in flashback

      -Every (main) Character was featured to the extent where everyone in this episode was there almost equally (sans Regina)

      -They actually showed the world crossing (quite rare taking Ruby Slippers and Sisters into account)

      -THE CHARMING STORY, ABOUT HIS FATHER!!!!!!!!!! (Most importantly it's independant of Snow)

      -Return of the Royal Castle

      -Yay for Hook apologising to Belle


      Dislikes:

      -Although the continuity was okay in this episode, it wasn't amazing. I'm pretty sure The Cricket Game immediately preceded Pilot.

      -Too many Protection Spells

      -WHY IS THERE A CONVINIENT DOOR TO THE LoUS?? THIS BETTER BE EXPLAINED/EXPANDED UPON

      -Although yes Granny, Grumpy and Archie were in the episode, and the mains were all featured, I really think the recurring cast needs more to do.


      Notes/ Questions:

      -Can the Evil Queen really reveal anything about Charming's past, I mean wouldn't Regina have told him everything she knew if she did know anything?

      -Although these first episodes aren't very interesting (rather like S1), if the next ones are done well, all the foreshadowing in these eps will make them great. Although the beginnings of S3A, S3B, S4B, S5A, S5B were very interesting, everything foreshadowed in early eps never came to pass, making the closing episodes of the season frustrating and boring.

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    • I know this is a longshot, but could the carriage accident that killed David's father have anything to do with Cinderella and her carriage? 

      Also, I have a weird theory. In Emma's vision, she has the same vision just before she is killed. The vision is what caused her to get killed. It "loops" cause and effect in a way, so maybe this is a metaphore for the self-fulfilling nature of her vision.

      The person in the cape could be herself, symbolizing her identity crisis. Maybe her incessent self-labeling as "The Savior who must save", is just a way to escape her fear of who she is without it.

      Maybe her vision isn't meant to be taken literally, but instead symbolizes how her continual fear stemming from self-doubt is going to be her undoing. She gets scared, clings to the savior title because that makes her feel in control, and then does questionable things which cause trouble. 

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    • 8Rob wrote:
      Yeah but Rumple sniffing Regina in the flashback??

      What's up with all the Regina/Rumple thing in this episode??

      They never showed them in that way before

      The "WTF" moment of the episode.The EQ propositioning Rumple in the present was not as surprising as Rumple sniffing her in the flashbacks. That came out of nowhere, lol. 

      But now that I think about it, all 3 of the Mills women have had weird sexual scenes with sparkly Rumple.......

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    • 8Rob wrote:
      Yeah but Rumple sniffing Regina in the flashback??

      What's up with all the Regina/Rumple thing in this episode??

      They never showed them in that way before

      Yeah, that was kind of freaky, I have to admit. I think I'm just happy to see them move on from Rumbelle. It was getting painful to watch their relationship deteriorate with any hope that might spring up soon dashed by Rumple's ambitions.

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    • TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:
      I know this is a longshot, but could the carriage accident that killed David's father have anything to do with Cinderella and her carriage? 

      It shouldn't. Charming's father's accident was when Charming was still a child, and Cinderella going to the ball should be around the time Charming replaces James as the prince.

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    • Do you suppose Snow might be connected to it?

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    • The episode was pretty good. My only issue is the total yuck factor of the Evil Queen getting all handsy with Mr. Gold.

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    • I really loved it. Character growth was nice to see, also some info about a character who has very little speech, in fact he has only spoke like twice that I can remember in the entire 5 seasons and that is Bashful. We finally learn he works as a clerk for Dr Hopper. Loved  everything with Hook, love how they actually acknowledged Belle as a friend which was nice. Also the EQ and Rumple thing I actually enjoyed. Did not know much about the Count of Monte Cristo so I cant tell whether they represented him well but from an outsiders view I enjoyed his story in the epiosde. Cant wait for the next one. :)

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    • Reginaandgold101 wrote:
      I really loved it. Character growth was nice to see, also some info about a character who has very little speech, in fact he has only spoke like twice that I can remember in the entire 5 seasons and that is Bashful. We finally learn he works as a clerk for Dr Hopper. Loved  everything with Hook, love how they actually acknowledged Belle as a friend which was nice. Also the EQ and Rumple thing I actually enjoyed. Did not know much about the Count of Monte Cristo so I cant tell whether they represented him well but from an outsiders view I enjoyed his story in the epiosde. Cant wait for the next one. :)

      Bashful doesn't work for Archie, he is one of his patients. Probably for his shyness, which could be caused by something like social anxiety.

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Reginaandgold101 wrote:
      I really loved it. Character growth was nice to see, also some info about a character who has very little speech, in fact he has only spoke like twice that I can remember in the entire 5 seasons and that is Bashful. We finally learn he works as a clerk for Dr Hopper. Loved  everything with Hook, love how they actually acknowledged Belle as a friend which was nice. Also the EQ and Rumple thing I actually enjoyed. Did not know much about the Count of Monte Cristo so I cant tell whether they represented him well but from an outsiders view I enjoyed his story in the epiosde. Cant wait for the next one. :)
      Bashful doesn't work for Archie, he is one of his patients. Probably for his shyness, which could be caused by something like social anxiety.

      Are you sure? It sounded like he said Bashful is his clerk but I guess he could have said client but would Dr Hopper refer to his patient as a client? It defo did not sound like he said Bashful is my patient tho, bull i'll rewatch that bit and have another listen. :)

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    • Regarding Bashful, I thought Archie referred to him as his '4 o'clock appointment', or something to that effect.  However, Archie revealing anything about Bashful would be breaking Confidentiality, and that is something that I think Archie would avoid unless threatened. So I'll have to rewatch.

      Now, as for my thoughts for the episode in general...

      Interesting Episode last night. The entire story felt well crafted, and much better than much of what we’ve seen in the past couple of seasons. Hopefully they can continue with this feel. The flashback was, I thought, better than some of the previous ones. Regina’s introduction to the Count did not feel contrived like some of the other backstories, though it was amazing that they still managed to get a Rumple relationship to the backstory character, and also tied him to the means that the character was able to escape to the LoUS.

      The good:

      • Regina was looking for a way to defeat Snow and Charming in the EF after her ability to harm them had been removed, showing both character and plot consistency.
      • Emma taking the counseling sessions seriously. Her first session was very realistic, with Emma storming out of the session. But then she comes back after another incident of the hand tremors.
      • Also, in the 3 main storylines, there was actual honesty and character interaction. Emma was honest (at least with Archie) about what was going on, which bodes well for being able to deal with the situation. Regina was immediate with opening up to Snow and Charming as soon as she understood the situation with the Count. And Killian was, I thought, very honest (and sincerely remorseful) in his conversation with Belle. So, while there might be a still a little bit of truth concealment, the characters all grew just a little.
      • Henry’s insight at the end. While still a bit cheesy on the delivery, it was insightful in the comparison between what we saw in season 1 and what we might be seeing in season 6, and how they are going to need to proceed in resolving the untold stories.
      • Regina’s handling of the Count at the end. At no point did she resort to darkness (despite what the EQ wanted her to believe). She tried to reason with the Count. She tried to physically stop him without harming him (and we got to see Regina as a reasonably well-trained sword fighter, which was a bonus). And when all else failed and the Count was ready to complete his quest by killing a defenseless Snow and Charming, she did what needed to be done. Regina took a page straight out of David’s book, so if you are going to call Regina dark for what happened on the Dock, then David is equally as dark.
      • The Count was an interesting character with a quick development into the confliction that would be appropriate for him. And rather than keep that story going, they (rightfully, in my opinion) made him a One and Done (He can work out his issues with Cruella or Arthur). And the realization by Henry that the story ended wrong is an interesting take that maybe they will make mistakes getting the stories to play out.

      The Bad

      • Ok, I was seriously creeped out by the EQ making a play for Rumple. I never saw that kind of desire in Regina in the EF, and definitely did not see it in SB. That was a play that came out of the blue.  Fortunately, based on Gold’s response, I think he was just as creeped out as I was.
      • EQ the all-knowing. Regina did not have all knowledge in the EF. So how is it she comes off knowing things?. Like her implication to David about his father?
      • Regina making it so Rumple could not hurt the count. Nice try, but the reason that the charm worked when Rumple helped Snow is that Regina attacked Snow with an enchanted blade (or at least that is how I understood what happened). The Count never tried to hurt Rumple, so how was Regina able to pull off turning the tables?
      • EQ trying to use the ploy of Regina stopping/killing the Count to show Regina that she was still dark. That plot trick did not with Emma (The Queens of Darkness, anyone?), so why should it work with Regina now?

      Stray observations:

      • The “lucky charm” that Regina got from Rumple. Just the fact that Rumple had that bauble in his shop means that there must be some importance, and that it relates to David’s dad means that maybe things are not as they seem (How the EQ knows about this is another matter entirely). Clever way, in my opinion, of putting that pawn on the board without distracting from main story.
      • Glad to see that Henry did retain possession of “Once Upon a Time, Part II” book. There’s hope that the writers will develop his character.
      • Belle having a real interaction with someone, and Killian in particular.  And, I’m glad they dealt with the elephant in the room regarding potential ulterior motives for Killian providing assistance as a means to get back at Rumple. They did not deny an awareness of those motives, but by addressing them, they made it clear that (in my opinion) those motives were not the driving force behind Killian’s offer of assistance.
      • The characters in Granny’s. It is definitely clear that we will be getting the 3 Musketeers at some point, as well as something from Victorian England. I did not recognize some of the other characters, but the Musketeers were very obvious. I’m excited to see how they will fit in. And just a bit of thinking, that could be quite a swashbuckling story, and we may get to see all of the trained sword fighters in town participate (well, at least David, Killian, Regina, Snow, and Emma, though getting Thomas and Philip involved would be nice as well, though I am not holding my breath for the latter).
      • Zelena? Her place in the stories is still unclear? She is clearly not Team Regina, but I get the sense she is not entirely Team EQ either.  They need to find something to bring her into one of the main story lines, even if it does happen with Team EQ. That would be better than sitting on the sidelines (though I can’t fault them for having Zelena take time to actually care for her baby).
      • Line of the night does go to Zelena, though. I don’t remember the exact quote, but her reference to “…Riding around in those infernal contraptions, when you can just poof where you want to go”. That observation, at least for Emma, Regina, and Gold, is spot on, and Zelena has clearly decided she’s not getting her driver’s license.
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    • It was a great episode, and I don't know if the others episodes were like this, but this one seemed to have a terrible CGI. I don't remember the protection spell on Snow and Chariming being mentioned before, also I thought is was wierd Rumple and EQ in the past, I don't remember he acting like that around her before. 

      I liked the idea that time stops in the Land of Uuntold Stories. Didn't liked Belle forgiving Hook, after everything he did to her, but since the writers made her kinda of forgive Regina, don't see why not Hook. And I really liked the scene when EQ meets Henry, I'm curious as if she like him as a son or not...

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    • Hmcooper4 wrote

      The Bad

      • Ok, I was seriously creeped out by the EQ making a play for Rumple. I never saw that kind of desire in Regina in the EF, and definitely did not see it in SB. That was a play that came out of the blue.  Fortunately, based on Gold’s response, I think he was just as creeped out as I was.
      • EQ the all-knowing. Regina did not have all knowledge in the EF. So how is it she comes off knowing things?. Like her implication to David about his father?
      • Regina making it so Rumple could not hurt the count. Nice try, but the reason that the charm worked when Rumple helped Snow is that Regina attacked Snow with an enchanted blade (or at least that is how I understood what happened). The Count never tried to hurt Rumple, so how was Regina able to pull off turning the tables?
      • EQ trying to use the ploy of Regina stopping/killing the Count to show Regina that she was still dark. That plot trick did not with Emma (The Queens of Darkness, anyone?), so why should it work with Regina now?

      Clearly I can't do the qoute function. XD. Here are my thoughts.

      1. Regina/EQ doesn't have some attraction to Rumple, but rather power and darkness. It's what many of the vilalins want--control, security, and more important, domination. Regina used her assets in whatever way to maintain control and Regina and Rumple always had their power plays. If Rumple was indeed attracted to EQ, then EQ would hold some sway over the most powerful person around. It's like--why would Cora want to kill Rumple to get more power in season 2 when noone had magic? It's because villains seek power to control their lives. More power = more control = more security. Rumple was never interested either, but he does tend to have attractive moments to his students from that one branch.

      2. Plot. But on any other hand, she did have a Magic Mirror that could see anything. Chances are she learnned info on David on Netflix...I mean, the mirror over the years. I mean she clearly knew where he came from, so chances are she saw the death of DaddyCharming and happened upon the item doing a locator spell or something, discovering that Rumple had it.

      3. Rumple put a protection spell on the two before Snow went in there to test Regina, using a strand of Regina's hair. Regina just did the same to the count. All you need is a personal item, plus random protection spell stuff and immunity. I think they should have done this to everyone a long time ago. Technically, are Snow and David still protected from Regina? I don't think we've actually seen her hurt one of them.

      4. Totally agree. It's because the show has a terrible slogan of "heroes don't kill" ever! Worse than that is they are doing OC Part 2 when they did this in 5A, lol. Guess the writers looked through too many dreamcatchers! XD

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    • Two questions:

      • Events with monte Christo was during their Honeymoon? Between scenes from flashbacks in s03e10, right after she defeated Medusa but before they met "Queens of Darkness" in s04e13, right? EQ directly said that she couldn't hurt the Charmings for Rumple's spell. But Rumple's words make's me confused: "I need them alive and fertile". This means - since Maleficent said to Charmings that Snow is pregnant in s04e13 - that it has to be during their honeymoon. That summer palace appeared in s03e10.
      • WHY Monte Christo took his love with him to storybrooke? Why did he even go to that trip to Storybrooke?
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    • Michu1945 wrote:
      Two questions:
      • Events with monte Christo was during their Honeymoon? Between scenes from flashbacks in s03e10, right before they met "Queens of Darkness" in s04e13, right? EQ directly said that - "Regina said she couldn't hurt the Charmings for Rumple's spell.". But Rumple's words make's me confused: "I need thrm alive and fertile". This means - since Maleficent said to Charmings that Snow is pregnant in s04e13 - that it has to be during their honeymoon. That summer palace appeared in s03e10.
      • WHY Monte Christo took her love with him to storybrooke? Why did he even go to that trip to Storybrooke?

      1. This is after the exile of EQ by Snow and before their big wedding. That is what I guess. Weddings do take time to prepare for!

      2. Edmond (The Count) said that Hyde forced them on the blimp. They didn't want to go, but when a strong, evil madman is around, you do what he says.

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    • Blair Salvatore
      Blair Salvatore removed this reply because:
      No
      18:38, October 3, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • Oh wow, this episode started a bit boring but it kept improving and I ended up loving it. 

      I liked the Count.. I was actually sad to see him go but I couldn't see a reason to leave him around. Also, we finally got some more info on the Land of Untold Stories and I'm intrigued to see more stories from there. 

      My God, was it just me or was Lana Parilla remarkable in this episode? I'm not surprised but she was so, so good in this one. 

      And last but not least, the EQ got me so hyped about what's coming. I hope the writers keep this up and not let us down (again). 

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    • Reginaandgold101 wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Reginaandgold101 wrote:
      I really loved it. Character growth was nice to see, also some info about a character who has very little speech, in fact he has only spoke like twice that I can remember in the entire 5 seasons and that is Bashful. We finally learn he works as a clerk for Dr Hopper. Loved  everything with Hook, love how they actually acknowledged Belle as a friend which was nice. Also the EQ and Rumple thing I actually enjoyed. Did not know much about the Count of Monte Cristo so I cant tell whether they represented him well but from an outsiders view I enjoyed his story in the epiosde. Cant wait for the next one. :)
      Bashful doesn't work for Archie, he is one of his patients. Probably for his shyness, which could be caused by something like social anxiety.
      Are you sure? It sounded like he said Bashful is his clerk but I guess he could have said client but would Dr Hopper refer to his patient as a client? It defo did not sound like he said Bashful is my patient tho, bull i'll rewatch that bit and have another listen. :)

      He may have not used the word patient, but he said that Bashful likes to start his sessions talking about current events, and only a patient would have "sessions" with Archie.

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    • Hmcooper4 wrote:
      Regarding Bashful, I thought Archie referred to him as his '4 o'clock appointment', or something to that effect.  However, Archie revealing anything about Bashful would be breaking Confidentiality, and that is something that I think Archie would avoid unless threatened. So I'll have to rewatch.

      Well, he did get his degree from a curse, so...

      XD

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      Michu1945 wrote:
      Two questions:
      • Events with monte Christo was during their Honeymoon? Between scenes from flashbacks in s03e10, right before they met "Queens of Darkness" in s04e13, right? EQ directly said that - "Regina said she couldn't hurt the Charmings for Rumple's spell.". But Rumple's words make's me confused: "I need thrm alive and fertile". This means - since Maleficent said to Charmings that Snow is pregnant in s04e13 - that it has to be during their honeymoon. That summer palace appeared in s03e10.
      • WHY Monte Christo took her love with him to storybrooke? Why did he even go to that trip to Storybrooke?

      1. This is after the exile of EQ by Snow and before their big wedding. That is what I guess. Weddings do take time to prepare for!

      2. Edmond (The Count) said that Hyde forced them on the blimp. They didn't want to go, but when a strong, evil madman is around, you do what he says.

      1. Thanks. That I can accept.
      2. Thanks. I saw episode without english subtitles.

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    • ["In Emma's vision, she has the same vision just before she is killed. The vision is what caused her to get killed. It "loops" cause and effect in a way, so maybe this is a metaphore for the self-fulfilling nature of her vision. "]


      I don't know why this plot line was included in the first place. We all know that deep down, Emma will be alive and well by the end of the series.


      [" If Rumple was indeed attracted to EQ, then EQ would hold some sway over the most powerful person around. It's like--why would Cora want to kill Rumple to get more power in season 2 when noone had magic"]


      All of the magic practitioners had power in Season Two. Even Cora noticed that there was magic in Storybrooke, when she first arrived.

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    • CTrent29 wrote:

      [" If Rumple was indeed attracted to EQ, then EQ would hold some sway over the most powerful person around. It's like--why would Cora want to kill Rumple to get more power in season 2 when noone had magic"]


      All of the magic practitioners had power in Season Two. Even Cora noticed that there was magic in Storybrooke, when she first arrived.

      I meant that none of the heroes had magic. Cora wanted more power despite facing magicless citizens.

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    • This episode was pretty good:

      • Liked that Emma actually went in therapy with Archie
      • Gold and Evil Queen ship...eh...xD That's disgusting, but so funny
      • Flashbacks were decent
      • I liked the Count, but he died at the end, which was disappointing
      • But the Evil Queen was just amazing in this episode

      So, not a lot of good, but not a lot of bad either. A little better than the previous episode.

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    • I always saw the thing with EQ where she flirts with Rumple as that its the EQ, I mean all EQ no goodness in her at all. I was under the impression that Regina took the serum to remove her darkeness AKA the EQ. So this EQ is without any of Regina's morals or anything, I can totally understand a pure evil version of Regina totally flirting with Rumple and enjoying the sexual conetations that would bring. I liked that Rumple also was shocked by it too because as people mention Regina never showed any love for Rumple in the past but the EQ? We have no idea what she will be like because she is a lot more freer with her emotions and everything else and I for one am loving that. :)

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    • Lol, the forest scene and the CGI was total lame. Seriously..

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    • Not all sex/flirtation is purely sexual... it can also be a power thing. That's what I saw in the EQ's (and Zelena's, back in s3) flirting with Mr. Gold. It's a conquest.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      Hmcooper4 wrote

      The Bad

      • Ok, I was seriously creeped out by the EQ making a play for Rumple. I never saw that kind of desire in Regina in the EF, and definitely did not see it in SB. That was a play that came out of the blue.  Fortunately, based on Gold’s response, I think he was just as creeped out as I was.
      • EQ the all-knowing. Regina did not have all knowledge in the EF. So how is it she comes off knowing things?. Like her implication to David about his father?
      • Regina making it so Rumple could not hurt the count. Nice try, but the reason that the charm worked when Rumple helped Snow is that Regina attacked Snow with an enchanted blade (or at least that is how I understood what happened). The Count never tried to hurt Rumple, so how was Regina able to pull off turning the tables?
      • EQ trying to use the ploy of Regina stopping/killing the Count to show Regina that she was still dark. That plot trick did not with Emma (The Queens of Darkness, anyone?), so why should it work with Regina now?
      Clearly I can't do the qoute function. XD. Here are my thoughts.

      1. Regina/EQ doesn't have some attraction to Rumple, but rather power and darkness. It's what many of the vilalins want--control, security, and more important, domination. Regina used her assets in whatever way to maintain control and Regina and Rumple always had their power plays. If Rumple was indeed attracted to EQ, then EQ would hold some sway over the most powerful person around. It's like--why would Cora want to kill Rumple to get more power in season 2 when noone had magic? It's because villains seek power to control their lives. More power = more control = more security. Rumple was never interested either, but he does tend to have attractive moments to his students from that one branch.

      2. Plot. But on any other hand, she did have a Magic Mirror that could see anything. Chances are she learnned info on David on Netflix...I mean, the mirror over the years. I mean she clearly knew where he came from, so chances are she saw the death of DaddyCharming and happened upon the item doing a locator spell or something, discovering that Rumple had it.

      3. Rumple put a protection spell on the two before Snow went in there to test Regina, using a strand of Regina's hair. Regina just did the same to the count. All you need is a personal item, plus random protection spell stuff and immunity. I think they should have done this to everyone a long time ago. Technically, are Snow and David still protected from Regina? I don't think we've actually seen her hurt one of them.

      4. Totally agree. It's because the show has a terrible slogan of "heroes don't kill" ever! Worse than that is they are doing OC Part 2 when they did this in 5A, lol. Guess the writers looked through too many dreamcatchers! XD

      Regina was able to rip MM's heart in 217. Sure, she didn't kill her, but could she have done it?

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    • As far as second episodes go, it was pretty good. Not exactly filler but not anything amazing.

      Liked

      • Lana just going full ham as the Evil Queen. The "tear yourselves apart" song/line was deliciously creepy and funny.
      • Dr Hopper returning for an actual good scene and not just a one episode thing?! More of that pls.
      • Hook apologising onscreen for shooting and almost trying to kill Belle finally. I can't remember the last time these two had a scene together other than 4B (which was about Rumple, not Hook)
      • Emma finally opening up about her visions. I thought she was just going to keep a secret until the day comes.

      disliked

      • The count was kind of boring as a character but he was merely a one shot villain like Bo-Peep.
      • the CGI when Regina threw the sword through the Count's chest was worse than normal. It just looked to clean of a stab.
      • GoldenQueen is just ew. Especially when Rumple had a relationship with her mother. The fact that there is most likely more to come is making me want to puke.
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    • FrancisPaul wrote:

      Regina was able to rip MM's heart in 217. Sure, she didn't kill her, but could she have done it?

      The protection spell only works in the FTL. That's why Rumple put this spell on Snow and Charming so Regina had to enact the Curse.

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    • CadoDoan wrote:
      FrancisPaul wrote:

      Regina was able to rip MM's heart in 217. Sure, she didn't kill her, but could she have done it?

      The protection spell only works in the FTL. That's why Rumple put this spell on Snow and Charming so Regina had to enact the Curse.

      The problem with that is that it is implied that the protection spell doesn't work when there is no magic. Otherwise, Regina could just push Snow through a portal and kill her.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      CadoDoan wrote:
      FrancisPaul wrote:

      Regina was able to rip MM's heart in 217. Sure, she didn't kill her, but could she have done it?

      The protection spell only works in the FTL. That's why Rumple put this spell on Snow and Charming so Regina had to enact the Curse.
      The problem with that is that it is implied that the protection spell doesn't work when there is no magic. Otherwise, Regina could just push Snow through a portal and kill her.

      She could, but she already had the curse. Once the count failed, she probably realised that it wouldn't matter whatever she did, she wouldn't kill Snow unless she used the Curse as Rumple desired.

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    • I think you have a valid point. It was totally like Regina to try and find the loophole in Rumple's protection spell. So using the Count makes sense (and it is a valid loophole. Wow! Rumple must have been slipping up, leaving that big of a loophole). And after Rumple thwarted that effort at bypassing the curse, My guess is that Regina would finally acquiesce to the situation and start looking for the best way to enact the curse, rather than fight both Snow and Rumple (a fight that she would never win on either front).

      Regina just shoving Snow through a portal and killing her causes an issue, because Regina would have to follow, and Portals tend to be one way unless you have a means to open it again. And so far, I think we've only seen Jefferson's Hat and the Apprentice's wand as reliable options. And while Regina wants to get rid of Snow, she also wants to be in the position to Rule the Kingdom.

      And finally, once Regina chose to pursue the curse option, KILLING Snow was no longer the goal. Subjecting Snow to endless years of torment and suffering was more her goal at that point, one which she did actually get to enjoy for 28 years. Of course, she also tried that with the apple, and failed miserably.

      To Utter's comment regarding the fact that not all flirting is purely sexual. I agree that flirting may be more than just sexual, but at it's core it is sexually based manipulation.  It is using sexually driven desire to acheive some goal. So whatever else may be involved (and I agree that the move was definitly a power play on the EQ part), the EQ flirting with Gold provides some very sexually based mental images that are just plain creepy, on multiple levels.

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    • Awesome episode! I'm loving the EQ returning and I'm so glad this season is using more Rumple than 5B did. I hate Gold but love Rumple...

      Just a few thoughts I had when watching:

      -I still don't get what the deal is with splitting your good side and bad side. I didn't really agree with the premise behind it before even though it should be fun and interesting. But if Regina's Good Side is still able to become Dark, then is it even her good side? Does this also mean EQ can still be good? In which case, did the serum only serve to clone Regina rather than truly splitting her light and dark up? Also I'm still waiting to see if the EQ mentions Daniel, and therefore if there is still some good in her. Because without loving Daniel she has no real reason to hate Snow. Also does the EQ love Henry? I'm hoping for a dialogue scene just the two of them to see how Henry interacts with his mother/not-mother.

      -As much as I love badass Evil Queen moments complete with theme music, I feel like there were perhaps one too many of these in one episode, one too many poofs of smoke too. Having said that, I LOVED the "tear yourselves apart" bit - that was cool.

      -Did the scene with the wine remind anyone else of the Emperor's New Groove?

      -Why is the EQ hitting on Gold? Honey you can do SO much better than that oily little man.

      -I do like how much the show is expanding its story base. I'd never heard the story of the Count of Monte Cristo - and Untold story indeed at least for me. But I still can't wait for Aladdin and Jafar to emerge, but I like how they put that right at the beginning of last week's just to leave hanging for a bit.

      -Once again Snow and David were liabilities. They know someone wants to kill them and don't even arm themselves. And get knocked out without being hit on the head. And stay passed out til half a second after Regina kills the Count. Just let them die.

      -Don't worry Regina, killing someone with a sword doesn't make you Dark. David's done it plenty of times and no one cared. Oh no wait, this person was relevant to the story so yeah it's bad.

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    • I loved CS at the start of the episode, with him being supportive of her seeing Archie and impressed by it. 

      Captain Beauty was just too adorable! Plus, Killian owning up to his wrongdoing and wanting to help her. I also really like the 'this lady' bit. I hope we see more of these two.

      Not enough Emma imo. 

      I dislike the fact that Emma feels like she has to be helpingn people and giving them back their Happy Endings even though she owes them nothing. I know that's just who she is, just selfless little Emma Swan doing her thing but I don't like her feeling like that's all she is and that she isn't entitled to her own happiness because she has to go help random strangers. I'd love for this to be expanded on.

      Also, yay David storyline! It's about time he's gotten to be relevant. But-boo someone in the main cast (my money's on Killian) probably killed his dad.

      I'm not looking forward to the EQ revealing all the 'bad things' everyone else has done to make them tear themselves apart, because to me it translates to "Watch us retcon all your faves so they all did bad things to make Regina look good!" May be my inner pessimist though.

      OHMYGOD Rumple getting up close and personal with Regina in the EF and the EQ getting up close and personal with Rumple in SB just made me very, verrrrry uncomfortable.

      And I dislike the 'the Count won't let this girl he met two seconds ago die because she looks like hsi ex' bit, mainly because I hate the "you remind me of my ex so I feel something for you" trope.

      So the Count is the third assassin Regina's hired who hasn't done what she wanted her to. Haha.

      My problem with the constant Snowing vs Regina flashbacks is that it makes Regina look dumb and therefore deminishes Snow and Charming's ability to outsmart her. She failed here because of a fluke, not because Snow actually defeated her.

      So I wonder if we can put Regina as the anti-Saviour since she said she'd save the Count and ended up killing him,......

      (this next part will be a bit ranty)

      Operation Cobra part 2? Really? That is an Swan Believer thing, writers! This isn't a parallel it's stealing. I feel like they're trying to make Regina into an Emma 2.0- Operation Cobra part 2, getting to do the sword throw. Sigh. This whole thing is a redo of season 1 with Regina as the Saviour and I don't like it. Also didn't we already have Regina struggle to be the Saviour in s5? And in s3? And struggle for her happiness in s4? This is so repetetive. 

      Also the Operations were cute when Henry was 10 but I think after Operation Mixtape it just got boring.

      I didn't really like it. It just felt like a filler episode to me.

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    • Aine1989 wrote:
      I loved CS at the start of the episode, with him being supportive of her seeing Archie and impressed by it. 

      Captain Beauty was just too adorable! Plus, Killian owning up to his wrongdoing and wanting to help her. I also really like the 'this lady' bit. I hope we see more of these two.

      Not enough Emma imo. 

      I dislike the fact that Emma feels like she has to be helpingn people and giving them back their Happy Endings even though she owes them nothing. I know that's just who she is, just selfless little Emma Swan doing her thing but I don't like her feeling like that's all she is and that she isn't entitled to her own happiness because she has to go help random strangers. I'd love for this to be expanded on.

      Also, yay David storyline! It's about time he's gotten to be relevant. But-boo someone in the main cast (my money's on Killian) probably killed his dad.

      I'm not looking forward to the EQ revealing all the 'bad things' everyone else has done to make them tear themselves apart, because to me it translates to "Watch us retcon all your faves so they all did bad things to make Regina look good!" May be my inner pessimist though.

      OHMYGOD Rumple getting up close and personal with Regina in the EF and the EQ getting up close and personal with Rumple in SB just made me very, verrrrry uncomfortable.

      And I dislike the 'the Count won't let this girl he met two seconds ago die because she looks like hsi ex' bit, mainly because I hate the "you remind me of my ex so I feel something for you" trope.

      So the Count is the third assassin Regina's hired who hasn't done what she wanted her to. Haha.

      My problem with the constant Snowing vs Regina flashbacks is that it makes Regina look dumb and therefore deminishes Snow and Charming's ability to outsmart her. She failed here because of a fluke, not because Snow actually defeated her.

      So I wonder if we can put Regina as the anti-Saviour since she said she'd save the Count and ended up killing him,......

      (this next part will be a bit ranty)

      Operation Cobra part 2? Really? That is an Swan Believer thing, writers! This isn't a parallel it's stealing. I feel like they're trying to make Regina into an Emma 2.0- Operation Cobra part 2, getting to do the sword throw. Sigh. This whole thing is a redo of season 1 with Regina as the Saviour and I don't like it. Also didn't we already have Regina struggle to be the Saviour in s5? And in s3? And struggle for her happiness in s4? This is so repetetive. 

      Also the Operations were cute when Henry was 10 but I think after Operation Mixtape it just got boring.

      I didn't really like it. It just felt like a filler episode to me.

      Little selfless Emma? I'm sorry but to me she is the last person to be called selfless, especially after what she did to Hook and after she dragged everyone to UW.

      About Regina, no one is perfect. She wanted to save the town and she tried for it. Yes, she ended up killing him. It was either Count or Snow&Charming. She had no choice, therefore she did what had to be done. David killed LOTS OF people in the past. Emma killed Cruella to protect Henry (which I think she has the right for it). What's the difference now?

      They're not going to make Regina Savior which I think it's impossible as being a Savior is more like from birth. This all thing may be a redo of S1, so? Everyone loved S1 and now they're trying to make things work as the show is going to an end after S7 at most. This may be a redo (which I think not) but it's fun! I don't know if you have a hate for Regina in you (don't get me wrong, because generally CS fans hate Regina as Regina fans hate CS) but no one should ignore some facts just because they don't like that character.

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    • Guys, the real problem with Operation Cobra Part 2 is that it already happened and the writers forgot about it. XD (Emma and Henry did it in 5A)

      I actually think the show's coming to a close with my "redux" theory. Not necessarily a theory as many shows, books, etc do this. They are ending just as they began but with a better outcome, etc.

      I figured it was going to be a redux, but then I realized it definitely must be! Besides....

      1. Being centered in Storybrooke.

      2. Emma dealing with being a Savior. Rumple and Regina's second chance at happiness.

      3. Episodic stories.

      Guess who were the villains of season 1? Regina and Rumple, which is exactly who the villains are now.

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    • I might be reaching here, but does anyone else see the way the Evil Queen tricked Regina into murdering Edmond, mirrors the way Mr. Gold tricked Emma into killing Cruella? Both murdered parties are in a way helpless, Edmond had no control over his actions, and Cruella couldn't really defend herself. Emma and Regina are tricked into situations where from their point of view, they didn't have any option but to kill to save people they loved. However, the people who held the bigger peices of the puzzles, Mr. Gold, and the Evil Queen, both knew there was a way to get out of the situation without bloodshed, but both forced people into these situations, because they wanted to awaken Emma and Regina's inner darkness.

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    • Emma had magic. There a lot of things she could have done to save Henry, teleportation included. 

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    • 8Rob wrote:
      Emma had magic. There a lot of things she could have done to save Henry, teleportation included. 

      Up until becoming the Dark One, Emma was still only able to teleport objects. It was only after being the Dark One that she was able to teleport herself, though, for some reason she'll probably not be able to this season.

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    • I commented on the similarity between Regina killing the Count vs Turning Emma Dark earlier, and yes there was a very strong similarity between these two story lines. And I'll say it again, anyone that suggests Regina is turning dark after killing the Count in order to prevent the murder of someone else is just wrong. What she did was sad, but necessary, and definitely not dark. And it's not like she didn't try to stop the Count by other means previously, she had tried other avenues first. Her actions, at least in this scenario, were from the heroic pages of the book. (Complete with the sword throw that we've seen both David and Emma use).

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    • Hmcooper4 wrote:
      I commented on the similarity between Regina killing the Count vs Turning Emma Dark earlier, and yes there was a very strong similarity between these two story lines. And I'll say it again, anyone that suggests Regina is turning dark after killing the Count in order to prevent the murder of someone else is just wrong. What she did was sad, but necessary, and definitely not dark. And it's not like she didn't try to stop the Count by other means previously, she had tried other avenues first. Her actions, at least in this scenario, were from the heroic pages of the book. (Complete with the sword throw that we've seen both David and Emma use).

      B-but heroes don't kill! (See how morally base this concept is. David killed Percival to save Regina, but somehow noone mentions him descending into darkness. Emma essentially killed Maleficent, but noone went on about how darkness sprouted in Emma.)

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      Hmcooper4 wrote:
      I commented on the similarity between Regina killing the Count vs Turning Emma Dark earlier, and yes there was a very strong similarity between these two story lines. And I'll say it again, anyone that suggests Regina is turning dark after killing the Count in order to prevent the murder of someone else is just wrong. What she did was sad, but necessary, and definitely not dark. And it's not like she didn't try to stop the Count by other means previously, she had tried other avenues first. Her actions, at least in this scenario, were from the heroic pages of the book. (Complete with the sword throw that we've seen both David and Emma use).
      B-but heroes don't kill! (See how morally base this concept is. David killed Percival to save Regina, but somehow noone mentions him descending into darkness. Emma essentially killed Maleficent, but noone went on about how darkness sprouted in Emma.)

      This is what irriates me most about this show sometimes. I've always wondered why David gets off scot-free for killing people with his sword. Not just Percival, but he also killed several guards in the pilot episode, and even tried to kill Regina with the same sword throw she used to kill the Count.

      I wondered at first if it was only DARK if you use magic to kill, but then Hook managed to become Dark just by stabbing people like a Muggle. So now I'm thinking it's only wrong to kill someone if they have a speaking part.

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    • In my opinion, David gets off scot free for Percival because he was countering an attack against Regina. He was not the agressor, and he was not trying to commit murder, he was in a defensive mode. Similarly, Regina, at the point where she killed the Count, was in what I would consider a defensive mode in that she was defending Snow and David, who were incapacitated and defenseless.  And it's not like she didn't try to stop the Count by other means first. So, in the case of the Count, Regina has earned a pass.

      As for David with the Black Knights in the Pilot, again, he was not the attacker, but the defender. He did what he needed to do to protect himself and his baby.

      Where Regina does not get a pass is the mass murder of villages, and the other acts that she perpetrated as the Evil Queen, leading up to the first curse. She can be forgiven, and her actions of late would seem to indicate a true repentence and remorse for what she did, and she is trying now to live a changed life. So forgiveness is an option, and as both Regina and Killian have pointed out, they ultimately need to be able to forgive themselves for what they did wrong in the past. They are both struggling with finding that self-forgiveness, and that is a good thing.

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    • We tend to all agree, but the show really pushes "Accidental, Intentional, in Defense, or not.....it causes "Dahkness" to enter your heart." Apparently, murder and and the urge to cause death are the only things causing darkness inside. Forget stealing, lying, adultery, etc so Eggnapping Charmings, Theiving Neal and Emma, Lying Rumple (in 5A) are pure of heart.

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    • Well, to be fair, taking another person's life, no matter the reason, is going to have a profound impact on the person. Consider the many policemen that are required to undergo counseling (and evaluation) after they have had to shoot a person in the course of their jobs. (And I won't even go into the number of vets that need counselling after being involved in combat).

      And I would not say that Rumple was ever pure of heart. his heart was a clean slate, but it was never pure. As for the Egg-Nappers, didn't Snow acknowledge the possibility that the darkness on her heart could have been caused by the Egg events, rather than the murder of Cora?

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    • Hmcooper4 wrote:
      Well, to be fair, taking another person's life, no matter the reason, is going to have a profound impact on the person. Consider the many policemen that are required to undergo counseling (and evaluation) after they have had to shoot a person in the course of their jobs. (And I won't even go into the number of vets that need counselling after being involved in combat).

      And I would not say that Rumple was ever pure of heart. his heart was a clean slate, but it was never pure. As for the Egg-Nappers, didn't Snow acknowledge the possibility that the darkness on her heart could have been caused by the Egg events, rather than the murder of Cora?

      Yeah, but we know that ti wasn't because of that, lol. Rumple had a pure heart (or whatever defines a hero) because he pulled Excalibur. I mean, technically he lied after that, but he doesn't often get heart ripped.

      My issue is that they hardly stress the other "wrong" or morally dubious things besides murder darkneing your heart. David at least killed a few people and lied a few times, but he had a pure heart.

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    • MyPretties wrote:
      8Rob wrote:
      Emma had magic. There a lot of things she could have done to save Henry, teleportation included. 
      Up until becoming the Dark One, Emma was still only able to teleport objects. It was only after being the Dark One that she was able to teleport herself, though, for some reason she'll probably not be able to this season.

      I meant she could have teleported the gun

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    • yeah, she could have. But in the heat of the moment, things happen quickly. And what Emma did is actually no different than what many law enforcement officials would have done when faced with a criminal that was armed. if you get a clean shot, you take it.

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    • A Spy in the Mirror
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