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  • I personally think it's a tie between Peter Pan and the Sultan actually no at least the Sultan tried to accept Jafar albeit he did a miserable job of it Pan was grown man that litterally ran off to dream land to be a child. Not to mention so far not even the Jabberwocky is shown to be willing to kill her own family. I mean Cora didn't even go through with killing Regina and one must admit there is something very very disturbing about an adult that wants to stay a child forever and is willing to kill his son, grand son and great grand son to stay that way.

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    • Sultan. Among those two most evil ones;i e Sultan and Malcolm, Atleast Malcolm did not try to kill his son. While the Sultan litarally got his hands dirty by trying to drown Jafar.

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    • I'd say its a tie between Cora and Pan. Everything Cora did was to get Regina on that throne because with Regina on the throne, Cora probably thought she'd end up getting to rule over the kingdom herself by pushing Regina around. Killing your daughter's boyfriend because her feelings for him conflict with your plans is pretty evil. Every choice Cora made was for power. Pan meanwhile chose to give Rumple up because he wanted youth, and you can't be a kid if you have a kid. He was also willing to sacrifice an 11 year old boy just to stay alive and be a kid forever. These two shaped the two main antagonists of the show into who they ultimately became when the show started, and yes I do count Rumplestiltskin as a main antagonist because of him ultimately manipulating Regina into casting the dark curse.

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    • YayMona wrote:
      I'd say its a tie between Cora and Pan. Everything Cora did was to get Regina on that throne because with Regina on the throne, Cora probably thought she'd end up getting to rule over the kingdom herself by pushing Regina around. Killing your daughter's boyfriend because her feelings for him conflict with your plans is pretty evil. Every choice Cora made was for power. Pan meanwhile chose to give Rumple up because he wanted youth, and you can't be a kid if you have a kid. He was also willing to sacrifice an 11 year old boy just to stay alive and be a kid forever. These two shaped the two main antagonists of the show into who they ultimately became when the show started, and yes I do count Rumplestiltskin as a main antagonist because of him ultimately manipulating Regina into casting the dark curse.

      Its not Cora.Its either the Sultan or Malcolm becuase Malcolm gave up his son just so he could be a kid forever and the Sultan tried to kill his son.Its not Cora becuase she loved Regina with or without her Heart.

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    • SmallvilleFanatic wrote:

      YayMona wrote:
      I'd say its a tie between Cora and Pan. Everything Cora did was to get Regina on that throne because with Regina on the throne, Cora probably thought she'd end up getting to rule over the kingdom herself by pushing Regina around. Killing your daughter's boyfriend because her feelings for him conflict with your plans is pretty evil. Every choice Cora made was for power. Pan meanwhile chose to give Rumple up because he wanted youth, and you can't be a kid if you have a kid. He was also willing to sacrifice an 11 year old boy just to stay alive and be a kid forever. These two shaped the two main antagonists of the show into who they ultimately became when the show started, and yes I do count Rumplestiltskin as a main antagonist because of him ultimately manipulating Regina into casting the dark curse.

      Its not Cora.Its either the Sultan or Malcolm becuase Malcolm gave up his son just so he could be a kid forever and the Sultan tried to kill his son.Its not Cora becuase she loved Regina with or without her Heart.

      Until that brief minute that Cora got her heart put back into her chest before dying, she was never truly capable of loving anyone or anything. What she cared about was what benefit she'd get from Regina being in a place of power. Even when she got back to Storybrooke her first move was to create situations where Regina would have to turn to her so Cora could reach her ultimate goal of becoming the dark one.

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    • Pan was the most selfish character but I wouldn't say he was the most evil. For me it's Cora.

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    • I say Jafar.

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    • Why Jafar? Jafar is not the man he is today if he was not corrupted by Sultan. 

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    • Teehee.heehee.9 wrote:
      Why Jafar? Jafar is not the man he is today if he was not corrupted by Sultan. 

      Yes, but there comes a time when a person stops being a victim and becomes the perpetrator. Look at Jafar's actions as an adult. The Sultan cannot continously be blamed once a person reaches adulthood and makes their own adult decisions to do whatever.

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    • Jafar is getting up there but I'm still gonna say Cora especially after the latest episode of OUATW. Watching her slowly corrupt a naïve girl into choosing power over love was what sealed it for me. I still say that if she were working with Jafar, she would have torn his heart out and crushed it by now.

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    • I think The Sultan is the evilest villain, purely for that act of trying to murder his own son. There is nothing more purely evil than murdering your own son. At least in my eyes.

      After the Sultan, I'm going to go with Cora. She manipulated countless people, and was willing to stomp all over anyone-including her own daughter-to get what she wanted, for power. 

      Closely behind Cora is Jafar, in my book, and closely behind him is Pancolm. Jafar comes after Cora solely because we have seen him do less torturing, manipulating, and murdering, but, for the same purpose as her: personal gain and power. Stomping all over people for his own gain.

      Pan comes after Jafar because he did manipulate and torture, but only really tried to murder one person, as far as we saw. He may have harmed more lives than Jafar, but Jafar is raw evil, and harmed those lives that he did harm far more than Pan ever did. Pan harmed more lives, but they suffered less damage each, in my opinion. Jafar's victims suffered so much more each than Pan's victims. 

      At the bottom of the list are, in this order, Regina, then Rumplestiltskin, and then Hook, as the least evil. 

      I'm not counting the Jabberwocky because she is different, in my opinion.

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    • I am surprised that the Sultan is even anywhere near the top of the list, the only person he has ever harmed, so far as we have seen, was Jafar. Sure, that was his son but I bet royalty in those days have tons of bastard children, should he really care about someone he did not personally raise or even know existed until recently. And arguably, he only wanted to kill Jafar because he was a deemed a threat to the crown prince. Let's not forget King George also tried to execute David, who was not only his adopted son but also did many heroic services for his kingdom (which is much more than what can be said of Jafar). Is King George to be considered less evil than the Sultan just because David is not his own flesh and blood?

      Not saying what the Sultan did is to be condoned but compared to the stuff other characters on the show have done such as Regina and Cora wiping out an entire village and ripping out the hearts of who knows how many people, Rumplestiltskin creating a curse that devastated an entire kingdom etc., the Sultan seems kind of tame...

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    • TomaCre: i forget about King George! That is correct! But also in Sultan's case, he actually really got his hands dirty by trying to kill JAafar with his own hands. In my opinion, it is more evil than King George who tried to use others to did his deed. 

      Although if I want to think about it now (this is in regard of mequestioning why Jafar is on the top list)., Jafar had done more killing than Cora I believe.  In the whole 10 episodes, he had killed much more people than Cora.

      And Jabbie, yeah I don't see her as an evil creature. For some odd reason I just see her as that kooky kid living down the block, who always do crazy things by herself until the bully comes and she starts following the bully's lead.  I hope she gets more evil but with 3 episodes left, I am not sure what other potential we coulsd ever see of her. I want her in the mother show!!!!!

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    • I also think it's a tie between Pan and Cora!

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    • Ok let's face it, the most evil character in the franchise is Blue Fairy ;) Kidding aside, I would say there are two levels of evilness - redeemable and irredeemable villains. In the first group there are Cora, Pan, Sultan and Jaffar. In the second group there are Regina, Rumple, Hook, Red Queen and I would say Maleficent. Wicked witch is slowly but surely climbing up the ladder (or Rapunzel's hair lol). For now she is at least the most wicked character.

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    • Arctucrus wrote: I think The Sultan is the evilest villain, purely for that act of trying to murder his own son. There is nothing more purely evil than murdering your own son. At least in my eyes.

      After the Sultan, I'm going to go with Cora. She manipulated countless people, and was willing to stomp all over anyone-including her own daughter-to get what she wanted, for power. 

      Closely behind Cora is Jafar, in my book, and closely behind him is Pancolm. Jafar comes after Cora solely because we have seen him do less torturing, manipulating, and murdering, but, for the same purpose as her: personal gain and power. Stomping all over people for his own gain.

      Pan comes after Jafar because he did manipulate and torture, but only really tried to murder one person, as far as we saw. He may have harmed more lives than Jafar, but Jafar is raw evil, and harmed those lives that he did harm far more than Pan ever did. Pan harmed more lives, but they suffered less damage each, in my opinion. Jafar's victims suffered so much more each than Pan's victims. 

      At the bottom of the list are, in this order, Regina, then Rumplestiltskin, and then Hook, as the least evil. 

      I'm not counting the Jabberwocky because she is different, in my opinion.

      That's what im trying to say.THE SULTAN IS THE EVILEST VILLAIN EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    • Prince of Rascia wrote:
      Ok let's face it, the most evil character in the franchise is Blue Fairy ;) 

      Finally, someone mentioned it.... lol!

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    • Pan... not one redeeming quality.  Even Rumple and Regina have moments of remorse or self-doubt.  Pan was evil to the core the entire time, never once showing the slightest sign of empathy or compassion.

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    • Stonicus wrote:
      Pan... not one redeeming quality.  Even Rumple and Regina have moments of remorse or self-doubt.  Pan was evil to the core the entire time, never once showing the slightest sign of empathy or compassion.

      Oh but  he did...he showed the sign of empathy toward Belle...decided to kill her AFTER Bae :D

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    • I really hope I can say "Wicked Witch of the West" in a few months. I really hope she'll get extremely evil and I think it's going that way... But if I had to chose so far, I think I would say either Cora or Peter Pan. Cora is just powerhungry and Peter Pan wants eternal youth. But I think that if Cora still had her heart, she wouldn't be so evil... So I guess it's just Peter Pan... he still had his heart when he sent Rumple away...

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    • I cant say the Sultan isn't a bad guy, but he is much softer in his latter years and was even friendly to Cyrus, Cora cared about regina, while Pan tried to make his son suffer in the end. So I would put in order: Pan, Cora, Sultan, George, Rumpel, Regina, and at the bottom Hook or Annastasia because they seemed less evil and more self motivated.

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    • Toma Cre wrote:
      I am surprised that the Sultan is even anywhere near the top of the list, the only person he has ever harmed, so far as we have seen, was Jafar. Sure, that was his son but I bet royalty in those days have tons of bastard children, should he really care about someone he did not personally raise or even know existed until recently. And arguably, he only wanted to kill Jafar because he was a deemed a threat to the crown prince. Let's not forget King George also tried to execute David, who was not only his adopted son but also did many heroic services for his kingdom (which is much more than what can be said of Jafar). Is King George to be considered less evil than the Sultan just because David is not his own flesh and blood?

      Not saying what the Sultan did is to be condoned but compared to the stuff other characters on the show have done such as Regina and Cora wiping out an entire village and ripping out the hearts of who knows how many people, Rumplestiltskin creating a curse that devastated an entire kingdom etc., the Sultan seems kind of tame...

      I totally agree and besides we have not see a real development of the Sultan's character other that he is all the time in prison.

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    • for me its between Jaffar and Cora but Cora was only so dark cause she didn't have her heart... Jaffar is evil by choice

      I don't know enough about the Jabberwocky's back story but she is deffo scary 

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    • Jafar, Cora, and Pan are insanely evil, and insane in their own way. Though Cora is more evil than her daughters combined, it's all because she didn't have a heart. Though if she did, she could still be evil. A heart either lessens it or gives it a booster. Look at Regina for exmple, she let her rage and hate get the best of her, and it made her magic more powerful. Jafar has a heart, so he can hate as well. Zelena is evil, but not much has been shown so far. Though she also has a heart, because she lets her envy lead into hatred, and that causes her evil. It is probably what caused her to be green. Preventing her and Rumple from ever trying to put on their best face. Because everyone could see from the outside that they were rotting on the inside. But Pan not only abandoned his son, but tried to destroy his future and everyone he cares about, and those who care about his son's son.

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    • Toma Cre wrote:
      I am surprised that the Sultan is even anywhere near the top of the list, the only person he has ever harmed, so far as we have seen, was Jafar. Sure, that was his son but I bet royalty in those days have tons of bastard children, should he really care about someone he did not personally raise or even know existed until recently. And arguably, he only wanted to kill Jafar because he was a deemed a threat to the crown prince. Let's not forget King George also tried to execute David, who was not only his adopted son but also did many heroic services for his kingdom (which is much more than what can be said of Jafar). Is King George to be considered less evil than the Sultan just because David is not his own flesh and blood?

      Not saying what the Sultan did is to be condoned but compared to the stuff other characters on the show have done such as Regina and Cora wiping out an entire village and ripping out the hearts of who knows how many people, Rumplestiltskin creating a curse that devastated an entire kingdom etc., the Sultan seems kind of tame...

      i agree with this post, in my eyes it doesn't matter that jafar was sultan son because sultan didn't raise him and grow to know and love him. to him jafar was just some kid that was a threat to the prince. besides he only tried to kill one person all the other villians killed mulitple people.
      i think hands down the most evil villian is cora for the simple fact she was heartless. i mean yeah pan left rumple for youth but pan tried to give rumple a chance to be by his side cora however gave her first born up sent her to a different land, killed the man her second daughter loved so she could force her to marry someone she didnt want to marry.planned to kill that daughter. then she tried to destroy the same daughter so she could need her. then she tried to kill the man she claimed to love for power. at the end of the day just like all the other villians cora would have done anything and killed anyone for power and her benefit. but she would not regret it later unlike the other villians

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    • After watching the episode Quiet Minds, I'd have to say that Zelena is making her way towards the top of the list.

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    • YayMona wrote:
      After watching the episode Quiet Minds, I'd have to say that Zelena is making her way towards the top of the list.

      Yay!!! Go team Wicked!! Though I also like Regina... I'm torn!!

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    • YayMona wrote:
      After watching the episode Quiet Minds, I'd have to say that Zelena is making her way towards the top of the list.

      I'm with you on that. =/ 

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    • Like Zelena, Jafar is in the top 5 list of most evil characters in the OUAT universe. Bringing Anastasia back to life just to make her fall in love with him in front of Will was extremely cruel.

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    • I'd say Zelena has secured the top spot after last night's episode. Jafar sounds like a close second but wanting to literally erase someone from existence is arguablly worse than wanting them dead.  

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    • Yeah i agree Zelena was horrific after "It is not easy being Green". For regina, we actually saw how she became evil. But for Zelena, it is either the writer rushing to tell us her backstory or she is inherently evil.  And what's up with all these evil people who were caused by bad parenting? Regina, Zelena, Rumpel, Jafar - they all came from evil parents. The only person that did not come out "damaged" from bad parenting is probably Geppeto. 

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    • Teehee.heehee.9 wrote: Yeah i agree Zelena was horrific after "It is not easy being Green". For regina, we actually saw how she became evil. But for Zelena, it is either the writer rushing to tell us her backstory or she is inherently evil.  And what's up with all these evil people who were caused by bad parenting? Regina, Zelena, Rumpel, Jafar - they all came from evil parents. The only person that did not come out "damaged" from bad parenting is probably Geppeto. 

      What about Snow? She grew up with an Evil Stepmother. And so did Cinderella. And Emma got really bad parenting.

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    • I thought, no one would beat Peter Pan, in the evil department. After watching It's Not Easy Being Green, I would say, Zelena may have taken that crown. She is a word-that-rhymes-with-witch, and her motive is so weak. The girl would count herself lucky, that Cora abondoned her.... but no, she needs to be jealous of everyone.

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    • WinterWoodsGal wrote:

      Teehee.heehee.9 wrote: Yeah i agree Zelena was horrific after "It is not easy being Green". For regina, we actually saw how she became evil. But for Zelena, it is either the writer rushing to tell us her backstory or she is inherently evil.  And what's up with all these evil people who were caused by bad parenting? Regina, Zelena, Rumpel, Jafar - they all came from evil parents. The only person that did not come out "damaged" from bad parenting is probably Geppeto. 

      What about Snow? She grew up with an Evil Stepmother. And so did Cinderella. And Emma got really bad parenting.

      It took YEARS before Regina showed her true colours to Snow, so we can assume she grew up in a normal household until King Leopold was killed. Besides, Cinderella was somewhat of a calculating person, and Emma... well, she does have a difficult temper.

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote: I thought, no one would beat Peter Pan, in the evil department. After watching It's Not Easy Being Green, I would say, Zelena may have taken that crown. She is a word-that-rhymes-with-witch, and her motive is so weak. The girl would count herself lucky, that Cora abondoned her.... but no, she needs to be jealous of everyone.

      Her motive is not weak. Be abandoned, left out, and passed over a few times. Then we'll talk.

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    • Agreed. Zelena had clearly suffered emotional abuse from her adopted father for having magic. Seeing Regina being taught it was a gift was clearly the start of a breaking point for her. Going off topic for a moment, is anyone besides me even more curious about her real dad now? She could do magic as a baby and apparently had no claim to a royal title so that leaves out Leopold I think and the way Rumple reacted, I doubt it's him. So who? Some very powerful wizard from another world? The dragon perhaps...?

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    • I'm sticking with Pan, then Cora. We've seen what twisted everyone else into who they are, but these two are the only villains I have never felt anything for. It's a special kind of evil, imo, to abandon your child.

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    • Geordiegaviino wrote: for me its between Jaffar and Cora but Cora was only so dark cause she didn't have her heart... Jaffar is evil by choice

      I don't know enough about the Jabberwocky's back story but she is deffo scary 

      You also have to remember, Cora chose power over her heart. She was heartless by choice.

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    • She was already evil and heartless before she removed it. She was planning to give her child to Rumple, a man she could see was full of dark intent. She was pursuing a relationship with him even while betrothed. Then, she chose her own desires for power over love... She's pretty awful from the start XD

      I mean, i don't feel there was enough twisting in her past to justify her later actions. Your father is a drunk miller? Boo-freaking-hoo. XD

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      She was already evil and heartless before she removed it. She was planning to give her child to Rumple, a man she could see was full of dark intent. She was pursuing a relationship with him even while betrothed. Then, she chose her own desires for power over love... She's pretty awful from the start XD

      I mean, i don't feel there was enough twisting in her past to justify her later actions. Your father is a drunk miller? Boo-freaking-hoo. XD

      I agree with mostly everything you wrote, but we should also remember that with OUaT there is always more than meets the eye. We haven't fully explored Cora's backstory so it is still possible something happened to her that changed her even before she met Rumple and royal family. 

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    • Very true, however, I don't want to see it. XD I'm just fine with believing she's just... evil.

      I know, "evil isn't born, it's made", but I like to think that for some people, it didn't take very much XD

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      Very true, however, I don't want to see it. XD I'm just fine with believing she's just... evil.

      I know, "evil isn't born, it's made", but I like to think that for some people, it didn't take very much XD

      I actually want to believe that it was her ambition that made her the way she was. Like, she was not evil to begin with but slowly became evil thanks to her crazy ambition.

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    • Despite it all, I say Regina. "The Queen Is Dead, Long Live THE EVIL QUEEN"

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    • Prince of Rascia wrote:

      I actually want to believe that it was her ambition that made her the way she was. Like, she was not evil to begin with but slowly became evil thanks to her crazy ambition. </div> I like this idea. It certainly did cause her to do all sorts of despicable things.

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    • Utter solitude wrote:

      Prince of Rascia wrote:

      I actually want to believe that it was her ambition that made her the way she was. Like, she was not evil to begin with but slowly became evil thanks to her crazy ambition.

      I like this idea. It certainly did cause her to do all sorts of despicable things. </div>

      And we've seen in OUaTiW how having your heart can make you a very different person than not having it.

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    • WinterWoodsGal wrote: And we've seen in OUaTiW how having your heart can make you a very different person than not having it.

      Very true. There was a marked difference between Will with his heart and without.

      However, I don't think that makes Cora evil. Removing her heart was just a part of her bigger goals.

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    • Utter solitude wrote:

      WinterWoodsGal wrote: And we've seen in OUaTiW how having your heart can make you a very different person than not having it.

      Very true. There was a marked difference between Will with his heart and without.

      However, I don't think that makes Cora evil. Removing her heart was just a part of her bigger goals.

      At least she wasn't just like 'I took out my heart and I don't care' she was more like 'love is something I can't afford so I'm afraid to get what I want I need to take out my heart'

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    • WinterWoodsGal wrote:

      At least she wasn't just like 'I took out my heart and I don't care' she was more like 'love is something I can't afford so I'm afraid to get what I want I need to take out my heart'

      I absolutely loved that. She had a true, deep motive for it. She knew it would have held her back, and her ambition was so strong she was willing to give it up.

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    • Utter solitude wrote:

      WinterWoodsGal wrote:

      At least she wasn't just like 'I took out my heart and I don't care' she was more like 'love is something I can't afford so I'm afraid to get what I want I need to take out my heart'

      I absolutely loved that. She had a true, deep motive for it. She knew it would have held her back, and her ambition was so strong she was willing to give it up.

      And she did it before she had Regina, which means she didn't decide to stop loving her daughter, she simply had already taken out her heart, and to quote Will 'got used to the emptiness'

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    • I adore Regina, but I have to say her. She cursed multiple worlds, killed her FATHER, her HUSBAND, sent a pirate to kill her MOTHER, she tried countless times to kill her STEPDAUGHTER and have we all forgotten that she made Henry think that he was INSANE? She's the worst of them all.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      I adore Regina, but I have to say her. She cursed multiple worlds, killed her FATHER, her HUSBAND, sent a pirate to kill her MOTHER, she tried countless times to kill her STEPDAUGHTER and have we all forgotten that she made Henry think that he was INSANE? She's the worst of them all.



      She definitely have done some terrible things, but for some reason I think people don't think she is that evil. I think it's because they have seen why she became the monster she is and because unlike other villians she had tried to redeem herself. 

       

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    • Seeing the origin does tend to make people forget all the terrible things.

      When I pick out my most evil, they're all fairly evenly matched. Regina and Rumple are still evil, to me. However, I look at the motives. Regina was consumed by her vengeance and Rumple would stop at nothing for his son..

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    • Jafar... even after he got what he wanted and changed the laws of magic, he killed his father, made Will's gf fall in love with him in front of his face, and was going to make it so Alice never met Cyrus, and none of those things benefited him in any way other than to satisfy his sadistic desires.  Every other villain had some reason for the things they did, as twisted as that reason may have been.  Jafar is the only one who was evil simply for the sake of being evil.

      Earlier I had posted Pan as most evil, but I hadn't watched Wonderland... Now it is Jafar with Pan second...

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    • Stonicus wrote:
      Jafar... even after he got what he wanted and changed the laws of magic, he killed his father, made Will's gf fall in love with im in front of his face, and was going to make it so Alice never met Cyrus, and none of those things benefited him in any way other than to satisfy his sadistic desires.  Every other villain had some reason for the things they did, as twisted as that reason may have been.  Jafar is the only one who was evil simply for the sake of being evil.

      That makes more sense. I think I agree.


      My list goes:

      Jafar

      Peter Pan

      Cora

      Rumplestilstskin

      Regina

      Wicked Witch Of The West (so far)

      Anastasia

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    • Anastasia wasnt really evil

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    • WinterWoodsGal wrote:
      Anastasia wasnt really evil

      She isn't even qualified for slightly awful! If that! All she did was leave her boyfriend, marry a king, and did a crappy job of running a kingdom

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    • JezeBella Skytiger wrote:
      WinterWoodsGal wrote:
      Anastasia wasnt really evil
      She isn't even qualified for slightly awful! If that! All she did was leave her boyfriend, marry a king, and did a crappy job of running a kingdom


      I agree... the truly worst thing she did was abandoned her true love... but she quickly realized she messed up... despite the evil things she may have done after that, it was an attempt to change her decision to return to her true love... she's a little twisted and unorthodox, but not evil...

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    • Ana was a bad person. BUt at the end, she had redeeming quality. But she was quite a b****. 

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    • Teehee.heehee.9 wrote:
      Ana was a bad person. BUt at the end, she had redeeming quality. But she was quite a b****. 

      That's it. She wasn't a villain. She was an antagonist. Difference. lol

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    • Didn't Cora make Anna stop fighting for Will? This definitely adds to Cora's "list of bad things", so to speak, giving her yet another reason to be in the top 3. She just didn't care about Will or Anna...

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    • What was Cora's reason again to make Ana the Red Queen?

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    • Teehee.heehee.9 wrote:
      What was Cora's reason again to make Ana the Red Queen?


      Cora didn't do anything.  Ana became the Red Queen when she married the Red King.  Cora was in favor it however, because she didn't get along with the Red King and she thought Ana would be easier to manipulate once the Red King was gone.

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    • I think Cora is the most evil out there :P

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Yeah Cora is the worst. Eva is a possibility, but Cora got herself in hot water and basically blamed her woes on her firstborn child (Zelena), and then abandoned her, so she could give herself, her very best chance. Then she did crazy stuff to make her other daughter an evil queen, who seems to repel and dispel of happiness. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Dan Fox wrote: Eva is a possibility

      I don't know how Eva could ever be a possibility of the worst villain based on what we've seen so far. Princess Eva was nasty, but she was made out to be far worse in this latest episode than she actually was. It's shocking how much is being made of Eva's correct decision to tell Leopold Cora was trying to con him. Eva did it with the worst of intentions (a broken clock is always right twice a day), but that doesn't mean he didn't deserve to know and it certainly doesn't mean that Cora had any right to con someone else just because she was conned herself. Leopold even seemed sincere in marrying her despite the baby, if she hadn't said to his face that the baby didn't exist and then Eva proved she was lying. I'd still like to see what event caused Eva to become the person who chastised Snow for thinking she was better than her subjects. But she still hasn't done anything near as awful as the other villains.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Mewiet wrote:

      Dan Fox wrote: Eva is a possibility

      I don't know how Eva could ever be a possibility of the worst villain based on what we've seen so far. Princess Eva was nasty, but she was made out to be far worse in this latest episode than she actually was. It's shocking how much is being made of Eva's correct decision to tell Leopold Cora was trying to con him. Eva did it with the worst of intentions (a broken clock is always right twice a day), but that doesn't mean he didn't deserve to know and it certainly doesn't mean that Cora had any right to con someone else just because she was conned herself. Leopold even seemed sincere in marrying her despite the baby, if she hadn't said to his face that the baby didn't exist and then Eva proved she was lying. I'd still like to see what event caused Eva to become the person who chastised Snow for thinking she was better than her subjects. But she still hasn't done anything near as awful as the other villains.

      I'm not sure if this would cause Eva to become a better person, but do you think after Cora learned magic she could have found Leopold and turned him into a frog and somehow Eva's search for him made her into a better person, I don't know it's just an idea

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • ^^^Hahaha, I actually kind of like that idea. 

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    • One can only imagine how bad the villains would be if they had the Horned King or Chernobog on the show. =)

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I am waiting for the frog prince to appear, but I don't think it would fit Leopold, though...

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    • Stonicus wrote:
      JezeBella Skytiger wrote:
      WinterWoodsGal wrote:
      Anastasia wasnt really evil
      She isn't even qualified for slightly awful! If that! All she did was leave her boyfriend, marry a king, and did a crappy job of running a kingdom

      I agree... the truly worst thing she did was abandoned her true love... but she quickly realized she messed up... despite the evil things she may have done after that, it was an attempt to change her decision to return to her true love... she's a little twisted and unorthodox, but not evil...


      Except that she pushed Cyrus into a boiling sea, turned Grendel into a hideous monster, kidnapped and imprisoned the White Rabbit's wife and two young children, nearly publicly executed Will (even though she supposedly loves him), and chopped off Tweedledee's head and put it into a box while magically keeping it alive.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Toma Cre wrote:
      Stonicus wrote:
      JezeBella Skytiger wrote:
      WinterWoodsGal wrote:
      Anastasia wasnt really evil
      She isn't even qualified for slightly awful! If that! All she did was leave her boyfriend, marry a king, and did a crappy job of running a kingdom

      I agree... the truly worst thing she did was abandoned her true love... but she quickly realized she messed up... despite the evil things she may have done after that, it was an attempt to change her decision to return to her true love... she's a little twisted and unorthodox, but not evil...

      Except that she pushed Cyrus into a boiling sea, turned Grendel into a hideous monster, kidnapped and imprisoned the White Rabbit's wife and two young children, nearly publicly executed Will (even though she supposedly loves him), and chopped off Tweedledee's head and put it into a box while magically keeping it alive.

      All these things she did to help Jafar change the laws of magic and so to be with Will, safely back in Sherwood. Still not really evil, naive but not evil...

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Toma Cre wrote:
      Stonicus wrote:
      JezeBella Skytiger wrote:
      WinterWoodsGal wrote:
      Anastasia wasnt really evil
      She isn't even qualified for slightly awful! If that! All she did was leave her boyfriend, marry a king, and did a crappy job of running a kingdom

      I agree... the truly worst thing she did was abandoned her true love... but she quickly realized she messed up... despite the evil things she may have done after that, it was an attempt to change her decision to return to her true love... she's a little twisted and unorthodox, but not evil...

      Except that she pushed Cyrus into a boiling sea, turned Grendel into a hideous monster, kidnapped and imprisoned the White Rabbit's wife and two young children, nearly publicly executed Will (even though she supposedly loves him), and chopped off Tweedledee's head and put it into a box while magically keeping it alive.

      Well, she knew Jafar was waiting to catch Cyrus... as for the rest, if her plan worked, none of that would have never happened...

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Peter Pan then Rumple.

      Peter was just so evil for the reasons people have listed above. He didn't have as good a reason as everyone else for being evil.

      And yes, I do find Rumple more evil than Cora (shock horror!) because he was THE DARK ONE. People just seem to forget about all his previous actions. He began to skin Robin before Belle saved him, he turned a man into a snail then stood on him. Yes, Cora was evil, but I think just being the dark one made him more evil.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • With me I consider a person a villian based on how they are now and not then and that's why I'm so adament about Rumple being considered a hero instead of a villian. You can also see Cora a hero this way as she was incapable of loving someone and showing it but she did't seem to nice as a ghost so...

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • snow white as a kid.

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    • Lygarx wrote:
      snow white as a kid.

      XD

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Becky411234 wrote:
      With me I consider a person a villian based on how they are now and not then and that's why I'm so adament about Rumple being considered a hero instead of a villian. You can also see Cora a hero this way as she was incapable of loving someone and showing it but she did't seem to nice as a ghost so...

      How on earth can you see Cora as a hero?????

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Dr. Kangaroo wrote:
      Becky411234 wrote:
      With me I consider a person a villian based on how they are now and not then and that's why I'm so adament about Rumple being considered a hero instead of a villian. You can also see Cora a hero this way as she was incapable of loving someone and showing it but she did't seem to nice as a ghost so...
      How on earth can you see Cora as a hero?????


      Just playing devil's advocate here, but she did give the woman who killed her information that may help her stop Zelena...

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    • Lygarx wrote:
      snow white as a kid.



      how?

      o
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    • Anubis16
      Anubis16 removed this reply because:
      Wrong theread
      02:35, May 1, 2014
      This reply has been removed
    • Without a doubt: King Midas.

      1. First and foremost, there aren't a lot of actual dragons in any of the realms any more. The one in Midas's kingdom is the only real one shown. Maleficent isn't actually a dragon (that we know of). So what does Midas do? He becomes Hell-bent on wiping it out, with the flimsy excuse that it's taking livestock, which I don't even believe. Flight is an exhausting excercise, especially for something so big, and the poor thing's lair is way up in the mountains. It's trying to stay AWAY from people. It's trying NOT to get slain. The poor sweet thing is scared to death! Yet Midas wants nothing so much as that dragon gone. This isn't even the worst part.

      2. We see a shot of the gold-petrified dragon head (and let's be honest, if his touch is powerful enough to work on a dragon, he should have been out there slaying it himself - I kind of get the idea that he gets some perverse thrill out of sending people to their deaths and that getting a husband for his daughter was the ONLY object of this game, played at the expense of the poor innocent dragon's life, but this is just an aside) and we hear Midas talking about where in his collection it's going to go.

      3. SO HOLD ON A TICK! He has a whole collection??!! He does this for FUN?! Apparently! Apparently he pays Regina for the use of her mirror, too. "Mirror, mirror, on the wall, show me the RAREST of them all. ...Ah, an ivory-billed woodpecker with chicks! Last in the land! Spledid! And it's in the forest just one kingdom over. Servants, fetch my ladder and carriage; we're going hunting." This is not an exaggeration, unless we are to believe the king is content to populate his ROYAL collection of petrified species with common grey squirrels and rock doves.

      4. All this is saying little of the INTENTIONAL practice of petrification of animals to begin with. Think about it; it's a curse. You can be brought back afterwards, by magic water, and as we all know, magic cannot restore life. So the poor innocent critters Midas keeps (unless he does kill them first) are caught in a horrible limbo between life and death, frozen in hideous mockeries of their own forms. And he does this to amuse himself. There is no question. The most evil ruler in the Enchanted Forest is the one skipping happily through the trees, tagging all the life he sees with his vile cursed hand, and picking over the remains. How many "golden" eagles do you suppose he tagged before he got one in just the right pose to look perfect in his collection?

      Oh, P.S., we're not talking about "animals" as they are percieved in the real world. We're talking about beings which are [ethically] people. We know that birds at least, in the Enchanted Forest, are intelligent. They can talk about peoples' evil plans (Pilot episode). They can also relay information (from Cora to Snow White in "Into the Deep"). Dragons, according to most lore, are also intelligent. That's a 21 on the Scale of Evil. 21 out of a possible 22. "21 - Psychopaths who do not kill their victims, but do subject them to extreme torture"

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Spincha wrote:
      Without a doubt: King Midas.

      1. First and foremost, there aren't a lot of actual dragons in any of the realms any more. The one in Midas's kingdom is the only real one shown. Maleficent isn't actually a dragon (that we know of). So what does Midas do? He becomes Hell-bent on wiping it out, with the flimsy excuse that it's taking livestock, which I don't even believe. Flight in an exhausting excercise, especially for something so big, and the poor thing's lair is way up in the mountains. It's trying to stay AWAY from people. It's trying NOT to get slain. The poor sweet thing is scared to death! Yet Midas wants nothing so much as that dragon gone. This isn't even the worst part.

      2. We see a shot of the gold-petrified dragon head (and let's be honest, if his touch is powerful enough to work on a dragon, he should have been out there slaying it himself - I kind of get the idea that he gets some perverse thrill out of sending people to their deaths and that getting a husband for his daughter was the ONLY object of this game, played at the expense of the poor innocent dragon's life, but this is just an aside) and we hear Midas talking about where in his collection it's going to go.

      3. SO HOLD ON A TICK! He has a whole collection??!! He does this for FUN?! Apparently! Apparently he pays Regina for the use of her mirror, too. "Mirror, mirror, on the wall, show me the RAREST of them all. ...Ah, an ivory-billed woodpecker with chicks! Last in the land! Spledid! And it's in the forest just one kingdom over. Servants, fetch my ladder and carriage; we're going hunting." This is not an exaggeration, unless we are to believe the king is content to populate his ROYAL collection of petrified species with common grey squirrels and rock doves.

      4. All this is saying little of the INTENTIONAL practice of petrification of animals to begin with. Think about it; it's a curse. You can be brought back afterwards, by magic water, and as we all know, magic cannot restore life. So the poor innocent critters Midas keeps (unless he does kill them first) are caught in a horrible limbo between life and death, frozen in hideous mockeries of their own forms. And he does this to amuse himself. There is no question. The most evil ruler in the Enchanted Forest is the one skipping happily through the trees, tagging all the life he sees with his vile cursed hand, and picking over the remains. How many "golden" eagles do you suppose he tagged before he got one in just the right pose to look perfect in his collection?

      Will you marry me

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Spincha wrote:
      Without a doubt: King Midas.

      1. First and foremost, there aren't a lot of actual dragons in any of the realms any more. The one in Midas's kingdom is the only real one shown. Maleficent isn't actually a dragon (that we know of). So what does Midas do? He becomes Hell-bent on wiping it out, with the flimsy excuse that it's taking livestock, which I don't even believe. Flight is an exhausting excercise, especially for something so big, and the poor thing's lair is way up in the mountains. It's trying to stay AWAY from people. It's trying NOT to get slain. The poor sweet thing is scared to death! Yet Midas wants nothing so much as that dragon gone. This isn't even the worst part.

      2. We see a shot of the gold-petrified dragon head (and let's be honest, if his touch is powerful enough to work on a dragon, he should have been out there slaying it himself - I kind of get the idea that he gets some perverse thrill out of sending people to their deaths and that getting a husband for his daughter was the ONLY object of this game, played at the expense of the poor innocent dragon's life, but this is just an aside) and we hear Midas talking about where in his collection it's going to go.

      3. SO HOLD ON A TICK! He has a whole collection??!! He does this for FUN?! Apparently! Apparently he pays Regina for the use of her mirror, too. "Mirror, mirror, on the wall, show me the RAREST of them all. ...Ah, an ivory-billed woodpecker with chicks! Last in the land! Spledid! And it's in the forest just one kingdom over. Servants, fetch my ladder and carriage; we're going hunting." This is not an exaggeration, unless we are to believe the king is content to populate his ROYAL collection of petrified species with common grey squirrels and rock doves.

      4. All this is saying little of the INTENTIONAL practice of petrification of animals to begin with. Think about it; it's a curse. You can be brought back afterwards, by magic water, and as we all know, magic cannot restore life. So the poor innocent critters Midas keeps (unless he does kill them first) are caught in a horrible limbo between life and death, frozen in hideous mockeries of their own forms. And he does this to amuse himself. There is no question. The most evil ruler in the Enchanted Forest is the one skipping happily through the trees, tagging all the life he sees with his vile cursed hand, and picking over the remains. How many "golden" eagles do you suppose he tagged before he got one in just the right pose to look perfect in his collection?

      Oh, P.S., we're not talking about "animals" as they are percieved in the real world. We're talking about beings which are [ethically] people. We know that birds at least, in the Enchanted Forest, are intelligent. They can talk about peoples' evil plans (Pilot episode). They can also relay information (from Cora to Snow White in "Into the Deep"). Dragons, according to most lore, are also intelligent. That's a 21 on the Scale of Evil. 21 out of a possible 22. "21 - Psychopaths who do not kill their victims, but do subject them to extreme torture"


      Spincha,

      Love it! However, I doubt that it will even be realized. Although we all know Princess Abigail is to appear in season 3 finale. And we all know the finale is when they introduce the new villain for next season!. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Anubis16
      Anubis16 removed this reply because:
      Wrong thread
      19:35, May 2, 2014
      This reply has been removed
    • Maybe Abigail and Frederick are the ones who will be having the splashy wedding...

      Pandora wasn't evil, she was the first woman and her story of opening the box is akin to Eve eating the fruit of knowledge.  She didn't do it to release the evil, she was just curious.  Though, this show doesn't always stick to the original tales... =)  But it also makes me wonder, Rumple was inside Pandora's box, but according to the myths, the evil had already been released and all that was in the box was hope.  It should have been a nice place to be trapped.  =)

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Oh, I also thought of something else.

      I don't believe what happened to Frederick was an accident. Midas touched James's sword, and changed it while James was holding it. James wasn't affected.

      Frederick was completely covered in armour. Chain shirt, guantlets... the works.

      I think it would be silly that Midas's touch could "bleed" like this in the first place, even if they hadn't specifically showed that it couldn't. I find it slightly less absurd that if a person is the thing being petrified, it gets the clothing and items carried, too. (We can't have naked statues strewn all over the land after all.) Even Ruby's transformations allow her to take clothing with. Magic taking the clothing with the person is a little believable and a lot necessary. Magic taking the person with the clothing is absurd and silly. I'm just wondering why they felt they needed to waste time on showing the sword thing if we're not supposed to put this together. They are specifically showing that the touch DOES NOT BLEED! They are taking time out to do this. "Down payment"? How silly. Because Midas totally doesn't have the cash. *eyeroll* The touch CAN'T bleed. If it did we'd have a whole realm frozen in gold.

      I think Midas didn't like Frederick. I don't think he liked anyone, and I think that was the purpose of the dragon test. I think Abigail actually really liked Charming (Katherine seemed to, and hey, same person) and her blase, "Oh, I guess he'll do." is an act because she knows exactly what happens if there's a chance at true happiness: Her overprotective, crazy, malicious father takes it away because he can. In the commotion (and Midas probably had a hand in arranging the situation in the first place) he reached under Frederick's chain shirt and tagged him. He did this out of spite, and nastiness, and the most chilling, poignant villainy imaginable, because it's completely true to life. Everybody knows someone who has a parent like this: Basically a naked mole rat (or meerkat if you like) dead-set on their children never being anything but asexual worker bees. They forbid dating for obscene amount of time, hoping the child will never mate sucessfully. If the child gets a chance to mate anyway in adulthood, the parent will go ballistic and find some way to ruin it.

      I'm also a little sad about the Greek stuff always being a side thing. It would be nice if they explored it more but I think they strain believability as it is by mixing so many mythologies, and the problem with doing something Greek is that it's based on a real place in our realm's past, so where exactly would they go? Oz and Neverland are built right in as other realms through their own stories. They're easy. If they wanted to do something Aurthurian they could get around this by going to Avalon. They've pretty well ruined the Greek possibility though, by already having gorgons like Medusa show up in the Enchanted Forest. Then again they could always find a way to Calypso's hidden island. Maybe it's a gateway. Maybe it floats around.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Spincha wrote:
      Oh, I also thought of something else.

      I don't believe what happened to Frederick was an accident. Midas touched James's sword, and changed it while James was holding it. James wasn't affected.

      Frederick was completely covered in armour. Chain shirt, guantlets... the works.

      I think it would be silly that Midas's touch could "bleed" like this in the first place, even if they hadn't specifically showed that it couldn't.


      If it bled through like that, the entire world would be solid gold...

      But, if MIdas was truly that evil, he would flood the world with gold and crash the economy.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Stonicus wrote:
      Spincha wrote:
      Oh, I also thought of something else.

      I don't believe what happened to Frederick was an accident. Midas touched James's sword, and changed it while James was holding it. James wasn't affected.

      Frederick was completely covered in armour. Chain shirt, guantlets... the works.

      I think it would be silly that Midas's touch could "bleed" like this in the first place, even if they hadn't specifically showed that it couldn't.


      If it bled through like that, the entire world would be solid gold...

      But, if MIdas was truly that evil, he would flood the world with gold and crash the economy.

      I don't think so. Keeping gold valuable is keeping him rich. Everyone in the series who creates gold (Midas, Cora, Rumplestiltskin) knows this. Someone who would flood the world with gold would probably be good-aligned, albeit probably chaotic and misguided.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Ruby Red Hood wrote:
      Peter Pan then Rumple.

      Peter was just so evil for the reasons people have listed above. He didn't have as good a reason as everyone else for being evil.

      And yes, I do find Rumple more evil than Cora (shock horror!) because he was THE DARK ONE. People just seem to forget about all his previous actions. He began to skin Robin before Belle saved him, he turned a man into a snail then stood on him. Yes, Cora was evil, but I think just being the dark one made him more evil.


      Actually I'd like to make the case that Rumplestiltskin wasn't really all that evil, just crazy. He was so paranoid and out of it that he percieved the kind of threat to his kid that utterly wasn't there. The less control he has, the more threat he percieves, the crazier he acts. No one has ever actually owned his dagger until recently, and he goes completely wonkers.

      My serious tabulation includes Jafar just after Midas, not because of what he wanted, but because he murdered his own teacher just to get a little bit more powerful more quickly. That kind of impatient betrayal, aimed at someone who only ever tried to help you, is something far beyond what any others in the series are capable of. Regina was actually thoroughly wronged. Cora killed people in her way, not people who only assisted her... And she even (it looks like) gave Snow White a chance to change alignment and presumably (if she stood on Cora's side) inherit the kingdom she was supposed to inherit.

      As far as Peter Pan? Selfish child. No more villainous than any other selfish child, just a bit more magically capable. Does not even belong on the list.

      Midas

      Jafar

      Regina

      Zelena

      Cora

      Rumplestiltskin

      Why do I put Regina before Cora? Regina has an interest in torture and revenge. To me it looks like Cora will do whatever it takes, but is more self-interested. Rumplestiltskin belongs at the bottom. Though truly a villain because of his actual actions, they play up the coward and survivalist theme. He's evil the way an animal in a corner is evil. He gets a few points for clearly overreacting to almost entirely imaginary danger, but he loses most of them again because he's nuts and truly percieves that there is that danger.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Spincha wrote:
      Ruby Red Hood wrote:
      Peter Pan then Rumple.

      Peter was just so evil for the reasons people have listed above. He didn't have as good a reason as everyone else for being evil.

      And yes, I do find Rumple more evil than Cora (shock horror!) because he was THE DARK ONE. People just seem to forget about all his previous actions. He began to skin Robin before Belle saved him, he turned a man into a snail then stood on him. Yes, Cora was evil, but I think just being the dark one made him more evil.


      Actually I'd like to make the case that Rumplestiltskin wasn't really all that evil, just crazy. He was so paranoid and out of it that he percieved the kind of threat to his kid that utterly wasn't there. The less control he has, the more threat he percieves, the crazier he acts. No one has ever actually owned his dagger until recently, and he goes completely wonkers.

      My serious tabulation includes Jafar just after Midas, not because of what he wanted, but because he murdered his own teacher just to get a little bit more powerful more quickly. That kind of impatient betrayal, aimed at someone who only ever tried to help you, is something far beyond what any others in the series are capable of. Regina was actually thoroughly wronged. Cora killed people in her way, not people who only assisted her... And she even (it looks like) gave Snow White a chance to change alignment and presumably (if she stood on Cora's side) inherit the kingdom she was supposed to inherit.

      As far as Peter Pan? Selfish child. No more villainous than any other selfish child, just a bit more magically capable. Does not even belong on the list.

      Midas

      Jafar

      Regina

      Zelena

      Cora

      Rumplestiltskin

      Why do I put Regina before Cora? Regina has an interest in torture and revenge. To me it looks like Cora will do whatever it takes, but is more self-interested. Rumplestiltskin belongs at the bottom. Though truly a villain because of his actual actions, they play up the coward and survivalist theme. He's evil the way an animal in a corner is evil. He gets a few points for clearly overreacting to almost entirely imaginary danger, but he loses most of them again because he's nuts and truly percieves that there is that danger.


      I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks Cora isn't as evil as some people make out anyway. I think the Midas theory is going a bit far, since if he was a villain they probably would've made him seem more villainous. Yeah, with Rumple though, he tortured Robin. Don't know who Regina tortured although she did kill people. Also, what do you think Regina did to Belle? Because Belle said Regina pyshically hurt her.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Physically? I could see emotionally, mentally, and psychologically, but- Actually, she might of have just starved her and kept her locked up, which isn't good for physical health, when you don't actually do stuff. 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • She locked her in a cell, that's kind of "physical", I suppose.

      I mean, her hair in that psych ward was awful XD

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • And then it straightened itself out. However it didn't grow out all crazy and long like Rapunzel's hair.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I haven't seen the Franchise so i won't bother with that. But the original?


      1. Peter Pan - He was so twisted that he contradicted Adam And Eddie's 'Evil isn't born it's made' theory, Malcolm was a sociopath from the beginning that never loved his son. He was also the kep puppet master in the events that took place and was able to manipulate who we originally thought were puppet masters, he was literallty irredeemable.

      2. Cora - She was a sociopath throughout most her life but only because she removed her heart, she was kinda redeemed in the end.

      3. Regina - Redeemed now, but as a Ruler she was democidal, infact i believe she probably has the highest bodycount on screen. She wiped out villages trying to find Snow, raped and killed the huntsman, Killed Leopold, Killed both her parents (or attempted to). Even on her redemption arc she was willing to wipe out all of Storybrooke just to take Henry back to FTL.

      4. Zelena - She might be moved higher on this in the future, but for now i place her behind her sister because her reason for mass murder is a little less petty (only just).

      5. Rumpelstilskin - Also redeemed but is still the dark one, he has messed with lots of lives to get to where he is now, he was going down the mass murderer road until Bae fell into the portal, which at least gave him a justiable goal to create the dark curse.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Spincha wrote:
      Ruby Red Hood wrote:
      Peter Pan then Rumple.

      Peter was just so evil for the reasons people have listed above. He didn't have as good a reason as everyone else for being evil.

      And yes, I do find Rumple more evil than Cora (shock horror!) because he was THE DARK ONE. People just seem to forget about all his previous actions. He began to skin Robin before Belle saved him, he turned a man into a snail then stood on him. Yes, Cora was evil, but I think just being the dark one made him more evil.


      Actually I'd like to make the case that Rumplestiltskin wasn't really all that evil, just crazy. He was so paranoid and out of it that he percieved the kind of threat to his kid that utterly wasn't there. The less control he has, the more threat he percieves, the crazier he acts. No one has ever actually owned his dagger until recently, and he goes completely wonkers.

      My serious tabulation includes Jafar just after Midas, not because of what he wanted, but because he murdered his own teacher just to get a little bit more powerful more quickly. That kind of impatient betrayal, aimed at someone who only ever tried to help you, is something far beyond what any others in the series are capable of. Regina was actually thoroughly wronged. Cora killed people in her way, not people who only assisted her... And she even (it looks like) gave Snow White a chance to change alignment and presumably (if she stood on Cora's side) inherit the kingdom she was supposed to inherit.

      As far as Peter Pan? Selfish child. No more villainous than any other selfish child, just a bit more magically capable. Does not even belong on the list.

      Midas

      Jafar

      Regina

      Zelena

      Cora

      Rumplestiltskin

      Why do I put Regina before Cora? Regina has an interest in torture and revenge. To me it looks like Cora will do whatever it takes, but is more self-interested. Rumplestiltskin belongs at the bottom. Though truly a villain because of his actual actions, they play up the coward and survivalist theme. He's evil the way an animal in a corner is evil. He gets a few points for clearly overreacting to almost entirely imaginary danger, but he loses most of them again because he's nuts and truly percieves that there is that danger.

      Are you serious? Peter Pan was not even a child to begin with, he was a sociopathic monster hidden in a childs body, Robbie Kay's charm shouldn't change the fact that he was a vile human being. He killed his most loyal follower with no remorse at all, and was going to kill all of the protagonists one by one before commiting democide on Storybrooke. No one was worse than him.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • ^^^^Couldn't agree more~^^^^

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    • The thing with Peter Pan was that he never mentally became an adult. He did some of the most heinous actions in the series, was willing to go as far sacrificing his most loyal henchman, and that, based on utter lack of remorse, puts him possibly ahead of even Jafar and just below Midas. I just have a hard time faulting him for those actions. (I've known way too many people with kids just like that.) He was a child in an adult's body who traded his child for a child's body.

      It's a little unfair, but the most socially forward perspective on evil admits that children just can't be expected if they don't reach a certain developmental stage, and some people actually never go formal operational. If the body matters, then he became a child and that's that. If the body doesn't matter, he was never an adult at any time.

      I think real villains always know better. They do it anyway. They make those horrible choices, knowing they're horrible. That's the black heart of true villainy. It is also its white shadow: The possibility of redemption. This light and dark are both totally necessary to complete villainy. Making them both as intense as possible without destroying believability as the fine art of crafting a beautifully evil villain.

      Now as for who Regina tortured, that would be anyone she put under a sleeping curse. That would be gloating over Mary Margaret as she cries in her cell. Really revelling in the pain of others puts the icing on the evil cake, and makes it so, so much sweeter. Because Cora ripped out her heart, I could argue that she's evil the way a robot is evil. Plenty of bad robots out there. Terminator, Lore, Multivac (was more evil in the VIKI incarnation), replicants and duplicants aplenty, and I have my eye on that one on The Jetsons. But they're just acting on their programming. It's kind of the same with Cora. Except she programmed herself. Imperative: Attain power. Since she chose that, it's still evil, but her actions after the fact just weigh less because she didn't truly choose any of them. There was no chance for her to be redeemed. A good but angry person who decided to shut off their own free will, because that free will would choose love and happiness. (Still had the free will to choose to push the off switch, though.)

      Cora is just a lovely jumping off point about how much free will people actually have (mainly because of our desires). If you really find the off switch, free will could be infinite by its very negation, or at least, ability to be negated.

      I find it funny how few people are mentioning King George. Not that I think he deserves any high spot on the list. Whiney, sour, barren old bastard is more goth than villain. "Instead, [Charming] made my suffering worse." Every time he's on the screen I expect another sob-fest about how he can't have kids. At one point I seriously expected an episode or two where he grabs Henry, tries to remake him in his own image, and everyone else blames Regina. That would be a little dark for Once Upon a Time though.

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    • Spincha wrote:

      I find it funny how few people are mentioning King George. Not that I think he deserves any high spot on the list. Whiney, sour, barren old bastard is more goth than villain. "Instead, [Charming] made my suffering worse." Every time he's on the screen I expect another sob-fest about how he can't have kids. At one point I seriously expected an episode or two where he grabs Henry, tries to remake him in his own image, and everyone else blames Regina. That would be a little dark for Once Upon a Time though.

      *emo

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    • I think because we haven't seen George much on the show, people won't say him. We haven't seen him do as much evil things as the others, although I'm sure he has. He is my ultimate least favorite character on the show followed by Snow. He is so despicable.

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    • Spincha wrote:
      The thing with Peter Pan was that he never mentally became an adult. He did some of the most heinous actions in the series, was willing to go as far sacrificing his most loyal henchman, and that, based on utter lack of remorse, puts him possibly ahead of even Jafar and just below Midas. I just have a hard time faulting him for those actions. (I've known way too many people with kids just like that.) He was a child in an adult's body who traded his child for a child's body.

      It's a little unfair, but the most socially forward perspective on evil admits that children just can't be expected if they don't reach a certain developmental stage, and some people actually never go formal operational. If the body matters, then he became a child and that's that. If the body doesn't matter, he was never an adult at any time.



      Pan was not a child mentally. He was the smartest on the show, manipulating and playing mind games with everyone including Rumpel freaking stilskin (the master of manipulators). And most children are not sociopathic killers, you are excusing him wayy too much here.

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    • Tcweh wrote:
      Spincha wrote:
      The thing with Peter Pan was that he never mentally became an adult. He did some of the most heinous actions in the series, was willing to go as far sacrificing his most loyal henchman, and that, based on utter lack of remorse, puts him possibly ahead of even Jafar and just below Midas. I just have a hard time faulting him for those actions. (I've known way too many people with kids just like that.) He was a child in an adult's body who traded his child for a child's body.

      It's a little unfair, but the most socially forward perspective on evil admits that children just can't be expected if they don't reach a certain developmental stage, and some people actually never go formal operational. If the body matters, then he became a child and that's that. If the body doesn't matter, he was never an adult at any time.



      Pan was not a child mentally. He was the smartest on the show, manipulating and playing mind games with everyone including Rumpel freaking stilskin (the master of manipulators). And most children are not sociopathic killers, you are excusing him wayy too much here.

      It was also obvious that Pan was not a child because Rumple feared him greatly.

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    • He was an adult hiding in a child's body, not a man child. XD

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    • Ktorg117 wrote:
      It was also obvious that Pan was not a child because Rumple feared him greatly.


      I'd fear even a baby with those powers too! There's a whole Twilight Zone episode like that.

      I see Pan as an adult who never grew up. When he got the option to make his body match that, he took it. Highly intelligent and manipulative, like a lot of kids I know. All he really wanted was to just be a kid forever. He didn't care about the cost, and he didn't seem to even know his actions were wrong on any level. When he took the heart of his most loyal henchman, there was no remorse. There was no second-guessing. It was a child ripping open a bug because the child has a total disconnect in its head between the suffering of the bug and its own suffering.

      On the one hand, you can call that such a pure psychopath - not even the knowledge of right and wrong - that he can't be considered evil because he probably could never have understood the difference between right and wrong in the first place. On the other hand, it can be seen as the purest evil.

      Even Jafar had to be taught one from the other to choose evil.

      "But he did nothing!"

      "Exactly."

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      He was an adult hiding in a child's body, not a man child. XD


      well he hate being as a adult and he want as a kid again and peter pan is an manchild who WANT NOT BE A MAN

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    • Kby
      Avatar Alpha wrote:
      Agreed. Zelena had clearly suffered emotional abuse from her adopted father for having magic. Seeing Regina being taught it was a gift was clearly the start of a breaking point for her. Going off topic for a moment, is anyone besides me even more curious about her real dad now? She could do magic as a baby and apparently had no claim to a royal title so that leaves out Leopold I think and the way Rumple reacted, I doubt it's him. So who? Some very powerful wizard from another world? The dragon perhaps...?


      I thought Zelena’s father was the Casanova that Cora thought was royalty but ended up being the gardener.

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    • Oh Boohoo. I don't feel bad for Zelena at all. So her dad wasn't exactly "nice" to her, no body has happy childhoods on this show. I don't think trying to justify her actions because of her bad childhood are valid arguments. Same goes for Jafar.

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    • Greatbomber wrote:

      well he hate being as a adult and he want as a kid again and peter pan is an manchild who WANT NOT BE A MAN

      I don't think you know what a manchild is...

      Peter Pan is an adult in a child's body, not a child who never mentally became a man.

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    • I thought Zelena's biological father indirectly represented Prince John from Robin Hood, though there was no reference to him actually being an adaption of the Robin Hood story. Also he wasn't really royalty, but no less evil and cunnning like the Prince John from Robin Hood.

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    • Kby wrote:

      Avatar Alpha wrote:
      Agreed. Zelena had clearly suffered emotional abuse from her adopted father for having magic. Seeing Regina being taught it was a gift was clearly the start of a breaking point for her. Going off topic for a moment, is anyone besides me even more curious about her real dad now? She could do magic as a baby and apparently had no claim to a royal title so that leaves out Leopold I think and the way Rumple reacted, I doubt it's him. So who? Some very powerful wizard from another world? The dragon perhaps...?


      I thought Zelena’s father was the Casanova that Cora thought was royalty but ended up being the gardener.

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    • Avatar Alpha is talking about the couple that found Zelena in Oz, the man that raised her.

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    • In my opinion, the most evil villain on the show was Tamara

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    • Jafar would've ripped Tamara to shreds and I would've reveled in it. LOL

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    • So I think, as of how the characters are now, it would be Jafar, Pan, Cyrus' mom (she still taught Jafar to be evil and never showed remorse or anything), Zelena, Cruella, Rumpel

      But, unlike how most are saying Pan had no love, I think he does have a LITTLE I think. Pan, although he abandoned Rumpel, still did take the name Peter Pan. He still did trap him in a box and carry him around (that has to count for something). He did offer Rumpel a chance to be a family even though he already had Pandora's box (not fair, but still). And he did send Rumpel to the Spinners to take care of him rather than just completely abandoning him. I do think he did care for Rumpel, even if it was only just a little bit.

      Also, I think the Sultan did show maturity in the cell and can no longer be counted as a villain... he said something a long the lines of "I have matured since the time I tried to drown you, and now I'm waiting for you to mature and move past this phase of revenge"

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Jafar would've ripped Tamara to shreds and I would've reveled in it. LOL

      Yeah Jafar is easily the cruelist villain in the franchise. What he did to Will proves that.

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    • I think Zelena is the worst. She had her chance at a happy ending with the council but she didn't take it. Instead she decided to make hers and everyone else's life miserable. This whole pregnancy thing is pretty unredeemable in my opinion. 

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    • I still think Jafar and Jabberwocky are the worst. Tamara and Cruella are up there, though.

      Cruella would never have been redeemable due to being a psychopath rather than plain evil, so I think that makes her the worst. Jafar willingly dove into the darkness, first killing a friend, then trapping Amara and then killing his brother.

      Tamara and Jabberwocky still haven't gotten any backstory (and in Tamara's case, never will) so I think they're the wild cards here.

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    • I say it is Rumple. He was the Dark One after all.

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    • Joseph8 wrote:
      I say it is Rumple. He was the Dark One after all.

      Then shouldn't the Darkness be the most evil villain, then? It does seem to be sentient and is behind the Dark One's curse, after all.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:

      Joseph8 wrote:
      I say it is Rumple. He was the Dark One after all.

      Then shouldn't the Darkness be the most evil villain, then? It does seem to be sentient and is behind the Dark One's curse, after all.

      Rumple created terror for various people.

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    • Joseph8 wrote:

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:

      Joseph8 wrote:
      I say it is Rumple. He was the Dark One after all.
      Then shouldn't the Darkness be the most evil villain, then? It does seem to be sentient and is behind the Dark One's curse, after all.
      Rumple created terror for various people.

      While under the influence of the Darkness.

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    • Cruella was terrible, but Jafar, Pan, and Cora surpass her. Where Cruella was a psychopath, the others also had something messed up, but also knew exactly what they were doing and messed up their own families and hurt them for their own gain. Those three are the most evil in my opinion.

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    • The top villains

      1. The darkness that was possessing Rumple is the most evil thing I think...I mean it's darkness itself. What worse than that? It doesn't love, it doesn't care about anyone. It's just looking for someone to posses to make evil deeds.

      2. Jafar - Cruel till the very end. He transformed Amara into the staff (despite the fact they were in "love") then kills her to maintain his power. Kills the red queen, revives her and then kisses with her in front of Will (that was just wow 100+ villainess). Killed his father the same way the sultan tried to kill him, but first he makes him love him. Worst of all he doesn't feel remorse for any of this things. He betrayed the jabberwocky and killed countless people in the series (villagers, guards, the Grendel etc.)

      3. Evil queen - Regina may have redeemed herself, but she was very, very evil. She betrayed tinker bell, killed his own father to enact the curse, killed entire villages just because she was angry at Snow white, took the huntsman heart and force him to do her will, tried to convince Henry that fairytales weren't real, framed snow white, tried to kill Cora (her own mother), left hook to die with Maleficent zombie, ruined poor Greg's childhood by taking his father, betrayed Sidney glass like twice and manipulated him to kill the king, locked Bell in a tower, took ariel's voice, left the mad hatter in wonderland (despite the fact that he had a daughter), didn't help Hansel and Gretel, trapped Maleficent for 30 years....yeah the list pretty much goes on. She did a lot of wrong stuff, no other villain has a list as long as this one.

      4- Peter pan - It didn't seem like he did a lot of evil things, but...he did a few that were quite supreme. He kidnapped Henry, lied to him and convinced him of giving his heart to him (his own grandson). He abandoned Rumple and played mind games with him while he was in Neverland (fake bell, the puppet toy etc.), he killed Felix (his loyal companion) and we know that Pan loved Felix to some extent because to be able to cast the dark curse you must crush the heart of the thing you love most...so he must have loved him and he killed him with no remorse either. He swapped body's with Henry, he manipulated the Darlings and also Greg and Tamara (not to mention he killed them the moment they arrived at Neverland)

      5- Cora was evil too, but she didn't have a heart. So...without the real ability to love I don't think she was redeemable and she was not going to be able to make the best choices (although Will Scarlet didn't had a heart for sometime, but he chose to do good...so that may not be an excuse to be evil). But taking the heart part out I think Cora could be in the list of big bads and for obvious reasons, I'm not making a list for her.

      - I don't include Rumple in this list because he was cursed with the dark one's curse. He did awful things, but the darkness inside him has a lot to do with it. He was never going to be able to be "good" or a "hero" if he wasn't free from the darkness. Hey may be able to do good things from time to time, but in the end darkness was going to win. Now that he is free from it we will see his attitude, if he changes then good, but if he keeps going after power then that would make him one of the worst villains and it would enter this list for sure.

      -Cruella was just psychopath, so basically she didn't even have the ability to make a good judgment. I mean, she thought killing was fun.

      - The Snow Queen, Red Queen, Zelena, King George, Maleficent and others have done terrible things, but I don't think that they can make to this list yet. They were evil or wicked or twisted, but so far I don't think they can win an evil contest against the villains mentioned above. Maybe the Snow queen, but still...

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    • I still think pure psychopaths like Pan and Cruella don't belong on the list, or at least shouldn't have the top spots. They don't know any better, pure and simple. Forget what I said about Pan never mentally becoming an adult if you like; the lack of any remorse still indicates a lack of responsibility. People who don't know any better are no more evil than the wolf who kills for a meal or the cat who tortures a mouse to amuse itself.

      I do admit there's a point about Pan taking the name of his son's doll. Either it was an ego trip of there is a spark of humanity in Pan, making him fully responsible for his actions.

      And don't forget King Midas. He's the worst of the lot.

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    • Spincha wrote:
      I still think pure psychopaths like Pan and Cruella don't belong on the list, or at least shouldn't have the top spots. They don't know any better, pure and simple. Forget what I said about Pan never mentally becoming an adult if you like; the lack of any remorse still indicates a lack of responsibility. People who don't know any better are no more evil than the wolf who kills for a meal or the cat who tortures a mouse to amuse itself.

      I do admit there's a point about Pan taking the name of his son's doll. Either it was an ego trip of there is a spark of humanity in Pan, making him fully responsible for his actions.

      And don't forget King Midas. He's the worst of the lot.

      Pyschopaths know the difference between right and wrong. They're just hard-wired to do what's wrong because to paraphrase Cruella, "It's fun, darling!"

      And King Midas is hardly a villain. He tried to save his kingdom from a dragon and tried to find his daughter someone to love after he accidentally turned her fiancé to gold. Nothing about that screams villain unless you're talking about the mythical Midas, who yeah, was kind of a jerk.

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    • See my posts earlier in the discussion about King Midas in the Once Upon a Time universe. #84 and #88. He is more than what he appears and puts the rest of these villains to shame. He's a menace to every kingdom in the Enchanted Forest as well as a petty, scheming, loathesome wretch of a man who probably lives to torture his daughter. Post #88 explains how he must have cursed Frederick on purpose, and probably even arranged the attack himself.

      There's clear difference in someone like Regina who is always conflicted (and always pushed by Fate right back onto the evil path), someone like Jafar who clearly chose evil, and that last group of people who don't seem to know right from wrong to begin with. They're like, "Well why not?" because why not never occurs to them.

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    • Spincha wrote:
      See my posts earlier in the discussion about King Midas in the Once Upon a Time universe. #84 and #88. He is more than what he appears and puts the rest of these villains to shame. He's a menace to every kingdom in the Enchanted Forest as well as a petty, scheming, loathesome wretch of a man who probably lives to torture his daughter. Post #88 explains how he must have cursed Frederick on purpose, and probably even arranged the attack himself.

      There's clear difference in someone like Regina who is always conflicted (and always pushed by Fate right back onto the evil path), someone like Jafar who clearly chose evil, and that last group of people who don't seem to know right from wrong to begin with. They're like, "Well why not?" because why not never occurs to them.

      LOL Well, we're all entitled to our own opinions but Midas being that sadistic and evil is about as likely as the Blue Fairy ever being non-shady.

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    • Cora, Rumple and The Evil Queen. Yes all these characters are redeemable but only because they had time and someone there to show them the light. Hands down though these three has destroyed way more innocent lives then any other people named. Still love them though. Cora has ripped out a countless number of hearts and have killed a countless number of innocent people to get what she wants. Same with Rumple and Regina. Yes Pan was selfish and gave up his son but he is still not as evil as those three. Same with Sulton.

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    • KnocknickKnock wrote:
      Cora, Rumple and The Evil Queen. Yes all these characters are redeemable but only because they had time and someone there to show them the light. Hands down though these three has destroyed way more innocent lives then any other people named. Still love them though. Cora has ripped out a countless number of hearts and have killed a countless number of innocent people to get what she wants. Same with Rumple and Regina. Yes Pan was selfish and gave up his son but he is still not as evil as those three. Same with Sulton.

      I would definitely argue that Pan is far more evil than Rumple, Regina and Cora put together. One thing all the villains in this show have had in common: No one's physically harmed someone they loved (under normal conditions, so I won't count Regina murdering her father after Rumple's manipulations and her psychotic break).

      Rumple never harmed Bae, Regina never harmed Henry, Cora never harmed Regina (for the sake of harming her), Ingrid never harmed Emma, Maleficent, Ursula, Anastasia, etc.

      Jafar literally loved his father so much that his goal was to make his father love him. And then he magically drowned him, despite there now being a mutual love between father and son. Peter spent centuries messing with his own bloodline (Rumple, Bae and Henry), fully intending to kill each of them at different intervals. And like Jafar, he also killed someone he "loved". Felix.

      For me, that's why those two are the most evil of all.

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    • how  about cruella the only villan who seemed evil down to the core.

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    • Thomas762 wrote:
      how  about cruella the only villan who seemed evil down to the core.


      Cruella and Jafar are those I see as truly evil. Cruella was a born sociopath, while Jafar became one over a large portion of his life.

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    • Either the Sultan or Malcolm/Peter Pan.


      No one is "born" a psychopath.  Something happened to Cruella that made her one.  But we only got one flashback regarding her past.  The idea that someone is born a psychopath is just ridiculous.

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    • CTrent29 wrote:
      Either the Sultan or Malcolm/Peter Pan.


      No one is "born" a psychopath.  Something happened to Cruella that made her one.  But we only got one flashback regarding her past.  The idea that someone is born a psychopath is just ridiculous.

      You obviously don't know psychology. Cruella wasn't a psychopath. She was a SOCIOpath. A sociopath is someone who is born with a brain that never developed a sense of fear, guilt or empathy. For example... Someone who could kill and smile about it afterwards like Cruella did to her father. And mother.

      And yes, people are very much born as sociopaths. Psychopaths are entirely different things. Those are the people that absolutely snap. Regina in "The Cricket Game" was the definition of psychosis. Especially when she was screaming about killing Snow White.

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    • Regina, Cora and Rumple are my favorite characters but to sit up here and say they are less Evil then Pan is ridiculous. When I think of who is the most evil it comes down to who has killed the most innocents for stupid reasons and Regina, Cora and Rumple takes the cake in that category. Yes all these characters have good sides to them too but that doesn't change their actions. Pan wasn't all bad, yes he made mistakes but he did have a heart and cared for others. Pan simply can't compare to these 3 as villains.

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    • KnocknickKnock wrote:
      Regina, Cora and Rumple are my favorite characters but to sit up here and say they are less Evil then Pan is ridiculous. When I think of who is the most evil it comes down to who has killed the most innocents for stupid reasons and Regina, Cora and Rumple takes the cake in that category. Yes all these characters have good sides to them too but that doesn't change their actions. Pan wasn't all bad, yes he made mistakes but he did have a heart and cared for others. Pan simply can't compare to these 3 as villains.

      Who did Pan ever show affection for? Tell me and I'll concede that he is not the most evil villain. Either way Cruella beats Regina, Rumple and Cora since she actually killed because she loved it and enjoyed it. As opposed to the other three who just killed when it suited them.

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    • Cruella, hands-down. She was a complete and utter sociopath. She skinned puppies and ordered dogs to eat her poor mother alive.

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    • I don't know how we're measuring how evil someone is. Is it based on the damage that they've done, their intentions, their pasts, how they treated their family...?

      Either way I would hae to say Cora. She was never really a good person. She married a prince who she wasn't in love with and had an afair with the DO. She manipulated Rumpel into changing their deal and later broke his heart. She killed Snow's mother. Eva never reall never did anything that horrible to her. Cora stole Eva's fiance, lied to him, stole from him, and broke his heart too. All Eva did was tell him the truth. Cora tried to turn a young Snow Whhite evil. Here's the worst of it. She killed her own daughter's true love. Regina was kind enough to let her mother live and only banished her to another world. If it were me (an ordinary human being) I would have killed her. She claimed everything she did was for Regina, but she really only cared that Regina would have the life she wanted. She never cared about what Regina wanted. People say Regina is the worst villain, but she only turned evil because of Cora. Cora never feels bad about what she's done. Having her heart removed is no excuse. She did it to herself to prevent herself from feeling any emotions. Other characters have had their hearts ripped out and still managed to stay good. Cora destroyed many innocent lives for pure enjoyment. She incinerely apoligized to Regina and almost tricked her into marrying the Sheriff of Notington. She abandoned her first born without a thought and never told anyone about it. She spent her entire life lying to her daughter and husband. She terrorized two realms. She kidnapped her husband.She killed and impersonated Lancelot. She betrayed Hook. She framed her own daughter of murder and somehow managed to convince her that everyone else was the bad guy. She attempted to become the DO by murdering her former lover. She broke her deal with Snow and killed Johanna. She also continued to lie to her daughter, as she had other intentions in Storybrooke. Everything Cora does is for her own selfish reasons. She doesn't care about family. She only cares about power.

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    • I'm thinking that Cruella needs to be pretty high on the list. I think that when your happy ending is having the ability to kill people, you've pretty much made it as evil. I honestly think that when the Author took away her ability to kill, he took away a lot of her potential evilness. If Cruella were able to kill, I think that the Chernabog would have went after her instead of Maleficent.

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    • The red herring...

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    • Thomas762 wrote:
      The red herring...

      Most evil Vilain EVER!

      I bet the Red Herring will strike again!

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    • KnocknickKnock wrote:
      Regina, Cora and Rumple are my favorite characters but to sit up here and say they are less Evil then Pan is ridiculous. When I think of who is the most evil it comes down to who has killed the most innocents for stupid reasons and Regina, Cora and Rumple takes the cake in that category. Yes all these characters have good sides to them too but that doesn't change their actions. Pan wasn't all bad, yes he made mistakes but he did have a heart and cared for others. Pan simply can't compare to these 3 as villains.

      Context is neccessary though. Regina, Rumple and Cora may have a history of evil, but they have also showed they are capable of compassion. That's what sets them apart from people like Pan and Cruella, who just have no redeeming qualities at all. 

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    • Me.

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    • I'm confused how this thread is getting so much use. Evil is not something you can quantify. All the villains are evil for what they did regardless of scope, scale, or reason. Some may have killed more people, some may have stolen more things, some may have just been really mean, it's all evil, and it's all bad. Furthermore, after the revelation of The Darkness at the end of Season 4, I think it's pretty clear that if we tried to quantify evil (which like I said can't really be done, but just stay with me here) that The Darkness is the most evil entity, for the simple reason that it is the only thing that can darken anyone. A entity that can literally suck the light out of things, is about as evil as you can get.

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    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      I'm confused how this thread is getting so much use. Evil is not something you can quantify. All the villains are evil for what they did regardless of scope, scale, or reason. Some may have killed more people, some may have stolen more things, some may have just been really mean, it's all evil, and it's all bad. Furthermore, after the revelation of The Darkness at the end of Season 4, I think it's pretty clear that if we tried to quantify evil (which like I said can't really be done, but just stay with me here) that The Darkness is the most evil entity, for the simple reason that it is the only thing that can darken anyone. A entity that can literally suck the light out of things, is about as evil as you can get.

      The Darkness isn't necessarily evil. It does what darkness always does and snuffs out the light. It's core being and niche is to do that, so I don't think that makes it evil. Plus, the person can always regain their light/ purify their hearts through deeds.
      It does either one of two things:

      1) Sucks out the light and replace it with Darkness

      2) Sucks out the light and leaves it a blank slate

      I don't think it's the first one, but rather the second one. Example, if Belle's pure heart was drained of light, then her heart would be a blank slate. Probably would have some comatose side effects, but it doesn't seem to be that evil. Dangerous, but not evil.

      It's like saying the Jabberwock (y) was evil because she fed on fear. Not like she could help it.

      So, the Darkness gets a pass from me.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      I'm confused how this thread is getting so much use. Evil is not something you can quantify. All the villains are evil for what they did regardless of scope, scale, or reason. Some may have killed more people, some may have stolen more things, some may have just been really mean, it's all evil, and it's all bad. Furthermore, after the revelation of The Darkness at the end of Season 4, I think it's pretty clear that if we tried to quantify evil (which like I said can't really be done, but just stay with me here) that The Darkness is the most evil entity, for the simple reason that it is the only thing that can darken anyone. A entity that can literally suck the light out of things, is about as evil as you can get.
      The Darkness isn't necessarily evil. It does what darkness always does and snuffs out the light. It's core being and niche is to do that, so I don't think that makes it evil. Plus, the person can always regain their light/ purify their hearts through deeds.
      It does either one of two things:

      1) Sucks out the light and replace it with Darkness

      2) Sucks out the light and leaves it a blank slate

      I don't think it's the first one, but rather the second one. Example, if Belle's pure heart was drained of light, then her heart would be a blank slate. Probably would have some comatose side effects, but it doesn't seem to be that evil. Dangerous, but not evil.

      It's like saying the Jabberwock (y) was evil because she fed on fear. Not like she could help it.

      So, the Darkness gets a pass from me.

      Well, this goes into how we define evil. I'm guessing you define it as doing the wrong thing when you know it's wrong. I'm defining it as a more abstract thing, that poisons "good".

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • CoolDudeAl wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      CoolDudeAl wrote:
      I'm confused how this thread is getting so much use. Evil is not something you can quantify. All the villains are evil for what they did regardless of scope, scale, or reason. Some may have killed more people, some may have stolen more things, some may have just been really mean, it's all evil, and it's all bad. Furthermore, after the revelation of The Darkness at the end of Season 4, I think it's pretty clear that if we tried to quantify evil (which like I said can't really be done, but just stay with me here) that The Darkness is the most evil entity, for the simple reason that it is the only thing that can darken anyone. A entity that can literally suck the light out of things, is about as evil as you can get.
      The Darkness isn't necessarily evil. It does what darkness always does and snuffs out the light. It's core being and niche is to do that, so I don't think that makes it evil. Plus, the person can always regain their light/ purify their hearts through deeds.
      It does either one of two things:

      1) Sucks out the light and replace it with Darkness

      2) Sucks out the light and leaves it a blank slate

      I don't think it's the first one, but rather the second one. Example, if Belle's pure heart was drained of light, then her heart would be a blank slate. Probably would have some comatose side effects, but it doesn't seem to be that evil. Dangerous, but not evil.

      It's like saying the Jabberwock (y) was evil because she fed on fear. Not like she could help it.

      So, the Darkness gets a pass from me.

      Well, this goes into how we define evil. I'm guessing you define it as doing the wrong thing when you know it's wrong. I'm defining it as a more abstract thing, that poisons "good".

      As far as we know, the Darkness is a force like Nature, Magic, and Physics. Neither of them are good or evil, but can be used as such.

      Nature drops a tornado on innocent people and their crops. Is Nature evil? No, not at all.

      Even things like Death aren't evil. Death is usually portrayed as evil in media, but it's just a part of life.

      Darkness may just be a process or balance item that contributes to that. The Darkness is just the visible aspect of it. At least that's how I'll view it until we get more on it.

      As a quote from Maleficent in another form of media, "As long as there is light, there will be darkness!"

      Gosh, this reminds me of my ethics class.....

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    • I hate Peter Pan a lot, but even I don't think he's that evil. Cora is definitely more evil than him. At least he had the common decency to make sure his kid was taken care of before he abandoned him. XD, Cora pretty much just left baby Zelena out in the open. She was almost killed by a tornado for god's sake. And she never loved Regina, she basically just saw her as a tool to gain full control of her kingdom. She chose power over compassion every time--she was merciless.

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    • DavidTennantismyAngel
      DavidTennantismyAngel removed this reply because:
      Pointless.
      03:13, September 16, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • I don't think the Darkness is evil at all. It's necessary. Without Darkness, there can be no Light. If there's nothing to compare it to, then Light is just... everything. So how would people know what is what if there's no Darkness?

      IDK how to describe it but it's going into some metaphysical topics that even I can't handle and I'm the one who brought them up.

      I definitely think it's dangerous, which is why it was tethered to the Dark Ones for eons. But it's not inherently evil. Unless it's shown to be a sentient being with full knowledge of its actions and no remorse, then it would be evil.

      Using that definition, all of our villains are evil (obviously), but of those, most have shown remorse, compassion or redemption at one point or another (Rumple, Hook, Cora, Regina, Ingrid, Anastasia, Ursula, Maleficent, Sultan). So while those villains were evil, they're not the most evil because they show a human side to them that the others (King George, Peter Pan, Zelena, Jafar, Jabberwocky, Cruella, Isaac) just simply don't.

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    • Cora showed remorse like once in her life, lol. When she broke up with Rumple and showed him that she ripped out her heart. Although, maybe even that wasn't remorse, 'cause, y'know, no heart=no emotions.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      I don't think the Darkness is evil at all. It's necessary. Without Darkness, there can be no Light. If there's nothing to compare it to, then Light is just... everything. So how would people know what is what if there's no Darkness?

      IDK how to describe it but it's going into some metaphysical topics that even I can't handle and I'm the one who brought them up.

      I definitely think it's dangerous, which is why it was tethered to the Dark Ones for eons. But it's not inherently evil. Unless it's shown to be a sentient being with full knowledge of its actions and no remorse, then it would be evil.

      Using that definition, all of our villains are evil (obviously), but of those, most have shown remorse, compassion or redemption at one point or another (Rumple, Hook, Cora, Regina, Ingrid, Anastasia, Ursula, Maleficent, Sultan). So while those villains were evil, they're not the most evil because they show a human side to them that the others (King George, Peter Pan, Zelena, Jafar, Jabberwocky, Cruella, Isaac) just simply don't.

      I agree with you there. However, King George did show a human side and he was to me a reasonable villain. He focused on the well-being of his people with "the ends justifying the means". Some people see that he interfered with Twu Luv, but he wanted the marriage to go through to help the failing economy of his kingdom. That's call being a leader, which is something the Charmings barely know (or at least show). Now, he did go over the justified line when he started riots and mobs, but he was pretty much helping the many over the suffering of a few (Charming and Snow).

      Malcolm is one I didn't find that bad, because there's some disconnect between him and Peter Pan. Malcolm even when letting go of Rumple looked distraught, but in the present day, he had no care in the world. There wasn't a real transformation. For all I know, Peter hit his head on Skull Rock while flying and lost his empathy, lol.

      Zelena did show her human side, whiny as it is. We'll likely see more of the humanity in her. She even seems to be on the verge of constant remorse or reveling in evilness.

      Can't really advocate for the rest though, lol.

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    • DavidTennantismyAngel wrote:
      Cora showed remorse like once in her life, lol. When she broke up with Rumple and showed him that she ripped out her heart. Although, maybe even that wasn't remorse, 'cause, y'know, no heart=no emotions.

      Psst, they said thaat you do feel with no heart, just not as deeply.

      So, she felt it, just like anything else, otherwise she would have no magic. Magic = powered by emotions via Once

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      I don't think the Darkness is evil at all. It's necessary. Without Darkness, there can be no Light. If there's nothing to compare it to, then Light is just... everything. So how would people know what is what if there's no Darkness?

      IDK how to describe it but it's going into some metaphysical topics that even I can't handle and I'm the one who brought them up.

      I definitely think it's dangerous, which is why it was tethered to the Dark Ones for eons. But it's not inherently evil. Unless it's shown to be a sentient being with full knowledge of its actions and no remorse, then it would be evil.

      Using that definition, all of our villains are evil (obviously), but of those, most have shown remorse, compassion or redemption at one point or another (Rumple, Hook, Cora, Regina, Ingrid, Anastasia, Ursula, Maleficent, Sultan). So while those villains were evil, they're not the most evil because they show a human side to them that the others (King George, Peter Pan, Zelena, Jafar, Jabberwocky, Cruella, Isaac) just simply don't.

      I agree with you there. However, King George did show a human side and he was to me a reasonable villain. He focused on the well-being of his people with "the ends justifying the means". Some people see that he interfered with Twu Luv, but he wanted the marriage to go through to help the failing economy of his kingdom. That's call being a leader, which is something the Charmings barely know (or at least show). Now, he did go over the justified line when he started riots and mobs, but he was pretty much helping the many over the suffering of a few (Charming and Snow).

      Malcolm is one I didn't find that bad, because there's some disconnect between him and Peter Pan. Malcolm even when letting go of Rumple looked distraught, but in the present day, he had no care in the world. There wasn't a real transformation. For all I know, Peter hit his head on Skull Rock while flying and lost his empathy, lol.

      Zelena did show her human side, whiny as it is. We'll likely see more of the humanity in her. She even seems to be on the verge of constant remorse or reveling in evilness.

      Can't really advocate for the rest though, lol.

      George wasn't really a bad guy when we first met him, but it's clear he was spoiled rotten. I mean look at what James did in "Tiny" (Btw, we need more of James. Charming is so boring, yet James was... YUMMY.) And that was all ok with George.

      And a man willing to make a woman barren after having suffered his wife's infertility is definitely evil to me. Especially if he saws a man in half, in cold blood, just to stage a hostile takeover of a town. Which by the way... He's the DA, and Charming wasn't legally the Sheriff. He can't hurl him in jail for impersonating a police officer?

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      I don't think the Darkness is evil at all. It's necessary. Without Darkness, there can be no Light. If there's nothing to compare it to, then Light is just... everything. So how would people know what is what if there's no Darkness?

      IDK how to describe it but it's going into some metaphysical topics that even I can't handle and I'm the one who brought them up.

      I definitely think it's dangerous, which is why it was tethered to the Dark Ones for eons. But it's not inherently evil. Unless it's shown to be a sentient being with full knowledge of its actions and no remorse, then it would be evil.

      Using that definition, all of our villains are evil (obviously), but of those, most have shown remorse, compassion or redemption at one point or another (Rumple, Hook, Cora, Regina, Ingrid, Anastasia, Ursula, Maleficent, Sultan). So while those villains were evil, they're not the most evil because they show a human side to them that the others (King George, Peter Pan, Zelena, Jafar, Jabberwocky, Cruella, Isaac) just simply don't.

      I agree with you there. However, King George did show a human side and he was to me a reasonable villain. He focused on the well-being of his people with "the ends justifying the means". Some people see that he interfered with Twu Luv, but he wanted the marriage to go through to help the failing economy of his kingdom. That's call being a leader, which is something the Charmings barely know (or at least show). Now, he did go over the justified line when he started riots and mobs, but he was pretty much helping the many over the suffering of a few (Charming and Snow).

      Malcolm is one I didn't find that bad, because there's some disconnect between him and Peter Pan. Malcolm even when letting go of Rumple looked distraught, but in the present day, he had no care in the world. There wasn't a real transformation. For all I know, Peter hit his head on Skull Rock while flying and lost his empathy, lol.

      Zelena did show her human side, whiny as it is. We'll likely see more of the humanity in her. She even seems to be on the verge of constant remorse or reveling in evilness.

      Can't really advocate for the rest though, lol.

      George wasn't really a bad guy when we first met him, but it's clear he was spoiled rotten. I mean look at what James did in "Tiny" (Btw, we need more of James. Charming is so boring, yet James was... YUMMY.) And that was all ok with George.

      And a man willing to make a woman barren after having suffered his wife's infertility is definitely evil to me. Especially if he saws a man in half, in cold blood, just to stage a hostile takeover of a town. Which by the way... He's the DA, and Charming wasn't legally the Sheriff. He can't hurl him in jail for impersonating a police officer?

      Yeah, his actions afterward were despicable. I take it that he was more desperate and miserable than evil. Sort of.

      Chances are he's dead. Locking someone in the mines for weeks.....either someone fed him or David has some hidden evil secrets.

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      Yeah, his actions afterward were despicable. I take it that he was more desperate and miserable than evil. Sort of.

      Chances are he's dead. Locking someone in the mines for weeks.....either someone fed him or David has some hidden evil secrets.

      Nah, if George was dead, it was suicide. Charming literally had the chance to kill him twice (when he was defeated in the Enchanted Forest and when on the beach in Child Of The Moon) and he took none of these chances, probably due to the fact that George wanted death to reunite with James and the Queen.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:

      Yeah, his actions afterward were despicable. I take it that he was more desperate and miserable than evil. Sort of.

      Chances are he's dead. Locking someone in the mines for weeks.....either someone fed him or David has some hidden evil secrets.

      Nah, if George was dead, it was suicide. Charming literally had the chance to kill him twice (when he was defeated in the Enchanted Forest and when on the beach in Child Of The Moon) and he took none of these chances, probably due to the fact that George wanted death to reunite with James and the Queen.

      Totally wonder if the rest of the Government officials were royalty too?......

      But I do totally agree that villains that have shown remorse or some sympathtic background tend to be seen as less evil.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:

      Yeah, his actions afterward were despicable. I take it that he was more desperate and miserable than evil. Sort of.

      Chances are he's dead. Locking someone in the mines for weeks.....either someone fed him or David has some hidden evil secrets.

      Nah, if George was dead, it was suicide. Charming literally had the chance to kill him twice (when he was defeated in the Enchanted Forest and when on the beach in Child Of The Moon) and he took none of these chances, probably due to the fact that George wanted death to reunite with James and the Queen.
      Totally wonder if the rest of the Government officials were royalty too?......

      But I do totally agree that villains that have shown remorse or some sympathtic background tend to be seen as less evil.

      We haven't really met any. But so far we've had royals be a mechanic (Thomas), a fisherman (Eric), a florist (Maurice), an ice cream lady (Ingrid), a District Attorney (George), a Mayor (Regina), a schoolteacher (Snow) and a broken marriage (David and Abigail). And we've never seen any sign of Midas in Storybrooke, but I doubt he's much better off if he's alive (his presence in the past in the season 3 finale, but not the present gives me pause).

      Seems like Regina just wanted everyone to suffer. Including the royals.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:

      Yeah, his actions afterward were despicable. I take it that he was more desperate and miserable than evil. Sort of.

      Chances are he's dead. Locking someone in the mines for weeks.....either someone fed him or David has some hidden evil secrets.

      Nah, if George was dead, it was suicide. Charming literally had the chance to kill him twice (when he was defeated in the Enchanted Forest and when on the beach in Child Of The Moon) and he took none of these chances, probably due to the fact that George wanted death to reunite with James and the Queen.
      Totally wonder if the rest of the Government officials were royalty too?......

      But I do totally agree that villains that have shown remorse or some sympathtic background tend to be seen as less evil.

      We haven't really met any. But so far we've had royals be a mechanic (Thomas), a fisherman (Eric), a florist (Maurice), an ice cream lady (Ingrid), a District Attorney (George), a Mayor (Regina), a schoolteacher (Snow) and a broken marriage (David and Abigail). And we've never seen any sign of Midas in Storybrooke, but I doubt he's much better off if he's alive (his presence in the past in the season 3 finale, but not the present gives me pause).

      Seems like Regina just wanted everyone to suffer. Including the royals.

      Well, Thomas' father seemed well off. Eric and Thomas were princes. Maurice was a noble. Ingrid was disinherited(?) and chose the job. But that's probably nitpicking. I was catering more to the rulers, lol. 

      But yeah, Regina wanted to have everyone suffer which in turn actually made her suffer.  Totally evil of herself to even make herself suffer, too. XD

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    • No, I take it back. Cruella is definitely not the worst. Yes, she's a sociopath who spent a lifetime trying to restore her ability to kill people, she skinned puppies to make fur coats and she ordered dogs to eat her mother alive, but these are just a few horrible things. Her poor mom was actually the only person she had the chance to murder. I think the more people you murder, the worse you are. Now, Regina would just murder people over every single little nuisance back in the old days. She literally murdered a guy for having a wedding on her property. The question is--who has killed more people, her or Cora? Whoever has, I think, is the most evil. They're like the top 2 mass-murderers in this show, lol.

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    • Meh, we actually haven't seen Cora kill that many people. I mean, she had this huge army of heart-controlled zombies and we know she was very power-hungry and ambitious. But maybe the goal was to make her daughter worse than her. We have seen Regina do horrible things countless times. I'm willing to bet that at some point, she had stolen more hearts than Cora, killed more people than Cora, and just generally did more horrible things than Cora. At some point, she was worse than Cora. Plus, she raped the Huntsman, which is pretty bad, and I don't think that's a line that Cora would ever cross.

      Yeah, I think Regina's the worst. The fact is that I could sit here all day describing how horrible she was and, to some extent, still is. XD

      Anyways, why is King George on the list? All he did was try to kill Charming and make Snow barren. He's not a mass-murderer or anything. He's actually a pretty good king, lol.

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    • DavidTennantismyAngel wrote:
      Meh, we actually haven't seen Cora kill that many people. I mean, she had this huge army of heart-controlled zombies and we know she was very power-hungry and ambitious. But maybe the goal was to make her daughter worse than her. We have seen Regina do horrible things countless times. I'm willing to bet that at some point, she had stolen more hearts than Cora, killed more people than Cora, and just generally did more horrible things than Cora. At some point, she was worse than Cora. Plus, she raped the Huntsman, which is pretty bad, and I don't think that's a line that Cora would ever cross.

      Yeah, I think Regina's the worst. The fact is that I could sit here all day describing how horrible she was and, to some extent, still is. XD

      Anyways, why is King George on the list? All he did was try to kill Charming and make Snow barren. He's not a mass-murderer or anything. He's actually a pretty good king, lol.

      He slaughtered an entire species for gold, when he was literally going to have it handed to him regardless.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      DavidTennantismyAngel wrote:
      Meh, we actually haven't seen Cora kill that many people. I mean, she had this huge army of heart-controlled zombies and we know she was very power-hungry and ambitious. But maybe the goal was to make her daughter worse than her. We have seen Regina do horrible things countless times. I'm willing to bet that at some point, she had stolen more hearts than Cora, killed more people than Cora, and just generally did more horrible things than Cora. At some point, she was worse than Cora. Plus, she raped the Huntsman, which is pretty bad, and I don't think that's a line that Cora would ever cross.

      Yeah, I think Regina's the worst. The fact is that I could sit here all day describing how horrible she was and, to some extent, still is. XD

      Anyways, why is King George on the list? All he did was try to kill Charming and make Snow barren. He's not a mass-murderer or anything. He's actually a pretty good king, lol.

      He slaughtered an entire species for gold, when he was literally going to have it handed to him regardless.

      Well, that might have been more of James and Jack's idea. Plus, he's looking out for his kingdom's stability. He did say they were nearly bankrupt. If his kingdom went bankrupt and the army disbanded then the neighbors would declare war and rip the kingdom apart. So, it's either war against giants noone knows or cares about or get ripped to shreds in a multifront war with the neighboring kingdoms.

      Now the king of Hook's day and genocide......that's a little different.

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    • Yeah, but James was sexy. Sexy, evil guys can get away with anything for me. ;)

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    • I haven't seen any OUAT in Wonderland, so I'm just going to say Malcolm was the worst. He had no real reason for his actions. He just resented having a son to take care of. He abandoned him to go live on an island as a 13 (?) year old boy. With his heart still in place, I believe. No backstory to sympathize with, just pure selfishness. 

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    • Why have only me and like one other person suggested Regina? XD, she has done countless horrible things. Yes, she shows remorse, but that just goes to show that she's not a psychopath. It doesn't really mean anything in the grand scheme of things. I do not think a murderer of innocent people is any better just 'cause they regret the things they do. In fact, if you're not a psychopath and have a sound mind, you're even worse in my eyes 'cause you're fully conscious of how horrible your actions are, and yet you do them anyway.

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    • I was trying to take into account motivation, and other factors. Regina didn't have a heart when she slaughtered all those people, but as far as I know, Malcolm did. Regina was motivated by a consuming grief which led to her quest for revenge. Malcolm just resented the fact that he had a child. Cora and Regina both had to rip their own hearts out before they were able to go through with their evil plans. Not Malcolm, though. To have a heart and still act heartless is pretty bad.

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    • Regina didn't rip out her heart, though.

      I actually think that Regina and Cora are basically the same. The evil actions that Regina began to do just mirrored hers. The vast collection of hearts, the abusive treatment of children, the killing of people's true loves, the wanting to make everyone miserable, etc. But each of them are worse than the other in their own ways. Regina was willing to rape someone, but Cora never would, and Cora was willing to leave a child to die, whereas Regina never would. This complicates things. So I really can't decide who's worse, lol.

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    • Um, Regina has always had a heart when torturing and murdering the peasants.

      Regina is a combination of her parents with little of herself showing through.

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    • Ok. But what was that one thing Snow said about Regina not needing a heart because she loves with her whole soul? And wasn't she keeping it in the vault at some point? I know my knowledge of what happens on this show can be shaky, but what was that all about? I guess whatever it was, it must have been after the first curse.

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    • TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:
      Ok. But what was that one thing Snow said about Regina not needing a heart because she loves with her whole soul? And wasn't she keeping it in the vault at some point? I know my knowledge of what happens on this show can be shaky, but what was that all about? I guess whatever it was, it must have been after the first curse.


      SHe took it out when Zelena came to town and was threatening them, then Zelena had it when Regina did the TL kiss.

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    • DavidTennantismyAngel wrote:
      Meh, we actually haven't seen Cora kill that many people. I mean, she had this huge army of heart-controlled zombies and we know she was very power-hungry and ambitious. But maybe the goal was to make her daughter worse than her. We have seen Regina do horrible things countless times. I'm willing to bet that at some point, she had stolen more hearts than Cora, killed more people than Cora, and just generally did more horrible things than Cora. At some point, she was worse than Cora. Plus, she raped the Huntsman, which is pretty bad, and I don't think that's a line that Cora would ever cross.

      Yeah, I think Regina's the worst. The fact is that I could sit here all day describing how horrible she was and, to some extent, still is. XD

      Anyways, why is King George on the list? All he did was try to kill Charming and make Snow barren. He's not a mass-murderer or anything. He's actually a pretty good king, lol.


      This post reminds me of the last episode they were in together, where Cora saves that filler chracter from being tortured in Regina's chamber xD


      Regina may have surpassed her mother in the sadistic streak.

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    • DavidTennantismyAngel wrote:
      Why have only me and like one other person suggested Regina? XD, she has done countless horrible things. Yes, she shows remorse, but that just goes to show that she's not a psychopath. It doesn't really mean anything in the grand scheme of things. I do not think a murderer of innocent people is any better just 'cause they regret the things they do. In fact, if you're not a psychopath and have a sound mind, you're even worse in my eyes 'cause you're fully conscious of how horrible your actions are, and yet you do them anyway.

      No one's denying Regina is bad. She's just not the worst.

      Jafar, Pan, Cruella and Rumple are tied for that one. ;)

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    • Ok, thanks. I don't really rewatch episodes enough to remember everything very well. : P

      Well, I guess I consider him to be more evil than Regina because he doesn't have a very good reason to be evil, and he hated his own son. Regina is pretty bad, but at least she has a heart for children (except Snow, of course). 

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    • Idk, Jafar, Pan, and Cruella have only done a few bad things. I guess you could make a case for Rumple, though. However, I'm sure Regina has killed more people than him and ruined more lives. Rumple is mostly famous for his penchant for horrendous torture.

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    • DavidTennantismyAngel wrote:
      Idk, Jafar, Pan, and Cruella have only done a few bad things. I guess you could make a case for Rumple, though. However, I'm sure Regina has killed more people than him and ruined more lives. Rumple is mostly famous for his penchant for horrendous torture.

      Pan kidnapped multiple children over centuries and at different points in time, tried to kill his son, grandson and great-grandson just so he could keep his youth (sounds like the original version of Regina in my opinion).

      Jafar killed his father, killed his brother, turned on his master, raised an army who were all inevitably killed (though they were dead to begin with), and let's not forget he literally tried to be God.

      And Cruella's only true joy in life was killing others. I mean... How is Regina worse than someone who wanted to kill simply because they enjoyed it? (By the way, if Cruella couldn't kill, then how did she always have different furs? They should've introduced Jasper and Horace, 'cause she doesn't seem the type to get her hands dirty.)

      And Rumple's crimes are far too many to count. But just for starters... He trained Cora, Zelena AND Regina. Made Zelena and Regina into the monsters they were and was the reason Cora decided to become heartless. He is indirectly responsible for everything they went on to do. Especially because he'd manipulated everything to make it so.

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    • You actually have a really good point about Rumple. He is to blame for almost every bad thing that ever happened in OUAT. XD, it's no wonder everyone hates him.

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    • DavidTennantismyAngel wrote:
      You actually have a really good point about Rumple. He is to blame for almost every bad thing that ever happened in OUAT. XD, it's no wonder everyone hates him.

      He's indirectly responsible which means the blame shifts to those directly. The town would hate Regina more than Rumple, because she was an evil tyrant and they don't know of his involvement in her life.

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    • DavidTennantismyAngel wrote:
      You actually have a really good point about Rumple. He is to blame for almost every bad thing that ever happened in OUAT. XD, it's no wonder everyone hates him.

      And pretty much every major villain can claim a connection to him:

      Regina - Well... That one's fairly obvious.

      George - Brought Charming into his life.

      Hook - Killed Milah and took his hand.

      Cora - Taught her magic, which would inevitably bite him in the... butt.

      Greg & Tamara - Hired by his father and using his son as a pawn.

      Peter Pan - His dad, who could somehow kill Rumple if Rumple tried to kill him (that was never really explained... At all.)

      Zelena - He abandoned her, which made her crazier than she already was.

      Ingrid - Stole the ribbons she and her sisters wore, which inevitably led to Helga's death and Ingrid's inprisonment.

      Maleficent, Ursula and Cruella - Tricked them into getting trapped with Chernabog.

      Isaac - His ally.

      And now Emma - His successor as the Dark One.

      The only villains whose soup he hasn't put his hands into are Jafar (though I wouldn't put it past Rumple to know Amara, who is also immortal), Anastasia (who is technically his grandstudent through Cora) and Jabberwocky.

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    • I still think "Kill counts" is too simple to use as a conclusion because you are still leaving out context of all the characters and collectivising them. For example, it's virtually impossible for Pan to kill as many people as the others, because he resided on a small island with barely any population. But once he was in Storybrooke he planned on killing all the protagonists and taking control over the whole town, his true evil was showing then. Also Cruella's context must be taken into account on the fact she wasn't able to kill. 

      I think judging it on psychology and redeemable qualities is more fair, and in that department, Pan and Cruella win it easily. 

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    • But everyone has the "potential" to kill hundreds of people. I think it's best to judge people by their actions, not what they could have done.

      You know what, my decision is final. Regina is the worst villain in the franchise. She has done countless horrible things, and I don't give a damn if she felt remorse, 'cause it's not like she actually cares in the long run. She said so herself in Neverland that she didn't regret anything she did 'cause it all led to her adopting Henry.

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    • I honestly couldn't decide who takes the top spot for most evil. I honestly think that Pan, Cora and Cruella should be pretty close to the top though. Pan and Cruella are basically textbook sociopaths. The fact that the Author took away Cruella's ability to kill anyone says something, even when he was explaining it to David and Mary Margaret, he said he was just trying to protect the realms from Cruella. As for Pan, the fact that he was willing to sacrifice his own great grandchild so he could stay young forever says it all. With Cora, all that ever mattered to her was climbing up the social latter, she even abandoned her first born to do so. Everything she did was for power. I think I wanna see what happens in Season 5 because they're making it seem like Emma could get really dark.

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    • Rewatching season 3, I will say that despite my disconnect of Pan to Malcolm, Pan was awfully nice earlier on.

      After letting go Rumple, he seemed rmeorseful. He even helps Killain and Liam on their quest even though he really didn't want to.

      He's awfully nice in the first half of 3a. He's a bit creepy, but still nice. Then the later half he just becomes cackling evil villain that wants to take over the world....ahem Storybrooke.

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    • Rewatching season 3, I will say that despite my disconnect of Pan to Malcolm, Pan was awfully nice earlier on.

      After letting go Rumple, he seemed rmeorseful. He even helps Killain and Liam on their quest even though he really didn't want to.

      He's awfully nice in the first half of 3a. He's a bit creepy, but still nice. Then the later half he just becomes cackling evil villain that wants to take over the world....ahem Storybrooke.

      All that time Pan was being "nice" and "remorseful", he was planning to take the heart of his great-grandson, Henry, in order to remain immortal.  The interesting thing is that Pan didn't feel any anger or resentment toward Henry.  The latter had something that he wanted.

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    • CTrent29 wrote:

      Rewatching season 3, I will say that despite my disconnect of Pan to Malcolm, Pan was awfully nice earlier on.

      After letting go Rumple, he seemed rmeorseful. He even helps Killain and Liam on their quest even though he really didn't want to.

      He's awfully nice in the first half of 3a. He's a bit creepy, but still nice. Then the later half he just becomes cackling evil villain that wants to take over the world....ahem Storybrooke.

      All that time Pan was being "nice" and "remorseful", he was planning to take the heart of his great-grandson, Henry, in order to remain immortal.  The interesting thing is that Pan didn't feel any anger or resentment toward Henry.  The latter had something that he wanted.

      I was mentioning Killian and Liam's trip to Neverland, not his farce with Henry.

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    • Yeah Pan's descent into pure evil was definetly a slow progress that occured over hundreds of years, which can be noted in the example provided by Eskaver above. I guess the more lost boys he stole, and the more he lusted for immortality, the more vile he became. I suppose you could make a case of him being just a bit less evil than Cruella for that reason (Who seemed evil from the start.)

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      Thomas762 wrote:
      how  about cruella the only villan who seemed evil down to the core.


      Cruella and Jafar are those I see as truly evil. Cruella was a born sociopath, while Jafar became one over a large portion of his life.

      Cruella was a psychopath, not a sociopath. And Pan was one, too. So I would say they are the only ones who are truly evil.

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    • I think Jafar. I mean he is very smart, sophistocated, purely evil. And we all know he is still alive trapped in a lamp or bottle.

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    • MBrody wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:

      Thomas762 wrote:
      how  about cruella the only villan who seemed evil down to the core.

      Cruella and Jafar are those I see as truly evil. Cruella was a born sociopath, while Jafar became one over a large portion of his life.

      Cruella was a psychopath, not a sociopath. And Pan was one, too. So I would say they are the only ones who are truly evil.

      Sociopath is someone with no empathy or compassion. But high-functioning and can act like they do have emotions.

      Both villains fit sociopath. Psychopath is someone like... Zelena. Completely unhinged.

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    • As far as main villains, Cruella most definitely. She's the only villain with no excuse. Not one reason does she have to do anything of the heinous acts she does. She murdered her father, mother, and then proceeded to murder the dogs and turn them into fur coats.

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    • DavidTennantismyAngel
      DavidTennantismyAngel removed this reply because:
      fhregesg
      05:45, October 16, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • Tysonjackson wrote: As far as main villains, Cruella most definitely. She's the only villain with no excuse. Not one reason does she have to do anything of the heinous acts she does. She murdered her father, mother, and then proceeded to murder the dogs and turn them into fur coats.

      I would say Regina or Rumple are still the most evil people - yes, Cruella was a villain because she wanted to, but the acts she committed in comparison to Rumple (who manipulated, killed and ruined countless lives) and Regina (who murdered countless people). Cruella just poisoned a few people and killed her mommy who stopped her from killing

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    • CoyoteDork wrote:

      Tysonjackson wrote: As far as main villains, Cruella most definitely. She's the only villain with no excuse. Not one reason does she have to do anything of the heinous acts she does. She murdered her father, mother, and then proceeded to murder the dogs and turn them into fur coats.

      I would say Regina or Rumple are still the most evil people - yes, Cruella was a villain because she wanted to, but the acts she committed in comparison to Rumple (who manipulated, killed and ruined countless lives) and Regina (who murdered countless people). Cruella just poisoned a few people and killed her mommy who stopped her from killing

      Well that is true, because as much as I love those two, looking back they were pretty awful and we just kinda forgave them for it. Although, I honestly think Regina was worse than Rumple. At least he was being corrupted by the darkness.

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    • I honestly think the "Darkness made me do that" plot point was a very cheap writing choice to try and win the audience's favour back to Rumple after the S4 mess. A character who deliberately manipulated the hell out of the whole Enchanted Forest because he wanted to try and get a second chance at being a decent father was a much more compelling than "sorry, I was possessed the whole time".

      Hell, they tried to give a last-minute "redemption" to re-hearted Cora with her last words, but they didn't take away that ripping her heart off simply blocked emotional interferences to her scheaming but she still had all the free will in the world in her decision-making. She was still a woman who made poor life choices out of ambition.

      Now, if Rumple turns out to have been a blank canvas the whole time with the Darkness commending his every move, well… that's utterly destroying a complex character we've been loving to hate for four seasons.

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    • MrAnonymous wrote:
      I personally think it's a tie between Peter Pan and the Sultan actually no at least the Sultan tried to accept Jafar albeit he did a miserable job of it Pan was grown man that litterally ran off to dream land to be a child. Not to mention so far not even the Jabberwocky is shown to be willing to kill her own family. I mean Cora didn't even go through with killing Regina and one must admit there is something very very disturbing about an adult that wants to stay a child forever and is willing to kill his son, grand son and great grand son to stay that way.

      I'd have to say Rumple. Even though he has some redeeming moments, he's the mastermind behind the first curse, which, in turn, allowed others to duplicate it for their own curse, which means almost everything that's gone wrong in the show has ties back to him. 

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    • I think there is a difference between a person that did a terrible thing and a terrible person.

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    • I agree. He really wasn't evil until the DO got its hands on him. If we're going to say tha he's an evil person for succumbing to the darkness, then we shouldn't ever be able to fully view Emma as a good person again either. I could be wrong here, but haven't people been pretty understanding about how Emma has been acting, because they know that she's under the influence of the DO? It's like someone who is heavily intoxicated; you don't expect them to behave as well as they normally would because they're under the influence of something which has a powerful effect on their judgment. You know that's not what they're truly like when fully in control of their thoughts.

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    • TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:
      I agree. He really wasn't evil until the DO got its hands on him. If we're going to say tha he's an evil person for succumbing to the darkness, then we shouldn't ever be able to fully view Emma as a good person again either. I could be wrong here, but haven't people been pretty understanding about how Emma has been acting, because they know that she's under the influence of the DO? It's like someone who is heavily intoxicated; you don't expect them to behave as well as they normally would because they're under the influence of something which has a powerful effect on their judgment. You know that's not what they're truly like when fully in control of their thoughts.

      Yes, but where Emma always did the right thing, pre-DO Rumple did not. He hobbled himself instead of fighting (it's the equivalent of deserting the army in the middle of combat nowadays, which is a felony), he let his wife be "kidnapped" then told his son she was dead, and he comitted murder in order to gain power.

      There were solutions to all of his problems. Milah gave him the option to run away together to find happiness during "The Crocodile". That was also an unspoken option in "Desperate Souls" in order to save Bae. In "Manhattan", I'll give him a pass. He had no possible way of knowing that the Seer didn't mean he'd die on the battlefield. Still, didn't Milah say something early on in the episode like "I wish you hadn't signed up" or something like that? He willingly chose to go to war, which he didn't have to do.

      All of his decisions have been the wrong ones. That's why he doesn't get the same understanding that Emma, someone who's always done the right thing, gets.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:
      I agree. He really wasn't evil until the DO got its hands on him. If we're going to say tha he's an evil person for succumbing to the darkness, then we shouldn't ever be able to fully view Emma as a good person again either. I could be wrong here, but haven't people been pretty understanding about how Emma has been acting, because they know that she's under the influence of the DO? It's like someone who is heavily intoxicated; you don't expect them to behave as well as they normally would because they're under the influence of something which has a powerful effect on their judgment. You know that's not what they're truly like when fully in control of their thoughts.
      Yes, but where Emma always did the right thing, pre-DO Rumple did not. He hobbled himself instead of fighting (it's the equivalent of deserting the army in the middle of combat nowadays, which is a felony), he let his wife be "kidnapped" then told his son she was dead, and he comitted murder in order to gain power.

      There were solutions to all of his problems. Milah gave him the option to run away together to find happiness during "The Crocodile". That was also an unspoken option in "Desperate Souls" in order to save Bae. In "Manhattan", I'll give him a pass. He had no possible way of knowing that the Seer didn't mean he'd die on the battlefield. Still, didn't Milah say something early on in the episode like "I wish you hadn't signed up" or something like that? He willingly chose to go to war, which he didn't have to do.

      All of his decisions have been the wrong ones. That's why he doesn't get the same understanding that Emma, someone who's always done the right thing, gets.

      Emma (Pre-Do) didn't always make the right decision. So, I think that staement is surely invalid for comparison. Cowardice doesn't make you an evil, evil person. He choose to flee because of love, makes him no difference when David flees to run off with Snow when the kingdom is bankrupt and people are suffering, or Neal when he left Emma for destiny. He didn't let his wife get "kidnapped". He would have lost, left Bae alone, and that would solve absolutely nothing. LAstly, Rumple didn't murder Zoso for the power lolz, he was angry too (Zoso goaded him into anger).

      He made wrong decisions, though. And he realizes that and he accepts that even when he does the right thing, bad things happen.

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    • Emma made mistakes pre-DO too. She killed Cruella with no influence from the darkness. Neither character was originally evil, but they both made bad choices. Fear tends to make people act rashly.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:
      I agree. He really wasn't evil until the DO got its hands on him. If we're going to say tha he's an evil person for succumbing to the darkness, then we shouldn't ever be able to fully view Emma as a good person again either. I could be wrong here, but haven't people been pretty understanding about how Emma has been acting, because they know that she's under the influence of the DO? It's like someone who is heavily intoxicated; you don't expect them to behave as well as they normally would because they're under the influence of something which has a powerful effect on their judgment. You know that's not what they're truly like when fully in control of their thoughts.
      Yes, but where Emma always did the right thing, pre-DO Rumple did not. He hobbled himself instead of fighting (it's the equivalent of deserting the army in the middle of combat nowadays, which is a felony), he let his wife be "kidnapped" then told his son she was dead, and he comitted murder in order to gain power.

      There were solutions to all of his problems. Milah gave him the option to run away together to find happiness during "The Crocodile". That was also an unspoken option in "Desperate Souls" in order to save Bae. In "Manhattan", I'll give him a pass. He had no possible way of knowing that the Seer didn't mean he'd die on the battlefield. Still, didn't Milah say something early on in the episode like "I wish you hadn't signed up" or something like that? He willingly chose to go to war, which he didn't have to do.

      All of his decisions have been the wrong ones. That's why he doesn't get the same understanding that Emma, someone who's always done the right thing, gets.

      Emma (Pre-Do) didn't always make the right decision. So, I think that staement is surely invalid for comparison. Cowardice doesn't make you an evil, evil person. He choose to flee because of love, makes him no difference when David flees to run off with Snow when the kingdom is bankrupt and people are suffering, or Neal when he left Emma for destiny. He didn't let his wife get "kidnapped". He would have lost, left Bae alone, and that would solve absolutely nothing. LAstly, Rumple didn't murder Zoso for the power lolz, he was angry too (Zoso goaded him into anger).

      He made wrong decisions, though. And he realizes that and he accepts that even when he does the right thing, bad things happen.

      Once again, I have posted only to find that someone else said the same thing while I was typing. Sorry. I agree with you.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:
      I agree. He really wasn't evil until the DO got its hands on him. If we're going to say tha he's an evil person for succumbing to the darkness, then we shouldn't ever be able to fully view Emma as a good person again either. I could be wrong here, but haven't people been pretty understanding about how Emma has been acting, because they know that she's under the influence of the DO? It's like someone who is heavily intoxicated; you don't expect them to behave as well as they normally would because they're under the influence of something which has a powerful effect on their judgment. You know that's not what they're truly like when fully in control of their thoughts.
      Yes, but where Emma always did the right thing, pre-DO Rumple did not. He hobbled himself instead of fighting (it's the equivalent of deserting the army in the middle of combat nowadays, which is a felony), he let his wife be "kidnapped" then told his son she was dead, and he comitted murder in order to gain power.

      There were solutions to all of his problems. Milah gave him the option to run away together to find happiness during "The Crocodile". That was also an unspoken option in "Desperate Souls" in order to save Bae. In "Manhattan", I'll give him a pass. He had no possible way of knowing that the Seer didn't mean he'd die on the battlefield. Still, didn't Milah say something early on in the episode like "I wish you hadn't signed up" or something like that? He willingly chose to go to war, which he didn't have to do.

      All of his decisions have been the wrong ones. That's why he doesn't get the same understanding that Emma, someone who's always done the right thing, gets.

      Emma (Pre-Do) didn't always make the right decision. So, I think that staement is surely invalid for comparison. Cowardice doesn't make you an evil, evil person. He choose to flee because of love, makes him no difference when David flees to run off with Snow when the kingdom is bankrupt and people are suffering, or Neal when he left Emma for destiny. He didn't let his wife get "kidnapped". He would have lost, left Bae alone, and that would solve absolutely nothing. LAstly, Rumple didn't murder Zoso for the power lolz, he was angry too (Zoso goaded him into anger).

      He made wrong decisions, though. And he realizes that and he accepts that even when he does the right thing, bad things happen.

      I agree. Plenty of characters have made bad decisions, but that doesn't necessarily make them evil. As they say, good peopel can make bad choices and bad people can make good choices.

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    • TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:
      Emma made mistakes pre-DO too. She killed Cruella with no influence from the darkness. Neither character was originally evil, but they both made bad choices. Fear tends to make people act rashly.

      That was hardly a mistake. She killed in self-defense of a third person. (That's an actual legal defense btw) She didn't have the knowledge that Cruella couldn't kill. For all she knew, that woman would shoot her child with no remorse whatsoever.

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    • Arctucrus wrote:
      I think The Sultan is the evilest villain, purely for that act of trying to murder his own son. There is nothing more purely evil than murdering your own son. At least in my eyes.

      After the Sultan, I'm going to go with Cora. She manipulated countless people, and was willing to stomp all over anyone-including her own daughter-to get what she wanted, for power. 

      Closely behind Cora is Jafar, in my book, and closely behind him is Pancolm. Jafar comes after Cora solely because we have seen him do less torturing, manipulating, and murdering, but, for the same purpose as her: personal gain and power. Stomping all over people for his own gain.

      Pan comes after Jafar because he did manipulate and torture, but only really tried to murder one person, as far as we saw. He may have harmed more lives than Jafar, but Jafar is raw evil, and harmed those lives that he did harm far more than Pan ever did. Pan harmed more lives, but they suffered less damage each, in my opinion. Jafar's victims suffered so much more each than Pan's victims. 

      At the bottom of the list are, in this order, Regina, then Rumplestiltskin, and then Hook, as the least evil. 

      I'm not counting the Jabberwocky because she is different, in my opinion.

      Lol, looking back, I disagree with myself.

      For one, I think that "most evil" person/character can be defined in many different ways, such as "did the most evil things," or, "most evil in character."

      For the latter I'd easily say Jafar now, who, like Applegirl said somewhere up there long ago -- There's a point when you stop being the victim, and you have to own up to your own actions/behaviors. Jafar stopped being a victim from his father killing him long ago, and went way, way beyond all of that in his following actions. These actions and behaviors, these mannerisms, are what give him the most evil character award, in my eyes. His attitude and persona just reeks of all these negative things.

      For the former... It's a little tougher to grade who did the most evil things. I would say Jafar, again, but in truth, we've seen little of all his actions. I would say Cora, but she fits the "most evil persona" award better, despite not having "won" it in my book. I think for the former, I'd have to go with either Rumple or Regina -- Personally speaking, they've done the most evil things out of all the characters on-screen. 

      Those're my two cents.

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    • MasterofCows wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:
      I agree. He really wasn't evil until the DO got its hands on him. If we're going to say tha he's an evil person for succumbing to the darkness, then we shouldn't ever be able to fully view Emma as a good person again either. I could be wrong here, but haven't people been pretty understanding about how Emma has been acting, because they know that she's under the influence of the DO? It's like someone who is heavily intoxicated; you don't expect them to behave as well as they normally would because they're under the influence of something which has a powerful effect on their judgment. You know that's not what they're truly like when fully in control of their thoughts.
      Yes, but where Emma always did the right thing, pre-DO Rumple did not. He hobbled himself instead of fighting (it's the equivalent of deserting the army in the middle of combat nowadays, which is a felony), he let his wife be "kidnapped" then told his son she was dead, and he comitted murder in order to gain power.

      There were solutions to all of his problems. Milah gave him the option to run away together to find happiness during "The Crocodile". That was also an unspoken option in "Desperate Souls" in order to save Bae. In "Manhattan", I'll give him a pass. He had no possible way of knowing that the Seer didn't mean he'd die on the battlefield. Still, didn't Milah say something early on in the episode like "I wish you hadn't signed up" or something like that? He willingly chose to go to war, which he didn't have to do.

      All of his decisions have been the wrong ones. That's why he doesn't get the same understanding that Emma, someone who's always done the right thing, gets.

      Emma (Pre-Do) didn't always make the right decision. So, I think that staement is surely invalid for comparison. Cowardice doesn't make you an evil, evil person. He choose to flee because of love, makes him no difference when David flees to run off with Snow when the kingdom is bankrupt and people are suffering, or Neal when he left Emma for destiny. He didn't let his wife get "kidnapped". He would have lost, left Bae alone, and that would solve absolutely nothing. LAstly, Rumple didn't murder Zoso for the power lolz, he was angry too (Zoso goaded him into anger).

      He made wrong decisions, though. And he realizes that and he accepts that even when he does the right thing, bad things happen.

      I agree. Plenty of characters have made bad decisions, but that doesn't necessarily make them evil. As they say, good peopel can make bad choices and bad people can make good choices.

      Rumple and Emma have both made bad choices before becoming the DO. These are common choices that regular people make. Neither one of them was a bad person. Emma and Rumple are not that different. Emma became the DO to save Regina. Rumple became the DO to save his son (although he clearly did not consider all of the options if he thought the most logical way of preventing his son from getting drafted into the ogre wars was becoming the DO). Emma, however, did immediately try to get rid of her darkness. Rumple never tried to do the same. Although, Emma has started enjoying the darkness. She has only been the DO for 6 weeks and she has already cursed everyone and taken their memmories. We haven't seen the full story yet, so we don't know everything. Rumple also appeared to turn completely evil right after becoming the DO. Within his first year he killed his wife, abandoned his son, and killed various innocent people. We don't know what Emma has done or will do. Maybe an image of Zoso made convinced Rumple to do all those things. As seen with both DO's, they do have some potential for good. They are capable of loving their significant others and their sons, but not enough that it will destroy their darkness.

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    • Arthur's definitely getting up there.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Arthur's definitely getting up there.

      Yeah,  he literally sits on a thrown of lies!

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Arthur's definitely getting up there.
      Yeah,  he literally sits on a thrown of lies!

      He reminds me of Peter Pan a lot. He's obsessed with the Dagger like Pan was with immortality.

      And Pan, to me, was up there with Cruella and Jafar as the most evil villain. So Arthur is definitely up there.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Arthur's definitely getting up there.
      Yeah,  he literally sits on a thrown of lies!
      He reminds me of Peter Pan a lot. He's obsessed with the Dagger like Pan was with immortality.

      And Pan, to me, was up there with Cruella and Jafar as the most evil villain. So Arthur is definitely up there.

      WOW. 5x04 must've changed a LOT then (I'm about to go see it), because to call him up to par with Jafar :o

      BRB BRB BRB BRB BRB 

      HYYYYYYYYYYYYYPE :P

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    • Arctucrus wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Arthur's definitely getting up there.
      Yeah,  he literally sits on a thrown of lies!
      He reminds me of Peter Pan a lot. He's obsessed with the Dagger like Pan was with immortality.

      And Pan, to me, was up there with Cruella and Jafar as the most evil villain. So Arthur is definitely up there.

      WOW. 5x04 must've changed a LOT then (I'm about to go see it), because to call him up to par with Jafar :o

      BRB BRB BRB BRB BRB 

      HYYYYYYYYYYYYYPE :P

      Get ready to board the Hype Train lol

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    • The interesting thing about 5x04 was how Emma could actually silence the Dark One's voice in her head through love and support. This means that Rumple could have done the same with Bae, so he is still accountable for everything he did. I'm glad how the writers subtly hinted that giving in to the Dark One's powers is a choice after all.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:

      MBrody wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:

      Thomas762 wrote:
      how  about cruella the only villan who seemed evil down to the core.

      Cruella and Jafar are those I see as truly evil. Cruella was a born sociopath, while Jafar became one over a large portion of his life.

      Cruella was a psychopath, not a sociopath. And Pan was one, too. So I would say they are the only ones who are truly evil.

      Sociopath is someone with no empathy or compassion. But high-functioning and can act like they do have emotions.

      Both villains fit sociopath. Psychopath is someone like... Zelena. Completely unhinged.

      I have heard that reversed. I have also heard that sociopaths are made that way by environment (like Regina or Zelena), while psychopaths are born that way (i.e. Pan and Cruella).

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    • MBrody wrote:

      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:

      MBrody wrote:

      Eskaver wrote:


      Thomas762 wrote:
      how  about cruella the only villan who seemed evil down to the core.

      Cruella and Jafar are those I see as truly evil. Cruella was a born sociopath, while Jafar became one over a large portion of his life.
      Cruella was a psychopath, not a sociopath. And Pan was one, too. So I would say they are the only ones who are truly evil.
      Sociopath is someone with no empathy or compassion. But high-functioning and can act like they do have emotions.

      Both villains fit sociopath. Psychopath is someone like... Zelena. Completely unhinged.

      I have heard that reversed. I have also heard that sociopaths are made that way by environment (like Regina or Zelena), while psychopaths are born that way (i.e. Pan and Cruella).

      I got confused by what you said so I looked them both up.

      Sociopaths are antisocial and have no conscience. Like Pan and Cruella.

      Pyschopaths are violent and aggressive. Like Regina and Zelena.

      So I was right lol

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • I agree with the person who said that King Arthur is getting up there on the list. He's pretty much the more successful version of King George, doing anything and everything he can to keep his power.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • MyPretties wrote:
      I agree with the person who said that King Arthur is getting up there on the list. He's pretty much the more successful version of King George, doing anything and everything he can to keep his power.

      Definitily King Arthur is in my list. I think that minght had been he that set te curse.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Cami b vaz wrote:
      MyPretties wrote:
      I agree with the person who said that King Arthur is getting up there on the list. He's pretty much the more successful version of King George, doing anything and everything he can to keep his power.
      Definitily King Arthur is in my list. I think that minght had been he that set te curse.

      But I would think that if he cast the curse, he would have made it so he would have his memories. Or maybe he had no control over that...

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    • MasterofCows wrote:
      Cami b vaz wrote:
      MyPretties wrote:
      I agree with the person who said that King Arthur is getting up there on the list. He's pretty much the more successful version of King George, doing anything and everything he can to keep his power.
      Definitily King Arthur is in my list. I think that minght had been he that set te curse.
      But I would think that if he cast the curse, he would have made it so he would have his memories. Or maybe he had no control over that...

      Emma could have add the erasing memories curse after he set the Dark Curse, just like Zelen did whif Snow

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    • Cami b vaz wrote:
      MasterofCows wrote:
      Cami b vaz wrote:
      MyPretties wrote:
      I agree with the person who said that King Arthur is getting up there on the list. He's pretty much the more successful version of King George, doing anything and everything he can to keep his power.
      Definitily King Arthur is in my list. I think that minght had been he that set te curse.
      But I would think that if he cast the curse, he would have made it so he would have his memories. Or maybe he had no control over that...
      Emma could have add the erasing memories curse after he set the Dark Curse, just like Zelen did whif Snow

      That's a good point! I think either Emma or Arthur cast the curse. They are the only "villains" right now. It could have been one of the heroes too, but I doubt that.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:
      I agree. He really wasn't evil until the DO got its hands on him. If we're going to say tha he's an evil person for succumbing to the darkness, then we shouldn't ever be able to fully view Emma as a good person again either. I could be wrong here, but haven't people been pretty understanding about how Emma has been acting, because they know that she's under the influence of the DO? It's like someone who is heavily intoxicated; you don't expect them to behave as well as they normally would because they're under the influence of something which has a powerful effect on their judgment. You know that's not what they're truly like when fully in control of their thoughts.

      And now Belle agrees with me. :D 

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    • TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:
      TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:
      I agree. He really wasn't evil until the DO got its hands on him. If we're going to say tha he's an evil person for succumbing to the darkness, then we shouldn't ever be able to fully view Emma as a good person again either. I could be wrong here, but haven't people been pretty understanding about how Emma has been acting, because they know that she's under the influence of the DO? It's like someone who is heavily intoxicated; you don't expect them to behave as well as they normally would because they're under the influence of something which has a powerful effect on their judgment. You know that's not what they're truly like when fully in control of their thoughts.
      And now Belle agrees with me. :D 

      Honestly, it's because Rumple was portrayed as having made every decision himself. Yes, we now know retroactively that he wasn't himself, the Darkness was manipulating him, but it hardly matters.

      It's like if we saw Cora being Mother Theresa before her encounter with Jonathan making her a power-hungry crone. It still wouldn't change how we view her.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:
      TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:
      I agree. He really wasn't evil until the DO got its hands on him. If we're going to say tha he's an evil person for succumbing to the darkness, then we shouldn't ever be able to fully view Emma as a good person again either. I could be wrong here, but haven't people been pretty understanding about how Emma has been acting, because they know that she's under the influence of the DO? It's like someone who is heavily intoxicated; you don't expect them to behave as well as they normally would because they're under the influence of something which has a powerful effect on their judgment. You know that's not what they're truly like when fully in control of their thoughts.
      And now Belle agrees with me. :D 
      Honestly, it's because Rumple was portrayed as having made every decision himself. Yes, we now know retroactively that he wasn't himself, the Darkness was manipulating him, but it hardly matters.

      It's like if we saw Cora being Mother Theresa before her encounter with Jonathan making her a power-hungry crone. It still wouldn't change how we view her.

      I think in Rumple's case, as well as Emma's, that the Darkness seems to be "ends justify the means' sort of entity. Rumple did much of his villainy for more power to keep his son safe, then later to get his son back. Emma is likely justifying doing her vaguely mean things because she's doing something she might think she need to do. It's pretty much an addiction. You might try it once, but are likely to convince yourself to use it again and again and even when you try to stop, there's this huge urge to give in.  They can resist it, but it's simply hard to.

      Now, for Cora, I guess we have to see child Cora because she seems ambitious, but likely from her mother.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:
      TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:
      I agree. He really wasn't evil until the DO got its hands on him. If we're going to say tha he's an evil person for succumbing to the darkness, then we shouldn't ever be able to fully view Emma as a good person again either. I could be wrong here, but haven't people been pretty understanding about how Emma has been acting, because they know that she's under the influence of the DO? It's like someone who is heavily intoxicated; you don't expect them to behave as well as they normally would because they're under the influence of something which has a powerful effect on their judgment. You know that's not what they're truly like when fully in control of their thoughts.
      And now Belle agrees with me. :D 
      Honestly, it's because Rumple was portrayed as having made every decision himself. Yes, we now know retroactively that he wasn't himself, the Darkness was manipulating him, but it hardly matters.

      It's like if we saw Cora being Mother Theresa before her encounter with Jonathan making her a power-hungry crone. It still wouldn't change how we view her.

      I think in Rumple's case, as well as Emma's, that the Darkness seems to be "ends justify the means' sort of entity. Rumple did much of his villainy for more power to keep his son safe, then later to get his son back. Emma is likely justifying doing her vaguely mean things because she's doing something she might think she need to do. It's pretty much an addiction. You might try it once, but are likely to convince yourself to use it again and again and even when you try to stop, there's this huge urge to give in.  They can resist it, but it's simply hard to.

      Now, for Cora, I guess we have to see child Cora because she seems ambitious, but likely from her mother.

      Cora's mother, you mean? O_o

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    • Arctucrus wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:
      TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:
      I agree. He really wasn't evil until the DO got its hands on him. If we're going to say tha he's an evil person for succumbing to the darkness, then we shouldn't ever be able to fully view Emma as a good person again either. I could be wrong here, but haven't people been pretty understanding about how Emma has been acting, because they know that she's under the influence of the DO? It's like someone who is heavily intoxicated; you don't expect them to behave as well as they normally would because they're under the influence of something which has a powerful effect on their judgment. You know that's not what they're truly like when fully in control of their thoughts.
      And now Belle agrees with me. :D 
      Honestly, it's because Rumple was portrayed as having made every decision himself. Yes, we now know retroactively that he wasn't himself, the Darkness was manipulating him, but it hardly matters.

      It's like if we saw Cora being Mother Theresa before her encounter with Jonathan making her a power-hungry crone. It still wouldn't change how we view her.

      I think in Rumple's case, as well as Emma's, that the Darkness seems to be "ends justify the means' sort of entity. Rumple did much of his villainy for more power to keep his son safe, then later to get his son back. Emma is likely justifying doing her vaguely mean things because she's doing something she might think she need to do. It's pretty much an addiction. You might try it once, but are likely to convince yourself to use it again and again and even when you try to stop, there's this huge urge to give in.  They can resist it, but it's simply hard to.

      Now, for Cora, I guess we have to see child Cora because she seems ambitious, but likely from her mother.

      Cora's mother, you mean? O_o

      I think Cora said something about her mother telling her to be of a lady.

      NVM, Cora said that someone once told her to act like what you plan to be. Whoever that is.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Eskaver wrote:
      Arctucrus wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:
      TrumpetofTheSwan wrote:
      I agree. He really wasn't evil until the DO got its hands on him. If we're going to say tha he's an evil person for succumbing to the darkness, then we shouldn't ever be able to fully view Emma as a good person again either. I could be wrong here, but haven't people been pretty understanding about how Emma has been acting, because they know that she's under the influence of the DO? It's like someone who is heavily intoxicated; you don't expect them to behave as well as they normally would because they're under the influence of something which has a powerful effect on their judgment. You know that's not what they're truly like when fully in control of their thoughts.
      And now Belle agrees with me. :D 
      Honestly, it's because Rumple was portrayed as having made every decision himself. Yes, we now know retroactively that he wasn't himself, the Darkness was manipulating him, but it hardly matters.

      It's like if we saw Cora being Mother Theresa before her encounter with Jonathan making her a power-hungry crone. It still wouldn't change how we view her.

      I think in Rumple's case, as well as Emma's, that the Darkness seems to be "ends justify the means' sort of entity. Rumple did much of his villainy for more power to keep his son safe, then later to get his son back. Emma is likely justifying doing her vaguely mean things because she's doing something she might think she need to do. It's pretty much an addiction. You might try it once, but are likely to convince yourself to use it again and again and even when you try to stop, there's this huge urge to give in.  They can resist it, but it's simply hard to.
      Now, for Cora, I guess we have to see child Cora because she seems ambitious, but likely from her mother.
      Cora's mother, you mean? O_o
      I think Cora said something about her mother telling her to be of a lady.

      NVM, Cora said that someone once told her to act like what you plan to be. Whoever that is.

      Well, if her mother really is Demeter (since we're all now sure Cora is going to be Persephone), that would explain that statement. Demeter would want her daughter to act like a goddess (the Greek pantheon is usually portrayed as regal). And it would also explain why Cora's daughter was born with magic, when her mother did not know magic at that time in her life. Because she's a demi-goddess.

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    • That might seem odd at first, but I have to say Cruella. All the other vilains have reasons that made them evil. Pan was a poor guy that got beaten, Cora had just a horrible horrible life...You see, they all had misery that made them evil...except Cruella. No, she just decided to be evil. She is born evil and she just killed all of her family for fun and she got no regret. That is just insane.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Croquedead wrote:
      That might seem odd at first, but I have to say Cruella. All the other vilains have reasons that made them evil. Pan was a poor guy that got beaten, Cora had just a horrible horrible life...You see, they all had misery that made them evil...except Cruella. No, she just decided to be evil. She is born evil and she just killed all of her family for fun and she got no regret. That is just insane.

      Well I think Cruella is simply crazy and has a psychologic problem, so you cant really blame her. She should simply be put into a gummi cell 

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • Cruella being born evil... Who thought I would find yet another reason why 4B goes totally against the Show's concepts and themes? So much for evil being made and not born.

      In case you don't know what I'm talking about, I always argue that 4B contradicts the whole theme of the show: the way I see it, Once Upon a Time has always been about showing that there is no such a thing as an iconic villain or hero, rather real people with real problems and real personalities. No one is an "good old wise king", an "wicked witch", or a naive and nice 100% kind princess. They are human beings. All Season 4B was show us that these people actually identify themselves as heroes and villains (which is probably the most childish concept I've ever seen on a show that is not aimed for children, and is completely unrealistic) who actually think they are good or evil, light or dark, and want "villains to win". In real life, and in all of the previous episodes, people just want to win for what they personally consider to be best. Regina spent decades claiming the "Evil" tag was imposed by the Charmings, and that she was actually fighting to right a wrong. Rumplestiltskin did EVERYTHING he did, just to save his son. But 4B? 4B was all about self-acclaimed villains wanting a happy ending for the Villain Community lol

      PS: Rumple is probably the most evil character ever.

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    • Killian Jones wrote:
      Cruella being born evil... Who thought I would find yet another reason why 4B goes totally against the Show's concepts and themes? So much for evil being made and not born.

      In case you don't know what I'm talking about, I always argue that 4B contradicts the whole theme of the show: the way I see it, Once Upon a Time has always been about showing that there is no such a thing as an iconic villain or hero, rather real people with real problems and real personalities. No one is an "good old wise king", an "wicked witch", or a naive and nice 100% kind princess. They are human beings. All Season 4B was show us that these people actually identify themselves as heroes and villains (which is probably the most childish concept I've ever seen on a show that is not aimed for children, and is completely unrealistic) who actually think they are good or evil, light or dark, and want "villains to win". In real life, and in all of the previous episodes, people just want to win for what they personally consider to be best. Regina spent decades claiming the "Evil" tag was imposed by the Charmings, and that she was actually fighting to right a wrong. Rumplestiltskin did EVERYTHING he did, just to save his son. But 4B? 4B was all about self-acclaimed villains wanting a happy ending for the Villain Community lol

      PS: Rumple is probably the most evil character ever.

      I agree with your assessment on season 4B. However, to be fair, Cruella's situation is realistic to real life and there are people like her. No , she was not born evil, but she was born mentally ill.

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    • True, but the show never regarded it as a mental illness. They treat Zelena as a mentally ill character, when she is a perfectly healthy cruel person. Cruella, on the other hand, who looks more like a mental case, is treated as someone who just happens to splash in darkness.

      EDIT: Wait, did someone call her a psychopath on-screen? I can't remember wether it happened on screen or here xD

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    • Killian Jones wrote:
      Cruella being born evil... Who thought I would find yet another reason why 4B goes totally against the Show's concepts and themes? So much for evil being made and not born.

      In case you don't know what I'm talking about, I always argue that 4B contradicts the whole theme of the show: the way I see it, Once Upon a Time has always been about showing that there is no such a thing as an iconic villain or hero, rather real people with real problems and real personalities. No one is an "good old wise king", an "wicked witch", or a naive and nice 100% kind princess. They are human beings. All Season 4B was show us that these people actually identify themselves as heroes and villains (which is probably the most childish concept I've ever seen on a show that is not aimed for children, and is completely unrealistic) who actually think they are good or evil, light or dark, and want "villains to win". In real life, and in all of the previous episodes, people just want to win for what they personally consider to be best. Regina spent decades claiming the "Evil" tag was imposed by the Charmings, and that she was actually fighting to right a wrong. Rumplestiltskin did EVERYTHING he did, just to save his son. But 4B? 4B was all about self-acclaimed villains wanting a happy ending for the Villain Community lol

      PS: Rumple is probably the most evil character ever.

      To be fair.... even before the sloppy 4.B arc, it was the characters who labeled themselves as either Heroes or Villains. The people may have started calling Regina "the Evil Queen", but then she began reveling in the title. The problem was mainly, "it is time the Villains got their Happy Endings".... did Rumplestiltskin and Zelena really think, they could steal everyone's Happily Ever Afters, by creating an alternate universe? 

      PS: Rumple is not the most evil.... just the most spineless, lol. 


      Killian Jones wrote:

      EDIT: Wait, did someone call her a psychopath on-screen? I can't remember wether it happened on screen or here xD

      It is possible that Cruella labeled herself as one.... or maybe it was her mother?

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    • ChocolatEyes613
      ChocolatEyes613 removed this reply because:
      double post
      18:06, December 16, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • Killian Jones wrote:
      True, but the show never regarded it as a mental illness. They treat Zelena as a mentally ill character, when she is a perfectly healthy cruel person. Cruella, on the other hand, who looks more like a mental case, is treated as someone who just happens to splash in darkness.

      EDIT: Wait, did someone call her a psychopath on-screen? I can't remember wether it happened on screen or here xD

      I think they don't try to use mental illness correctly or anything beyond simply evil and not evil. I think they see Zelena as perfectly healthy, just bizarrely jealous. Even though, she's in an asylum that means very little on show, because Sidney was locked up there and he was pretty much fine (even if you would think he has some weird Stockholm Syndrome).

      I think they also don't really consider that magnitude of various things. They call Regina a sociopath, but it's not like she goes to therapy or something, plus she tends to still do evil things every now and then. Rumple is called a sociopath, but he's pretty much self-loathing.

      At least, how I saw it was they think everyone is a product of their enviroment and their nature and it's all about the light and darkness in their heart or something. Archie, where are you?

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    • Killian Jones wrote:
      True, but the show never regarded it as a mental illness. They treat Zelena as a mentally ill character, when she is a perfectly healthy cruel person. Cruella, on the other hand, who looks more like a mental case, is treated as someone who just happens to splash in darkness.

      Zelena and Cruella are both mental cases, just in different ways. Zelena has the emotional development of a hormonal, and jealous teenager when she is a grown woman. Cruella was the only character who could be labeled as a sociopath, and her mother locking her in the attic did not help. The thing is that Zelena, is even less sympathetic than Cruella.... the writers just refuse to admit that.

        Preparing Editor Spell
    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Killian Jones wrote:
      True, but the show never regarded it as a mental illness. They treat Zelena as a mentally ill character, when she is a perfectly healthy cruel person. Cruella, on the other hand, who looks more like a mental case, is treated as someone who just happens to splash in darkness.
      Zelena and Cruella are both mental cases, just in different ways. Zelena has the emotional development of a hormonal, and jealous teenager when she is a grown woman. Cruella was the only character who could be labeled as a sociopath, and her mother locking her in the attic did not help. The thing is that Zelena, is even less sympathetic than Cruella.... the writers just refuse to admit that.

      Zelena is far more sympathethic. Cruella killed her parents and step parents just because. Zelena hasn't even killed anyone directly and she makes valid points all the time.

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    • Sociopathy isn't a mental illness. It's a birth defect. You are born without the parts of the brain that show empathy or compassion, and can never develop these things no matter how loved and stable you are.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Sociopathy isn't a mental illness. It's a birth defect. You are born without the parts of the brain that show empathy or compassion, and can never develop these things no matter how loved and stable you are.

      Sure........, but it's likely some mental disorder. Whether it's antisocial personality or borderline disorder, it's something that can possibly be attributed to some of the "villains".

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    • Eskaver wrote:

      Whether it's antisocial personality or borderline disorder, it's something that can possibly be attributed to some of the "villains".

      Incorrect.... the only villain who can truly be labeled as a sociopath, is Cruella De Vil. She was the only one who was antisocial, and completely lacked empathy. The writers just like thowing the term around, when describing every villain. 

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:

      Whether it's antisocial personality or borderline disorder, it's something that can possibly be attributed to some of the "villains".

      Incorrect.... the only villain who can truly be labeled as a sociopath, is Cruella De Vil. She was the only one who was antisocial, and completely lacked empathy. The writers just like thowing the term around, when describing every villain. 

      I was talking about more than "sociopathy".

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    • Jafar or Pan. No doubts

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    • Zelena is far more sympathethic. Cruella killed her parents and step parents just because. Zelena hasn't even killed anyone directly and she makes valid points all the time.


      Zelena has killed someone directly . . . at least on screen. And she has attempted to kill someone on screen.

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    • CTrent29 wrote:
      Zelena is far more sympathethic. Cruella killed her parents and step parents just because. Zelena hasn't even killed anyone directly and she makes valid points all the time.

      Zelena has killed someone directly . . . at least on screen. And she has attempted to kill someone on screen.

      Killed who? Neal was indirectly.

      Attempted to kill, sure I'll give you that. However, Zelena has humanity and normal-ness tucked behind her envy. Cruella did not.

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    • Eskaver wrote:
      CTrent29 wrote:
      Zelena is far more sympathethic. Cruella killed her parents and step parents just because. Zelena hasn't even killed anyone directly and she makes valid points all the time.

      Zelena has killed someone directly . . . at least on screen. And she has attempted to kill someone on screen.

      Killed who? Neal was indirectly.

      Attempted to kill, sure I'll give you that. However, Zelena has humanity and normal-ness tucked behind her envy. Cruella did not.

      Marian. She directly killed Marian, and tried to kill multiple people, her own nephew included. Hell, considering her original plan (changing time), she would've killed HERSELF. If her plan had gone through and Cora had married Leopold, Zelena would've disappeared from existence, because the future would've been rewritten and thus she would be a time paradox.

      Unless she would've been trapped in the past after time was rewritten, which of course would be the perfect punishment for her and has happened in many, many time travel stories before. Literally grow older seeing the life she would've had, while unable to experience it firsthand.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Eskaver wrote:
      CTrent29 wrote:
      Zelena is far more sympathethic. Cruella killed her parents and step parents just because. Zelena hasn't even killed anyone directly and she makes valid points all the time.Zelena has killed someone directly . . . at least on screen. And she has attempted to kill someone on screen.
      Killed who? Neal was indirectly.

      Attempted to kill, sure I'll give you that. However, Zelena has humanity and normal-ness tucked behind her envy. Cruella did not.

      Marian. She directly killed Marian, and tried to kill multiple people, her own nephew included. Hell, considering her original plan (changing time), she would've killed HERSELF. If her plan had gone through and Cora had married Leopold, Zelena would've disappeared from existence, because the future would've been rewritten and thus she would be a time paradox.

      Unless she would've been trapped in the past after time was rewritten, which of course would be the perfect punishment for her and has happened in many, many time travel stories before. Literally grow older seeing the life she would've had, while unable to experience it firsthand.

      LOL, I totally forgot!

      I'm thinking that Zelena would have morphed into whatever daughter Cora had.

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    • Cruella, without a doubt

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    • Oh, God. Cruella. Or maybe Hades. Not even love could redeem him.

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    • Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      Oh, God. Cruella. Or maybe Hades. Not even love could redeem him.


      That's a bit unfair, though. It took Rumple what, all of six seasons to finally be able to choose family / love over power, how'd you expect Hades to make that in two episodes? Perhaps, given time, Zelena could have redeemed him after many and many and many slips on both parts. But alas, he got whacked at the first occasion.

      I think the perception of how evil villains are also depends a lot on how much screen time they had.

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    • King George... Cruella...

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    • 1. Cruella

      2. Pan and Black Fairy (Equal, one isn't worse than the other IMHO)

      3. Hades

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    • 1. Jafar

      2. Regina/Rumple

      3. The Black Fairy/Peter Pan

      4. Cruella

      5. Cora

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    • The Evil Queen.  Hades said something along the lines that besides Rumple, no one had sent more souls to the Underworld than the EQ and she did that in a very short amount of time when compared to Rumple.  We saw the EQ willing to kill a family member (EQ crushing her father's heart to cast the Dark Curse) to get what she wanted.  When Snow and Charming finally captured the EQ and was about to kill her the EQ stated that her one regret was that she wasn't able to cause more pain, inflict more misery and bring about more death.  And just casting the Dark Curse was pure evil.  Splitting up loved ones and trapping them in false identites takes the cake IMO.  

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    • DSP88 wrote:
      The Evil Queen.  Hades said something along the lines that besides Rumple, no one had sent more souls to the Underworld than the EQ and she did that in a very short amount of time when compared to Rumple.  We saw the EQ willing to kill a family member (EQ crushing her father's heart to cast the Dark Curse) to get what she wanted.  When Snow and Charming finally captured the EQ and was about to kill her the EQ stated that her one regret was that she wasn't able to cause more pain, inflict more misery and bring about more death.  And just casting the Dark Curse was pure evil.  Splitting up loved ones and trapping them in false identites takes the cake IMO.  

      That plus the fact that she was able to free herself in Neverland because she had no regrets

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    • Is Cruella the exception to the evil is made not born rule?

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    • Pan.He was willing to kill his own grandson and even the rest of his family and friends.He killed his most loyal Lost Boy.

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    • Peter Pan. He is feared by everyone in Neverland, he kills any Lost Boy who even thinks about leaving Neverland, while actually giving them a fate worse than death by ripping their shadows painfully from their corpses and giving them eternal suffering. He manipulated Henry to kill him so he can take his heart in order to be immortal, he abandoned his own son just to be young again and actually enjoyed seeing his son crying out to him. He was extremely cruel to Wendy, locking her up in a cage while using her as leverage to force her brothers to work for him forever. He even killed his most loyal Lost Boy just to enact a curse. Plus, he's hot. 

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    • I'd say the three most evil are Peter Pan, Cruella, and the Black Fairy. None of them seemed to have any redeeming characteristics at all. Even Cora got a post-mortem redemption, and we know she was more evil than Regina ever was.

      I'm just getting into the Black Fairy's arc and she's described as a twisted soul who tortures kids. She and Pan really are perfect for each other. (Edit: Except she didn't start out evil, nor did Malcolm seem visibly evil when they were married, but it doesn't change the person she became)

      Cruella was one of those rare villains who didn't even have a tragic backstory, she was a psychotic serial killer even as a kid.

      It's been a long time since I saw Season 3 so I don't remember a whole lot about Pan, but I do remember he was evil enough to remind me of Joffrey, and to be really satisfied when he died, and again when he went to hell in Season 5. Reading the comments above remind me what he did, so yeah, he's definitely tied with Cruella and Fiona at the very least.

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    • Rumple and Cora. Both were willing to sacrifice their own children for what they wanted. Even with as much backstory as we have on them, it doesn't excuse the thing's they've done.

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    • For me it’s Nimue, Cruella and Hades. They are the only villains I recall with no tragic backstory/reasoning for their villains and no remorse either. They were evil and they knew it and didn’t care. All other Big Bads had a bit of sympathy. Regina, Cora, Zelena, Ingrid, Ursula, Rumple, Drizella, and Rapunzel all had tragic backstories. Fiona and Pan at least had reasons in their own mind. Fiona did love Rumple. And Maleficent has no backstory we know of, but she loved Lily and was willing to change for her. Cruella, Nimue and Hades on the other hand just used their loved ones for their schemes and didn’t care.

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    • I think Cora. Everything she did was to get her daughter on the throne, which is slightly admirable, but the things she did were unforgivable. She killed Daniel, tried to turn Regina into a baby mill (resulting in her inability to have children) and separated the two sisters. Hades had some heart, seeing as he genuinely cared for Zelena. Pan was pretty bad too, since he gave up his son for his own youth and would do anything, even sacrificing his grandson, to get what he wanted.

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    • Top 5

      1. Rumple (I mean he is Hades' bggest supplier and has done nearly every heinous crime there is)

      2. Regina (closely behind Rumple, has committed nearly every heinous crime)

      3. Cruella (her happy ending was murder for crying out loud, and I am pretty sure she also is guilty of animal abuse)

      4. The Black Fairy (kidnapping and torturing kids)

      5. The Blind Witch (Cannibalism and child murder)

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    • That's a tough one.  Some of the worst people on this show get passes from the same people who scream for the heads of political figures who they simply disagree with. (I know, fact versus fiction)

      Peter Pan is a remorseless monster. He manipulates and torments innocent people and even warps them into monsters. I can somewhat sympathize with him wnating to stay young and be free, there is nothing wrong with that, but he acted on it and abandoned his son.  I felt sorry for him a few times, (did he keep the doll out of love or was it all a ploy?) but ultimately he is evil.

      Cruella is just horrible, but she's also deranged and mentally unwell. While I believe she deserved her fate (even a dog, if rabid gets put down) I don't know how in control she was. She never tried to get help and has done some pretty terrible things. Isaac actually did good with writing her ability to murder out.

      Isaac is pretty bad too. He is a case of evil being made. He might seem a bit oafish, and in my opinion made a poor villain, there's no denying what he did was horrible and I don't think he ever repented, he just became a non-threat. In some ways, Isaac reminds me of the dark side of the creators of Once. (heehee) Putting people into awful situations and acting out of character to fit the author's needs. ;)

      Rumple knows better yet he always does it again. It's not just dark magic that's his addiction, it's taking the easy way out and getting revenge. While he may deserve some redemption (who knows why?) As much as I love watching the character, he should have died along with Pan. He's just too intriguing. 

      Regina was a monster. I don't care how bad Daniel's death hurt her or how mean her mommy was, the things she did were unforgivable. (Yes I am a hypocrite, since I was glad she was redeemed even as I thought it hurt her character). What kind of evil, deranged psycho takes vengeance on innocent people for their mother killing their boyfriend? Yes, she was manipulated by Rumple along the way. Yes, she was angry and lashed out.  She was justified in throwing Cora threw the looking glass. That is where it should have ended. She could have moved on, she didn't even kill Cora, she just banished her. Daniel was avenged. But nooo, instead she decides to persecute a child and anyone who sides with her. And she even kills her father, the only person she loves and probably the only person left who loves her. Evil.

      This is why Black Fairy was anticlimatic for me. Yeah, she was nasty, but she wasn't as nasty as some series mains. 

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    • Saintfighteraqua wrote:

      This is why Black Fairy was anticlimatic for me. Yeah, she was nasty, but she wasn't as nasty as some series mains. 

      I think the thing with the BF is that she never actually hurt someone we were invested in un til 6x22. She unsuccessfully targetted Emma but that's it. Yes what she did to Gideon and the other kids was awful but we were not invested in them, or at least invested enough to feel threatened by her.

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    • 1.Fiona - continuously kidnapping and torturing children, working them to death in the process.

      2.Cora - I mean, literally had no heart. Of course she's high up here.

      3.The Blind Witch -. eats children. Yikes.

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    • TIAB1234
      TIAB1234 removed this reply because:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote: DavidTennantismyAngel wrote: You actually have a really good point about Rumple. He is to blame for almost every bad thing that ever happened in OUAT. XD, it's no wonder everyone hates him. And pretty much every major villain can claim a connection to him: Regina - Well... That one's fairly obvious. George - Brought Charming into his life. Hook - Killed Milah and took his hand. Cora - Taught her magic, which would inevitably bite him in the... butt. Greg & Tamara - Hired by his father and using his son as a pawn. Peter Pan (Before his real identity and character was revealed) - His dad, who could somehow kill Rumple if Rumple tried to kill him (that was never really explained... At all.) Zelena - He abandoned her, which made her crazier than she already was. Ingrid - Stole the ribbons she and her sisters wore, which inevitably led to Helga's death and Ingrid's inprisonment. Maleficent, Ursula and Cruella - Tricked them into getting trapped with Chernabog. Isaac - His ally. At Least before the garbage deserted him (before he got arrested). And now Emma - His successor as the Dark One. The only villains whose soup he hasn't put his hands into are Jafar (though I wouldn't put it past Rumple to know Amara, who is also immortal), Anastasia (who is technically his grandstudent through Cora) and Jabberwocky.
      02:23, March 29, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • TIAB1234 wrote:
      Edward Zachary Sunrose wrote:
      DavidTennantismyAngel wrote:
      You actually have a really good point about Rumple. He is to blame for almost every bad thing that ever happened in OUAT. XD, it's no wonder everyone hates him.
      And pretty much every major villain can claim a connection to him:

      Regina - Well... That one's fairly obvious.

      George - Brought Charming into his life.

      Hook - Killed Milah and took his hand.

      Cora - Taught her magic, which would inevitably bite him in the... butt.

      Greg & Tamara - Hired by his father and using his son as a pawn.

      Peter Pan (Before his real identity and character was revealed) - His dad, who could somehow kill Rumple if Rumple tried to kill him (that was never really explained... At all.)

      Zelena - He abandoned her, which made her crazier than she already was.

      Ingrid - Stole the ribbons she and her sisters wore, which inevitably led to Helga's death and Ingrid's inprisonment.

      Maleficent, Ursula and Cruella - Tricked them into getting trapped with Chernabog.

      Isaac - His ally. Was his ally, before the garbage deserted him (before he got arrested).

      And now Emma - His successor as the Dark One.

      The only villains whose soup he hasn't put his hands into are Jafar (though I wouldn't put it past Rumple to know Amara, who is also immortal), Anastasia (who is technically his grandstudent through Cora) and Jabberwocky.

      And what about Mr. Hyde or Facilier?

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    • Black Fairy - continuously kidnapping and torturing children, working them to death in the process, lying alot, attempting murder.

      Blind Witch (s1) - eating children.

      Captain Hook - willing to risk others lives just to have his revenge on Rumple or Emma for what she did to him, willing to have everyone sent in the underworld, breaking verbal deals with Ariel and Ursula II, selling out Bae to Malcolm, ripping out Aurora's heart out, murdering fathers of Children (especially Charming's, which still needs an ending), double crossing, lying a lot, leaving Charming under a lie about his dad and still did it in the present, and leaving Bae and Rumple under a lie about Milah's so called death (which she was involved in too).

      Cruella De Vil - Controlling Animals, murdering her fathers and mother, breaking and entering Snowing's castle to force them to help her in a threatening way,  born evil, lying alot like she did Maleficent about Lily and to Charming about why James has a grudge on him.

      Dr. Facilier - bringing terrible prices to others like Naveen, kidnapping Robert the Frog's love, murdering Hansel II.

      Evil Queen/Regina - murdering innocents, child abuse, lying alot, breaking verbal deals, orphan making, murdering Snow White's father, murdering Graham (which still needs an ending), raping Graham, Double Crossing on people like Jefferson, Sleep cursing Snow, helping Maleficent sleep curse Snow, murdering Percival's family, cutting Lily's hand for blood ink and not showing regrets for it, murdering Wish Henry's grandparents, framing cursed Snow for murder, ripping children's hearts out like on a lost boy, casting the dark curse to hurt Snow, trying to murder Emma when she was a baby, robbing the life Snow was meant to have with her daughter, involved sleep cursing Aurora, ripping people hearts out and still left them in boxes, sending people like the count or Huntsman to assasinate the Charmings.

      Gaston - double crossing, framing and trying to kill a young ogre, lying alot.

      Greg & Tamara - almost murdering everyone in Storybrooke, attempting to destroy magic, almost killed Bae and Pinocchio, kidnapping Henry, lying alot.

      Hades - murdering Robin Hood, lying alot, sending innocent souls in the river styx, attempted murder, attempting to conquer the world with the lightning bolt.

      Isaac Heller - Orphan making, making others do things against their will by the writing of his pen to alter their lives, lying alot, attempting to get others killed, trapping everyone in his book and alter their lives (before Henry erased everything).

      Jafar - trapping Agrabah in a little crystal ball, breaking the rules of magic to become more powerful, murdering people like Anastasia (before her resurrection)

      King George - murdering Charming's mother, trying to come between the Charmings, lying alot, cursing Snow to not bear a child, murdering innocents, framing Red for murder, blackmailing, forcing and threatening Charming to do what he wants him to do.

      Lady Tremaine (s6) - almost murdered Cinderella, abusive to her and her daughter, forcing her girls to do what she wants, lying alot, blackmailing. 

      Malcolm - kidnapping Henry or other children, murdering, lying alot, abandining his son in exchange to regain his youth.

      Maleficent - sleep cursing Briar Rose (which this story is left untold and unfinished), sleep cursing Aurora (bith still left as enemies and story of feud still left unfinished), breaking and entering Snowing's castle to force them to help her in a threatening way, turning Phillip into a monster, coming between Aurora and Phillip, being involved of sleep cursing Snow too.

      Mordred - trying to usurp King Arthur's throne.

      Mother Gothel - abandining her new daughter, conquering the world, destroy humanity, murder, orphan making, willing to turn Alice into a plant, raping Wish Hook and cursing his heart to keep him and Alice away from each other.

      Mr. Hyde - being spiteful to others, attempting murder, immune to magic being used against him.

      Nimue - wishes to rise from the dead with all the dark ones and have victoms take their place in the underworld, betrayed Merlin.

      Prince James - trying to murder his brother cause he claims he stole his glory, double crossing Anton and murdering his brothers.

      Queen of Hearts/Cora - Lying alot, murdering Snow's mother, murdered innocent people, force Regina to do what she wants just to take Leopold's kingdom, framing Regina for murder, murdering Daniel, lied about Lancelot's death, trying to steal from King Leopold, earn more power and become the new Dark One, ripping people's hearts out, trying to rip Snow's heart out as a gift for Regina.

      Rumplestiltskin - murder on innocents, manipulation, plan a curse to find his son (which is partially a good thing), lying alot, trickery, bringing a terrible price to others, getting someone else to do a crime of his.

      Snow Queen/Ingrid - trying to force Emma and Elsa to be her sisters, shattered cursed everyone to turn on and kill each other, lying alot, deceiving herself alot when someone like Anna speaks the truth.

      Ursula II - breaking and entering Snowing's castle to force them to help her in a threatening way, attempted murder, terrorising the seas.

      Wicked Witch of the West/Zelena - kidnapping baby Neal for her spell just after he was born, raping Robin Hood, turning people into flying monkeys, black mailing Aurora and Phillip, murdering Baelfire (which still needs an ending), leaving Hansel & Gretel to get eating by the blind witch, lying alot, sleep cursing Dorothy, trying to kill Dorothy because of her jealousy of her (which that feud story is still left unfinished), betraying the Tin Man.

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