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  • In The Miller's Daughter, Rumpelstilkin wants Cora's first born child, saying "she is quite important", since he can see the future (in a manner of speaking). Yet as of the end of Season 3, the first born child is Zelena. This brings up some questions.

    Did Cora not consider Zelena to be her first born child (acting as if she never had Zelena)? Was Rumpelstilkin refering to Regina, or to Zelena? Wouldn't Rumpelstilkin know about Zelena before trying to get Cora's first born?

    I hate when there's continuity issues like this. :/ Anyway, comment please.

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    • There is no continuity issue.... being that Regina and Zelena have different fathers, they can both be considered first-borns.

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    • Sorry, I'm a mom. I have twins and a singleton. I have only one first born child.

      He was talking about Cora's firstborn. Now if he was talking about Zelena's father's first born or Regina's father's first born, that would be a different story. But that's not what he said. So he either meant Zelina or they screwed up. 

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    • Cora just led Rumple to believe that Regina was her first and only child.

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    • Rumplestiltzkin is very skilled in twisting words. One could say he knew that Cora did not consider Zelena to be her firstborn or, in a simpler way, he knew she could not offer him what she did not have. Cora had already given up Zelena so how could Rumple expect Zelena in trade? Why wouldn't he go to the Woodcutter's wife to make the deal? Of course, this vague wording probably helped Cora to get out of her deal with him and it certainly didn't help that he had begun to act with his stumbling heart rather than his meticulous mind.

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    • Rumple saw what he wanted to see, and Cora deceived him. He assumed some things and she never corrected him.

      shrug:: he got what he wanted in the end.
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    • That's another thing that's vague: Rumple's ability to see the future. He's not able to decipher it all precisely, though he obviously managed to do most everything right. Of course, there were obviously plenty of things he didn't expect to happen like falling in love with Cora or Belle, or finding his wife alive with Hook, or the fact that his own grandson would be his undoing (which was also wrong as it turned out to be Pan). Rumple makes mistakes. But somehow fate has always been more or less on his side.

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    • It's always seemed to me that Rumple sees bits, and then influences events to make those things happen.

      In this example, it seems to me that he saw that he needed Cora's daughter, Regina, to cast his curse. He then made moves to ensure those things came to be. He showed up before Cora got herself executed to ensure she'd birth that child.

      What I think he assumed in this is that Regina was her first born. I think he made that assumption based on Cora being unmarried and childless. In that instance, it's safe to assume she'd never borne a child. He wanted to ensure her next child, her only child, in his mind, would go to him, as he knew that daughter would cast his curse. Honestly, being the first or not doesn't seem relevant in this, and was likely more of a call to the original fairytale. (Honestly, what disturbs me the most about it is that Rumple was willing to essentially sacrifice his own child for his Curse)

      I think this is the kind of glimpse Rumple gets. Very small, but enough.

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      (Honestly, what disturbs me the most about it is that Rumple was willing to essentially sacrifice his own child for his Curse)

      It shows just how selfish, and one-track minded Rumplestiltskin was. He wanted to reunite with his son, and corrupted the love he felt for him.

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      It's always seemed to me that Rumple sees bits, and then influences events to make those things happen.

      In this example, it seems to me that he saw that he needed Cora's daughter, Regina, to cast his curse. He then made moves to ensure those things came to be. He showed up before Cora got herself executed to ensure she'd birth that child.

      What I think he assumed in this is that Regina was her first born. I think he made that assumption based on Cora being unmarried and childless. In that instance, it's safe to assume she'd never borne a child. He wanted to ensure her next child, her only child, in his mind, would go to him, as he knew that daughter would cast his curse. Honestly, being the first or not doesn't seem relevant in this, and was likely more of a call to the original fairytale. (Honestly, what disturbs me the most about it is that Rumple was willing to essentially sacrifice his own child for his Curse)

      I think this is the kind of glimpse Rumple gets. Very small, but enough.

      This is the kind of answer I was hoping for lol. Thanks. 

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote: It shows just how selfish, and one-track minded Rumplestiltskin was. He wanted to reunite with his son, and corrupted the love he felt for him.

      Exactly... and forgot that what he was doing was so far from something Bae would have wanted him to...

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    • This has always confused me; so here's what I thought:

      Rumple can see HIS future, his own future, apart from some major details. He maybe saw that Regina was Cora's child, but due to Cora abandoning Zelena he never saw that (Zelena being her first born). Maybe he just never saw Zelena so never thought about her.

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    • Well, Zelena WAS important. If she had never been born, then Rumple would never have been revived after his death due to her manipulations of Bae and Belle. He owes her his life, so she WAS in fact important. He just assumed Cora had never had a child (since she didn't have one with her) and that the "importance" was casting the Curse.

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    • I don't think Rumple knew about Zelena cause Cora had her before she met Rumple. I believe he first discovered Zelena when they met when Zelena entered the palace after discovering she had a sister. I think before that he considered Regina first-born and the one to do his deed but when he met Zelena, perhaps he discovered since she is first-born she could do the task but then he realizes Zelena isn't the right one and decided maybe the second born is the one to do it.

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    • It's always seemed to me that Rumple doesn't see everything... just enough to know what to do, and he makes assumptions based on what he sees.

      He saw that a child of Cora's would cast his curse, and when he met her and had no child, he assumed she had never given birth.

      What I find most disturbing about that was that he was willing to use his own child to cast his curse, knowing what it would cost the caster.

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      It's always seemed to me that Rumple doesn't see everything... just enough to know what to do, and he makes assumptions based on what he sees.

      He saw that a child of Cora's would cast his curse, and when he met her and had no child, he assumed she had never given birth.

      What I find most disturbing about that was that he was willing to use his own child to cast his curse, knowing what it would cost the caster.

      Especially considering what Regina gave up for the Curse...

      What's most disturbing is that despite having Regina lined up for his Curse, Rumple still wanted baby Alexandra as his own as well. For what reason? To have a back-up in like 30 more years?

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    • I don't think he ever intended to do anything with Alexandra... I think he knew what would happen and just put himself into place for it.

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      I don't think he ever intended to do anything with Alexandra... I think he knew what would happen and just put himself into place for it.

      Still, that's the only other known time that he demanded a baby as payment. Even in James and David's case, he only traded the baby/man for something else, the baby/man spent no time with him, both going immediately to King James.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:

      Utter solitude wrote:
      I don't think he ever intended to do anything with Alexandra... I think he knew what would happen and just put himself into place for it.

      Still, that's the only other known time that he demanded a baby as payment. Even in James and David's case, he only traded the baby/man for something else, the baby/man spent no time with him, both going immediately to King James.

      Well, as said before, he probably saw what would happen and asked for her baby. He probably hazily saw that her baby would be taken or lost, so he decided to be the one who takes the baby from her. So, instead of the baby being lost, Thomas was lost instead.

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    • Rumple can see the future not the past. He met cora after she gave birth to Zelena, hence, he only foresaw regina, ergo, he only considered her the first born. He didn't know Zelena was cora's first born which is why he had to do magic maternity test. For the record there is such thing as firstborn. It doesn't matter whether they had different fathers, technically, Zelena was conceived first, hence, first born. With the twins, the first come is the first born, hehe first means the first one to come out. 

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    • TheSamTrickster wrote:
      Rumple can see the future not the past. He met cora after she gave birth to Zelena, hence, he only foresaw regina, ergo, he only considered her the first born. He didn't know Zelena was cora's first born which is why he had to do magic maternity test. For the record there is such thing as firstborn. It doesn't matter whether they had different fathers, technically, Zelena was conceived first, hence, first born. With the twins, the first come is the first born, hehe first means the first one to come out. 


      Yes, but no. Rumple was alive well before Cora was born, and seemed to know a big deal of the future events that would befall her family. But perhaps he didn't know about Zelena because, as many said, his future sight is not all-inclusive and she wasn't relevant to what he was looking into, namely how to get to Baelfire.

      But if you think, it's consistent to the first born clause that, upon finding out about Zelena, he changed his mind and tried to have her cast the Curse, only to change his mind when he reaalised that the thing she loved the most was Rumple himself.

      As for Zelena's relevance in his life through her bringing him back from the dead, I think his foresight stopped with the moment of his undoing. What could come next was never in his vision, as evidenced in his talks with Belle before Neverland and his doubt on the island. And also by the fact that he seems not to forsee much these days: most of his Hat plan was a shot in the dark and had to be rearranged several time due to sudden circumstances, until it ultimately failed.

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    • GothicNarcissus wrote:
      TheSamTrickster wrote:
      Rumple can see the future not the past. He met cora after she gave birth to Zelena, hence, he only foresaw regina, ergo, he only considered her the first born. He didn't know Zelena was cora's first born which is why he had to do magic maternity test. For the record there is such thing as firstborn. It doesn't matter whether they had different fathers, technically, Zelena was conceived first, hence, first born. With the twins, the first come is the first born, hehe first means the first one to come out. 

      Yes, but no. Rumple was alive well before Cora was born, and seemed to know a big deal of the future events that would befall her family. But perhaps he didn't know about Zelena because, as many said, his future sight is not all-inclusive and she wasn't relevant to what he was looking into, namely how to get to Baelfire.

      But if you think, it's consistent to the first born clause that, upon finding out about Zelena, he changed his mind and tried to have her cast the Curse, only to change his mind when he reaalised that the thing she loved the most was Rumple himself.

      As for Zelena's relevance in his life through her bringing him back from the dead, I think his foresight stopped with the moment of his undoing. What could come next was never in his vision, as evidenced in his talks with Belle before Neverland and his doubt on the island. And also by the fact that he seems not to forsee much these days: most of his Hat plan was a shot in the dark and had to be rearranged several time due to sudden circumstances, until it ultimately failed.

      He can only see things that he has connection with. At the time he has no connection with cora whatsoever. The future is unpredictable even if he can see it because its  definite either way. like the foreseer foretold that  bae would lose his father which was true in both case, case 1 rumple dies in the ogre war, case 2 he lost a father when he chose power. I mean you can't just look up who will cast my curse, technically anyone can cast his curse, he just chose regina, because its subjective foretelling not objective. He said that he didn't really made Emma a saviour, but took advantage of what she was made of, made out of true love. 

      He never had doubts about his future in neverland he was sure. He knew his visions wont work there because time is still, hence, there is technically no future to see. since the beginning we all know that the vision ability is not that good. He also said he doesn't need to see anything in neverland as he was planning on sarcificing himself anyway. 

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    • Utter solitude wrote: I don't think he ever intended to do anything with Alexandra... I think he knew what would happen and just put himself into place for it.

      I think Rumple needed a product of true love not necessarily Snow and Charming's. Alexandra could very easily be a product of true love as well (same for Aurora and Phillip's child). I think if Rumple had succeeded in taking Alexandra that perhaps she could've had Emma's role but when that didn't work out, he went after Snow's instead. After all, wasn't it Snow's idea for Cinderella not to give Rumple her baby? Perhaps that is why he went after hers instead?

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    • BallerinaBelle wrote:

      Utter solitude wrote: I don't think he ever intended to do anything with Alexandra... I think he knew what would happen and just put himself into place for it.

      I think Rumple needed a product of true love not necessarily Snow and Charming's. Alexandra could very easily be a product of true love as well (same for Aurora and Phillip's child). I think if Rumple had succeeded in taking Alexandra that perhaps she could've had Emma's role but when that didn't work out, he went after Snow's instead. After all, wasn't it Snow's idea for Cinderella not to give Rumple her baby? Perhaps that is why he went after hers instead?

      Actually, Thomas convinced Ella to go against Rumple, and THEN they contacted Charming.

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    • BallerinaBelle wrote:

      Utter solitude wrote: I don't think he ever intended to do anything with Alexandra... I think he knew what would happen and just put himself into place for it.

      I think Rumple needed a product of true love not necessarily Snow and Charming's. Alexandra could very easily be a product of true love as well (same for Aurora and Phillip's child). I think if Rumple had succeeded in taking Alexandra that perhaps she could've had Emma's role but when that didn't work out, he went after Snow's instead. After all, wasn't it Snow's idea for Cinderella not to give Rumple her baby? Perhaps that is why he went after hers instead?

      Emma was the only product of true love he could use because he used the poison he made from Snow's and Charming's hair, which was before he decided to take Ella's child.

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    • I think the whole point of Rumple taking Ella's child was to have leverage with Emma in order to get someone who would know the LWM well to help him find Baelfire once the Curse was over.

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    • GothicNarcissus wrote:
      I think the whole point of Rumple taking Ella's child was to have leverage with Emma in order to get someone who would know the LWM well to help him find Baelfire once the Curse was over.

      Did he really have that much foresight that he planned for what happened in the other land?

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      GothicNarcissus wrote:
      I think the whole point of Rumple taking Ella's child was to have leverage with Emma in order to get someone who would know the LWM well to help him find Baelfire once the Curse was over.
      Did he really have that much foresight that he planned for what happened in the other land?


      Well, he knew Emma would grow up in the Land Without Magic outside of Storybrooke because that was kind of a pivotal part of his plan, he new she would be the Saviour and would restore happy endings the moment she'd come to town so fat chance she would let Ashley lose her baby, so that's not foresight as much as just careful planning.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: Actually, Thomas convinced Ella to go against Rumple, and THEN they contacted Charming.

      Thank you for the correction, my mistake.

      Farerb wrote: Emma was the only product of true love he could use because he used the poison he made from Snow's and Charming's hair, which was before he decided to take Ella's child.

      So then wouldn't it be logical to say that if he had taken Alexandra that he would've just used Cinderella and Thomas' hair? I suppose it's a "chicken or egg" question, I didn't know if the curse had to be linked to Emma or if Emma was only linked because of circumstances that did play out.

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    • Also, Rumple has foresight, but remember......Emma was right born before the DC. If Rumple used Ella's, it would have been too late.

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    • I love how this is eight months old and still ongoing. 

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    • Eskaver wrote: Also, Rumple has foresight, but remember......Emma was right born before the DC. If Rumple used Ella's, it would have been too late.

      What's DC?

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    • BallerinaBelle wrote:

      Eskaver wrote: Also, Rumple has foresight, but remember......Emma was right born before the DC. If Rumple used Ella's, it would have been too late.

      What's DC?

      Dc= dark curse

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    • Queenofdarkness89: Thank you for that, I genuinely appreciate your help. I tend to only really understand full English and cant keep up with all of the constant new abbreviations.

      Eskaver wrote: Also, Rumple has foresight, but remember......Emma was right born before the DC. If Rumple used Ella's, it would have been too late.

      I see what you are saying here, I think there are more inconsistencies in this show with regards to Rumple and the Dark Curse than anything else on this show (except maybe Maleficent). As the original poster alluded to, Rumple knew it was Cora's offspring who would initiate the curse but it didn't seem any more specific than that since he was so willing to trade Regina for Zelena. I guess that's why it makes me think that Emma is as "disposable" or as changeable as the Savior is as Regina was as the person who initiated The Dark Curse, if that makes sense.

      Point being, would Emma still have been the savior if Zelena had not fallen for Rumple and he was able to use her instead of Regina to initiate the curse? The only tie Emma has to all of this is through Snow and Regina, that's why I think it's possible that Emma is not the only savior.

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    • Out of the true love babies, Phillip Jr wasn't conceived and his parents separated, Alex was still in the womb, and Emma was almost ready to be born. So, if you were going to pick the savior for the curse, it would be Emma. Now, currently they are making the Savior means something it didn't mean before. Season one was the savior was the product of true love that broke the curse. Now, Emma is not only one that can break the Dark Curse, purveyor of strong light magic, and seeker of happy endings. Um, what? She went from some philoposhical/ metaphysical role played by an ordinary, yet destined individual into some prophesied super hero.

      Emma was destined to be the Savior, since the Sorcerer knew that Emma was powerful and probably that she was the breaker of the first DC (which actually doesn't make her special).

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    • Didn't they say in the beginning of the series though that Emma would figure out her role as the savior "just before the big show down between good and evil"? Is that show down still coming or has it been ongoing?

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    • Rumple uses the phrase "And the final battle will begin" in the pilot.

      Now, you can interpret that however you want, but imo he was just being dramatic XD

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    • BallerinaBelle wrote: Didn't they say in the beginning of the series though that Emma would figure out her role as the savior "just before the big show down between good and evil"? Is that show down still coming or has it been ongoing?

      Well, one could argue that it is currently happening. Or they clearly misled us (Remember Rumple's whole "then the final battle will begin!")

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    • He didn't say "final battle between good and evil"?

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    • BallerinaBelle wrote: He didn't say "final battle between good and evil"?

      Right. Just the final battle. I hope we get some good magic battles since they only last ten seconds on this show.

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    • That made me laugh. Agreed! Perhaps it's some special effect issue or something but I agree that the magic battles are way too short considering they should be epic events.

      Thanks for the correction on "Final Battle".

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    • Idk, it's less epic when magic is everywhere... XD

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    • Well, I like the battle at Lake Nostos. But Zelena vs Regina 1 was telekinesis, telekinesis, fireball, gust of wind, telekinesis, teleport, heart rip. Nice, but maybe decent and definitely better than Regina vs Zelena final: Choke, Light blast, and Regina vs Zelena 2: Threat, telekinesis.

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    • I think every battle/scene that includes Cora (played by Barbara Hershey) are the best ones. Perhaps it is just the way that Barbara Hershey takes on her roles but I always think those are the most exciting. All of the other villains tend to play that "I need to say a couple of lines and give you a chance to think of some way to defeat me last minute instead of ending this for myself now." whereas Cora just goes for the heart immediately, no words just action.

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    • Something Big I noticed is that the final pages of the book was when david put emma in the wardrobe for transportation. There are like 3 pages that emma burned in the thing u love most i think is the episode. Which suggest that the author should have no impact on the villains and heroes life after the dark curse. Thoughts on this?

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    • TheSamTrickster wrote:
      Something Big I noticed is that the final pages of the book was when david put emma in the wardrobe for transportation. There are like 3 pages that emma burned in the thing u love most i think is the episode. Which suggest that the author should have no impact on the villains and heroes life after the dark curse. Thoughts on this?

      I just think everything after Gorin/Peddler was recorded by the Sorceror himself to make sure there weren't any screw-ups.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      TheSamTrickster wrote:
      Something Big I noticed is that the final pages of the book was when david put emma in the wardrobe for transportation. There are like 3 pages that emma burned in the thing u love most i think is the episode. Which suggest that the author should have no impact on the villains and heroes life after the dark curse. Thoughts on this?
      I just think everything after Gorin/Peddler was recorded by the Sorceror himself to make sure there weren't any screw-ups.

      I'm curious as to how  the apprentice cannot change how the story went down, only the chose author seems to have the ability to manipulate it. I mean when the apprentice said "why u made me what I did to that child" something like that, why can't he just change it? like the way he gave Ingrid his happy ending in exchange for the hat. 

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    • TheSamTrickster wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      TheSamTrickster wrote:
      Something Big I noticed is that the final pages of the book was when david put emma in the wardrobe for transportation. There are like 3 pages that emma burned in the thing u love most i think is the episode. Which suggest that the author should have no impact on the villains and heroes life after the dark curse. Thoughts on this?
      I just think everything after Gorin/Peddler was recorded by the Sorceror himself to make sure there weren't any screw-ups.
      I'm curious as to how  the apprentice cannot change how the story went down, only the chose author seems to have the ability to manipulate it. I mean when the apprentice said "why u made me what I did to that child" something like that, why can't he just change it? like the way he gave Ingrid his happy ending in exchange for the hat. 

      I don't think the Author magically manipulated anything. Remember, he told Snow and Charming about Maleficent laying an egg, and also told them about the Apprentice.

      As for why the Apprentice acted like the Author controlled him, I have no idea.

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    • TheSamTrickster wrote: Something Big I noticed is that the final pages of the book was when david put emma in the wardrobe for transportation. There are like 3 pages that emma burned in the thing u love most i think is the episode. Which suggest that the author should have no impact on the villains and heroes life after the dark curse. Thoughts on this?

      I don't know why burning a few pages would change anything, tho XD

      It doesn't seem like the Author has/had power over what he didn't write, at any rate, and we know the Author didn't write several of the later stories in the book, he was already imprisoned.

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    • What later stories in the book?

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    • BallerinaBelle wrote:
      What later stories in the book?

      The Author was imprisoned during Snow's pregnancy. So scenes from "Pilot", "The Thing You Love Most" and "Queen Of Hearts" (and probably others) went unwritten by the Author, yet still show up in the book. Most notably, Emma's birth, which is literally the last four pages of the book.

      This suggests someone was an interim Author until the Curse swept over the land.

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    • Utter solitude wrote:

      TheSamTrickster wrote: Something Big I noticed is that the final pages of the book was when david put emma in the wardrobe for transportation. There are like 3 pages that emma burned in the thing u love most i think is the episode. Which suggest that the author should have no impact on the villains and heroes life after the dark curse. Thoughts on this?

      I don't know why burning a few pages would change anything, tho XDIt doesn't seem like the Author has/had power over what he didn't write, at any rate, and we know the Author didn't write several of the later stories in the book, he was already imprisoned.

      You misunderstood my point then. I was trying to point out that the last few pages of the storybook henry had was emma being send into the LWM, and the author was entrapped into the storybook itself before emma was born, lets assume the author had already written up to that part only where Emma was send to the LWM, which is where my point comes in, the pedler shouldn't have any effect on stories that occur in Storybrooke seeing as he only went as far as the last pages which emma burned in the first season. So the burning of the pages had nothing to do with how the story of these heroes flow post-entrapment and post DC, its the mere fact that they still looking for the author to change things, when in fact no one is writing about them in the present, they actually have the power to write their own story now. Which means, Regina doesn't need the author, which is also evident with Ursula getting her happy ending without the author. Regina already had her happy ending, she jsut had to make the sacrifice to avoid Marian's death. In all honesty, if Marian is well versed in the LWM customs, she wouldn't need to let robin go, because she would know how to live by herself then, which again comes back to the point of having their own control with their destiny now. But I must also point out that perhaps they are looking to change the past now the future.  

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    • Given that Snow is early in her pregnancy, most of the action with Cinderella comes to mind, certainly the point where Rumple is imprisoned.

      The building of the wardrobe, also. And there was an illustration in the book, iirc, that showed Charming putting Emma into the wardrobe.

      There's more too, that's just what I think of at the moment.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      BallerinaBelle wrote:
      What later stories in the book?
      The Author was imprisoned during Snow's pregnancy. So scenes from "Pilot", "The Thing You Love Most" and "Queen Of Hearts" (and probably others) went unwritten by the Author, yet still show up in the book. Most notably, Emma's birth, which is literally the last four pages of the book.

      This suggests someone was an interim Author until the Curse swept over the land.

      This statement is paradoxical. Its true that there has to be an interim in order to write the later stories, however, they should be looking for that interim if they are looking to change the later stories that are post- entrapment and post- DC because that was as far as the pedler went. Having said this, its more likely that the villains would want to change things from the past to get their happy ending, which is also why they wanted to release the author to rewrite their stories/write them a new stories of the Past, since everything would stem from their past i.e. writing rumple having kept his power, his true love and his son at the same time would give him a happy ending. 

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      Given that Snow is early in her pregnancy, most of the action with Cinderella comes to mind, certainly the point where Rumple is imprisoned.

      The building of the wardrobe, also. And there was an illustration in the book, iirc, that showed Charming putting Emma into the wardrobe.

      There's more too, that's just what I think of at the moment.

      Ur point being? and what does iirc means? i am not famiiar witht he use of this term, or whatever this is. 

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    • TheSamTrickster wrote: You misunderstood my point then. I was trying to point out that the last few pages of the storybook henry had was emma being send into the LWM, and the author was entrapped into the storybook itself before emma was born, lets assume the author had already written up to that part only where Emma was send to the LWM, which is where my point comes in, the pedler shouldn't have any effect on stories that occur in Storybrooke seeing as he only went as far as the last pages which emma burned in the first season. So the burning of the pages had nothing to do with how the story of these heroes flow post-entrapment and post DC, its the mere fact that they still looking for the author to change things, when in fact no one is writing about them in the present, they actually have the power to write their own story now. Which means, Regina doesn't need the author, which is also evident with Ursula getting her happy ending without the author. Regina already had her happy ending, she jsut had to make the sacrifice to avoid Marian's death. In all honesty, if Marian is well versed in the LWM customs, she wouldn't need to let robin go, because she would know how to live by herself then, which again comes back to the point of having their own control with their destiny now. But I must also point out that perhaps they are looking to change the past now the future.  

      However, we know the bolded isn't true. The Author (the peddler, at least) was imprisoned then. (Unless you mean a different one!)

      We're agreeing with each other, actually. After everyone is in Storybrooke, it seems like only the Savior alters events via helping restore happy endings, no author involvement.

      My other post was a reply to Edward Zachary, (quoting doesn't always work for me lately) and "iirc" means "if I recall correctly". :)

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    • Utter solitude wrote:

      TheSamTrickster wrote: You misunderstood my point then. I was trying to point out that the last few pages of the storybook henry had was emma being send into the LWM, and the author was entrapped into the storybook itself before emma was born, lets assume the author had already written up to that part only where Emma was send to the LWM, which is where my point comes in, the pedler shouldn't have any effect on stories that occur in Storybrooke seeing as he only went as far as the last pages which emma burned in the first season. So the burning of the pages had nothing to do with how the story of these heroes flow post-entrapment and post DC, its the mere fact that they still looking for the author to change things, when in fact no one is writing about them in the present, they actually have the power to write their own story now. Which means, Regina doesn't need the author, which is also evident with Ursula getting her happy ending without the author. Regina already had her happy ending, she jsut had to make the sacrifice to avoid Marian's death. In all honesty, if Marian is well versed in the LWM customs, she wouldn't need to let robin go, because she would know how to live by herself then, which again comes back to the point of having their own control with their destiny now. But I must also point out that perhaps they are looking to change the past now the future.  

      However, we know the bolded isn't true. The Author (the peddler, at least) was imprisoned then. (Unless you mean a different one!)

      We're agreeing with each other, actually. After everyone is in Storybrooke, it seems like only the Savior alters events via helping restore happy endings, no author involvement.

      My other post was a reply to Edward Zachary, (quoting doesn't always work for me lately) and "iirc" means "if I recall correctly". :)

      Thank you very much.. heheheh. 

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      Given that Snow is early in her pregnancy, most of the action with Cinderella comes to mind, certainly the point where Rumple is imprisoned.

      The building of the wardrobe, also. And there was an illustration in the book, iirc, that showed Charming putting Emma into the wardrobe.

      There's more too, that's just what I think of at the moment.

      She looks about four months in, six at the most.

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    • She doesn't look close to that far lol. four at the most, maybe. It's harder to tell such a thing since Ginny's had a baby, but Snow only ever really had "not pregnant" and "super pregnant" bodies before XD

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    • Wonderful timeline and Author questions! I love the debate, but this thread is about the Miller's daughter, Rumple, Cora, Zelena etc. Try to keep on topic, lol unless the Author stuff explains or relate to this issue.

      But I would agree that it's harder to tell with Ginny. We know she most likely a week or two before Cinderella's. But then again that all happened quite fast- Ella's story, trapping Rumple, this QoD and stealing Maleficent's baby. I guess the FTL world went crazy with the announcement of the curse (which was before Rumple was trapped since Rumple told Regina on Snow's wedding day and she went that same day).

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    • A Spy in the Mirror
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