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  • Utter solitude
    Utter solitude closed this thread because:
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    16:45, April 23, 2015

    https://twitter.com/AdamHorowitzLA/status/564479959847022593

    LOL, this is gonna be bloody amazing. I'm getting a "It's not easy being green" vibe from the title.

    Just a guess: dalmatians killed her family?

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    • Sympathy for the Devil... well the devil is also just doing his work as ruler of Hell, right?

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    • This may be the best episode title yet! I love it!

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      This may be the best episode title yet! I love it!


      I completely agree with you. This title rocks so much :D

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    • Yes, totally the best on yet! Enter the dragon, Best Laid Plans are both great titles, but this takes the cake, cookies, and ice cream. No wonder Smurfit loved the script, just look at the title. Plus, I saw a game commentary where someone kept calling a boss, Sympathy for the Devil.

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    • Lady Junky wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      This may be the best episode title yet! I love it!

      I completely agree with you. This title rocks so much :D

      There is no way OUaT will be able to top this title.... it is that brilliant!!!!

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    • awesome title. very "It's Not Easy Being Green". this could be my favourite episode of 4B (maybe with the Maleficent episodes) or out of season 4 (trying to top Fall). hopefully they can get the actress for Anita from Child of the Moon and we have a winner.

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    • Well since of the 3 evil coachses I'm on team Curella, I eagerly await this ep.

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    • I agree, this is an amazing title, and I can't wait.

      Though my first thought when I saw the title was the Rolling Stones.

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    • Well at least we know 4x18 is Cruella centric. Usually, epeisode 18 is when we find a characters backstory and it is really emotional e.g. Regina ain "The Stable Boy" and Cora in "Bleeding Through". Can't Wait.

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    • Hope that Cruella isn't the first to die

      And hope that Red and Anita will appear too

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    • Gusey1397 wrote:
      Usually, epeisode 18 is when we find a characters backstory and it is really emotional e.g. Regina ain "The Stable Boy" and Cora in "Bleeding Through". Can't Wait.

      2.18 gave us Selfless, Brave, and True.... a.k.a. the worst OUaT episode ever.

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Gusey1397 wrote:
      Usually, epeisode 18 is when we find a characters backstory and it is really emotional e.g. Regina ain "The Stable Boy" and Cora in "Bleeding Through". Can't Wait.
      2.18 gave us Selfless, Brave, and True.... a.k.a. the worst OUaT episode ever.

      NO WAY.

      Selfless, Brave and True is way better than Child of the Moon, Lacey or The Tower, just to name a few XD

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    • Best title ever indeed! Can't wait for more Cruella as she is the one that intrigues me the most out of the three. Anita and Red please please be connected to Cruella somehow. 

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    • I hate the title of this episode, so I guess I'm in the minority. I get the reference, but the title just doesn't drip off the tongue. It has a terrible flow, and is one of my least favorite titles of Once for that reason. Other titles I hate include "Ariel", "And They Lived...", "White Out", "The Jolly Roger", "Lacey", "Who's Alice?" and "Queen of Hearts", all of them for a variety of reasons.

      I agree that 2.18 is at least one of the worst episodes of the whole series. 2.19 sucks as well. 3.14 is underrated. 2.07 was pretty great... I think the worst episode might just be 4.06, which was idiotic from start to finish, nothing about it worked.

      Anyway, I'm surprised Cruella gets a centric episode that late in the game, but pleased, it would probably be contrived if all the villainesses got theirs in a row, and this is probably just how the story worked out for the writers. I like the placing. I am wary of the Queens of Darkness, still have some reservations, but I have to admit that I am curious as to what they cooked up for them, especially Cruella. I hope Archie and Pongo factor into this episode, and, yes, if Red and Anita (and Granny) could be a part of Cruella's backstory, that'd be awesome, but I doubt they are.

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    • 406 sucks too

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    • Wow, everyone's really hating on some of the episodes. I could never hate any of the episodes. Sure, some aren't as amazing as others, but the point is you need them all to tell a complete story. Think of them as chapters in a book, not every chapter has the same awesomeness, but together they make the book awesome.

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    • I try to think like that, in a "the more you know" kind of way. Or at least I did, before 4.06. Let me explain how. You see, there are many things about the characters that I still want to know. For example, I wanna see how Snowing and the others took back the kingdom, how Red and Granny reunited after the events of 2.07's flashes, what Frankenstein did after he couldn't kill his brother, how Will wound up in Storybrooke both times, how Tink ended up in Neverland in the first place, why the Blind Witch in the gingerbread house had the apple and why that apple was so special anyway... There are many unanswered questions in the series, some of whom I believe will never actually be answered, cos either the writers just forgot about them or they never meant to provide too much insight on them anyway. So it's disheartening for me when we get episodes that don't answer any actual questions, they just tell stories made up for that specific episode that don't feel like pieces of the puzzle, they're just there. Like Snow and Charming's run-in with Medusa in 3.10, or all of those episodes that show moments shared between Rumbelle that fit in the over-arching story of 1.12 (2.19, 3.11, and even 4.11). But before 4.06, I always thought, "hey, whatever, the more you know". Like, I never asked myself "how did Hook become a pirate?". I never wondered about that. We found that out, however, in 3.05, and I didn't mind knowing it. The more you know. But, thing is, I also never really wondered what happened to Belle's mother, especially since the character isn't known for having a mother in the traditional fairytale or in the Disney movie anyway. 4.06 explained what happened. And it sucked. The whole story was incredibly ridiculous. Belle loses her mother in the midst of an ogre attack, wakes up with no memory of it (probably because she was either knocked out or blocked out the trauma), and wonders what happened to her mother. Gee Belle, maybe she choked on a peanut! That's what killed her. All that the episode did was tell us a story we didn't need to know as a contrived way of mixing Belle up with the "Frozen" characters, it was a stupid, half-assed, poorly thought-out story that colorized Belle as extremely dumb when she's supposed to be a smart character, and on top of that, it gave us that infamous scene in which Belle chooses to preserve a rock - that gives her memories of what happened to her mother when she should already be able to deduce what happened - over a person's life. All in a superficial attempt to try and put the character in some sort of moral grey area. Cos that's what the show does all the time: OUaT really likes to drive the point home that no character is truly good or truly bad, so they make us try to sympathize with Regina even though she killed tons of people in the past and they try to shame Snow for killing Cora, which she did to protect her whole family. No, do not rub in my nose that the two characters are more alike than they initially thought. They're really, really not. I'm digressing a bit, I'm sorry. My point was, sometimes it's hard to think of the backstories they provide as smaller pieces of a large puzzle or just chapters in a big book that make up for a good, long story, when they keep throwing unneeded and uninteresting stories our way, more regularly now than ever before, just for the sake of mixing up the regulars with the VIP guests du jour.

      Anywaaaaaaaay, back on track: yeah, Cruella de Vil seems interesting, I guess. Curious to see what her story is.

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    • At least we all know Cruella isn't dead by this episode like other viallains :) Whether that is a good thing or not, we don't know yet but I think Cruella will be a cool villain. Probably a mix of Ingrid and Zelena, Calm but still got a temper.

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    • What do you mean by that? That she isn't dead by this episode like other villains? Does someone die before this episode arrives? Or do you mean, like, how Cora died in episode 16 or some villains die in their centrics? I'm confused. If you do know someone dies by this episode, don't say who.

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    • I agree that there are some episodes that, on thier own, don't live up to the potential. Particularly if you have a week or few to dwell on them.  406 may very well be one of those episodes.

      But there's another game i like to play with those episodes. "What If...". Let's look at the episode from a slightly different perspecitve (and yes, I digress a bit).  If the events of the episode regarding Collette happened exactly as Maurice said they did, then the whole concept is not well thought out, and diminishes Belle.

      But, What if Belle suspicions are correct, and things are not as they appear? While the whole Mash-up with Frozen was contrived, there may be more to what happened to Belle's mom than what we know at the moment. For one, If Collette simply was killed protecting her daughter, why would Maurice lie about that?  That is a noble death and noble sacrifice. I find the timing of Maurice's reveal of this fact suspect, since it wasn't until AFTER Belle journeyed. Obviously, she is troubled by something that she does not remember.  What if... Maurice concocted the "sacrifice" story in order to placate Belle, once he realized how serious she was in finding the truth?

      I am, personally, hopeful that we will see more of Collette (as has been rumored), and then find out the rest of the story.  Because, if there is more to th e story, then Belle's journey to the rock troll, though still somewhat contrived, makes a lot more sense.

      Ok, Forgive the digression. Back to the topic at hand.

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    • Sounds like a great title can't wait for it but I'm more excited for the Maleficent episodes since she's my favorite Queen also Queen of Hearts wasn't that bad of an episode the Wonderland flashbacks in the episode should have been like that in OW with Alice being dragged before the Queen of Hearts or at least wander into her palace. But overall SFTDV sounds really awesome.

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    • Rena Charming wrote:
      What do you mean by that? That she isn't dead by this episode like other villains? Does someone die before this episode arrives? Or do you mean, like, how Cora died in episode 16 or some villains die in their centrics? I'm confused. If you do know someone dies by this episode, don't say who.

      As in hopefully these villains on't die like every other villain on the sohw except Regina.

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    • Oh. Well, Cruella could still die in 4.18 die, we don't know. And all or two or one of them can still die in the finale or at some other point in the season. I doubt that all three of them survive, but if all three of them died I'd be totally remiss, I think we all would. It'd just be - literally - overkill.

      Well, here's hoping that there is more to Colette then (not sure if I actually want that lol :P), and that whenever Eric Keenleyside reappears as Belle's father that he is billed as a guest star again. Him being a co-star now for some reason annoys me. I'm nerdish enough to care about that. :P

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    • I think that at least Ursula will die, I don't know but she seems the most likely to die. (and no it is not because all the black actors get the short end of the stick every time; Sidney (at first), Lancelot, Tamara, Fairy Godmother)

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    • For me, Maleficent will be killed by Regina, Gold will trap Cruella in the Hat and uses her to be freed from the Dagger, and Ursula will come back in her realm. Honestly, it is the only one I'll see alive at the end ^^

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    • I don't think Regina will kill Maleficent at all. Perhaps she dies because of fate, since she was already dead, no one can trick death. They may find a way for her to be brought back, but maybe that has a price and she ends up dying...

      However, I still think Mal will redeem. Ursula is definitely getting killed. Not sure about Cruella

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    • Although I think Cruella would have the most awesome death as she would go insane and scream while burning away or something. We all know the scene in car of Cruella at the end of 101 Dals.

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    • That's the thing: to me, regina and mal were the same kind of persons at the beginning. By defeating and killing Mal, Regina would be definitely redeemed at the end and she will be good forever. Mal would personify what happen when you can't be redeemed

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    • True, we know that scene. but in the original book, Cruella actually lives. Unlike most of the other Fairy Tale villians that end up dead.

      Personally, I hope that NONE of the villians die.  That is getting to be too predictable. I would like to see the queens broken apart, with maybe one getting a redemption path similar to Killian and Regina (Let's face it, Killian is not out of the Villian column yet, either). Then the next arc (or two) can be the seperate factions trying to achieve the same goal, and how thier interactions are (when do they double cross, when do they actually play nice together, etc).  I'm actually thinking more than 2 factions. and to make it interesting, have one of the factions based outside storybrooke (with ready and available avenues for easy transport between realms).

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    • I really do hope none of the villains die. It's cliche and, really, kill off Maleficent? You can have her stay in Storybrooke. She and Regina can have that love / hate relationship, I wouldn't mind that.

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Wow, everyone's really hating on some of the episodes. I could never hate any of the episodes. Sure, some aren't as amazing as others, but the point is you need them all to tell a complete story. Think of them as chapters in a book, not every chapter has the same awesomeness, but together they make the book awesome.

      Honestly, I couldn't agree more!

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    • So help anyone who puts a scratch on that car!!!!

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    • Lady Junky wrote: That's the thing: to me, regina and mal were the same kind of persons at the beginning. By defeating and killing Mal, Regina would be definitely redeemed at the end and she will be good forever. Mal would personify what happen when you can't be redeemed

      It's hard to picture a scenario in which this happens that would make me root for Regina. You're saying she has to permanently solidify her position as a hero by killing someone? No matter how evil Maleficent might turn out to be, this is a bit radical, especially since Regina spared Zelena's life.

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    • I wouldn't be surprised if Cruella herself ended up killing Ursula.

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    • @Rena; if she has to kill her old friend to protect the town or Henry, I think Regina could do it.

      @Paul: I completely agree with the main idea. I would be sooooo disppointing if at the end one of the Queens do not try to betray the others for her own plan :D

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    • @Lady, to save the town or Henry, I see your point. However, I don't think Maleficent's play in the story will be that crutial as to affect the town as a whole. I see Cruella or Ursula as more dangerous, I truly believe Maleficent won't offer that much of a threat. OK, we don't know what happened to her unicorn, but she might really try to harm Henry so that Regina will be in the same situation she was years ago (remember Regina/Mal conversatoin was the first scene that stablished love as weakness).

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    • Rena Charming wrote:
      I try to think like that, in a "the more you know" kind of way. Or at least I did, before 4.06. Let me explain how. You see, there are many things about the characters that I still want to know. For example, I wanna see how Snowing and the others took back the kingdom, how Red and Granny reunited after the events of 2.07's flashes, what Frankenstein did after he couldn't kill his brother, how Will wound up in Storybrooke both times, how Tink ended up in Neverland in the first place, why the Blind Witch in the gingerbread house had the apple and why that apple was so special anyway... There are many unanswered questions in the series, some of whom I believe will never actually be answered, cos either the writers just forgot about them or they never meant to provide too much insight on them anyway. So it's disheartening for me when we get episodes that don't answer any actual questions, they just tell stories made up for that specific episode that don't feel like pieces of the puzzle, they're just there. Like Snow and Charming's run-in with Medusa in 3.10, or all of those episodes that show moments shared between Rumbelle that fit in the over-arching story of 1.12 (2.19, 3.11, and even 4.11). But before 4.06, I always thought, "hey, whatever, the more you know". Like, I never asked myself "how did Hook become a pirate?". I never wondered about that. We found that out, however, in 3.05, and I didn't mind knowing it. The more you know. But, thing is, I also never really wondered what happened to Belle's mother, especially since the character isn't known for having a mother in the traditional fairytale or in the Disney movie anyway. 4.06 explained what happened. And it sucked. The whole story was incredibly ridiculous. Belle loses her mother in the midst of an ogre attack, wakes up with no memory of it (probably because she was either knocked out or blocked out the trauma), and wonders what happened to her mother. Gee Belle, maybe she choked on a peanut! That's what killed her. All that the episode did was tell us a story we didn't need to know as a contrived way of mixing Belle up with the "Frozen" characters, it was a stupid, half-assed, poorly thought-out story that colorized Belle as extremely dumb when she's supposed to be a smart character, and on top of that, it gave us that infamous scene in which Belle chooses to preserve a rock - that gives her memories of what happened to her mother when she should already be able to deduce what happened - over a person's life. All in a superficial attempt to try and put the character in some sort of moral grey area. Cos that's what the show does all the time: OUaT really likes to drive the point home that no character is truly good or truly bad, so they make us try to sympathize with Regina even though she killed tons of people in the past and they try to shame Snow for killing Cora, which she did to protect her whole family. No, do not rub in my nose that the two characters are more alike than they initially thought. They're really, really not. I'm digressing a bit, I'm sorry. My point was, sometimes it's hard to think of the backstories they provide as smaller pieces of a large puzzle or just chapters in a big book that make up for a good, long story, when they keep throwing unneeded and uninteresting stories our way, more regularly now than ever before, just for the sake of mixing up the regulars with the VIP guests du jour.

      Anywaaaaaaaay, back on track: yeah, Cruella de Vil seems interesting, I guess. Curious to see what her story is.

      I get it, and yes the Belle flashback in 406 was not the best, and Belle was a bit shoehorned in with the Frozen stuff. But I think we have to wait until the show is over to truly judge how important or unimportant this Belle flashback was. Many books, tv shows, and other serialized storytelling mediums, will plant something that seems unimportant at first, until something else is revealed later on. So I really think there is more to Belle's mother's death than what we think, and it may play into something else later on. Or it won't, and then you'd be right, it would be a pretty poor flashback. But we have to give this time, Maleficent was shown to be a friend of Regina in the 2nd episode of Season 1, and we are just now going to see how that happened in the 14th episode of Season 4.

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    • DarKingdomHearts wrote:
      I think that at least Ursula will die, I don't know but she seems the most likely to die. (and no it is not because all the black actors get the short end of the stick every time; Sidney (at first), Lancelot, Tamara, Fairy Godmother)

      Ironically enough, they seem to be going with Ursula being a godess, meaning she should literally not be able to die. Personally I think the breakdown is as such: Maleficent gets redeemed and stays on the show, at least as much as we see Granny, Archie, Leroy, etc. Ursula gets banished to an underwater grotto somewhere, and we never see her in present day again. Cruella dies somehow, and we never see her in present day again. I still think whatever happens, we might see any of the three in flashbacks at some point down the line.

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    • I do not picture any of those three women staying on the show in a recurring capacity like the dwarfs and granny. When was the last time that happened with a VIP guest? Cora, Pan, Zelena, Ingrid and even Anna and Elsa didn't get to stick around. I'm fairly certain that the three Queens of Darkness won't either, whatever fate they end up meeting.

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    • Rena Charming wrote:
      I do not picture any of those three women staying on the show in a recurring capacity like the dwarfs and granny. When was the last time that happened with a VIP guest? Cora, Pan, Zelena, Ingrid and even Anna and Elsa didn't get to stick around. I'm fairly certain that the three Queens of Darkness won't either, whatever fate they end up meeting.

      I think everyone should expect this. They are "guest stars" for a reason, they have a major arc, and when that's done they disappear, they are not regular or supporting cast. Even when a character is very popular like Zelena, she only gets a comeback for 1 flashback (for now).

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    • Rena Charming wrote:
      I do not picture any of those three women staying on the show in a recurring capacity like the dwarfs and granny. When was the last time that happened with a VIP guest? Cora, Pan, Zelena, Ingrid and even Anna and Elsa didn't get to stick around. I'm fairly certain that the three Queens of Darkness won't either, whatever fate they end up meeting.

      Well let's see: Hook, Robin Hood, Aurora, and Marian, all first appeared as guests and have been around for quite a while, so I think it's too early to say that none of the QoD are going to stay after these 11 episodes.

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    • I said VIP guests, that means a character who sticks around for a certain, specific arc. Out of the ones you mentioned, only Aurora was originally brought in for an arc and then kept appearing sporadically, but her story has yet to be told anyway.

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    • What I want to happen is that Ursula becomes good, and goes back into the see, and she will not be seen frequently, but like Zelena will appear randomly and she may be an important part of an upcoming story. I want Maleficent dead, and for good, she keeps coming back and it's annoying. And I want Cruella to be sent into the real world, and like at the end of 101 Dalmatians, the one with the car, she will be trapped out of story broke, and will stay outside of storybooks until a point somewhere in the future whine she returns, then she should just die. I think this would be good cause then they won't all die and be cancelled out at the same point like all the other villains(Ingrid, Pan, Zelena and Cora)

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    • 101Pugs2015 wrote: What I want to happen is that Ursula becomes good, and goes back into the see, and she will not be seen frequently, but like Zelena will appear randomly and she may be an important part of an upcoming story. I want Maleficent dead, and for good, she keeps coming back and it's annoying. And I want Cruella to be sent into the real world, and like at the end of 101 Dalmatians, the one with the car, she will be trapped out of story broke, and will stay outside of storybooks until a point somewhere in the future whine she returns, then she should just die. I think this would be good cause then they won't all die and be cancelled out at the same point like all the other villains(Ingrid, Pan, Zelena and Cora)

      Lol, I think Ursula will go join her father and gods somewhere else. Maleficent even in other material, like Kingdom Hearts, won't stay dead. If she dies, it would be anti-climatic since she was destroyed in two forms. I figured it out! Maleficent is a final boss in a rpg, with this as her second to last or final stage! Cruella could just go in the asylum.

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    • I can see Cruella have a mental breakdown at the end of the season, it just fits her. Also remember how Maleficent was revived in Kingdom Hearts II? Flora, Fauna and Merryweather only had to THINK about her and she resurrected.

      So I guess people who have known Maleficent and are near her corpse and then think of her actually will revive her. But yeah, that's Kingdom Hearts not Once xD

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    • How do we know OUAT's Poseidon is a god?

      Maybe he is just the king of the merpeople, who banished her daughter for being a witch.

      I thought the whole "Ursula is a goddess" thing from 3x06 was just a misunderstanding/myth

      Even Rumple called her "the sea witch" in 4x11, no "the sea gooddes". Being a goddess is way more important that being a witch. If she is actually a goddess, everyone would call her that way. 

      Anyway, if she is a goddess, why would she care about heroes getting the happy endings......... she is immortal.... that would be just too irrelevant for her

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    • Why don't we all just wait and see?

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    • 8Rob wrote: How do we know OUAT's Poseidon is a god?

      Maybe he is just the king of the merpeople, who banished her daughter for being a witch.

      I thought the whole "Ursula is a goddess" thing from 3x06 was just a misunderstanding/myth

      Even Rumple called her "the sea witch" in 4x11, no "the sea gooddes". Being a goddess is way more important that being a witch. If she is actually a goddess, everyone would call her that way. 

      Anyway, if she is a goddess, why would she care about heroes getting the happy endings......... she is immortal.... that would be just too irrelevant for her

      Well, just because she's a god(dess) doesn't mean she can change fate. In Achilles and other Greek literature, the gods had great powers but would not and could not override fate. Even Zeus did not, and he saw many of his children fall in battle.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      8Rob wrote: How do we know OUAT's Poseidon is a god?

      Maybe he is just the king of the merpeople, who banished her daughter for being a witch.

      I thought the whole "Ursula is a goddess" thing from 3x06 was just a misunderstanding/myth

      Even Rumple called her "the sea witch" in 4x11, no "the sea gooddes". Being a goddess is way more important that being a witch. If she is actually a goddess, everyone would call her that way. 

      Anyway, if she is a goddess, why would she care about heroes getting the happy endings......... she is immortal.... that would be just too irrelevant for her

      Well, just because she's a god(dess) doesn't mean she can change fate. In Achilles and other Greek literature, the gods had great powers but would not and could not override fate. Even Zeus did not, and he saw many of his children fall in battle.

      Well I think that Ursula is not a sea goddess but a witch, since rumple called them his students, that makes me think maybe they were involved with some sort of Rumple style training, like Regina. That leads me to believe that maybe Ursula had to be taught how to use her magic, and she was not born with it as a goddess.

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    • 101Pugs2015 wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:

      8Rob wrote: How do we know OUAT's Poseidon is a god?

      Maybe he is just the king of the merpeople, who banished her daughter for being a witch.

      I thought the whole "Ursula is a goddess" thing from 3x06 was just a misunderstanding/myth

      Even Rumple called her "the sea witch" in 4x11, no "the sea gooddes". Being a goddess is way more important that being a witch. If she is actually a goddess, everyone would call her that way. 

      Anyway, if she is a goddess, why would she care about heroes getting the happy endings......... she is immortal.... that would be just too irrelevant for her

      Well, just because she's a god(dess) doesn't mean she can change fate. In Achilles and other Greek literature, the gods had great powers but would not and could not override fate. Even Zeus did not, and he saw many of his children fall in battle.

      Well I think that Ursula is not a sea goddess but a witch, since rumple called them his students, that makes me think maybe they were involved with some sort of Rumple style training, like Regina. That leads me to believe that maybe Ursula had to be taught how to use her magic, and she was not born with it as a goddess.

      Well, Rumple didn't call him his students, just said they were like students trying to surpass the master (in manipulation, I guess). I haven't the slightest clue why others are confused by that line.

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    • Alright, so Henry, Regina, Emma, Cruella, Pongo, Emma's Car, Regina's Car, Cruella's Car, and Paige's Bike we're all on set. Make of that what you will.

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote: Alright, so Henry, Regina, Emma, Cruella, Pongo, Emma's Car, Regina's Car, Cruella's Car, and Paige's Bike we're all on set. Make of that what you will.

      I want a car chase!

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    • Cruella has quite the physique when she takes away her coat.

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    • I have an idea that the Peddler aka Gorin (which probably is a casting name) is actually Roger from 101 Dalmatians, which explains why there's barely casting or returning news of characters for episode 18

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    • ...but they said Gorin is a key character to the show's mithology.

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    • Chameleon-Guy wrote:
      ...but they said Gorin is a key character to the show's mithology.

      And Peter Pan is Rumplestiltskins father, the show writers are unpredictable sometimes.


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    • hope we get a follow up epsiode showing Cruella's driving skills and road rage, they could call it: "Riding with the De Vil"!

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    • Xtian MadHatter wrote: I have an idea that the Peddler aka Gorin (which probably is a casting name) is actually Roger from 101 Dalmatians, which explains why there's barely casting or returning news of characters for episode 18

      In the 101 Dalmatians story, Roger was a writer... Heh, there's your author!

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Andrew.scott.503 wrote:

      Xtian MadHatter wrote: I have an idea that the Peddler aka Gorin (which probably is a casting name) is actually Roger from 101 Dalmatians, which explains why there's barely casting or returning news of characters for episode 18

      In the 101 Dalmatians story, Roger was a writer... Heh, there's your author!

      Roger was a music writer and game designer...

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    • Hmcooper4 wrote:
      I agree, this is an amazing title, and I can't wait.

      Though my first thought when I saw the title was the Rolling Stones.


      good i'm not the only one.

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    • As far as we know this episode lacks guest stars. The only confirmed guest stars for this episode are Cruella obviously, and the dog who plays Pongo.

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    • I'm still kinda holding on to hope that Archie appears, that the episode doesn't just start with Henry taking care of Pongo and saying something like, "Archie asked me to take care of Pongo because he has to go away on a business trip even though no one can actually leave town". I want Archie to be in S4B. But it looks like he hasn't been filming at all... :(

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    • I'm with the other people who want the QOD to come to their senses and help take Rumple down.

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    • MyPretties wrote:
      I'm with the other people who want the QOD to come to their senses and help take Rumple down.


      I don't want TQOD'S to go anywhere! Love all 3 and want them to stay in SB for good, I'm 100% on Team Cruella. I hope they become like Regina & Killian...

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    • I very much doubt that either one of those three characters will stick around after this arc is over. :( It's just not the pattern we're used to. But I guess we have to wait and see.

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    • Well Zelena is coming back....

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    • Coming back is not sticking around. Let's see under what circumstances she fits back into the show.

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    • True but this is the first time that a main arc villain returns without being in a flashback (if the theory's are right that is)

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    • ZELENA IS BACK!!! =___= This better not be Gold in disguise.

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    • Vinc3ntN wrote: ZELENA IS BACK!!! =___= This better not be Gold in disguise.

      I doubt it would be. He wouldn't get anywhere in that disguise, the towns people trust her way less than they trust him.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Vinc3ntN wrote:
      ZELENA IS BACK!!! =___= This better not be Gold in disguise.

      i can't see that image ...

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Kncooper wrote:
      Vinc3ntN wrote:
      ZELENA IS BACK!!! =___= This better not be Gold in disguise.
      i can't see that image ...

      I'm pretty sure it was just a picture of Zelena in SB, from the spoilers we had a few days ago.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I'm wondering a lot about Cruella and i've the feeling we are far from knowing everything about her. The producer say they created their own new brand tale and my guesses is that this include QoD more than we could imagine, and maybe surprise us.

      Don't you think it's strange that Cruella, having persuasion power over animals is actually teaming up with a fish and a dragon, as she says? Granny's (who's half an wolf) reactions about her can be a clue. I think she can control them at some point, but why don't she try it?

      Almost all the scene with her is about her interaction with hallf animals/creatures, this can't be just for fun.

      + Producers say that Saison 4A was first about Cruella, not Mal, not Ursulla. Maybe they change it to the Frozen Arc, but the main villain is maybe still her, in disguise. Wath if Rumple made a deal with cruella, and she's secretly waiting the rigth moment to control them somehow... or she's already infuencing them.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • If that's the case, I don't think I'd want to be in her shoes when she is found out (and you know she would be).  I think Regina, being the Hero, would roast Cruella with a nice, lovely fireball. and Since Regina is NOT part animal, there's not a thing that Cruella could do about it. Or Em would light up her world, to the same effect.

      Still, that's not a bad theory.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • There was an interview about Cruella getting a chance to test out her powers over her other QoD. Can't find it now but it was released after DotEoT aired.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Yeah, i had the feeling A & E always plan things for a good reason, and every details have a meaning, and are linked.

      Maybe she'll just try it later, and that's not planned yet. I think she's kind of borderline (black and white, very dark/ligth, nothing is totally black or white and she's both of them), and as a lot of borderline really smart.

      But rumple and her have something in common... remember her reaction in Darkness on the edge of the town when she saw him, the way she talk to him.

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    • The line, "i'm not going back to that life." or something like that showed that her old life before becoming a villain was something truly terrible.

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    • I have a feeling that Cruella will be the first to be defeated, and it might be in this episode, seeing as this is the last episode where she is listed.

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    • MyPretties wrote:
      I have a feeling that Cruella will be the first to be defeated, and it might be in this episode, seeing as this is the last episode where she is listed.


      other people have been saying the same about Ursula on other threads. 

      Cruella atm is my least favourite of the three. either way i hope Maleficent stays alive (or even gets added to main next season, pipe dreams though)

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    • She prolly dies along with Ursula in her centric episode. Ursula survives long enough for the next episode. According to Victoria Smurfit shes done filming for the season.

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    • Tails-make-the-fox wrote: She prolly dies along with Ursula in her centric episode. Ursula survives long enough for the next episode. According to Victoria Smurfit shes done filming for the season.

      The woes of being villains. Pobably by Rumple since he has a track record of killing villainesses.

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    • Or Hook. 

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    • Tails-make-the-fox wrote: Or Hook. 

      I wish, but they won't kill him unless they reverse it.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      Tails-make-the-fox wrote: She prolly dies along with Ursula in her centric episode. Ursula survives long enough for the next episode. According to Victoria Smurfit shes done filming for the season.

      The woes of being villains. Pobably by Rumple since he has a track record of killing villainesses.



      Oh yeah he betrayed queen of darkness before perhaps is Rumple 

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    • Tails-make-the-fox wrote:
      Or Hook. 

      I hope Cruella stays. I love her. 

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    • they always kill off villains :(

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    • Regina, Rumple, Hook and Zelena are still alive (with 2 of them reformed)

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    • DarKingdomHearts wrote: Regina, Rumple, Hook and Zelena are still alive (with 2 of them reformed)

      Regina, Rumple, and Hook are main characters so of course they are alive. Zelena is dead for now, until we see her in that episode (we don't know of she survives the episode)

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    • Zelena could also be a dream sequence or hallucination we can't be sure she's really alive till we watch the episode

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    • Kncooper wrote:
      Zelena could also be a dream sequence or hallucination we can't be sure she's really alive till we watch the episode

      Why would anyone be halucinating or dreaming bringing Zelena back to Storybrooke with Robin and Roland in Marian's clothes? I'm 99.99% sure Zelena is alive and well, as of that scene.

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    • While I agree with you on the liklihood that she's back, we need to hold all of our excitement until she is actually on screen and alive.  Same for Cora. or any other previously thought dead person.

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    • She is most likely resurrected, but who's saying she will stay alive for more than a couple of episodes?

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    • Regina's sister needs to stay alive, even if Rebecca Mader is not able to do more than an occasional Cameo.  As we saw in the first half of the season, Family does not give up on each other, and I think that might hold true for Regina and Zelena.

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Kncooper wrote:
      Zelena could also be a dream sequence or hallucination we can't be sure she's really alive till we watch the episode
      Why would anyone be halucinating or dreaming bringing Zelena back to Storybrooke with Robin and Roland in Marian's clothes? I'm 99.99% sure Zelena is alive and well, as of that scene.

      I'm not saying she isn't i'm just saying we can't be 100% sure until we see the episode. It could be an outlandish nightmaremore all we know , we just can't be totally sure till the episode airs (because bts and sneak peeks can be misleading).

      Again, i'm not saying whether she is or isn't alive but we can't confirm it until the episode airs.

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    • But she appears in multiple episodes... in both forms...

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    • Zelena is only listed as appearing in "Mother" her counterpart (WWotW) appears in "heart of gold" [i looked at the characters appearances on their pages].

      Her counterpart is most likely flashback, but she may or may not be alive.  i agree there is a 99% chance she is alive, but they could pull something out of left field, so we can't put "Alive" on her page until the episode(s) airs.

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    • that's kinda what I said but whatever

      And of course we can't put those things on the pages, but we can pull it into our theories ;)

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    • Kncooper wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Kncooper wrote:
      Zelena could also be a dream sequence or hallucination we can't be sure she's really alive till we watch the episode
      Why would anyone be halucinating or dreaming bringing Zelena back to Storybrooke with Robin and Roland in Marian's clothes? I'm 99.99% sure Zelena is alive and well, as of that scene.
      I'm not saying she isn't i'm just saying we can't be 100% sure until we see the episode. It could be an outlandish nightmaremore all we know , we just can't be totally sure till the episode airs (because bts and sneak peeks can be misleading).

      Again, i'm not saying whether she is or isn't alive but we can't confirm it until the episode airs.

      Well, right, we can't be sure of anything, until the episode airs. I still think it's highly likely she is back though.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Since Ursula got her happy ending in Poor Unfortunate Soul, now I'm thinking that Cruella might get hers in this episode.

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    • A major twist would be if Pongo is the thing she loves most.

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    • That looks like one of Cruella's dogs we saw in Darkness on the Egde of the Town at 2:50

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGe2KqWdwtU

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    • MyPretties wrote:
      Since Ursula got her happy ending in Poor Unfortunate Soul, now I'm thinking that Cruella might get hers in this episode.


      Well she could get her happy ending or she could die, since she isn't in the show after this episode.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I think that both Merrin and Victoria are done with taping for OUaT as of "SFtDV".  Since Merrin is appearing after getting her happy ending, it is likely just flashbacks (though they could pull her into present day again, depending on the story requirements). So I think that episode 4x18 probably ends the Queens of Darkness arc, and Merrin and Victoria will be off set (at least for this season, if they manage to keep Cruella alive as well, then who knows what future seasons hold).

      4x19 through the Finale is probably a combination of Lily, Maleficent, Snow and David's dirty deed, potentially Dark Emma, and Operation Mongoose, which I am getting the feeling are very much intertwined, and compose a conclusion to this years action with the Author, and set up the next season, probably with some sort of major cliffhanger.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Where is J&H? Cruella always needs her to henchmen, or did Mal & Ursula fill their rolls?

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    • J & H are hanging out in the sidekicks bar with F & J, and Diablo and Smee.

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Gusey1397 wrote:
      Usually, epeisode 18 is when we find a characters backstory and it is really emotional e.g. Regina ain "The Stable Boy" and Cora in "Bleeding Through". Can't Wait.
      2.18 gave us Selfless, Brave, and True.... a.k.a. the worst OUaT episode ever.


      Anyone ever realize that Archie has NEVER been in a Pinnochio themed episode?!

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    • Yes he has.

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    • No, he really hasn't... Jiminy Cricket was featured in 1.20, but Archie wasn't. Neither versions of his persona were featured in 2.18, and those are the only two Pinocchio-centric episodes of the series. August and Archie have never, ever co-starred. Another reflection of how carelessly the writers handled Archie in season 1 (and the whole series) even though he was a series regular.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I just can't shake the feeling that Pongo is really Cruella's dog...

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    • Miwaandsplintergirl1 wrote:
      ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Gusey1397 wrote:
      Usually, epeisode 18 is when we find a characters backstory and it is really emotional e.g. Regina ain "The Stable Boy" and Cora in "Bleeding Through". Can't Wait.
      2.18 gave us Selfless, Brave, and True.... a.k.a. the worst OUaT episode ever.


      Anyone ever realize that Archie has NEVER been in a Pinnochio themed episode?!

      Jiminy meets Gepetto in 105 though, and Gepetto makes Pinnocio, so they are somewhat connected. Just off screen, like everything else on this show, lol.

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    • DZAV21 wrote:
      Where is J&H? Cruella always needs her to henchmen, or did Mal & Ursula fill their rolls?

      I'm thinking those are the names of the two dogs she had in 412.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Isn't it weird that we don't know any guests for this episode?

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    • Nakis91 wrote: Isn't it weird that we don't know any guests for this episode?

      It prolly does, they just have not been revealed.

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    • Nakis91 wrote:
      Isn't it weird that we don't know any guests for this episode?

      Well, we know one: Cruella. I'm sure there are others, but for whatever reason no one saw them on set. I'm guessing that means alot of this episode will be indoors for the SB part, and the EF part was all shot on the greenscreen sound stage.

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    • And if any actors are reprising recurring roles, it is quite likely that they won't be announced until the Press Release. They generally don't announce when actors return for existing roles. (Look how Jesse Schram kinda snuck up on us in the first half of the season.) Grumpy, Archie, Ruby, or any other standing member of the cast could appear without very much pomp (unless, of course, they choose to reveal it themselves).

      For Instance, I saw a picture of Lee Arenberg with Agnes Bruckner (via both of their twitter accounts), and the impression, at least, was that it was taken at some point when both actors were in Vancouver filming OUaT. So while it is not conclusive, I would say that increases the odds that Grumpy is a part of Operation Mongoose. (Though someone else may have more conclusive evidence, I am just using this as an example).  As another example, we have no Idea what Barclay Hope (established as Lily's dad back in 4A) is doing in "Best Laid Plans".  He was not listed previously, and all we know for certain is his name is in the press release.

      Probably about the only thing we can say for sure is nothing. However, there is a strong chance that there is no major role character being introduced into this episode, meaning that the filiming will use existing characters only.

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    • Hmcooper4 wrote:
      And if any actors are reprising recurring roles, it is quite likely that they won't be announced until the Press Release. They generally don't announce when actors return for existing roles. (Look how Jesse Schram kinda snuck up on us in the first half of the season.) Grumpy, Archie, Ruby, or any other standing member of the cast could appear without very much pomp (unless, of course, they choose to reveal it themselves).

      For Instance, I saw a picture of Lee Arenberg with Agnes Bruckner (via both of their twitter accounts), and the impression, at least, was that it was taken at some point when both actors were in Vancouver filming OUaT. So while it is not conclusive, I would say that increases the odds that Grumpy is a part of Operation Mongoose. (Though someone else may have more conclusive evidence, I am just using this as an example).  As another example, we have no Idea what Barclay Hope (established as Lily's dad back in 4A) is doing in "Best Laid Plans".  He was not listed previously, and all we know for certain is his name is in the press release.

      Probably about the only thing we can say for sure is nothing. However, there is a strong chance that there is no major role character being introduced into this episode, meaning that the filiming will use existing characters only.

      I thought about that but then again, how are they going to tell Cruella's story with no one-off guest stars?

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Well, for openers, one comment from an interview earlier in the season  (with A & E) mentioned that we would see some of Pongo's back story at some point. Cruella's backstory seems like a great place to do that. So we may see dalmations in the back story, and those animals will not get any advance billing, probably not even in the press release unless it is part of the synopsis that is revealed.

      Honestly, we don't know WHAT Cruella's story is, so it's hard to say.

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    • I hope Archie is in it, we only saw him in 1 episode for this season.

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    • Nakis91 wrote:
      Hmcooper4 wrote:
      And if any actors are reprising recurring roles, it is quite likely that they won't be announced until the Press Release. They generally don't announce when actors return for existing roles. (Look how Jesse Schram kinda snuck up on us in the first half of the season.) Grumpy, Archie, Ruby, or any other standing member of the cast could appear without very much pomp (unless, of course, they choose to reveal it themselves).

      For Instance, I saw a picture of Lee Arenberg with Agnes Bruckner (via both of their twitter accounts), and the impression, at least, was that it was taken at some point when both actors were in Vancouver filming OUaT. So while it is not conclusive, I would say that increases the odds that Grumpy is a part of Operation Mongoose. (Though someone else may have more conclusive evidence, I am just using this as an example).  As another example, we have no Idea what Barclay Hope (established as Lily's dad back in 4A) is doing in "Best Laid Plans".  He was not listed previously, and all we know for certain is his name is in the press release.

      Probably about the only thing we can say for sure is nothing. However, there is a strong chance that there is no major role character being introduced into this episode, meaning that the filiming will use existing characters only.

      I thought about that but then again, how are they going to tell Cruella's story with no one-off guest stars?

      It's possible Cruella ties into existing characters back stories, like Granny and Red, so she may not have one off guest stars in her backstory. To me, this is highly likely, because Granny was very cold to Cruella in the diner, like colder than she is to Regina, and her daughter is named Anita. I don't think that was an accident on Adam and Eddy's part.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Hmcooper4 wrote: However, there is a strong chance that there is no major role character being introduced into this episode, meaning that the filiming will use existing characters only.

      Elsa was introduced at the end of season 3, in the cliffhanger, without an actual actor portraying the part, long before Georgina was cast, maybe they'll do something similar this season, meaning they can still introduce a major character without an actor attached to the role. I hope not, I'd rather they handle it like they did Pan in the s2 finale.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Rena Charming wrote:

      Hmcooper4 wrote: However, there is a strong chance that there is no major role character being introduced into this episode, meaning that the filiming will use existing characters only.

      Elsa was introduced at the end of season 3, in the cliffhanger, without an actual actor portraying the part, long before Georgina was cast, maybe they'll do something similar this season, meaning they can still introduce a major character without an actor attached to the role. I hope not, I'd rather they handle it like they did Pan in the s2 finale.

      The reason they did that with Pan and Elsa though was it was a cliffhanger and they had time to cast the actor before shooting of the next season began. Why would they not cast someone for an episode in the middle of a season?

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    • Everthevillain
      Everthevillain removed this reply because:
      wrong
      02:01, March 29, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • Everthevillain
      Everthevillain removed this reply because:
      Cause
      01:59, March 29, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • Its funny. While I adore there Cruella, I noticed in the last ep that she doesn't seem like typical over the top Cruella. To me she seems more like a combo of Georgette from Oliver & Company and Yzma. Haha

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    • I think that after this episode, Cruella will die

      Here are my 2 predictions :

      1/ Her car will crash into something and then explode

      2/ She'll pull out a gun and shoot Rumple, but he'll manage to dodge the bullet and magically launch it back at Cruella

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    • I think that, like Ursula, Cruella may get her happy ending. Whatever that may be.

      Or perhaps she will prove irredeemable and end up perishing or getting banished. I'm very much open for that as well, considering it would be strange (new, but strange) to see a redeemed Cruella De Vil.

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    • IMDB lists four dancers as guests on this episode!! 

      Now I'm confused. 

      I really want Cruella and Maleficent to stick around but I really doubt Cruella will. I can't wait for this episode anyway. 

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    • No stranger than seeing a redeemed Ursula, or a Redeemed Maleficent.

      However they end her part of the arc, I hope it does not end in death. I think they could have some fun with her character in the future.

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    • Nakis91 wrote:
      IMDB lists four dancers as guests on this episode!! 

      Now I'm confused. 

      I really want Cruella and Maleficent to stick around but I really doubt Cruella will. I can't wait for this episode anyway. 

      Maybe Cruella is Abby Lee Miller in this world

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    • You can not always trust IMDB as a source.  It's fairly reliable, but it is also open to anyone adding information, which may or may not be reviewed on a consistent basis by the studios.

      Also, the times that I have seen "Dancer"  (or some similar limted part, like bank teller or FBI agent) listed, it was really nothing more than a glorified extra, with no lines (or one small line), and maybe one scene. (Granted, I would love to appear in 1 scene of OUaT, and I can't blame the people for wanting the recognition.)

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    • In my opinion seeing Ursula, Malificent and Cruelle redeemed in the end of the plot would be better than to kill them off.

      I think getting a Happy End and with this loosing the reason to be a villain is a very interesting concept which would strenghten the concept of hope in the show: There is hope for everyone.

      In Season One we already saw a Malificent who was not redeemed, but satisfied enough to enjoy her retirement, so I think at least she will get her Happy Ending and redeem herself with it (and Happy Ending in her case would not just be finding her daughter, what seems to happen anyway judging by BTS-Pics, it would be establishing a relationship with her).

      I still hope that Cruella will get a Happy Ending, too and will at least off camera settle down in Storybrooke... But I would love to see her becoming a regular for seasons to come, I'm sure there are great opportunities for her to start a business there, even if it is just beeing the town's number one Taxidriver.

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    • And, just based on one Script tease for "Heart of Gold", I am guessing Ursula will reappear in present day. (I could be wrong, you never know about script teases from Adam). So I agree in hoping that Cruella can become a redemmed resident in Storybrooke.

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    • The latest script tease was an April Fools joke

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    • Hmcooper4 wrote: And, just based on one Script tease for "Heart of Gold", I am guessing Ursula will reappear in present day. (I could be wrong, you never know about script teases from Adam). So I agree in hoping that Cruella can become a redemmed resident in Storybrooke.

      I can't find any script teases for that episode on twitter :/

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    • Rena Charming wrote:
      The latest script tease was an April Fools joke

      OH, dear.  And I fell for it... 

      someone hand me a paper towel so that I can wipe this egg off my face. :-)

      Moving right along.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • lol, I would still like to see it, just for fun, but I can't find it.

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    • I just checked, and the Tweet, and the article on SpoilTV, have been pulled down. :(

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    • Hmcooper4 wrote:
      I think that both Merrin and Victoria are done with taping for OUaT as of "SFtDV".  Since Merrin is appearing after getting her happy ending, it is likely just flashbacks (though they could pull her into present day again, depending on the story requirements). So I think that episode 4x18 probably ends the Queens of Darkness arc, and Merrin and Victoria will be off set (at least for this season, if they manage to keep Cruella alive as well, then who knows what future seasons hold).

      4x19 through the Finale is probably a combination of Lily, Maleficent, Snow and David's dirty deed, potentially Dark Emma, and Operation Mongoose, which I am getting the feeling are very much intertwined, and compose a conclusion to this years action with the Author, and set up the next season, probably with some sort of major cliffhanger.

      I have this hunch, that after: "Mother through to Operation Mongoose (Both Parts)" this is when The Apprentice is released from The Sorcerer's Hat and the one who does it, is himself. bc The Apprentice is The Sorcerer... and as everyone has said it for months now, The Sorcerer is Merlin, it would relate to Heroes & Villains as how Rumple took the gaunlet from Camelot. I think once Blue figures it out, not to mention Cora/Zelena will both be in both parts. I'm very skeptical about whats gonna happen next?! bc I haven't seen anything that Rumple (Bobby) is going to be in the two hour finale yet. Ohmigod! Something's happened to Rumple?! I'm freaking out! bc after Mother, Rumple's not mentioned in the last two episodes of 4B. What just happened? Is he missing or dead again, or has Zelena taken him hostage once mor or has Belle finally taken control of her husband's actions towards the town of Storybrookers.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • XOXO:P wrote:
      Hmcooper4 wrote:
      I think that both Merrin and Victoria are done with taping for OUaT as of "SFtDV".  Since Merrin is appearing after getting her happy ending, it is likely just flashbacks (though they could pull her into present day again, depending on the story requirements). So I think that episode 4x18 probably ends the Queens of Darkness arc, and Merrin and Victoria will be off set (at least for this season, if they manage to keep Cruella alive as well, then who knows what future seasons hold).

      4x19 through the Finale is probably a combination of Lily, Maleficent, Snow and David's dirty deed, potentially Dark Emma, and Operation Mongoose, which I am getting the feeling are very much intertwined, and compose a conclusion to this years action with the Author, and set up the next season, probably with some sort of major cliffhanger.

      I have this hunch, that after: "Mother through to Operation Mongoose (Both Parts)" this is when The Apprentice is released from The Sorcerer's Hat and the one who does it, is himself. bc The Apprentice is The Sorcerer... and as everyone has said it for months now, The Sorcerer is Merlin, it would relate to Heroes & Villains as how Rumple took the gaunlet from Camelot. I think once Blue figures it out, not to mention Cora/Zelena will both be in both parts. I'm very skeptical about whats gonna happen next?! bc I haven't seen anything that Rumple (Bobby) is going to be in the two hour finale yet. Ohmigod! Something's happened to Rumple?! I'm freaking out! bc after Mother, Rumple's not mentioned in the last two episodes of 4B. What just happened? Is he missing or dead again, or has Zelena taken him hostage once mor or has Belle finally taken control of her husband's actions towards the town of Storybrookers.

      He is in the finale https://twitter.com/AdamHorowitzLA/status/583815666777460736

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    • I have a feeling that Cruella's "backstory" in this episode is what happened when she and Ursula came to Our World, not what happened in the Enchanted Forest

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    • Nicolas Frost wrote: I have a feeling that Cruella's "backstory" in this episode is what happened when she and Ursula came to Our World, not what happened in the Enchanted Forest

      I don't know... an interview says we are going to find out why they didn't adopt Lily, and why they haven't aged, at the beginning of Cruella's ep. But I'm sure we should find out something about her? They said it was an origin story, explaining how she got her power, and why Rumple thought she was desperate and drinking gin in ep. 11.

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    • Nicolas Frost wrote:
      I have a feeling that Cruella's "backstory" in this episode is what happened when she and Ursula came to Our World, not what happened in the Enchanted Forest

      I think she have a backstory on the LWM before being banished again, because she doesn't seem to be a normal lady from the EF, for example because of her outfits... Sure, I can see that backstory happening too, but it would be odd without an explanation of her "peculiarity"

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Wow, everyone's really hating on some of the episodes. I could never hate any of the episodes. Sure, some aren't as amazing as others, but the point is you need them all to tell a complete story. Think of them as chapters in a book, not every chapter has the same awesomeness, but together they make the book awesome.

      You said it! I completely agree. 

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    • Ouatiwillalwaysfindyou wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Wow, everyone's really hating on some of the episodes. I could never hate any of the episodes. Sure, some aren't as amazing as others, but the point is you need them all to tell a complete story. Think of them as chapters in a book, not every chapter has the same awesomeness, but together they make the book awesome.
      You said it! I completely agree. 

      For me it's the opposite. The episodes are great. When you add them together, something does not connect and you see all the flaws.

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    • ^^Like what?

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    • Farerb wrote:
      Ouatiwillalwaysfindyou wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Wow, everyone's really hating on some of the episodes. I could never hate any of the episodes. Sure, some aren't as amazing as others, but the point is you need them all to tell a complete story. Think of them as chapters in a book, not every chapter has the same awesomeness, but together they make the book awesome.
      You said it! I completely agree. 
      For me it's the opposite. The episodes are great. When you add them together, something does not connect and you see all the flaws.

      Guys, there is a seperate thread to discuss flaws and plot holes, if you want to discuss them.

      Let's try to keep this focused on speculation and known released info regarding Cruella's Backstory.

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    • ^^Can you link that thread though, please?

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    • I just watched the trailer and gosh this is going to be epic.  

      Also, Blonde Cruella is just STUNNING, good to see Victoria's natural colors. 

      I seriously cannot wait until next Sunday.

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    • Nakis91 wrote: I just watched the trailer and gosh this is going to be epic.  

      Also, Blonde Cruella is just STUNNING, good to see Victoria's natural colors. 

      I seriously cannot wait until next Sunday.

      Neither can I, but I guess we have to wait. Seeing and sensing the feel, I think Cruella might meat her end. And not a happy one!

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    • No ctv promo?

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      Nakis91 wrote: I just watched the trailer and gosh this is going to be epic.  

      Also, Blonde Cruella is just STUNNING, good to see Victoria's natural colors. 

      I seriously cannot wait until next Sunday.

      Neither can I, but I guess we have to wait. Seeing and sensing the feel, I think Cruella might meat her end. And not a happy one!

      I think they take a more humanitarian approach this around (with the villains). Maybe she does die in this episode but maybe they give her her happy ending, even though she seems a bit cuckoo and not Ingrid cuckoo like, psycho cuckoo. 

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    • Oh what if Cruella was Anita?

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    • DZAV21 wrote:
      Oh what if Cruella was Anita?

      YES!! That's what I was thinking after seeing Blonde Cruella.

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    • Nakis91 wrote:

      DZAV21 wrote:
      Oh what if Cruella was Anita?

      YES!! That's what I was thinking after seeing Blonde Cruella.

      She and the Author might be a twist to Anita and Roger. But instead the Author is a writer now and Cruella goes crazy and becomes who we see today.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      Nakis91 wrote: I just watched the trailer and gosh this is going to be epic.  

      Also, Blonde Cruella is just STUNNING, good to see Victoria's natural colors. 

      I seriously cannot wait until next Sunday.

      Neither can I, but I guess we have to wait. Seeing and sensing the feel, I think Cruella might meat her end. And not a happy one!

      I really don't want Cruella to die but it looks like she will. she isn't listed for any more episodes and from the promo with her threatening Henry, it will be her downfall. I'm beyond excited for the episode but I really don't want Cruella to leave the show.

      regarding her backstory, I think it might be after she arrives in the LWM as there was a guy in a suit with her in the promo and no one wears clothes like that in FTL (except her). if this is the case, I am kinda disappointed that we don't get her EF backstory but her LWM backstory (but she does go with the real world more though). Vic's hair is great as well.

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    • I'd be kinda disappointed if Cruella is the only QoD who dies, Ursula was also useless, why give her a happy ending but not to Cruella?

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    • So, Cruella is trying to win herself a loyal fanbase by treatening to kill Henry like Zelena did last season. XD

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    • Lol, it seems she doesn't use magic very often

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    • Ok, one thing I am going to be interested in is the 2 Dalmations that were with Cruella in the Promo.  A & E did hint at revealing at least a little about Pongo's family.  I wonder if that ties in, and maybe we'll see present day Pongo a little more prominently again in the next episode.

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    • Cruella is blonde in the promo photos for this episode.

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    • Utter solitude wrote: Cruella is blonde in the promo photos for this episode.

      Yeah, okay?!

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    • The point is, she looks nothing like she does present day, meaning she transformed herself. As soon as I get home I'll upload the photos.

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    • Utter solitude wrote: The point is, she looks nothing like she does present day, meaning she transformed herself. As soon as I get home I'll upload the photos.

      Okay. I saw them, but didn't know what you meant by that. I was like "Well, of course. It's not like she was born with black and white hair!" but then I was confused. I like how modern the set it. It looks just like it doesn't at all fit into the Enchanted Forest.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      I like how modern the set it. It looks just like it doesn't at all fit into the Enchanted Forest.

      That is because Cruella is not from the Enchanted Forest, according to the synopsis.

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:

      I like how modern the set it. It looks just like it doesn't at all fit into the Enchanted Forest.

      That is because Cruella is not from the Enchanted Forest, according to the synopsis.

      Oh, well, I need to read the synopsis...and hit Adam and Eddy upside the head!

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    • My goodness a 1920s Fictional England. How many Englands do we need! It better be the same as Alice's.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      My goodness a 1920s Fictional England. How many Englands do we need! It better be the same as Alice's.

      I belive it is the same as Alice's. Just a few years after Alice's story ;)

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    • FrancisPaul wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      My goodness a 1920s Fictional England. How many Englands do we need! It better be the same as Alice's.
      I belive it is the same as Alice's. Just a few years after Alice's story ;)

      I hope so as well. Makes no sense to create another realm that is another version of England

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    • It isn't after Alice. Cruella's story predates Alice's story.

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    • Well, at the point things are right now, time, past, future, age and all are relative. The author might have made her grow old, go back in time, travel to the future, then become a child again, anything XD

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    • I thought that Alice was from Victorian England, or at least from a land that appeared to be very similar socially, technologically etc to Victorian England, which is 1837-1901, with the original novel having been written in 1865 and the sequel in 1871.

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    • FrancisPaul wrote: Well, at the point things are right now, time, past, future, age and all are relative. The author might have made her grow old, go back in time, travel to the future, then become a child again, anything XD

      I will respectfully disagree with you. The Author has shown no such power and it's quite speculative to think he has other powers than to override free will and record. According to what has been shown, Cruella's story comes before Alice's since Adult Cruella was in EF, while Alice was still growing up and meeting Cyrus.

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    • Rockchick 19 wrote:
      I thought that Alice was from Victorian England which is 1837-1901, with the original novel having been written in 1865 and the sequel in 1871.

      My point is: IF they are that careless about details as to create a whole "fictional England" thing to justify timeline issues, there's no way to be sure that in Alice's world Queen Victoria ruled in 1950, for instance.

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    • Rockchick 19 wrote: I thought that Alice was from Victorian England which is 1837-1901, with the original novel having been written in 1865 and the sequel in 1871.

      She is from Victorian England!

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      FrancisPaul wrote: Well, at the point things are right now, time, past, future, age and all are relative. The author might have made her grow old, go back in time, travel to the future, then become a child again, anything XD

      I will respectfully disagree with you. The Author has shown no such power and it's quite speculative to think he has other powers than to override free will and record. According to what has been shown, Cruella's story comes before Alice's since Adult Cruella was in EF, while Alice was still growing up and meeting Cyrus.

      I meant the Apprentice/Sorcerer.

      Of course you can disagree, and of course it is far-fetched. But I wouldn't be surprised if that turned out to be true. It no longer seems that rules of magic are something writers care about, sadly

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    • FrancisPaul wrote:

      Rockchick 19 wrote:
      I thought that Alice was from Victorian England which is 1837-1901, with the original novel having been written in 1865 and the sequel in 1871.

      My point is: IF they are that careless about details as to create a whole "fictional England" thing to justify timeline issues, there's no way to be sure that in Alice's world Queen Victoria ruled in 1950, for instance.

      What does 1950 have to do with anything? The Victorian England/ Victorian world is a perpetual state of being in the Victorian period. Years go by but the technology and science does not progress. Time obviously moves forward and is the same flow as the other worlds.

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    • FrancisPaul wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:

      FrancisPaul wrote: Well, at the point things are right now, time, past, future, age and all are relative. The author might have made her grow old, go back in time, travel to the future, then become a child again, anything XD

      I will respectfully disagree with you. The Author has shown no such power and it's quite speculative to think he has other powers than to override free will and record. According to what has been shown, Cruella's story comes before Alice's since Adult Cruella was in EF, while Alice was still growing up and meeting Cyrus.

      I meant the Apprentice/Sorcerer.

      Of course you can disagree, and of course it is far-fetched. But I wouldn't be surprised if that turned out to be true. It no longer seems that rules of magic are something writers care about, sadly

      Well, I can agree about that. The writers care little for magic rules. According to their logic, "Rules are meant to be broken" even though the first step of magic building is recognizing limiltations and rules because they are more interesting.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      FrancisPaul wrote:

      Rockchick 19 wrote:
      I thought that Alice was from Victorian England which is 1837-1901, with the original novel having been written in 1865 and the sequel in 1871.
      My point is: IF they are that careless about details as to create a whole "fictional England" thing to justify timeline issues, there's no way to be sure that in Alice's world Queen Victoria ruled in 1950, for instance.
      What does 1950 have to do with anything? The Victorian England/ Victorian world is a perpetual state of being in the Victorian period. Years go by but the technology and science does not progress. Time obviously moves forward and is the same flow as the other worlds.

      I meant Cruella's 1920 England might be the same as Alice's 18-something

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    • FrancisPaul wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:

      FrancisPaul wrote:

      Rockchick 19 wrote:
      I thought that Alice was from Victorian England which is 1837-1901, with the original novel having been written in 1865 and the sequel in 1871.
      My point is: IF they are that careless about details as to create a whole "fictional England" thing to justify timeline issues, there's no way to be sure that in Alice's world Queen Victoria ruled in 1950, for instance.
      What does 1950 have to do with anything? The Victorian England/ Victorian world is a perpetual state of being in the Victorian period. Years go by but the technology and science does not progress. Time obviously moves forward and is the same flow as the other worlds.

      I meant Cruella's 1920 England might be the same as Alice's 18-something

      It should be. I'll just pretend that the press release doesn't know anything.

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    • Yay, the Peddler and current Author is named Isaac. Now we need the Apprentice's name and the Sorcerer's name!

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    • The actress that played Alice's daugther is the same girl who is playing a young Cruella. What the crap?! 

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    • WorldHopper22 wrote:
      The actress that played Alice's daugther is the same girl who is playing a young Cruella. What the crap?! 

      I am hoping that is intended. Probably not, but I still hope

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    • It's probably not. Most on the main show wouldn't recognize her and they are just likely just using a familiar actress.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      It's probably not. Most on the main show wouldn't recognize her and they are just likely just using a familiar actress.

      If this is true, than this sucks. Are Adam and Eddy acting like nobody watched OUaTiW?

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    • WorldHopper22 wrote: The actress that played Alice's daugther is the same girl who is playing a young Cruella. What the crap?! 

      Haha, this is hilarious. It's gonna become an headcanon, Cruella is Alice's daughter.

      And Cruella is also apparently the woman of the author, I like the sound of that.

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    • WorldHopper22 wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:
      It's probably not. Most on the main show wouldn't recognize her and they are just likely just using a familiar actress.

      If this is true, than this sucks. Are Adam and Eddy acting like nobody watched OUaTiW?

      Well, Will mentioned Penelope in this episode and they act like Ana doesn't exist and that Will apparently first met Robin in Oz.

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    • Tbf, they don't act like Ana doesn't exist, she was referenced indirectly in episode 4.04, and no one said Will and Robin necessarily met in the Enchanted Forest.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      My goodness a 1920s Fictional England. How many Englands do we need! It better be the same as Alice's.

      One for each important literary period, so about 12 I guess, lol.

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    • Rena Charming wrote: Tbf, they don't act like Ana doesn't exist, she was referenced indirectly in episode 4.04, and no one said Will and Robin necessarily met in the Enchanted Forest.

      True, but they won't explain it until like season 5b! No other mention besides the pic while he was drunk. Let Will and Belle talk about lost lovers or something.

      Not my main point, but how did he travel to EF. A magical bean?

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    • So, between the press release, the BTS pics, and the cast, I'm extremely excited but also confused. We have a fictional England set in the 1920's, where Cruella and The Author (now named Issac) are appearently from and dating, but Cruella is blonde (and assumably not magical); we have dalmations, which somehow connect to Pongo according to Adam; we have Young Cruella, being played by the same actress as Alice's daughter; we have a new actress named Madaline (I'm assuming that's Cruella's mom); we have a boat load of dancers; and finally Cruella and Issac somehow wind up in the EF, and Cruella gets a makeover and animal control powers. So like I said, excited but confused. Also, I agree that Young Cruella is not connected to Alice's daughter, but because they liked the actress and Alice's daughter was such a minor role, they decided to cast her as Young Cruella. I don't think it will look that bad, anyway, because Alice's daughter had dark hair (which I guess was a wig), and Cruella will have blonde hair (which is the natural hair color for both Victoria and Milie). I bet none of us would even know it was the same actress if we didn't have her name.

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    • I've uploaded the promo and bts photos, find them here.

      I'm very, very excited for this episode. Cruella's backstory is way different than I imagined, and I'm intrigued by how different she looks, not just the hair, but without all the dramatic makeup (her eyebrows alone are so intense, I wonder how much eye makeup remover she uses in a week? XD )

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      WorldHopper22 wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:
      It's probably not. Most on the main show wouldn't recognize her and they are just likely just using a familiar actress.
      If this is true, than this sucks. Are Adam and Eddy acting like nobody watched OUaTiW?
      Well, Will mentioned Penelope in this episode and they act like Ana doesn't exist and that Will apparently first met Robin in Oz.

      In the Wonderland flashback, the Merry Men were an established and famed group already, while Robin has just founded them in the last episode, so it is probably before Will even met Anastasia. But yeah, I'd like a mention of her, she was my favourite Wonderland character. :/ As for how Will got to the Enchanted Forest, Oz is a magical land, there's plenty of ways to travel between them.

      Back on topic, I love they made Cruella come from a different realm than the Enchanted Forest, given how peculiar her fashion sense is compared to the others. I'm just hoping they're not creating yet another magical-but-not-really world that has no other narrative function but to suit their needs. Victorian England was enough of an eyebrow raiser to me.

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    • what if the author was stuck in the portal because he was trying to write Cruella a happy ending?

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    • I'm looking forward to the dance scene. With so many dancers cast, I reckon they'll be like a Charleston scene which is hearder than any ball scene they've done so they have to credit the dancers :)

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    • Wait, I thought Alice's daughter and young Cruella are two different actresses

      One is played by Milli Wilkinson while the other is played by Amelia Wilkinson

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    • My dear Cruella, please say this line 

      "The Queen may be Evil and the Witch may be Wicked, but I'm Cruel. And Cruel always wins."

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    • Nicolas Frost wrote: Wait, I thought Alice's daughter and young Cruella are two different actresses

      One is played by Milli Wilkinson while the other is played by Amelia Wilkinson

      They're the same person.

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    • the plot for the episode got me by surprise but I love it. Cruella has history with the author (now Isaac) in a fictional 1920's England (so there are multiple versions of England? like Alice has her 1800s England, The Darlings have the real England and Cruella has the 1920's England). I hoped that Cruella would be from the LWM and got sent to the EF and back but I guess it will do. Cruella has now gone to Zelena level by threatening Henry. And finally, yet another villain with an abusive parent/Family member. I'm not saying that it is a bad thing but it's getting repetitive.

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    • To be fair, I don't mind see more villains come from abusive parents. Like it was said on the show "Evil isn't born, it's made", and it is mostly our childhood and our parents who defines our morals mostly. On the other hand, I although know a lot of people who went in the extreme opposite of their parents' worldview during a rebelling phase in their teens, could be interesting to see something like that sometimes (like Jiminy and his parents back in season One)

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    • I love Cruella as Author's woman! What I hope now is that they give her a real name. Who would name their child "Cruella" anyway? 

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    • Cruella's mother would :)

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    • Ahh the 20's.... The jazz, the dances, the style, the attire, the "F U" probation attitude... The world had such class.... In glad Cruella is one of the younger villains but was she suppose to be some kinda Daisy Buchanan Cinderella???? What slimy snake the author is....

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    • i'm a little late to the party, i think.  just got caught up on the wiki episode page.  EEK!!!  i am so jazzed for this episode.  it's going to be the bee's knees.  i love the roaring 20s and am really into the incorporation into Cruella's backstory.  i think she's going to nail her episode. 

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    • I also hope to see the past between Rumple and Cruella, she seemed scared when she saw him in Maleficent's castle...

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    • I bet cruella's happy ending is being reunited w/ her mother Madeline(she is OUAT's take on her?) cause ursula got her happy ending by being reunited with her father and gaining back her voice. This could be the same for cruella cause judging from the promo, she told the author to give her back what he took from her. 

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    • FrancisPaul wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      FrancisPaul wrote: Well, at the point things are right now, time, past, future, age and all are relative. The author might have made her grow old, go back in time, travel to the future, then become a child again, anything XD

      I will respectfully disagree with you. The Author has shown no such power and it's quite speculative to think he has other powers than to override free will and record. According to what has been shown, Cruella's story comes before Alice's since Adult Cruella was in EF, while Alice was still growing up and meeting Cyrus.
      I meant the Apprentice/Sorcerer.

      Of course you can disagree, and of course it is far-fetched. But I wouldn't be surprised if that turned out to be true. It no longer seems that rules of magic are something writers care about, sadly

      I'd like to disagree with you because I think that the creators DO care and have always maintained the rules of magic to be constant throughout the series. Rumple said that "dead is dead." Graham and Neal died and they both didn't return. Mother Superior didn't die because her shadow was ripped from her and then she got it back. As for Mal, she was undead because Regina sustained her in whatever form she was in, and Emma destroyed her dragon form. As for Zelena, she didn't die because as she said that her life force merely fled her body and activated the time portal. Glinda told Zelena that without her pendant, she would have no powers, essentially it would be her life. Unfortunately for her, since Regina stole her pendant, she was caught off-guard by Rumple when he stabbed her in the jail cell. She didn't die as the pendant still contained her power, which sustained her life. 

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    • The sypnosis says that cruellas mother use dalmatians to terrorize her. I don't think being reunited with her mother will be her happy ending.

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    • I hesitate to suggest it, but could Pongo perhaps be a part of Cruella's happy ending?

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    • In the CTV promo Cruella asks the author to bring back what he took. so I think her happy ending could be something similar to Ursulas's, I mean, geting something that was taken from her. Yes, probably Pongo has something to do with it, since they said that Pongo's family will appear... 

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    • Maybe Pongo used to be her little puppy and basically the only one who could cheer her up.

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    • The Author is writing in some of the promo pics... I wonder if he directly influences Cruella (as he did the Apprentice) or just "pushes" her along a new path (Like Snowing)?

      Further, I wonder how many other stories he's manipulated?

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    • Utter solitude wrote: The Author is writing in some of the promo pics... I wonder if he directly influences Cruella (as he did the Apprentice) or just "pushes" her along a new path (Like Snowing)?

      Further, I wonder how many other stories he's manipulated?

      But it looks like a normal pen there, but then again I'm not sure.

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    • It's definitely a quill, in somewhat of a pen style, but distinctive from the one he was using in "Best Laid Plans".

      It would seem he doesn't need any one particular quill, as long as it's enchanted, so he may have several.

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    • DarKingdomHearts wrote:
      Maybe Pongo used to be her little puppy and basically the only one who could cheer her up.

      The writers said Cruella's backstory had to do with Pongo's grandparents, if I'm not mistaken. He's a bit too young to be part of Cruella's backstory.

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    • Wasn't the novel and the animated Disney film set more in the late 1950s/early 1960s? I mean, it still works in a 1920s setting (assuming the bulk of her story occurs in that time, it might not), but it's interesting they've noted the decade.

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      The Author is writing in some of the promo pics... I wonder if he directly influences Cruella (as he did the Apprentice) or just "pushes" her along a new path (Like Snowing)?

      Further, I wonder how many other stories he's manipulated?

      Well, I think the point here is that maybe he wasn't still an author during Cruellas's backstory... It happens in a different world, it's unlikely that the author writes  stories from 1920's England, but who knows...

      I wonder if Isaac took something from her in order to travel to the Enchanted Forest and become an author

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    • You have an interesting point, I hadn't thought of it that way. I assumed he travels to various realms, manipulating stories.

      He's definitely writing something, but that could be anything.

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    • Maybe the author took away Perdita or the puppies or both? Oh! Maybe he took away J&H???

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    • I've actually been watching the live-action 101 Dalmatians XD Jaspar and Horace make the movie for me.

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      I've actually been watching the live-action 101 Dalmatians XD Jaspar and Horace make the movie for me.


      Especially the fence scene Hahaha!

      While you can never go wrong with the great Glen Close, I like this Cruella more.... (Please forgive me Andrew Loyd Webber.)

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    • I'm confused, how do the 101 Dalmatians and Andrew Lloyd Webber mix? My Google search was somewhat inconclusive (and very, very superficial :P).

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    • DZAV21 wrote:

      Especially the fence scene Hahaha!

      While you can never go wrong with the great Glen Close, I like this Cruella more.... (Please forgive me Andrew Loyd Webbed.)

      Glenn Close does a magnificent Cruella, but in an over the top, frightening young children sort of way. Victoria Smurfit is a lot more subtle, especially since we know so little of her history, and I really enjoy it.

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    • Isn't it when she was young is in the 1920's? So it would still make sense for her to be the age that she is in the movie,

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    • Anything is possible, although she, and the people in the background, are dressed in the fairly distinctive 1920s style in promo pics.

      It wouldn't bother me either way, we don't know how heavily they're going to adapt the The One Hundred and One Dalmatians story, but imo it can definitely work in the '20s.

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    • Rena Charming wrote:
      I'm confused, how do the 101 Dalmatians and Andrew Lloyd Webber mix? My Google search was somewhat inconclusive (and very, very superficial :P).


      She was one of his stars. She was Norma Desmond in his prductiin of Sunset Boulevard. I've always adored the women and A. Loyd Webber is one of my heroes.... Just go on Youtube and type in The Royal Albert Hall Celebration "With One Look" and you will see what I mean..

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    • DarKingdomHearts wrote:
      Maybe Pongo used to be her little puppy and basically the only one who could cheer her up.

      i think that pongo was once a person. and the author caused sh*t to happen that messed things up.

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    • Apparently, Regina will take Belle's heart in this episode.   

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    • 8Rob wrote: Apparently, Regina will take Belle's heart in this episode.   

      Yeah, Belle must be a forgiving person.

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    • 8Rob wrote: Apparently, Regina will take Belle's heart in this episode.   

      Based on what?

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    • Oh, dear, that sounds just about like the Evil Queen.

      Gold: I guess having your Boyfriend under control is going to keep you in my power.

      Regina: Guess again, Rumple.  ** Reaches over and Rips Belle's heart out **

      Belle: WTF, Regina.

      Gold: I don't think you want to go there, dearie.

      Regina: Oh, you went there first, I'm just leveling the playing field.  Robin dies, this heart is dust. Now, how 'bout we make a NEW deal?

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    • so where did u see the theft

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    • It was posted in the ABC recap of the last episode. It seems that it was mistakenly posted from the next episode, and everyone is assuming that it is a spoiler. It was taken down very soon after being posted. It sounds like the most logical step for Regina, honestly. I doubt that she will take Belle's heart without explaining the situation first. I really think that Belle would be willing to trust/help Regina to save Robin. Regina has come a very long way, so I doubt she would go into the situation to hurt Belle. 

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    • I like that idea. and in fact, I could see Regina setting some things up ahead of time. like maybe taking Belle's heart and putting it in a place for safe keeping, then replacing it with one of her other hearts so that she does not accidentally do something.

      Also, it is interesting that Belle is dating Will, since Will can probably help Belle during any time that she is without a heart, having been there himself. (which might also be another way to bring viewers not in the know up to speed on that part of his past).

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    • Gosh, what I would give for a heartless Belle confronting Rumple. No feelings, no seeing the best in him, no stuff like that: it would be crushing for him, and he would deserve every bit of it. <3

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    • Yeah seeing Belle go postal on Rumple again would be awesome! It was cool when she banished him, but if she was able to get mad at him again while having no heart.... Wow

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    • I think Reginas comment " Oh please, I was torturing people back in the enchanted forest while you were still playing with puppies" is going to make a lot more sense in the upcoming episode.

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    • D.Prince wrote:
      I think Reginas comment " Oh please, I was torturing people back in the enchanted forest while you were still playing with puppies" is going to make a lot more sense in the upcoming episode.

      While it might become more relevant, I thought it made perfect sense when Regina first made it. That's just the type of snarky, sassy comment Regina would make to Cruella, regardless of veracity.

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    • Hmcooper4 wrote:

      D.Prince wrote:
      I think Reginas comment " Oh please, I was torturing people back in the enchanted forest while you were still playing with puppies" is going to make a lot more sense in the upcoming episode.

      While it might become more relevant, I thought it made perfect sense when Regina first made it. That's just the type of snarky, sassy comment Regina would make to Cruella, regardless of veracity.

      I agree, but with this episode will we see even more about it.

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    • Seeing the new preview I'm awe in shock and Cruella is definetly meeting her end at Maleficent's hands it looks like.

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    • FanoftheMagicMirror wrote:
      Seeing the new preview I'm awe in shock and Cruella is definetly meeting her end at Maleficent's hands it looks like.

      Which new preview?

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    • Well it's not on here yet but I saw it on ew.com.

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    • Can I just say..... I FREAKING LOVE CRUELLA!!!!!! Go Go Team Cruella! Go Go Cruella! Mighty Dragon Taming Cruella!!! ITS PUPPY TIME!

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    • I can say it a hundred times over! Cruella rules! Commanding Dragon Maleficent like that is just wonderful (Maleficent should have just shanked her with a sleeping curse!). I love Cruella too! She's just so... well, cruel. Leaving a baby to die in the woods and taking it's only protection to help keep yourself young (and probably enchant her car) is just so evil.

      Link to the sneak peek is here, but first it's not Evil or Wicked that wins, but Cruelty: http://www.ew.com/article/2015/04/16/once-upon-time-sneak-peek-maleficent-confronts-cruella-about-lily

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    • funny that she is doing the most dangerous thing i can even think of which is kidnapping henry who is family to the most powerfull people in storybrooke i would say there is a good chance of death.

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    • Well Maleficent won't be happy once she's back on human form but boy Cruella is CRUEL! 

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      Link to the sneak peek is here, but first it's not Evil or Wicked that wins, but Cruelty: http://www.ew.com/article/2015/04/16/once-upon-time-sneak-peek-maleficent-confronts-cruella-about-lily

      I always knew, that Cruella was the most intelligent of the Queens of Darkness!

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    • i like ruthlessness but damn shell be pissed when she  wakes up

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    • Nakis91 wrote: Well Maleficent won't be happy once she's back on human form but boy Cruella is CRUEL! 

      Yeah, you see how she's so blunt about things. "Well, I'm a terrible person." She was able to use her one and only power to it's maximum potential. However, Mal would you really think turning into a dragon against animal controlling whisperer Cruella is a wise idea. Mal should know her powers, maybe she didn't think she could be controlled by Cruella. Side-note: I hate how they make a powerful sorceress of Mal and make her seemingly have one power, like Ursula was. Ursula ruled the seas and had powers of the deity Ursula and mermaid powers and used only the tentacles. Mal has town-size sleeping spells, pyrokinesis, yet only turns in to a dragon.

      Sidenote aside! Cruella isn't thinking smart to go against Emma and Regina. She should have sent Mal after them too to at least have some back up.

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:

      Link to the sneak peek is here, but first it's not Evil or Wicked that wins, but Cruelty: http://www.ew.com/article/2015/04/16/once-upon-time-sneak-peek-maleficent-confronts-cruella-about-lily

      I always knew, that Cruella was the most intelligent of the Queens of Darkness!

      Well, she is from 1920s England. She aught to know something! She used her powers to the advantage or else she would have been dead.

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    • Thomas762 wrote:
      i like ruthlessness but damn shell be pissed when she  wakes up

      Something tells me that Maleficent is not going to wake up, until after Cruella leaves Storybrooke.

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    • And this is why Cruelly is my favourite Queen of Darkness. She's intelligent, cruel, and is not ashamed of her cruelty. I hope she doesn't die, but it seems like she will meet her end this episode. It would be cool if she stays so she can cause havoc once in a while in season 5.

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    • The Red-Orange-Fuschia-Queen wrote: And this is why Cruelly is my favourite Queen of Darkness. She's intelligent, cruel, and is not ashamed of her cruelty. I hope she doesn't die, but it seems like she will meet her end this episode. It would be cool if she stays so she can cause havoc once in a while in season 5.

      I hope so too. But Cruella seems to be going out in a blaze of glory. Controlling a powerful dragon-witch, threatening the son of two powerful sorceresses, and going after the Author who's in Rumple's possession. She seems to be alerting every powerful being in Storybrooke. I hope she doesn't die. Maybe she can be turned into an animal we see run off and return later on in another season.

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    • Cruella did that to Lily for vanity. I like that we need more vain villains.

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    • Great! The new clip made me think of Every Little Piece from Pete's Dragon and now i can't stop singing it... Oh that should be Cruella's new theme song.

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    • henry is rumpelstiltskins last grandchild somthing tells me that ge is not going to be too happy about him getting kidnapped.

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    • Thomas762 wrote: henry is rumpelstiltskins last grandchild somthing tells me that ge is not going to be too happy about him getting kidnapped.

      Excuse me. Henry is his only grandchild.

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    • lol, i ment last piece of his family.

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    • I don't much see Cruella surviving. Maleficent, Regina and Emma are all three after her so the odds aren't very good for her.

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    • Here's my theory here

      Roger and Anita= Cruella's parents

      Pongo and Perdita= Dalmations her mother threatens her with

      Just a theory 

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    • Or what if they somehow use magic to turn her into an animal?

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    • Tysonjackson wrote: Or what if they somehow use magic to turn her into an animal?

      This is what I hope! Maybe a Dalmatian, and let her have a possibility of a return. I mean they could always just toss her in the asylum or visit Archie for help.

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    • Agh please don't let Perdita be Cruella's mom....

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    • The QOD are falling apart fast now.

      The explanation of why Cruella and Ursula didn't age was kind of confusing. do dragon eggs give you eternal youth or something? Cruella is one of the only villains on the show other than Rumple (I may be wrong on this) that out right says she's a terrible person, no chance of redemption. as much as I love sympathetic villains, her just saying she's a terrible person is wonderful (she may be a sympathetic villain after her backstory though).

      also, Mal made a really bad move when she transformed. she could have cast a sleeping curse or something that doesn't require turning into something Cruella can control. Cruella's going to be a dead woman walking once she wakes up.

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    • SnowKingTE wrote:
      The explanation of why Cruella and Ursula didn't age was kind of confusing. do dragon eggs give you eternal youth or something?


      I think they just reused the magic from the egg. Look Regina in s1, she used the magic from her ring to gain the ability to use magic in the LWM. I think it is prolly something similar in this case :)

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    • Lady Junky wrote:
      SnowKingTE wrote:
      The explanation of why Cruella and Ursula didn't age was kind of confusing. do dragon eggs give you eternal youth or something?

      I think they just reused the magic from the egg. Look Regina in s1, she used the magic from her ring to gain the ability to use magic in the LWM. I think it is prolly something similar in this case :)

      Maleficent is a dragon and an immortal because of that, so maybe it's connected.

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    • I just watched the second sneak peek and man, Cruella is gonna have some trouble. I do hope she has a defense plan ready.

      By the way, is 4B supposed to be happening in two days? They only changed outfits once. And thats where "Nine weeks agao" becomes a plot-hole. 

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    • I'm starting to have a feeling that Cruella is gonna die in this episode and Emma might be the one who kills her.

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    • Brzoskwinia wrote:

      Maleficent is a dragon and an immortal because of that, so maybe it's connected.

      Woah !!! Great theory ...

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    • Nakis91 wrote: I just watched the second sneak peek and man, Cruella is gonna have some trouble. I do hope she has a defense plan ready.

      By the way, is 4B supposed to be happening in two days? They only changed outfits once. And thats where "Nine weeks agao" becomes a plot-hole. 

      I think it's saying that from the Chernabog and the fairies to the freeing of the Author is suppose to be three weeks. Which if you think about it makes literally zero sense because what did Cruella and Ursula do after raising Maleficent, just sit around. The whole Unforgiven to now is at most a week to a day or three. The first two episodes where at least around the same time. It also makes Rumple's plan seem odd. He said to make friends and alliances and show them that you've changed and an episode later they already evilly take about ripping hearts and resurrect Maleficent.

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    • Can someone post a link to the second sneak peek?

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    • Hi Rena,

      For whatever reason, the video will not show in firefox or safari for me. Any suggestions? Thanks

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    • Just look it up on YouTube, try "once upon a time 4x18 sneak peek", I'm sure both will come up. If that doesn't work, try 4x19 instead of 4x18 (remember that episode 4x08 this season made people number the episodes differently after it :P).

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    • We have the sneak peek on the episode page -> Sympathy for the De Vil :) Should be easier ;)

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    • Now Cruella have so much trouble. Three angry mothers want to kill her. She will be very very lucky if stay alive after this episode.

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    • Wonder how Gold factors into all of this. It's his grandson, after all. I just can't tell if he cares or not anymore, he keeps going back and forth with where he stands on Henry it seems.

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    • It's a toss-up really who is going to kill Cruella. With those three gunning for her, she has no chance. I think that Emma will want to, but I think Regina will stop her. Either Regina will kill Cruella, or Mal will if she has a chance to. I'm excited though because that means that Mal is brought into the folds of the heroes, at least for now. I'm really hoping for a scene between Regina and Mal... I would love it if Mal defended Regina/Henry. 

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    • You know, everyone is posting how cruel and intelligent she is.  I will go with Cruel, but she must be dumb, crazy, and suicidal.  She is going to manage to piss off 4 of the most powerful Magicians in ANY realm, and she only has power against one of them, and only if Mal chooses her Dragon form (which after the first lizard nap, will probably not happen).  Cruella is going to single-handedly cause the formation of the new Queens of Darkness (Mal, Emma, Regina).

      As much as I like Cruella, I see her becoming so much Puppy Chow.

      Oh, plot twist. (Speculation/Fanfiction on my part). Pongo is decended from the dalmations her mom used to torment Cruella, and just happens to be immune to Cruella's wily ways.  He is the one that is going to end up killing Cruella.

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    • Hmcooper4 wrote: You know, everyone is posting how cruel and intelligent she is.  I will go with Cruel, but she must be dumb, crazy, and suicidal.  She is going to manage to piss off 4 of the most powerful Magicians in ANY realm, and she only has power against one of them, and only if Mal chooses her Dragon form (which after the first lizard nap, will probably not happen).  Cruella is going to single-handedly cause the formation of the new Queens of Darkness (Mal, Emma, Regina).

      As much as I like Cruella, I see her becoming so much Puppy Chow.

      Oh, plot twist. (Speculation/Fanfiction on my part). Pongo is decended from the dalmations her mom used to torment Cruella, and just happens to be immune to Cruella's wily ways.  He is the one that is going to end up killing Cruella.

      Then they would have to put Pongo down, right?

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      Hmcooper4 wrote: You know, everyone is posting how cruel and intelligent she is.  I will go with Cruel, but she must be dumb, crazy, and suicidal.  She is going to manage to piss off 4 of the most powerful Magicians in ANY realm, and she only has power against one of them, and only if Mal chooses her Dragon form (which after the first lizard nap, will probably not happen).  Cruella is going to single-handedly cause the formation of the new Queens of Darkness (Mal, Emma, Regina).

      As much as I like Cruella, I see her becoming so much Puppy Chow.

      Oh, plot twist. (Speculation/Fanfiction on my part). Pongo is decended from the dalmations her mom used to torment Cruella, and just happens to be immune to Cruella's wily ways.  He is the one that is going to end up killing Cruella.

      Then they would have to put Pongo down, right?

      No, unless they were concerned that he contracted Rabies or something.  Police and Military Dogs are trained, and they don't get put down if something happens.

      Besides, Pongo is at least partially Henry's Dog, anyway, isn't he? (Thinking back to the Cricket Game).  Pongo is just protecting one of his Master's.

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    • Hmcooper4 wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:

      Hmcooper4 wrote: You know, everyone is posting how cruel and intelligent she is.  I will go with Cruel, but she must be dumb, crazy, and suicidal.  She is going to manage to piss off 4 of the most powerful Magicians in ANY realm, and she only has power against one of them, and only if Mal chooses her Dragon form (which after the first lizard nap, will probably not happen).  Cruella is going to single-handedly cause the formation of the new Queens of Darkness (Mal, Emma, Regina).

      As much as I like Cruella, I see her becoming so much Puppy Chow.

      Oh, plot twist. (Speculation/Fanfiction on my part). Pongo is decended from the dalmations her mom used to torment Cruella, and just happens to be immune to Cruella's wily ways.  He is the one that is going to end up killing Cruella.

      Then they would have to put Pongo down, right?

      No, unless they were concerned that he contracted Rabies or something.  Police and Military Dogs are trained, and they don't get put down if something happens.

      Besides, Pongo is at least partially Henry's Dog, anyway, isn't he? (Thinking back to the Cricket Game).  Pongo is just protecting one of his Master's.

      A dog that attacked a person is a problem that should get fixed. Pongo isn't Henry's dog. Henry likely never saw Pongo for like a year and a half. Just imagine Pongo ripping out Cruella's throat. I'd be worried!

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    • I think in the context of 101 Dalmations, and being a "fairy tale", and the fact that Pongo and Cruella are enemies (of sorts), we can overlook him attacking Cruella.

      Besides, there have been cases where an intruder/burglar was severely mauled by a family pet protecting its area. And nothing (as far as I know) is done against the dog.

      Having said that, I will say that, on a more general level, I agree that a dog that attacks should be investigated. But it is not always a problem.

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    • "Your dreadful son" haha!

      Honestly I wouldn't mind if Emma was the one to kill her, she hasn't killed any villains yet.

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    • If authorities hear about a dog bite/attack (at least in reality!) it's investigated. The circumstances are looked at, and shots may be given (any animal and even human bites almost always result in tetanus shots, and rabies, depending on the animal). However, Pongo is an owned dog (and let's assume he's licensed and vaccinated) and Henry doesn't have to own him for Pongo to want to protect him, or for the dog to be justified in doing so. If it occurred in the real world, nothing would happen as a result.


      Wouldn't it be interesting if Emma killed someone!? (maybe not Cruella, just in general) I think it could be a good moral dilemma for her, much more than it was for MM.

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      If authorities hear about a dog bite/attack (at least in reality!) it's investigated. The circumstances are looked at, and shots may be given (any animal and even human bites almost always result in tetanus shots, and rabies, depending on the animal). However, Pongo is an owned dog (and let's assume he's licensed and vaccinated) and Henry doesn't have to own him for Pongo to want to protect him, or for the dog to be justified in doing so. If it occurred in the real world, nothing would happen as a result.----

      Wouldn't it be interesting if Emma killed someone!? (maybe not Cruella, just in general) I think it could be a good moral dilemma for her, much more than it was for MM.

      this isnt real life LOL

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    • DZAV21 wrote:
      Agh please don't let Perdita be Cruella's mom....

      she will be named madeline. i hope the dogs are named perdita, anita, and roger. 

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    • Tails-make-the-fox wrote:

      this isnt real life LOL

      Did I say it was? XD I was responding to the discussion about Pongo attacking Cruella and what should happen to him.


      For the sake of pointing it out, I believe the humans were unnamed (Just Mr. and Mrs. Dealy) in the novel, and the adult female dog (Perdita) was just referred to as "Missus" XD Only Pongo had a real name.

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    • Would Emma taking a life really pose much of a moral dilemma for her? Keep in mind she wanted to gun Peter Pan down outside of the town line in 3.10. That WAS the purpose, right?

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    • As far as Pongo's involvement in this episode is concerned, somehow I believe he merely has a cameo and that Cruella uses her magic on him to lure Henry to her. He spots Pongo, "Hey boy come here!", dog leads him to Cruella. Know what I mean? Would be cool if Pongo ultimately defeated Cruella somehow, but I think we all know that's not gonna happen. :P

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    • Rena Charming wrote:
      As far as Pongo's involvement in this episode is concerned, somehow I believe he merely has a cameo and that Cruella uses her magic on him to lure Henry to her. He spots Pongo, "Hey boy come here!", dog leads him to Cruella. Know what I mean? Would be cool if Pongo ultimately defeated Cruella somehow, but I think we all know that's not gonna happen. :P


      I don't think it'll be just a cameo: A&E said we'll see Pongo's lineage ^^

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    • Well I hope so, that'd be cool. I'd really like to know where Pongo comes from.

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    • Probably Pongo is a descendant of the dalmatians of Cruella's mom

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    • Anubis16 wrote:
      Here's my theory here

      Roger and Anita= Cruella's parents

      Pongo and Perdita= Dalmations her mother threatens her with

      Just a theory 

      Cruella's mom is Madaline, but I could see the dogs named Roger and Anita or something. Don't think they will use Pongo, because that will be confusing with SB's Pongo, and Adam and Eddy already implyed he's a decendant of Cruella's mother's dogs.

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    • Utter solitude wrote:

      Tails-make-the-fox wrote:

      this isnt real life LOL

      Did I say it was? XD I was responding to the discussion about Pongo attacking Cruella and what should happen to him.----

      For the sake of pointing it out, I believe the humans were unnamed (Just Mr. and Mrs. Dealy) in the novel, and the adult female dog (Perdita) was just referred to as "Missus" XD Only Pongo had a real name.

      Your mostly right. The adult humans are just Mr. and Mrs. Dearly, but their are actually two sets of adult dalmations Pongo and Missus, and Perdita and Prince. Perdita is basically brought in at to help Missus with her litter of puppies, so she's like a nanny, but for the puppies, lol. And she finds her "husband" Prince at the end of the novel, as he had been missing. The Dearly's wind up keeping all four of them, Missus's litter of 15, and all the other dalmations Cruella had stolen, adding up to a total of 101, thus the title of the book.

      If anyone wants more information, they can refer to our story page: http://onceuponatime.wikia.com/wiki/The_Hundred_and_One_Dalmatians

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    • Thanks for the clarification XD It's been over a decade since I read the novel XD

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    • I wonder how long does Cruellas persuation is going to last on Maleficent? I think she should have use Mal to protect herself, I don't think that her gun is enough XD

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    • D.Prince wrote: I wonder how long does Cruellas persuation is going to last on Maleficent? I think she should have use Mal to protect herself, I don't think that her gun is enough XD

      Well, she told Mal to take a nap, so it'll probably wear off when she wakes.

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    • If Cruella & Ursula had just take some of that dragon egg and invented a anti-aging cream, they'd have been billionaires...

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    • I think Maleficent dragon form is getting overused. 

      It's not impresive anymore. Now I expect her to do it every time she is on screen

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    • 8Rob wrote: I think Maleficent dragon form is getting overused. 

      It's not impresive anymore. Now I expect her to do it every time she is on screen

      They act like she's only capable of two spells.

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    • Assuming the old lady is her mother but whose the albino girl?

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