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  • Do you guys think that Zelena really died? When Gold stabbed her, she tuned into what looked like china. Also, the green smoke that started the time travel portal thing. Does that mean that she still lived on within the pendant?

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    • I think the china thing was just a tribute to China girl from the Disney Oz movie.

      I think Zelena's really dead. My guess is she created a fail-safe beforehand that would trigger upon her death to open the time travel portal. She's gambling that someone would get dragged inside the portal and change past events in such a way that she doesn't get killed in the altered timeline (butterfly effect and all that).

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    • Her death (if she actuallly died) seemed similar to the death of Henry, in Gold's nightmare back in episode 2x19. I was so confused with the ending. So Gold asked Belle to marry him, all while tricking her into thinking she had the real dagger and made a promise to her that he wouldn't kill Zelena and then he did. Then green smoke came out of the pendant and made the time travel spell work, presumably. I don't get what just happened.

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    • Dan Fox wrote:
      Her death (if she actuallly died) seemed similar to the death of Henry, in Gold's nightmare back in episode 2x19. I was so confused with the ending. So Gold asked Belle to marry him, all while tricking her into thinking she had the real dagger and made a promise to her that he wouldn't kill Zelena and then he did. Then green smoke came out of the pendant and made the time travel spell work, presumably. I don't get what just happened.


      Actually, he never promised Belle not to kill Zelena. And if you listen closely to their conversation, there was a hint that he wasn't going to give the dagger back to her - "what you're giving me is more than I can ever give you".

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    • But he certainly isn't going to gain any points with the Charmings, and even less points with Regina, who was going to give her sister (and last living blood relative) a second chance.

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    • Dan Fox wrote: But he certainly isn't going to gain any points with the Charmings, and even less points with Regina, who was going to give her sister (and last living blood relative) a second chance.

      Especially since in some way Rumplestiltskin is responsible for the deaths of all of Regina's relatives. He knew that Regina would have to kill her father in order to enact the dark curse while he was manipulating and backing her into a corner where that seemed to be her only choice for revenge. He used the enchanted candle to save his own life at the expense of Cora's. Now he's out right killed Zelena, I hope the people in the town find out that the portal opening was in fact Rumples fault. I am really sick of him getting away with his shady behavior, the fake dagger was the last straw, I hope Belle dumps his ass.

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    • YayMona wrote:

      I hope the people in the town find out that the portal opening was in fact Rumples fault. I am really sick of him getting away with his shady behavior, the fake dagger was the last straw, I hope Belle dumps his ass.

      I think, everyone in Storybrooke will realize it is Rumplestiltskin's fault. The Season 3 premiere, only foreshadowed Hook and Regina getting their happy endings. Zelena's death proved, yet again; that as long as Rumple is the Dark One, he will never have a happy ending.

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    • I'm still surprised Belle's kiss, hasn't broken his curse yet. Even though it did briefly in 1x12, but if she kissed him many times after he was revived in 3x15, he never would have been controlled by Zelena. He also mentioned that it wasn't Zelena, some of the time, that resulted in some of his actions. Like the part where he almost killed Robin Hood's son. That could have been his doing, not Zelena's.

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    • Dan Fox wrote:
      I'm still surprised Belle's kiss, hasn't broken his curse yet. 

      Why?

      Rumple keeps choosing darkness, and magic over Belle.

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    • I would just think that he would love to no longer be called a coward by everyone and to be loved once again and live in happiness. But with Bae's death, it seems impossible.

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    • Dan Fox wrote:
      He also mentioned that it wasn't Zelena, some of the time, that resulted in some of his actions.


      I took this sentence quite literally when Rumple said it last night.  Thought, "oh weird.  he was able to control himself a bit?  He was choosing to be bad sometimes, during all of this?".  THEN I interpreted it a different way.  I think this sentence was a blanket moratorium on all his bad actions from the past.  Meaning, it was always Zelena's fault.  Before Zelena, it was his fault.  And Belle stood by him. 

      I want to officially say that I was extremely disappointed in Rumple last night.  He's not ready to change.

      Somewhere down the line, I think our heroes are going to have to defeat the Dark One.  They're going to have to try to destroy the dagger, eliminating Rumple himself, as well as the possibility of their being a future DO.

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    • Which would have happened if the posion killed him in 2.16.

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    • I have to admit, I like that Rumplestiltskin will probably, be the only main character never to get happy ending. When he died in 3.11, it felt like the perfect ending for such a tragic character. He keeps making the wrong choices, and it seem to be the Stiltskin family curse.

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    • If only it ended there... There would be a lasting good memory of him. But in truth, Neal, Graham, and August, are the only three characters that died heroes. 

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      I have to admit, I like that Rumplestiltskin will probably, be the only main character never to get happy ending. When he died in 3.11, it felt like the perfect ending for such a tragic character. He keeps making the wrong choices, and it seem to be the Stiltskin family curse.

      Agreed 100% after last night's episode.  Before that, I thought he'd choose to change for the better.  But after the lying and murdering last night, I was settled in the same belief you have. 

      And it's ok.  He's one of the best characters on TV (written for and portrayed by).

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    • Dan Fox wrote:
      If only it ended there... There would be a lasting good memory of him. 

      Which is exactly why Rumplestiltskin must die, in the end. 

      Rumplestiltskin might be Belle's true love, but that does not mean he is her happy ending. As Mary Margaret said, in 3.11, "happy endings are not always what they seem".

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    • Dan Fox wrote:
      I'm still surprised Belle's kiss, hasn't broken his curse yet. Even though it did briefly in 1x12, but if she kissed him many times after he was revived in 3x15, he never would have been controlled by Zelena. He also mentioned that it wasn't Zelena, some of the time, that resulted in some of his actions. Like the part where he almost killed Robin Hood's son. That could have been his doing, not Zelena's.

      I think he meant his actions even before Stoyrbrooke

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    • I cannot believe Zelena is actually dead, I really hope she didn't die. And by the way, I'm much more than extremely confused about last night's final scene. WTF?! So many questions! Is Zelena gone? (I was really hoping for her to use that second chance) Why was the portal activated with Zelena's death? And please someone answer me this: Are Emma and Hook the only ones that will travel through time and try to maintain everything the same? Or will everyone be transported? They answered so much questions with "A Curious Thing" but now a lot more of questions just started to move around in my head and I'm getting terribly frustrated.

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    • This may very well be wishful thinking on my part, but I think Zelena may still be alive in some sense. 

      I only have three little reasons for thinking this. The first, is what Glinda says to Zelena when she gives her the amulet , "In many ways, this is your life." I wonder how literal that is. Could it be that so long as the amulet exists Zelena remains alive--even if her body is destroyed? The fact that it was Zelena's trademark green smoke that came from the amulet after her body vanished also seems significant. 

      The second, if you watch Zelena's death very closely--as only a OUAT time fan would--in the shot just before Gold stabs her, Zelena gives the hint of an evil smirk. Now, I admit this one is pretty weak, as it is the breifest of half-seconds. Maybe Bex Mader was making another expression and the quick cut to Gold just makes it look like a half-way smirk. There does seem to be a gleam in her eyes though.

      And finally, the Oz prophecy came nowhere near being fulfilled no matter how you interpret it. Wether it refers to Zelena as the protector of Oz or the greatest threat to Oz, the prophecy did not come to pass. Prophecies have been misinterpreted before on Once, but they usually come true in some way shape or form. Does this mean Zelena still has some part to play? 

      And that's all I got. Like I said, probably just wishful thinking. I wont lie, I was pretty dissapointed with Zelena's death--if, in fact, she is dead. I'll hold out for a comeback, but I wont hold my breath. 


      PS: Don't get my started on Rumple. I've lost all sympathy for that character now. Lying to Belle like that--during a declaration of marriage? Pfft. I hope he's the next character to croak. 

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    • Johntoxable wrote:
      This may very well be wishful thinking on my part, but I think Zelena may still be alive in some sense. 

      I only have three little reasons for thinking this. The first, is what Glinda says to Zelena when she gives her the amulet , "In many ways, this is your life." I wonder how literal that is. Could it be that so long as the amulet exists Zelena remains alive--even if her body is destroyed? The fact that it was Zelena's trademark green smoke that came from the amulet after her body vanished also seems significant. 

      The second, if you watch Zelena's death very closely--as only a OUAT time fan would--in the shot just before Gold stabs her, Zelena gives the hint of an evil smirk. Now, I admit this one is pretty weak, as it is the breifest of half-seconds. Maybe Bex Mader was making another expression and the quick cut to Gold just makes it look like a half-way smirk. There does seem to be a gleam in her eyes though.

      And finally, the Oz prophecy came nowhere near being fulfilled no matter how you interpret it. Wether it refers to Zelena as the protector of Oz or the greatest threat to Oz, the prophecy did not come to pass. Prophecies have been misinterpreted before on Once, but they usually come true in some way shape or form. Does this mean Zelena still has some part to play? 

      And that's all I got. Like I said, probably just wishful thinking. I wont lie, I was pretty dissapointed with Zelena's death--if, in fact, she is dead. I'll hold out for a comeback, but I wont hold my breath. 


      PS: Don't get my started on Rumple. I've lost all sympathy for that character now. Lying to Belle like that--during a declaration of marriage? Pfft. I hope he's the next character to croak. 

      So her amulet is like a hoarcrux?

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    • Anubis16 wrote:

      So her amulet is like a hoarcrux?


      Well she has killed (or turned in to monkeys who were then killed by others) many people and therefore ripped her soul at least once. :P

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    • Kncooper
      Kncooper removed this reply because:
      doubled
      02:44, May 6, 2014
      This reply has been removed
    • So her amulet is like a hoarcrux?


      That's not a bad analogy. Here is Glinda's full line about the pendent: 

      "Guard it with your life, because in many ways, it now is your life. You were born with great power, Zelena. And now, now, this pendant will harness, protect, and grow that power--all of it." 

      Also for good measure, the full prophecy as read by Zelena: 

      "The scorceress from another land will make Oz her home until she fulfills her destiny and unseats the greatest evil the realm has ever seen." 

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    • Dan Fox wrote:
      I'm still surprised Belle's kiss, hasn't broken his curse yet.

      That was what made me suspicious when they kissed after his proposal. The fact that he was deceiving her about the dagger and Zelena kept it from being True Love's Kiss..

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    • I don't think she's really dead, it didn't seem that convincing. Plus I've seen a lot of people say on tumblr that they don't think she's dead. At least 85% of the tumblr users, from what I've saw, think she's still alive somehow. I don't know why it didn't seem convincing to me, but I hate that they kill off all the major villains (Cora, Pan, Tamara, Greg and now Zelena) it's a waste of a character TBH if they just make them a big bad, then decide to kill them.

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    • Johntoxable wrote:

      The second, if you watch Zelena's death very closely--as only a OUAT time fan would--in the shot just before Gold stabs her, Zelena gives the hint of an evil smirk. Now, I admit this one is pretty weak, as it is the breifest of half-seconds. Maybe Bex Mader was making another expression and the quick cut to Gold just makes it look like a half-way smirk. There does seem to be a gleam in her eyes though.


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    • I actually caught that, too, and was reading along to see if anyone else did lol. I think Zelena is dead, since she had no magic and was basically defeneless against Gold. However, I don't think we've seen the last of her since obviously her time travel portal was "activated" so she must have known Rumple was going to come for her and planned an escape route incase she would've been killed. 

      I honestly hope she's gone. Not that I hate the character, although I did kind think of Pan was the overall better villain, this show needs to stop killing people, and then bringing them back. 

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    • Toma Cre wrote:
      I think the china thing was just a tribute to China girl from the Disney Oz movie.

      I think Zelena's really dead. My guess is she created a fail-safe beforehand that would trigger upon her death to open the time travel portal. She's gambling that someone would get dragged inside the portal and change past events in such a way that she doesn't get killed in the altered timeline (butterfly effect and all that).

      You mean it was just a tribute to the China Country from the original books, don't you? /: ) Disney certainly didn't make up the China people...in either of their Oz movies. 

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    • I don't think Zelena is dead. Glinda mentioned something last episode that she has to guard the necklace with her life and it's a part of her. I feel the only way that Zelena will be killed is to destroy her necklace.

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    • Johntoxable wrote:

      Also for good measure, the full prophecy as read by Zelena: 

      "The scorceress from another land will make Oz her home until she fulfills her destiny and unseats the greatest evil the realm has ever seen." 

      There is ANOTHER way to read that prophecy, and it may very well mean that Zelena is alive, and though quite wicked, she may have a shot at redemption yet, just like her sister.

      Zelena truly is the Sorceress from another land that makes Oz her home.  Her destiny is to unseat the greatest evil the realm has ever seen, which may very well by the DO (aka Rumple).  It may take the combined powers of Zelena, Regina, and Emma to take him down.  That might be a great way to end the series in a few years.

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    • Yeah it was a bit odd, that Gold retorted back to his dark ways, without being controlled by the dagger. It was just as weird as his seduction act (In Bleeding Through), but that was more or less weirder than him killing Zelena to honor his son (Who only said to defeat her, not kill her), and proposing to Belle and then doing bad stuff right afterwards.

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    • Rumple didn't go back to his old ways. Even the nicest person could kill the person who harm/killed their child.

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    • Ruby ridinghood wrote:
      Even the nicest person could kill the person who harm/killed their child.

      Except, Rumplestilskin dishonored Baelfire's memory, by murdering Zelena.

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    • He twisted his son's words, like he did with Belle in 2.01

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    • Dan Fox wrote:
      He twisted his son's words, like he did with Belle in 2.01

      Exactly.... and then he goes and plays the victim, by saying he technically never lies. I love Rumplestilskin, but Hook was right.... the guy is a lost cause.

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    • I like how they left Zelena, so far, open ended. Hopefully they won't totally destroy her in the final two episode of the season, that way, unlike all the other major villain who aren't in the main cast (Cora, Greg, Tamara, Peter Pan), has the possibility to come back some other time.

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    • Budloopy4 wrote: I like how they left Zelena, so far, open ended. Hopefully they won't totally destroy her in the final two episode of the season, that way, unlike all the other major villain who aren't in the main cast (Cora, Greg, Tamara, Peter Pan), has the possibility to come back some other time.

      Zelena is the best villain they've had besides Regina. I didn't care for Greg and Tamara and Pan annoyed the hell out of me. Cora used to be my favorite villain until Zelena came along.

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    • Ya, if they go back in time, I think they should bring back Cora somehow, not right away, and then have her and Zelena team up, maybe with one more addition, in like one or two seasons.

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    • Okay, this is pretty far-fetched, but who's to say that wasn't his point? Maybe he wanted to kill her knowing her death would trigger whatever that was and reopen her portal. If the portal was open, her could go back in time and reunite with Bae/Neal. That could explain why he sounded so calm when Henry points out something's amiss in the Canadian promo.

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    • It was confirmed by Adam and Eddy that that was not the last we've seen of Zelena and thta she will definetely come back for season 4! Not lying.

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    • Thegreywizard wrote:
      It was confirmed by Adam and Eddy that that was not the last we've seen of Zelena and thta she will definetely come back for season 4! Not lying.

      Do you have a link, to confirm that?

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Thegreywizard wrote:
      It was confirmed by Adam and Eddy that that was not the last we've seen of Zelena and thta she will definetely come back for season 4! Not lying.
      Do you have a link, to confirm that?

      I found this one in which they say that it is very possible that Zelena is back for the fourth season: http://www.tvguide.com/News/Once-Upon-Time-Lightning-Round-13-Kitsis-Horowitz-Spoilers-1081425.aspx

      But I swear I read another article in which they said that we would see Zelena in this Sunday's episode.

      But anyway, I feel it is true because Rebecca Mader has implied in many interviews that her character won't get killed off. Or maybe it is just me wanting it very badly.

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    • Hmm...!

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    • I'm glad Zelena and Dorothy will be back for season 4! I hope it's not a flashback. I would be so sad if it is.

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    • she's dead

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    • Sorrry to break it to you, but Examiner is not a credible source.

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    • I think, no matter what Adam and Eddy say, she is still alive somewhere. They said it may be flashbacks, which means it may be present day as well. I think she was probably sent back to Oz or something. But I 99% believe she isn't actually dead.

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    • Ruby Red Hood wrote:
      I think, no matter what Adam and Eddy say, she is still alive somewhere. They said it may be flashbacks, which means it may be present day as well. I think she was probably sent back to Oz or something. But I 99% believe she isn't actually dead.

      In the orginal Oz books she kept returning to Oz and eventually decided to live there

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    • I honestly don't think she's dead, also I honestly hope she's not dead.  She was one of the better villains and I looove her.  She's just way too powerful, I hope she comes back.  

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    • Anubis16 wrote:
      Ruby Red Hood wrote:
      I think, no matter what Adam and Eddy say, she is still alive somewhere. They said it may be flashbacks, which means it may be present day as well. I think she was probably sent back to Oz or something. But I 99% believe she isn't actually dead.
      In the orginal Oz books she kept returning to Oz and eventually decided to live there

      who decided to live there? the Wicked Witch? becuase i'm pretty sure she died in the first book. Or do you mean someone else?

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    • ^ I think they were referring to Dorothy returning and eventually living there.

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    • Hmcooper4 wrote:
      ^ I think they were referring to Dorothy returning and eventually living there.

      Yes

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    • I have a feeling that since both Zelena and Dorothy will appear at some point in season 4, it will most likely be flashbacks like with Cora and Eva.

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    • Texguy87 wrote:
      I have a feeling that since both Zelena and Dorothy will appear at some point in season 4, it will most likely be flashbacks like with Cora and Eva.

      Yeah, I agree. I think it would be absurd to revive Zelena just like that. Not that I didn't like her, on the contrary, she was one of my favs, but I wouldn't want her back. People who are dead, should stay dead (BF kind of pissed me off with returning, while Rumple coming back did feel right though)...

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    • Revival apparently has costs. That cost is that they wouldn't be the same. When Anastasia was revived with magic, she was under the influence that she was in love with Jafar. When Daniel and Gerhardt were revived per science, their souls must have been rudely forced back into their bodies and made them monstrous. Also, it was probably Daniel's fate to die (In this OUAT universe), as when he was brought back by Whale, he said something to Regina to make it stop. Meaning that if she would have kept him alive, he would be someone else, forever in pain, and never okay. Like Rumple was when he had both his mind and his son's mind. It only ended when one of them died.

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    • "Dan Fox wrote:
      Revival apparently has costs. That cost is that they wouldn't be the same. When Anastasia was revived with magic, she was under the influence that she was in love with Jafar."

      Jafar brought Ana back to life, then put a spell on her.
      Like what he did with his father.

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    • I think Zelena is dead, but she'll be back next year in flashbacks. Why do I think this? Both things were confirmed by Adam and Eddie.

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    • Like everyone else has mentioned, Zelena is likely not dead, since her life force is anchored to the pendent (although her body might well be destroyed). I wonder if her life force is going to end up in another's body (we did see ghostly procession of Cora with Snow as well as Rumples with Neil) - I see the following candidates: 1) Regina - due to having a blood relationship (and Regina has her pendent). 2) Elsa\The Frost Queen - ends up getting the pendent 3) Emma maybe - ends up getting the pendent, would be the ideal instrument to get rid of Regina...

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    • Yeah, Zelena's most likely alive within the pendant.

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    • Andrew.scott.503 wrote: Like everyone else has mentioned, Zelena is likely not dead, since her life force is anchored to the pendent (although her body might well be destroyed). I wonder if her life force is going to end up in another's body (we did see ghostly procession of Cora with Snow as well as Rumples with Neil) - I see the following candidates: 1) Regina - due to having a blood relationship (and Regina has her pendent). 2) Elsa\The Frost Queen - ends up getting the pendent 3) Emma maybe - ends up getting the pendent, would be the ideal instrument to get rid of Regina...

      OMG I'd love it to be Emma that gets possessed by Zelena if the writers decide to go that angle.

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    • If I remember correctly, it's her magic that's inside the pendant, not her life force. I really think she's a goner...

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    • ^ Yeah, could very well be. After seeing the finale, my suspicions that Zelena may still be alive are greatly diminished. 

      If that green smoke was in some way Zelena's essence/soul/life force or whatever and it went into the portal then surely it would have tried to change history...but it clearly didn't. So if we go with the principle of easiest explanation, then it was probs just her magic. 

      Don't get me wrong, I thought the whole "it's her magic granting her final wish" thing to be pretty damn weak. But it would seem to be the writers' genuine intention. 

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    • I'm pretty sure they won't kill of rumple because he told a lie dont get me wrong I HATED what he did but he's one of the main characters i don't think some people would be able to survive more than a few episodes where rumples dead like actually dead plus belle is the forgiving type and it said his proposal was genuine and he still loved her he just needed his dagger to do something belle wouldnt let her do like kill zelena and anyway i think zelena is dead i mean she turned into a china than broke into a million pieces but i think zelena if she is alive and thats a big if than she might be in the second 11 episodes of season 4 because they have elsa to worry about now they might just forget zelena i mean elsas here!

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    • I hope the Oz arc isn't over with. I could see all kinds of ways they could bring Zelena back, but if she's dead and Oz moves on, I'd be happy with that.

      Plus, the Wicked Witch of the West was not the greatest threat Oz ever faced in the books, if any one character holds that title it's probably the Nome King, Mombi or the First and Foremost of the Phanfasms. (there were some other bad threats in later Oz books by other authors, like the Mimics).

      Mombi would be perfect on Once Upon a Time, either the one from the books who is skilled in transformations or even the head switching Langwidere combo version from Return to Oz.

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    • A Spy in the Mirror
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