she just has history.no telling if she would love her baby.*thoughts*
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Thank you King ^ bad person a bad parent does not make. Regina raised Henry and he grew up to be the next author. She was a strict mother but she did love him and she did want what was best for him. Rumple is the Dark One but he was strong enough to avoid killing Henry and even went as far as sacrifcing himself to stop Peter Pan. Maleficent has more Darkness than even regina and after she found Lily she didn't care about anything except Lily.
Regina is a murderer, bitter, manipulator, liar and even Henry himself thought she didn't love him in season 1. But she did and he turned out fine. She didn't physically abuse him and made sure he had a work before pleasure attitude.
Robin Hood on the other hand, was constantly endangering his son wirth his vigilante bullcrap and even had the nerve to sneak around the Dark One's house. What about Snow and David? Don't even get me started on their passive agrressive supercilous attitudes.
Regina has Henry and Robin Hood has Nolan. Why can't Zelena have her baby?
(Edited by Trainer Green)
Kingfan22 wrote:
ROSSELLA1 wrote:
I don't know where your getting your facts but from personal experience it's not true. My grandpa was a horrible man. He cheated on my grandma until he physically couldn't, he brags about how big and bad he was in his younger days, and to top it all off he was convicted of rape. Even though he did all those things, the man was one of the greatest fathers I have ever known. He basically took care of all my grandma's nieces and nephews. He also took care of who ever wasn't on their feet in my family. He was loving and caring to his kids and nieces and nephews. He always put us first. I love that man and I would die for him. Nothing you say about his morals and how he didn't deserve to be a parent changes the fact that he was a great father, grandfather, and the greatest thing to happen to my family.
Kingfan22 wrote:
Just because their family loves them doesn't make them good parents. Children of abusive parents still love their parents, it's just complicated. They love their parents because they're their parents and there are good times. But they're often angry or sad at them because there are loads of bad times to go with the good times and, even if the bad times are slim, the ultimate one was finding out the parent wasn't just a jerk, but a criminal. Actually, there aren't that many murderers, rapists, etc. who have good family lives. The idea that "bad people can be good family members/friends" comes from a romanticized view of criminals that tv gives off. In the real world, most of the characteristics of a "noble thief" don't hold up.Even when things seem okay, scratch beneath the surface and it's not. Phillip Craig Garrido claimed to love the children he had had by raping Jaycee Dugard. He never hit them. He also didn't tell them who their real mother was, had them live in the back yard, refused to let them go to public schools, and isolated them from teh world. Keith Hunter Jesperson was a doting, if sometimes absent father. He'd take his kids on shopping sprees and buy them whatever they needed or wanted. He also would snap at a moments notice, screaming at his children for 'making' him buy them things and killing the family pets and neighborhood cats. RIchard Kuklinski, hitman for the mob, doted on his daughters. Didn't stop him from telling his favorite daughter that he might have to kill her instead of allowing the family to be torn apart. They're not always violent, but for every 1 in a million that manages to put on a facade around their family 24/7, there're hundreds more who are abusive in some way. For further examples, I suggest your research criminology.
ROSSELLA1 wrote:
The thing is though, having a child because she knows the child will love her doesn't take into accound that she can't control a child. Normal parents might be hurt when a child gets angry at them and screams that he/she hates them, but they look past it, knowing that children often say things they don't mean. When the child rebels because he/she wants to lead his/her own life, normal parents get angry and frustrated, they might ground the child, but they realize that's part of a child growing up. Zelena? I don't think she's capable of viewing a child through a developmental perspective. The first time the three year old can't get a toy he/she wants and tells her he/she hates her? Zelena would go green again and who's to say she wouldn't take it out on her child. She's shown that she's selfish and constantly manipulates things to get her way, even if she needs to trample on the rights of others to get it. During those terrible teen years when her son or daughter sneaks out? Maybe a week as a rabbit would be what she'd use instead of grounding her kid.
Your whole opinion depends on the ideology that bad people are bad parents and that's not true. There are plenty of murders, rapists, bank robbers, and con artists that have loving families. That's one of the most inaccurate world portrayals this show does. Do you know how many mobsters that get caught and have their families in court crying because their father/ husband is going to jail. Rowland lived with her while she playing his mother and nothing happened to him so what will happen to her real child? I really just feel like people are making excuses for Regina because they like her. This situation should have nothing to do with Regina. Robin is a grown man and needs to deal with his baby momma. Regina is a girlfriend not a wife her opinion means nothingTrainer Green wrote:
Naturally having someone she knows will love her would change her. I feel like Zelelna returning to Oz as a ruler and being with a loved one aka her child is her happy ending. I understand how Regina wants Robin to be a part of his second child's life but I think they should just let Regina have her child and be on her way. I really can't think of any real reason Zelena should be forced to stick around considering she is pregnant with a rape baby that will only cause more drama after it's born. I mean promoting her to a series regular just to have her do these 5 min scnes per episode? Smh
Naturally having someone she knows will love her would change her. I feel like Zelelna returning to Oz as a ruler and being with a loved one aka her child is her happy ending. I understand how Regina wants Robin to be a part of his second child's life but I think they should just let Regina have her child and be on her way. I really can't think of any real reason Zelena should be forced to stick around considering she is pregnant with a rape baby that will only cause more drama after it's born. I mean promoting her to a series regular just to have her do these 5 min scnes per episode? Smh
The thing is though, having a child because she knows the child will love her doesn't take into accound that she can't control a child. Normal parents might be hurt when a child gets angry at them and screams that he/she hates them, but they look past it, knowing that children often say things they don't mean. When the child rebels because he/she wants to lead his/her own life, normal parents get angry and frustrated, they might ground the child, but they realize that's part of a child growing up. Zelena? I don't think she's capable of viewing a child through a developmental perspective. The first time the three year old can't get a toy he/she wants and tells her he/she hates her? Zelena would go green again and who's to say she wouldn't take it out on her child. She's shown that she's selfish and constantly manipulates things to get her way, even if she needs to trample on the rights of others to get it. During those terrible teen years when her son or daughter sneaks out? Maybe a week as a rabbit would be what she'd use instead of grounding her kid.
As for ruler of Oz...her happy ending, the munchkin's nightmare.
I get what you're saying, but, unless they kill her or just have her in a jail cell off screen, she's going to come back. Zelena wouldn't just let Regina or Robin take her child (even if it is justified) and send her away. Eventually she'd find a way back and then...
Except now he has to deal with the idea that the woman who tucked him in at night murdered his real mother. Zelena was with them for a relatively short period fo time and she was on her best behavior to hide who she was. Could she keep it up for years and years? I don' think so.
As for Regina, I make no excuses for her. She has shown more of a dedication towards reforming than Zelena ever has, but that doesn't erase what she's done and I don't think she should have a child. However, that was in reply to TrainerGreen's idea that Regina and Robin should have the baby. It's justified that Robin should have the baby. Regina, like it or not, is with Robin, who has dedicated himself to a relationship with her. Legally, Regina means nothing. However, she is going to be around for awhile so, if Robin gets the baby, Regina's going to have a big role in the child's life. Just because she wouldn't technically be a stepmother, doesn't mean she's going to have nothing to do with the child.
Robin's "baby momma" is his rapist. He doesn't have to deal with her anymore than he wants to. Laws may vary but rapists have no moral right to make decisions about a child they have with their victim. If Robin wants to take the child away from Zelena, then he has that right.
I know to many bad people that are great parents for you to convince me to believe this black and white ideology.
Roland doesn't remember that time because Regina erased his memories. My point is Zelena spent 6 weeks as Roland's mom and he was fine. No emotional or physical abuse.
While there are exceptions, most don't make great parents. My sources are books, articles, and reports. Unless trials are pending, most of the information available about serial killers and rapists is public knowledge. Lots of times their family members write books or contribute to books/articles about them. You don't have to agree with me, but I urge you to research criminology. As you go through the rapists and murderers and serial killers that have family, start making a list of the ones that didn't abuse their children in some way. If you find the unabusive ones outweigh the abusive ones, we can compare notes and I'll admit you're right. Otherwise, we're destined to argue over this forever.
Bad people. Let's be clear we're talking about the same definition of bad people here. When I say bad people, I'm talking about serial killers, rapists, and other people who continually demonstrate a disrespect and complete disregard for others and their rights. This is very different from nonviolent offenders.
She shoudln't have had to, but yes, I suppose if Regina erased his memory, then Roland wouldn't have the emotional trauma. However, Zelena wasn't around Henry even an hour before she tried to kill him, patiently waited 9 months just so she could sacrifice baby Neal to a portal, and threatened Aurora and Philip's unborn child. She doesn't have a great track record around children.
(Edited by ROSSELLA1)
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Just remeber guys, this is a fantasy show, not real life. So far, we have rapist-mass murder, rebel kidnappers, and woman with a troubled path being adequate parents, so I wouldn't worry about the crazy person.
(Edited by Eskaver)
Trainer Green wrote:
Thank you King ^ bad person a bad parent does not make. Regina raised Henry and he grew up to be the next author. She was a strict mother but she did love him and she did want what was best for him. Rumple is the Dark One but he was strong enough to avoid killing Henry and even went as far as sacrifcing himself to stop Peter Pan. Maleficent has more Darkness than even regina and after she found Lily she didn't care about anything except Lily.
Thank you King ^ bad person a bad parent does not make. Regina raised Henry and he grew up to be the next author. She was a strict mother but she did love him and she did want what was best for him. Rumple is the Dark One but he was strong enough to avoid killing Henry and even went as far as sacrifcing himself to stop Peter Pan. Maleficent has more Darkness than even regina and after she found Lily she didn't care about anything except Lily.
Regina is a murderer, bitter, manipulator, liar and even Henry himself thought she didn't love him in season 1. But she did and he turned out fine. She didn't physically abuse him and made sure he had a work before pleasure attitude.
Robin Hood on the other hand, was constantly endangering his son wirth his vigilante bullcrap and even had the nerve to sneak around the Dark One's house. What about Snow and David? Don't even get me started on their passive agrressive supercilous attitudes.
Regina has Henry and Robin Hood has Nolan. Why can't Zelena have her baby?
Regina may have loved Henry but she gaslighted him, made other people think he was crazy, and, when that wasn't enough to keep him in the dark and to herself, tried to murder his birth mother. That is not physical abuse but it is psychological abuse and that is just as bad.
Rumple did try to kill Henry but was interrupted by Snow, Charming, and Emma. The normal parent/grandparent tries to kill their child/grandchild 0 times. Even when he decided not to kill him, he was going to step back and allow the rest of Henry's family to die so Rumple himself could be a psuedo parent to Henry. We have no evidence about Maleficent's parenting skills. Loving or caring about someone doesn't mean you won't abuse them. Many abusive parents do love/care about their children in whatever way they're capable of, but that doesn't stop them from abusing them. Sometimes, in their mind, they don't even view it as abuse.
Robin's not the ideal parent, I'll give you that. Putting Roland at risk, though... I don't remember a whole lot of specific times. The shadow thing in the Neverland arc is the only time that specifically comes to mind. I'd need to rewatch the episode, but I believe that was because there was no other way to get Neal to Neverland, which was needed in order to save Henry and Emma and Co. It wasn't a great situation and in normal circumstances Robin would be a horrible parent for letting it happen. However, those weren't normal circumstances, several lives were on the line, and he did take precautions to make sure that, at least if it had to be done, there were people to make sure things didn't go south. If there are other times you're thinking of, then elaborate.
Snow and Charming are only the baby's cousins through marriage, so I don't think you need to worry about them getting custody.
Zelena can't have her baby because she's never shown a desire to reform. The closest was when she joined the coven and that was for all of five seconds. She wants her happy ending but doesn't care whose lives she wrecks (and often tries to end) to get it. A parent needs to put his/her child above his/herself. She's never done that for anyone.
(Edited by ROSSELLA1)
Eskaver wrote:
Just remeber guys, this is a fantasy show, not real life. So far, we have rapist-mass murder, rebel kidnappers, and woman with a troubled path being adequate parents, so I wouldn't worry about the crazy person.
Just remeber guys, this is a fantasy show, not real life. So far, we have rapist-mass murder, rebel kidnappers, and woman with a troubled path being adequate parents, so I wouldn't worry about the crazy person.
Okay.
(Edited by ROSSELLA1)
CTrent29 wrote:
to be fiar,snowing doesnt no the baby is human:)
to be fiar,snowing doesnt no the baby is human:)
What does the baby's species have to do with anything? What? We're only supposed to be outraged if Maleficent's baby wasn't human?
Maleficent was a sentient being. Snow and David took her child. And they thought they had the right to do it, because they didn't view the baby or her as "human". This is a ripe case of human arrogance.
True. Also, they should have known that the baby would also have a human form like its mother.
(Edited by TrumpetofTheSwan)
TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:
CTrent29 wrote:
to be fiar,snowing doesnt no the baby is human:)
to be fiar,snowing doesnt no the baby is human:)
What does the baby's species have to do with anything? What? We're only supposed to be outraged if Maleficent's baby wasn't human?
Maleficent was a sentient being. Snow and David took her child. And they thought they had the right to do it, because they didn't view the baby or her as "human". This is a ripe case of human arrogance.
True. Also, they should have known that the baby would also have a human form like its mother.
To be fair, no human baby hatches from an egg. It still doesn't justify what Snow and Charming did though.
(Edited by M.J. Daniels)
Regina may have loved Henry but she gaslighted him, made other people think he was crazy, and, when that wasn't enough to keep him in the dark and to herself, tried to murder his birth mother. That is not physical abuse but it is psychological abuse and that is just as bad.
Everyone, including Emma, thought Henry was mentally disturbed anyway, because he kept talking about the Curse and their true identities. Yes, Regina did gaslight him. Emma tried to do the same in late Season 3 by maintaining his amnesia and lying to him in order to ensure she can drag him back to New York City and resume their fantasy life, following Zelena's defeat. Snow and David lied to Emma, fearful of how she would react to their kidnapping of an unborn Lily.
Yet, overall, all of them proved to be decent parents. I have no problems with Zelena wanting to raise her child in Oz. But I have no sympathy toward her situation because she became pregnant in the first place due to her rape of Robin via deceit, and her lack of remorse of her actions.
(Edited by CTrent29)
CTrent29 wrote:
Everyone gets their remorse in their own ways.Maybe it just dont happen to Zelena.
Ok,fine.Let's give her a try.No one in ouat is not psychologically dysfuntionl.):
(Edited by Joshleung)
CTrent29 wrote:
Regina may have loved Henry but she gaslighted him, made other people think he was crazy, and, when that wasn't enough to keep him in the dark and to herself, tried to murder his birth mother. That is not physical abuse but it is psychological abuse and that is just as bad.
Regina may have loved Henry but she gaslighted him, made other people think he was crazy, and, when that wasn't enough to keep him in the dark and to herself, tried to murder his birth mother. That is not physical abuse but it is psychological abuse and that is just as bad.
Everyone, including Emma, thought Henry was mentally disturbed anyway, because he kept talking about the Curse and their true identities. Yes, Regina did gaslight him. Emma tried to do the same in late Season 3 by maintaining his amnesia and lying to him in order to ensure she can drag him back to New York City and resume their fantasy life, following Zelena's defeat. Snow and David lied to Emma, fearful of how she would react to their kidnapping of an unborn Lily.
Yet, overall, all of them proved to be decent parents. I have no problems with Zelena wanting to raise her child in Oz. But I have no sympathy toward her situation because she became pregnant in the first place due to her rape of Robin via deceit, and her lack of remorse of her actions.
The difference is that Regina knew Henry wasn't crazy and made him think he was anyway. The others had every reason to believe Henry was crazy because the curse (which, again, was all Regina's fault) had erased their memories of magic and had resulted in Emma being raised without magic.
No, Emma didn't try to do the same thing. The amnesia was already in place and they didn't know how to cure it. She might have wanted it to continue to give him a better and safer life, but she didn't actively fight trying to cure it. Yes, she lied to him. However, there's a difference between lying to someone to make them think they're crazy and lying to someone because they won't believe the truth and to try to keep them safe. In Emma's case, part of the reason she wanted Henry not to remember was because it was safer in New York, without monsters attacking them every week, and it would be easier for him to live there without Also, I don't think there's ever been a situation quite like Henry's. It's always difficult when dealing with loved ones with amnesia because, on one-hand, you want them to remember, on the other hand, you need to be careful to let them remember and not merely 'remember' the moments because you told them about it so many times it feels like a memory. With Henry, magic was the truth, but the amnesia had him not believing in magic. It's one thing for an amnesia victim to hear about a life that doesn't quite seem like his own. It's another for one to hear about a life that doesn't seem like his own and is rooted in a whole other reality. Henry could have thought everyone around him was crazy, have started questioning his own sanity, or end up not really remembering but thinking he remembered because he was told the stories so many time. Emma doesn't actively stop him from remembering because she's busy trying to save him and Storybrooke. She does debate what's best, but she tells him what she's able to tell him without traumatizing him or putting him in danger and, in the end, does find a way to help him remember. This is very different than Regina, who actively tried to make Henry think he was crazy, not so he would be safe, but because she didn't want the world where only she was happy to end.
With Snow and Charming, yes, they lied to Emma. That's not the same as psychologically abusing.
(Edited by ROSSELLA1)