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  • Thoughts discussion on this episode post here!

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    • It was very very good, and had a great ending.... then came a momentum killer.

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      It was very very good, and had a great ending.... then came a momentum killer.

      That's another thread. But it definitely extends the cliffhanger a whole lot.

      Oprah must be having a field day. You get Darkness, you get Darkness, you all get Darkness. So, Hook is the start of a new branch of Dark Ones.

      What happened to Merlin because I saw Darkness coming from him and moving and that makes no sense. My full review and points will be after 509.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      Oprah must be having a field day. You get Darkness, you get Darkness, you all get Darkness. So, Hook is the start of a new branch of Dark Ones.

      What happened to Merlin because I saw Darkness coming from him and moving and that makes no sense. My full review and points will be after 509.

      That is a good way to put it.... Darkness all around!

      Emma royally screwed up this time, and just made the problem even worse. Now, we know who voicemail!Merlin was referring to

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      Oprah must be having a field day. You get Darkness, you get Darkness, you all get Darkness. So, Hook is the start of a new branch of Dark Ones.

      What happened to Merlin because I saw Darkness coming from him and moving and that makes no sense. My full review and points will be after 509.

      That is a good way to put it.... Darkness all around!

      Emma royally screwed up this time, and just made the problem even worse. Now, we know who voicemail!Merlin was referring to

      Still don't know what happened to Merlin. We don't know why he "inked" (lol) Or the curse.

      Plus, since Hook was cursed the Darkness voice must have been surpressed, but he surely would have done magic with all the anger he's been spitting out. Or at least not be knocked out by Emma so easily but then again Emma's a more powerful DO.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      Plus, since Hook was cursed the Darkness voice must have been surpressed, but he surely would have done magic with all the anger he's been spitting out. Or at least not be knocked out by Emma so easily but then again Emma's a more powerful DO.

      Hook had no idea what Emma turned him into. Up until now, he still thought he was mortal. Besides, Hook became a Dark One, 3 weeks before everyone returned to Camelot. Something bad must have happened in those missing weeks. For all we know, Hook went on some type of rampage.... the memory loss was the only way to stop him.

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    • Full review as far as I can make of it:

      Pros

      - Hook is a new Branch of the DO tree, and it used HG magic in sword form

      - Zelena's cries in pregnancy were golden! Hilarious!

      - Emma was going to make Zelena a vessel and kill her, Harsh!

      - Binding spell by Emma

      - Dr. Whale should stop delivering babies

      Cons

      - What does the Darkness think about Emma playing a quick one on them

      - Hook's Dark twist outta nowhere

      It was meh, but I guess it's a solid episode

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    • wow.  everything threw me and it was a really exciting episode.

      when the heroes concluded that Emma would need Zelena's baby, I thought, "again with the baby thing?!", thinking back to Zelena's quest to time travel.  I'm glad it didn't pan out that way.

      Zelena - hysterical, even in labor.  love how they write for her and how Rebecca Mader pulls it off.  loved the return of the wickedly chic WWoW ensembles.  she is so well dressed.

      i really liked seeing Hook get pi$$ed at Emma.  after Zelena stabbed Hook, i thought we were going to find out that they were all dead or something.  that they were in the underworld or a "hell on earth" type of place.  but seeing the 2nd DO story unravel and seeing Hook wanting Emma to pay...i really liked it.  and I totally ship CaptainSwan.  


      ...Dr Whale.  what a putz.  love it, though.  and the hair comments between he and Regina = lol.


      ...Now what will Zelena and Robin name their daughter?  I'm guessing not Marion.

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    • I'm talking to all of you from sort of afterlife

      Because Captain Swan finally killed me in this episode

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    • Everything about Zelena SLAYED me. Hook being a Dark One is something I started suspecting after a 5A rewatch yesterday. I didn't know how it would happen, but I suspected it at the end of Bear And The Bow. So glad I was right. He's probably the one who kills Merlin, since Merlin said "Dark One", not "Emma".

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
       He's probably the one who kills Merlin, since Merlin said "Dark One", not "Emma".

      Intrigue!  I like it.

      And after he was naming off his victims, ring by ring, in tonight's episode, they were probably trying to remind us that he was once really villainous and would be easily persuaded by darkness.  He wouldn't be as strong as someone like Emma or Merlin.  

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    • DarlingDavies wrote:
      ...Now what will Zelena and Robin name their daughter?  I'm guessing not Marion.

      I've heard her name is Cora Jr

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    • 8Rob wrote:
      DarlingDavies wrote:
      ...Now what will Zelena and Robin name their daughter?  I'm guessing not Marion.
      I've heard her name is Cora Jr

      LOL.

      When they zoomed in on her little baby face, I half expected her nose to twitch, like Bewitched.  Or for her to wink at Robin.  Something quirky.

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    • Amazing ep! I Too bad it was followed by...eh, see it in the next thread.

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    • I honestly thought Birth was a masterpiece. Kept me at the edge of my seat the whole time!!

      Loved the twists, not looking forward to the next 2 weeks of waiting...

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    • So Merlin is a former dark one too?I dont get it.

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    • Joshleung wrote:
      So Merlin is a former dark one too?I dont get it.

      No, it made no sense. Merlin supposedly had some Darkness but never acted upon it and I assume that Emma took his darkness and the magic and immortality to perfom the Dark One's curse on Hook allowing him to become the Dark One.

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    • That was confusing... Is Merlin dead? and how is Hook a dark one if Merlin was a light magic user, not a dark one? Shouldn't Hook simply be a magic user now, not the dark one? Unless its because since he's already killed, he automatically becomes dark? Or perhaps he isn't a Dark One, just a magic user, since he hadn't used dark magic at all? 

      And Emma's plan is to destroy the darkness by transferring it to Zelena, then killing her with Excalibur. But the thing is, how would that work? wouldn't the darkness just transfer back to herself, since whoever kills the dark one with excalibur becomes the dark one?

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    • honestly, I don't like this whole Hook twist.

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    • Hook is definately a Dark One, because Emma used the darkest magic to tether him to Excalibur. Besides, we saw him raise from the Vault.

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    • Hydrasaur wrote:
      That was confusing... Is Merlin dead? and how is Hook a dark one if Merlin was a light magic user, not a dark one? Shouldn't Hook simply be a magic user now, not the dark one? Unless its because since he's already killed, he automatically becomes dark? Or perhaps he isn't a Dark One, just a magic user, since he hadn't used dark magic at all? 

      And Emma's plan is to destroy the darkness by transferring it to Zelena, then killing her with Excalibur. But the thing is, how would that work? wouldn't the darkness just transfer back to herself, since whoever kills the dark one with excalibur becomes the dark one?

      I came up with a theory. Emma used her corrupted HG (Holy Grail) magic (Darkness + HG magic and immortality) to remove Merlin's HG magic. So, he should be alive and Emma's corrupted magic corrupted the HG magic she put into Hook turning him into a Dark One. Basically, Emma's magic contaminated the magic stuff that was put into Hook.

      Emma would put all the Darkness and HG magic into Zelena and then use Excalibur to kill Zelena and the magic inside her.

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    • Hydrasaur wrote:
      That was confusing... Is Merlin dead? and how is Hook a dark one if Merlin was a light magic user, not a dark one? Shouldn't Hook simply be a magic user now, not the dark one? Unless its because since he's already killed, he automatically becomes dark? Or perhaps he isn't a Dark One, just a magic user, since he hadn't used dark magic at all? 

      And Emma's plan is to destroy the darkness by transferring it to Zelena, then killing her with Excalibur. But the thing is, how would that work? wouldn't the darkness just transfer back to herself, since whoever kills the dark one with excalibur becomes the dark one?

      No idea if Hook is the Dark One, Light One, immortal or... whatever.

      But as for Emma's plan, she wanted to get rid of Hook's Darkness, put it in Zelena, kill Zelena and then presumably the Darkness would either revert back to Emma or disappear altogether.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      I came up with a theory. Emma used her corrupted HG (Holy Grail) magic (Darkness + HG magic and immortality) to remove Merlin's HG magic. So, he should be alive and Emma's corrupted magic corrupted the HG magic she put into Hook turning him into a Dark One. Basically, Emma's magic contaminated the magic stuff that was put into Hook.

      I definately agree, with this theory. Another note.... Merlin's magic might have also been contaminated, when Arthur forced him to kill Mary Margaret. 

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      I came up with a theory. Emma used her corrupted HG (Holy Grail) magic (Darkness + HG magic and immortality) to remove Merlin's HG magic. So, he should be alive and Emma's corrupted magic corrupted the HG magic she put into Hook turning him into a Dark One. Basically, Emma's magic contaminated the magic stuff that was put into Hook.

      I definately agree, with this theory. Another note.... Merlin's magic might have also been contaminated, when Arthur forced him to kill Mary Margaret. 

      Could have but I don't think it was...or he'd be a Dark One.

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    • what i dont get about the episode is that Merlin became the "light" one. Since like, the DO, he was a magical person who drank from the HG and was tied to a sword.



      So shouldn't Killian become the light one too ? and not the second dark one ? 

      Could Merin have become a dark one himself ?

      Also, didnt Killian sleep ever since he came back ???? Shouldnt that be a red flag ? He didnt accidently use magic ? Thats a long strech for me.

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    • Tvfanatic wrote:
      what i dont get about the episode is that Merlin became the "light" one. Since like, the DO, he was a magical person who drank from the HG and was tied to a sword.

      Could Merin have become a dark one himself ?

      So shouldn't Killian become the light one too ? and not the second dark one ? 

      Also, didnt Killian sleep ever since he came back ???? Shouldnt that be a red flag ? He didnt accidently use magic ? Thats a long strech for me.

      Emma's magic corrupted Merlin's magic when Emma was tranferring it. (My theory) Merlin could have become a Dark One if he gave into Darkness, but he didn't. The DO and Merlin's powers originate from the same place.

      Hook shouldn't be able to sleep, but it's just a plot hole. Maybe he just drunk so much rum he past out! It is quite a long stretch.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      Tvfanatic wrote:
      what i dont get about the episode is that Merlin became the "light" one. Since like, the DO, he was a magical person who drank from the HG and was tied to a sword.

      Could Merin have become a dark one himself ?

      So shouldn't Killian become the light one too ? and not the second dark one ? 

      Also, didnt Killian sleep ever since he came back ???? Shouldnt that be a red flag ? He didnt accidently use magic ? Thats a long strech for me.

      Emma's magic corrupted Merlin's magic when Emma was tranferring it. (My theory) Merlin could have become a Dark One if he gave into Darkness, but he didn't. The DO and Merlin's powers originate from the same place.

      Hook shouldn't be able to sleep, but it's just a plot hole. Maybe he just drunk so much rum he past out! It is quite a long stretch.

      That would make sens. And i like your theory about the rum lol xD

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    • Hook being a second dark one was an interesting twist but it doesn't make complete sense. Curse or no curse, memories or no memories, there should've been SOMETHING that indicated he was a Dark One. Also did anyone notice how Zelena didn't turn green after her cuff was removed? Um, what?

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    • Trainer Green wrote:
      Hook being a second dark one was an interesting twist but it doesn't make complete sense. Curse or no curse, memories or no memories, there should've been SOMETHING that indicated he was a Dark One. Also did anyone notice how Zelena didn't turn green after her cuff was removed? Um, what?

      Zelena is in her "cursed" body, so she doesn't turn green. (Example: MM has short hair, but iuf you undo the curse she'll have long hair again) So, Zelena or anyone will not change to their previous forms unless they reverse the curse.....or actively try to change it.

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    • Since when has Zelena ever been green in Storybrooke?  Rumpelstiltskin was never "gold" in Storybrooke . . . even after the first curse was broken.  Actually, Emma's bleached look in Storybrooke is the only thing that goes against what was previously shown.

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    • CTrent29 wrote:
      Since when has Zelena ever been green in Storybrooke?  Rumpelstiltskin was never "gold" in Storybrooke . . . even after the first curse was broken.  Actually, Emma's bleached look in Storybrooke is the only thing that goes against what was previously shown.

      That could be because she was never cursed to begin with and thus has no cursed form. Or maybe Ruby didn't the very last bean of all and Emma used the bean on everyone in Camelot. Would explain why everyone's return was a glow like a portal and not smoke like the Curse.

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    • Emma doesn't want to give up the darkness because she is affraid of commitment? seriosly?

      Emma couldn't let Hook die but it was fine when it was Neal.

      Emma can make Hook a dark one by holding a sword over him and think really hard. Why couldn't Rumple do it to Neal. Don't get your hopes up for that to be explained...so much for the show's mythology.

      Hook never showed any signs of having darkness in him. where are the voices? where is the magic?

      This season stopped making any sense.

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    • Ruby had a magic bean. She wanted to use it to go back home. But why didn't she use it to send them all back home? How is it that they only had 1 bean, too? seriously, They all could've returned to the enchanted forest, why would they decide to stay in storybrooke? and why didn't mary margeret suggest that? seriously, she is the worst. She is the Brita of OUAT.

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    • Have any of them indicated that they want to return?  Granny is always making snarky insults about the Enchanted Forest.   I don't know about the others.



      Emma doesn't want to give up the darkness because she is affraid of commitment? seriosly  Emma couldn't let Hook die but it was fine when it was Neal.  


      That's because she is more in love with Hook than she ever had been with Neal.

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    • Farerb wrote:
      Emma doesn't want to give up the darkness because she is affraid of commitment? seriosly?

      Emma couldn't let Hook die but it was fine when it was Neal.

      Emma can make Hook a dark one by holding a sword over him and think really hard. Why couldn't Rumple do it to Neal. Don't get your hopes up for that to be explained...so much for the show's mythology.

      Hook never showed any signs of having darkness in him. where are the voices? where is the magic?

      This season stopped making any sense.

      It was said that the only reason the sword worked to save Hook was because Merlin was attached to it.  It transferred Merlin's powers to Hook giving Hook immortality.  The only voice that could be in Hooks head would be Merlin as Hook is the second one with powers from that branch.  It is also possible that because Merlin never gave into the darkness that he doesn't return as a voice in Hook's head.  Just because the show does spell out the mythology for you doesn't mean it ain't there.

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    • This episode was great. Not Nimue amazing but great.

      • So Hook is a new DO so now there is two (what a twist!). I'm not sure if Hook and Emma will stay DOs or it will be permanent.
      • Zelena slays as always. "Shut up! I was a fake midwife! I know the drill" was one of the best lines she has said. Wonder what she is going to name her daughter (Also it kind of screwed up my Liir theory).
      • Oh hi Dr Whale. He looked like he just walked off the set of iZombie.
      • Is Gwen just a human prop now?

      So all in all, it was a great episode. now I have to wait 2 weeks. fun.

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    • I wanted Zelena to have a son too. Oh well.

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    • there is a theory going around on twitter it says. Hook is palying Zelena and everyone else because he that's what his plan is. He wants to get rid the darkness out of Emma and put it into himself then sacrifce himself to kill the darkness for good. That's how the underworld arc would come in.

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    • Frulna wrote:
      Farerb wrote:
      Emma doesn't want to give up the darkness because she is affraid of commitment? seriosly?

      Emma couldn't let Hook die but it was fine when it was Neal.

      Emma can make Hook a dark one by holding a sword over him and think really hard. Why couldn't Rumple do it to Neal. Don't get your hopes up for that to be explained...so much for the show's mythology.

      Hook never showed any signs of having darkness in him. where are the voices? where is the magic?

      This season stopped making any sense.

      It was said that the only reason the sword worked to save Hook was because Merlin was attached to it.  It transferred Merlin's powers to Hook giving Hook immortality.  The only voice that could be in Hooks head would be Merlin as Hook is the second one with powers from that branch.  It is also possible that because Merlin never gave into the darkness that he doesn't return as a voice in Hook's head.  Just because the show does spell out the mythology for you doesn't mean it ain't there.

      You clearly missed the part when they said Hook is another Dark One. There is a scene with him coming out of the vault. Go watch the episode again.

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    • I really had to laugh when I saw Hook as the Dark One, it really looked silly and doesn't fit him imo. But I think we all can agree that Zelena was the star of this episode, she was so amazing! And I also loved the scene with Dr. Whale.

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    • Farerb wrote:
      Emma doesn't want to give up the darkness because she is affraid of commitment? seriosly?

      Emma couldn't let Hook die but it was fine when it was Neal.

      Emma can make Hook a dark one by holding a sword over him and think really hard. Why couldn't Rumple do it to Neal. Don't get your hopes up for that to be explained...so much for the show's mythology.

      Hook never showed any signs of having darkness in him. where are the voices? where is the magic?

      This season stopped making any sense.

      Emma obviously is more in love with Hook than she was with Neal. Her love for Neal ran on old memories from when she actually was in love. And how many times has Hook said that he wouldn't die on her because he is a survivor?

      Rumple didn't really have access to Excalibur when Neal died... he never expected Neal to die and getting Excalibur would've taken a lot of time. Hook just happened to die at the right moment.

      Hook also started a new tree of Dark Ones, so there aren't any past Dark Ones that live as voices in his head, he is the first second Dark One. However it does not explain why he slept and didn't accidentally use magic. Unless he says "that's why I haven't been able to sleep lately, I thought something was bothering me" or something, which still sounds cheap

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    • How does Emma blame everyone else for "failing her" over this entire situation in this episode? Emma was the one who was too scared of Hook's love to reject the darkness <eye roll>, then Hook got himself stabbed, and Emma was the one who chose to make Hook Dark Two. They then screwed more stuff up forcing Emma to jump back to Storybrooke and wipe memories. So this was all CS's fault. Why was Emma getting all pissy at Regina earlier this season? I think this is further indication that they changed paths midseason to be more about CS. Regina being the Savior storyline was scraped. Emma's no eyebrow dark one look was scrapped and you can tell that so many scenes JMO produced have been cut due to the rewrites. (Personally, Hook and Emma not being in Dark One makeup is too not piss fans off making their pretties uglified).

      We were suppose to see Snow/Charming/Henry fighting to save Emma but that has totally went to the wayside. We were suppose to see Emma's inner struggles about being an orphan and giving up her son and only seeing her son after 10 years. Oh no. This Emma is long and gone. Though Emma never expressed romantic interest being at the forefront in her mind, now she is all about pirate love. Long lost parents and son are no longer relevant.

      Oh yeah, nobody is mentioning the emotional blackmail by suicide as being romantic????

      -Pro Things actually happened in this episode.

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    • I just re-watched it.

      Whoever wrote this episode, own me a couple of sessions of therapy because they psychologically raped me. 

      Now I know why the next episode is tittled Broken Heart. This isn't about Emma or Hook's heart. It's about the audience heart.

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    • Farerb wrote:
      Frulna wrote:
      Farerb wrote:
      Emma doesn't want to give up the darkness because she is affraid of commitment? seriosly?

      Emma couldn't let Hook die but it was fine when it was Neal.

      Emma can make Hook a dark one by holding a sword over him and think really hard. Why couldn't Rumple do it to Neal. Don't get your hopes up for that to be explained...so much for the show's mythology.

      Hook never showed any signs of having darkness in him. where are the voices? where is the magic?

      This season stopped making any sense.

      It was said that the only reason the sword worked to save Hook was because Merlin was attached to it.  It transferred Merlin's powers to Hook giving Hook immortality.  The only voice that could be in Hooks head would be Merlin as Hook is the second one with powers from that branch.  It is also possible that because Merlin never gave into the darkness that he doesn't return as a voice in Hook's head.  Just because the show does spell out the mythology for you doesn't mean it ain't there.
      You clearly missed the part when they said Hook is another Dark One. There is a scene with him coming out of the vault. Go watch the episode again.

      He is a Dark One yes but from Merlin's branch of power not Nimue.  We clearly saw the powers being taken from Merlin and given to Hook.

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    • Ray Donovan wrote:
      How does Emma blame everyone else for "failing her" over this entire situation in this episode? Emma was the one who was too scared of Hook's love to reject the darkness <eye roll>, then Hook got himself stabbed, and Emma was the one who chose to make Hook Dark Two. They then screwed more stuff up forcing Emma to jump back to Storybrooke and wipe memories. So this was all CS's fault. Why was Emma getting all pissy at Regina earlier this season? I think this is further indication that they changed paths midseason to be more about CS. Regina being the Savior storyline was scraped. 

      Jennifer Morrison knew from the start, what Emma had done in Camelot. She hinted towards it at Comic Con. You also seem to forget that the Dark One lies, the Dark One tricks. Emma lied to everyone, because she was the one who failed them. She thought, she could keep this secret from everyone.... clearly, she did not learn from Gold's mistakes.

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    • AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Honestly, I haven't cursed this much in my entire life!

      This season has been really good but that was an all new level. We see a lot of the twists coming our way, but that was amazing. I've never had so many emotions.

      I shall now go back to mourning the ship that'll be lost at sea for 11ish episodes...

      I had a feeling it would be a girl... just putting it out there.

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    • This was a pretty decent episode with all the intrigue and plot twists involved especially given some of the lines in season 4 with Hook stabbing Rumplestilkein. We'll have to wait and see how much of Merlin's power and/or Nimue's was transferred (mentioning Nimue given his arising from the same Vault, which tie to the Dark One NEEDS to be Explained). Finally as bad as the Timeline needs more explaining regarding the Darkness. This and "Nimue" would have worked better together as a two hour rather than the "Bear King"

      Also Loved the Dr. Whale reasoning for Regina about David Anders izombie bleached hair

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    • Okay, I've got to admit, I did not see that twist coming. I thought Hook was acting a little off, but I put that down to him freakin' about Emma being the Dark One. Though one would think that he would notice the fact that hasn't needed to sleep for weeks. 

      I think the scene with Dr Whale was kinda naff. Or what they call "Narm" on TvTropes. The writers were being just a bit too cute about the fact we haven't seen him in a while. 

      Aside from that minor quibble, smashing episode all round. 

      Some questions: 

      1) Why isn't Zelena green in Camelot? If it's because she's no longer envious of Regina, she sure doesn't act like it.

      2) What was the spell Emma was casting outside her house? We've seen immobilization spells before. They don't take THAT long. So what was Emma doing? 

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    • Johntoxable wrote:
      Okay, I've got to admit, I did not see that twist coming. I thought Hook was acting a little off, but I put that down to him freakin' about Emma being the Dark One. Though one would think that he would notice the fact that hasn't needed to sleep for weeks. 

      I think the scene with Dr Whale was kinda naff. Or what they call "Narm" on TvTropes. The writers were being just a bit too cute about the fact we haven't seen him in a while. 

      Aside from that minor quibble, smashing episode all round. 

      Some questions: 

      1) Why isn't Zelena green in Camelot? If it's because she's no longer envious of Regina, she sure doesn't act like it.

      2) What was the spell Emma was casting outside her house? We've seen immobilization spells before. They don't take THAT long. So what was Emma doing? 

      1) Zelena is in her cursed body. That's why Rumple looked normal in SB and in Neverland. (Example: Mary Margaret is Snow's cursed form and if the curse is reversed, Snow has long hair.)

      2) Noone knows yet.

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    • I personally loved them being so 4th wall-ish about Whale and his iZombie hair. Plus, he looks so much cuter with that haircolor, I love it.

      I hope Tink can swing by sometime this season and Regina can make a joke about her and Whale going to the same hairdresser.

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    • There's one thing I don't understand, why did Hook become the Dark One right away, he didn't do anything to abuse his power like Nimue did, also if Merlin is the opposite of the Dark One then shouldn't Hook have been too since he was tehtered to Merlin's half of Excalibur, if tethering someone to Excalibur makes them a Dark One then why didn't Merlin become a Dark One when Zelena tethered him to the Excalibur 

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    • This is a weird theory, someone came up with it after Merida was announced, do you think somehow Robin Hood's baby will get sent to the past (Zelena did make time travel possible) and then she is founded by King Fergus and Queen Elinor and their daughter is Merida (although Merida does have the same red hair as her father and her brothers, so I'm not sure if she could be adopted) 

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    • When I saw what happened I was speechless, I just couldn't believe what happened or of what Emma did. Seriously even though she saved Hook's life, she turned him into the thing he hates the most and now I don't know what will happen to them. This is sad episode for Captain Swan Fans everywhere :,(.

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    • Anubis16 wrote:
      This is a weird theory, someone came up with it after Merida was announced, do you think somehow Robin Hood's baby will get sent to the past (Zelena did make time travel possible) and then she is founded by King Fergus and Queen Elinor and their daughter is Merida (although Merida does have the same red hair as her father and her brothers, so I'm not sure if she could be adopted) 

      The writes said that is noit the case. Merida is not related to Ronbin or Zelena in any way.

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    • Episode was interesting. Answered questions we've had, while also setting up the Underworld arc somewhat. Whale, Ratched, and Zelena need their own spin off, lol. Also, knew the baby would be a girl. Hope they name her Ozma.

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    • About Hook's sleeping thing... You know how sometimes you just can't fall asleep and then you're awake? And you have no idea how it happens? Well that usually happens to me when I'm stressed. So maybe he just thought it was something like that

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    • Anubis16 wrote:
      This is a weird theory, someone came up with it after Merida was announced, do you think somehow Robin Hood's baby will get sent to the past (Zelena did make time travel possible) and then she is founded by King Fergus and Queen Elinor and their daughter is Merida (although Merida does have the same red hair as her father and her brothers, so I'm not sure if she could be adopted) 

      While Zelena has red hair, it's a far different shade than Merida's, whose shade matches Fergus and her brothers. Plus, Eddie and Adam have said that she doesn't have any connection to them. So no, Merida is not Merida Locksley-Greene.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Holy smokes the last minutes were incredible! 

      Hook as the Dark One?? Yikes and YES! He looks great with the cape. I can't wait to see him in a rampage. 

      And I loved Zelena teaming up with Hook. 

      Yay for Whale and I actually thought the speed birth no matter how stupid it sounds was carried out well enough. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • LIKES

      1- I was laughing from the moment Zelena was wheeled into the hospital to the moment she teleported out. Zelena was a shining star(as always)

      2- I really loved the Emma and hook scenes, especially the last one. Their relationship is starting to feel real to me.

      3- I liked that Regina was being practical in the situation. Instead of trying to be in the room and impose, she was outside. I also liked that we saw the first glimpse of care(from Regina) between the sisters. I hope this is the start of their reconciliation

      DISLIKES

      1- I don't get why Hook is mad at Emma. She saved his life, he should be thanking her. Also she didn't make him a dark one, HE made himself a dark one. He didn't have to turn evil, Merlin had that same darkness in him for a thousand years and never turned evil.

      2- why would they disregard all the lore they built this arc about the dark one just for one twist. They could have hinted a little. 

      3- How did Zelena go from wanting to be in oz raising her child to being the henchmen for everyone who's against the charmings and friends? I don't understand, did I miss something?

      4- Regina has been threatening Zelena's life for almost two seasons and now that someone is actually going to do it, she has a problem.

      Overall I think this was a good episode. It wasn't dreamcatcher, but it was definitely better than the crap that came on after it.

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    • HP7hghrOUaTekscrrF10rrmc wrote:
      About Hook's sleeping thing... You know how sometimes you just can't fall asleep and then you're awake? And you have no idea how it happens? Well that usually happens to me when I'm stressed. So maybe he just thought it was something like that

      I don't think the dark one even gets sleepy. There is no way to explain him not know something was different. It's a stretch for himto not noticed he hasn't slept or been tired in 4 or 5 days.

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    • Kingfan22 wrote:
      HP7hghrOUaTekscrrF10rrmc wrote:
      About Hook's sleeping thing... You know how sometimes you just can't fall asleep and then you're awake? And you have no idea how it happens? Well that usually happens to me when I'm stressed. So maybe he just thought it was something like that
      I don't think the dark one even gets sleepy. There is no way to explain him not know something was different. It's a stretch for himto not noticed he hasn't slept or been tired in 4 or 5 days.

      I meant that he goes to bed, doesn't realize the time passing, gets up.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Kingfan22 wrote:

      I don't get why Hook is mad at Emma. She saved his life, he should be thanking her. Also she didn't make him a dark one, HE made himself a dark one. He didn't have to turn evil, Merlin had that same darkness in him for a thousand years and never turned evil.

      It is more that Emma forced this burden onto Hook, when he just wanted to die in peace. Also, she wanted to kill another person to keep him alive. That would not save their future, as it is just Emma being selfish. Merlin warned her that if she does it, the only way to defeat the Darkness would be to pay a steep price. There are no shortcuts for something like this, which is what Emma was trying to do. She was just looking for an easy way out.

      It is similar, to what happened between Gold and Belle, last season. Emma thought she could keep the truth from Hook, just like Gold did with Belle. Both hide the truth out of love, but their lovers were left feeling betrayed. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Ray Donovan wrote:
      How does Emma blame everyone else for "failing her" over this entire situation in this episode? Emma was the one who was too scared of Hook's love to reject the darkness <eye roll>, then Hook got himself stabbed, and Emma was the one who chose to make Hook Dark Two. They then screwed more stuff up forcing Emma to jump back to Storybrooke and wipe memories. So this was all CS's fault. Why was Emma getting all pissy at Regina earlier this season? I think this is further indication that they changed paths midseason to be more about CS. Regina being the Savior storyline was scraped. Emma's no eyebrow dark one look was scrapped and you can tell that so many scenes JMO produced have been cut due to the rewrites. (Personally, Hook and Emma not being in Dark One makeup is too not piss fans off making their pretties uglified).

      We were suppose to see Snow/Charming/Henry fighting to save Emma but that has totally went to the wayside. We were suppose to see Emma's inner struggles about being an orphan and giving up her son and only seeing her son after 10 years. Oh no. This Emma is long and gone. Though Emma never expressed romantic interest being at the forefront in her mind, now she is all about pirate love. Long lost parents and son are no longer relevant.

      Oh yeah, nobody is mentioning the emotional blackmail by suicide as being romantic????

      -Pro Things actually happened in this episode.

      the sneak peek they gave us before the start of the season was Emma in a prison all glittery and dark. so what happened to that?

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    • This was such a convoluted episode. Just messy. Really, they could have done better than this for an episode that was supposed to reveal something important. No wonder I found the following episode more entertaining.

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    • EvaC wrote:

      the sneak peek they gave us before the start of the season was Emma in a prison all glittery and dark. so what happened to that?

      That was filmed during the Season 4 finale, and is not canon.

      The producers must have felt that the original concept did not photograph very well, and went for a subtler look. If you look closely, the Dark Swan wears an awful amount of highlighter over her face.... which gives the illusion of glitter.

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    • Kingfan22 wrote:
      LIKES

      1- I was laughing from the moment Zelena was wheeled into the hospital to the moment she teleported out. Zelena was a shining star(as always)

      2- I really loved the Emma and hook scenes, especially the last one. Their relationship is starting to feel real to me.

      3- I liked that Regina was being practical in the situation. Instead of trying to be in the room and impose, she was outside. I also liked that we saw the first glimpse of care(from Regina) between the sisters. I hope this is the start of their reconciliation

      DISLIKES

      1- I don't get why Hook is mad at Emma. She saved his life, he should be thanking her. Also she didn't make him a dark one, HE made himself a dark one. He didn't have to turn evil, Merlin had that same darkness in him for a thousand years and never turned evil.

      2- why would they disregard all the lore they built this arc about the dark one just for one twist. They could have hinted a little. 

      3- How did Zelena go from wanting to be in oz raising her child to being the henchmen for everyone who's against the charmings and friends? I don't understand, did I miss something?

      4- Regina has been threatening Zelena's life for almost two seasons and now that someone is actually going to do it, she has a problem.

      Overall I think this was a good episode. It wasn't dreamcatcher, but it was definitely better than the crap that came on after it.

      1. Like someone said in this thread: "Seriously even though she saved Hook's life, she turned him into the thing he hates the most"

      3. She didn't see herself as a henchman., but as a partner. But she's not supid. She know Arthur will kill her when Excalibur is whole.

      4. She said, she is the only one allowed to hurt Zelena and she doesn't want Emma to kill her because she will lose herself if she kills.


      I laughed so hard when Emma threw Whale into the wall, after he had said that it was the last thing Zelena did to him. I liked both episodes, but Birth was better than The Bear King.

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    • Mesmermann wrote:

      1. Like someone said in this thread: "Seriously even though she saved Hook's life, she turned him into the thing he hates the most"

      Not only that, but Emma's "altruistic" plan was to murder Zelena. How would that have saved either of them? If Emma was truly selfless in trying to save Hook, she would have run herself through with Excalibur. Which is something I suspect, Hook will end up doing for her.... once he calms down.

      Do I understand why Emma turned Hook into a Dark One.... yes, she was desperate. Do I agree with the decision.... hell, no.

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Mesmermann wrote:

      1. Like someone said in this thread: "Seriously even though she saved Hook's life, she turned him into the thing he hates the most"

      Not only that, but Emma's "altruistic" plan was to murder Zelena. How would that have saved either of them? If Emma was truly selfless in trying to save Hook, she would have run herself through with Excalibur. Which is something I suspect, Hook will end up doing for her.... once he calms down.

      Do I understand why Emma turned Hook into a Dark One.... yes, she was desperate. Do I agree with the decision.... hell, no.

      I think Gold will eventually take Hook's darkness and become the Dark One again. Seeing as they are going to battle, I think it will go like that... or Hook is the reason why the Underworld is visited.

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    • See... I don't know why everyone in the show and in real life is mad about Hook being another Dark One. Yeah, Emma turned him into the thing he hates most, but she did it because she loved him and didn't want him to die.

      I'd do the same thing for my boyfriend. Without hesitation.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      See... I don't know why everyone in the show and in real life is mad about Hook being another Dark One. Yeah, Emma turned him into the thing he hates most, but she did it because she loved him and didn't want him to die.

      I'd do the same thing for my boyfriend. Without hesitation.

      So, you would ignore your boyfriend and your family and friends warning you to not do it. You would turn your boyfriend into the thing he hates most just so you could keep him. If he wants you to let him die, but instead you give him pretty much a severe terminal illness instead, you'd be happy?

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    • I don't know how I feel about this episode, it was kinda overhyped with "we've giving answers!", and Emma dragged it "I can't tell you, it's a secret, we've got to wait until the ep is almost over". It wasn't a bad plan to kill Zelena though. Most of the magical stuff... I still have to process it, I didn't understand most of it. Why was Merlin tehered to the sword and was not a dark one? How did Hook not realise he was a DO? Why did the transformation into DO save him from his mortal wound? Why is Merlin so useless? It's like "Across the Sea" from Lost, answers only give you more questions.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      See... I don't know why everyone in the show and in real life is mad about Hook being another Dark One. Yeah, Emma turned him into the thing he hates most, but she did it because she loved him and didn't want him to die.

      I'd do the same thing for my boyfriend. Without hesitation.

      So, you would ignore your boyfriend and your family and friends warning you to not do it. You would turn your boyfriend into the thing he hates most just so you could keep him. If he wants you to let him die, but instead you give him pretty much a severe terminal illness instead, you'd be happy?

      Immortality? Ultimate power? An eternal life with me? Yeah, I'd be pretty happy about that. And so would he, 'cause he's not Hook and I'm not Emma.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      See... I don't know why everyone in the show and in real life is mad about Hook being another Dark One. Yeah, Emma turned him into the thing he hates most, but she did it because she loved him and didn't want him to die.

      I'd do the same thing for my boyfriend. Without hesitation.

      So, you would ignore your boyfriend and your family and friends warning you to not do it. You would turn your boyfriend into the thing he hates most just so you could keep him. If he wants you to let him die, but instead you give him pretty much a severe terminal illness instead, you'd be happy?
      Immortality? Ultimate power? An eternal life with me? Yeah, I'd be pretty happy about that. And so would he, 'cause he's not Hook and I'm not Emma.

      I'm trying to make it relative. If he was shot and then you had the choice to let him go, which everyone tells you, or you could save his life but give him a serious terminal illness. That's what it is like to Hook. Either lose him to death or lose him to Darkness.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      See... I don't know why everyone in the show and in real life is mad about Hook being another Dark One. Yeah, Emma turned him into the thing he hates most, but she did it because she loved him and didn't want him to die.

      I'd do the same thing for my boyfriend. Without hesitation.

      Hook begged Emma, not to turn him into a second Dark One. His dying wish was for her to destroy the Darkness. Hook was at peace, and hopeful that Emma would be able to move on.

      Emma might have done this out of love, but it was selfish and desperate. We all know, that Hook would never have done this to her. There is a reason one of the first things he said, after he snapped, was "so much for our future, Swan". She created a monster who hates what he is.... and that makes him very dangerous. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      See... I don't know why everyone in the show and in real life is mad about Hook being another Dark One. Yeah, Emma turned him into the thing he hates most, but she did it because she loved him and didn't want him to die.

      I'd do the same thing for my boyfriend. Without hesitation.

      Hook begged Emma, not to turn him into a second Dark One. His dying wish was for her to destroy the Darkness. Hook was at peace, and hopeful that Emma would be able to move on.

      Emma might have done this out of love, but it was selfish and desperate. We all know, that Hook would never have done this to her. There is a reason one of the first things he said, after he snapped, was "so much for our future, Swan". She created a monster who hates what he is.... and that makes him very dangerous. 

      You are certainly right about that. Although Emma may have saved Hook's life, she turned him into the thing he hates the most and now everything is wrong. Emma seriously had no right for what she did and now she's turned the man she loves completely against her. I don't even know what will even happen, who knows if Hook and Emma will be alright or even if their love can survive this. I don't even know if Hook can forgive her for what she has turned him into. Let's hope everything will be alright in the end.

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    • Sbrady538 wrote:

      I don't even know if Hook can forgive her for what she has turned him into.

      Hook certainly has every right to never forgive Emma.

      Eddy and Adam were not kidding when they teased, that Emma would do something completely unforgivable. Turning the man she loves into the thing he hates most, is far worse than murdering anyone.

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    • Let's see:

      Snow is getting choked out and almost dying, she's fine, no check up on her.

      Hook gets a scratch and Emma's all over him making sure he's okay.

      I know some might be pro-ships and CS, but come on, it's like emma and Snow don't even have a relationship anymore.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      I know some might be pro-ships and CS, but come on, it's like emma and Snow don't even have a relationship anymore.

      That is a bit harsh.... Emma managed to get Merlin to fight the Darkness, which is what saved Mary Margaret's life.

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      I know some might be pro-ships and CS, but come on, it's like emma and Snow don't even have a relationship anymore.

      That is a bit harsh.... Emma managed to get Merlin to fight the Darkness, which is what saved Mary Margaret's life.

      And then never showed any concern. I know, does it seem like I'm implying that Hook/Emma hurts Emma/ Parents? Well, I say yes, it is. We've got all this build up and Regina and Hook are hogging all the time with Emma. Let her parents talk to her. If you wonder why they don't really understadn her, it's because they literally aren't allowed to talk to each other onscreen.

      I do remeber when they were planning to do the orphan scene of 302 with Hook instead of Snow and then changed their mind. And I can tell why Hook even crossed their mind. If it wasn't to that good judgement call on that episode Snow and Emma's relationship would have been in the gutter....at this point anyway.

      The show has grown but it move far from the primary relationships and pretty much puts them on the side. Henry and Emma was one but now it's mostly Hook or Regina, but we get one or two scenes a half-season where they get to bond (no real development since I guess the writers don't feel like it). Snow and Emma was a big one from the first two seasons and they slowly pushed Snow out of the way and inserted Hook and Regina.

      In an episode about Emma going dark, while her reasons are sound, her parents should play a bigger role. I think Zelena had a bigger role in Emma's development of this arc than her parents. And that's terrible.

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    • Wouldn't taking the darkness out of Hook and puttting it into Zelena undo what making him a DO was done to accomplishin the first place: preserving his life? Won't he die if he's no longer a DO?

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    • TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:
      Wouldn't taking the darkness out of Hook and puttting it into Zelena undo what making him a DO was done to accomplishin the first place: preserving his life? Won't he die if he's no longer a DO?

      Probably not. It depends. Emma's theory is that the tethering healed him of all wounds and they can get rid of the darkness-riddled HG magic. However, Emma might be wrong because Rumple had a limp but once he lost all magic he was once again limping, so he'll probably die. But don't tell Emma that....or the writers.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:
      Wouldn't taking the darkness out of Hook and puttting it into Zelena undo what making him a DO was done to accomplishin the first place: preserving his life? Won't he die if he's no longer a DO?
      Probably not. It depends. Emma's theory is that the tethering healed him of all wounds and they can get rid of the darkness-riddled HG magic. However, Emma might be wrong because Rumple had a limp but once he lost all magic he was once again limping, so he'll probably die. But don't tell Emma that....or the writers.

      That could be how they end up going to the underworld. Emma kills Hook by untethering him and absorbing the darkness herself so there's only one DO again, they retrieve Hook from hades, and then Emma rids herself of the darkness. By the by, is the promethean flame gone now?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:
      Wouldn't taking the darkness out of Hook and puttting it into Zelena undo what making him a DO was done to accomplishin the first place: preserving his life? Won't he die if he's no longer a DO?
      Probably not. It depends. Emma's theory is that the tethering healed him of all wounds and they can get rid of the darkness-riddled HG magic. However, Emma might be wrong because Rumple had a limp but once he lost all magic he was once again limping, so he'll probably die. But don't tell Emma that....or the writers.
      That could be how they end up going to the underworld. Emma kills Hook so there's only one DO again, they retrieve Hook from hades, and then Emma rids herself of the darkness. By the by, is the promethean flame gone now?

      Well, that's all just speculation. I doubt Emma would kill Hook, but Emma seems alright since she was pulling a facade, so she might be able to move on, but Hook might somehow take the power from Emma or simply just kill himself.

      The flame is still around. Emma only used a speck of it to forge Excalibur.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:
      Wouldn't taking the darkness out of Hook and puttting it into Zelena undo what making him a DO was done to accomplishin the first place: preserving his life? Won't he die if he's no longer a DO?
      Probably not. It depends. Emma's theory is that the tethering healed him of all wounds and they can get rid of the darkness-riddled HG magic. However, Emma might be wrong because Rumple had a limp but once he lost all magic he was once again limping, so he'll probably die. But don't tell Emma that....or the writers.
      That could be how they end up going to the underworld. Emma kills Hook so there's only one DO again, they retrieve Hook from hades, and then Emma rids herself of the darkness. By the by, is the promethean flame gone now?
      Well, that's all just speculation. I doubt Emma would kill Hook, but Emma seems alright since she was pulling a facade, so she might be able to move on, but Hook might somehow take the power from Emma or simply just kill himself.

      The flame is still around. Emma only used a speck of it to forge Excalibur.

      I was editing my comment to clarify it when you answered. I think she might realize that he'll either have to stay the dark one forever, or die. So she untethers him and then just goes to hades to get him back.

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    • TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:
      Wouldn't taking the darkness out of Hook and puttting it into Zelena undo what making him a DO was done to accomplishin the first place: preserving his life? Won't he die if he's no longer a DO?
      Probably not. It depends. Emma's theory is that the tethering healed him of all wounds and they can get rid of the darkness-riddled HG magic. However, Emma might be wrong because Rumple had a limp but once he lost all magic he was once again limping, so he'll probably die. But don't tell Emma that....or the writers.
      That could be how they end up going to the underworld. Emma kills Hook so there's only one DO again, they retrieve Hook from hades, and then Emma rids herself of the darkness. By the by, is the promethean flame gone now?
      Well, that's all just speculation. I doubt Emma would kill Hook, but Emma seems alright since she was pulling a facade, so she might be able to move on, but Hook might somehow take the power from Emma or simply just kill himself.

      The flame is still around. Emma only used a speck of it to forge Excalibur.

      I was editing my comment to clarify it when you answered. I think she might realize that he'll either have to stay the dark one forever, or die. So she untethers him and then just goes to hades to get him back.

      Nevertheless that isn't in this episode and it's speculative.

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    • Ok, Zelena killed it. as only Bex can.

      Loved the twists and callbacks in the Episode. First, the whole hospital scene with Zelena giving Birth, complete with Robin drawing his sword while holding the Baby (making the birth an official Once birth to match Emma and Neal) to Emma slamming Whale against the Wall. That was so Kansas.

      All the "Near Misses" that Killian had this episode. He frees himself from bondage by removing his Hook (right clever there, must be nice to have a removable hand) only to become Nearly Headless Hook, almost getting killed by Arthur in the Woods in Storybrooke, Jumping from a building only to be poofed by Emma, and finally being stabbed by Zelena. Emma was trying really hard to save Killian, and made a botched up mess of it in the process.

      Question, when did Zelena figure out that Hook was tethered to the other half of Excalibur? Because she sure seemed to be aware of what had happened there at the end.

      And now we have 3 weeks of Dark Hook in Camelot to catch up on (Probably in a single episode). Plus the promo that showed Killian throwing a sword to Rumple.  Are they ever going to let that grudge match just die?

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    • Eskaver wrote: Let's see:

      Snow is getting choked out and almost dying, she's fine, no check up on her.

      Hook gets a scratch and Emma's all over him making sure he's okay.

      I know some might be pro-ships and CS, but come on, it's like emma and Snow don't even have a relationship anymore.


      I agree. Are Kitsis and Horowitz deliberately ignoring the Emma/Snow relationship in the wake of what happened in Season 4? Oh wait . . . I forgot that they had a nice mother/daughter moment in "The Price". But after that . . . nothing.

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    • The scene in the diner, Neal and Roland were missing, whie all the others were there, meaning no one was watching over them? LOL

      Irrelevant, but I saw the scene and thought (perhaps Lancelot is with them off-screen)

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    • Do you think Hook is now a villain and does he have magic?

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    • 123a123 wrote:
      Do you think Hook is now a villain and does he have magic?

      Hook has had magic the entire time, in Storybrooke.... he just did not know. For a guy with a temper, it is incredible that he never had any accidental magical outbursts. Hook's willpower must have been much stronger, than he anticipated in Camelot.

      As for Dark Hook being a villain.... it is probably more along the lines, of forcing Emma to make the sacrifice, she refused to back in Camelot.

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    • 123a123 wrote:
      Do you think Hook is now a villain and does he have magic?

      Wait... Maybe the only thing he has from the Dark One is the immortality. Would explain why he hasn't shown magical powers or hasn't had insomnia. Both were tied to Nimue's branch of immortality and not whatever Emma stole from Merlin.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      123a123 wrote:
      Do you think Hook is now a villain and does he have magic?
      Wait... Maybe the only thing he has from the Dark One is the immortality. Would explain why he hasn't shown magical powers or hasn't had insomnia. Both were tied to Nimue's branch of immortality and not whatever Emma stole from Merlin.

      Then were is Merlin's magic and the voices in Hook's head? Merlin never mentioned anything, about not needing to sleep.

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      123a123 wrote:
      Do you think Hook is now a villain and does he have magic?
      Wait... Maybe the only thing he has from the Dark One is the immortality. Would explain why he hasn't shown magical powers or hasn't had insomnia. Both were tied to Nimue's branch of immortality and not whatever Emma stole from Merlin.
      Then were is Merlin's magic and the voices in Hook's head? Merlin never mentioned anything, about not needing to sleep.

      The voices in Emma's head are the Darkness. Merlin has no Darkness, so he wouldn't be in Hook's head. And Head!Rumple said once that the reason Emma doesn't sleep is because the Darkness is flowing through her veins. Again, no Darkness to be transferred from Merlin = no Darkness influencing Hook's actions.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      123a123 wrote:
      Do you think Hook is now a villain and does he have magic?
      Wait... Maybe the only thing he has from the Dark One is the immortality. Would explain why he hasn't shown magical powers or hasn't had insomnia. Both were tied to Nimue's branch of immortality and not whatever Emma stole from Merlin.

      I will agree with Edward here. But I think it's more than that.

      Emma may be sharing the Darkness + magic + immortality with Hook. Emma simply has all the voices and has a greater portion of the magic and such.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      123a123 wrote:
      Do you think Hook is now a villain and does he have magic?
      Wait... Maybe the only thing he has from the Dark One is the immortality. Would explain why he hasn't shown magical powers or hasn't had insomnia. Both were tied to Nimue's branch of immortality and not whatever Emma stole from Merlin.
      Then were is Merlin's magic and the voices in Hook's head? Merlin never mentioned anything, about not needing to sleep.
      The voices in Emma's head are the Darkness. Merlin has no Darkness, so he wouldn't be in Hook's head. And Head!Rumple said once that the reason Emma doesn't sleep is because the Darkness is flowing through her veins. Again, no Darkness to be transferred from Merlin = no Darkness influencing Hook's actions.

      So Hook wouldn't have been called a Dark One. But that is not what is said and shown on the episode. Hook is a dark one = there's darkness inside him.

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    • Farerb wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      123a123 wrote:
      Do you think Hook is now a villain and does he have magic?
      Wait... Maybe the only thing he has from the Dark One is the immortality. Would explain why he hasn't shown magical powers or hasn't had insomnia. Both were tied to Nimue's branch of immortality and not whatever Emma stole from Merlin.
      Then were is Merlin's magic and the voices in Hook's head? Merlin never mentioned anything, about not needing to sleep.
      The voices in Emma's head are the Darkness. Merlin has no Darkness, so he wouldn't be in Hook's head. And Head!Rumple said once that the reason Emma doesn't sleep is because the Darkness is flowing through her veins. Again, no Darkness to be transferred from Merlin = no Darkness influencing Hook's actions.
      So Hook wouldn't have been called a Dark One. But that is not what is said and shown on the episode. Hook is a dark one = there's darkness inside him.

      His own natural darkness is what makes him a Dark One, not anything he got from Merlin.

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Kingfan22 wrote:

      I don't get why Hook is mad at Emma. She saved his life, he should be thanking her. Also she didn't make him a dark one, HE made himself a dark one. He didn't have to turn evil, Merlin had that same darkness in him for a thousand years and never turned evil.

      It is more that Emma forced this burden onto Hook, when he just wanted to die in peace. Also, she wanted to kill another person to keep him alive. That would not save their future, as it is just Emma being selfish. Merlin warned her that if she does it, the only way to defeat the Darkness would be to pay a steep price. There are no shortcuts for something like this, which is what Emma was trying to do. She was just looking for an easy way out.

      It is similar, to what happened between Gold and Belle, last season. Emma thought she could keep the truth from Hook, just like Gold did with Belle. Both hide the truth out of love, but their lovers were left feeling betrayed. 

      But then why didn't Merlin become a Dark One when Zelena tethered the sword to him, I feel like wanting to control him is worse than Emma trying to save her true love, or did he not become a Dark One because he was already connected to Excalibur, but what Emma did was take away Merlin's immortality and give it to Hook 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Guys, Merlin didn't become a DO. He was just tethered so he was forced to do what they say.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Farerb wrote:

      So Hook wouldn't have been called a Dark One. But that is not what is said and shown on the episode. Hook is a dark one = there's darkness inside him.

      Hook is unfortunately a Dark One, because he was reborn from the Dark One's Vault.

      Merlin (like all people) did have darkness within, he just chose not to act upon it. Hence, why he did not corrupt his magic. From what it looked like, Emma transferred Merlin's magic and immortality into Hook. In doing so, she corrupted the magic.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Ray Donovan wrote:
      How does Emma blame everyone else for "failing her" over this entire situation in this episode? Emma was the one who was too scared of Hook's love to reject the darkness <eye roll>, then Hook got himself stabbed, and Emma was the one who chose to make Hook Dark Two. They then screwed more stuff up forcing Emma to jump back to Storybrooke and wipe memories. So this was all CS's fault. Why was Emma getting all pissy at Regina earlier this season? I think this is further indication that they changed paths midseason to be more about CS. Regina being the Savior storyline was scraped. Emma's no eyebrow dark one look was scrapped and you can tell that so many scenes JMO produced have been cut due to the rewrites. (Personally, Hook and Emma not being in Dark One makeup is too not piss fans off making their pretties uglified).

      We were suppose to see Snow/Charming/Henry fighting to save Emma but that has totally went to the wayside. We were suppose to see Emma's inner struggles about being an orphan and giving up her son and only seeing her son after 10 years. Oh no. This Emma is long and gone. Though Emma never expressed romantic interest being at the forefront in her mind, now she is all about pirate love. Long lost parents and son are no longer relevant.

      Oh yeah, nobody is mentioning the emotional blackmail by suicide as being romantic????

      -Pro Things actually happened in this episode.

      I don't really mind Emma's apperance her evilness as the Dark One is most important, but I do wish Dark Emma looked a little more like this

      5PromoEmma3

      Like a pale white face maybe something similar to Black Swan 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Farerb wrote:

      So Hook wouldn't have been called a Dark One. But that is not what is said and shown on the episode. Hook is a dark one = there's darkness inside him.

      Hook is unfortunately a Dark One, because he was reborn from the Dark One's Vault.

      Merlin (like all people) did have darkness within, he just chose not to act upon it. Hence, why he did not corrupt his magic. From what it looked like, Emma transferred Merlin's magic and immortality into Hook. In doing so, she corrupted the magic.

      And I totally agree with the last part. It's Emma's DO magic that corrupted the HG magic that was put into Hook.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Farerb wrote:

      So Hook wouldn't have been called a Dark One. But that is not what is said and shown on the episode. Hook is a dark one = there's darkness inside him.

      Hook is unfortunately a Dark One, because he was reborn from the Dark One's Vault.

      Merlin (like all people) did have darkness within, he just chose not to act upon it. Hence, why he did not corrupt his magic. From what it looked like, Emma transferred Merlin's magic and immortality into Hook. In doing so, she corrupted the magic.

      Now that's an explanation I can accept and I think that's what they tried to explain in the episode.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • It still doesn't explain why Hook never noticed he has magical powers.

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    • Farerb wrote:
      It still doesn't explain why Hook never noticed he has magical powers.

      He's super, super drunk! That's it. Dulls his powers.

      As some theorize, Hook might not have had access to his magic powers while his sword was in the stone. (That innuendo!)

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:
      Farerb wrote:
      It still doesn't explain why Hook never noticed he has magical powers.
      He's super, super drunk! That's it. Dulls his powers.

      As some theorize, Hook might not have had access to his magic powers while his sword was in the stone. (That innuendo!)

      Do you think that may be another reason why the kiss between Emma and Hook didn't work because he's also a Dark One, I also wonder why the kiss in Camelot didn't work, was it because Emma was too afraid to let go of the darkness, when Emma became the Dark One I thought all Hook had to was kiss her, why why did I think it would be that simple 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Anubis16 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Farerb wrote:
      It still doesn't explain why Hook never noticed he has magical powers.
      He's super, super drunk! That's it. Dulls his powers.

      As some theorize, Hook might not have had access to his magic powers while his sword was in the stone. (That innuendo!)

      Do you think that may be another reason why the kiss between Emma and Hook didn't work because he's also a Dark One, I also wonder why the kiss in Camelot didn't work, was it because Emma was too afraid to let go of the darkness, when Emma became the Dark One I thought all Hook had to was kiss her, why why did I think it would be that simple 

      No, it's all Emma.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      As some theorize, Hook might not have had access to his magic powers while his sword was in the stone. (That innuendo!)

      Now, that would make sense!

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      As some theorize, Hook might not have had access to his magic powers while his sword was in the stone. (That innuendo!)

      Now, that would make sense!

      I agree and I hope they will explain it next episode and won't leave it open.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Farerb wrote:
      ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      As some theorize, Hook might not have had access to his magic powers while his sword was in the stone. (That innuendo!)

      Now, that would make sense!
      I agree and I hope they will explain it next episode and won't leave it open.

      Eddy and Adam did say, that we would see how the sword ended up back in the stone. Since there was a glamour spell on it, I would guess that Emma put it in there.

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    • This was one killer episode! Say whatever you want, but except for spoilers from the internet, the writers know how to pull a plot twist – especially the whole Emma is after Zelena not her baby trick.

      So, things that meh:

      • Regina was a bit of a huge bitch with the Dagger thing. I mean, yes, she's the “desperate times call for desperate measures” kind of person, and said desperate measures went from heart ripping to magically aided speed-psychotherapy, but that was unnecessarily nasty, especially coming from a friend, and to someone she considers a friend. Of course she ment well, but bad things done with good intentions are still bad things. I guess we got her big misstep for this half season, she has to have one every now and then.
      • I'm not quite getting how Merlin's magic became dark when tranferring to Killian, or whatever the hell happened there. And it's still not explaining what's up with the free-roaming darkness: whas Merlin dark? Did his magic turn to darkness when Emma ripped it out of him? AND WHAT'S WITH THE DARK ONE'S VAULT?

      Things that rocked:

      • Conversely, I found weirdly nice the way Regina seemed worried about Zelena. I think deepd down their relationship is much more complex than it would appear, at least from Regina's side. There's hatred, but I guess she somehow still cares for her sister. That's definitely consistent with her personality, a lot of big talk about how tough and evil she is to protect herself and not to seem vulnerable, but deep down she's much more caring than she would admit.
      • Zelena killed this episode. Really, in all the scenes she was in.
      • All the CaptainSwan scenes were incredibly emotional, both in flashbacks and present day.
      • Finally, Emma's actions and her reactions make sense. Why she turned dark all of sudden, why she wiped away everyone's memory but still seemed conflicted about that, all that stuff. They pulled it off better than I expected. Also, it's interesting how vulnerable she seemed at her darkest. JMo was amazing!
      • Whoa, plot twist! I'm really curious to see what will become of Killian now.
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    • His own natural darkness is what makes him a Dark One, not anything he got from Merlin.


      You might as well say the same about everyone. All of them have evil within them. And that includes Emma, despite the spell or ritual that the Apprentice had done on her and Lily.

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    • GothicNarcissus wrote:
      • AND WHAT'S WITH THE DARK ONE'S VAULT?

      The Dark One Vault will never be fully explained, and existed for dramatic purposes only. In the writer' minds, how cool would it be to have someone be reborn from black ooze? 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      GothicNarcissus wrote:
      • AND WHAT'S WITH THE DARK ONE'S VAULT?
      The Dark One Vault will never be fully explained, and existed for dramatic purposes only. In the writer' minds, how cool would it be to have someone be reborn from black ooze? 

      You know, I'd roll with it if they explained a) that it has the Dark One emerge from it when they are resurrected like Rumple or acquire power by other means than stabbing the previous Dark One (like Emma and Killian), and b) how it came into existence in he first place. Having Nimue creating it as a fail safe not to disappear completely in case something went wrong would be a logical and elegant explanation, but will we ever be getting it? :/

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Anubis16 wrote:

      Do you think that may be another reason why the kiss between Emma and Hook didn't work because he's also a Dark One, I also wonder why the kiss in Camelot didn't work, was it because Emma was too afraid to let go of the darkness, when Emma became the Dark One I thought all Hook had to was kiss her, why why did I think it would be that simple 

      To quote Belle.... a curse is not a curse anymore, if the inflicted wants it.

      Emma was never cursed, as she chose to become a vessel for the Darkness. She embraced the Darkness long before, she transformed into the Dark Swan. Also, she is not possessed. While there are voices in her head, she makes the choice to listen or not. Unfortunately, Emma is choosing to indulge in her darkest desires. Though, I do love the irony, of the kiss scene now. Since, Hook told her, that is not who he is.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I feel kinda bad for emma. SE WAS ONLY SAVING HOOKS LIFE!!! i mean i understando that hook hates dark one and now he is on but... HE SHOULD BE GRATEFUL HE IS ALIVE!

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • GothicNarcissus wrote:
      ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      GothicNarcissus wrote:
      • AND WHAT'S WITH THE DARK ONE'S VAULT?
      The Dark One Vault will never be fully explained, and existed for dramatic purposes only. In the writer' minds, how cool would it be to have someone be reborn from black ooze? 
      You know, I'd roll with it if they explained a) that it has the Dark One emerge from it when they are resurrected like Rumple or acquire power by other means than stabbing the previous Dark One (like Emma and Killian), and b) how it came into existence in he first place. Having Nimue creating it as a fail safe not to disappear completely in case something went wrong would be a logical and elegant explanation, but will we ever be getting it? :/

      Yeah, I think we'll just have to all accept it as headcanon/fancanon.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I have a slight theory for as to how Hook was oblivious to the fact that he was a Dark One. In this episode, we did see that he could be knocked unconscious, considering that's what Emma did to him. So, at least in terms of him not being able to sleep, perhaps she controlled his "sleep patterns" indirectly by casting a sleeping spell on him. Referring to his magic, I suspect that she suppressed it somehow, but that's less supported than my Sleep Theory.

      However, I do like the whole Sword in the Stone Theory for how his abilities and Dark One nature were negated.

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    • Soph12562 wrote:
      I feel kinda bad for emma. SE WAS ONLY SAVING HOOKS LIFE!!! i mean i understando that hook hates dark one and now he is on but... HE SHOULD BE GRATEFUL HE IS ALIVE!

      In the classic and famous words, of Prince Charming.... "I would rather die, than let you will your heart with darkness."

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    • FrancisPaul wrote:
      The scene in the diner, Neal and Roland were missing, whie all the others were there, meaning no one was watching over them? LOL

      Irrelevant, but I saw the scene and thought (perhaps Lancelot is with them off-screen)

      Grumpy was not there.

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      FrancisPaul wrote:
      The scene in the diner, Neal and Roland were missing, whie all the others were there, meaning no one was watching over them? LOL

      Irrelevant, but I saw the scene and thought (perhaps Lancelot is with them off-screen)

      Grumpy was not there.

      Nice catch! He was babystting! lol

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • If Gold doesn't want his important things to be found, he might want to keep them in another place. That vault behind his painting in the shop has been opened several times in front of so many people.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Rainarooo wrote:
      If Gold doesn't want his important things to be found, he might want to keep them in another place. That vault behind his painting in the shop has been opened several times in front of so many people.

      Or Gold wanted Emma to steal the squid ink, so that Hook would eventually use it on her. Remember, he was the Dark One for centuries.... he knows a thing or two, about manipulating events.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Rainarooo wrote:
      If Gold doesn't want his important things to be found, he might want to keep them in another place. That vault behind his painting in the shop has been opened several times in front of so many people.
      Or Gold wanted Emma to steal the squid ink, so that Hook would eventually use it on her. Remember, he was the Dark One for centuries.... he knows a thing or two, about manipulating events.

      Or he recently put it there. I swear they change what's in that safe every episode.

      Edit: 506: The safe only had the anti-transformation (that name hurts me) powder

      I guess it poofs up any magical item required or he just put it in their recently.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Rainarooo wrote:
      If Gold doesn't want his important things to be found, he might want to keep them in another place. That vault behind his painting in the shop has been opened several times in front of so many people.
      Or Gold wanted Emma to steal the squid ink, so that Hook would eventually use it on her. Remember, he was the Dark One for centuries.... he knows a thing or two, about manipulating events.
      Or he recently put it there. I swear they change what's in that safe every episode.

      Gold recently put the squid ink in his safe.... so that Emma would steal it.... so that Hook would use it.... so that everyone would finally learn what the Dark Swan's plans are.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Rainarooo wrote:
      If Gold doesn't want his important things to be found, he might want to keep them in another place. That vault behind his painting in the shop has been opened several times in front of so many people.
      Or Gold wanted Emma to steal the squid ink, so that Hook would eventually use it on her. Remember, he was the Dark One for centuries.... he knows a thing or two, about manipulating events.
      Or he recently put it there. I swear they change what's in that safe every episode.
      Gold recently put the squid ink in his safe.... so that Emma would steal it.... so that Hook would use it.... so that everyone would finally learn what the Dark Swan's plans are.

      Maybe, maybe, but......I don't know. They sort of present Rumple as un-fanged. He actually didn't do much as he gloated on doing, unless this was it. Hales (the new writer) said that the snow globe was an item (possibly magical) that was used, which is why we saw Rumple and Hook with it, but its stuff was cut from the episode.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:

      Maybe, maybe, but......I don't know. They sort of present Rumple as un-fanged. He actually didn't do much as he gloated on doing, unless this was it. Hales (the new writer) said that the snow globe was an item (possibly magical) that was used, which is why we saw Rumple and Hook with it, but its stuff was cut from the episode.

      The snowglobe was used for what.... to steal the ink?

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      Maybe, maybe, but......I don't know. They sort of present Rumple as un-fanged. He actually didn't do much as he gloated on doing, unless this was it. Hales (the new writer) said that the snow globe was an item (possibly magical) that was used, which is why we saw Rumple and Hook with it, but its stuff was cut from the episode.

      The snowglobe was used for what.... to steal the ink?

      Snowglobe could've been the vial under a glamour spell? IDK

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      Maybe, maybe, but......I don't know. They sort of present Rumple as un-fanged. He actually didn't do much as he gloated on doing, unless this was it. Hales (the new writer) said that the snow globe was an item (possibly magical) that was used, which is why we saw Rumple and Hook with it, but its stuff was cut from the episode.

      The snowglobe was used for what.... to steal the ink?
      Snowglobe could've been the vial under a glamour spell? IDK

      Thinking like the writers aren't you? The writers pretty much are telling us that nothing may be what it seems. All these glamours are a clue and we know who's known for glamours-----series finale, last scene: Everyone's Cora!

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      Maybe, maybe, but......I don't know. They sort of present Rumple as un-fanged. He actually didn't do much as he gloated on doing, unless this was it. Hales (the new writer) said that the snow globe was an item (possibly magical) that was used, which is why we saw Rumple and Hook with it, but its stuff was cut from the episode.

      The snowglobe was used for what.... to steal the ink?
      Snowglobe could've been the vial under a glamour spell? IDK
      Thinking like the writers aren't you? The writers pretty much are telling us that nothing may be what it seems. All these glamours are a clue and we know who's known for glamours-----series finale, last scene: Everyone's Cora!

      IDK, I just try to rationalize the plotholes on-screen from previous stuff we've seen before. Like the whole "off-screen actions" arguments lol 

      Also, did Wikia finally fix itself when loading new replies?! O.o

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      Maybe, maybe, but......I don't know. They sort of present Rumple as un-fanged. He actually didn't do much as he gloated on doing, unless this was it. Hales (the new writer) said that the snow globe was an item (possibly magical) that was used, which is why we saw Rumple and Hook with it, but its stuff was cut from the episode.

      The snowglobe was used for what.... to steal the ink?
      Snowglobe could've been the vial under a glamour spell? IDK
      Thinking like the writers aren't you? The writers pretty much are telling us that nothing may be what it seems. All these glamours are a clue and we know who's known for glamours-----series finale, last scene: Everyone's Cora!
      IDK, I just try to rationalize the plotholes on-screen from previous stuff we've seen before. Like the whole "off-screen actions" arguments lol 

      Also, did Wikia finally fix itself when loading new replies?! O.o

      Yeah, I assume that they'll either use it in a future episode, but I doubt it. Could have just said it was a crystal ball.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      Yeah, I assume that they'll either use it in a future episode, but I doubt it. Could have just said it was a crystal ball.

      There was a crystal ball in Merlin's tower, that looked like that snowglobe.

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      Yeah, I assume that they'll either use it in a future episode, but I doubt it. Could have just said it was a crystal ball.

      There was a crystal ball in Merlin's tower, that looked like that snowglobe.

      Does look like that but we don't know what it does.

      Wait a minute? Did Belle have one of Merlin's books when talking about the snuffing out of light magic? Because Rumple made a case in season 4 that he didn't have a spell to rid of light magic when Emma wanted to get rid of it. I'll have to check.

      Edit: Belle did have Merlin's spellbook! How in the word did she get that and how would she know? I assume the magic items came with them in the curse, but plothole, much.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:
      ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      Yeah, I assume that they'll either use it in a future episode, but I doubt it. Could have just said it was a crystal ball.

      There was a crystal ball in Merlin's tower, that looked like that snowglobe.
      Does look like that but we don't know what it does.

      I may have an idea.... Merlin said, that Nimue could help destroy the Darkness. That could be the item, that channels her into physical form. Also, Merlin's things were brought over with this new curse. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I don’t think there has been a curse since we saw Merlin’s things in his castle.  If there was a curse that brought them back from Camelot then Emma (assuming she would be the one to cast it) would have to sacrifice that of which she loves most as the last piece of the curse and both Henry and Hook are alive and in Storybrook.  Also I don’t think they had the paper with the curse on it in Camelot, it should be wherever the last curse put it after Snow cast it.  My guess is that with the Dark One’s powers Emma was able to use the Apprentice’s wand to travel back.  She is more powerful than Zelena or Regina so she should be able to control it better in order to bring the people of Camelot back with them.  My best guess is that Belle being Belle brought all the books she could from Merlin’s tower to Granny’s diner because she loves reading.  The crystal ball/ snow globe could easily have been brought to the diner as well by someone who was aware of its powers if it has any (probably either Regina or Merlin himself).

      My question that I am not sure if it has been answered on the show yet or not is does Rumple still have his gift (or curse depending on how you look at it) from the seer?  If so that could be how he knew to put the ink in his safe.  Also I would like to add that that the safe use to be secured with blood magic up until Rumple lost the Dark One powers so it didn’t matter if people knew it was there because only his blood could open it.  Zelena needed a drop of his blood that she got from nicking him while giving him a shave in order to steal what as in it.

      My interpretation of seeing the future is that while the Dark One can (or at least Merlin could and their powers did come from the same source) sometimes see the future (Merlin’s words not mine) and different outcomes that can arise depending on what people do (such as Emma using Excalibur), the gift from the seer let Rumple have a far more clear and direct vision of the future (even if “the meaning of it is not always what you think” ~Seer).  If Rumple still has this power (as it was not part of the Dark One’s powers), then he could have helped Hook trap Emma without anyone besides himself knowing it.  He could also continue to put plans in the motion while staying behind the scenes because that is more in his character and would explain why we haven’t seen him yet act on his warning to Emma.

      Even if the gift from the seer died when Rumple did originally, he could know that Emma is most likely going to sneak into his shop and check the vault for magical items because it use to be locked with blood magic making it the safest place in Storybrook for Rumple to put something during his reign as the Dark One.  Also, Rumple knows how the Dark One thinks as he was the Dark One longer than anyone else was so there are multiple reasons for him to know Emma would steal whatever was inside of it.

      I very much like the “Sword in the Stone” theory for Hook’s powers or lack thereof but find that Emma using magic to make it seem like he is normal seems more plausible.  It would explain how she always knew to be at the right place at the right time to save Hook from getting seriously injured or killed.  She was keeping a constant eye on him so that she would know when to use the sleeping curse on him (him drinking until he passes out every night that they have been back explains this one nicely as well and with everything he has been through and has been dealing with really who could blame him), when to concentrate on suppressing his powers (I’m assuming this one would take quite a bit of concentration and energy to do so she would only be able to do it when need be, i.e. when his emotion are elevated, unless there is a potion she could make to do this and she is just slipping it into his rum or something)  and of course the obvious when to prevent him from finding out he is immortal.

      Sorry it was so long but I just got done writing a college essay so I guess I am currently in that mindset.  Thank y’all for bearing with me and reading until the end.  One last food for thought, do y’all think Emma is going to attempt to take away Zelena and Hook’s memories with her dreamcatchers again so that she can have a second attempt at her original plan? 

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    • Farerb wrote:
      Emma doesn't want to give up the darkness because she is affraid of commitment? seriosly?

      Seriously.

      Farerb wrote:
      Emma couldn't let Hook die but it was fine when it was Neal.

      She didn' have thatk kind of knowledge and that kind of power before. Neal was her first love, who broke her heart. Hook didn't do this.

      Farerb wrote:
      Emma can make Hook a dark one by holding a sword over him and think really hard. Why couldn't Rumple do it to Neal. Don't get your hopes up for that to be explained...so much for the show's mythology.

      We are taking about Excalibur, not some ordinary sword. Emma was the first Dark One with full access to Excalibur and that is why she could do this.

      Farerb wrote:
      Hook never showed any signs of having darkness in him. where are the voices? where is the magic?

      EMMA TOOK POWER FROM MERLIN, THE LIGHT ONE. MAYBE HE COULD SLEEP?! Gold didn't remember that he was DO during first curse. I know that at this time there was no magic in town, but the point is, he didn't remember.

      Farerb wrote:
      This season stopped making any sense.

      For you. Quit if you want to.

      Eskaver wrote:

      Wait a minute? Did Belle have one of Merlin's books when talking about the snuffing out of light magic? Because Rumple made a case in season 4 that he didn't have a spell to rid of light magic when Emma wanted to get rid of it. I'll have to check.

      Edit: Belle did have Merlin's spellbook! How in the word did she get that and how would she know? I assume the magic items came with them in the curse, but plothole, much.

      magic items came with them, with third curse

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    • Michu1945
      Michu1945 removed this reply because:
      Two posts.
      10:45, November 18, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • Frulna wrote:

      I don’t think there has been a curse since we saw Merlin’s things in his castle.  If there was a curse that brought them back from Camelot then Emma (assuming she would be the one to cast it) would have to sacrifice that of which she loves most as the last piece of the curse and both Henry and Hook are alive and in Storybrook.  Also I don’t think they had the paper with the curse on it in Camelot, it should be wherever the last curse put it after Snow cast it.  My guess is that with the Dark One’s powers Emma was able to use the Apprentice’s wand to travel back.  She is more powerful than Zelena or Regina so she should be able to control it better in order to bring the people of Camelot back with them.  My best guess is that Belle being Belle brought all the books she could from Merlin’s tower to Granny’s diner because she loves reading.  The crystal ball/ snow globe could easily have been brought to the diner as well by someone who was aware of its powers if it has any (probably either Regina or Merlin himself).

      Merlin's things were brought over to Storybrooke, when everyone returned. If the the Dark Curse was enacted, someone used Merlin's heart. Emma said, that Nimue was still in love with him. Only a curse would explain, why King Arthur was brought over from Camelot. No one would willingly want him around, after what happened.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Is it not possible there is another curse that transport people to other lands?

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      Yeah, I assume that they'll either use it in a future episode, but I doubt it. Could have just said it was a crystal ball.

      There was a crystal ball in Merlin's tower, that looked like that snowglobe.

      Does look like that but we don't know what it does.

      Wait a minute? Did Belle have one of Merlin's books when talking about the snuffing out of light magic? Because Rumple made a case in season 4 that he didn't have a spell to rid of light magic when Emma wanted to get rid of it. I'll have to check.

      Edit: Belle did have Merlin's spellbook! How in the word did she get that and how would she know? I assume the magic items came with them in the curse, but plothole, much.

      Also, she was the one that had the book in almost every Camelot flashback. It make sense it will come with the curse.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Mesmermann wrote:
      Is it not possible there is another curse that transport people to other lands?

      Not that we know of.... and Eddy and Adam said, that someone's heart was used.

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Frulna wrote:

      I don’t think there has been a curse since we saw Merlin’s things in his castle.  If there was a curse that brought them back from Camelot then Emma (assuming she would be the one to cast it) would have to sacrifice that of which she loves most as the last piece of the curse and both Henry and Hook are alive and in Storybrook.  Also I don’t think they had the paper with the curse on it in Camelot, it should be wherever the last curse put it after Snow cast it.  My guess is that with the Dark One’s powers Emma was able to use the Apprentice’s wand to travel back.  She is more powerful than Zelena or Regina so she should be able to control it better in order to bring the people of Camelot back with them.  My best guess is that Belle being Belle brought all the books she could from Merlin’s tower to Granny’s diner because she loves reading.  The crystal ball/ snow globe could easily have been brought to the diner as well by someone who was aware of its powers if it has any (probably either Regina or Merlin himself).

      Merlin's things were brought over to Storybrooke, when everyone returned. If the the Dark Curse was enacted, someone used Merlin's heart. Emma said, that Nimue was still in love with him. Only a curse would explain, why King Arthur was brought over from Camelot. No one would willingly want him around, after what happened.

      But Nimue is dead. How and why would she rip Merlin's heart and cast a curse?

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    • CadoDoan wrote:

      But Nimue is dead. How and why would she rip Merlin's heart and cast a curse?

      Nimue is alive in Emma's head, as we have already seen. 

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      CadoDoan wrote:

      But Nimue is dead. How and why would she rip Merlin's heart and cast a curse?

      Nimue is alive in Emma's head, as we have already seen. 

      So she really is not dead? Because I thought the Dark Ones in Emma's head are just visions and are not physically there

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    • Yeah, she is dead, otherwise there wouldn't have been dark ones after her. And I doubt there is a non-dark one Nimue around.

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    • Chameleon-Guy wrote:
      Yeah, she is dead, otherwise there wouldn't have been dark ones after her. And I doubt there is a non-dark one Nimue around.

      It is not a question of Nimue having a physical body, because we have already seen her being channeled through Emma. Though, for all we know, that mysterious snowglobe does contain Nimue's body.... there is something inside it. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Mesmermann wrote:
      Is it not possible there is another curse that transport people to other lands?
      Not that we know of.... and Eddy and Adam said, that someone's heart was used.

      No, the interview did say a Curse was cast. Then they said the Dark Curse needs a heart. They also said Emma crushes a heart.

      These are all statements that we would assume go together, meaning that Emma cast the Dark Curse in Camelot by killing someone. But that assumption could be deadly wrong.

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    • Bad news UK fans. No new episodes now till Jan 1st. No idea why that is, but there ya go.

      No chance of me having the will power to avoid spoilers for that long this close to the half finale.

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:

      Chameleon-Guy wrote:
      Yeah, she is dead, otherwise there wouldn't have been dark ones after her. And I doubt there is a non-dark one Nimue around.

      It is not a question of Nimue having a physical body, because we have already seen her being channeled through Emma. Though, for all we know, that mysterious snowglobe does contain Nimue's body.... there is something inside it. 

      I wonder what's inside the mystery box.

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      CadoDoan wrote:

      But Nimue is dead. How and why would she rip Merlin's heart and cast a curse?

      Nimue is alive in Emma's head, as we have already seen. 

      I was thinking the otther day, would it be possible for any previous Dark One to come back, if the Dark One is immortal let's say a previous Dark One reforms their body to look like their own and completley takes over them, am I making sense, I don't know how to explain it, I also wonder if Rumple's heart had gone completley black would he have died and become Nimue 

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:

      No, the interview did say a Curse was cast. Then they said the Dark Curse needs a heart. They also said Emma crushes a heart.

      These are all statements that we would assume go together, meaning that Emma cast the Dark Curse in Camelot by killing someone. But that assumption could be deadly wrong.

      It could have been Emma, or someone else entirely.... ahem, Hook. Although, Excalibur conveniently ending up in Emma's basement, would suggest that she was the enactor. Unless, she pulled a Zelena and hijacked the curse.

      After the events of 5.08, Emma crushing a heart could be metaphorical. We saw Hook's heart shatter, when he learned the truth. Who is to say that his reaction, was not the same back in Camelot?


      Anubis16 wrote:

      I was thinking the otther day, would it be possible for any previous Dark One to come back, if the Dark One is immortal let's say a previous Dark One reforms their body to look like their own and completley takes over them, am I making sense, I don't know how to explain it, I also wonder if Rumple's heart had gone completley black would he have died and become Nimue 

      The scary thing, is that this theory does make sense. The Dark One does have the ability to shapeshift, as we witnessed Rumplestiltskin do it several times.

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    • Ok, there was a curse cast. However, if it was the Nimue aspect of the Dark One that cast the curse, then Emma could use Merlin's heart (Nimue's love). Dark Ones love finding loop holes, and that would be a doozy of one.

      And before anyone asks why Rumple just didn't use that approach himself, rather than having Regina do the dirty work, remember that any previous dark one's loved ones would be long dead by the point Rumple needed the dark curse, and Rumple was unable to free Merlin. It is specfically Emma, and ONLY Emma, that would be able to pull this stunt.

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    • Hmcooper4 wrote:
      Ok, there was a curse cast. However, if it was the Nimue aspect of the Dark One that cast the curse, then Emma could use Merlin's heart (Nimue's love). Dark Ones love finding loop holes, and that would be a doozy of one.

      It would explain Dopey turning into a tree, when he crossed the townline.

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    • I hope they don't call the baby girl Marian, or Cora, or anybody dead, it's just sad.

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    • Chameleon-Guy wrote:
      I hope they don't call the baby girl Marian, or Cora, or anybody dead, it's just sad.

      I doubt Robin would name his daughter with his current girlfriend's sister after the dead wife that said sister killed. Nor would he allow Zelena to name their daughter after the mother who abandoned her.

      If anything, Zelena might want to name her daughter after Zelena's unnamed adoptive mother.

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    • Maybe a name that related to the color green?

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    • DarKingdomHearts wrote:
      Maybe a name that related to the color green?

      They could name the baby Green. Tink doesn't like that nickname anyway XD

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    • I hope they don't call her Verde or other translations of green, I know Zelena means green but it's actually a cool name. Maybe Emerald?

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    • Olive. it's not really green... but a shade of green. Emerald could be a nice one though, also immediately referencing to Emerald City

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    • Y'all... Zelena was the unofficial queen of Oz. She was the strongest being there, lived in the Emerald Palace of the Emerald City. Her daughter would be the Princess of Oz. And canonically in the books, the Princess of Oz is called Ozma.

      So most likely the name they'll choose is Ozma.

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    • Chameleon-Guy wrote:
      I hope they don't call the baby girl Marian, or Cora, or anybody dead, it's just sad.

      I just had a thought, do you think maybe one day in the future when they're grown Neal and Zelena's unamed child could be together, although I'm not sure if they're related or not, I know there is no way they can be related by blood, but he's the nephew of his mother's stepmother, I'd like to think technically speaking Regina is no longer Snow's stepmother, or at least now they don't really consider her Snow's stepmother (but still think of her as a good friend) I'm also wondering is Regina Emma's step-grandmother 

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    • Well, Zelena's daughter is technically Neal's step grandmother's niece. But there is no blood. They can be together xD

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    • CadoDoan wrote:
      Well, Zelena's daughter is technically Neal's step grandmother's niece. But there is no blood. They can be together xD

      Why are you guys playing matchmaker for a couple of infants?

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      CadoDoan wrote:
      Well, Zelena's daughter is technically Neal's step grandmother's niece. But there is no blood. They can be together xD
      Why are you guys playing matchmaker for a couple of infants?

      I don't want them to get together now, they're babies, I just thought they were born close together I just think it would be cute if they grew up together and then got together when they grow up

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    • Anubis16 wrote:
      ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      CadoDoan wrote:
      Well, Zelena's daughter is technically Neal's step grandmother's niece. But there is no blood. They can be together xD
      Why are you guys playing matchmaker for a couple of infants?
      I don't want them to get together now, they're babies, I just thought they were born close together I just think it would be cute if they grew up together and then got together when they grow up

      No, no, no! LOL This family tree is already too twisted and knotted. The last thing we need is for Regina and Snow to actually be related through blood because of Regina's niece and Snow's son.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Anubis16 wrote:
      ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      CadoDoan wrote:
      Well, Zelena's daughter is technically Neal's step grandmother's niece. But there is no blood. They can be together xD
      Why are you guys playing matchmaker for a couple of infants?
      I don't want them to get together now, they're babies, I just thought they were born close together I just think it would be cute if they grew up together and then got together when they grow up
      No, no, no! LOL This family tree is already too twisted and knotted. The last thing we need is for Regina and Snow to actually be related through blood because of Regina's niece and Snow's son.

      I just thought that would be cute 

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    • It would have been amazing if, like a couple of rumors said, Zelena and Robin's daughter was Merida, it would have made so much sense. But they had to be faithful to the movie.

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    • Chameleon-Guy wrote:
      It would have been amazing if, like a couple of rumors said, Zelena and Robin's daughter was Merida, it would have made so much sense. But they had to be faithful to the movie.

      That wouldn't make sense at all and then it wouldn't be Merida. That's like making Harry Potter being the son of Arthur and Gwen and then he wouldn't be the character. It's not like Merida is a fairytale. You can't change the character without making simply another character, only for public domain, which Merida isn't.

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    • Chameleon-Guy wrote:
      It would have been amazing if, like a couple of rumors said, Zelena and Robin's daughter was Merida, it would have made so much sense. But they had to be faithful to the movie.

      no

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    • Why do we keep calling the entity "the Darkness"? It's Nimue. Why not call it for what it truly is?


      If that ink was capable of immobilizing both Rumpelstiltskin and Emma, that means that particular squid is more powerful than "the Dark One". What other beings or creatures are more powerful? The Chernabog? After all, Rumpelstiltskin needed Maleficent, Ursula and Cruella's help to distract it and retrieve the curse. Why didn't he simply kill it?

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    • CTrent29 wrote:
      Why do we keep calling the entity "the Darkness"? It's Nimue. Why not call it for what it truly is?


      If that ink was capable of immobilizing both Rumpelstiltskin and Emma, that means that particular squid is more powerful than "the Dark One". What other beings or creatures are more powerful? The Chernabog? After all, Rumpelstiltskin needed Maleficent, Ursula and Cruella's help to distract it and retrieve the curse. Why didn't he simply kill it?

      Well, it's actually corrupted magic from the Holy Grail. But they don't do words or math very well. Let's not get started on season 4's potential for Darkness stuff. (But it's not Nimue, because it's the other Dark Ones too).

      The ink was always able to immobolize the DO, even back in season 1 and 3. Squid Ink was said to immobolize even the most powerful of magical beings.

      As for the Chernabog thing, they never said why Maleficent didn't just poof all of them out of the cave, either. But that's why I always say that magic is overpowered. Rumple could have just did all that stuff himself and then poofed out.

      But all that is off-topic.

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    • Ok, one quick comment.  Did anyone else notice that Emma's outfit changed from her Camelot White gown to her Dark One Black leather when she tethered Killian to Excalibur?  I think we can safely say that this is the point where she accepted the Darkness and "Officially" became the Dark One.

      And I have a feeling that "Lover's quarrel" is getting ready to take on a whole new meaning between Killian and Emma. (I can already hear the CaptainSwan fans hearts breaking even now).

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    • Hmcooper4 wrote:.

      And I have a feeling that "Lover's quarrel" is getting ready to take on a whole new meaning between Killian and Emma. (I can already hear the CaptainSwan fans hearts breaking even now).

      As someone who supports the relationship between Hook and Emma, I am very happy that he is upset at her. I would have been worried, if he was all gung-ho with being forced to become a Dark One.

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    • Well, it's actually corrupted magic from the Holy Grail. But they don't do words or math very well. Let's not get started on season 4's potential for Darkness stuff. (But it's not Nimue, because it's the other Dark Ones too).


      But didn't Nimue corrupted the magic from the Grail through her own actions, hatred toward the guy who had destroyed her village and her desire for revenge? And didn't her action led to her being the first "Dark One"?

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    • CTrent29 wrote:
      Well, it's actually corrupted magic from the Holy Grail. But they don't do words or math very well. Let's not get started on season 4's potential for Darkness stuff. (But it's not Nimue, because it's the other Dark Ones too).

      But didn't Nimue corrupted the magic from the Grail through her own actions, hatred toward the guy who had destroyed her village and her desire for revenge? And didn't her action led to her being the first "Dark One"?

      Yes, through her giving into her hatred.

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Hmcooper4 wrote:.

      And I have a feeling that "Lover's quarrel" is getting ready to take on a whole new meaning between Killian and Emma. (I can already hear the CaptainSwan fans hearts breaking even now).

      As someone who supports the relationship between Hook and Emma, I am very happy that he is upset at her. I would have been worried, if he was all gung-ho with being forced to become a Dark One.

      He'll forgive her next episode, I predict.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      He'll forgive her next episode, I predict.

      Forgiveness does not mean that Hook, would want to start a future while they are Dark Ones. Which, is what some of the crazy shippers want.

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    • I don't think Hook will become a Dark One. Merlin said that was what could happen, and Hook was only certain he would go Dark because he doesn't trust himself to do good. All he got was the power of the Holy Grail, as did Merlin, Nimue etc. and it was Merlin's power that was transferred to him, so it's his choice what to do with it.

      I know he emerged from the Dark One vault but I'm sure there will be an explanation for that ... perhaps that the vault summons anyone who has just created a new tether to the sword AND received the power at the same time - i.e. only Emma and Hook, as Rumplestiltskin simply replaced Zoso in his tether, and Merlin and Nimue had their power before they were tethered to either half of the sword. I don't know why it would work like this but at least it would fit.

      Anyway, I think/hope this Dark magic stuff will simply be one last test for Hook, and one that he'll pass now that he has found true love. Hook didn't take centuries to fight off his darkness as he said, he took a few weeks of Emma's love to make him a changed man. And after Emma finally let Hook in despite her history of dead boyfriends "because I'm a survivor, love", I refuse to believe the writers would be so cruel as to destroy her newfound happiness once and for all - and if Hook dies in the end I'll stop watching.

      (Also I love how you see a glint of Killian's hook through his cloak - the Darkness can completely recreate Killian's body and give him a new outfit but can't regrow his hand xD)

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    • Judging from the next episode's previews, I don't see that happening.  He is VERY angry at the moment.  And anger has led many of the characters to do terrible things.


      All these glamours are a clue and we know who's known for glamours-----series finale, last scene: Everyone's Cora!


      We've seen Regina, Rumpelstiltskin, Zelena and Jafar use glamour.  Why should this ability be limited to Cora?

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    • CTrent29 wrote:
      Judging from the next episode's previews, I don't see that happening.  He is VERY angry at the moment.  And anger has led many of the characters to do terrible things.


      All these glamours are a clue and we know who's known for glamours-----series finale, last scene: Everyone's Cora!


      We've seen Regina, Rumpelstiltskin, Zelena and Jafar use glamour.  Why should this ability be limited to Cora?

      A wise man once said that fear leads to anger anger leads to hate hate leads to suffering 

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    • Poor Yoda.  He had to learn from personal experience.

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    • CTrent29 wrote:
      Judging from the next episode's previews, I don't see that happening.  He is VERY angry at the moment.  And anger has led many of the characters to do terrible things.

      They've spent 8 episodes letting us think Emma has given into the Darkness and then revealing she has good intentions, she's just going the wrong way about it. If the preview is trying to paint Hook as evil then, knowing the writers, it most likely means he's playing everyone, possibly to defeat Arthur and Zelena.

      But at least I hope for a moment of Darkness when Hook fights Gold, which will give him another chance to be a hero. After Gold's "you've made me a hero now" talk and then disappearing for the whole season so far, I imagine that's going to become an important factor next week.

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    • They've spent 8 episodes letting us think Emma has given into the Darkness and then revealing she has good intentions, she's just going the wrong way about it.


      Emma literally committed psychic rape in order to prevent Hook's death for selfish reasons.  She also plotted to do the same to Zelena so that she could kill the latter in cold-blood.  She has no excuse whatsoever.

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    • Frulna wrote:
      Farerb wrote:
      Frulna wrote:
      Farerb wrote:
      Emma doesn't want to give up the darkness because she is affraid of commitment? seriosly?

      Emma couldn't let Hook die but it was fine when it was Neal.

      Emma can make Hook a dark one by holding a sword over him and think really hard. Why couldn't Rumple do it to Neal. Don't get your hopes up for that to be explained...so much for the show's mythology.

      Hook never showed any signs of having darkness in him. where are the voices? where is the magic?

      This season stopped making any sense.

      It was said that the only reason the sword worked to save Hook was because Merlin was attached to it.  It transferred Merlin's powers to Hook giving Hook immortality.  The only voice that could be in Hooks head would be Merlin as Hook is the second one with powers from that branch.  It is also possible that because Merlin never gave into the darkness that he doesn't return as a voice in Hook's head.  Just because the show does spell out the mythology for you doesn't mean it ain't there.
      You clearly missed the part when they said Hook is another Dark One. There is a scene with him coming out of the vault. Go watch the episode again.
      He is a Dark One yes but from Merlin's branch of power not Nimue.  We clearly saw the powers being taken from Merlin and given to Hook.

      No we didn't.  What you saw coming out of Merlin was NOT Dark Magic.  It was the binding magic that bound him to the sword.  The same sort of maginc that came out of Rumple when the Apprentice released him from the dagger.  The rope-like blackness is the binding magic - it is just a pity they didn't decide to use this effect when Rumple stabbed Zoso.

      I have constantly seen people wondering where the 'darkeness' in Merlin came from.  It's a pity they didn't notice that the binding spell looks completely different from all the others.


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    • CTrent29 wrote:
      They've spent 8 episodes letting us think Emma has given into the Darkness and then revealing she has good intentions, she's just going the wrong way about it.


      Emma literally committed psychic rape in order to prevent Hook's death for selfish reasons.  She also plotted to do the same to Zelena so that she could kill the latter in cold-blood.  She has no excuse whatsoever.

      Hold up. How is keeping someone alive in any way shape or form RAPE? Even if it was against his wishes, it wasn't SEX. So it's not RAPE.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      CTrent29 wrote:
      They've spent 8 episodes letting us think Emma has given into the Darkness and then revealing she has good intentions, she's just going the wrong way about it.

      Emma literally committed psychic rape in order to prevent Hook's death for selfish reasons.  She also plotted to do the same to Zelena so that she could kill the latter in cold-blood.  She has no excuse whatsoever.

      Hold up. How is keeping someone alive in any way shape or form RAPE? Even if it was against his wishes, it wasn't SEX. So it's not RAPE.

      Lol, "Psychic rape". I think the word is disrespect or psychological trauma.

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    • I don't. What do you think Hook went through? Especially after he learned what Emma had done to him?


      Hold up. How is keeping someone alive in any way shape or form RAPE? Even if it was against his wishes, it wasn't SEX. So it's not RAPE.

      Rape does not always have to involve sex. Emma had inflicted the Dark One curse upon Hook against his will. Hook was prepared to die and instead of allowing him to do so in peace, Emma used Excalibur to curse him in order to keep him alive for her own selfish reasons. As far as I'm concerned, she had committed psychic rape.

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    • CTrent29 wrote:
      I don't. What do you think Hook went through? Especially after he learned what Emma had done to him?


      Hold up. How is keeping someone alive in any way shape or form RAPE? Even if it was against his wishes, it wasn't SEX. So it's not RAPE.


      Rape does not always have to involve sex. Emma had inflicted the Dark One curse upon Hook against his will. Hook was prepared to die and instead of allowing him to do so in peace, Emma used Excalibur to curse him in order to keep him alive for her own selfish reasons. As far as I'm concerned, she had committed psychic rape.

      I get what you are saying, but it's a tad more complex than that. "Psychic rape is forcing yourself and wishes upon someone's mind I guess. Or maybe even soul, but that's not what Emma did. Emma saved him, not respecting his wishes, and brought him back. Emma didn't do any forceful thing knowingly because she took a risk that would save Hook's life without being fully aware of what would happen.

      And I don't think someone could commit rape unaware of what they were doing. (Besides the heavy influence of drugs which isn't present in Emma.)

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      Emma saved him, not respecting his wishes, and brought him back. Emma didn't do any forceful thing knowingly because she took a risk that would save Hook's life without being fully aware of what would happen.

      Except, Emma did not save Hook. She comdemned him, to a fate worse than death. All she is did, was prolong the inevitable. By creating another Dark One, she will now have to pay the steepest price, if the Darkness is to be destroyed. That price is going Hook's life, because she refused to let him go. Emma is fighting a loosing battle, because she is challenging Fate itself.... she is just in denial. 

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    • CTrent29 wrote:
      I don't. What do you think Hook went through? Especially after he learned what Emma had done to him?


      Hold up. How is keeping someone alive in any way shape or form RAPE? Even if it was against his wishes, it wasn't SEX. So it's not RAPE.


      Rape does not always have to involve sex. Emma had inflicted the Dark One curse upon Hook against his will. Hook was prepared to die and instead of allowing him to do so in peace, Emma used Excalibur to curse him in order to keep him alive for her own selfish reasons. As far as I'm concerned, she had committed psychic rape.

      unlawful sexual activity and usually sexual intercourse carried out forcibly or under threat of injury against the will usually of a female or with a person who is beneath a certain age or incapable of valid consent 

      That's the definition given by Merriam-Webster, the authority on word definitions. So shut up about rape. It's a sensitive topic and a trigger, damn it.

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      Emma saved him, not respecting his wishes, and brought him back. Emma didn't do any forceful thing knowingly because she took a risk that would save Hook's life without being fully aware of what would happen.

      Except, Emma did not save Hook. She comdemned him, to a fate worse than death. All she is did, was prolong the inevitable. By creating another Dark One, she will now have to pay the steepest price, if the Darkness is to be destroyed. That price is going Hook's life, because she refused to let him go. Emma is fighting a loosing battle, because she is challenging Fate itself.... she is just in denial. 

      But Emma wasn't aware of that.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      CTrent29 wrote:
      I don't. What do you think Hook went through? Especially after he learned what Emma had done to him?


      Hold up. How is keeping someone alive in any way shape or form RAPE? Even if it was against his wishes, it wasn't SEX. So it's not RAPE.


      Rape does not always have to involve sex. Emma had inflicted the Dark One curse upon Hook against his will. Hook was prepared to die and instead of allowing him to do so in peace, Emma used Excalibur to curse him in order to keep him alive for her own selfish reasons. As far as I'm concerned, she had committed psychic rape.

      unlawful sexual activity and usually sexual intercourse carried out forcibly or under threat of injury against the will usually of a female or with a person who is beneath a certain age or incapable of valid consent 

      That's the definition given by Merriam-Webster, the authority on word definitions. So shut up about rape. It's a sensitive topic and a trigger, damn it.

      Let's stay calm. Ctrent is correct in part with the lesser known and archaic version of the definition of rape, but anyhow it's still not that.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      Emma saved him, not respecting his wishes, and brought him back. Emma didn't do any forceful thing knowingly because she took a risk that would save Hook's life without being fully aware of what would happen.

      Except, Emma did not save Hook. She comdemned him, to a fate worse than death. All she is did, was prolong the inevitable. By creating another Dark One, she will now have to pay the steepest price, if the Darkness is to be destroyed. That price is going Hook's life, because she refused to let him go. Emma is fighting a loosing battle, because she is challenging Fate itself.... she is just in denial. 
      But Emma wasn't aware of that.

      Something tells me, that Emma knows exactly what the price is. She always appears nervous, whenever Merlin is mentioned in Storybrooke. 

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      Emma saved him, not respecting his wishes, and brought him back. Emma didn't do any forceful thing knowingly because she took a risk that would save Hook's life without being fully aware of what would happen.

      Except, Emma did not save Hook. She comdemned him, to a fate worse than death. All she is did, was prolong the inevitable. By creating another Dark One, she will now have to pay the steepest price, if the Darkness is to be destroyed. That price is going Hook's life, because she refused to let him go. Emma is fighting a loosing battle, because she is challenging Fate itself.... she is just in denial. 
      But Emma wasn't aware of that.
      Something tells me, that Emma knows exactly what the price is. She always appears nervous, whenever Merlin is mentioned in Storybrooke. 

      I'm talking about when she saved Hook with Excalibur. I'm certain that she wasn't aware of what it would do to Hook.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      I'm talking about when she saved Hook with Excalibur. I'm certain that she wasn't aware of what it would do to Hook.

      Hook told Emma what it could do, she refused to listen. She was convinced that she could help him subdue the Darkness, when she was barely able do it herself. Honestly, she was just being cocky. If not for Hook; Emma would have killed Merida in the premiere, and transformed into the Dark Swan.

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    • Ok, It's going to be interesting, to say the least. I think that Emma knew perfectly well what would happen by tethering Hook. I think Regina even said that tethering Hook would make him a second dark one, and Emma's response was a tragic "I Don't Care!".  It was in this action that the Darkness completed it's hold on her (That was her price, and we see that at the end when she is transformed from the White gown and cape to the black leather). and Hook being shown coming from the vault of the dark one can only mean that he is tethered with the same darkness as Emma. and his lack of control over his anger is going to make him vulnerable to quickly going down the dark one path.

      Given some of the anger that we saw from Hook toward Merlin in the previous episode, I have a bad feeling about what is coming next. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Hmcooper4 wrote:

      Given some of the anger that we saw from Hook toward Merlin in the previous episode, I have a bad feeling about what is coming next. 

      Hook got the feeling that Merlin was withholding valuable information, and for fairly good reason. Merlin admitted to Hook, David, and Belle that his prophecies do not come true because of sheer luck. Meaning that he interferes with the events, to ensure they come to pass. If you look closely, Merlin was always acting odd around Hook.

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    • Whatever the motive for hooks feelings (and I agree that they were valid), there is no denying that the conversation between Hook and Merlin (in Nimue) was definitly more of the older pirate. In fact, it kinda had the same vibe as Killian had at the end of "Good Form" when he took command of the Jewel of the Empire and renamed her to the Jolly Roger.

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    • Hmcooper4 wrote:
      In fact, it kinda had the same vibe as Killian had at the end of "Good Form" when he took command of the Jewel of the Empire and renamed her to the Jolly Roger.

      You mean, when he channeled his inner Kevin Costner?

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    • I was rewatching this episode (again) and I have a question

      At the end we saw Hook becoming the Dark One through Hook's memories in the Dream Catcher

      But Hook was unconscious when Emma tethered his soul to Excalibur. So, how can he remember that? 

      And how can he remember Merlin saying "it's too late"? Hook was with Emma at that point

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    • 8Rob wrote:
      I was rewatching this episode (again) and I have a question

      At the end we saw Hook becoming the Dark One through Hook's memories in the Dream Catcher

      But Hook was unconscious when Emma tethered his soul to Excalibur. So, how can he remember that? 

      And how can he remember Merlin saying "it's too late"? Hook was is Emma at that point

      LOL, he only saw the stuff he was conscious for. The rest of the stuff was for the audience's benefit.

      Why would Violet's memories be presented as not being from her actual point of view when Pongo's was, when the same magic was used on his memories? Don't overthink it.

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    • Also when Hook was looking for the squid ink and stopped for a second to look at the picture, I thought for a second "has Emma hidden the ink in the picture?" and then I thought nah they did that trick before, oddly enough when the previous Dark One used it to write Emma's name over and over (irony, right?) but did anyone else think this before seeing the bottle stuck on the back of the picture or was it just me?

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    • Jordy267 wrote:
      Also when Hook was looking for the squid ink and stopped for a second to look at the picture, I thought for a second "has Emma hidden the ink in the picture?" and then I thought nah they did that trick before, oddly enough when the previous Dark One used it to write Emma's name over and over (irony, right?) but did anyone else think this before seeing the bottle stuck on the back of the picture or was it just me?

      Nah, I always thought it was behind a picture in a wall safe.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      Nah, I always thought it was behind a picture in a wall safe.

      That.... and Hook probably got a weird feeling of deja vu. The picture seems to be of the spot, where Arthur wounded him with Excalibur.

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    • Finally rewatched and I think I figured out what the writers and producers were going for with "How another Dark One was made".

      The Dark Swirly stuff is the magic of the Holy grail. The HG magic was not to be accessed by those without pure hearts. So, when the HG magic went into Hook, it immediately turned him into a Dark One simply because he has darkness within his heart, whereas Merlin's was full of light. I know it was colored black, but black doesn't mean Dark Magic as Light and Dark magic aren't distinguishable by colors as the default magic color is purple.

      Chances are the HG contained "terrible power" only to be wielded by one with a pure heart. Doesn't explain the vault and how the Jungle Dimension connects to everything, but there's a step!

      So, my theory is that the Dark swirly stuff isn't the Darkness of the collective Dark Ones, but the Holy Grail magic.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote: Finally rewatched and I think I figured out what the writers and producers were going for with "How another Dark One was made".

      The Dark Swirly stuff is the magic of the Holy grail. The HG magic was not to be accessed by those without pure hearts. So, when the HG magic went into Hook, it immediately turned him into a Dark One simply because he has darkness within his heart, whereas Merlin's was full of light. I know it was colored black, but black doesn't mean Dark Magic as Light and Dark magic aren't distinguishable by colors as the default magic color is purple.

      Chances are the HG contained "terrible power" only to be wielded by one with a pure heart. Doesn't explain the vault and how the Jungle Dimension connects to everything, but there's a step!

      So, my theory is that the Dark swirly stuff isn't the Darkness of the collective Dark Ones, but the Holy Grail magic.

      Well put. It made perfect sense. I knew there must be a side affect. I just couldn't translate or explain it well.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:
      Finally rewatched and I think I figured out what the writers and producers were going for with "How another Dark One was made".

      The Dark Swirly stuff is the magic of the Holy grail. The HG magic was not to be accessed by those without pure hearts. So, when the HG magic went into Hook, it immediately turned him into a Dark One simply because he has darkness within his heart, whereas Merlin's was full of light. I know it was colored black, but black doesn't mean Dark Magic as Light and Dark magic aren't distinguishable by colors as the default magic color is purple.

      Chances are the HG contained "terrible power" only to be wielded by one with a pure heart. Doesn't explain the vault and how the Jungle Dimension connects to everything, but there's a step!

      So, my theory is that the Dark swirly stuff isn't the Darkness of the collective Dark Ones, but the Holy Grail magic.

      Guess this makes sense. Nimue didn't immediately turn into the Dark One after drinking from the Holy Grail. It was when she crushed Vortigan's heart, therefore darkening her heart. Hook, however, already had darkness in his heart due to his years spent as a ruthless pirate seeking revenge. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • ItachiIshtar wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Finally rewatched and I think I figured out what the writers and producers were going for with "How another Dark One was made".

      The Dark Swirly stuff is the magic of the Holy grail. The HG magic was not to be accessed by those without pure hearts. So, when the HG magic went into Hook, it immediately turned him into a Dark One simply because he has darkness within his heart, whereas Merlin's was full of light. I know it was colored black, but black doesn't mean Dark Magic as Light and Dark magic aren't distinguishable by colors as the default magic color is purple.

      Chances are the HG contained "terrible power" only to be wielded by one with a pure heart. Doesn't explain the vault and how the Jungle Dimension connects to everything, but there's a step!

      So, my theory is that the Dark swirly stuff isn't the Darkness of the collective Dark Ones, but the Holy Grail magic.

      Guess this makes sense. Nimue didn't immediately turn into the Dark One after drinking from the Holy Grail. It was when she crushed Vortigan's heart, therefore darkening her heart. Hook, however, already had darkness in his heart due to his years spent as a ruthless pirate seeking revenge. 

      Also all Dark Ones had killed before becoming the Dark One, Nimue killed Vortigan, Emma killed Cruella, Hook killed at least his dad and probably others I can't think of, and all other Dark Ones killed the previous to take the power.  That would leave Merlin as the only person to have the Holy Grail magic and not kill anyone as well as the only on to hae it and not become a Dark One.  

      My theory for the vault is it is Nimue's grave or where she died and each new Dark One is taken to the plac where the powers transferred for the first time.  I think that when Nimue died and the powers transferred for the first time it was an unatural occurrence that caused a linkage between the Underworld, the Dark One, and the place tranference, thus creating the vault.  The linkage between the three is why a Dark One that has been killed can be brought from the Underworld through the vault and back to the this place.  

      Second theory is Nimue created it as a way to either try to untether her from the dagger or after realizing that the dagger could kill her as a way to try to remain immortal even after her death.  It was meant to be used to bring her back the way it did Rumple.

      Third (and final) theory is Merlin created it imprisoned Nimue in the vault because he couldn't kill her.  Nimue was either freed from the vault by someone or the second Dark One placed the dagger in the vault killing the Dark One and taking her power.  This also changed the magic on the vault from light magic to dark magic, changing th vault from a prison to a way of ressurection the Dark One as done with Rumple

      All three theories of the creation of the vault can use withmy theory of why Emma and Hook came out of the vault but Rumple didn't when he first becam the Dark One.  This theory is as follows: After Rumple was "reborn" from the vault it caused a greater connection between the Dark One and the vault resulting in each Dark One after him to be transported to and "reborn" from the vault as well.  

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Frulna wrote:

      All three theories of the creation of the vault can use withmy theory of why Emma and Hook came out of the vault but Rumple didn't when he first becam the Dark One.  This theory is as follows: After Rumple was "reborn" from the vault it caused a greater connection between the Dark One and the vault resulting in each Dark One after him to be transported to and "reborn" from the vault as well.  

      I assumed the reason why Emma and Hook came out of the vault, but not Rumple, was because they didn't become Dark Ones in the traditional manner. Aside from Nimue, Rumple and the other Dark Ones gained their power by killing the previous Dark One, transfering the power directly. However, Emma and Hook did not use the traditional method. 

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    • Who says Rumple didn't pop out of the vault> We saw his change start in season 1 but not all of it.

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    • Avatar Beta wrote:
      Who says Rumple didn't pop out of the vault> We saw his change start in season 1 but not all of it.

      Just an assumption. He didn't need to but we will never know. We'd assume he didn't as Nimue didn't go to the vault and just had her skin change.

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    • I would say that Nimue was the exception.  She obtained HG (Holy Grail) magic from drinking from the cup, then became the DO after killing Vortigan.  So the order of events was different.  I think that we can assume that all other DO's up to Emma became the dark one by killing the previous dark one and transferring the power. And all DO's after Nimue start life in the Vault of the Dark One, regardless of how they obtained the darkness.

      Another point is that Killian was a dark one, but he was tied to the HG magic from Merlin (as opposed to the darkness that decesnded from Nimue), and tethered with Excalibur, not the Dagger. So whatever rules (if there are rules) appear to emcompass all HG magic. 

      As for Rumple, my assumption is that he DID go to the vault.  He just accepted the darkness quickly because of his personal agenda, which was to protect Baelfire, and just *poofed* back to his home to complete his mission.

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    • From Tumblr:

      COD-Colin O'Donoghue

      W, W2, or whatever are Jerome Schwartz and David H. Goodman

      "W2: Here’s a little bit of setting up the squid ink that obviously we’ll see later. We’ll see Hook use. But also behind the curtain there, there had been a little bit more to do with that snow globe you see at the top of the scene. We had written that Gold had created kind of a Dark One detector to try to know when Emma was coming, and the idea was that it goes off here, and Hook thinks that Emma is outside, but we all know on second viewing that it was because Hook himself was a Dark One and walked in. Ultimately, once it got shot, it didn’t really play, but it’s funny, you can see in the exterior shot, when Hook goes outside, you can see him holding the snow globe in his hand, and it’s not something you’d ever really notice otherwise, but it’s a little bit of a hanging chad from something we ended up having to cut out of the show.

      W: Yeah, I was wondering if people would notice him holding that snow globe and ask about it, and on Twitter, they definitely did. What’s going on with that snow globe?

      COD: Oh, did they?

      W: We thought it would be great on second viewing, but then on first viewing, it didn’t make that much sense.

      COD: [laughing]

      COD: It’s a shame, though, because I actually—it is one thing that I actually remember thinking about that scene that you kind of don’t know.

      W: We’re glad you liked it, because we did too. And many things we like, sometimes, it doesn’t work.

      COD: Yeah.

      W2: And now fans that are listening to this can judge if they like that idea or not.

      COD: Instead it just looks like Hook, he felt the need to pick that up. "

      So yeah, the Snow globe was indeed a Dark One detector....which is sort of weird that Rumple would have one when he was the only Dark One during his tenure. Guess that's why they cut that scene (also for time) out of the episode.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • A Spy in the Mirror
        Preparing Editor Spell
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