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  • Can we discuss Zoso's appearances in S5?

    Yes, I know that all Dark Ones are supposed to be there, but in 507 we see less hooded figures than in 510/511, therefore I don't thinkwe can actually say he appears in Nimue. He might or he might not.

    If we see in Nimue less Dark Ones it's because not all of them appear there.

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    • All Dark Ones are supposed to appear in "Nimue". She said it clearly. So, it means they all appear. Why she would say that if all Dark Ones were not there?

      Yes, we saw less hooded figures, but that's because the place where they filmed was not that big. That's all. That's a BTS reason. Don't think they thought that some people woud loose their time by counting the DO x)

      We're basing our info on the show info. And the show say all Dark Ones appear. No discussion on that. Moreover, if we think like that, we saw more DO in 511 than the time where they came from the Underworld on Charon's boat. So what? They just magically come from the Underworld alone? No.

      We have to make a difference and to know it, between show info and BTS info. Cos a lot of things would be diffent otherwise. If we strictly look at BTS info, then Maleficent's dragon appearance is not unique, for exemple. Then, Rumple is supposed to own the Sorcerer's Hat and Excalibur in the EF, since they appear at the background of his castle. Then, either the King, Xavier and Eric fought each other and owned the same castle or they used the same architect when they built their castles.

      I can continue a long time, the list is very long ^^

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    • I's not quite the same thing. Of course the reason for the varying number of Dark Ones is BTS not storytelling. I'm not saying that not all Dark Ones were there in Nimue, but not all Dark Ones were seen. She says they are there, OK, but can we actually be sure that they all appear? Couldn't camera angles be showing less people than actually there were?

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    • Using the simplest guess, Zoso was there as were all Dark Ones. It's just a goof as they probably didn't know how many Dark Ones and the number likely doesn't matter much to them as long as there were a lot.

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    • FrancisPaul wrote:
      I's not quite the same thing. Of course the reason for the varying number of Dark Ones is BTS not storytelling. I'm not saying that not all Dark Ones were there in Nimue, but not all Dark Ones were seen. She says they are there, OK, but can we actually be sure that they all appear? Couldn't camera angles be showing less people than actually there were?


      It is the exact same thing. If Nimue says all Dark Ones were there, then all DO were there. Eskaver also gave you another excellent explanation.

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    • I think we should note somewhere that goof then. The Darkness page shoulld explain that the number of Dark Ones varies and the viewer should take that info about how many they are with a grain of salt.

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    • FrancisPaul wrote:
      I think we should note somewhere that goof then. The Darkness page shoulld explain that the number of Dark Ones varies and the viewer should take that info about how many they are with a grain of salt.

      I agree. I didn't see any boar as well. That should be noted.

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    • That's not a goof. They chose to put less people on purpose for the scene, because the set was not big enough. If we put it somewhere, it is under Production Notes. And we counted the number of DO in the scenes of 511 => 18 DO, that's not to take it with a grain of salt. That's the number.

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    • Farerb wrote:
      FrancisPaul wrote:
      I think we should note somewhere that goof then. The Darkness page shoulld explain that the number of Dark Ones varies and the viewer should take that info about how many they are with a grain of salt.
      I agree. I didn't see any boar as well. That should be noted.

      Another simple explanation: He's a shapeshifter. I mean we don't actually think a boar somehow grew thumbs and stabbed a Dark One.

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    • I think that no matter the reason it is a goof.

      If they say all Dark Ones are here and show us what? 7? 10? 12?

      Then the next scene we see 18, it is a canonical information that changed. The total number of Dark Ones is later featured as bigger than it was at first.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      Farerb wrote:
      FrancisPaul wrote:
      I think we should note somewhere that goof then. The Darkness page shoulld explain that the number of Dark Ones varies and the viewer should take that info about how many they are with a grain of salt.
      I agree. I didn't see any boar as well. That should be noted.
      Another simple explanation: He's a shapeshifter. I mean we don't actually think a boar somehow grew thumbs and stabbed a Dark One.

      With that I agree. I don't think Gorgon being a Bandersnatch is a problem

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    • There is no canonical number unless the writers say it, or we see a consistent number or we see all the names. Otherwise, it's a number that we do not know for sure.

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    • Farerb wrote:
      FrancisPaul wrote:
      I think we should note somewhere that goof then. The Darkness page shoulld explain that the number of Dark Ones varies and the viewer should take that info about how many they are with a grain of salt.
      I agree. I didn't see any boar as well. That should be noted.

      Maybe you did not see any boar... But you saw 511, right? No bandersnatch among all DO. Clearly, Gorgon is a shapeshifter. Eskaver already explained it.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      There is no canonical number unless the writers say it, or we see a consistent number or we see all the names. Otherwise, it's a number that we do not know for sure.

      But if we don't know for sure than we should add that in the page.

      "The total number of Dark Ones before Rumplestiltskin has been addressed inconsistently, therefore remaining uncertain."

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    • We know the number. 18 Dark Ones between Nimue and Gorgon. We saw them. Not because they do not give us an explicit number in the dialogue, that it is wrong. Do you really think the writers did not choose how many DOs will appear in these scenes? Of course they did. But in the case of 507 and 510, they used to complete the dialogue to complete the info on-screen. The number is definitely not unknown.

      And, it is also not the topic of this thread, right? The question was about Zoso's appearances in S5, and I think we answered it :) The question of the number of DOs has already been discussed by admins, and how to write it too ^^ No need to worry about it :)

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    • As to the topic of the thread, yeah, but the two things are related. And I didn't know about admins discussing it.

      I still think that is an inconsistency, even if it is intentional, and it should be noted. I am sure many viewers are confused to see few Dark Ones becoming ~20 few episodes later.

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    • I didn't find it confusing at all. I assumed in scenes where not all the Dark Ones are able to be seen on screen, that they are simply behind the other Dark Ones. It makes sense. Just like if a bunch of people are at your doorway, you might not be able to see and count them all from where you are, but that doesn't mean they are not there.

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      I didn't find it confusing at all. I assumed in scenes where not all the Dark Ones are able to be seen on screen, that they are simply behind the other Dark Ones. It makes sense. Just like if a bunch of people are at your doorway, you might not be able to see and count them all from where you are, but that doesn't mean they are not there.

      if that were the case, then the person did not appear :P

      But fine, I understand that I'm minority on this matter so whatever ^^

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    • FrancisPaul wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      I didn't find it confusing at all. I assumed in scenes where not all the Dark Ones are able to be seen on screen, that they are simply behind the other Dark Ones. It makes sense. Just like if a bunch of people are at your doorway, you might not be able to see and count them all from where you are, but that doesn't mean they are not there.
      if that were the case, then the person did not appear :P

      But fine, I understand that I'm minority on this matter so whatever ^^

      I get that, as far as counting as an appearance. It's kind of hard, because we could say Zoso was one of the ones we see, or he's one of the ones we dont see, so yeah, I'm torn. Obviously, Zoso's actual actor didn't appear at all, so yeah, it's tricky.

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      FrancisPaul wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      I didn't find it confusing at all. I assumed in scenes where not all the Dark Ones are able to be seen on screen, that they are simply behind the other Dark Ones. It makes sense. Just like if a bunch of people are at your doorway, you might not be able to see and count them all from where you are, but that doesn't mean they are not there.
      if that were the case, then the person did not appear :P

      But fine, I understand that I'm minority on this matter so whatever ^^

      I get that, as far as counting as an appearance. It's kind of hard, because we could say Zoso was one of the ones we see, or he's one of the ones we dont see, so yeah, I'm torn. Obviously, Zoso's actual actor didn't appear at all, so yeah, it's tricky.

      Exactly!! At least I'm not crazy for thinking it is tricky ^^

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    • FrancisPaul wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      FrancisPaul wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      I didn't find it confusing at all. I assumed in scenes where not all the Dark Ones are able to be seen on screen, that they are simply behind the other Dark Ones. It makes sense. Just like if a bunch of people are at your doorway, you might not be able to see and count them all from where you are, but that doesn't mean they are not there.
      if that were the case, then the person did not appear :P

      But fine, I understand that I'm minority on this matter so whatever ^^

      I get that, as far as counting as an appearance. It's kind of hard, because we could say Zoso was one of the ones we see, or he's one of the ones we dont see, so yeah, I'm torn. Obviously, Zoso's actual actor didn't appear at all, so yeah, it's tricky.
      Exactly!! At least I'm not crazy for thinking it is tricky ^^

      The actor's a ppearance means nothing in counting appearances. If Green Smoke Zelena was raoming about, it still will count as an appearance.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      FrancisPaul wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      FrancisPaul wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      I didn't find it confusing at all. I assumed in scenes where not all the Dark Ones are able to be seen on screen, that they are simply behind the other Dark Ones. It makes sense. Just like if a bunch of people are at your doorway, you might not be able to see and count them all from where you are, but that doesn't mean they are not there.
      if that were the case, then the person did not appear :P

      But fine, I understand that I'm minority on this matter so whatever ^^

      I get that, as far as counting as an appearance. It's kind of hard, because we could say Zoso was one of the ones we see, or he's one of the ones we dont see, so yeah, I'm torn. Obviously, Zoso's actual actor didn't appear at all, so yeah, it's tricky.
      Exactly!! At least I'm not crazy for thinking it is tricky ^^
      The actor's a ppearance means nothing in counting appearances. If Green Smoke Zelena was raoming about, it still will count as an appearance.

      If Green Smoke Zelena was SEEN roaming about.

      I said nothing about the actor. The point here is that the character Zoso could be one of the Dark Ones that yes were there but were not seen

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    • FrancisPaul wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      FrancisPaul wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      FrancisPaul wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      I didn't find it confusing at all. I assumed in scenes where not all the Dark Ones are able to be seen on screen, that they are simply behind the other Dark Ones. It makes sense. Just like if a bunch of people are at your doorway, you might not be able to see and count them all from where you are, but that doesn't mean they are not there.
      if that were the case, then the person did not appear :P

      But fine, I understand that I'm minority on this matter so whatever ^^

      I get that, as far as counting as an appearance. It's kind of hard, because we could say Zoso was one of the ones we see, or he's one of the ones we dont see, so yeah, I'm torn. Obviously, Zoso's actual actor didn't appear at all, so yeah, it's tricky.
      Exactly!! At least I'm not crazy for thinking it is tricky ^^
      The actor's a ppearance means nothing in counting appearances. If Green Smoke Zelena was raoming about, it still will count as an appearance.
      If Green Smoke Zelena was SEEN roaming about.

      I said nothing about the actor. The point here is that the character Zoso could be one of the Dark Ones that yes were there but were not seen

      I wasn't responding you as much as reacting to a comment that you responded to.

      Zoso was there and that's that. There's nothing saying he wasn't, and that's the simplest way of proof.I mean there are a bajillion people in black robes and all Dark Ones was stated at least five times.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      FrancisPaul wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      FrancisPaul wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      FrancisPaul wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      I didn't find it confusing at all. I assumed in scenes where not all the Dark Ones are able to be seen on screen, that they are simply behind the other Dark Ones. It makes sense. Just like if a bunch of people are at your doorway, you might not be able to see and count them all from where you are, but that doesn't mean they are not there.
      if that were the case, then the person did not appear :P

      But fine, I understand that I'm minority on this matter so whatever ^^

      I get that, as far as counting as an appearance. It's kind of hard, because we could say Zoso was one of the ones we see, or he's one of the ones we dont see, so yeah, I'm torn. Obviously, Zoso's actual actor didn't appear at all, so yeah, it's tricky.
      Exactly!! At least I'm not crazy for thinking it is tricky ^^
      The actor's a ppearance means nothing in counting appearances. If Green Smoke Zelena was raoming about, it still will count as an appearance.
      If Green Smoke Zelena was SEEN roaming about.

      I said nothing about the actor. The point here is that the character Zoso could be one of the Dark Ones that yes were there but were not seen

      I wasn't responding you as much as reacting to a comment that you responded to.
       

      Zoso was there and that's that. There's nothing saying he wasn't, and that's the simplest way of proof.I mean there are a bajillion people in black robes and all Dark Ones was stated at least five times.

      So what about Vortigan,whats he then ? is he probably a orginal Dark One from wich the Darkness became immortal and from wich all other Dark Ones were born including Nimue,but my bigest ouestion is how did Vortigan acguire this power of Darkness ? .

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    • Kunica wrote:

      So what about Vortigan,whats he then ? is he probably a orginal Dark One from wich the Darkness became immortal and from wich all other Dark Ones were born including Nimue,but my bigest ouestion is how did Vortigan acguire this power of Darkness ? .

      Vortigan was just a creepy warlord that went around in a mask killing people to get the Grail.

      Nimue is the Original Dark One. She drunk from the Grail and gained power like Merlin, but corrupted it when she killed the warlord that killed her family. She is the first DO and the first human Dark Magic user that we've seen. Vortigan is just a normal, albeit creepy and evil, person.

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    • Ah ok,so he is just usles and normal warlord person,thats funny thing i never pictured Vortigan as a warlord because he dosent have any armor,sword or has shown any martial art in battle.

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    • Kunica wrote:
      Ah ok,so he is just usles and normal warlord person,thats funny thing i never pictured Vortigan as a warlord because he dosent have any armor,sword or has shown any martial art in battle.

      Managed to raid a village. Must have at least hired others to do it.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      Kunica wrote:
      Ah ok,so he is just usles and normal warlord person,thats funny thing i never pictured Vortigan as a warlord because he dosent have any armor,sword or has shown any martial art in battle.
      Managed to raid a village. Must have at least hired others to do it.

      That is preety much true,but why in hell whould he confront Merlin alone who has powerfull magic that can kill him,yes most of the warlords have armies,minons and servants .

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    • Kunica wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Kunica wrote:
      Ah ok,so he is just usles and normal warlord person,thats funny thing i never pictured Vortigan as a warlord because he dosent have any armor,sword or has shown any martial art in battle.
      Managed to raid a village. Must have at least hired others to do it.
      That is preety much true,but why in hell whould he confront Merlin alone who has powerfull magic that can kill him,yes most of the warlords have armies,minons and servants .

      The Army could have came down to budget. I guess Vortigan wasn't too smart, or he thought Merlin was too nice to hurt him.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      Kunica wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Kunica wrote:
      Ah ok,so he is just usles and normal warlord person,thats funny thing i never pictured Vortigan as a warlord because he dosent have any armor,sword or has shown any martial art in battle.
      Managed to raid a village. Must have at least hired others to do it.
      That is preety much true,but why in hell whould he confront Merlin alone who has powerfull magic that can kill him,yes most of the warlords have armies,minons and servants .
      The Army could have came down to budget. I guess Vortigan wasn't too smart, or he thought Merlin was too nice to hurt him.

      Yep thats also true.

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    • A Spy in the Mirror
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