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  • Boy is this new Emma dumb?! Or what

    Share your thoughts and more.

      Preparing Editor Spell
    • Worst ep ever! How they fucking thought it was a good one! No camelot conclusion, everything is rushed, unnecessary flashbacks, FUCKING GOLD AS THE DARK ONE AGAIN

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    • I agree, its the worst episode on this half of the season. Now gold is what?  tenfold more powerful than he used to, so that means no one can beat him in magical duel. SMH. Emma can barely beat merlin when she was the dark one, what more if she's the savior, with just light magic, that we saw on previous seasons, still has ways to go in order to be developed into a strong weapon. 

      And  I'm getting sick of the rumbelle scene of do the rigth think or i'll leave you. freaking so annoying. I feel like their whole story revolves around ultimatum etc when it comes to their relationship. Like do us a favor and leave rumple forever. This cycle has to end, because its getting really annoying and boring to watch. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I cried when Hook died and I'm pissed that I did.

      I freaking hate myself. XD I'm a sucker for deaths like that.

      But I still hated the episode. It was terribad. So much rehashing of old storylines, of old plots... Seriously outrageous.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • 90 percent through the episode......this is so predictable, but okay

      Last five minutes........ I think I must have slipped and hit myself on a rock.

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    • My god.... what a piece of crap

      JUST KILL RUMPLE ALREADY

      It's like they don't know what to write for him anymore


      What was the point of those flashbacks??

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Also:

      Eskaver wrote:
      Cheater! (Low blow to open a thread before the episode ends), but it'll okay XD


        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Before I post my full divulge and stuff, I must say that the writers shoudl get credit for pulling a twist out of freakin left field, but I do appreciate that they tried. I actually appreciate what they did although it took a lot of character and plot assassination to do so.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I am beoynd PISSED. I didn't realize that, like Lady Junky said, there was no Camelot conclusion (nor was there any conclusion to the flashbacks themselves, where was Regina being sworn to secrecy by Hook? Hook screwing over young Liam?).

      Then Rumple manages to destroy what little redemption he had? At least now we know he's rotten from the inside out and that has nothing to do with the Darkness.

      And THEY BANISHED ZELENA TO OZ. -_- Goodbye until 2018, Bex. I'll miss you.

      And despite the fact that no one from the main cast of characters WANTED to go to the Underworld, now all of them will?

      And why did Merlin say Nimue was the key to destroying the Darkness? She is now inside Rumple's head, so... Yeah. For a second, I thought Merlin would rise from the Underworld with the Dark Ones somehow and make her have a change of heart, but no...

      This episode was so... Messy.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Arctucrus wrote:
      Also:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Cheater! (Low blow to open a thread before the episode ends), but it'll okay XD

      People's timings are off because of the delay, so calm down.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:
      Arctucrus wrote:
      Also:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Cheater! (Low blow to open a thread before the episode ends), but it'll okay XD

      People's timings are off because of the delay, so calm down.

      Actually, the episode ended 10 minutes ago and you made the thread 30 minutes ago. Which you told me a month ago is cheating. :P

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Another post: I would like everyone to also rewatch the episode and share those opinions as well, but a few notes before my mega post.

      Please Once say that Season 4 was just a dream and Camelot and Brave were just Hook's fever dream while he was dying. Retcon it. Retcon it all. Ignore and Delete. I love this episode due to it's extreme Retconny.

      Love these writers! Gotta love them!

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I liked the episode, and I think it was a great setup for the motivation after the next half season. Season Six will probably be the last. Rumpelstiltskin is clearly the Big Bad of the series, and now is too powerful to battle. My guess is that along the way of trying to rescue Hook Emma, Regina, and the Storybrooke Scooby Gang will be granted powers from the Gods that will make it possible to battle on the same level as Gold. Thus leading to the final season and the final battle between good/evil (heroes/villains) Emma/Gold it's going to parallel  Season One with the exception that Regina will be good and Zelena will be Gold's henchwitch instead. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Before I post my full divulge and stuff, I must say that the writers shoudl get credit for pulling a twist out of freakin left field, but I do appreciate that they tried.


      Did you predict that Rumpelstiltskin would become the Dark One again?   Hmmm.  To be honest, I did.

      Regina and Zelena . . . sooo disappointing.  This was the best that the writers could do?  And besides, doesn't Zelena have the silver slippers back in Oz?


      Then again . . . this whole Dark Swan/Camelot story arc was just simply a big mess.  It made me long for the "Frozen" story arc again.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • It was interesting, and I like how we're have the New Nevengers are going to the Underworld (aka Apocalypse Storybrooke), but they did some weird things, like making Gold the Dark One (again). Guess destroying the Darkness will be the series finale (whenever they actually decide to do it). As far as things that annoy me: we got no conclusion to Camelot folks and Merida (even though we know they shot it) and we have yet another random half sibling of a main character. I swear we better find out what happened to Liam 2.0 at some point. Besides that though, I'm ready for the Underworld in March!

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Arctucrus wrote:
      Also:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Cheater! (Low blow to open a thread before the episode ends), but it'll okay XD

      People's timings are off because of the delay, so calm down.
      Actually, the episode ended 10 minutes ago and you made the thread 30 minutes ago. Which you told me a month ago is cheating. :P

      Well, then my timing is off. I always set it up at five minutes before 9 and then posted it.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • It seems Cruella's car died too and went to the underworld

      It seems it was an evil car hhahaha

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    • The first half seemed good, and then it went downhill.

      I knew Gold wouldn't change. He may not have been the DO anymore, but he was still the same man, with his flaws of cowardice and the greed for power. HA ha ha!

      This ship has sunk. Goodbye Rumbelle. It's going down slowly, but it's going down. It just hit an iceberg. No more chances for Rumple. No more excuses. He chose to be the DO this time. The end. I'm done.

      Yay, evil Rumple is back. I wouldn't have him any other way, and if that means sacrificing Rumbelle, so be it.

      Who was Killian's father? Davy Jones?

      Zombies. All the villians are zombies. In a debilitated Storybrooke. Weird. Where's Cruella?

      I'm so proud of Emma.

      What happened to change Hook's mind so quickly?

      Zelena is gone? No...... I'll miss her more than Hook. Seriously.

      Weird episode. It seems that everyone, including me, is slightly in shock.

      Give me more Greek mythology. I need Hercules and Megara to replace Rumbelle.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • This arc makes the Frozen arc look like Game of Thrones

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      I am beoynd PISSED. I didn't realize that, like Lady Junky said, there was no Camelot conclusion (nor was there any conclusion to the flashbacks themselves, where was Regina being sworn to secrecy by Hook? Hook screwing over young Liam?).

      Then Rumple manages to destroy what little redemption he had? At least now we know he's rotten from the inside out and that has nothing to do with the Darkness.

      And THEY BANISHED ZELENA TO OZ. -_- Goodbye until 2018, Bex. I'll miss you.

      And despite the fact that no one from the main cast of characters WANTED to go to the Underworld, now all of them will?

      And why did Merlin say Nimue was the key to destroying the Darkness? She is now inside Rumple's head, so... Yeah. For a second, I thought Merlin would rise from the Underworld with the Dark Ones somehow and make her have a change of heart, but no...

      This episode was so... Messy.

      Unless the Belle we see at the end is really Zelena in disguise, and Zelena will reveal that soon, and Zelena made Belle look like her and controled her, which Regina, thinking it was Zelena, then sent to Oz. Easy way to get rid of Emile for the rest of the season while she has her baby in real life, and then bring her back in Season 6.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • So tired of the Rumple is evil storyline. It makes no sense because they SAID that his heart is pure now, yet he still chooses darkness. In the process they just destroyed his entire character by proving beyond doubt that there is no good in him. This was his biggest chance to change and he betrayed everyone...for the tenth time.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:

      Who was Killian's father? Davy Jones?


      Brennan Jones, according to the press release.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • The flashback was pointless.... 

      I was hoping Hook had all of this planned and he was going to sacrifice itself, but noooooooooo

      they had to write this shitty Evil Queen/Hook flashback. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Ok, my mega post:

      - Flashback: It was okay and it was similar to how Malcolm (Rumple;s father sold him into servitude). This also explains why they became naval officers. It was also nice of them to use the sleeping curse which was better than any alternative way to explain. Plus, now all the villain cast killed their fathers.

      -EF stuff: Well, Hook is a bad, bad man, which I already knew and it was okay for what it was. Emotional, but still okay. Retcon was this season's theme. Bet the writers wished they had magic, right now. I swear all of this is some weird social experiment.

      -CGI was on point and Emma was about to throw a light ball instead of fire.

      - The Darkness theory was correct. Each DO siphoned away some of the HG power which is why the DO was never as strong as Merlin and was why Emma was not more powerful than Merlin, though she could have been.

      - Regina gets a power boost and that tornado was humorous, but sort of should have tossed the DOs out of there or at least Hook a while back.........silly Queen.

      Character stuff:

      - Snow and Emma'a moment was touching, but it was far too little, too late. Snow and David have been the debbie doubters this whole half season (unless this was all a wild feverish dream). Good acting though

      - Belle had the quickest turn around and I laughed how he lied to her and she didn;t see it, but then she realized he lied to her and came back. But then on top of that, he's tricking everyone again. I actually like that and finally I can say that Rumple and Belle will not get a happy ending as it should be.

      - Emma is the hero and is suppose to go on the hero's journey from Hell and back, but it's given to Hook. Emma is the 'SAVIOR', why isn't she saving? Stop taking away her glory! Let her sacrifice herself, but i guess that would be a tad redundant, but I don't think they care about redundancy.

      - They really need a new place to party. Always party during a crisis! They really need mental help.

      - Rumple should give all the magic bable and dramatic statements. Always more dramatic when they aren't.

      -Zelena's redemption hit a wall and she was "team Rocket'ed"

      - Camelot and crew may stick around, so you can probably say yay for those secondary characters you wanted, lol. I smell Lanceliot's mother coming up eventually. Nyx? A greek Goddess?

      - This new Emma (aka post season 3) is really, really dumb. How could she fall for that Henry glamour. I think she must have hit the dreamcatcher too hard and took away her intelligence too.

      Best thing of ALL TIME: Rumple is evil, was actually the smartest person and actually makes perfect sense because blank heart crap made no sense when he had the same memories.

      Now he's the Super Dark One! Yay!

      I'm actually happy, not at the weird stuff, but Rumple is my favorite character.

      (Did anyone think that when Hook died it was the end? I did and was like "Is this it?" but there was more.)

      This is a must rewatch! I really need help. I feel an uncontrollable fit of laughter.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Arctucrus wrote:
      Also:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Cheater! (Low blow to open a thread before the episode ends), but it'll okay XD

      People's timings are off because of the delay, so calm down.
      Actually, the episode ended 10 minutes ago and you made the thread 30 minutes ago. Which you told me a month ago is cheating. :P
      Well, then my timing is off. I always set it up at five minutes before 9 and then posted it.

      Mate we're yanking your hairs. We pulling ya leg!!

      It's OK. XD

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Boobfairy wrote:
      So tired of the Rumple is evil storyline. It makes no sense because they SAID that his heart is pure now, yet he still chooses darkness. In the process they just destroyed his entire character by proving beyond doubt that there is no good in him. This was his biggest chance to change and he betrayed everyone...for the tenth time.

      There is no good in him. He is rotten to the core.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • This show no longer has any sense of direction. I guess it hasn't for a long time, but now there isn't even much continuity between episodes, much less seasons. They retcon the plot before it's barely been developed. This show has the attention span of my orange tabby cat, Fred. 

      Seriously, I'm getting dizzy from all the circles we've been going in.

      Only full blown hold nothing back Greek mythology can bring this show back from the dead, for me at least.

      Rant over.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Boobfairy wrote:
      So tired of the Rumple is evil storyline. It makes no sense because they SAID that his heart is pure now, yet he still chooses darkness. In the process they just destroyed his entire character by proving beyond doubt that there is no good in him. This was his biggest chance to change and he betrayed everyone...for the tenth time.
      There is no good in him. He is rotten to the core.

      But we knew that. We all knew that blank slate was a cop out and it never changed who he was. We all saw he still used magic to solve his problems. Plus, he's a 300 year old addict. Surprised Emma could still hear it. Wouldn;t be surprised that she's still the DO.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Boobfairy wrote:
      So tired of the Rumple is evil storyline. It makes no sense because they SAID that his heart is pure now, yet he still chooses darkness. In the process they just destroyed his entire character by proving beyond doubt that there is no good in him. This was his biggest chance to change and he betrayed everyone...for the tenth time.
      There is no good in him. He is rotten to the core.
      But we knew that. We all knew that blank slate was a cop out and it never changed who he was. We all saw he still used magic to solve his problems. Plus, he's a 300 year old addict. Surprised Emma could still hear it. Wouldn;t be surprised that she's still the DO.

      I'm surprised Rumple couldn't see/hear anything when he was an ex-Dark One, since we now know that Emma can as the ex-Dark One.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Boobfairy wrote:
      So tired of the Rumple is evil storyline. It makes no sense because they SAID that his heart is pure now, yet he still chooses darkness. In the process they just destroyed his entire character by proving beyond doubt that there is no good in him. This was his biggest chance to change and he betrayed everyone...for the tenth time.
      There is no good in him. He is rotten to the core.
      But we knew that. We all knew that blank slate was a cop out and it never changed who he was. We all saw he still used magic to solve his problems. Plus, he's a 300 year old addict. Surprised Emma could still hear it. Wouldn;t be surprised that she's still the DO.
      I'm surprised Rumple couldn't see/hear anything when he was an ex-Dark One, since we now know that Emma can as the ex-Dark One.

      As I said perhaps Emma's still a little Dark, or perhaps Rumple did hear. I'm actuially glad he wasn't the out of nowhere hero. Plus, it's smart of Rumple.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • We all knew that blank slate was a cop out and it never changed who he was. 


      It wasn't a cop out.  It was an indication of Rumpel's second (or third or how many) chance.  He ruined it.  Which is not surprising, since he is a human beng.  How many chances did Regina, Emma, Zelena, Hook, David and Snow throw away?  How many chances did Robin throw away before he finally decided to give up being a thief for selfish reasons?  I don't see how a blank heart was a sign that Rumpel had become good.

      All of them still have evil within them.  It depends on whether they can control themselves or not.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CTrent29 wrote:
      We all knew that blank slate was a cop out and it never changed who he was. 


      I don't see how a blank heart was a sign that he was now good.

      Yeah, who would buy that crap. I think they tried to make us believe it and at least they actually showed that blank heart and one good deed doesn;t mean they are good.

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    •  I think they tried to make us believe it and at least they actually showed that blank heart and one good deed doesn;t mean they are good.


      It's possible that A&E suspected that many viewers would assume that Rumpel's blank heart would mean that he as good.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Ugh! I mean, Good lord, what is A+E's problem? Why can't they just have Rumple be good or at least stop pulling this  "oh, he never changed" crap?  Pick something for him, be if good or evil and keep it there. And seriously, no Camelot stuff? Way to make the whole arc pointless! And I feel no sympathy for Hook in flashback or otherwise. He ruined his half-brother's life to be petty and spiteful. If Rumple really is someone who chooses power over all, then Hook is something just as bid, if not worse: a guy who chooses revenge over all.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I totally predicted that Rumple would end up being the Dark One again at the beginning of the season. I also kinda predicted that Hook would die after last weeks episode.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I think we have faced the true wrath of the writers. Retcons occured and they did everything they had problems with.

      -Retcons

      - Random Magic dilly dally

      - Random timeline inconsistencies

      - Forcing Captain Swan as the Snowing comparison hardcore as they have done before

      - Deus ex machina

      - Disney fangrabs

      - Angst, tons of angst

      - Plot hoes

      I fele that they really rushed the way through. It probably would have been better if season 4 thru 5a was just hell and they all died when Rumple was consumed by Darkness upon ressurection and given the dagger back.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Oh, and now the made the Sleeping Curse look cheap. 

      I mean, you can fall in love with someone who was unconscious? And, even more, a TRUE LOVE able to break the Sleeping Curse

      My god...

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • MyPretties wrote:
      I totally predicted that Rumple would end up being the Dark One again at the beginning of the season. I also kinda predicted that Hook would die after last weeks episode.

      Kudos! I thoguht Rumple was going to either be some magical guide or both Emma and Gold would be Dark Ones.

      Hook';s death thoguh was predictable as ever.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Why would Henry call Belle? Does he even have her number? Why him? Why is Henry always the one that villians pose as?

      Something stinks here.

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    • 8Rob wrote:
      Oh, and now the made the Sleeping Curse look cheap. 

      I mean, you can fall in love with someone who was unconscious? And, even more, a TRUE LOVE able to break the Sleeping Curse

      My god...

      Let it pass. It goes back to the Fairytales of old. Read them and you see that Sleeping Beauty and Snow don't even know their princes and they were woken by TLK. A nice nod.

      Plus, chances are the writers could always say he was lying.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:
      Why would Henry call Belle? Does he even have her number? Why him? Why is Henry always the one that villians pose as?

      Something stinks here.

      Who knows! The real question is why would Emma fall for that?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Pick something for him, be if good or evil and keep it there.


      Human beings are not that simple.  We're too complicated.  Too ambiguous.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • 8Rob wrote:
      Oh, and now the made the Sleeping Curse look cheap. 

      I mean, you can fall in love with someone who was unconscious? And, even more, a TRUE LOVE able to break the Sleeping Curse

      My god...

      Yeah, wasn't it straight up stated in Enter the Dragon that Maleficent CREATED the Sleeping Curse? Granted, Kristin Bauer Von Straten said Maleficent was immortal but (and no offense to her) what does she know? So there's another retcon about the Sleeping Curse, since it's exitsted for at least 100 years. And it's cheapened now for sure.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      8Rob wrote:
      Oh, and now the made the Sleeping Curse look cheap. 

      I mean, you can fall in love with someone who was unconscious? And, even more, a TRUE LOVE able to break the Sleeping Curse

      My god...

      Yeah, wasn't it straight up stated in Enter the Dragon that Maleficent CREATED the Sleeping Curse? Granted, Kristin Bauer Von Straten said Maleficent was immortal but (and no offense to her) what does she know? So there's another retcon about the Sleeping Curse, since it's exitsted for at least 100 years. And it's cheapened now for sure.

      It isn't. Maleficent's immortal and as shown in a deleted scene. Rumple casted a sleeping spell on Rip Van Winkle to stay asleep for 100 years.

      So, I assume Maleficent made The Sleeping curse and they incorrectly say sleeping curse when they mean sleeping spell.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • im just mad about Rumple. They keep yoyo-ing with his character. It's so annoying. Be good or be bad. Make up your mind writters.

      I would've love if Rumple became the dark one again because the darkness was undestroyable. They wouldve have to pick someone strong enought to control it. And he would've volonteer. He would've become a good dark one. Since his heart was pure. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver
      Eskaver removed this reply because:
      Not on topic
      03:52, December 7, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • Tvfanatic wrote:
      im just mad about Rumple. They keep yoyo-ing with his character. It's so annoying. Be good or be bad. Make up your mind writters.

      I would've love if Rumple became the dark one again because the darkness was undestroyable. They wouldve have to pick someone strong enought to control it. And he would've volonteer. He would've become a good dark one. Since his heart was pure. 

      Yes! 100% agreed. And the sad thing is, this is the same show that either excuses or outright ignores when Hook or Regina have lapses. We're supposed to believe that those two are trying and everything they do inbetween no matter what is just bumps in the road. What is this weird double standard?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Avatar Beta wrote:
      Tvfanatic wrote:
      im just mad about Rumple. They keep yoyo-ing with his character. It's so annoying. Be good or be bad. Make up your mind writters.

      I would've love if Rumple became the dark one again because the darkness was undestroyable. They wouldve have to pick someone strong enought to control it. And he would've volonteer. He would've become a good dark one. Since his heart was pure. 

      Yes! 100% agreed. And the sad thing is, this is the same show that either excuses or outright ignores when Hook or Regina have lapses. We're supposed to believe that those two are trying and everything they do inbetween no matter what is just bumps in the road. What is this weird double standard?

      Well, Regina's doing slightly evil things to keep everyhting she ever wanted. Hook still has his temper and Rumple his desire for power. I would say that none of them really change........or the writers can't do redemption.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Quick Question- Why would Rumple inflict himself with the power that alsmot killed him?

      I have an answer. Besides the "protect my heart spell" gibberish, he's an addict and no matter how much it hurts, he'll always do it.

      I actually buy it and think that only his love for Bae ever had a chance to save him.

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    • great episode. does heaven exist the OUAT universe because everybody favorite characters is in the Underworld? I find that weird. also when gold killed pater pan he was a Adult now he is in the underworld as a kid? I found 2 things weird.

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    • Congratulation for the writers for making the last season and a half be really pointless..

      The characters are exactly at the same place they were in the season 3 finale minus the last two scenes and plus Hook is now dead (which I guess we can count him as Neal)

      Seriuosly, why would they make Rumple the dark one again?!? that is totally character reversion!

      Why would Emma want to go to the underworld to save the guy that tried to kill her family for just being pissed off at her?!

      No Camelot and Merida?! yes I hated them but they deserved better than that. But don't worry, I'm sure the deleted scene will be on the DVD so it will be "canon" sigh.

      And another pointless flashback that just retcon a good episode - 209. and suddenly Hook and Regina share a secret that was never mentioned before!

      This series ended at 311. A&E just make shit up until abc cancels them, they don't care about the story, they don't care about the characters. They only care about ships cause that's what gonna make the fans watch show so they'll have rating.

      I'm so not gonna buy the DVD of this season.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Farerb wrote:
      Congratulation for the writers for making the last season and a half be really pointless..

      The characters are exactly at the same place they were in the season 3 finale minus the last two scenes and plus Hook is now dead (which I guess we can count him as Neal)

      Seriuosly, why would they make Rumple the dark one again?!? that is totally character reversion!

      Why would Emma want to go to the underworld to save the guy that tried to kill her family for just being pissed off at her?!

      No Camelot and Merida?! yes I hated them but they deserved better than that. But don't worry, I'm sure the deleted scene will be on the DVD so it will be "canon" sigh.

      And another pointless flashback that just retcon a good episode - 209. and suddenly Hook and Regina share a secret that was never mentioned before!

      This series ended at 311. A&E just make shit up until abc cancels them, they don't care about the story, they don't care about the characters. They only care about ships cause that's what gonna make the fans watch show so they'll have rating.

      I'm so not gonna buy the DVD of this season.


      1. Well, it was already sort of pointless.

      2. Everyonme knows season 3 ended the show.

      3. I actually like this....if they did it in season 3 and cut out the midddle stuff of season 4 and 5a....which is what they probably do.

      4. This is new Emma. She must always find Hool because Shippy-wippy. Ships rule the characters, don't you know?

      5. They'll do that or maybe a bigger plan (hahahahahaha, doubt it).

      6. It could buy it as the timeline being a tad different. Had to make all the main character vilains kill their father.

      7. I don't know. Must really eb some experiment of society and intelligence.

      8. I never would either

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:
      Farerb wrote:
      Congratulation for the writers for making the last season and a half be really pointless..

      The characters are exactly at the same place they were in the season 3 finale minus the last two scenes and plus Hook is now dead (which I guess we can count him as Neal)

      Seriuosly, why would they make Rumple the dark one again?!? that is totally character reversion!

      Why would Emma want to go to the underworld to save the guy that tried to kill her family for just being pissed off at her?!

      No Camelot and Merida?! yes I hated them but they deserved better than that. But don't worry, I'm sure the deleted scene will be on the DVD so it will be "canon" sigh.

      And another pointless flashback that just retcon a good episode - 209. and suddenly Hook and Regina share a secret that was never mentioned before!

      This series ended at 311. A&E just make shit up until abc cancels them, they don't care about the story, they don't care about the characters. They only care about ships cause that's what gonna make the fans watch show so they'll have rating.

      I'm so not gonna buy the DVD of this season.


      1. Well, it was already sort of pointless.

      2. Everyonme knows season 3 ended the show.

      3. I actually like this....if they did it in season 3 and cut out the midddle stuff of season 4 and 5a....which is what they probably do.

      4. This is new Emma. She must always find Hool because Shippy-wippy. Ships rule the characters, don't you know?

      5. They'll do that or maybe a bigger plan (hahahahahaha, doubt it).

      6. It could buy it as the timeline being a tad different. Had to make all the main character vilains kill their father.

      7. I don't know. Must really eb some experiment of society and intelligence.

      8. I never would either

      about 3 I agree, but it wold have been Neal which would make sense.

      I don't get why everyone goes to the underworld to save Hook, even Rumple.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I was recalling Rumpelstiltskin's description of the Underworld in this episode.  If one regard it with clear eyes, it is basically a realm for the dead.  That's it.  Why is society - especially in fiction - determined to paint the Underworld in such a negative light?



      Why would Emma want to go to the underworld to save the guy that tried to kill her family for just being pissed off at her?!

      Because she is basically responsible for what led to Hook's attempts to kill her family in the first place.  She is the one who made him a Dark One.  He didn't volunteer for the role.  Nor did he commit murder to become one.  Or are you guys still going to pretend that Emma had no role in Hook's actions as the Dark One?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Because the ship must sail on.

      Think of it closely and you see,

      A man tries to kill all of your family, but has a last minute change of heart and you kill him. Now you and them and his nemesis will go to save him because love says it's unfair. What?

      Hook died fair and square. Emma still hasn't learned that it was fair and she needs to let him go. I don't think the writers know logic. If Hook walks out scot free, then what they are saying is that Emma selfishly defied true love to keep Hook with her and gave into Darkness. Now Emma is going to go into the Underworld to bring him back, which is what got her in this trouble in the first place.

      First it was Hook who gave up his all, his ship, but then got it back which negates that whole act. Then it's Regina who gets everything she wants and still rips hearts and steal kids (lol). Now, it's Emma defying fate and causing chaos to selfishly save Hook and now she will do it again.

      I think they need to put away the Crimson crown and start rehab.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      Farerb wrote:
      Congratulation for the writers for making the last season and a half be really pointless..

      The characters are exactly at the same place they were in the season 3 finale minus the last two scenes and plus Hook is now dead (which I guess we can count him as Neal)

      Seriuosly, why would they make Rumple the dark one again?!? that is totally character reversion!

      Why would Emma want to go to the underworld to save the guy that tried to kill her family for just being pissed off at her?!

      No Camelot and Merida?! yes I hated them but they deserved better than that. But don't worry, I'm sure the deleted scene will be on the DVD so it will be "canon" sigh.

      And another pointless flashback that just retcon a good episode - 209. and suddenly Hook and Regina share a secret that was never mentioned before!

      This series ended at 311. A&E just make shit up until abc cancels them, they don't care about the story, they don't care about the characters. They only care about ships cause that's what gonna make the fans watch show so they'll have rating.

      I'm so not gonna buy the DVD of this season.


      1. Well, it was already sort of pointless.

      2. Everyonme knows season 3 ended the show.

      3. I actually like this....if they did it in season 3 and cut out the midddle stuff of season 4 and 5a....which is what they probably do.

      4. This is new Emma. She must always find Hool because Shippy-wippy. Ships rule the characters, don't you know?

      5. They'll do that or maybe a bigger plan (hahahahahaha, doubt it).

      6. It could buy it as the timeline being a tad different. Had to make all the main character vilains kill their father.

      7. I don't know. Must really eb some experiment of society and intelligence.

      8. I never would either

      Timeline IS different, remember? Hook and Emma's little escapade?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Agree.

      Hook was dying in Camelot, he asked Emma to leave him rest in peace... and what did she do? She turned him into the Dark One

      And Hook asked Emma to leave him die as a hero.... and what does she do? She goes to the Underworld to bring him back

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    • I see it now.  You just want Emma to let go of Hook for good because you don't like him.  This isn't about how evil he is or her repsonsibility on what led him to become the Dark One.  You don't like Hook and you just want him gone.  And you're willing to cling to any excuse - even if it means turning a blind eye to Emma's role in the whole matter.  You want to pretend that Hook isn't worthy to be Emma's mate.  You know what.  You'e entitled to your opinion.  Pardon me for not buying it.


      I would hope that Hook and Emma stay together until the end of this series.  But you know what?  I'm guess I'm like you in the end.  I can't support a romance in which I actively dislike one of the participants.  And in my case . . . that participant is Emma Swan.  Quite frankly, I cannot stand her.  

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    • Oh yeah I forgot. Emma saying "I will always find you" at the end was so out of character. That's not even her line! She used to be pragmatic.

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    • Emma won't tell Belle about Rumple. The heroes really don't give a shit about her, do they?

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    • Farerb wrote:
      Oh yeah I forgot. Emma saying "I will always find you" at the end was so out of character. That's not even her line! She used to be pragmatic.

      Lol, should I remind you of "I will not let his last death be in vain" or soemthing like that. Season 2 Emma had some cringey lines.

      That line was to show that CS is Snowing, even though they haven't earned it at all. Snow and David seem like real love, while Emma is disregarding Hook's wishes and Hook is threatening and almost killed Emma's family counltess times 9well, less than Regina, but up there.) They are the scum underneath Snowing's boots. That's the closest they are to being that couple and it did not warrant that line. Because Emma was going back to her dark self again.

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    • Farerb wrote:
      Emma won't tell Belle about Rumple. The heroes really don't give a shit about her, do they?

      Lol

      No. They don't... 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • 8Rob wrote:
      Farerb wrote:
      Emma won't tell Belle about Rumple. The heroes really don't give a shit about her, do they?
      Lol

      No. They don't... 

      Of course not. Belle is abused by everyone.

      I'm telling you this is an experiment. They literally have made no one rmeotely likable or good. Some are fun and you like, but they tarnish everything else.

      BELLE:They don;t care about Belle. Belle sacrifices herself for them. And Belle is back to being in that abusive relationship again. Remeber this show is about strong female characters

      EMMA: Emma is doing the same dark thing to save Hook all over agian because she can't live without her man. She must risk the lives of her family to save that hot peice of man meat that just risked the loves of her family. Remeber this show is about Strong FEMALE characters.

      SNOW: Snow has doubted Emma this entire time and has never lifted a finger to help her daughter when she needed her most. Now, she fights for her daughter to have a man in her life...I mean love. Yeah, love and hope. Remeber this show is about strong female characters. Snow is also leaving her child to be raised by nuns. Yes, this show is about mothers....very, very bad ones.

      REGINA: Inserts herself into Robin and Zelena's affairs and banishes the child's mother, only to leave the child and Robin's child that he's never with, with nuns. This is the prime example of a good mother, right?

      Let's not get started on Plot, or anything else.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      MyPretties wrote:
      I totally predicted that Rumple would end up being the Dark One again at the beginning of the season. I also kinda predicted that Hook would die after last weeks episode.

      Kudos! I thoguht Rumple was going to either be some magical guide or both Emma and Gold would be Dark Ones.

      Hook';s death thoguh was predictable as ever.

      Yeah, because Hook was turned into a Dark One, the only logical ending to that was his death. I don't think Hook's death will be permanent though, he's too much of a fan favorite for them to kill off permanently.

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    • Not horrible, but I was expecting better. The fight against the dark ones was underwhelming, Zelena may or may not return, and now we're back to the status quo, except now Rumple is even more powerful so now the only way to stop him is to somehow get the dagger, or hope Emma is now the light one and just as powerful as him. Plus, Merlin, my 3rd favorite character (after Neal/Baelfire and Henry) is now dead. Ultimately pretty underwhelming, and pretty predictable. I theorized that Emma would try to do it all alone, that she'd try to sacrifice herself, and that then ultimately Hook would do it instead at the last minute, and die, and that then Emma would go to the underworld and try to get Hook back. Oh, and I even considered the idea that Rumple wouldn't be able to live without his power, and that he'd do something to get it back! Figures, because he's one of the writer's favorites. They can't do the show without him, in their opinion. Oh, and the Dark Ones had no real plan other than 'run around the small town of storybrooke, wreaking havoc on them all'. And now, assuming that Rumple isn't going with them, he's now free to get back to what he set out to do in the first place, what put them all in that big mess; use the hat to cleave himself from the dagger. And how did the sword get destroyed (which should be indestructible) and how did the dagger return?

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    • My only problem with this episode is that they didn't close out the King Arthur storyline, well unless they're gonna have him escape from jail and terrorize Storybrooke while all of the main characters head down to the Underworld.

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    • I don't know why people are complaining about this episode. I thought it was the best episode in the series so far. The only character I found irritating is Gold, mainly due to the fact that he was willing to sacrifice Emma to take back his power. But I felt it could realistically go any other way. In fact, I loved the way Emma's relationship with Hook mirrors her parents' relationship.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      8Rob wrote:
      Oh, and now the made the Sleeping Curse look cheap. 

      I mean, you can fall in love with someone who was unconscious? And, even more, a TRUE LOVE able to break the Sleeping Curse

      My god...

      Yeah, wasn't it straight up stated in Enter the Dragon that Maleficent CREATED the Sleeping Curse? Granted, Kristin Bauer Von Straten said Maleficent was immortal but (and no offense to her) what does she know? So there's another retcon about the Sleeping Curse, since it's exitsted for at least 100 years. And it's cheapened now for sure.

      To be fair, who says Mal isn't the one who cursed him? It's been implyed she is actually quite old.

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    • MBrody wrote:
      I don't know why people are complaining about this episode. I thought it was the best episode in the series so far. The only character I found irritating is Gold, mainly due to the fact that he was willing to sacrifice Emma to take back his power. But I felt it could realistically go any other way. In fact, I loved the way Emma's relationship with Hook mirrors her parents' relationship.

      I wish Neal was back... Emma and Neal were so much better than Emma and Hook. Sure, it would've made this storyline harder, but still... 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:

      Farerb wrote:
      Oh yeah I forgot. Emma saying "I will always find you" at the end was so out of character. That's not even her line! She used to be pragmatic.

      Lol, should I remind you of "I will not let his last death be in vain" or soemthing like that. Season 2 Emma had some cringey lines.

      That line was to show that CS is Snowing, even though they haven't earned it at all. Snow and David seem like real love, while Emma is disregarding Hook's wishes and Hook is threatening and almost killed Emma's family counltess times 9well, less than Regina, but up there.) They are the scum underneath Snowing's boots. That's the closest they are to being that couple and it did not warrant that line. Because Emma was going back to her dark self again.

      Emma seems to be still a dark one. Her actions now seem to make her a bit selfish when Hook recently said she has to let him go before he died. They still have to remove the darkness out of her.

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    • Lady Junky wrote:
      Worst ep ever! How they fucking thought it was a good one! No camelot conclusion, everything is rushed, unnecessary flashbacks, FUCKING GOLD AS THE DARK ONE AGAIN

      finally someone agrees the show suck so hard it fails.

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    • I don't know about you or what this theme for the whole season is about. But I think the moral of this season is we can't carry the torch of our loved ones forever and we must learn to let go. At least it is what it sounds like. What do you think?

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    • NickyHelp wrote:
      I don't know about you or what this theme for the whole season is about. But I think the moral of this season is we can't carry the torch of our loved ones forever and we must learn to let go. At least it is what it sounds like. What do you think?

      Theme of 5A was "love is a dangerous weapon". Theme of 5B is "how the past comes back to haunt you".

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    • Well this episode was crap. I'm not enraged entirely but I this is almost The Tower level of bad.

      • No conclusion to the Camealot gang/Merida. The past A arcs (Neverland, Frozen) stuck with their arc and characters to the last episode. This is something of B arc finale where the villain (Zelena, QOD) are forgotten and a random bad guy appears. Do they even care?
      • Nimue was the highlight as always. She is just so cool. How they defeated her and the DO was very underwhelming. The army battle in the Bear King was way better.
      • I tried to not hate Regina but I just can't help it. Now I probably won't see Cora and Zelena interaction. Also, Does she know what she has done? She sent the mother of a child that isn't any of her business anyway to a land where she has magic, can rule it, can turn people into an army of monkeys and has silver slippers to travel back anyway! Way to go Regina. I will miss Zelena though.
      • Why can't Emma just leave Hook to die. I don't hate him but I don't care if he dies. He flat out says he just wants to die but Emma just wants to resurrect him TWICE. Well the Nevengers are the only people in Storybrooke other than dwarves, doctors and fairies so her options for true love are limited.
      • I actually cared a little when Hook died.
      • Rumple is the DO again and evil... again. Can they just pick a side with the character? Rumbelle has officially sunk.

      So despite Swan Song being a terrible episode, the promo for Souls of the Departed is so f-ing exciting! Cora, Pan and Blind Witch are back and I am so ready for Greek mythology and Hercules.

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:

      NickyHelp wrote:
      I don't know about you or what this theme for the whole season is about. But I think the moral of this season is we can't carry the torch of our loved ones forever and we must learn to let go. At least it is what it sounds like. What do you think?

      Theme of 5A was "love is a dangerous weapon". Theme of 5B is "how the past comes back to haunt you".

      No I mean for the whole arc. Like season 3 When Emma still feels like an orphan from 3A to 3B.

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    • NickyHelp wrote:

      CoolDudeAl wrote:

      NickyHelp wrote:
      I don't know about you or what this theme for the whole season is about. But I think the moral of this season is we can't carry the torch of our loved ones forever and we must learn to let go. At least it is what it sounds like. What do you think?
      Theme of 5A was "love is a dangerous weapon". Theme of 5B is "how the past comes back to haunt you".
      No I mean for the whole arc. Like season 3 When Emma still feels like an orphan from 3A to 3B.

      Oh, I would say it's Emma and Hook and their Romeo and Juliet story this season. XD

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    • Some thoughts:

      - Loved the Rumple twist at the end. Hook dying to make up for what he had done and the gang travelling to the underworld to save him was kind of predictable after all the hints we have been given. But really didn't see that bit about Rumple pulling a fast one over everyone coming. 

      - Hook suddenly changing his mind and deciding to save everyone seemed a little forced to me. The flashback showed him killing his father for his revenge. How is that suppoesd to tie in with him giving up his vengeance to be a hero?

      - Why would anyone put a sleeping curse on a fugitive? Why not just execute him or throw him in prison? 

      - Is it really possible to fall in love (and True Love at that) with someone whom you have never interacted with? It sounds like something psychologists would have a name for (xxx Syndrome or something).

      - Emma getting fooled by Hook as Henry?!? How come her superpower never works at times like these?

      - Why can't everyone just leave the town using that anti-shapeshifting potion that Rumple has? Won't that keep them safe from the DOs until the night is over and then they can just move back in.

      - Wonder if we would see Hook's little brother again? And how would he feel about Hook killing their father.

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    • I have mixed feelings about this episode. Starts with the pond. So conveniently there's a portal to the underworld (Hellmouth) right in Storybrook that's never mentioned.

      What Regina did was wrong, wrong, wrong. If Zelena doesn't find her way back, just how will they explain it to her daughter?

      Liam 2.0 is someone important. I know it.

      Rumple...I don't know. What's his purpose now? Control Belle, keep her around? And I need to go back, where did that dagger come from?

      Hook's death: Buffy and Angel, anyone? Hook/Angel awakens evil from Hell, Emma/Buffy stabs him with a sword to stop it.

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    • Soozin27 wrote:
      I have mixed feelings about this episode. Starts with the pond. So conveniently there's a portal to the underworld (Hellmouth) right in Storybrook that's never mentioned.

      What Regina did was wrong, wrong, wrong. If Zelena doesn't find her way back, just how will they explain it to her daughter?

      Liam 2.0 is someone important. I know it.

      Rumple...I don't know. What's his purpose now? Control Belle, keep her around? And I need to go back, where did that dagger come from?

      Hook's death: Buffy and Angel, anyone? Hook/Angel awakens evil from Hell, Emma/Buffy stabs him with a sword to stop it.

      Except that what happened to Angel was an accident while Emma chose to turn Hook to be the dark one. Also, Buffy didn't drag everybody she knows to hell to save him.

      But yeah, I see your point. They pretty much took that scene from Buffy.

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    • Speaking of Buffy, am I the only getting the sense of shade thrown at A&E by Jane in this tweet?

      https://twitter.com/JaneEspenson/status/673745842117853185

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    • Haaaa, I think she's saying nothing will ever be as good as Buffy. New thread there? lol.

      ....Willow didn't have to GO get Buffy when Buffy died, Willow brought Buffy to her.

      But I digress...

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    • What if Hook's father ends up being named Davy, as in Davy Jones.  Not the Pirates of the Carribean version but the old legand of Davy Jones.  I have a feeling Hook will see his father in Hell so it is likely we will get a name for him when the main characters meet him.  If nothing else they could name him Davy Jones just as a nod to the legend.

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    • The moment Regina whisked Zelena away, I started hoping for 'Once Upon a Time in Oz'. Fingers crossed for that. :P

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    • I realy can't tell how disapointed I am of this episode. First of I realy enjoy watching Rumplestiltskin as the dark one (he is just like Scar in Lion King and Jago in Othello)...but With this episode they destroyed my hopes of him getting a happy ending, eventhought he was the only character in my opinion (of course) to deserve a redemption, just like in the mid seasonfinale of season 3. That was the best Rumple we ever get, that actually was a CHARACTER back then... now he is just a generic villain, how sad. 

      By the Way, even drug addicts can be helped, on the other hand, he would propably need a 600 year long rehab ;-) 

      On another note: this season's arc WASN'T Cammelot, it was the "DARK SWAN" therfore, they didn't need to close it that badly. Don't get me wrong I hated how they threw away the camelot arc, which could have been a great arc. The Idea introduced in the broken Kingdom, of a mad man trying to preserve his fantasy (like a doll house) was brilliant to say the least (Still only my oppinion).

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      MyPretties wrote:
      I totally predicted that Rumple would end up being the Dark One again at the beginning of the season. I also kinda predicted that Hook would die after last weeks episode.
      Kudos! I thoguht Rumple was going to either be some magical guide or both Emma and Gold would be Dark Ones.

      Hook';s death thoguh was predictable as ever.

      Which might be the Real case! I think Emma is still a Dark One.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      Quick Question- Why would Rumple inflict himself with the power that alsmot killed him?

      I have an answer. Besides the "protect my heart spell" gibberish, he's an addict and no matter how much it hurts, he'll always do it.

      I actually buy it and think that only his love for Bae ever had a chance to save him.

      Maybe what Merlin said will come to pass! That one day somebody will controll the Darkness. In a way Rumple changed and the man becoming the Dark One this time is diffrent. Plus, his new child with Belle will change him again. Also, his tale is Beauty and the Beast. And Belle loves the Beast (which is DO Rumple).

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    • So are we to assume Camelot and Merida have stayed in Storybrooke for the time being?

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    • I've been wondering if Excalibur is linked to Immortals, due to being formerly the Holy Grail, does that mean that either half of the blade could've been used to kill Merlin or Rumple? For example, Rumple is binded to the dagger, but would he be able to be killed with sword half? As for the dagger, I'm under the impression it became essentially the shrunken Excalibur.

      When Rumple became the Dark One again, I would've liked to see Emma quickly take the dagger from him and use it to control him. Also would've been funny if he thought Emma was the voice in the head; then again considering he's been the Dark One for centuries and probably the longest, he probably knows the difference between what's the voice or the real thing.

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    • The theme of this episode was being the person you want to be.

      Hook choose to be a villain. He chose to be a martyr.

      Regina chose to given to her rage and banish Zelena.

      Rumple chose to given into his lust for power and do some magic crap to become the DO.

      Emma chose to continue in the path of selfish, selfish love.

      Hail Hero Hook. Long live KillyWiillykins the Good.

      Yeah, I.........no words for this epiosde, but i did sort of quasi love it.

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    • CTrent29 wrote:
      Before I post my full divulge and stuff, I must say that the writers shoudl get credit for pulling a twist out of freakin left field, but I do appreciate that they tried.


      Did you predict that Rumpelstiltskin would become the Dark One again?   Hmmm.  To be honest, I did.

      Regina and Zelena . . . sooo disappointing.  This was the best that the writers could do?  And besides, doesn't Zelena have the silver slippers back in Oz?


      Then again . . . this whole Dark Swan/Camelot story arc was just simply a big mess.  It made me long for the "Frozen" story arc again.

      Can I just say that some of us really enjoyed the Frozen arc. I realise it was not to everyones liking but personally I loved it and IMO Ingrid is my favourite "villain" so far. Well, favouirte misunderstood person. So can we please be mindful of the fact that there is no need to continually bash the frozen arc????!!!!!!!! 

      Personally I thought this 5A was just a huge mess and it's the first one I actually didn't enjoy. 

      Sorry for ranting. Now to the episode. 

      Regina banishing Zelena was my favourite part to this. I didn't agree with it, but I enjoyed the scene. 

      Why do we need Hook flashbacks that go nowhere? I personally am not a fan of Hook and can leave him in the underworld.

      Why did we not see Merida? Camelot? Jeez. I mean Urusla and kinda Maleficent were (to me at least) let downs, due to the characters they were based on. I mean they were based on awesome characters and the OUAT versions are just IMO pitiful. But his whole arc has been one huge let down, Merlin anyone?

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    • Do you suppose Emma's actions are parallel to Regina near the ending of season 4 where she learns her lesson?

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    • when I saw Emma and the other going to hell. I was thinking about the song Highway to hell. lol

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    • NickyHelp wrote:
      Do you suppose Emma's actions are parallel to Regina near the ending of season 4 where she learns her lesson?

      Nope, that was what Hook just did this episode. I wouldn't out it past the writers to do it again, but they will save Hook which Emma should learn to not do and it also defies the laws of magic.

      I'm starting to think shippers run the show.

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    • 1. i hate that rumple is the DO again, can't stand him anymore. 

      2. how did he get the top of the dagger anyway? and wouldnt emma then not be the DO anymore? which explains her lack of magic and evilness, but not why she still looks evil.

      3. emma being the DO was a let-down overall. not much evilness ever. 

      4. nimue was supposed to be the last hope. nothing ever came out of that...

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    • I was so underwhelemed by this episode and like everyone else said, it was boring and predictable. It was painfully obvious Hook would die and even then I wasn't phased one bit because he's the spouse of the main character of course he would make a comeback. They need to end this horrible show ugh. i am actually tempted to quit the show after seeing this crap. i'm not surprised that RUMPLE went back to being evil thoughusing his loophole shit. Just because someone doesn't have any darkness doesn't mean he's a different person. He still values power and he's still a coward. It's how he became the Dark one in the first place smh at this episode. I was hoping that we would at least get ONE showdown but all we got were a bunch of hooded extras prolonging Halloween. As predicted Zelena did next to nothing this season and the show literally would not have been any different without her presence. Now she's back to beung a guest star. Pathetic

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    • I have mixed feeling about this episode overall but there were a few 'good scenes'.   

      I like Gold as a villian but feel sorry for the people who love Rumbelle but wonder if that last scene w/ him gettig out of bed is their way of having Belle be pregnant and then the new baby becomes the thing to truly change Gold.  We know he loved Bae and wanted to be better for Bae and we also know that Henry was what started Regina's redemption.  Would a new baby redeem Gold?

      Zelena is in Oz?   I thought I read that Bex said she filmed w/ Colin/Jmo for 5-13.  How does she end up in the UW?

      And yes, the Camelot gang, as well as why Merlin would tell them that Nimue was the answer to defeating the darkness was left hanging....myabe he'll be back. 

      Think papa jones will be Hook's guide in the UW?

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    • Frulna wrote:
      What if Hook's father ends up being named Davy, as in Davy Jones.  Not the Pirates of the Carribean version but the old legand of Davy Jones.  I have a feeling Hook will see his father in Hell so it is likely we will get a name for him when the main characters meet him.  If nothing else they could name him Davy Jones just as a nod to the legend.

      His name is Brennan.

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    • Rumple usually confesses his true intentions to only Belle and sometimes Regina. So hopefully, his plan was to become the Dark One again so he would not be targetted as a precaution, go look for Belle past the town line, and maybe look for the others in the Underworld, plus Neal. He does everything for a reason, and the switch seemed too random.

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    • WorldHopper22 wrote:
      Rumple usually confesses his true intentions to only Belle and sometimes Regina. So hopefully, his plan was to become the Dark One again so he would not be targetted as a precaution, go look for Belle past the town line, and maybe look for the others in the Underworld, plus Neal. He does everything for a reason, and the switch seemed too random.

      It's because he's evil! Not that I think that's a valid reason, but the writers seem to think so. He's addicted as they would say.

      That's about it. Rumple is devolving into a cartoon villain.

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    • What they may plan to do for the journey will not be easy and simple.

      I thought they explained in the episode that if Emma and Killian share a heart then no one has to die for him to be revived.

      But obviously the fact that they are explaining this before 5B even starts means that things aren't going to work out so easily. A bigger sacrifice will probably be needed besides Emma just sharing her heart with Hook so someone will most likely die.

      It's most likely going to be way more complicated than sharing a heart and leaving the UW.

      What do you think?

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    • NickyHelp wrote:
      What they may plan to do for the journey will not be easy and simple.

      I thought they explained in the episode that if Emma and Killian share a heart then no one has to die for him to be revived.

      But obviously the fact that they are explaining this before 5B even starts means that things aren't going to work out so easily. A bigger sacrifice will probably be needed besides Emma just sharing her heart with Hook so someone will most likely die.

      It's most likely going to be way more complicated than sharing a heart and leaving the UW.

      Thye won't be sharing a heart because.....Emma's heart can't be ripped out. Did she forget that?

      Plus, she could have stuck it in his body and the journey to the Underworld wouldn't be important. I don't think they should have let Emma lead since she is clearly not thinking straight.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:

      NickyHelp wrote:
      What they may plan to do for the journey will not be easy and simple.

      I thought they explained in the episode that if Emma and Killian share a heart then no one has to die for him to be revived.

      But obviously the fact that they are explaining this before 5B even starts means that things aren't going to work out so easily. A bigger sacrifice will probably be needed besides Emma just sharing her heart with Hook so someone will most likely die.

      It's most likely going to be way more complicated than sharing a heart and leaving the UW.

      Thye won't be sharing a heart because.....Emma's heart can't be ripped out. Did she forget that?

      Plus, she could have stuck it in his body and the journey to the Underworld wouldn't be important. I don't think they should have let Emma lead since she is clearly not thinking straight.

      Then I am lost on that. What do you think might happen? You think she might realize that and might have to learn to move on (which might be unlikely)? I am so confused and obsessed of what might or will truly happen in the end of the season. Mostly because I am so excited.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • NickyHelp wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:

      NickyHelp wrote:
      What they may plan to do for the journey will not be easy and simple.

      I thought they explained in the episode that if Emma and Killian share a heart then no one has to die for him to be revived.

      But obviously the fact that they are explaining this before 5B even starts means that things aren't going to work out so easily. A bigger sacrifice will probably be needed besides Emma just sharing her heart with Hook so someone will most likely die.

      It's most likely going to be way more complicated than sharing a heart and leaving the UW.

      Thye won't be sharing a heart because.....Emma's heart can't be ripped out. Did she forget that?

      Plus, she could have stuck it in his body and the journey to the Underworld wouldn't be important. I don't think they should have let Emma lead since she is clearly not thinking straight.

      Then I am lost on that. What do you think might happen? You think she might realize that and might have to learn to move on (which might be unlikely)? I am so confused and obsessed of what might or will truly happen in the end of the season. Mostly because I am so excited.


      Well, we don;t know. You'd have to look into spoilers (which this thread is not).

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:

      NickyHelp wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:

      NickyHelp wrote:
      What they may plan to do for the journey will not be easy and simple.

      I thought they explained in the episode that if Emma and Killian share a heart then no one has to die for him to be revived.

      But obviously the fact that they are explaining this before 5B even starts means that things aren't going to work out so easily. A bigger sacrifice will probably be needed besides Emma just sharing her heart with Hook so someone will most likely die.

      It's most likely going to be way more complicated than sharing a heart and leaving the UW.

      Thye won't be sharing a heart because.....Emma's heart can't be ripped out. Did she forget that?

      Plus, she could have stuck it in his body and the journey to the Underworld wouldn't be important. I don't think they should have let Emma lead since she is clearly not thinking straight.

      Then I am lost on that. What do you think might happen? You think she might realize that and might have to learn to move on (which might be unlikely)? I am so confused and obsessed of what might or will truly happen in the end of the season. Mostly because I am so excited.


      Well, we don;t know. You'd have to look into spoilers (which this thread is not).

      About spoilers, how long do you think we will get more spoilers and info for the next arc? Late Febuary or something?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • NickyHelp wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:

      NickyHelp wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:


      NickyHelp wrote:
      What they may plan to do for the journey will not be easy and simple.

      I thought they explained in the episode that if Emma and Killian share a heart then no one has to die for him to be revived.

      But obviously the fact that they are explaining this before 5B even starts means that things aren't going to work out so easily. A bigger sacrifice will probably be needed besides Emma just sharing her heart with Hook so someone will most likely die.

      It's most likely going to be way more complicated than sharing a heart and leaving the UW.

      Thye won't be sharing a heart because.....Emma's heart can't be ripped out. Did she forget that?

      Plus, she could have stuck it in his body and the journey to the Underworld wouldn't be important. I don't think they should have let Emma lead since she is clearly not thinking straight.

      Then I am lost on that. What do you think might happen? You think she might realize that and might have to learn to move on (which might be unlikely)? I am so confused and obsessed of what might or will truly happen in the end of the season. Mostly because I am so excited.

      Well, we don;t know. You'd have to look into spoilers (which this thread is not).
      About spoilers, how long do you think we will get more spoilers and info for the next arc? Late Febuary or something?

      Probably. But you should check the spoilers board and not this part of the forum.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:

      Thye won't be sharing a heart because.....Emma's heart can't be ripped out. Did she forget that?

      Plus, she could have stuck it in his body and the journey to the Underworld wouldn't be important. I don't think they should have let Emma lead since she is clearly not thinking straight.

      It is very possible that Emma can rip out her own heart, similar to how Henry was able to. I got the impression, that part of the reason they need to retrieve Hook from the Underworld, is because his body is beyond repair. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      Thye won't be sharing a heart because.....Emma's heart can't be ripped out. Did she forget that?

      Plus, she could have stuck it in his body and the journey to the Underworld wouldn't be important. I don't think they should have let Emma lead since she is clearly not thinking straight.

      It is very possible that Emma can rip out her own heart, similar to how Henry was able to. I got the impression, that part of the reason they need to retrieve Hook from the Underworld, is because his body is beyond repair. 

      But anyone from the Underworld is non-corporeal.......

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:

      NickyHelp wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:

      NickyHelp wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:


      NickyHelp wrote:
      What they may plan to do for the journey will not be easy and simple.

      I thought they explained in the episode that if Emma and Killian share a heart then no one has to die for him to be revived.

      But obviously the fact that they are explaining this before 5B even starts means that things aren't going to work out so easily. A bigger sacrifice will probably be needed besides Emma just sharing her heart with Hook so someone will most likely die.

      It's most likely going to be way more complicated than sharing a heart and leaving the UW.

      Thye won't be sharing a heart because.....Emma's heart can't be ripped out. Did she forget that?

      Plus, she could have stuck it in his body and the journey to the Underworld wouldn't be important. I don't think they should have let Emma lead since she is clearly not thinking straight.

      Then I am lost on that. What do you think might happen? You think she might realize that and might have to learn to move on (which might be unlikely)? I am so confused and obsessed of what might or will truly happen in the end of the season. Mostly because I am so excited.

      Well, we don;t know. You'd have to look into spoilers (which this thread is not).
      About spoilers, how long do you think we will get more spoilers and info for the next arc? Late Febuary or something?

      Probably. But you should check the spoilers board and not this part of the forum.

      I know.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I'll post more thoughts after I rewatch the episode. But here are some initial comments.

      Regarding Camelot lack of closure. I'll reserve judgement on that once the series is over. there may be more in store that we don't know about.  Ditto Merida.

      Rumple as the DO again. some are saying character assassination, but I think it's actually totally in character.   I think, when the series is done, we will see that even the 'good' Rumple was just Rumple manipulation.  The only thing that were not manipulations were the deaths (Malcom and Black Heart).

      Emma hearing the Dagger. There is more to that event than we initially know.  I suspect that she still possesses her portion of the Darkness, even though Rumple claimed to have it.  Dark Swan still exists, but is under control.

      More later...

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I'm just going to pretend that none of this happened, just act like Hook died during the AU and Emma, Emma went to the UW, and Gold found a way to save his heart.

      S5A made no sense at all, I think it stopped making sense whe S3 ended. Gold being the DO again and all the process he made gone makes me disappointed.

      The only reason I watched this season is because of the eye candy, Hook and Regina.

      The whole season was awful 😞😞😞

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Hmcooper4 wrote:

      Rumple as the DO again. some are saying character assassination, but I think it's actually totally in character.   I think, when the series is done, we will see that even the 'good' Rumple was just Rumple manipulation.  The only thing that were not manipulations were the deaths (Malcom and Black Heart).

      Emma hearing the Dagger. There is more to that event than we initially know.  I suspect that she still possesses her portion of the Darkness, even though Rumple claimed to have it.  Dark Swan still exists, but is under control.

      I totally agree about Rumplestiltskin choosing the Darkness, was completely within his character. He was never a good man, just someone trying to prove he was not a coward. In his mind, power makes him stong and brave.... oi, that pun. One does have to wonder if Hook inherited Merlin's foresight, when he was turned into a Dark One. He was warning everyone this season, that Gold would never change.

      Interesting theory, about Emma still having some Darkness within her. That is very possibly that case, because why else would she hear the dagger's call? Would that mean that Hook can still hear Excalibur? Assuming he is resurrected, and the sword still exists.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Well, I went around a variety of places and I got a general consensus feel.

      Major 5 points

      - Hook and Emma's relationship is so beautiful, but that last minute switch was predictable(CS fans) / Hook's plan makes no real sense as he was actually hurting Emma more tha Rumple

      - Rumple's character was ruined, or beyond caring about if they ever try redemption. Too many back and forth stuff. It made sense but his plan came out of nowhere with BS magic and made the blank slate heart pointless.

      - Belle has to finally leave him. Emma and co are jerks to imply that they would let Belle stay with an evel, evil man.

      - Camelot crew, where are you?

      - Yay, Underworld!

      Those are the general consensus vibes I picked up. The episode as a whole ranges between meh and hate. Hate! HATE! for the hardcore fans and decent for the casual fans.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I bloody loved the episode. Not the best but still fantastic. I am so enjoying this season. :)

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • In terms of the message Merlin left about Nimue being the key to destroying the Darkness, perhaps he foresaw that Rumple would once again claim the mantle of Dark One, and then Nimue could begrudgingly aid them in their Underworld travels, seeing as Rumple cares little for her plans to snuff out the light in the first place. Just a thought. Overall, I found this episode to be rather chaotic like the rest of this season. I'm really not sure what to make of it. I just thought a lot of the characters' motivations were rather forced and two-dimensional. Also, I was really hoping for more out of the Dark One Legion, but they were so easily dismissed.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I wish Regina didn't sent Zelena back to OZ I wanted her to go with Emma and to others to the Underworld so she can meet her mom. looks like Zelena and Cora mother/daughter reunion will never happened. :(

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:

      - Belle has to finally leave him. Emma and co are jerks to imply that they would let Belle stay with an evel, evil man.

      Does anyone really think, Emma and Co. would actually want Belle to stay with Gold, now that he has shown his true colors?

      Had Gold not agreed to reopen the portal to the Underworld, Emma would have teleported to Belle and told her the truth. Hook figured out what happened as he was stabbed, and tried to warn everyone about the betrayal. There is no way he would keep his mouth shut, if he is resurrected with his memories in tact. Mary Margaret cannot keep a secret to save her life, and David never has an opinion on anything. Regina loves reminding everyone that she was the Evil Queen, so she would love nothing more than to ruin Gold's happiness. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      - Belle has to finally leave him. Emma and co are jerks to imply that they would let Belle stay with an evel, evil man.

      Does anyone really think, Emma and Co. would actually want Belle to stay with Gold, now that he has shown his true colors?

      Had Gold not agreed to reopen the portal to the Underworld, Emma would have teleported to Belle and told her the truth. Hook figured out what happened as he was stabbed, and tried to warn everyone about the betrayal. There is no way he would keep his mouth shut, if he is resurrected with his memories in tact. Mary Margaret cannot keep a secret to save her life, and David never has an opinion on anything. Regina loves reminding everyone that she was the Evil Queen, so she would love nothing more than to ruin Gold's happiness. 

      Hook didn't figure out anything.

      Anyhow, what does Emma think Rumple will do? Just believe that she won't say anything? Who knows. Belle won't ever even tell Regina off about her heart, so I'm sure they don't care.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I have mixed thoughts about the mid season finale. As usual, there's stuff I liked, and stuff I didn't like. But I'd say there was more I didn't like about Swan Song than all the other episodes combined.

      First of all, I read on twitter that they had filmed a scene to show the Camelot folk (and Merida?) leaving Storybrooke. And it was cut from the episode. Wtf?? How they can just leave that arc like this and not have some conclusion? All this build up for the Camelot arc only for it to fall flat. It's no wonder I saw Amy Manson retweeting something someone wrote to her about how awesome she is as Merida, but that she shouldn't come back to OUAT because she's "better than that". I'm sure Amy Manson has a lot of positive things to say about OUAT during her time as Merida, but that doesn't mean they did her character justice in the storyline, so I can't blame her for retweeting that. Merida implied at the end of The Bear King that she wanted revenge on Arthur for slaying her father. Why did the writers make her declare something like that only to leave it unresolved? Maybe I'm being too harsh because I had the expectation that the Camelot gang & Merida were going to be in this episode, and they just weren't there. And also, what about Guinevere? I was waiting and waiting to see the sands of Avalon be undone from her and for her to finally assert herself to Arthur and his lies. Instead, in the last few episodes, she's just been a background character with like two lines as she supports her husband.

      I enjoyed seeing Brennan Jones, but the flashback was a little stiff and rushed. Naming another son after the son you had abandoned. Nice. On the inital first watch, I was disgusted that he even did that. Now that I've had time to process it, I understand he named the son Liam because he felt so guilty about abandoning his sons, and because he didn't know whether Liam #1 survived or where he was. I think the fact he named another son Liam was like a slap in the face to Killian and his unresolved anger towards his father for lying and abandoning him, and maybe even jealousy because here Brennan is trying to be a father to another son and all Killian has is years of resentment towards his father for what he did to him. 

      Okay, so the Underworld... I get that Emma wants to save Hook because she's upset his sacrifice was for nothing now that Gold is the Dark One once again. Yet the SwanFire in me is somewhat bitter, like, "Great, so he gets to come back, but not Neal". On the other hand, I understand Neal remained dead because he died for true and valiant reasons, with nothing to scar his legacy and sacrifice. But as a plot device for someone dead to come back... I don't know. I'm not too enthusiastic about it.

      Gold. OmgWtfIHateHim. That is all. He has quite possibly done the worst out of the worst possible thing to happen in the show, and I do not hope he is forgiven for it. My stomach twisted during the scene Belle is asleep in bed and Gold is dressing himself. Please don't tell me that's going to be the first hint that Belle is going to be pregnant. I cannot see Rumbelle coming back from Gold's lies this time. The ship is sinking and I think it's going down into the water for real this time.

      Emma's "Hook, I will always find you" was very forced as the closing episode line. I guess it's drawing a parallel to Snowing, but I hated this line because it was a reminder of Snowing (which I like as a pairing) because I don't think CaptainSwan needs to have that parallel and can stand on its own without giving off that similar feel to Snowing.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • My Thoughts;

      1) CAMELOT CLOSURE? We know they filmed a scene where they did justice to the Camelot characters.... Where the hell was it? Out of all the scenes they could have cut, and they chose the one with closure to the arc's hyped up characters. Like in Season 4A, the introduction of the Queens of Darkness ALSO had the farewell to Frozen. I liked how they interweaved it.

      2) PREDICTABLE PLOT Hooks death was about as foreseen as Rumple going to become the Dark One again. They managed to stretch a storyline with Mr. Gold non dark one for half a season, after that, it's time to make him what we all knew was coming; importance and relevance.

      3) ZELENA She's in Oz. COOL. :/

      4) RUMBELLE Biggest pile of shit ever. Quick forgiveness right there Belle.

      6) ENDING I feel like they had no idea how to end the episode, so they tried to force themselves some dramatic closure.


      5) ON TO THE UNDERWORLD I knew this was coming, as did everyone. I am looking forward to Season 5B though. The promo looked epic :D All these old characters returning looks amazing :)

      Rating: 6/1O (Average)

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Applegirl wrote:

      Okay, so the Underworld... I get that Emma wants to save Hook because she's upset his sacrifice was for nothing now that Gold is the Dark One once again. Yet the SwanFire in me is somewhat bitter, like, "Great, so he gets to come back, but not Neal". On the other hand, I understand Neal remained dead because he died for true and valiant reasons, with nothing to scar his legacy and sacrifice. But as a plot device for someone dead to come back... I don't know. I'm not too enthusiastic about it..

      Neal sacrificed himself so his father could live and help the heroes, instead his father gives shit about it and almost destroyed the woman his son loved. Neal died in vain and it is known.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Farerb wrote:
      Applegirl wrote:

      Okay, so the Underworld... I get that Emma wants to save Hook because she's upset his sacrifice was for nothing now that Gold is the Dark One once again. Yet the SwanFire in me is somewhat bitter, like, "Great, so he gets to come back, but not Neal". On the other hand, I understand Neal remained dead because he died for true and valiant reasons, with nothing to scar his legacy and sacrifice. But as a plot device for someone dead to come back... I don't know. I'm not too enthusiastic about it..

      Neal sacrificed himself so his father could live and help the heroes, instead his father gives shit about it and almost destroyed the woman his son loved. Neal died in vain and it is known.

      Rumple slipped and hit his head on the forgetting rock. Knowing Rumple, he'd sacrifice a random peasant for Neal if he could trade someone's life.

      But Rumple and Emma are respecting Neal's heroism (while Neal is an unpopular character) and Emma isn't respecting Hook's heroism and plea to let him go (because Hook is a popular character).

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Farerb wrote:

      Neal sacrificed himself so his father could live and help the heroes, instead his father gives shit about it and almost destroyed the woman his son loved. Neal died in vain and it is known.

      Neal has been rolling in his grave, since the moment he died. For goodness sake, he should have left his father dead.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:

      Rumple slipped and hit his head on the forgetting rock. Knowing Rumple, he'd sacrifice a random peasant for Neal if he could trade someone's life.

      But Rumple and Emma are respecting Neal's heroism (while Neal is an unpopular character) and Emma isn't respecting Hook's heroism and plea to let him go (because Hook is a popular character).

      Absolutely agree. The fan service..as always

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • The lack of closure to the Camelot characters was very frustrating. Why did Arthur not want them talking to Merlin? How is Nimue supposed to help beat the darkness? These are questions that I doubt the show will ever answer.

      Gold still being evil and Belle being oblivious is just exhausting at this point. It's such a shame, they used to be great characters. The way they got rid of Zelena was stupid too. It just felt so random/rushed, and the acting was kind of cheesy too.

      Worst episode of the season BY FAR, and maybe even the series all together. :/

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CadoDoan wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      Rumple slipped and hit his head on the forgetting rock. Knowing Rumple, he'd sacrifice a random peasant for Neal if he could trade someone's life.

      But Rumple and Emma are respecting Neal's heroism (while Neal is an unpopular character) and Emma isn't respecting Hook's heroism and plea to let him go (because Hook is a popular character).

      Absolutely agree. The fan service..as always

      Now, do everyone see why I dislike Hook and shipping. It's because of things like that.

      I would gladly join Rumple on the Dark Side, because the way the show works.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:
      Farerb wrote:
      Applegirl wrote:

      Okay, so the Underworld... I get that Emma wants to save Hook because she's upset his sacrifice was for nothing now that Gold is the Dark One once again. Yet the SwanFire in me is somewhat bitter, like, "Great, so he gets to come back, but not Neal". On the other hand, I understand Neal remained dead because he died for true and valiant reasons, with nothing to scar his legacy and sacrifice. But as a plot device for someone dead to come back... I don't know. I'm not too enthusiastic about it..

      Neal sacrificed himself so his father could live and help the heroes, instead his father gives shit about it and almost destroyed the woman his son loved. Neal died in vain and it is known.
      Rumple slipped and hit his head on the forgetting rock. Knowing Rumple, he'd sacrifice a random peasant for Neal if he could trade someone's life.

      But Rumple and Emma are respecting Neal's heroism (while Neal is an unpopular character) and Emma isn't respecting Hook's heroism and plea to let him go (because Hook is a popular character).

      The thong is that I wouldn't mind if he was popular because he is a great character, which he isn't. The only reason he's popular is just because he looks good. I hate to believe that the fandom is that shallow, but appearently they are, that is so frustrating.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Farerb wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Farerb wrote:
      Applegirl wrote:

      Okay, so the Underworld... I get that Emma wants to save Hook because she's upset his sacrifice was for nothing now that Gold is the Dark One once again. Yet the SwanFire in me is somewhat bitter, like, "Great, so he gets to come back, but not Neal". On the other hand, I understand Neal remained dead because he died for true and valiant reasons, with nothing to scar his legacy and sacrifice. But as a plot device for someone dead to come back... I don't know. I'm not too enthusiastic about it..

      Neal sacrificed himself so his father could live and help the heroes, instead his father gives shit about it and almost destroyed the woman his son loved. Neal died in vain and it is known.
      Rumple slipped and hit his head on the forgetting rock. Knowing Rumple, he'd sacrifice a random peasant for Neal if he could trade someone's life.

      But Rumple and Emma are respecting Neal's heroism (while Neal is an unpopular character) and Emma isn't respecting Hook's heroism and plea to let him go (because Hook is a popular character).

      The thong is that I wouldn't mind if he was popular because he is a great character, which he isn't. The only reason he's popular is just because he looks good. I hate to believe that the fandom is that shallow, but appearently they are, that is so frustrating.

      That is literally the only reason I disliked Hook. Fandom. I was hard on Hook (if you or anyone couldn't tell), because the fandom is that shallow and it affects the way they analyze the show and so on. Plus, it's really ironic that they tend to hate Regina, when Hook is just Regina version 2.0 with a little more self-awareness and no magic and equally bad subplots.

      It's also why I like Rumple because fans tend to not like him, but if he was played by Colin the fans would be fawning over him, like no tomorrow.

      The real sad part is I'm sure the writers know and they think that their fans are that shallow.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Right now they're sticking to Emma's genius split heart plan, but since the writers already gave that away it's likely not going to work that way and someone will end up dying after all. Just like how they plan to find the author to give Regina a happy ending but it never worked that way. The same thing for the queens of darkness when they practically found it themselves without the author.

      And honestly for all we know the never heard of before Hook half-brother or some other random guest star will be used for that.

      And the question is, will Liam 2 show up in the future or this half? How do you think he will feel for Hook. What Killian did to their father is unforgivable to the boy.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Well, Liam 2.0 doesn't know what happened because he was sleep. Liam 2.0 should be some kid, probably would have been a friend of Henry. I wouldn't forgive Hook, either.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:

      It's also why I like Rumple because fans tend to not like him, but if he was played by Colin the fans would be fawning over him, like no tomorrow.

      Seriously.... fans love Rumplestiltskin as a villain. He is the character everyone loves to hate. Plus, the Crocodile is bizarrely kinda sexy. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:
      Farerb wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Farerb wrote:
      Applegirl wrote:

      Okay, so the Underworld... I get that Emma wants to save Hook because she's upset his sacrifice was for nothing now that Gold is the Dark One once again. Yet the SwanFire in me is somewhat bitter, like, "Great, so he gets to come back, but not Neal". On the other hand, I understand Neal remained dead because he died for true and valiant reasons, with nothing to scar his legacy and sacrifice. But as a plot device for someone dead to come back... I don't know. I'm not too enthusiastic about it..

      Neal sacrificed himself so his father could live and help the heroes, instead his father gives shit about it and almost destroyed the woman his son loved. Neal died in vain and it is known.
      Rumple slipped and hit his head on the forgetting rock. Knowing Rumple, he'd sacrifice a random peasant for Neal if he could trade someone's life.
      But Rumple and Emma are respecting Neal's heroism (while Neal is an unpopular character) and Emma isn't respecting Hook's heroism and plea to let him go (because Hook is a popular character).
      The thong is that I wouldn't mind if he was popular because he is a great character, which he isn't. The only reason he's popular is just because he looks good. I hate to believe that the fandom is that shallow, but appearently they are, that is so frustrating.
      That is literally the only reason I disliked Hook. Fandom. I was hard on Hook (if you or anyone couldn't tell), because the fandom is that shallow and it affects the way they analyze the show and so on. Plus, it's really ironic that they tend to hate Regina, when Hook is just Regina version 2.0 with a little more self-awareness and no magic and equally bad subplots.

      It's also why I like Rumple because fans tend to not like him, but if he was played by Colin the fans would be fawning over him, like no tomorrow.

      The real sad part is I'm sure the writers know and they think that their fans are that shallow.

      That's because they only see the ship wars on twitter.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      It's also why I like Rumple because fans tend to not like him, but if he was played by Colin the fans would be fawning over him, like no tomorrow.

      Seriously.... fans love Rumplestiltskin as a villain. He is the character everyone loves to hate. Plus, the Crocodile is bizarrely kinda sexy. 

      Yeah....but he isn't given much favors. Rumple's character is becoming more cartoonish, while everyone else progresses or stagnates.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • NickyHelp wrote:
      Right now they're sticking to Emma's genius split heart plan, but since the writers already gave that away it's likely not going to work that way and someone will end up dying after all. 

      I would not be surprised, if it will be Zelena who will die. Sean Maguire hinted, that Robin wants to kill her himself.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Farerb wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Farerb wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Farerb wrote:
      Applegirl wrote:

      Okay, so the Underworld... I get that Emma wants to save Hook because she's upset his sacrifice was for nothing now that Gold is the Dark One once again. Yet the SwanFire in me is somewhat bitter, like, "Great, so he gets to come back, but not Neal". On the other hand, I understand Neal remained dead because he died for true and valiant reasons, with nothing to scar his legacy and sacrifice. But as a plot device for someone dead to come back... I don't know. I'm not too enthusiastic about it..

      Neal sacrificed himself so his father could live and help the heroes, instead his father gives shit about it and almost destroyed the woman his son loved. Neal died in vain and it is known.
      Rumple slipped and hit his head on the forgetting rock. Knowing Rumple, he'd sacrifice a random peasant for Neal if he could trade someone's life.
      But Rumple and Emma are respecting Neal's heroism (while Neal is an unpopular character) and Emma isn't respecting Hook's heroism and plea to let him go (because Hook is a popular character).
      The thong is that I wouldn't mind if he was popular because he is a great character, which he isn't. The only reason he's popular is just because he looks good. I hate to believe that the fandom is that shallow, but appearently they are, that is so frustrating.
      That is literally the only reason I disliked Hook. Fandom. I was hard on Hook (if you or anyone couldn't tell), because the fandom is that shallow and it affects the way they analyze the show and so on. Plus, it's really ironic that they tend to hate Regina, when Hook is just Regina version 2.0 with a little more self-awareness and no magic and equally bad subplots.

      It's also why I like Rumple because fans tend to not like him, but if he was played by Colin the fans would be fawning over him, like no tomorrow.

      The real sad part is I'm sure the writers know and they think that their fans are that shallow.

      That's because they only see the ship wars on twitter.

      But they know they are the minority which is why they pretty much ignore them and their hatred.

      But they do like fanservice. I feel like.....well, I'll just make a separate thread on that.

      They do weird things sometimes. It almost felt as one of A & E wrote a decent episode, while the other  dropped ink all over it. That is what it feels like. Adam and Eddy tend to write the best episodes, so perhaps one of them sought the Crimson Crown for some high--very high-minded advice.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:

      NickyHelp wrote:
      Right now they're sticking to Emma's genius split heart plan, but since the writers already gave that away it's likely not going to work that way and someone will end up dying after all. 

      I would not be surprised, if it will be Zelena who will die. Sean Maguire hinted, that Robin wants to kill her himself.

      So far Robin is not very ruthless, sure he does warn them before he acts just to defend his children. But he is a man of honor.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I disliked Neal myself but compared to Captainswan, he was better with Emma. I say again that Rumple's out-of nowhere revert was total crap but that's A+E for you. For some reason, they don't want us look at Rumple the way we're apparently meant to see Regina and Hook. In fact, it sometimes feels like they don't care if they contradict the other writers on the show or vice versa.    

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Avatar Beta wrote:
      I disliked Neal myself but compared to Captainswan, he was better with Emma. I say again that Rumple's out-of nowhere revert was total crap but that's A+E for you. For some reason, they don't want us look at Rumple the way we're apparently meant to see Regina and Hook. In fact, it sometimes feels like they don't care if they contradict the other writers on the show or vice versa.    

      They want a contrast. I'm perfectly fine letting TRumple be that contrast but they could have written it a bit differently.

      Rumple tries being a hero and he never gets what he wants, so why change.

      Regina is a "hero" because she gets what she wants while doing bad things. She had the whole "I'm a better person" thing, but she switched the moment that Zelena angered her (when Zelena had a valid point when she said she would have to raise Baby Hood since Robin and Regina were going to die).

      Hook is a hero because of his sole love for Emma. Couldn't care less about condemning Emma's family, but only turned around because Emma herself was being physically hurt.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:

      Rumple tries being a hero and he never gets what he wants, so why change.

      Gold did not want to change, and made that very clear. His "good side" was always a manipulation. Besides, the Dark Swan forced him to a "hero". One good deed does not make someone a hero. It was perfectly in-character for Rumplestiltskin to become the Dark One again. He told Emma that he would stop her, and this is how he did it.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      Rumple tries being a hero and he never gets what he wants, so why change.

      Gold did not want to change, and made that very clear. His "good side" was always a manipulation. Besides, the Dark Swan forced him to a "hero". One good deed does not make someone a hero. It was perfectly in-character for Rumplestiltskin to become the Dark One again. He told Emma that he would stop her, and this is how he did it.

      I just said that. But Rumple's whole stopping Emma plan was not this. That plot point was dropped because Rumple didn't think about becoming the DO until this epsiode (aka Broken Heart-Swan Song).

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:

      I just said that. But Rumple's whole stopping Emma plan was not this. That plot point was dropped because Rumple didn't think about becoming the DO until this epsiode (aka Broken Heart-Swan Song).

      Oh, really.... Emma's plan was to destroy the Darkness, and Gold stopped her by becoming the Dark One.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:

      I just said that. But Rumple's whole stopping Emma plan was not this. That plot point was dropped because Rumple didn't think about becoming the DO until this epsiode (aka Broken Heart-Swan Song).

      Oh, really.... Emma's plan was to destroy the Darkness, and Gold stopped her by becoming the Dark One.

      Well technically she has not. How else would Emma still here voices from the dagger? So clearly she is still a dark one. And right now what she is about to do is somehow against Hook's wishes and that she is like slipping slowly back to darkness and selfishness of the dark one. She is going to have to fix her mistake and remove/destroy the darkness again.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Saw something on reddit that made me laugh.

      A user asks when a someone becomes a DO they are reborn at the Vault, but Rumple didn't.

      Lol, they literally broke their own recent retcons. Within an episode of each other. That coninuity lasted all of 5a.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • NickyHelp wrote:

      Well technically she has not. How else would Emma still here voices from the dagger? So clearly she is still a dark one. And right now what she is about to do is somehow against Hook's wishes and that she is like slipping slowly back to darkness and selfishness of the dark one. She is going to have to fix her mistake and remove/destroy the darkness again.

      Whether Emma is still a Dark One or not, is not important right now. She is going to the Underworld, because Hook's sacrifice was meaningless. He died believing that the Darkness was destroyed, when it was just transferred back into Rumplestiltskin. This is Emma's "screw you" to Gold, more than anything else.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Ok, Gold becoming the Dark One again was always a predictable event.  We didn't know when or how, be I think we all knew that it would happen.

      We also know that Gold is a very resourceful person. They showed with the QOD arc that even with 0 magic, in a land without magic, he could find a way to manipulate events to his ends.

      Gold is also very much "In the Moment".  he is able to see things in the moment, and act upon them to twist them to his advantage.  His deal the led to Emma taking him to NYC was as much in the moment as it was planned (the deal was spur of the moment, the use of the deal was planned).  Swapping Daggers on Belle at the end of the 3b arc was an inspired move, he had absolutely no time to plan for it.

      Some people claim that the writers pull stuff from thin air (or other places), and while there may be a certain truth to that claim, it's also true that Rumple has been set up to be able to recognize and act upon situations that present themselves with little to no advance warning or prep.  He is THE master manipulator, and nothing he does NOTHING unless there is something in it for him.  In fact, in the scene where Gold returned Excalibur to Emma, Emma (rightfully) questioned Gold about the lack of a deal. When Gold DOESN'T make a deal is when you should be worried.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      NickyHelp wrote:

      Well technically she has not. How else would Emma still here voices from the dagger? So clearly she is still a dark one. And right now what she is about to do is somehow against Hook's wishes and that she is like slipping slowly back to darkness and selfishness of the dark one. She is going to have to fix her mistake and remove/destroy the darkness again.

      Whether Emma is still a Dark One or not, is not important right now. She is going to the Underworld, because Hook's sacrifice was meaningless. He died believing that the Darkness was destroyed, when it was just transferred back into Rumplestiltskin. This is Emma's "screw you" to Gold, more than anything else.

      Nope. Emma is making Hook's sacrifice even more meaningless because she needs to let go. Emma's desire to never let Hook go is what cause this trouble and will only lead to more trouble. Emma's whole mission is under that guise you said, but it's really because she still won't honor Hook's wishes.

      It;s no like she's going to ressurwect Hook to make him DO and kill him again.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:
      Avatar Beta wrote:
      I disliked Neal myself but compared to Captainswan, he was better with Emma. I say again that Rumple's out-of nowhere revert was total crap but that's A+E for you. For some reason, they don't want us look at Rumple the way we're apparently meant to see Regina and Hook. In fact, it sometimes feels like they don't care if they contradict the other writers on the show or vice versa.    
      They want a contrast. I'm perfectly fine letting TRumple be that contrast but they could have written it a bit differently.

      Rumple tries being a hero and he never gets what he wants, so why change.

      Regina is a "hero" because she gets what she wants while doing bad things. She had the whole "I'm a better person" thing, but she switched the moment that Zelena angered her (when Zelena had a valid point when she said she would have to raise Baby Hood since Robin and Regina were going to die).

      Hook is a hero because of his sole love for Emma. Couldn't care less about condemning Emma's family, but only turned around because Emma herself was being physically hurt.

      Yeah, they should do it differently then 'cause I can only ever see it one of two ways:

      1. Rumple is the only potential hero among the three and was more anti-hero than anything until Season 4.

      2. None of them are redeemable and just act like it for people they care about, thus all three should be punished accordingly but Regina and Hook never will be because of A+E's veiws and the fanbase.

      In any case, it's because of the writers.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:
      Saw something on reddit that made me laugh.

      A user asks when a someone becomes a DO they are reborn at the Vault, but Rumple didn't.

      Lol, they literally broke their own recent retcons. Within an episode of each other. That coninuity lasted all of 5a.

      Lol.  They had contradictions in the same episode: they bother to mention us that Dopey is still a tree, but then Rumple sends Belle to go out of the town. For what? So she'll become a tree inside his car?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Farerb wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Saw something on reddit that made me laugh.

      A user asks when a someone becomes a DO they are reborn at the Vault, but Rumple didn't.

      Lol, they literally broke their own recent retcons. Within an episode of each other. That coninuity lasted all of 5a.

      Lol.  They had contradictions in the same episode: they bother to mention us that Dopey is still a tree, but then Rumple sends Belle to go out of the town. For what? So she'll become a tree inside his car?

      Didn't he give her a potion to stop that? I'm pretty sure he did.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Farerb wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Saw something on reddit that made me laugh.

      A user asks when a someone becomes a DO they are reborn at the Vault, but Rumple didn't.

      Lol, they literally broke their own recent retcons. Within an episode of each other. That coninuity lasted all of 5a.

      Lol.  They had contradictions in the same episode: they bother to mention us that Dopey is still a tree, but then Rumple sends Belle to go out of the town. For what? So she'll become a tree inside his car?
      Didn't he give her a potion to stop that? I'm pretty sure he did.

      Yeah, he did.

      Actually they write the heroes as jerks. Time to make a thread for that!

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Farerb wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Saw something on reddit that made me laugh.

      A user asks when a someone becomes a DO they are reborn at the Vault, but Rumple didn't.

      Lol, they literally broke their own recent retcons. Within an episode of each other. That coninuity lasted all of 5a.

      Lol.  They had contradictions in the same episode: they bother to mention us that Dopey is still a tree, but then Rumple sends Belle to go out of the town. For what? So she'll become a tree inside his car?
      Didn't he give her a potion to stop that? I'm pretty sure he did.

      Lol, of course he did.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Farerb wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Farerb wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Saw something on reddit that made me laugh.

      A user asks when a someone becomes a DO they are reborn at the Vault, but Rumple didn't.

      Lol, they literally broke their own recent retcons. Within an episode of each other. That coninuity lasted all of 5a.

      Lol.  They had contradictions in the same episode: they bother to mention us that Dopey is still a tree, but then Rumple sends Belle to go out of the town. For what? So she'll become a tree inside his car?
      Didn't he give her a potion to stop that? I'm pretty sure he did.
      Lol, of course he did.

      Well, he did have that "anti-transformation" powder. So, put that in a vial of water and presto! I mean MErida at most of the bag, so I'm sure it's edible.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Before Rumple sent Belle, he gave her a potion that would protect her from the curse of the town line.  So there was no contradiction there.

      As for Rumple not going to the vault, I can think of a few reasons why that might not have occurred:

      1. Rumple was previously a dark one, and didn't need to go through that ordeal again. (weak reason, I'm sure, but possible).

      2. more likely, in the past the darkness had taken up residence in the vault, except for the bit that was given to the current dark one.  However, when Gold became the DO again, ALL of the previous Dark Ones were present, including the 2 present dark ones.  That situation may have overridden the rule for reappearing in the vault.

      3. All of the rules changed after Excalibur was reforged. (though how Gold managed to get the Dagger portion back is still a question in my mind at the moment).

      And before anyone makes the comment, yes, I believe that the writers probably overlooked that piece of information regarding the appearance in the vault. But that does not mean that there aren't reasonable explanations to get them out of that slip.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Hmcooper4 wrote:
      Before Rumple sent Belle, he gave her a potion that would protect her from the curse of the town line.  So there was no contradiction there.

      As for Rumple not going to the vault, I can think of a few reasons why that might not have occurred:

      1. Rumple was previously a dark one, and didn't need to go through that ordeal again. (weak reason, I'm sure, but possible).

      2. more likely, in the past the darkness had taken up residence in the vault, except for the bit that was given to the current dark one.  However, when Gold became the DO again, ALL of the previous Dark Ones were present, including the 2 present dark ones.  That situation may have overridden the rule for reappearing in the vault.

      3. All of the rules changed after Excalibur was reforged. (though how Gold managed to get the Dagger portion back is still a question in my mind at the moment).

      And before anyone makes the comment, yes, I believe that the writers probably overlooked that piece of information regarding the appearance in the vault. But that does not mean that there aren't reasonable explanations to get them out of that slip.

      Also don't forget what Gold said... He turned the sword into a concuit so the Darkness was not removed but rather it was moved. Like an exchange without letting the Darkness out and then taking it on you like with Emma. So the Vault was not needed.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:
      Farerb wrote:
      Applegirl wrote:

      Okay, so the Underworld... I get that Emma wants to save Hook because she's upset his sacrifice was for nothing now that Gold is the Dark One once again. Yet the SwanFire in me is somewhat bitter, like, "Great, so he gets to come back, but not Neal". On the other hand, I understand Neal remained dead because he died for true and valiant reasons, with nothing to scar his legacy and sacrifice. But as a plot device for someone dead to come back... I don't know. I'm not too enthusiastic about it..

      Neal sacrificed himself so his father could live and help the heroes, instead his father gives shit about it and almost destroyed the woman his son loved. Neal died in vain and it is known.
      Rumple slipped and hit his head on the forgetting rock. Knowing Rumple, he'd sacrifice a random peasant for Neal if he could trade someone's life.

      But Rumple and Emma are respecting Neal's heroism (while Neal is an unpopular character) and Emma isn't respecting Hook's heroism and plea to let him go (because Hook is a popular character).

      Neal is not an unpopular character. Everyone on Twitter, Tumblr and Facebook is up in arms that no source has announced Michael Raymond James' return. Hell, look at this very forum in 5B spoiler threads. Everyone's also fuming that Dylan Schmidt is the one who's been seen on set instead of MRJ. Because Rumple never gave a shit about Neal, but he did with Baelfire, Bae's actor is the one who's returning and not Neal's. Kind of like how Malcolm was the one who died, but we're seeing Peter 'cause it makes for better television.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Farerb wrote:
      Applegirl wrote:

      Okay, so the Underworld... I get that Emma wants to save Hook because she's upset his sacrifice was for nothing now that Gold is the Dark One once again. Yet the SwanFire in me is somewhat bitter, like, "Great, so he gets to come back, but not Neal". On the other hand, I understand Neal remained dead because he died for true and valiant reasons, with nothing to scar his legacy and sacrifice. But as a plot device for someone dead to come back... I don't know. I'm not too enthusiastic about it..

      Neal sacrificed himself so his father could live and help the heroes, instead his father gives shit about it and almost destroyed the woman his son loved. Neal died in vain and it is known.
      Rumple slipped and hit his head on the forgetting rock. Knowing Rumple, he'd sacrifice a random peasant for Neal if he could trade someone's life.

      But Rumple and Emma are respecting Neal's heroism (while Neal is an unpopular character) and Emma isn't respecting Hook's heroism and plea to let him go (because Hook is a popular character).

      Neal is not an unpopular character. Everyone on Twitter, Tumblr and Facebook is up in arms that no source has announced Michael Raymond James' return. Hell, look at this very forum in 5B spoiler threads. Everyone's also fuming that Dylan Schmidt is the one who's been seen on set instead of MRJ. Because Rumple never gave a shit about Neal, but he did with Baelfire, Bae's actor is the one who's returning and not Neal's. Kind of like how Malcolm was the one who died, but we're seeing Peter 'cause it makes for better television.

      Neal is unpopular, Bae isn't. Malcolm isn't popular, but Peter Pan is. Guess what XD

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Farerb wrote:
      Applegirl wrote:

      Okay, so the Underworld... I get that Emma wants to save Hook because she's upset his sacrifice was for nothing now that Gold is the Dark One once again. Yet the SwanFire in me is somewhat bitter, like, "Great, so he gets to come back, but not Neal". On the other hand, I understand Neal remained dead because he died for true and valiant reasons, with nothing to scar his legacy and sacrifice. But as a plot device for someone dead to come back... I don't know. I'm not too enthusiastic about it..

      Neal sacrificed himself so his father could live and help the heroes, instead his father gives shit about it and almost destroyed the woman his son loved. Neal died in vain and it is known.
      Rumple slipped and hit his head on the forgetting rock. Knowing Rumple, he'd sacrifice a random peasant for Neal if he could trade someone's life.
      But Rumple and Emma are respecting Neal's heroism (while Neal is an unpopular character) and Emma isn't respecting Hook's heroism and plea to let him go (because Hook is a popular character).
      Neal is not an unpopular character. Everyone on Twitter, Tumblr and Facebook is up in arms that no source has announced Michael Raymond James' return. Hell, look at this very forum in 5B spoiler threads. Everyone's also fuming that Dylan Schmidt is the one who's been seen on set instead of MRJ. Because Rumple never gave a shit about Neal, but he did with Baelfire, Bae's actor is the one who's returning and not Neal's. Kind of like how Malcolm was the one who died, but we're seeing Peter 'cause it makes for better television.
      Neal is unpopular, Bae isn't. Malcolm isn't popular, but Peter Pan is. Guess what XD

      You saying Neal is unpopular doesn't make it so. Just read through the 5B threads, that alone should be enough to prove it, since everyone wants Neal. Even people who hated him and SwanFire want him back.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I'm so glad so many people share in my disdain for this episode. How did they not know that this kind of thing wouldn't fly with the fans? Not only did they delete the scene that concluded the Camelot arc but also had to mention it wasn't canon? And what was with the twister to Oz suddenly being Speedy Gonzales when it came to take Zelena away this time? Admittedly, I did get choked up when Hook died, because I thought his death was actually going to mean the destruction of the darkness but that all went to hell (literally. Oops, too soon?) I don't know if I can watch Rumple be the Dark One again, and I'm really angry at the writers for ONLY HAVING BELLE BE IN LOVE WITH HIM WHEN HE'S DARK. THIS IS AN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP AND IT SHOULD NOT BE FEATURED ON THE SHOW ANYMORE. I don't understand what Adam and Eddy are thinking, but this is ridiculous.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Farerb wrote:
      Applegirl wrote:

      Okay, so the Underworld... I get that Emma wants to save Hook because she's upset his sacrifice was for nothing now that Gold is the Dark One once again. Yet the SwanFire in me is somewhat bitter, like, "Great, so he gets to come back, but not Neal". On the other hand, I understand Neal remained dead because he died for true and valiant reasons, with nothing to scar his legacy and sacrifice. But as a plot device for someone dead to come back... I don't know. I'm not too enthusiastic about it..

      Neal sacrificed himself so his father could live and help the heroes, instead his father gives shit about it and almost destroyed the woman his son loved. Neal died in vain and it is known.
      Rumple slipped and hit his head on the forgetting rock. Knowing Rumple, he'd sacrifice a random peasant for Neal if he could trade someone's life.
      But Rumple and Emma are respecting Neal's heroism (while Neal is an unpopular character) and Emma isn't respecting Hook's heroism and plea to let him go (because Hook is a popular character).
      Neal is not an unpopular character. Everyone on Twitter, Tumblr and Facebook is up in arms that no source has announced Michael Raymond James' return. Hell, look at this very forum in 5B spoiler threads. Everyone's also fuming that Dylan Schmidt is the one who's been seen on set instead of MRJ. Because Rumple never gave a shit about Neal, but he did with Baelfire, Bae's actor is the one who's returning and not Neal's. Kind of like how Malcolm was the one who died, but we're seeing Peter 'cause it makes for better television.
      Neal is unpopular, Bae isn't. Malcolm isn't popular, but Peter Pan is. Guess what XD
      You saying Neal is unpopular doesn't make it so. Just read through the 5B threads, that alone should be enough to prove it, since everyone wants Neal. Even people who hated him and SwanFire want him back.

      Let me correct myself. Neal isn't as popular and loved as others. Now, my statement is correct. I run into many CS, anti-Regina, Neal fans.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Gravedesires wrote:
      I'm so glad so many people share in my disdain for this episode. How did they not know that this kind of thing wouldn't fly with the fans? Not only did they delete the scene that concluded the Camelot arc but also had to mention it wasn't canon? And what was with the twister to Oz suddenly being Speedy Gonzales when it came to take Zelena away this time? Admittedly, I did get choked up when Hook died, because I thought his death was actually going to mean the destruction of the darkness but that all went to hell (literally. Oops, too soon?) I don't know if I can watch Rumple be the Dark One again, and I'm really angry at the writers for ONLY HAVING BELLE BE IN LOVE WITH HIM WHEN HE'S DARK. THIS IS AN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP AND IT SHOULD NOT BE FEATURED ON THE SHOW ANYMORE. I don't understand what Adam and Eddy are thinking, but this is ridiculous.

      Tons of shrooms. Too many potions and poisions and I think they need help.

      But excited for next arc.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • This episode has taken away any hope I had for the show to return to normal... I'll only be able to watch it now to laugh at it. 75% of the main characters are jerks. I miss Zelena, she was the only one who retained her personality. I can't believe they had Rumbelle get back together. If they have a child, I think I'll be sick. I can't believe Emma blackmailed Gold just to get Killykins back, and in doing so, allows Belle to stay with her nut job, monster of a husband. No one cares about Belle at all even though she constantly tries to help them. I can't believe they didn't give the Camelot characters any closing. I don't understand what the point of this entire arc was. Can they just start over from season 4a? Please? Why has everyone dropped their lives to go save Hook? They left their children with fairys?! Nothing in this episode made any sense. I can't believe or understand any of this... What a major disappointment...

      I suppose by itself as a stand-alone episode it wasn't terrible but as part of the series... Ugh...

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Gravedesires wrote:
      I'm so glad so many people share in my disdain for this episode. How did they not know that this kind of thing wouldn't fly with the fans? Not only did they delete the scene that concluded the Camelot arc but also had to mention it wasn't canon? And what was with the twister to Oz suddenly being Speedy Gonzales when it came to take Zelena away this time? Admittedly, I did get choked up when Hook died, because I thought his death was actually going to mean the destruction of the darkness but that all went to hell (literally. Oops, too soon?) I don't know if I can watch Rumple be the Dark One again, and I'm really angry at the writers for ONLY HAVING BELLE BE IN LOVE WITH HIM WHEN HE'S DARK. THIS IS AN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP AND IT SHOULD NOT BE FEATURED ON THE SHOW ANYMORE. I don't understand what Adam and Eddy are thinking, but this is ridiculous.

      Let's be real, Lacey was one who had the healthy relationship with Rumple, not Belle. And since the Curse only magnified your worst traits and didn't create the Cursed Selves out of nothing, Lacey's still in there. Was always in there, actually. So it makes sense that Belle only wants to be with Rumple (or that the writers only put them together) when he's dark. Lacey likes that danger. And retro rock acts, apparently.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Yay!  I just saw that Peter Pan will be back in March!  I hope he breaks out of the Underworld and becomes a regular cast member.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I hope Ruby will become a regular cast member again.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • i really, really REALLY thought that once the Darkness was put into a human vessel, and that vessel was killed, it would be that there would NO LONGER be a DO. i thought that the darkness would die with that human vessel. 

      i really enjoyed the true surprise i felt when it was revealed that RUmple was the DO...but c'mon.  just like most of you are saying, WTH.  Rumple's character, one of the best on the show, should have died when he, uh died, and the character should have just been greatly missed by us viewers.  like letting him die w/ dignity.

      and if i have to see one more Belle/Rumple make up / break up scene, i'm going to be really...i don't know what.  something.  i'm so sick of the.  i was so happy Belle was driving away to see the world.  when she ever came back, i really felt like my head was going to explode.  enough is enough w/ the two of them. 

      i'd love to see more about what is going to happen w/ Robin, Regina and Zelena and the baby.  while it unfolded like a day time soap last season, i'm now quite interested in to see what is ahead.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Ok, first of all, I am going to put one spoiler out there regarding the camelot arc, or at least the characters. The creators have confirmed that at least Merida will show up again in the back half, so the fact that there was no conclusion to the Camelot arc should not be a reason to despise the episode. They did not complete the arc, because they aren't done with it. So to everyone complaining that they did not wrap up the arc, be patient, and assume that maybe, just maybe, they might have more to do with that.

      In fact, I find it interesting that people complain about not seeing something when the show is still running. Wait until the series is completed, and THEN complain if there is something that was not properly tied up.  A loose end is just a possibility for a story later on. It is only a LOST opportunity once the series is completed.

      Ok, soapbox aside.

      Now an interesting observation.  Gold is the Dark One again with the Dagger, however Emma killed Killian with Excalibur. So shouldn't she technically be a Dark One as well, with MERLIN's Darkness (and maybe Killians).  I think Gold lied when he said he had Emma's and Killian's Darkness. So there are, in my opinion, still 2 dark ones. with Emma being more the new Sorcerer (unless Merlin shows up again).

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Once Emma reforged Excalibur, she and Hook were no longer tethered to it.

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    • True, but...

      Gold did something with Excalibur that allowed him to get the dagger back, which means that, at some point, Excalibur became unforged.

      And Excalibur (at least the lower blade and hilt) was disintegrated when Emma plunged it into Killian, so (assuming that Emma has the Darkness originally tethered with Excalibur lower blade) Emma would no longer be tethered to anything. and that may be something that either Gold does not anticipate, or something that he DOES anticipate that concerns him greatly.

      Granted, this is a great deal of speculation, and is probably totally off the mark.

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    • Hmcooper4 wrote:
      Ok, first of all, I am going to put one spoiler out there regarding the camelot arc, or at least the characters. The creators have confirmed that at least Merida will show up again in the back half, so the fact that there was no conclusion to the Camelot arc should not be a reason to despise the episode. They did not complete the arc, because they aren't done with it. So to everyone complaining that they did not wrap up the arc, be patient, and assume that maybe, just maybe, they might have more to do with that.

      In fact, I find it interesting that people complain about not seeing something when the show is still running. Wait until the series is completed, and THEN complain if there is something that was not properly tied up.  A loose end is just a possibility for a story later on. It is only a LOST opportunity once the series is completed.

      Ok, soapbox aside.

      Now an interesting observation.  Gold is the Dark One again with the Dagger, however Emma killed Killian with Excalibur. So shouldn't she technically be a Dark One as well, with MERLIN's Darkness (and maybe Killians).  I think Gold lied when he said he had Emma's and Killian's Darkness. So there are, in my opinion, still 2 dark ones. with Emma being more the new Sorcerer (unless Merlin shows up again).

      Even if Emma doesn't have Hook's Darkness (which maybe was transferred to Gold) I believe sh has her Dark Swan Darkness. Emma was surrounded in a blue light when she returned to normal. There is no indication that Emma has completely return to normal and I think the heart splitting will have this twist. Maybe in 5B her heart will be black because of her being the Dark One still.

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    • Stray side thought. Gold having Killian's Darkness. I'd love to see Gold's angst when his long time nemesis appears as a voice in his head.  that should drive Gold crazy.

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    • ΚΟΜΙΞ wrote:

      Even if Emma doesn't have Hook's Darkness (which maybe was transferred to Gold) I believe sh has her Dark Swan Darkness. Emma was surrounded in a blue light when she returned to normal.

      As the Dark One, Emma's magic was gold.... Merlin's was blue. If anything, Emma has Hook's share of the Darkness which came from Merlin. 

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    • ΚΟΜΙΞ wrote:

      Hmcooper4 wrote:
      Ok, first of all, I am going to put one spoiler out there regarding the camelot arc, or at least the characters. The creators have confirmed that at least Merida will show up again in the back half, so the fact that there was no conclusion to the Camelot arc should not be a reason to despise the episode. They did not complete the arc, because they aren't done with it. So to everyone complaining that they did not wrap up the arc, be patient, and assume that maybe, just maybe, they might have more to do with that.

      In fact, I find it interesting that people complain about not seeing something when the show is still running. Wait until the series is completed, and THEN complain if there is something that was not properly tied up.  A loose end is just a possibility for a story later on. It is only a LOST opportunity once the series is completed.

      Ok, soapbox aside.

      Now an interesting observation.  Gold is the Dark One again with the Dagger, however Emma killed Killian with Excalibur. So shouldn't she technically be a Dark One as well, with MERLIN's Darkness (and maybe Killians).  I think Gold lied when he said he had Emma's and Killian's Darkness. So there are, in my opinion, still 2 dark ones. with Emma being more the new Sorcerer (unless Merlin shows up again).

      Even if Emma doesn't have Hook's Darkness (which maybe was transferred to Gold) I believe sh has her Dark Swan Darkness. Emma was surrounded in a blue light when she returned to normal. There is no indication that Emma has completely return to normal and I think the heart splitting will have this twist. Maybe in 5B her heart will be black because of her being the Dark One still.

      Well put.

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      ΚΟΜΙΞ wrote:

      Even if Emma doesn't have Hook's Darkness (which maybe was transferred to Gold) I believe sh has her Dark Swan Darkness. Emma was surrounded in a blue light when she returned to normal.

      As the Dark One, Emma's magic was gold.... Merlin's was blue. If anything, Emma has Hook's share of the Darkness which came from Merlin. 

      Ah, that should do too... Can not wait for more info about 5B and all.

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    • Hmcooper4 wrote:
      Ok, first of all, I am going to put one spoiler out there regarding the camelot arc, or at least the characters. The creators have confirmed that at least Merida will show up again in the back half, so the fact that there was no conclusion to the Camelot arc should not be a reason to despise the episode. They did not complete the arc, because they aren't done with it. So to everyone complaining that they did not wrap up the arc, be patient, and assume that maybe, just maybe, they might have more to do with that.

      In fact, I find it interesting that people complain about not seeing something when the show is still running. Wait until the series is completed, and THEN complain if there is something that was not properly tied up.  A loose end is just a possibility for a story later on. It is only a LOST opportunity once the series is completed.

      This is where knowing things that were filmed hurt us. They had filmed a send off to the characters, but obviously changed their minds and scrapped it. But we (and the actors I think), thought it was simply cut for time. So that's where that all came from.

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    • Hmcooper4 wrote:

      And Excalibur (at least the lower blade and hilt) was disintegrated when Emma plunged it into Killian, so (assuming that Emma has the Darkness originally tethered with Excalibur lower blade) Emma would no longer be tethered to anything. and that may be something that either Gold does not anticipate, or something that he DOES anticipate that concerns him greatly.

      If Excalibur still exists (which I think it does), it probably returned to the stone. However, I do not think anyone is tethered to it. The sword is probably just waiting, for the hero it deems worthy to wield it. Which would explain why Arthur's arc was not concluded, since he still thinks its his destiny to smite the Darkness. 

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    • That would place Excalibur in Emma's basement, since it appears that she is keeping her and Killian's place. (assuming, of course, that the stone is also still in Emma's basement).

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    • Hmcooper4 wrote:
      That would place Excalibur in Emma's basement, since it appears that she is keeping her and Killian's place. (assuming, of course, that the stone is also still in Emma's basement).

      Yup.... the last we saw the stone, it was in the CaptainSwan basement. Unless someone used magic to move it, that two-ton stone is still down there. 

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    • Maybe Rumple simply reforged the whole of Excalibur into the DO dagger. If Merlin could expand the Holy Grail into a sword, surely Rumple can compress it into a smaller version.

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    • Toma Cre wrote:
      Maybe Rumple simply reforged the whole of Excalibur into the DO dagger. If Merlin could expand the Holy Grail into a sword, surely Rumple can compress it into a smaller version.

      Merlin used the Promethean Flame to forge Excalibur, out of the Holy Grail. Unfortunately, Emma already used the final spark. Hey.... I wonder, if OUaT will introduce Hephaestus? 

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Toma Cre wrote:
      Maybe Rumple simply reforged the whole of Excalibur into the DO dagger. If Merlin could expand the Holy Grail into a sword, surely Rumple can compress it into a smaller version.
      Merlin used the Promethean Flame to forge Excalibur, out of the Holy Grail. Unfortunately, Emma already used the final spark. Hey.... I wonder, if OUaT will introduce Hephaestus? 

      But the spark still exists........

      Plus, Hephastus is like not Prometheus.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      Plus, Hephastus is like not Prometheus.

      I am well aware of who they both are. Hephaestus was the Greek god of the forge and fire. While, Prometheus was the Titan who created mankind.

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      Plus, Hephastus is like not Prometheus.

      I am well aware of who they both are. Hephaestus was the Greek god of the forge and fire. While, Prometheus was the Titan who created mankind.

      So, Prometheaus has precedence on Once.

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    • Haters gonna hate, but I loved the episode. I missed Evil Queen flashbacks (although the sleeping curse thing was kind of wut). I missed Gold as the Dark One and I am very please he got his power back.

      If he was truly a hero now that the darkness was gone, it would mean that rumple was never really corrupted, but was instead possessed by the darkness like a demon's victim. Now they showed it is really who he is. They reinforced the fact that losing Bae all those years ago was truly his fault and not the Darkness', and I also think that after this episode Rumbelle will not be endgame.

      I also loved that Emma quoted Snow White and Charming, meaning that she's back on track after over a month of being the Dark One.

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    • Killian Jones wrote:

      If he was truly a hero now that the darkness was gone, it would mean that rumple was never really corrupted, but was instead possessed by the darkness like a demon's victim. Now they showed it is really who he is. They reinforced the fact that losing Bae all those years ago was truly his fault and not the Darkness', and I also think that after this episode Rumbelle will not be endgame.

      Agreed.... Emma turning Gold into a hero, was nothing more than a loophole, to pull Excalibur from the stone. All she did, was take a page out of his book.

      One of the best things about the Darkness mythology, is that the Dark One is not possessed. They are people who indulge in every selfish desire, and then try to justify themselves. So, it was wonderful to see Gold finally show his true colors. He will forever be the Crocodile, because choosing power and darkness is his true self. Besides, Rumplestiltskin is so much more interesting as a villain. Though it is pretty funny, that Hook foreshadowed this would happen, the entire arc, and no one listened to him. 

      I really hope that Belle's happy ending, is her finally leaving Storybrooke to see the world. She deserves better, than to be manipulated to no end, by her husband. That said.... it is worth noting, that unlike Merlin and Hook, Belle fell in love with the Dark One. She never knew Rumplestiltskin as a mortal, and when she finally saw that part of him, she did not like it. 

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    • She never knew Rumplestiltskin as a mortal, and when she finally saw that part of him, she did not like it.


      There is nothing wrong with that. The problem with Belle is that she refuses to admit this, because she wants to regard herself as a better person. If she would admit that she loves Rumpel as "the Dark One" and if he would stop lying to her, perhaps they can find some kind of peace.

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    • I have lots of issues with this season and this episode, mostly it's all inconsistency.  Plots were dropped, charachter development scrapped, and past details changed.  Bugs me.  But, what really bugged me in this episode was Regina.  I think she's actually bad again.  Emma sacrificed herself so that Regina wouldn't become a dark one.  Yet, Emma tells Regina she's going to sacrifice herself AGAIN for Regina and everyone else, and Regina's like, okay good idea.  I think she's still season 1 Regina, trying to be Henry's only mom.  And now that Rumple is the dark one again, we might be poised to see season one all over again.  But this time in Hell.  

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    • Charmcityreader wrote:
      But, what really bugged me in this episode was Regina.  I think she's actually bad again.  Emma sacrificed herself so that Regina wouldn't become a dark one.  Yet, Emma tells Regina she's going to sacrifice herself AGAIN for Regina and everyone else, and Regina's like, okay good idea.  I think she's still season 1 Regina, trying to be Henry's only mom.  

      Did you even watch this episode?

      Regina was not happy about Emma wanting to sacrifice herself, but understood that it might have been the only way to save everyone. She pleaded with Hook to look within, and ask himself the big question, for Emma's sake. When Hook actually sacrificed himself, Regina looked away because it was too gruesome. This is a far cry from the Evil Queen, and the S1 mayor.

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    • Toma Cre wrote:
      Maybe Rumple simply reforged the whole of Excalibur into the DO dagger. If Merlin could expand the Holy Grail into a sword, surely Rumple can compress it into a smaller version.

      I actually think this could be true, I remember thinking while I was looking at the Dagger that it looked different. It had much more black designs on it. And IDK if it's because of the Darkness of all Dark Ones now in it or if it's just because Excalibur's designs went into the Kris Dagger.

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Charmcityreader wrote:
      But, what really bugged me in this episode was Regina.  I think she's actually bad again.  Emma sacrificed herself so that Regina wouldn't become a dark one.  Yet, Emma tells Regina she's going to sacrifice herself AGAIN for Regina and everyone else, and Regina's like, okay good idea.  I think she's still season 1 Regina, trying to be Henry's only mom.  
      Did you even watch this episode?

      Regina was not happy about Emma wanting to sacrifice herself, but understood that it might have been the only way to save everyone. She pleaded with Hook to look within, and ask himself the big question, for Emma's sake. When Hook actually sacrificed himself, Regina looked away because it was too gruesome. This is a far cry from the Evil Queen, and the S1 mayor.

      Yes, I watched, thanks. The whole episode was ridiculous, and I didn't go into precise details, as it's geting prety redundant here.  I guess it's a matter of opinion, as I don't think that Hook dying was for Emma's sake. Regina had just sent her sister, a mother of a baby that's like 3 hours old, to Oz to get her out of the way.  And with a magic wand she couldn't use before because she was "too good."  I don't buy that she was just not confident enough.  IMO, she's up to no good.  

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    • Well, I prepared myself for an anticlimax, so it wasn't too big a let down for me...but I think that is mostly due to my lowered expectations. 

      I'd guessed the Hook and Rumple stuff, but it was fairly well acted at least. The latter is just frustrating- they have this character stuck in one tedious time loop. The former was fine, but I just wish they hadn't told us the underworld plan right away. It's like they're going "It's okay, see we're going to fix it, so don't be mad at us alright?" They did the same in the season 4 finale, basically telling us that everything would be undone right before Killian is stabbed. Like seriously guys, you can allow for some drama and tension every once in a while. 


      The Regina and Zelena bit pissed me off. I thought she couldn't use the wand because she'd done too much good? Since when did Regina lack confidence in the magic department? If anything I think she tends to be too confident considering the number of times she's gotten her ass kicked by other sorcerers. All in all, I haven't enjoyed Regina this season... and I guess all that "new savior Regina will save the town" stuff meant next to nothing.

      Zelena had better come back. I'm fine with her being written out eventually, but not like that. If that was her end, then that's a massive anticlimax... but I highly doubt it will be. In fact I'm not sure how Regina thinks this is any kind of solution when Zelena has already done so much realm hopping in her time.

      My main dissapointed though, is that things didn't happen the way I thought they might when the twister was conjured. I thought Zelena would grab Regina at the last moment and they'd both be pulled to Oz. Leading to more time exploring Oz in 5B and Regina being officially named The Wicked Witch of the East by the Ozians. Getting a house dropped on her head might do her some good considering the way she's been recently.


      What else? Um. Oh yeah... I've reached my give a s*** quota with Emma. They should have killed her rather than Hook. 

      Oh and the lack of conclusion to Camelot and Merida doesn't surprise me at all. They could have dealt with that in the time they wasted with the Hook and Regina flashbacks which I found totally pointless in an episode that was already in a mad rush to wrap up the present day story. But then I guess they NEED to have The Evil Queen make an appearance. 

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    • The new Dagger may hold many surprizes... Agreed about Regina. Hope Zelena gets back to her this time for banishing her. Don't get me wrong but "good" Regina crossed a line this time. She made a mistake and maybe one that she will regret.

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    • I have some questions about this episode:

      -The Dark Ones never returned to the Underworld, so why Charon didn't come to take those who were marked (He returned because they summoned him)

      -Why didn't Regina ask Hook to use his father's heart to cast the Dark Curse instead of using her father's. We saw the heart was the final ingredient, so at this point Henry Sr was still alive. 

      -If Hook absorbed all the Dark Ones inside Excalibur, how come he didn't absorbe Emma? She was still Dark Swan at this point

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    • 8Rob wrote:
      I have some questions about this episode:

      -The Dark Ones never returned to the Underworld, so why Charon didn't come to take those who were marked (He returned because they summoned him)

      -Why didn't Regina ask Hook to use his father's heart to cast the Dark Curse instead of using her father's. We saw the heart was the final ingredient, so at this point Henry Sr was still alive. 

      -If Hook absorbed all the Dark Ones inside Excalibur, how come he didn't absorbe Emma? She was still Dark Swan at this point

      The first and third questions are one and the same in terms of an answer, honestly. The Dark Ones never left Storybrooke, yes. But they also never gained corporeal bodies. They were absorbed back into the Dagger, which is like a total reset. Emma did have a material body, so she wasn't absorbed.

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    • Zelena doesn't seem to have too much trouble crossing worlds with magic, considering she travelled to EF in Season 4 and she somehow transported Glinda from Oz to EF with just a wave of her hand. Perhaps portal-jumping to Storybrooke may be a bit more difficult considering it is smack in the middle of TLWM, but it is probably just a matter of time before she finds a way.

      I am not sure why you think banishing Zelena to Oz is such a bad thing considering the circumstances. With the DO crisis, they didn't have a lot of time left to explore other options. And Zelena was previously gloating over Robin and Regina's impending deaths (even after they tried to make peace with her) and said she would bring up her daughter to be "wicked". Do you really think she would make a good mother?

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    • 8Rob wrote:
      I have some questions about this episode:

      -The Dark Ones never returned to the Underworld, so why Charon didn't come to take those who were marked (He returned because they summoned him)

      -Why didn't Regina ask Hook to use his father's heart to cast the Dark Curse instead of using her father's. We saw the heart was the final ingredient, so at this point Henry Sr was still alive. 

      -If Hook absorbed all the Dark Ones inside Excalibur, how come he didn't absorbe Emma? She was still Dark Swan at this point

      Edward answered 1 and 3 above, and I can answer 2. Hook's father is not the thing he loves most, so he couldn't use his heart to cast the curse. Furthermore, Regina wanted this to be her curse, if she had Hook use the heart of the thing he loves most, it would be his curse.

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    • I think he is. What else did Hook love the most at this point?

      His brother is dead. Same Milah

      We even saw Hook tried to save his father. 

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    • To whoever said the Dark Ones were faceless 4eEN1JL.png

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    • 8Rob wrote:
      I think he is. What else did Hook love the most at this point?

      His brother is dead. Same Milah

      We even saw Hook tried to save his father. 

      He didn't even know he was alive, and he was mad at him anyway. Brennan is not the thing he loves most. If anything it would be Smee or something. Oh, Bae, it would be Bae. Duh. XD

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    • Hook and Bae :(

      I cant' believe they didn't get more screen time together

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    • Toma Cre wrote:
      I am not sure why you think banishing Zelena to Oz is such a bad thing considering the circumstances. With the DO crisis, they didn't have a lot of time left to explore other options. And Zelena was previously gloating over Robin and Regina's impending deaths (even after they tried to make peace with her) and said she would bring up her daughter to be "wicked". Do you really think she would make a good mother?

      Not sure if this was directed at me, but I'll respond anyway.

      I don't think it's bad, I just think it's a pointless non-solution. It's obvious Zelena is gonna get back eventually and now she'll have scorned mother issues to add to her "why I'm crazy" list. And to top it off, they've just left the damn kid to go on their underworld mission! 

      However I do reckon the people of Oz, who just got their crazy evil ruler back, will definitely think it's a bad thing... but so long as Regina gets to play happy families I'm sure that won't matter. And of course by "play happy families" I mean Regina and Robin's version, which apparently involves leaving the new born baby for who knows how long while they both take a life threatening treck through a dangerous world to find Emma's dead boyfriend. 

      I'm not all "poor, poor Zelena", I'm just baffled by Regina's words and choices recently. And her hypocricy still winds me up. She constantly goes on about her redemption and how bad she was and how long it took, but then she gives Zelena one episode and then banishes her for sitting in her chair and saying mean stuff? Let's be honest, Regina would've been banished like 10 times by now under such scrutiny. She's still doing bad stuff, shooting threats and using her evil queen mantle whenever it suits her. 

      Do I think Zelena would be a good mother? Honestly, I don't know. I wouldn't have pegged the woman who ripped her own father's heart out as mother of the year, but Henry's doing okay these days. What I do know is, it sure as hell isn't something Regina should be dictating.

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    • The same Bae he turned over to the Lost Boys and condemned to at least a century of misery in Neverland? 

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    • This might be more of a last episode question but...did Merlin's power come from the Darkness? I thought Nimue only created the darkness out of a more pure "Holy Grail magic"? Why was Merlin's regular magic turned dark when it was transferred to Hook?

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    • Boobfairy wrote:
      This might be more of a last episode question but...did Merlin's power come from the Darkness? I thought Nimue only created the darkness out of a more pure "Holy Grail magic"? Why was Merlin's regular magic turned dark when it was transferred to Hook?

      Think of it like a parasite.

      Emma was using powerful Dark magic to latch onto and remove Merlin's magic to transfer into Hook. Essentially, she ewas making a Dark One's curse. Emma's Dark HG magic corrupted Merlin's and the Dark One simply gained more power.

      The Darkness used the HG magic it was pulling from Merlin to grow itself and it latch onto Hook. Almost like a virus. It sees a cell full of resources and then latches onto that cell and make the cell make more copies of it.  So, Hook and Emma were both sharing the Darkness together, but also more of it than there was before.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      Think of it like a parasite.

      Emma was using powerful Dark magic to latch onto and remove Merlin's magic to transfer into Hook. Essentially, she ewas making a Dark One's curse. Emma's Dark HG magic corrupted Merlin's and the Dark One simply gained more power.

      Ooh that actually makes a lot of sense, thanks

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    • P3nathan wrote:
      I don't think it's bad, I just think it's a pointless non-solution. It's obvious Zelena is gonna get back eventually and now she'll have scorned mother issues to add to her "why I'm crazy" list. And to top it off, they've just left the damn kid to go on their underworld mission! 

      They didn't have time to think of a better option. Plus, if Emma's plan had succeeded (remember she told Regina before the Zelena face-off), all dark magic would have been destroyed. Zelena would have been powerless and a threat to no one. They couldn't have foreseen Rumple pulling a fast one over everyone.

      If Emma's plan failed, then the DO's would have revived and everyone else left in Storybrooke (fairies etc.) would have enough of a mess without adding a wicked witch to the mix. Sure, Zelena would return eventually, but that at least would give them some breathing room to think up of something. Maybe make more of Rumple's anti-shapeshifting potion so they could all mass migrate from Storybrooke. 

      However I do reckon the people of Oz, who just got their crazy evil ruler back, will definitely think it's a bad thing... but so long as Regina gets to play happy families I'm sure that won't matter. And of course by "play happy families" I mean Regina and Robin's version, which apparently involves leaving the new born baby for who knows how long while they both take a life threatening treck through a dangerous world to find Emma's dead boyfriend. 

      I have no idea why Robin needs to tag along or  why Snow and Charming would leave Baby Neal all alone. Regina needs to go for obvious reasons I think. Not only does she owe Emma a lot but except for Rumple, she would be the most useful out of the group. But ultimately Robin is the one who decides who should take care of his children, why blame Regina for a choice Robin makes?

      I'm not all "poor, poor Zelena", I'm just baffled by Regina's words and choices recently. And her hypocricy still winds me up. She constantly goes on about her redemption and how bad she was and how long it took

      No matter what bad things she had done in the past, she still has the right to defend her family and loved ones from threats. Most of the Storybrooke heroes have done questionable stuff in the past, should they just sit back and let Hook send them to the underworld?

      but then she gives Zelena one episode and then banishes her for sitting in her chair and saying mean stuff? Let's be honest, Regina would've been banished like 10 times by now under such scrutiny. She's still doing bad stuff, shooting threats and using her evil queen mantle whenever it suits her.

      After Season 4 finale, where Regina offered Zelena her second chance (so it was a lot more than 1 episode), what did she do that could possibly be on par with what Zelena had done? Zelena killed Marian, threatened to kill Robin, colluded with Rumple to rip away all the heroes' happy endings. She also took Snow hostage and along with Arthur, threatened Emma with their lives.

      And I think its pretty obvious she was in league with Hook during the DO saga so she was doing a lot more than just sitting in a chair and saying mean thing; or else how did she know what the DOs' plans (to mark Emma's family and friends) were? If she cared enough about her child, she would at least have tried to spare Robin so that Baby Hood wouldn't have to grow up without a father.

      Do I think Zelena would be a good mother? Honestly, I don't know. I wouldn't have pegged the woman who ripped her own father's heart out as mother of the year, but Henry's doing okay these days. What I do know is, it sure as hell isn't something Regina should be dictating.

      Except it was never Regina doing the dictating. It was Robin, the biological father (whom any judge would give custodial rights over Zelena), who told Zelena that their child should be given her best chance. Regina has always only ever said that she didn't want Zelena to take the child from Robin.

      And whether Zelena would make a good mother in the future isn't relevant to Robin's decision on whether Zelena should be allowed rights to Baby Hood in the present. If the adoption centre had known what kind of person Regina was, they certainly wouldn't have given Henry to her. Robin can only make his decision based on what kind of person Zelena presented herself to be, and she certainly didn't help herself make a good impression.

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    • Once a crocodile, always a crocodile. I wonder what Killian will do if Emma told him that Rumple is the dark one, again. All the dark ones combined. I HOPE KILLIAN WILL HAVE HIS REVENGE. Just kill Rumple.

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    • Look Toma but no. As much I love Regina. This time I think she so wrong to be mean to Zelena when she was given like 100 chances. Regina also is at blame since she let Rumple kill Zelena when she was offering another chance. At the end Regina with everything she has done is worse than Zelena and she should be the first person to give her THE CHANCES to change because she herself was given a lot of them by the others.

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    • Toma Cre wrote:

      I have no idea why Robin needs to tag along or  why Snow and Charming would leave Baby Neal all alone. Regina needs to go for obvious reasons I think. Not only does she owe Emma a lot but except for Rumple, she would be the most useful out of the group. 

      Adam tweeted the original script for that scene. 

      Mary Margaret wants to help Emma, because she finally opened herself up to love. David is going, because he likes adventure. Regina is helping Emma as a friend, not because she owes her a debt. Also, the babies are with the fairies/nuns.

      It is very possible, that no one will be able to use magic down in the Underworld. Which would render Regina, and Gold virtually useless. 

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    • There were a couple of aspects I didn't like, but overall I really liked the episode and I'm just hopeful that some of the unanswered questions will be answered in future.

      I suppose the question of what happens to Liam Jones 2.0 may be answered sometime in future - perhaps he may even turn up when the time is right. I sincerely hope the writers aren't that stupid that they'd just cast him aside once Hook has heard his name and decided to kill his father, especially since Hook would SURELY want to make sure his half-brother is safe.

      I was so glad Hook died a good man again. I mean I'm still disappointed that he gave into the Darkness so easily, but whatever.

      But WHAT THE ACTUAL F**K GOLD!!! He was a hero, an actual HERO, without any Dark-One-ness to sway him, and he STILL betrayed Belle and everyone again. I mean, I was thinking/hoping he would become the Dark One again, since Rumple Bumple is the main reason anyone watches this show, but I hoped for something better than this half-baked reason of "that's just the man I am LOL".

      After all this personality juggling with Hook and Gold, who's next? Is Regina suddenly gonna say "you know what, screw it, I'm gonna be evil again because PLOT!" oh wait, that's right, she just used Dark magic (and Light) to send her sister back to Oz.

      While I was quite satisfied with the cliffhanger (mostly because it means Hook can come back), I'm not sure how I feel about Emma stealing David and Snow's "I will always find you", but maybe that's just because I associate that with David and I HATE David (didn't even have a proper goodbye for his daughter, just let Snow do the whole "I love you" monologue). In fact, I wish David and Snow weren't going to the Underworld since they were so ready to give up in this episode like nah, you're not heroes anymore, you're just 2 whiny half-supportive parents with a baby.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Jordy267 wrote:
      There were a couple of aspects I didn't like, but overall I really liked the episode and I'm just hopeful that some of the unanswered questions will be answered in future.

      I suppose the question of what happens to Liam Jones 2.0 may be answered sometime in future - perhaps he may even turn up when the time is right. I sincerely hope the writers aren't that stupid that they'd just cast him aside once Hook has heard his name and decided to kill his father, especially since Hook would SURELY want to make sure his half-brother is safe.

      I was so glad Hook died a good man again. I mean I'm still disappointed that he gave into the Darkness so easily, but whatever.

      But WHAT THE ACTUAL F**K GOLD!!! He was a hero, an actual HERO, without any Dark-One-ness to sway him, and he STILL betrayed Belle and everyone again. I mean, I was thinking/hoping he would become the Dark One again, since Rumple Bumple is the main reason anyone watches this show, but I hoped for something better than this half-baked reason of "that's just the man I am LOL".

      After all this personality juggling with Hook and Gold, who's next? Is Regina suddenly gonna say "you know what, screw it, I'm gonna be evil again because PLOT!" oh wait, that's right, she just used Dark magic (and Light) to send her sister back to Oz.

      While I was quite satisfied with the cliffhanger (mostly because it means Hook can come back), I'm not sure how I feel about Emma stealing David and Snow's "I will always find you", but maybe that's just because I associate that with David and I HATE David (didn't even have a proper goodbye for his daughter, just let Snow do the whole "I love you" monologue). In fact, I wish David and Snow weren't going to the Underworld since they were so ready to give up in this episode like nah, you're not heroes anymore, you're just 2 whiny half-supportive parents with a baby.

      Regina switches all the time.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Avatar Beta wrote:
      Jordy267 wrote:
      There were a couple of aspects I didn't like, but overall I really liked the episode and I'm just hopeful that some of the unanswered questions will be answered in future.

      I suppose the question of what happens to Liam Jones 2.0 may be answered sometime in future - perhaps he may even turn up when the time is right. I sincerely hope the writers aren't that stupid that they'd just cast him aside once Hook has heard his name and decided to kill his father, especially since Hook would SURELY want to make sure his half-brother is safe.

      I was so glad Hook died a good man again. I mean I'm still disappointed that he gave into the Darkness so easily, but whatever.

      But WHAT THE ACTUAL F**K GOLD!!! He was a hero, an actual HERO, without any Dark-One-ness to sway him, and he STILL betrayed Belle and everyone again. I mean, I was thinking/hoping he would become the Dark One again, since Rumple Bumple is the main reason anyone watches this show, but I hoped for something better than this half-baked reason of "that's just the man I am LOL".

      After all this personality juggling with Hook and Gold, who's next? Is Regina suddenly gonna say "you know what, screw it, I'm gonna be evil again because PLOT!" oh wait, that's right, she just used Dark magic (and Light) to send her sister back to Oz.

      While I was quite satisfied with the cliffhanger (mostly because it means Hook can come back), I'm not sure how I feel about Emma stealing David and Snow's "I will always find you", but maybe that's just because I associate that with David and I HATE David (didn't even have a proper goodbye for his daughter, just let Snow do the whole "I love you" monologue). In fact, I wish David and Snow weren't going to the Underworld since they were so ready to give up in this episode like nah, you're not heroes anymore, you're just 2 whiny half-supportive parents with a baby.

      Regina switches all the time.

      A bit of a correction: Regina is opportunistically evil (or dark, or whatever).

      Likewise, Rumple is opportunistically good. Hook is simply one who puts all his eggs in one fragile basket.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:

      Avatar Beta wrote:
      Jordy267 wrote:
      There were a couple of aspects I didn't like, but overall I really liked the episode and I'm just hopeful that some of the unanswered questions will be answered in future.

      I suppose the question of what happens to Liam Jones 2.0 may be answered sometime in future - perhaps he may even turn up when the time is right. I sincerely hope the writers aren't that stupid that they'd just cast him aside once Hook has heard his name and decided to kill his father, especially since Hook would SURELY want to make sure his half-brother is safe.

      I was so glad Hook died a good man again. I mean I'm still disappointed that he gave into the Darkness so easily, but whatever.

      But WHAT THE ACTUAL F**K GOLD!!! He was a hero, an actual HERO, without any Dark-One-ness to sway him, and he STILL betrayed Belle and everyone again. I mean, I was thinking/hoping he would become the Dark One again, since Rumple Bumple is the main reason anyone watches this show, but I hoped for something better than this half-baked reason of "that's just the man I am LOL".

      After all this personality juggling with Hook and Gold, who's next? Is Regina suddenly gonna say "you know what, screw it, I'm gonna be evil again because PLOT!" oh wait, that's right, she just used Dark magic (and Light) to send her sister back to Oz.

      While I was quite satisfied with the cliffhanger (mostly because it means Hook can come back), I'm not sure how I feel about Emma stealing David and Snow's "I will always find you", but maybe that's just because I associate that with David and I HATE David (didn't even have a proper goodbye for his daughter, just let Snow do the whole "I love you" monologue). In fact, I wish David and Snow weren't going to the Underworld since they were so ready to give up in this episode like nah, you're not heroes anymore, you're just 2 whiny half-supportive parents with a baby.

      Regina switches all the time.

      A bit of a correction: Regina is opportunistically evil (or dark, or whatever).

      Likewise, Rumple is opportunistically good. Hook is simply one who puts all his eggs in one fragile basket.

      Question Eskaver? Adam said something from twitter when someone asked about "Why Emma doesn't accept Hook's death but does Neal's" He answered "We address that in 5B". What did he mean by saying that? Did he mean they have answered that or will answer that soon?

      Here is the link of twitter: https://twitter.com/AdamHorowitzLA/status/674135476014477312

      And here is the page from this site of season 5 where I found the question or Storyline Info: http://onceuponatime.wikia.com/wiki/Season_Five

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • NickyHelp wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:

      Avatar Beta wrote:
      Jordy267 wrote:
      There were a couple of aspects I didn't like, but overall I really liked the episode and I'm just hopeful that some of the unanswered questions will be answered in future.

      I suppose the question of what happens to Liam Jones 2.0 may be answered sometime in future - perhaps he may even turn up when the time is right. I sincerely hope the writers aren't that stupid that they'd just cast him aside once Hook has heard his name and decided to kill his father, especially since Hook would SURELY want to make sure his half-brother is safe.

      I was so glad Hook died a good man again. I mean I'm still disappointed that he gave into the Darkness so easily, but whatever.

      But WHAT THE ACTUAL F**K GOLD!!! He was a hero, an actual HERO, without any Dark-One-ness to sway him, and he STILL betrayed Belle and everyone again. I mean, I was thinking/hoping he would become the Dark One again, since Rumple Bumple is the main reason anyone watches this show, but I hoped for something better than this half-baked reason of "that's just the man I am LOL".

      After all this personality juggling with Hook and Gold, who's next? Is Regina suddenly gonna say "you know what, screw it, I'm gonna be evil again because PLOT!" oh wait, that's right, she just used Dark magic (and Light) to send her sister back to Oz.

      While I was quite satisfied with the cliffhanger (mostly because it means Hook can come back), I'm not sure how I feel about Emma stealing David and Snow's "I will always find you", but maybe that's just because I associate that with David and I HATE David (didn't even have a proper goodbye for his daughter, just let Snow do the whole "I love you" monologue). In fact, I wish David and Snow weren't going to the Underworld since they were so ready to give up in this episode like nah, you're not heroes anymore, you're just 2 whiny half-supportive parents with a baby.

      Regina switches all the time.
      A bit of a correction: Regina is opportunistically evil (or dark, or whatever).

      Likewise, Rumple is opportunistically good. Hook is simply one who puts all his eggs in one fragile basket.

      Question Eskaver? Adam said something from twitter when someone asked about "Why Emma doesn't accept Hook's death but does Neal's" He answered "We address that in 5B". What did he mean by saying that? Did he mean they have answered that or will answer that soon?

      Here is the link of twitter: https://twitter.com/AdamHorowitzLA/status/674135476014477312

      And here is the page from this site of season 5 where I found the question or Storyline Info: http://onceuponatime.wikia.com/wiki/Season_Five

      It means what it says, it'll be shown in an upcoming episode.

      Obviously, Neal sacrificed himself so everyone would know who the Wicked Witch was (Zelena) which ultimately led to her defeat. He died a hero. Hook sacrificed himself so Rumple could be the Dark One again. He died a pawn.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Anyhow, that's potential spoilers.

      And I agree with Edward in part, except the part about Hook. Emma's still selfish and justifying it because he died in vain.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote: Anyhow, that's potential spoilers.

      And I agree with Edward in part, except the part about Hook. Emma's still selfish and justifying it because he died in vain.

      Thanks. But you didn't answer what Adam is saying by addressing it in 5B. I ask again. Did he mean they have answered that or will answer that soon when 5B arrives?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:

      And I agree with Edward in part, except the part about Hook. Emma's still selfish and justifying it because he died in vain.

      Whether Emma is being selfish or not, Hook did sacrifice himself in vain. Not only that, but she was forced to kill him for nothing. She obviously feels betrayed, because they both were just Gold's pawns. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:

      Whether Emma is being selfish or not, Hook did sacrifice himself in vain. Not only that, but she was forced to kill him for nothing.

      He accomplished what they all set out to do at the beginning - get rid of the darkness in Emma. So not really in vain. If it came down to a choice between getting rid of all the darkness for good and saving Emma, pretty sure that Hook and the rest would choose to save Emma.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • NickyHelp wrote:

      Eskaver wrote: Anyhow, that's potential spoilers.

      And I agree with Edward in part, except the part about Hook. Emma's still selfish and justifying it because he died in vain.

      Thanks. But you didn't answer what Adam is saying by addressing it in 5B. I ask again. Did he mean they have answered that or will answer that soon when 5B arrives?

      Seriously? I told you, it means it'll be in an upcoming episode.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Toma Cre wrote:

      He accomplished what they all set out to do at the beginning - get rid of the darkness in Emma. So not really in vain. If it came down to a choice between getting rid of all the darkness for good and saving Emma, pretty sure that Hook and the rest would choose to save Emma.

      Perhaps.... but that does not change that fact, that Emma feels betrayed.

      Regina and Mary Margaret have been selfish in the past, when it comes to saving the ones they love. Which is probably why they are being supportive, of Emma's decision to share her heart with Hook. It is Emma's fault, Hook was condemned to the Underworld. Has she let him go in Camelot, his soul probably would have moved on.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:

      NickyHelp wrote:

      Eskaver wrote: Anyhow, that's potential spoilers.

      And I agree with Edward in part, except the part about Hook. Emma's still selfish and justifying it because he died in vain.

      Thanks. But you didn't answer what Adam is saying by addressing it in 5B. I ask again. Did he mean they have answered that or will answer that soon when 5B arrives?

      Seriously? I told you, it means it'll be in an upcoming episode.

      Not to seem rude, but I wasn't asking you.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:

      Toma Cre wrote:

      He accomplished what they all set out to do at the beginning - get rid of the darkness in Emma. So not really in vain. If it came down to a choice between getting rid of all the darkness for good and saving Emma, pretty sure that Hook and the rest would choose to save Emma.

      Perhaps.... but that does not change that fact, that Emma feels betrayed.

      Regina and Mary Margaret have been selfish in the past, when it comes to saving the ones they love. Which is probably why they are being supportive, of Emma's decision to share her heart with Hook. It is Emma's fault, Hook was condemned to the Underworld. Has she let him go in Camelot, his soul probably would have moved on.

      Yeah but Regina was not sure if it will work. She said it could but it might not officially sure she was thinking. And I am not sure if they would want to make the same mistake in the future and not want Emma to make it two.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • NickyHelp wrote:

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:


      NickyHelp wrote:

      Eskaver wrote: Anyhow, that's potential spoilers.

      And I agree with Edward in part, except the part about Hook. Emma's still selfish and justifying it because he died in vain.

      Thanks. But you didn't answer what Adam is saying by addressing it in 5B. I ask again. Did he mean they have answered that or will answer that soon when 5B arrives?
      Seriously? I told you, it means it'll be in an upcoming episode.
      Not to seem rude, but I wasn't asking you.

      And I care why? You asked a question, it was answered. It's not like Eskaver's answer would be any different.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:

      NickyHelp wrote:

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:


      NickyHelp wrote:

      Eskaver wrote: Anyhow, that's potential spoilers.

      And I agree with Edward in part, except the part about Hook. Emma's still selfish and justifying it because he died in vain.

      Thanks. But you didn't answer what Adam is saying by addressing it in 5B. I ask again. Did he mean they have answered that or will answer that soon when 5B arrives?
      Seriously? I told you, it means it'll be in an upcoming episode.
      Not to seem rude, but I wasn't asking you.

      And I care why? You asked a question, it was answered. It's not like Eskaver's answer would be any different.

      It is to me. Some of your answers are not completely true. I was asking what Adam is saying and planning, not what the characters are doing. And I find Eskaver's answers a little more logical and better sometimes.

      One more time Eskaver. Would you please answer my other question?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • (MOD) Stop the senseless bickering. Everyone is free to answer questions posed as this is a forum, not a private conversation.

      Anyhow, this thread is about Swan Song, so if you have any questions about 5b, ask it on a 5b thread or make one.

      To answer your question, think about the question and answer it. Assuming English is your first language or a common language, I can't or shouldn't answer that question because it's rethorical.

      What does Adam mean by addressing it in 5b? The answer is Adam says that they will address it in 5b. There's nothing else to it. 5b is when they come back in spring with season 5b. You can't be confused about it. If they say it's in the future, it's in the future.

      Now, any questions, please use the appropriate thread. Discuss Swan Song or it will be removed.

      P.S. I answer questions at my leisure, Edward's was perfectly fine.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote: (MOD) Stop the senseless bickering. Everyone is free to answer questions posed as this is a forum, not a private conversation.

      Anyhow, this thread is about Swan Song, so if you have any questions about 5b, ask it on a 5b thread or make one.

      To answer your question, think about the question and answer it. Assuming English is your first language or a common language, I can't or shouldn't answer that question because it's rethorical.

      What does Adam mean by addressing it in 5b? The answer is Adam says that they will address it in 5b. There's nothing else to it. 5b is when they come back in spring with season 5b. You can't be confused about it. If they say it's in the future, it's in the future.

      Now, any questions, please use the appropriate thread. Discuss Swan Song or it will be removed.

      P.S. I answer questions at my leisure, Edward's was perfectly fine.

      That's all I wanted to know. And my most sincere apologies to all. And my most sincere apologies to you Edwards.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • MOD:

      Also, please keep in mind that this is the General discussion forum. Any discussions about future episodes, arcs, etc, that are based on information received from one of the spoiler sources are considered.. wait for it... A SPOILER!

      and spoilers belong in the spoiler forum, so as to prevent people from accidentally finding a spoiler.

      Point being, if Adam and Eddy say anything about the future plans, those are considered spoilers and should not be posted or linked here.

      Thank you!

      END MOD!

      PS: (SPOILER ALERT) In the end it was Professer Plum in the Kitchen with the Wrench!

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Hmcooper4 wrote:
      MOD:

      Also, please keep in mind that this is the General discussion forum. Any discussions about future episodes, arcs, etc, that are based on information received from one of the spoiler sources are considered.. wait for it... A SPOILER!

      and spoilers belong in the spoiler forum, so as to prevent people from accidentally finding a spoiler.

      Point being, if Adam and Eddy say anything about the future plans, those are considered spoilers and should not be posted or linked here.

      Thank you!

      END MOD!

      PS: (SPOILER ALERT) In the end it was Professer Plum in the Kitchen with the Wrench!

      Aw, I thought it was Mrs. Peacock in the Study with the Lamp!

      BAck to topic, I actually won't mind rewatching it. The ending as controversial as it may be, I actually liked the tone or season 1-ish feel that it had.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:

      BAck to topic, I actually won't mind rewatching it. The ending as controversial as it may be, I actually liked the tone or season 1-ish feel that it had.

      What.... when Emma used her father's cheesy catchphrase?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      BAck to topic, I actually won't mind rewatching it. The ending as controversial as it may be, I actually liked the tone or season 1-ish feel that it had.

      What.... when Emma used her father's cheesy catchphrase?

      No, that was terrible. I guess she gets his hair color, intellect, sword skills, and cheesy catchphrase. I think she should work on that.

      I was mostly talking about Emma and then Rumple.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:

      I was mostly talking about Emma and then Rumple.

      I will be perfectly honest.... Emma was a heck of a lot more intimidating, when she blackmailed Gold, than she ever was as the Dark Swan.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Emma using the Snowing catchphrase was awesome xD

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Killian Jones wrote:
      Emma using the Snowing catchphrase was awesome xD

      In theory it was awesome.... but the catchphrase is so cheesy, that it killed the moment.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Killian Jones wrote:
      Emma using the Snowing catchphrase was awesome xD
      In theory it was awesome.... but the catchphrase is so cheesy, that it killed the moment.

      It was really OOC as well.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Farerb wrote:
      ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Killian Jones wrote:
      Emma using the Snowing catchphrase was awesome xD
      In theory it was awesome.... but the catchphrase is so cheesy, that it killed the moment.
      It was really OOC as well.

      Plus, it was not earned.

      David first used it and it was a bit cheesy, but they constantly lost each other to then find each other again. That isn't Hook-Emma. Also, they need to get their own thing. They aren't the same, which is why I'm happy Hook isn't a secret prince or something.

      If she said, "I will find you, always." Nice twist, but it doesn't fit the moment. Say she won't go down with the ship, ship set sail, won't sink this ship, or something XD

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I never found it cheesy.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I also remembered that that line was taken from Buffy as well.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:

      If she said, "I will find you, always." Nice twist, but it doesn't fit the moment. Say she won't go down with the ship, ship set sail, won't sink this ship, or something XD

      Dude, that is even cheesier! 

      Emma should have said, "Hook, I will follow to the ends of the earth.... or Hell".... or something like that.  Which would have been a nice callback, to Hook's line in the S3 finale.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      If she said, "I will find you, always." Nice twist, but it doesn't fit the moment. Say she won't go down with the ship, ship set sail, won't sink this ship, or something XD

      Dude, that is even cheesier! 

      Emma should have said, "Hook, I will follow to the ends of the earth.... or Hell".... or something like that.  Which would have been a nice callback, to Hook's line in the S3 finale.

      Haha, I know, but the David line wasn't her.

      Would have accepted if David said, "That's my line." Or just have music and no talking.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:
      ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      If she said, "I will find you, always." Nice twist, but it doesn't fit the moment. Say she won't go down with the ship, ship set sail, won't sink this ship, or something XD

      Dude, that is even cheesier! 

      Emma should have said, "Hook, I will follow to the ends of the earth.... or Hell".... or something like that.  Which would have been a nice callback, to Hook's line in the S3 finale.

      Haha, I know, but the David line wasn't her.

      Would have accepted if David said, "That's my line." Or just have music and no talking.

      You could see on his face in the background that he was thinking "Bitch you just stole my line. They already gave Robin the stupid questions I always ask and now this! I have nothing to say".

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote: Or just have music and no talking.

      That would have been the best thing.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      If she said, "I will find you, always." Nice twist, but it doesn't fit the moment. Say she won't go down with the ship, ship set sail, won't sink this ship, or something XD

      Dude, that is even cheesier! 

      Emma should have said, "Hook, I will follow to the ends of the earth.... or Hell".... or something like that.  Which would have been a nice callback, to Hook's line in the S3 finale.

      I would have been content if Emma had just said, "I'll find you, Hook", because that would be a looser homage to the fact she has taken the lessons her family gave her (about finding, and saving their loved ones) and basically having her say her own version of it. No, to say, "I will always find you" is clearly a Snowing thing, and when she said it, I didn't like it because it felt like she was trying too much to be like her parents. The love Emma and Hook have for each other isn't the same as Snow and Charming. I'm not saying it's not a deep love, but it has a different weight and feel to it. That's what makes both loves unique, and that they don't need to be the same.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Applegirl wrote:

      I would have been content if Emma had just said, "I'll find you, Hook", because that would be a looser homage to the fact she has taken the lessons her family gave her (about finding, and saving their loved ones) and basically having her say her own version of it. No, to say, "I will always find you" is clearly a Snowing thing, and when she said it, I didn't like it because it felt like she was trying too much to be like her parents. The love Emma and Hook have for each other isn't the same as Snow and Charming. I'm not saying it's not a deep love, but it has a different weight and feel to it. That's what makes both loves unique, and that they don't need to be the same.

      When has OUaT ever been known for its subtlety?

      While there have been many parallels, between Snowing and CaptainSwan in the past. This one took it way too far. Like you said, the two relationships are very different. Snowing have a classic storybook romance, and are now an old married couple. Whereas, CaptainSwan is a modern version of a fairytale, still in the prossess of being told. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Looking back over the episode and thinking it over, the episode in and of itself wasn't tht bad of an episode. Just watching it alone, it has B+ level of storytelling meaning it's a fairly decent episode.

      + Emotional atmosphere, writing and dialogue and music

      + Tense moments

      + Cinematography

      + Parallels

      - "In The Nick of Time" Hook's change

      - Deflated "hype" and suspension

      - "vial of magic"

      A decent episode, but if you rmemeber that it's a piece of a larger puzzle, that's where it falls flat. The biggest fail in Once is always the payoff, but in this case it's just the episode having scenes unearned.

      Emma and family scenes were unearned. Emma and Snow scenes were unearned, mostly. It was lovely and had all the "feels" but the show didn't earn it. Snow has been so far away from Emma, you'd think she was trying to avoid her.

      Zelena's banishment was unearned. The only ones who would like it is if they hated Zelena or loved Regina. However, it wasn't earned. The previous episode and the season demonstrated a chance at humanity within Zelena, but that was dropped like a bad habit and she was quickly banished.

      Rumple and Belle's scene was unearned. Belle was to go see the world and take a breather beyond the angst, but she quickly came back. While touching, it wasn't earned after Belle's whole self-respect speech.

      Robert Carlyle used subtlety in the episode which was cool to look back at and see when Rumple returned to the dark side. However, this show hasn't earned his level of subtlety in his acting. This show is Evil Queen's level of subtlety which is none at all. They mentioned the Underworld. Sent beasts from the Underworld. Saw dead loved Ones from the Underworld. Remembered time spent in the Underworld. Did I mention they mentioned the Underworld?

      Hook's quick turn was unearned in this short arc of his. Just how Regina's quick change in the episode "Mother", this flashback that calls itself into the plot was unearned. These things should come up earlier. Someone should have told Regina that something else may be standing in her way of happiness. Hook should have mentioned early on that he was trying to be the man Emma deserved, a noble one or something close to that. Same with Rumple.

      Rumple's quick turn done with subtle acting was unearned. He should have felt his lust for power as he was afraid. He should have shown more signs, perhaps even a dream sequence. It was a nice parallel to the season 1 finale to have Regina and Emma to come into his shop for a sword to stop evil and for him to betray them, but..........nope, not at all deserved. It was a cool parallel for Belle to return just like the season 1 finale, but it wasn't earned. This is the third time there is an evil plan behind Belle's back.

      So much was unearned character-wise and scene by scene. This brings the episode down to what was truly earned which was a D+.

      Then if you take off what you may for individual greivances like shipping (or character) angst and hate-fuel, reused storytelling elements, or even being used to the usual Once end (where the characters solely used for this arc leave and get closure). But whatever it is, the episode on its merits of storytelling as a part of the entire series was shallow. As a season arc finale, it was below average. As an episode, it was decent at best.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:

      Hook should have mentioned early on that he was trying to be the man Emma deserved, a noble one or something close to that. Same with Rumple.

      Except, this was mentioned many times, in previous episodes of the arc. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      Hook should have mentioned early on that he was trying to be the man Emma deserved, a noble one or something close to that. Same with Rumple.

      Except, this was mentioned many times, in previous episodes of the arc. 

      I'll rewatch the episodes, but I meant more in the veins of being the man he wanted to be, subtlely.

      He should have mentioned being the man Emma anted to be, but failed until this episode where he succeeded. It would be like a reverse Rumple.

      And what about the rest I said. (I think I know you like Hook, but that can't be the only thing you saw.)

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      I'll rewatch the episodes, but I meant more in the veins of being the man he wanted to be, subtlely.

      He should have mentioned being the man Emma anted to be, but failed until this episode where he succeeded. It would be like a reverse Rumple.

      And what about the rest I said. (I think I know you like Hook, but that can't be the only thing you saw.)

      I agreed with most of what you wrote about the episode, but just wanted to point out that one thing. Hook mentioned that he changed, in some of the earlier episodes of the Camelot arc.... it is why he dumped her.

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      I'll rewatch the episodes, but I meant more in the veins of being the man he wanted to be, subtlely.

      He should have mentioned being the man Emma anted to be, but failed until this episode where he succeeded. It would be like a reverse Rumple.

      And what about the rest I said. (I think I know you like Hook, but that can't be the only thing you saw.)

      I agreed with most of what you wrote about the episode, but just wanted to point out that one thing. Hook mentioned that he changed, in some of the earlier episodes of the Camelot arc.... it is why he dumped her.

      Well, that doesn't work. That's more of a case against him in anyway. Plus, he later apologized for what happened in those episodes.

      Hook is pretty much a more aware version of a villain and he does good by that standard, but in those scenes he was showing how much faith he had in their love which was quickly to go down to zero. His hatred of the DO overpowered his love for Emma in the breiefest of moments and he asked for forgiveness later.Delightful, and I even growed a soft spot for Hook, but that doesn't relate to being the man he wants to be. One can stretch it a little and I can even give you that if you mention the parts during his first death in Birth. However, Broken Heart sort of craps on that idea and then brings it back through flashback "Eureka!"

      So, the payoff for Hook's DO time being that Eureka moment was poor. His DO time wasn't long enough to get really too invested in it, even though Colin acted his heart out. He never had time to stop and think. There were no scenes of inner turmoil in the current part of the storyline. It's quite laughable that Hook changes when he sees his immortal girlfriend get choked in vain efforts. It probably wouldn't have been so bad if Nimue was making Hook choke Emma, or attempt to kill Emma.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      So, the payoff for Hook's DO time being that Eureka moment was poor. His DO time wasn't long enough to get really too invested in it, even though Colin acted his heart out. He never had time to stop and think. There were no scenes of inner turmoil in the current part of the storyline.

      I actually enjoyed that Hook's inner turmoil, was more subtle than Emma's. The voices in Emma's head, at times was about as subtle as being hit by a train. Whereas, with Hook it was all in his eyes. Like you said, Colin acted his heart out. That was where the payoff was, not so much in the writing. 

      Also, one does need to remember just how impulsive Hook is. He has always been ruled by his emotions. Emma had the perfect opportunity to come clean in 5.08, and she still choice to manipulate him. Hook was forced to find out what happened, in Camelot, from Zelena.... which was a recipe for disaster.

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      So, the payoff for Hook's DO time being that Eureka moment was poor. His DO time wasn't long enough to get really too invested in it, even though Colin acted his heart out. He never had time to stop and think. There were no scenes of inner turmoil in the current part of the storyline.

      I actually enjoyed that Hook's inner turmoil, was more subtle than Emma's. The voices in Emma's head, at times was about as subtle as being hit by a train. Whereas, with Hook it was all in his eyes. Like you said, Colin acted his heart out. That was where the payoff was, not so much in the writing. 

      Also, one does need to remember just how impulsive Hook is. He has always been ruled by his emotions. Emma had the perfect opportunity to come clean in 5.08, and she still choice to manipulate him. Hook was forced to find out what happened, in Camelot, from Zelena.... which was a recipe for disaster.

      I'll agree with everything except the inner turmoil part.  He had turmoil over loving the Dark One, but no real turmoil over being the Dark One. Now, you could say that's what the flashbacks are for, but he showed no turmoil in being the dark one in SB. He was simply, evil for the fun of it. He wasn't torn over doing the right or wrong thing.

      Payoff should not be in the acting solely. But of course, Emma;s inner turmoil wasn't subtle, but it worked. Meanwhile Hook's was "Do this....for revenge." and he was all for it. Signs of a struggle at least. But getting baclk to this epiosde, there should have been signs of a struggle in tis episode. He struggled with revenge and father, but in the present day, he flipped a switch as if he's some robot.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      Meanwhile Hook's was "Do this....for revenge." and he was all for it. Signs of a struggle at least. But getting baclk to this epiosde, there should have been signs of a struggle in tis episode. He struggled with revenge and father, but in the present day, he flipped a switch as if he's some robot.

      I guess another problem was that episodes 5.08, 5.10, and 5.11 all took place within 24 hours. When was there time for any of the characters to think? Everyone was in Storybrooke for 3 weeks, and the climax was a 12 hour period. 

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      Zelena's banishment was unearned. The only ones who would like it is if they hated Zelena or loved Regina.

      Isn't it rather presumptuous and simplistic to label people as either haters or lovers of either character based on how they feel about one scene?

      You could love both characters but still feel that the banishment was justified based on how Zelena was acting or you could hate Regina and feel that the scene was a testament to how she hadn't really changed or you could be neutral to both characters and just like the showdown. Those are just some possibilities.

      However, it wasn't earned. The previous episode and the season demonstrated a chance at humanity within Zelena, but that was dropped like a bad habit and she was quickly banished.

      I don't recall any actions she took or statements she made that showed that she was willing to re-conciliate in some manner.

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      Meanwhile Hook's was "Do this....for revenge." and he was all for it. Signs of a struggle at least. But getting baclk to this epiosde, there should have been signs of a struggle in tis episode. He struggled with revenge and father, but in the present day, he flipped a switch as if he's some robot.

      I guess another problem was that episodes 5.08, 5.10, and 5.11 all took place within 24 hours. When was there time for any of the characters to think? Everyone was in Storybrooke for 3 weeks, and the climax was a 12 hour period. 

      Yeah, that's a TV problem where it's highly unrealistic timing.

      I can pass Hook's stuff off as he never had time to think. But then gaian, the characters never have down time and when they do, they have it at the wrong time. So, I still feel as though Hook's last minute swtich was unearned as Reigna's was and Regina was going the whole season about happiness, but even so, a random flashback does make things acceptable.

      Cora telling Regina in a flashback that she is stnding in her own way of happiness is supported by her dream sequence, but her change happened as if she was magically conked on the head. Same with Hook. He had a moment about being the person he wants to be, but then in the finale it's like he was cocked on the head and realized the epiosde's theme.

      I have my problems with Hook. I have my problems with the show's sense of morality, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out and shouldn't take long to figure out that he shouldn't be trying to kill off his love's family. Say what you want about their relationship, but look underneath all the pretty and you see the ugly. He sat there happily condemning the beloved's family of people that he befriended to death, but then saw his beloved choking to change. That may not bother you, but let's recap:

      Hook is "killing"  or allowing the killing of:

      - Emma's parents, whom she worked hard to love and to find.

      - Emma's friends

      - But more importantly, Emma's son

      I may often hearken back to season 3 being the good old days, but nothing stood between Emma and her son. Not Regina, not her parents, and not love interest # 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. Now, there's this pesky puppy love that pushing between Emma's love for her son and herself. Pretty much her romance with Hook is like the dagger to Rumple and Baelfire. Nothing ever stood between Rumple and Bae. Rumple crippled himself to see his son. Rumple became the dark One to save his son. But then the dagger came and rsiked the wellbeing of his son. Rumple's a bad, bad man. But Replace Rumple with Emma, Bae with Henry and the dagger with Hook. Alter some of the situations and it's pretty much similar.

      I like Hook a bit and it's understandable that Emma has a love interest. It's even passable with the extreme levels of forgiveness, but at this point her relationship with Hook is hurting and has hurted relationship with Henry.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      Hook is pretty much a more aware version of a villain and he does good by that standard, but in those scenes he was showing how much faith he had in their love which was quickly to go down to zero. His hatred of the DO overpowered his love for Emma in the breiefest of moments and he asked for forgiveness later.Delightful, and I even growed a soft spot for Hook, but that doesn't relate to being the man he wants to be. One can stretch it a little and I can even give you that if you mention the parts during his first death in Birth. However, Broken Heart sort of craps on that idea and then brings it back through flashback "Eureka!"

      I have to disagree, because the Camelot arc proved one thing.... you CANNOT love the Dark One. If you do, it will lead to your doom.

      Merlin was transformed into a tree and eventually killed, because of his love for Nimue. Hook was transformed into a second Dark One, against his wishes, because of his love for Emma. Mary Margaret, David, Henry, Regina, and Robin were condemned to the Underworld, because of their feelings for Emma. Belle is consistantly manipulated and lied to, because of her love for Rumplestiltskin. It does not matter who the vessel is, because in the end the Dark One is the darkest of all souls. 

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    • I disagree with the comparison of Hook as Emma's "Dagger". You say that nothing stands between Emma and Henry, and that statement is fact. Going back to Broken Heart, Emma did something that would hurt Henry to free Merlin (and as a side comment, taking a 13 year old girl's heart falls into the Evil category, so stop complaining about them not showing the darkness within Emma), with the desired result being to rid herself of the Darkness. I think had she rid herself of the darkness at that point, she would have come clean, taken her lumps, and moved on.  Fast Forward to Storybrooke, and we see Emma arranging things to make up (at least in her mind) for the damage done.

      Clearly the darkness was clouding her judgement.

      When Hook threatened her family, especially Henry, she had to struggle, yes (but who wouldn't). But in the end she chose to sacrifice Hook for everyone else. There is NO way that Gold would EVER have done that for Bae.

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    • Hmcooper4 wrote:

      When Hook threatened her family, especially Henry, she had to struggle, yes (but who wouldn't). But in the end she chose to sacrifice Hook for everyone else. There is NO way that Gold would EVER have done that for Bae.

      What are you talking about?!? Gold sacrificed his life for Bae, Belle and the rest of Storybrooke in a situation that wasn't his fault. That was heroism and a selfless act. In 315 he had to make the choice between Bae and his dagger and he chose Bae. They just want all of us to forget about those and pretend that Gold was always a selfish man when he wasn't.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      I have my problems with Hook. I have my problems with the show's sense of morality, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out and shouldn't take long to figure out that he shouldn't be trying to kill off his love's family.

      Sorry, but it did not take long at all. Dark Hook's "rampage" was less than 24 hours. Whereas, the Dark Swan was "terrorizing" Storybrooke for over 3 weeks. 

      Emma was the only one, who hurt the people she loved ones, this season. She broke her son's heart, by manipulating him. She pushed her parents away. She stole Merida's heart, and tried to kill Belle and Gold. She even tried to get revenge on Regina and Robin, when the Fury showed up. She transformed Hook, into a second Dark One against his wishes, and lied to cover it up. Above all.... Emma was the one who did not want, to rid herself of the Darkness. 

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    • Farerb wrote:
      Hmcooper4 wrote:

      When Hook threatened her family, especially Henry, she had to struggle, yes (but who wouldn't). But in the end she chose to sacrifice Hook for everyone else. There is NO way that Gold would EVER have done that for Bae.

      What are you talking about?!? Gold sacrificed his life for Bae, Belle and the rest of Storybrooke in a situation that wasn't his fault. That was heroism and a selfless act. In 315 he had to make the choice between Bae and his dagger and he chose Bae. They just want all of us to forget about those and pretend that Gold was always a selfish man when he wasn't.

      3x11, yes Gold did make the ultimate sacrifice. But interesting, in retrospect, he did not give up the dagger or his power. Given the way that Rumple makes deals, I wonder if he already knew the loophole in his "death" and was willing to gamble that someone would eventually come to free him. (he just did not anticipate it being Bae).

      in 3x15, he had to make a choice between Bae and the Dagger. But again, that choice did not involve him losing his power, just some self control until he could find a way to get the dagger back.

      His love for Bae is very real, and very deep. That they have shown. But his love for power is even deeper, and they have shown that as well. And every action that Gold has taken has been a step to have what he wants and still keep his power.

      And I'm not saying the Gold was always a selfish person, because he wasn't.  Just that Gold is a hard-core dark magic addict. and every action he has taken supports that idea.  In some ways, Gold has a Love-Hate relationship with his darkness, but the darkness, the additction, always wins.

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      Hook is pretty much a more aware version of a villain and he does good by that standard, but in those scenes he was showing how much faith he had in their love which was quickly to go down to zero. His hatred of the DO overpowered his love for Emma in the breiefest of moments and he asked for forgiveness later.Delightful, and I even growed a soft spot for Hook, but that doesn't relate to being the man he wants to be. One can stretch it a little and I can even give you that if you mention the parts during his first death in Birth. However, Broken Heart sort of craps on that idea and then brings it back through flashback "Eureka!"

      I have to disagree, because the Camelot arc proved one thing.... you CANNOT love the Dark One. If you do, it will lead to your doom.

      Merlin was transformed into a tree and eventually killed, because of his love for Nimue. Hook was transformed into a second Dark One, against his wishes, because of his love for Emma. Mary Margaret, David, Henry, Regina, and Robin were condemned to the Underworld, because of their feelings for Emma. Belle is consistantly manipulated and lied to, because of her love for Rumplestiltskin. It does not matter who the vessel is, because in the end the Dark One is the darkest of all souls. 

      I respect that, but I'll disagree. (Perhaps we have to agree to disagree)

      You can love a Dark One. Nimue was never the DO tuntil she made the bad choice and everything ended there.But anyhow, the Dark One is just the person. Belle isn't lied too because Rumple's the DO, because he lied to her when he wasn't the DO. Being the DO only gives you addictive dark magic, immortality, and at the very least heightened bad habits.

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    • Farerb wrote:

      What are you talking about?!? Gold sacrificed his life for Bae, Belle and the rest of Storybrooke in a situation that wasn't his fault. That was heroism and a selfless act. In 315 he had to make the choice between Bae and his dagger and he chose Bae. They just want all of us to forget about those and pretend that Gold was always a selfish man when he wasn't.

      Well, Emma did not do that. Had she been selfless, she would have absorbed the Darkness, the moment she reforged Excalibur. Instead, she chose to accelerate Zelena's pregnancy, in order to murder her. Everything she did was just a recipe for disaster, because she was justifying her actions. Which probably explains, why Excalibur would not have deemed her worthy. 

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      I have my problems with Hook. I have my problems with the show's sense of morality, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out and shouldn't take long to figure out that he shouldn't be trying to kill off his love's family.

      Sorry, but it did not take long at all. Dark Hook's "rampage" was less than 24 hours. Whereas, the Dark Swan was "terrorizing" Storybrooke for over 3 weeks. 

      Emma was the only one, who hurt the people she loved ones, this season. She broke her son's heart, by manipulating him. She pushed her parents away. She stole Merida's heart, and tried to kill Belle and Gold. She even tried to get revenge on Regina and Robin, when the Fury showed up. She transformed Hook, into a second Dark One against his wishes, and lied to cover it up. Above all.... Emma was the one who did not want, to rid herself of the Darkness. 

      I'm going to assume you read what I said as I did say that I can give Hook a pass since it did seem like it was just one day.

      My battle isn't a Emma vs Hook or Rumple versus Hook, but that it didn't have time to develop and Hook generally comes out looking worse (in a general overview).

      Emma did 90 % of those things because of Hook. Not necessarily Hook's fault, but her selfish love of Hook. I'm certian we agree, just putting it different ways. However, I made a thread on that.

      Anyhow it was just Hook's quick change I had an issue with.

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