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  • WARNING: CONTAINS SOME SPOILERS for 3x011

    1) I might be reading too much into this, but the Blue Fairy's coffin was still closed when she "resurrected".  There has to be a purpose to that (other than cost of doubling her image in the bg).  I'm thinking perhaps the Black Fairy (maybe the Wicked Witch from the March promo) was released upon Blue's death and gave them the black wand so that she could be transported back to the Enchanted Forest with them, where she is more powerful or something.  It works out too because Regina didn't go with them to retrieve the wand (understandbly so, because she wanted to reunite with Henry and get the curse), so she couldnt've helped recognize the Black Fairy.  I'm thinking that somehow the Black Fairy was trapped inside/bound to Blue Fairy's essense and was transported to StoryBrooke, unbeknownst to Regina.

    2) I'm not sure how it could kill Peter Pan o_o  Did it just behave as a normal dagger or something?  I felt like Pan could've escaped those last moments quite easily.

    3) I wonder why Hook got sent back to retrieve Emma and not Bae.  I'm thinking Bae got captured by the Wicked Witch from the promo :O  Speaking of which, I've been waiting for them to add Oz storylines xD  I am so excited for the March premier!

    4) It's probably issues with funding or the actress, but I'm sad Ruby didn't appear in this episode.  The town population definitely seemed a lot smaller haha, but I guess it makes sense that not everybody would want to or need to bid Emma & Henry farewell at the town line.

    5) I know they mentioned this in passing in a previous episode, but I'm still not sure how they cured David's nightshade poisoning.  When Killian's brother was poisoned, he died almost as soon as they left, so what was keeping David alive until he drank Rumple's cure at Granny's?

    Anyway, thanks for reading!  What were your thoughts and lingering questions after tonight's winter finale? :]

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    • BryantCabrera wrote:

      2) I'm not sure how it could kill Peter Pan o_o  Did it just behave as a normal dagger or something?  I felt like Pan could've escaped those last moments quite easily.

      The dagger has very powerful magic (being the source of the Dark One's powers) and is possibly one of the very few weapons that could kill Pan. However, I guess the price to use it in that way is the life of the current Dark One possessing it or perhaps the dagger is destroyed along with Pan which results in the DO dying.

      BryantCabrera wrote:

      5) I know they mentioned this in passing in a previous episode, but I'm still not sure how they cured David's nightshade poisoning. When Killian's brother was poisoned, he died almost as soon as they left, so what was keeping David alive until he drank Rumple's cure at Granny's?

      They took some of the magic Neverland water with them back to Storybrooke, while that could temporarily save David's life the water would eventually run out. There was one scene where Snow asks David how he was feeling and he said he was okay and that the water was working.


      Anyway, thanks for reading! What were your thoughts and lingering questions after tonight's winter finale? :]

      Some other questions I have would be: How come Neal and Hook and Tinkerbelle are taken back to EF as well? They aren't in Storybrooke/TLWM because of the curse. Why does the destruction of the curse affect them?

      Why didn't Neal leave with Emma so they could be with Henry together? The town line has no effect on him after all.

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    • for number 5, they took some magic neverland water to sustain david temporarily and Rumple had some antidote manufactured. he gave  it to david in last episode.

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    • What Rumple did with sword when he couldn't take off the Pan's cufflink that made him powerless?

      Pan beating him inside but he couldn't get out of Rumple's hold ? Weird?

      It is just me or the actor who was playing Peter Pan has grown a bit taller since we saw him earlier this season?

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    • "Villains don't have Happy ending" was superlame line used by Rumple and then Regina. It took away something from epicness of moment.

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    • 1. Uhm, I saw her coffin open in every scene it was showed...

      2. I believe this is something that will be cleared up when Rumple shows up again, I mean he's apparently not entirely dead so that'll have to be explained and I think naturally that'll explain what happened with Pan

      3. Me too :D

      4. I am too, I agree, She should have. :(

      5. Furthermore to what the others have said, when Liam took Dreamshade, he took it in its' purest form, hence why he passed out immediately and almost died on the spot. It was explained a little later, I believe in that same episode, that the Lost Boys, when tipping their arrows with it, dilute it, so that it lasts longer and kills you slower. That's why David didn't pass out on Neverland, immediately after the arrow struck him. 

      I always also assumed it made sense if that, too, was at least part of the reason for why it didn't kill him right away, as they left Neverland.

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    • TVDaddictneedstogetlife wrote:
      "Villains don't have Happy ending" was superlame line used by Rumple and then Regina. It took away something from epicness of moment.

      I disagree. It took me back to Season One and felt very Season-One-esque to me. I loved it.

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    • Toma Cre wrote:

      Some other questions I have would be: How come Neal and Hook and Tinkerbelle are taken back to EF as well? They aren't in Storybrooke/TLWM because of the curse. Why does the destruction of the curse affect them?

      Why didn't Neal leave with Emma so they could be with Henry together? The town line has no effect on him after all.

      Neal, Hook, and Tink are taken back for the simple reason that they are in LWM and they are from elsewhere. 

      You make a good point, although if he had gone with them, it wouldn't have ended well. Think about it: Emma's gonna forget about all of them and everything from since she drove up to Storybrooke, so she's gonna forget her and Neal reuniting and all the work they'd done on their relationship since, and as they're driving away to boot. So for him to suddenly appear in the damn car like that after her not seeing him since, well, that night where she got arrested ('cuz that's how it would be for her)...it wouldn't end well XD 

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    • I can't believe they killed Rumplestiltskin :( what was he doing, though, before he "died?" He was doing something with the sword, and his arm… what was that about?

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    • ^^ He app had to chop his hand off to free himself from the bracelet.

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    • ^ yeah thats what I thought but then he had magic didn't he when he was talking to Pan? Why Rumple had to die with Pan ? I didn't get it. Although I am 110% sure Rumple's death won't stick only Pan's will.

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    • Why didn't Pan kill Rumplestilskin and get him out of his way? He wanted to be free of him.Isn't it?

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    • Why does Rumple had to die to kill Pan ?

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    • BryantCabrera wrote:

      3) I wonder why Hook got sent back to retrieve Emma and not Bae.  I'm thinking Bae got captured by the Wicked Witch from the promo :.

      That's a good theory. The show has still hasn't said how much of her real past Emma remembers. In the new reality she remembers, did she go to jail? Does she remember Neal at all? If so, having Neal come back could complicate things as she would only remember him as her babydaddy that set her up and sent her to jail. They might have thought that Hook, as a complete stranger, would have a better chance of bringing Emma around. 

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    • Going forward, it will interesting to see where the show goes. There's almost a clean break from everything so far. Storybrooke is gone. Regina and Rumple redeemed themselves and pretty much righted the wrongs they did. Even Hook ended up being a good guy. Rumple is dead. The characters' back stories have pretty much been told. The only thing left unresolved is Emma and Henry being seperated from the rest of their family. 

      For the first time we are left with really no idea of what's going to happen. Sure Emma and Henry need to remember. They'll have a hard time not making this next season a repeat of the first season where Emma had to learn to "believe". There's also the Regina and Robin Hood thing they could go into. Maybe they'll bring Rumple back. I'm conflicted there because I have a hard time imagining the show without him but the producers have been firm about not bringing people back from the dead as it "cheapens" their death. I know they brought Blue back but Gold's death was suppose to mean something like Graham's and Cora's so if they bring him back it will have to be in a way that doesn't cheapen his sacrifice. I also imagine them going to Neverland and finding it run by a de-aged Greg as a new Peter Pan since he died by having his shadow ripped out like Blue did.

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    • What happens to Storybrook residents? Ruby, Ariel, Tink, Whale, rest of them? In the promo we can see only those who were in front of the border...

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    • Arctucrus wrote:
      Toma Cre wrote:

      Some other questions I have would be: How come Neal and Hook and Tinkerbelle are taken back to EF as well? They aren't in Storybrooke/TLWM because of the curse. Why does the destruction of the curse affect them?

      Why didn't Neal leave with Emma so they could be with Henry together? The town line has no effect on him after all.

      Neal, Hook, and Tink are taken back for the simple reason that they are in LWM and they are from elsewhere. 

      And while Hook, Tink, Neal and Ariel weren't victims of the first curse, they *were* intended to be victims of the second curse. They had to go back to avoid it. Only Emma had an escape clause.

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    • Mtensmey wrote:
      BryantCabrera wrote:

      3) I wonder why Hook got sent back to retrieve Emma and not Bae.  I'm thinking Bae got captured by the Wicked Witch from the promo :.

      That's a good theory. The show has still hasn't said how much of her real past Emma remembers. In the new reality she remembers, did she go to jail? Does she remember Neal at all? If so, having Neal come back could complicate things as she would only remember him as her babydaddy that set her up and sent her to jail. They might have thought that Hook, as a complete stranger, would have a better chance of bringing Emma around. 

      She remembers everything but Storybrooke, that was clear I believe. She would remember Neal, which is probably why he didn't leave with her in her car: She'd have forgotten everything since before they ran into each other again, so to her it'd be like he just appeared in the car. That wouldn't end well.

      I imagine the same thing would happen, like you said, if they sent Neal back. It wouldn't have the best chance of going well. However, if it were me, I wouldn't have sent Hook, either, because he has a strong bias. I would've sent someone who didn't know Emma too too well, and could hold back their feelings and work things better, kind of like August did the first time around. 

      Might not be a bad way to introduce a new character O.o

      HOWEVER. Everything I've said up to this point is assuming that there is a "they" that chose to send someone back. I personally don't think so. Based on when Hook appears again, I think he found his way to the LWM of his own accord to help Emma because her parents are in trouble. He may have let people know but I don't think there's a "they" that sat down and said, "OK, who is it going to be?"

      On the other hand of as far as it being Hook and not someone else, if Hook is Emma's true love, and he manages to make her fall for him, and they share a kiss, it being Hook instead of someone else has the advantage of potentially bypassing having to pull an August to make Emma believe again, and her just getting her memories back because true loves' kiss can break any Curse.

      My personal opinion though, is that they should never give Emma a true love. That should be left open. Snow and Charming are true loves, Belle and Rumple, Robin and Regina, great great. With Emma though, I just feel it would be better if the show never clarified who hers was.

      So, yeah. That's that.

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    • my dumb question, if everyone went back to where they were, how did hook manage to find them after a yr? coz he went back to mourning Milah, hating rumple and hating-loving baelfire. How did he end up remembering Emma? or since Emma is the curse breaker, officially, so again another OUAT book was created and this time it landed in the jolly roger.

      Guess we wait till march to figure it out.

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    • Rubelle wrote:
      my dumb question, if everyone went back to where they were, how did hook manage to find them after a yr? coz he went back to mourning Milah, hating rumple and hating-loving baelfire. How did he end up remembering Emma? or since Emma is the curse breaker, officially, so again another OUAT book was created and this time it landed in the jolly roger.

      Guess we wait till march to figure it out.

      Nonononononono they went back to where they were physically but everyone other than Emma and Henry will remember Storybrooke and everything.

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    • Arctucrus wrote:

      She remembers everything but Storybrooke, that was clear I believe. She would remember Neal, which is probably why he didn't leave with her in her car: She'd have forgotten everything since before they ran into each other again, so to her it'd be like he just appeared in the car. That wouldn't end well.

      I am not so sure, Emma remembers Neal. If she does, then he is in major trouble.

      Regina gave Emma and Henry, happy memories. Part of Emma's pain, came from being betrayed by Neal. So, I would imagine, that Regina "rewrote" Henry's conception.

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    • I really liked the flashback format, with different flashbacks used as necessary.

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    • August Booth wrote:
      I really liked the flashback format, with different flashbacks used as necessary.

      Yeah! I thought that was cool!

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    • Regina could have included Neal in the rewritten memories if he was going with Emma and Henry. But that couldn't happen because he was an intended victim of the second curse, and had to return to the Enchanted Forest with the reversal of both curses.

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    • So which boy was Rumple's undoing? Pan ?

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    • TVDaddictneedstogetlife wrote:
      So which boy was Rumple's undoing? Pan ?

      I think, "the boy" is actually Rumplestiltskin, himself. 

      If you look closely, at their death  scene, Mr. Gold kisses Malcolm. At that moment, he was that little boy who craved his father's love.

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    • Well, Henry (the boy who led Gold to his son) did set in motion the whole chain of events that led to this outcome. But who knows, maybe the prophecy isn't fulfilled yet?

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    • How come Regina didn't get a fairy tale flashback? I heard it was supposed to show her father/Valet in the episode but it wasn't shown. It probably would have been an extended scene to the part before she ripped his heart and maybe actually have shown his heart since it wasn't seen in the episode.

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    • TVDaddictneedstogetlife wrote:
      Why does Rumple had to die to kill Pan ?

      Rumplestiltskin had to die because his shadow went into his body and Pan's at the same time. So when he used the DO's dagger to kill himself, Pan died too because Rumple's Shadow was also in his body. At least that's what I have seen. 

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    • Black3White wrote:
      TVDaddictneedstogetlife wrote:
      Why does Rumple had to die to kill Pan ?
      Rumplestiltskin had to die because his shadow went into his body and Pan's at the same time. So when he used the DO's dagger to kill himself, Pan died too because Rumple's Shadow was also in his body. At least that's what I have seen. 

      That's not what I got outta that scene at all... :|

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    • Arctucrus wrote:
      Black3White wrote:
      TVDaddictneedstogetlife wrote:
      Why does Rumple had to die to kill Pan ?
      Rumplestiltskin had to die because his shadow went into his body and Pan's at the same time. So when he used the DO's dagger to kill himself, Pan died too because Rumple's Shadow was also in his body. At least that's what I have seen. 
      That's not what I got outta that scene at all...
      |

      Rewatch the scene and pay attention to where does the shadow go after giving Rumple the dagger ...

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    • Black3White wrote:
      Arctucrus wrote:
      Black3White wrote:
      TVDaddictneedstogetlife wrote:
      Why does Rumple had to die to kill Pan ?
      Rumplestiltskin had to die because his shadow went into his body and Pan's at the same time. So when he used the DO's dagger to kill himself, Pan died too because Rumple's Shadow was also in his body. At least that's what I have seen. 
      That's not what I got outta that scene at all...:|
      Rewatch the scene and pay attention to where does the shadow go after giving Rumple the dagger ...

      [[1]]

      min 1:49 ...

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      TVDaddictneedstogetlife wrote:
      So which boy was Rumple's undoing? Pan ?
      I think, "the boy" is actually Rumplestiltskin, himself. 

      If you look closely, at their death  scene, Mr. Gold kisses Malcolm. At that moment, he was that little boy who craved his father's love.

      Vow! Your reply brought tears in my eyes. That scene was very heartbreaking. Please excuse me I have to go to corner and weep.:*(

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    • Noneofyourbusiness wrote:
      Well, Henry (the boy who led Gold to his son) did set in motion the whole chain of events that led to this outcome. But who knows, maybe the prophecy isn't fulfilled yet?

      I have to admit this show is not good at storytelling and many logics are left for imagination and self interpretation. This can't be done for all. I guess they will catch up on it later.

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    • Black3White wrote:
      TVDaddictneedstogetlife wrote:
      Why does Rumple had to die to kill Pan ?
      Rumplestiltskin had to die because his shadow went into his body and Pan's at the same time. So when he used the DO's dagger to kill himself, Pan died too because Rumple's Shadow was also in his body. At least that's what I have seen. 

      Yes you are right about it has something to do with shadow that slipped into Rumple after giving dagger but what was the significance of not having shadow or having it? I am confused and I know this hasn't been touched before except we saw Rumple did let go of his shadow with dagger and entered skull rock because he didn't cast shadow. Other than that I cannot find this knowledge relevant enough to comprehend how both needed to die to kill Pan. I think only Rumples shadow went inside not Pans.

      P.S. I did feel slightly bad when they showed kid Pan got stabbed although they shpwed older self died but it was disturbing to watch kid in pain (acting and all)

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    • TVDaddictneedstogetlife wrote:
      Black3White wrote:
      TVDaddictneedstogetlife wrote:
      Why does Rumple had to die to kill Pan ?
      Rumplestiltskin had to die because his shadow went into his body and Pan's at the same time. So when he used the DO's dagger to kill himself, Pan died too because Rumple's Shadow was also in his body. At least that's what I have seen. 
      Yes you are right about it has something to do with shadow that slipped into Rumple after giving dagger but what was the significance of not having shadow or having it? I am confused and I know this hasn't been touched before except we saw Rumple did let go of his shadow with dagger and entered skull rock because he didn't cast shadow. Other than that I cannot find this knowledge relevant enough to comprehend how both needed to die to kill Pan. I think only Rumples shadow went inside not Pans.

      P.S. I did feel slightly bad when they showed kid Pan got stabbed although they shpwed older self died but it was disturbing to watch kid in pain (acting and all)

      Since Pan's body had no soul, Rumple's went into them bodies (both of them) That's why they were so close to eachother and Pan couldn't get rid off Rumple ... And then when he killed Pan, the fact that Rumple's shadow was connecting both bodies, he ends up being killed too because the DO's dagger is the only weapon that can kill him. That's why he said (The only way for you to die, is if we both die).


      I can't garantee that is the real thing that happened but I that's what I get from that scene.

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    • I can't wait for march. If I had a time-machine I would gladly skip christmas and my birthday just to watch the next episode ^.^

      I'm really curious for "the new Enchanted Forest", has Regina finally redeemed herself to the people she brought to Storybrooke and can start a new live there? How will she interact with her former victims? Most of all Snow White? I would totally love to see them becoming closer again, as we have seen in some flashbacks. After all Regina could make a great advisor to the royal couple and with her ability to ignore moral if needed and her knowledge of Dark Magic (with Rumple gone I think it is save to say she is the mightiest wielder of Dark Magic in the Enchanted Forest) she could be a very worthy ally when the Wicked Witch invades. After 1 1/2 seasons stumbling the path of redemption I can't see her becoming a villain again. After all Robin Hood is in the EF and as we all heard yesterday "villains don't get a Happy Ending".

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    • Black3White wrote:
      TVDaddictneedstogetlife wrote:
      Black3White wrote:
      TVDaddictneedstogetlife wrote:
      Why does Rumple had to die to kill Pan ?
      Rumplestiltskin had to die because his shadow went into his body and Pan's at the same time. So when he used the DO's dagger to kill himself, Pan died too because Rumple's Shadow was also in his body. At least that's what I have seen. 
      Yes you are right about it has something to do with shadow that slipped into Rumple after giving dagger but what was the significance of not having shadow or having it? I am confused and I know this hasn't been touched before except we saw Rumple did let go of his shadow with dagger and entered skull rock because he didn't cast shadow. Other than that I cannot find this knowledge relevant enough to comprehend how both needed to die to kill Pan. I think only Rumples shadow went inside not Pans.

      P.S. I did feel slightly bad when they showed kid Pan got stabbed although they shpwed older self died but it was disturbing to watch kid in pain (acting and all)

      Since Pan's body had no soul, Rumple's went into them bodies (both of them) That's why they were so close to eachother and Pan couldn't get rid off Rumple ... And then when he killed Pan, the fact that Rumple's shadow was connecting both bodies, he ends up being killed too because the DO's dagger is the only weapon that can kill him. That's why he said (The only way for you to die, is if we both die).


      I can't garantee that is the real thing that happened but I that's what I get from that scene.


      Your explaination make perfect sense. It also solved my other confusion about why Pan couldn't escape from Rumple's hold. Thank You  :)

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    • I think Gold was about to cut off his hand so he could have magic back (it would have made a parallel with Hook mentioning losing it earlier on), then changed his mind and decided to sacrifice himself instead. It's consistent with his new, braver self. And I agree with the shadow theory above, it makes sense.

      The thing that bugged me the most was the Blue Fairy resurrecting. Like, third "fake" death in three seasons, it's starting to get annoying. Also, I don't understand why the other nuns run away scared. Aren't you fairies, for f***'s sake? Fight the hell back!

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    • GothicNarcissus wrote:

      Also, I don't understand why the other nuns run away scared. Aren't you fairies, for f***'s sake? Fight the hell back!

      Yeah, those fairies are very ... how should I say it ... COWARDS xD

      But if you think they just watched their Queen "being killed" by the Shadow ... So if the Most Powerful Fairy couldn't escape ... Well they were scared the same happened with them :P

      And not all of them had spent some time in the Island of Fears aka Neverland like Tink did ;)

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    • Thanks for clearing that up up there guys, makes a ;lot more sense to me now haha >.<

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    • Thanks for clearing that up up there guys, makes a ;lot more sense to me now haha >.<

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    • I'm going to have to watch this episode again, too much to take in. Did anyone else catch the "23" over Emma's hospital bed?

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    • Arctucrus wrote:
      TVDaddictneedstogetlife wrote:
      "Villains don't have Happy ending" was superlame line used by Rumple and then Regina. It took away something from epicness of moment.
      I disagree. It took me back to Season One and felt very Season-One-esque to me. I loved it.

      And that's when I bawled my eyes out. NO matter what, Rumple still loves his dad as he gave him a peck. 

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    • Teehee.heehee.9 wrote:
      Arctucrus wrote:
      TVDaddictneedstogetlife wrote:
      "Villains don't have Happy ending" was superlame line used by Rumple and then Regina. It took away something from epicness of moment.
      I disagree. It took me back to Season One and felt very Season-One-esque to me. I loved it.
      And that's when I bawled my eyes out. NO matter what, Rumple still loves his dad as he gave him a peck. 

      So true, I agree. That was heartbreaking

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    • Two things:

      1. As far as why Ruby hasn't been in any episodes this season, that is completly due to the actress deciding she wanted a bigger role, which Intelligence (airing on CBS starting in January) can provide her. If she has time and there is an episode that will prominently feature her, and/or Intelligence bombs, she will be back.

      2. I know there is another thread discussing this, so maybe it's not why it's being talked about here, but the biggest thing that is confusing me is the whole what exists/what doesn't and where is everybody. The episode shows everyone currently in Storybrooke getting returned to present day Enchanted Forest, but keeping all their memories, with the exception of Emma and Henry, who's memories are changed so that Emma never gave Henry up in the first place. Storybrooke is appearently turned back into the forest it originally was. One year later, Hook shows up, somehow getting back to the World Without Magic, and tells Emma (who of course can't remember him), everybodies in trouble. I understand all that, here's where it gets confusing, in previews we've seen both everybody who was transported back in the Enchanted Forest, and people (including people who were never their before) back in Storybrooke, which is back to normal. The only explination I can think of is the Wicked Witch of the West casted some kind of Copycat Curse of Regina's Curse (It can't be Regina's Curse because that scroll was destroyed, right?). But Hook escaped it some how? IDK. Needless to say, if I'm correct, then only Hook and Wicked Witch (and maybe Rumple, I'm 99.9% sure he's not actually dead) have their real memories, and everybody, including people who weren't cursed before (Phillip, Aurora, Mulan, Robin), plus Emma and Henry need their memories restored. That's the best I can come up with at any rate, I guess we'll find out how right that is in March.

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    • I don't think the shadow had anything to do with it. Well, maybe that's why Pan didn't break away from Rumple. It was said several times earlier in the season that the only way Rumple could kill Pan would be for him to die too. This wasn't elaborated on or explained and I'll concede it's possible Rumple might have meant he wouldn't survive mortal combat with Pan. Remember, he was willing to give up his life when he thought Neal was dead (he felt he had fialed and had nothing to live for now) but was more conflicted when he discovered Neal was alive. That's when Neal suggested Squid Ink and then Rumple and Regina tried Pandora's Box as those were non-lethal ways to get rid of Pan that wouldn't require sacrificing a life.

      I'm thinking that decided not to cut off his hand and use magic to solve his problems again since using magic doesn't actually solve problems. In this case Pan would always be a threat to his family, recently expanded, as long as he was alive. Therefore Rumple made the choice to kill Pan and in the process he would be killing himself. That's why he had to use the dagger. If Rumple didn't die, Pan wouldn't either. 

      That was the beauty of the episode, it brought things full circle with Rumple and Regina finally owning up to what they've done wrong and sacrificing self for those they loved because they wanted their loved ones to be happy and for the first times not treating their loved ones as objects to make themselves feel happy. Hook turned out to be a good guy too. 

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    • Arctucrus wrote:
      1. Uhm, I saw her coffin open in every scene it was showed...

      I am referring to the specific scene when she is "resurrected".  The coffin is open in many other scenes, but in this scene, I believe it is closed in the bg^^

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    • Wasn't it weird that Pan had come to kill Bae but instead he stood there and let Rumplestilskin finish his speech? If you have intentions to kill someone kill them. Don't just stand there and watch.

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    • Mtensmey wrote:
      I don't think the shadow had anything to do with it. Well, maybe that's why Pan didn't break away from Rumple. It was said several times earlier in the season that the only way Rumple could kill Pan would be for him to die too. This wasn't elaborated on or explained and I'll concede it's possible Rumple might have meant he wouldn't survive mortal combat with Pan.

      Rumple wouldn't have survived mortal combat with Pan and yet Pan wasn't strong enough to break away from Rumple . Do you see the contradiction of your statement?  

      In a scene 3x11, when Pan wakes up in his body he said" I thought you would have killed me in my sleep laddie.." It means if Rumple wanted he could kill him in sleep. Since in the end Rumple has no magic he did use power of shadow to kill Pan otherwise Pan's magic was too powerful and he could easily breakaway from Rumple .But I agree the storytelling bit needed more elaboration on the lines why Rumple had to die with Pan.

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    • TVDaddictneedstogetlife wrote:
      Why does Rumple had to die to kill Pan ?

      http://youtu.be/x8w95xIdH4o?t=22s

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    • XxBadWolfxX wrote:
      TVDaddictneedstogetlife wrote:
      Why does Rumple had to die to kill Pan ?
      http://youtu.be/x8w95xIdH4o?t=22s

      LOL Sweet!

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    • I'm hoping this is still the prophecy unfulfilled. The boy will be your undoing, perhaps Henry is still 'the boy' and once he regains his memories, he can un-do Gold's death. Oh please let it be something like that, I am having a hard time picturing OUaT without Rumple! I guess I will settle for flashbacks if he truly can't come back from this but....it's not the same *weeping*

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    • Have you all understood why Peter Pan hated Rumple so much? Because I haven't.

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    • he said it so himself, just after he wakes up from sleep and rumple and he has a heart to heart talk.

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    • Rubelle wrote:
      he said it so himself, just after he wakes up from sleep and rumple and he has a heart to heart talk.

      That baby Rumple took his years in responsibility to look after his son?  If Pan had got the DO dagger I bet he would've killed his son.

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    • BryantCabrera wrote:

      3) I wonder why Hook got sent back to retrieve Emma and not Bae.  I'm thinking Bae got captured by the Wicked Witch from the promo :O  Speaking of which, I've been waiting for them to add Oz storylines xD  I am so excited for the March premier!


      I think Hook came on his own volition in a way. Like "bad stuff" is going down in the EF, and he knows about it, he loves Emma so he was hoping that the "power of true love's kiss" would break the false memories. But she didn't love him back so it didn't work.  I think its just his love for Emma that made him go, he wanted to see her again.

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    • TVDaddictneedstogetlife wrote:
      Have you all understood why Peter Pan hated Rumple so much? Because I haven't.

      I sensed it was because he's a selfish man, who never wanted a kid. His wife got pregnant, and from that day forward he had no paternal instinct toward the child, it just cut into his gambling/drinking money.  There is that one scene where he talks about how Rumple has been taking from him since the minute he was born.

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    • What, exactly, was the significance of Rumplestiltskin's and Peter Pan's not having shadows and of Rumplestiltskin's "suicide" in order to kill Peter Pan? Before both dying, Mr. Gold explains he doesn't have a shadow… and then sends for his dagger which he uses to kill Peter Pan and himself. Why did he have to kill himself, as well? I don't think it was made very clear. Also, if you look closely during the scene, Mr. Gold stabs Peter Pan in the back, how does it exactly kill him, too?

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    • Peter has no soul and no shadow, so he cannot be killed. Rumple's shadow and soul enters peters' body through back and that is why Peter could not escape Rumple's clutches. When Rumple stabs and kills peter, he stabs his own shadow as well thus apparantly killing himself. I use app because it is entirely possible he is not dead and we will find that out in march.

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    • Rubelle wrote: Peter has no soul and no shadow, so he cannot be killed. Rumple's shadow and soul enters peters' body through back and that is why Peter could not escape Rumple's clutches. When Rumple stabs and kills peter, he stabs his own shadow as well thus apparantly killing himself. I use app because it is entirely possible he is not dead and we will find that out in march.

      Are you sure that Rumple's shadow enters Peter Pan's body? From the scene, it looks as if it enters his own…

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    • I was wondering if Archie would now be a cricket again or his natural self. 

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    • Gusey1397 wrote:
      I was wondering if Archie would now be a cricket again or his natural self. 

      I would say, he reverts back into a cricket.

      Jiminy Cricket, the Blue Fairy, and Tinker Bell are the only characters missing, when they crash-land on Aurora and Phillip.... probably due to unfinished cgi.

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    • Rubelle wrote:
      Peter has no soul and no shadow, so he cannot be killed. Rumple's shadow and soul enters peters' body through back and that is why Peter could not escape Rumple's clutches. When Rumple stabs and kills peter, he stabs his own shadow as well thus apparantly killing himself. I use app because it is entirely possible he is not dead and we will find that out in march.

      I like this.  It's how I viewed the scene, too.

      Rumple will be alive in the secon half of the season, whenever they decide to reveal it.  I feel like they'll chalk it up to the "boy being his undoing".  I had always thought it'd be Henry to undo the DO.  But now I'm leaning towards the boy being Pan.  To undo the DO.  So the DO will be dead (the dagger was used, afterall) and Rumple will be alive and well, ready to live on the next, honorable phase of his life.

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    • When they go back and events start to happen will it be written under their Storybrooke pages or fairytale pages? Example if something happens to Snow White and Prince Charming will it be written under Mary Margaret and David Nolan or Snow and Charming? Since they're back in the Enchanted Forest and not in Storybrooke anymore.

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    • FanoftheMagicMirror wrote:
      When they go back and events start to happen will it be written under their Storybrooke pages or fairytale pages? Example if something happens to Snow White and Prince Charming will it be written under Mary Margaret and David Nolan or Snow and Charming? Since they're back in the Enchanted Forest and not in Storybrooke anymore.

      Since the curse is reversed, it's now Snow White and Prince Charming, and not MM and David. So all summaries for future episodes for their duration in the Enchanted Forest will definitely be written in under their EF counterpart pages rather than their SB counterpart pages.

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    • Nlosborne wrote:

      Rubelle wrote: Peter has no soul and no shadow, so he cannot be killed. Rumple's shadow and soul enters peters' body through back and that is why Peter could not escape Rumple's clutches. When Rumple stabs and kills peter, he stabs his own shadow as well thus apparantly killing himself. I use app because it is entirely possible he is not dead and we will find that out in march.

      Are you sure that Rumple's shadow enters Peter Pan's body? From the scene, it looks as if it enters his own…

      I got this from a youtube comment. I wanted to post it here because its very interesting O:


       Watch the scene closely. He and Pan are in an embrace when he skewers Pan. Because of the close embrace, the dagger goes through Pan and into Rumpel too. And this transfers the Dark One's power to Pan, which turns him old again. Since the Dark One is killing both himself and the next Dark One to be, the cycle is broken and both of them disintegrate into light and die. This was Rumpel's plan to kill Pan all along, and also his "undoing" that the prophecy spoke of. 

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    • It just crossed my mind, now that Regina's curse is undone, what about that void in her heart that Rumple and Malificent mentioned in Season One? Is that undone, too?

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    • Lianvis wrote: It just crossed my mind, now that Regina's curse is undone, what about that void in her heart that Rumple and Malificent mentioned in Season One? Is that undone, too?

      Is Regina's father, Henry, still dead?

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    • Nlosborne wrote:

      Is Regina's father, Henry, still dead?

      Yes.... Regina's father is still dead. As is, her mother, Graham, and everyone else who died. Regina did not change the past, when she undid the Dark Curse. She only altered Emma's and Herny's memories, so they could lead a normal life.

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    • Lianvis wrote:
      It just crossed my mind, now that Regina's curse is undone, what about that void in her heart that Rumple and Malificent mentioned in Season One? Is that undone, too?


      Kitsis and Horowitz said in a podcast/interview that the hole was filled when she chose to help Henry above all else in "A Land Without Magic" and it led to the breaking of her curse.

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    • Noneofyourbusiness wrote:
      Lianvis wrote:
      It just crossed my mind, now that Regina's curse is undone, what about that void in her heart that Rumple and Malificent mentioned in Season One? Is that undone, too?

      Kitsis and Horowitz said in a podcast/interview that the hole was filled when she chose to help Henry above all else in "A Land Without Magic" and it led to the breaking of her curse.

      Oh interesting. I didn't know that. Thanks for mentioning it!

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    • You're welcome!

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    • Ah, perfect!

      Thank you very much @Noneofyourbusiness

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    • I believe this episode would be better if the name were "Undoing." This episode saw the undoing of Peter Pan, the undoing of his new curse, the ultimate undoing of Regina's curse, the undoing of Emma's and Henry's memories, and the undoing of Rumplestiltskin… I think "Undoing" would be better :D

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    • Nlosborne wrote:
      I believe this episode would be better if the name were "Undoing." This episode saw the undoing of Peter Pan, the undoing of his new curse, the ultimate undoing of Regina's curse, the undoing of Emma's and Henry's memories, and the undoing of Rumplestiltskin… I think "Undoing" would be better :D

      That sounds ugly though...I prefer "Going Home" XD

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    • Nlosborne wrote:
      I believe this episode would be better if the name were "Undoing." This episode saw the undoing of Peter Pan, the undoing of his new curse, the ultimate undoing of Regina's curse, the undoing of Emma's and Henry's memories, and the undoing of Rumplestiltskin… I think "Undoing" would be better :D

      What was the difference between Regina's original curse and Pan's curse ? Wasn't it all bout removing memories and form storybrooke. Sorry i'm under curse of my own bad memory lol.  Can anyone fill me the difference between two curses? Thanks in advance.

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    • The first one transported everyone to Storybrooke and wiped their memories. The second took them back to the Enchanted Forest but they kept their memories and it took everyone back to where they came from. Regina removed Emma and Henry's memories so they could live a happy life.

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    • Right. The curse is up to the design of the one who casts it. Pan's was suppose to be

      like a new Neverland for kids where I reckon he turns all adults into his slaves and makes them suffer greatly.

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    • Molotovzav wrote:
      BryantCabrera wrote:
      3) I wonder why Hook got sent back to retrieve Emma and not Bae.  I'm thinking Bae got captured by the Wicked Witch from the promo :O  Speaking of which, I've been waiting for them to add Oz storylines xD  I am so excited for the March premier!


      I think Hook came on his own volition in a way. Like "bad stuff" is going down in the EF, and he knows about it, he loves Emma so he was hoping that the "power of true love's kiss" would break the false memories. But she didn't love him back so it didn't work.  I think its just his love for Emma that made him go, he wanted to see her again.

      Just saying but true loves kiss doesn't work when they other person doesn't remember them. Look at Snow and Charming. Snow drank a potion spelled to forget Charming and when Charming tired to break said spell it didn't work because she didn't know him, Hook isn't actually from Neverland he just ends up there for most of the flashbacks he is in, so I think it is safe to assume he is from the Enchanted Forest and knows what is going on there and how Emma's parent are in trouble. Sure he would probably want to see Emma again but I think since they all (The Charmings, Regina, Neal, Emma, Henry and Hook) went on this epic adventure in the first half of the season Hook now considers them friends or at least allies. Therefore he would be concerned about The Charmings safety and try to get "The Saviours" help in the matter.

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    • A Spy in the Mirror
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