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  • Okay that was really sad and tragic that she ended up dying and even more sad because Ingrid actually didn't mean to kill her sister. Gerda was mortified by that and made sure it never happened again. The fact that Ingrid was looking for Emma to replace Helga, means that she was probably looking for someone who was very similar with a moral compass and stuff, but also has powers. Did any of you guys like Helga?

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    • I loved Helga! She has Anna's personality and mind set. Too bad she died.

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    • Her sister Gerda was a bitch though. And it looks like karma had it out for her because even with forgetting about Helga and Ingrid, she had a daughter with Ingrid's powers and a daughter like herself so she was basically forced to deal with that crap all over again.

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    • And the biggest karma was being killed in a shipwreck and having all the truth spill out, instead of speaking out sooner, having her two daughters face their misunderstood aunt alone.

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    • Yeah. In Regina's words "All actions have consequences."

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    • Mhmmm. So much for Gerda being there for her sisters. :/

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    • Yes. I think even Zelena wouldn't have turned her back on Regina if she knew all the hell Regina had been through and being affected by the Cora Aura.

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    • Exactly! If Zelena was still around, I would love to see an episode where the two of them HAVE to work together. And I have a feeling they would set aside their differences and have each other's backs. 

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    • I heard Zelena would be back or something in an article. I miss her.

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    • Do you have a link to the article? I miss her too.

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    • I found it through google.

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    • QuinnHeartly wrote:
      Do you have a link to the article? I miss her too.

      Again in their TV Guide interview, both showrunners confirmed with a resounding “yes” that Zelena, or The Wicked Witchwill return in Season 4. 


      http://www.bustle.com/articles/23938-once-upon-a-time-season-4-spoiler-based-predictions-for-the-storybrooke-gang

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    • Dan Fox wrote:
      Her sister Gerda was a bitch though. And it looks like karma had it out for her because even with forgetting about Helga and Ingrid, she had a daughter with Ingrid's powers and a daughter like herself so she was basically forced to deal with that crap all over again.

      Elsa being born with ice powers, was the price Gerda had to pay, for using such a powerful forgetting spell.... Grand Pabbie hinted that.

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    • I felt bad for Helga she did not deserve she was full of life and had beauty and grace and so sweet. I don't get why she shattered right away hopefully her pieces will somehow come back in a way and hopefully she can be restored or she might be seen as an angel if Ingrid ever finds redemption when and if she's defeated. But still Helga was wonderful and it was tragic what happened to her.

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    • Eruciform wrote:
      QuinnHeartly wrote:
      Do you have a link to the article? I miss her too.
      Again in their TV Guide interview, both showrunners confirmed with a resounding “yes” that Zelena, or The Wicked Witchwill return in Season 4. 


      http://www.bustle.com/articles/23938-once-upon-a-time-season-4-spoiler-based-predictions-for-the-storybrooke-gang


      Thanks! I'm so super excited to see Zelena again!

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    • QuinnHeartly wrote:
      Eruciform wrote:
      QuinnHeartly wrote:
      Do you have a link to the article? I miss her too.
      Again in their TV Guide interview, both showrunners confirmed with a resounding “yes” that Zelena, or The Wicked Witchwill return in Season 4. 


      http://www.bustle.com/articles/23938-once-upon-a-time-season-4-spoiler-based-predictions-for-the-storybrooke-gang


      Thanks! I'm so super excited to see Zelena again!

      This is outdated. It implies that Zelana will come back in the early episodes of season 4 and belle will be the main targer for her. So I guess its been overdue, perhaps no Wicked Witch, although, could have made season 4 better if they had a wicked witch added to the cast. 

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    • Eruciform wrote:
      QuinnHeartly wrote:
      Do you have a link to the article? I miss her too.
      Again in their TV Guide interview, both showrunners confirmed with a resounding “yes” that Zelena, or The Wicked Witchwill return in Season 4.


      http://www.bustle.com/articles/23938-once-upon-a-time-season-4-spoiler-based-predictions-for-the-storybrooke-gang

      no. No. NO!!!

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    • A part of me is holding out hope that Helga was preserved somehow but someone. She was such a good character and it was tragic to watch her die in the same episode she was introduced.

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    • I wonder if Ingrid remembers this when she got out of the urn. Since Elsa doesn't know how she got inside the urn, how can Ingrid know it? Elsa got out of the urn in 2013 in our world and she immediately didn't remember. So Ingrid can't have removed her memories. I just need to see the episode in which we see how Elsa got trapped...

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    • Dr. Kangaroo wrote:
      I wonder if Ingrid remembers this when she got out of the urn. Since Elsa doesn't know how she got inside the urn, how can Ingrid know it? Elsa got out of the urn in 2013 in our world and she immediately didn't remember. So Ingrid can't have removed her memories. I just need to see the episode in which we see how Elsa got trapped...

      Most logical explanation is that since we know Ingrid can wipe memories (like with Emma) she did the same with Elsa before Elsa was put in the urn.

      Also, I wish every villain had a Helga in their life! Regina could've coped with Daniel's loss, Rumple would've had someone to curb his homocidal tendencies (at least for about 20-30 years), etc. I wish Helga somehow comes back as Ingrid's hallucination or something. One of the best characters we've ever had and I hate the Duke of Weaselton for her death.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Dr. Kangaroo wrote:
      I wonder if Ingrid remembers this when she got out of the urn. Since Elsa doesn't know how she got inside the urn, how can Ingrid know it? Elsa got out of the urn in 2013 in our world and she immediately didn't remember. So Ingrid can't have removed her memories. I just need to see the episode in which we see how Elsa got trapped...
      Most logical explanation is that since we know Ingrid can wipe memories (like with Emma) she did the same with Elsa before Elsa was put in the urn.

      Also, I wish every villain had a Helga in their life! Regina could've coped with Daniel's loss, Rumple would've had someone to curb his homocidal tendencies (at least for about 20-30 years), etc. I wish Helga somehow comes back as Ingrid's hallucination or something. One of the best characters we've ever had and I hate the Duke of Weaselton for her death.


      Can she take memories?  Is that the concensus?  I know Emma keeps saying "you took my memories".  But I guess I thought the only memory-taker out there was Grand Pabbie and of course, certain curses.  And I am also fairly certain that my interpretation on that could be incorrect.

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    • DarlingDavies wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Dr. Kangaroo wrote:
      I wonder if Ingrid remembers this when she got out of the urn. Since Elsa doesn't know how she got inside the urn, how can Ingrid know it? Elsa got out of the urn in 2013 in our world and she immediately didn't remember. So Ingrid can't have removed her memories. I just need to see the episode in which we see how Elsa got trapped...
      Most logical explanation is that since we know Ingrid can wipe memories (like with Emma) she did the same with Elsa before Elsa was put in the urn.

      Also, I wish every villain had a Helga in their life! Regina could've coped with Daniel's loss, Rumple would've had someone to curb his homocidal tendencies (at least for about 20-30 years), etc. I wish Helga somehow comes back as Ingrid's hallucination or something. One of the best characters we've ever had and I hate the Duke of Weaselton for her death.


      Can she take memories?  Is that the concensus?  I know Emma keeps saying "you took my memories".  But I guess I thought the only memory-taker out there was Grand Pabbie and of course, certain curses.  And I am also fairly certain that my interpretation on that could be incorrect.

      Well, unless Ingrid kidnapped Pabbie (which we know is not the case, as he's already in Storybrooke as a lawn ornament) chances are Ingrid used a memory potion like the ones Zelena, Regina and Blue can all concoct, whether to give them back or take them away.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:

      DarlingDavies wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Dr. Kangaroo wrote:
      I wonder if Ingrid remembers this when she got out of the urn. Since Elsa doesn't know how she got inside the urn, how can Ingrid know it? Elsa got out of the urn in 2013 in our world and she immediately didn't remember. So Ingrid can't have removed her memories. I just need to see the episode in which we see how Elsa got trapped...
      Most logical explanation is that since we know Ingrid can wipe memories (like with Emma) she did the same with Elsa before Elsa was put in the urn.

      Also, I wish every villain had a Helga in their life! Regina could've coped with Daniel's loss, Rumple would've had someone to curb his homocidal tendencies (at least for about 20-30 years), etc. I wish Helga somehow comes back as Ingrid's hallucination or something. One of the best characters we've ever had and I hate the Duke of Weaselton for her death.


      Can she take memories?  Is that the concensus?  I know Emma keeps saying "you took my memories".  But I guess I thought the only memory-taker out there was Grand Pabbie and of course, certain curses.  And I am also fairly certain that my interpretation on that could be incorrect.

      Well, unless Ingrid kidnapped Pabbie (which we know is not the case, as he's already in Storybrooke as a lawn ornament) chances are Ingrid used a memory potion like the ones Zelena, Regina and Blue can all concoct, whether to give them back or take them away.

      I thought the lawn ornament was an evil Gnome that Regina cursed into stone the first time she tried (and failed) to cast the dark curse (season 1)?

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    • Both have appeared as lawn ornaments.  the gnome from season one is specifically in Regina's yard. I forget where Pabbie shows up, but it's a different statue.  Now, the question is... Is that really Pabbie, or is it simply a rock troll statue?

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    • I don't recall seeing a rock troll statue, can anyone specify an episode where one is seen?

      I wonder how many other statues in Storybrooke are actually petrified people\animals\monsters from EF? Perhaps some come to life after dark... (another Disney property: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gargoyles_(TV_series))

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    • We see it in 401, in Storybrooke, right after Anna and Elsa's forest scene.

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    • Andrew.scott.503 wrote:

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:

      DarlingDavies wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Dr. Kangaroo wrote:
      I wonder if Ingrid remembers this when she got out of the urn. Since Elsa doesn't know how she got inside the urn, how can Ingrid know it? Elsa got out of the urn in 2013 in our world and she immediately didn't remember. So Ingrid can't have removed her memories. I just need to see the episode in which we see how Elsa got trapped...
      Most logical explanation is that since we know Ingrid can wipe memories (like with Emma) she did the same with Elsa before Elsa was put in the urn.

      Also, I wish every villain had a Helga in their life! Regina could've coped with Daniel's loss, Rumple would've had someone to curb his homocidal tendencies (at least for about 20-30 years), etc. I wish Helga somehow comes back as Ingrid's hallucination or something. One of the best characters we've ever had and I hate the Duke of Weaselton for her death.


      Can she take memories?  Is that the concensus?  I know Emma keeps saying "you took my memories".  But I guess I thought the only memory-taker out there was Grand Pabbie and of course, certain curses.  And I am also fairly certain that my interpretation on that could be incorrect.
      Well, unless Ingrid kidnapped Pabbie (which we know is not the case, as he's already in Storybrooke as a lawn ornament) chances are Ingrid used a memory potion like the ones Zelena, Regina and Blue can all concoct, whether to give them back or take them away.

      I thought the lawn ornament was an evil Gnome that Regina cursed into stone the first time she tried (and failed) to cast the dark curse (season 1)?

      The reason why I don't think SQ took Emma's memories is simple. She drank the potion hook gave her and she didn't even remember her past with the snow queen. I think it is more of a repressed memories, maybe amnesia caused by magic can be undone by a simple memory potion, but something that is intentionally repressed due to probably, sever, bad, unfortunately circumstances maybe beyond the memory potion's ability.I mean Emma has already been exposed to two curses that was broken by true love's kiss, the most powerful magic capable of breaking any curse, and yet she never really remembered anything. Emma's past with SQ is sure is mysterious. 

      OR

      Ingrid learned how Gran pabbie takes away memories and did it to Elsa and Emma. I don't know at this point, 

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    • Helga was great character, I really really like her and I'm very sad for her fate. I feels bad for Ingrid too. They are very tragic characters, but we have hope for Ingrid's happy end at least.

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    • It is sort of symbolic in a way that after she died Gerda and Ingrid's relationship fell apart, she was the middle sister and in a way she kind of bonded the sisters together, but when she died that bond ended 

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Dan Fox wrote:
      Her sister Gerda was a bitch though. And it looks like karma had it out for her because even with forgetting about Helga and Ingrid, she had a daughter with Ingrid's powers and a daughter like herself so she was basically forced to deal with that crap all over again.
      Elsa being born with ice powers, was the price Gerda had to pay, for using such a powerful forgetting spell.... Grand Pabbie hinted that.

      My thought exactly. "such Magics come with a price" Gerda apparently said do it anyway ? So he did it, and et volia, Elsa born with icey magics, just like her sister Ingrid had.

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    • Dr. Kangaroo wrote:
      I wonder if Ingrid remembers this when she got out of the urn. Since Elsa doesn't know how she got inside the urn, how can Ingrid know it? Elsa got out of the urn in 2013 in our world and she immediately didn't remember. So Ingrid can't have removed her memories. I just need to see the episode in which we see how Elsa got trapped...

      As far as I am aware, it happens next week during Smash the Mirror at some point, the Urn is slated that it makes an appearance {both according to the page for it here an also on the wikipedia site page for it as well} in Smash the Mirror, my guess is that it is used, somehow Elsa has the gloves on too. Also, I doubt highly that Ingrid took Elsas memories, she said the Rock Trolls did it {Removed her memories of ever meeting her aunt}.

      My thought pattern is that the effect of just getting pulled into the urn alone is so truamatising for Elsa alone that she just forgets how she got in there in the first place. And at the same time forgets her aunt.

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    • Kncooper wrote:
      A part of me is holding out hope that Helga was preserved somehow but someone. She was such a good character and it was tragic to watch her die in the same episode she was introduced.

      I've a short story in the works wherein Helga survives and at Gerda recommendation packs a bag and makes for Corona and then becomes Rapunzels mother. {Though I am heavily steeped in the film universe wherein Rapunzel is Elsa and Annas cousin through their mothers sister thqat they never met}

      But I too hope that Helga survived or at least was preserved by someone who saw the imprtance of her life and whatnot. I honestly cried when she turned to ice and fell apart. I feel now exactly how Ingrid felt upon losing a loved one.

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    • I hope at least Helga will appear as a sort of Lily/James Potter-style hallucination to Ingrid at the climax of the arc and tell her she forgives her and loves her, and Ingrid will surrender. Also, did Sally Pressman (Adult Helga) give anyone else serious Kristin Chenoweth teas? The resemblance was shocking.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      I hope at least Helga will appear as a sort of Lily/James Potter-style hallucination to Ingrid at the climax of the arc and tell her she forgives her and loves her, and Ingrid will surrender. Also, did Sally Pressman (Adult Helga) give anyone else serious Kristin Chenoweth teas? The resemblance was shocking.

      Now you mention it... only her voice though ;)

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    • So, I've seen a lot of backlash against Gerda for what she did to Ingrid and I understand not agreeing with her decision, but I don't feel like she's necessarily a b***h. I think that she came upon the scene, only to see her one sister dead and the other sister the killer. She did not know the full story and, while Ingrid did try to explain, I think Gerda was in too much shock to fully process what Ingrid was saying. Maybe Gerda knew on some level that Ingrid wouldn't have intentionally harmed Helga, but I don't think she was capable of thinking things through at the moment. She reacted by stopping Ingrid from hurting anyone else. Of course there was probably a better way to deal with the situation, but I don't think many people in Gerda's place would be level-headed enough to think through everything on the spot. Does anyone agree with me?

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    • ROSSELLA1 wrote:
      So, I've seen a lot of backlash against Gerda for what she did to Ingrid and I understand not agreeing with her decision, but I don't feel like she's necessarily a b***h. I think that she came upon the scene, only to see her one sister dead and the other sister the killer. She did not know the full story and, while Ingrid did try to explain, I think Gerda was in too much shock to fully process what Ingrid was saying. Maybe Gerda knew on some level that Ingrid wouldn't have intentionally harmed Helga, but I don't think she was capable of thinking things through at the moment. She reacted by stopping Ingrid from hurting anyone else. Of course there was probably a better way to deal with the situation, but I don't think many people in Gerda's place would be level-headed enough to think through everything on the spot. Does anyone agree with me?

      I agree with this thought. It makes the most sense to me. Gerda shows up, finds Helga dead and Ingrid weeping over her lost sister, her mistake in fact. Ingrid tried to explain, but Gerda couldn't proccess it, so she just reacted on defenseive instincts alone. There is honestly nothing wrong with such actions, Gerda I think was reacting in a manner ot defend herself, and then try to make sense of it all

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    • Okay, I will give her that... But it was that she chose not to deal with this head on the first time, that really makes me mad. Because of her decision to erase the memories of Helga and Ingrid from everyone, she basically caused Elsa's suffering and frankly her own too. By not dealing with this the easier way, she basically made everything even more complicated than it could have been. Plus Grand Pabbie warned her that the stuff she tries to hide would confront her eventually.

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    • Dan Fox wrote: Okay, I will give her that... But it was that she chose not to deal with this head on the first time, that really makes me mad. Because of her decision to erase the memories of Helga and Ingrid from everyone, she basically caused Elsa's suffering and frankly her own too. By not dealing with this the easier way, she basically made everything even more complicated than it could have been. Plus Grand Pabbie warned her that the stuff she tries to hide would confront her eventually.

      Sort of I suppose... Gerda did die at Sea, travelling to Mist Haven (presumably to see Rumples again) but I don't think the truth of the Ingrid tragedy was quite out at that point (after all, she had Grand Pabbie erase her memories of her sisters as well as the entire kingdom). But the Ingrid tragedy certainly has caught up with her daughters (and Emma).

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    • Dan Fox wrote:
      Okay, I will give her that... But it was that she chose not to deal with this head on the first time, that really makes me mad. Because of her decision to erase the memories of Helga and Ingrid from everyone, she basically caused Elsa's suffering and frankly her own too. By not dealing with this the easier way, she basically made everything even more complicated than it could have been. Plus Grand Pabbie warned her that the stuff she tries to hide would confront her eventually.

      Of course it led to further suffering. But the point is I don't think she was psychologically capable of dealing with it at the time. She also thought she had paid the price. She did things in the heat of the moment and those things had terrible consequences, but Gerda was in too much shock to think about every possible solution. Fight, flight, or freeze mode took over and she had little to no choice ovr her actions.

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    • Okay, it was an impossible situation. But I don't feel like saying Ingrid was at fault because it wasn't her fault, her last memory of being able to stand before being kept in the urn, was her sister turning her back on her and calling her a monster.

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    • So are we ever going to see what the message in the bottle that Gerda threw into the sea was? Or is that idea just discarded now?

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: So are we ever going to see what the message in the bottle that Gerda threw into the sea was? Or is that idea just discarded now?

      It's probably the scroll Ingrid had.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      So are we ever going to see what the message in the bottle that Gerda threw into the sea was? Or is that idea just discarded now?

      I just assumed, it was intended to foreshadow the Snow Queen's backstory. 

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    • What if the ship sank during their return home. They might just let Anna and Elsa know about Rumple. Or he might have given Gerda her memories of Ingrid back and she wanted to warn them about her...

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    • Utter solitude wrote:

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: So are we ever going to see what the message in the bottle that Gerda threw into the sea was? Or is that idea just discarded now?

      It's probably the scroll Ingrid had.

      The one from the Apprentice?

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    • Utter solitude wrote:

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: So are we ever going to see what the message in the bottle that Gerda threw into the sea was? Or is that idea just discarded now?

      It's probably the scroll Ingrid had.

      The apprentice gave her that to know who to look for in the LWM.

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    • I Haven't seen Smash the Mirror :D

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      I Haven't seen Smash the Mirror :D

      Go and watch it right now!!! XD

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    • Sorry, spoiler alert. Hasn't it aired where you are in the world?

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    • Dan Fox wrote:
      Okay, it was an impossible situation. But I don't feel like saying Ingrid was at fault because it wasn't her fault, her last memory of being able to stand before being kept in the urn, was her sister turning her back on her and calling her a monster.

      Oh, I'm not saying Ingrid was at fault. I'm just saying that Gerda wasn't at fault either. 

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    • It's been more than a year and I still think about this part! I guess by a mind of someone from LWM says that if this happens, the most logical move was to make the friendly fire worth it, and KILL the Duke for good. That way, at least the good sister's death would not be meaningless, and Elsa wouldn't be having him to worry about in the future. 

      Normally I'd favor Disney not showing an on-screen death scene, with blood and all. But in this case... ach. The Duke needs to die. He's not a respectable villain - he's a weasel, a coward, and a jerk. And personally, the only character I hate more than a villain is a jerk. In the first Frozen movie all he received was banishment, and how long exactly since the last time Disney actually stabbed someone to death with an ice spike? As long as he lives he's like a threat - like Grima Wormtongue to King Theoden.

      Personally, I'd give him an old-fashioned stab death: on-screen, close-up, using an ice spike from Elsa. But not by Elsa's hand... a male. handsome, stoic, stern, similar and different from Elsa, who's got powers of Nature - wields power of Time.

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    • Picture this: Conceptual climax scenario - 

      'Duke being forced to a corner. Grabbed a hostage. Encountered the man. Man effectively threatened Duke and scared him sh*tless. "Messing with Elsa might get you scared, messing with me would get you killed, for that while she was an offspring of Element Nature... I am an offspring of Element Time."

      'The man slightly raised his eyebrow. Next thing Duke know, hostage safe, Anna rushing to tend to her. Then a sharp pain in his chest, and he finds it being pierced by a long sharp ice spike. Blood seeping through his clothes. Duke turned around and see the man holding the spike end with his outstretched arm, bent to his knees, finally figuring out that the man stopped time, used the pause to rescue the hostage, snap one of Elsa's spikes and stabbed him with it. Last thing the Duke heard from the man - "For Helga, for Gerda, and for Ingrid, you son of a bitch."

      Elsa, Anna and all of Arendelle watch in utter shock.'

      Concept part ends.

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    • He's not just a cowardly, jerky weasel... He's actively a murderer. In the flashback, he actually pulls Helga in front of him as a human shield, causing Ingrid to kill her sister (I can't at people thinking she shielded him...). In Frozen, he sends his thugs to MURDER QUEEN ELSA.

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    • That'd be his mark-up, makes him hatable than ever. Banishment was too kind for this weasel - he NEEDS to die. Otherwise he'd remain a disease that'd constantly plague Arendelle. Think it's been a pretty long time since Disney actively murdered someone...

      However, Ingrid really should materialize an ice spice and stab that weasel close-up. Much more guaranteeing and less possibilities of friendly fires - close-quarter combat always goes more reliable than ranged; hard to grab a human shield when your opponent's standing an inch from you. Guess they needed a reason why weasel was in Frozen and Ingrid was not...

      If there is to be a Frozen sequel, he NEEDS to die. The old-fashioned way.

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    • A Spy in the Mirror
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