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  • Ok, so in 5x12 Rumple had Maleficent, Cruella, and Ursula still the Dark Curse for him, so if Rumple did not create the Dark Curse then who did and why? Or is it that he DID create it, but the Apprentince stole it to prevent it from being casted and had the Chernabog guard it? 

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    • the dark curse is pointless if you have the slipper or a door.

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    • A wizard did it.

      Well, the chernabog was described as an ancient demon.....

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    • My theory is Merlin made it and used the Chernabog as a guard dog for it. I don't think he made it to be a dark curse, I think Rumple tweaked it to be used for Regina's dark plans.

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    • I bet on Hades.

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    • I thought the Dark Curse was created when Nimue drank from the Holy Grail and then committed murder.

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    • CTrent29 wrote:
      I thought the Dark Curse was created when Nimue drank from the Holy Grail and then committed murder.

      No, we're not talking about the curse of the Dark One, we're talking about the curse that Regina casted that brought everyone to Storybrooke and started the entire show 

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    • Oh, I see. That is a good question.

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    • That episode was weak. I mean, every other season implied Rumple made the curse and he even said he made it at least once. Plus, it makes it sound like he spent the centuries just waiting for the "queens of Darkness" to be born. Surely there were other villains in the EF he could've recruited before them if  all he needed was bait for the Chernabog. 

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    • There was some specificness in why he needed Mal, Ursula, and Cruella. They were able to get through the challenges; Cruella spoke to the beetles, Mal with the dragon fire, and Ursula... well, she grabbed the curse off the pedestal. But still.

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    • DatNuttyKid wrote:
      There was some specificness in why he needed Mal, Ursula, and Cruella. They were able to get through the challenges; Cruella spoke to the beetles, Mal with the dragon fire, and Ursula... well, she grabbed the curse off the pedestal. But still.

      Rumple is an immortal sorcerer who's more powerful than the three of them combined (Pending on Ursula's stolen trident powers). Rumple could find away to move the beetles, even if they were toxic to magical beings. Rumple probably could walk over the fire, then grab the curse and move on. Of as they never explained, he could poof to the curse and then poof out.

      But we don't know who made it and I'm now doubting that Merlin made it. Merlin made some largely weird things (that can be used for evil and good, but mostly evil purposes), but I'm thinking he didn't make the Curse.

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    • Why, other than for story purposes, he needed Mal, Cru, and Ursula is unclear.

      I am suspecting that the room that held the dark curse was *POOF* proof, though. Even Rumple's magic could not break that one.

      And though Rumple is immortal (as the Dark one), his body (as we have learned) is not. It could not be harmed by normal methods, but I am betting that someone, particularly someone familiar with how the Dark One works, could easily develop counters that would harm the current DO host body.

      If all of that is the case, then the choices start to make a lot more sense. multiple obstacles that would require cooperation to overcome (something that is usually not found in villians).

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    • Seems like Merlin was familari with the Dark Curse. He may have been making the DC in his cauldron (which would have been weird), but for me, it seems like he did not make it.

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    • I also thought it interesting that Hook could use Merlin's cauldron (that he used for his 'voice mail' message) as the Dark Curse.  Although maybe a cauldron full of the ingrediants (or similar) minus the heart is necessary to generate a message that could be accessible from across realms.

      But i get the feeling that the DC itself predates even Merlin.

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    • Hmcooper4 wrote:
      I also thought it interesting that Hook could use Merlin's cauldron (that he used for his 'voice mail' message) as the Dark Curse.  Although maybe a cauldron full of the ingrediants (or similar) minus the heart is necessary to generate a message that could be accessible from across realms.

      But i get the feeling that the DC itself predates even Merlin.

      Yeah, I think Hook simply got the ingredients when Emma couldn't find him for that brief period of time and Dark Rumple knows the ingredients.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      Hmcooper4 wrote:
      I also thought it interesting that Hook could use Merlin's cauldron (that he used for his 'voice mail' message) as the Dark Curse.  Although maybe a cauldron full of the ingrediants (or similar) minus the heart is necessary to generate a message that could be accessible from across realms.

      But i get the feeling that the DC itself predates even Merlin.

      Yeah, I think Hook simply got the ingredients when Emma couldn't find him for that brief period of time and Dark Rumple knows the ingredients.

      The interesting thing is, everything is playing out how Merlin intended. He said, Nimue was the only one who could destory the Darkness. Gold's blood was needed to summon her, from the Underworld. 

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    • Merlin does seem to be masterminding the whole thing, doesn't he?  However, that is a different topic for another thread.

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    • Watching 1x22 again and Rumple specifically said that he created the curse. It is just another retconing and we do is making excuses for the show.

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    • Farerb wrote:
      Watching 1x22 again and Rumple specifically said that he created the curse. It is just another retconing and we do is making excuses for the show.

      Because he created it lol. Think like this. A carpenter takes some planks from wholesaler. But in the end, it is carpenter who creates a table, chair or whatever. I don't know why everyone complains about that 

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    • CadoDoan wrote:
      Farerb wrote:
      Watching 1x22 again and Rumple specifically said that he created the curse. It is just another retconing and we do is making excuses for the show.
      Because he created it lol. Think like this. A carpenter takes some planks from wholesaler. But in the end, it is carpenter who creates a table, chair or whatever. I don't know why everyone complains about that 

      Create is different from manufacture. I would say that Regina manufactured the Curse, while Rumple just got the plans to it from whoever created it and put it there to be protected by the Chernabog and the other stuff.

      Still retcons Rumple having done anything beyond snatch it, though. Oh well.

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    • Unless the DC was created by one of the earlier Dark Ones.  Since the current Dark One has all of the knowledge from previous Dark Ones, an argument could be made that the Dark One created the curse, and Rumple (who was the Dark One at the time he found the curse) could legitimately claim the creation.

      However, we still know nothing of the DC at this point.

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    • Avatar Beta wrote:
      That episode was weak. I mean, every other season implied Rumple made the curse and he even said he made it at least once. Plus, it makes it sound like he spent the centuries just waiting for the "queens of Darkness" to be born. Surely there were other villains in the EF he could've recruited before them if  all he needed was bait for the Chernabog. 

      Actually, didn't the blue fairy tell rumple about the dark curse? He couldn't have created it if he didn't know of its existence, and as HmCooper4 said, I do believe the dark curse predates Merlin. Perhaps not Reul Ghorm, but Merlin.

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    • Agent es wrote:
      Avatar Beta wrote:
      That episode was weak. I mean, every other season implied Rumple made the curse and he even said he made it at least once. Plus, it makes it sound like he spent the centuries just waiting for the "queens of Darkness" to be born. Surely there were other villains in the EF he could've recruited before them if  all he needed was bait for the Chernabog. 
      Actually, didn't the blue fairy tell rumple about the dark curse? He couldn't have created it if he didn't know of its existence, and as HmCooper4 said, I do believe the dark curse predates Merlin. Perhaps not Reul Ghorm, but Merlin.

      Well, I had been thinking that perhaps Nimue created it, since she was the first Dark One, and then also created the Chernabog to guard, but I could perhaps see it predating Nimue and Merlin, as well.

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    • Arctucrus wrote:
      CadoDoan wrote:
      Farerb wrote:
      Watching 1x22 again and Rumple specifically said that he created the curse. It is just another retconing and we do is making excuses for the show.
      Because he created it lol. Think like this. A carpenter takes some planks from wholesaler. But in the end, it is carpenter who creates a table, chair or whatever. I don't know why everyone complains about that 
      Create is different from manufacture. I would say that Regina manufactured the Curse, while Rumple just got the plans to it from whoever created it and put it there to be protected by the Chernabog and the other stuff.

      Still retcons Rumple having done anything beyond snatch it, though. Oh well.

      I don't see it as a retcon at all, not anymore than any flashback is techinically retroactive continuity. From the moment the Blue Fairy told Rumplestiltskin about the curse, I immediately imagined that the way he got his hands on the curse was in a similar manner portrayed in "Darkness on the Edge of Town." But I do believe he did more than merely "snatch it," since it was he who wove Snow and Charming's true love into the curse, so that Emma could break it; that's not a general quality of the curse, as Gold mentions in "Going Home" when describing Pan's curse.

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    • I do hope the dark curse creator will be revealed by the end of the series. 

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    • Rumple did not create the DC. The DC was already in exitence before Rumple became the DO. I believe the creator of the curse was Merlin or Nimue perhaps. But the curse that was created was the very basic version of the curse. The curse possibly had a very different effect in this stage, it prob sent you to another world and probably altered memories but that is possibly all. Rumple aquired the DC and altered it. He needed it to take him to a specific world and he knew he needed to create a failsafe so the curse can be broken so he can find his son. Which he does seem to have added to the curse. He clearly changes the curse to suit his needs, and more specificially it needed to meet Regina's needs. So he may not have specifically created the DC but he made all the neccessary changes that made the DC so dangerous and epic so he can defo use the claim that he created the curse. 

      However before he could set up his plan to trick Regina into finding away to send Snow and Charmig to another world so she could hurt them, the DC was stolen from him by either Merlin or the Apprentice and placed it in the chamber and they put unusual obstcles in the way that needed specific skills to get around (like the chamber of secretes in Harry Potter). 

      He needed Mal, Ursula and Cruella to get past these obstcles because as Hmcooper4 mentioned the place is possibly DO proof and defo poof proof. 

      I would also like to mention the curse effects seems so different since the original one was cast. I mean it never changes memories, never stops time, never creates a new Storybook and never needs a 28 year savior return. It also seems to have a different smoke colour, sometimes its grey, sometimes purple and even green. Weird. The only connection each curse has is the heart of the person you love most. I mean the original DC needed the hair of the most evil creatures, even though no Mal, no hair frm Ursula, no hair from Rumple, or the blind witch (gingerbread one). Its so inconsistant, when you stop and think about it. 

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    • I'd say it's probably the Black Fairy. Most of the cast agree she is the biggest big bad.

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    • Who CREATED the Dark Curse? Black Fairy

      Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtKJ1lxMx70

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    • The origin is SO inconsistent. Here is a quote from "Queen of Hearts"

      Emma: You created the curse, Gold. You made me the Savior. So everything I've ever done, it's exactly what you wanted me to do.

      Mr. Gold: I created the curse, dearie, but I didn't make you. I merely took advantage of what you are - the product of true love. That's why you're powerful. And everything you've done, you've done yourself.

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    • Rumple created the curse as in he manufactured it from its original form to include a Savior.

      The origin post season 3 has been consistent that Rumple merely found the base spell then changed it from there. So, retconned, but not that inconsistent. Seasons 1-3 it was simply believed to be Rumple. Seasons 4-6 said it wasn't Rumple.

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    • Eskaver
      Eskaver removed this reply because:
      offtopic
      15:27, April 11, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • The Dark Curse was created by, Fiona, the Black Fairy

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    • From what I understand now, the Black Fairy made the Dark Curse, and it's original intent was to banish every child to a Land Without Magic. When Rumple says he "made" it, it means he created Storybrooke and changed the targer of the curse, to everyone in the realm. I would like to know how the curse got into Bald Mountain, and who made the newest curse (and how does it work - did Hyperion Heights exist before, or did the curse create it,? etc.)

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    • Lola987 wrote:
      From what I understand now, the Black Fairy made the Dark Curse, and it's original intent was to banish every child to a Land Without Magic. When Rumple says he "made" it, it means he created Storybrooke and changed the targer of the curse, to everyone in the realm. I would like to know how the curse got into Bald Mountain, and who made the newest curse (and how does it work - did Hyperion Heights exist before, or did the curse create it,? etc.)

      Part of the issue is the "what does what". We don't know what the two original spells did. From Fiona's wording and implications about SB, the spell would banish those of her choosing to a specialized place in the LWM.

      I don't think Rumple did much with the curse besides adding the safety net and guiding Regina to creating false identities, with Regina adding the failsafe on her own.

      I think the Fairies placed the curse in Bald Mountain, probably outsourced the job because I don't see Blue going through all that work with poisonous bugs, dragon fire, and Chernabog.

      The newet curse as far as I think is one of two things: Wish Queen's curse (as the curse scroll would still exist and she was banished somewhere); or created by the Coven. I think it's likely the first one.

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    • A Spy in the Mirror
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