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  • I was quite fascinated after watching Bad blood episode, that people from Victorian England world practices The Prayer Before a Meal that some Christians, in the Land without Magic, knew. Furthermore, in Land without Color, Christmas is celebrated (as seen in The Doctor). It is also interesting that the wedding of Snow and PC is officiated by seemingly a church official that looks like a Real world Christian leader.

    The question is: how did Christianity reached them?

    My theory is that some inhabitants could have come from the Land Without Magic and have spread any known religion to those realms. What are your thoughts?

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    • Why would Christianity need to reach them? Since it's a religion that's been around a long time, I'd think it would have always been part of all the realms. 

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    • Christmas as we know today, wasn't that originally a pagan festival?

      Any marriage in any religion is usually officiated by a priest.

      but yeah if you call visual representation, then yes since the makers, and majority of the viewers would be able to relate to the representation of certain events if the common practise for them is shown. I think thats the reason such customs r used and not for any religious significance as such.

      Could we keep religion out of this please? 

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    • I have thought about that too

      I think it's interesting to discuss what kind of religion fairytales may have

      I think that the priest that we saw in Pilot its just a representation of the weddings showed in early disney films like snow white, cinderella and the sleeping beauty, these films were inspired by european tales where christianity played an important role so the concept of marriage is tied with that of christianity. It's not a promotion of religion just a common representation of a wedding.

      The Enchanted Forest have its own deities and traditions, for example we know Ursula is a the Sea Goddess, even in Lake Nostos people pay tributes somehow like a religion. Lancelot married Snow and Charming the Camelot Way with a Cup (a reference to the Holy Grial) so every kingdom has its own way to represent faith, it doesn't matter if it looks like a christian wedding, it's not a promotion of the religion just a representation of common traditions, maybe just as way to relate to the life of the characters of every realm, world or kingdom.

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    • I really like that christianity is being shown on the shows [both once & the spin off] I would find it creepy for them not to celebrate Christmas or have a wedding without a priest.

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    • Ruby ridinghood wrote:
      I really like that christianity is being shown on the shows [both once & the spin off] I would find it creepy for them not to celebrate Christmas or have a wedding without a priest.

      Weddings occur without priests everyday, and millions of people don't celebrate Christmas...

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    • Why does it surprise you that religion is similar in a world were almost everything is the same as in the Land Without Magic? XD I mean, London is called London, the Bethlem Asylum also exists in the LWM, there's the Big Ben. It seems like it's almost exactly the same as LWM's Victorian England. Why would religion be any different in a parallel universe where almost everything is similar?

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    • Killian Jones wrote:
      Why does it surprise you that religion is similar in a world were almost everything is the same as in the Land Without Magic? XD I mean, London is called London, the Bethlem Asylum also exists in the LWM, there's the Big Ben. It seems like it's almost exactly the same as LWM's Victorian England. Why would religion be any different in a parallel universe where almost everything is similar?

      I'm not sure why someone would be suprised either. bunches of people all over the world celebrate Christmas.  Jefferson even knew about the civil war, so I'm not suprised they would know about other stuff from our world.

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    • I think if they put an LGBT character (Mulan, I think) then they can put religion.

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    • Budloopy4 wrote: I think if they put an LGBT character (Mulan, I think) then they can put religion.

      lolwut?

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    • Utter solitude wrote:

      lolwut?

      i think Budloopy4 meant that if writers took the liberty to make Mulan bisexual they can take any liberties about religion in the show.

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    • Rinkai wrote: i think Budloopy4 meant that if writers took the liberty to make Mulan bisexual they can take any liberties about religion in the show.

      They already have religion in the show.

      What, since there's a lesbian/bisexual, we need to balance that out with some good 'ole Jesus? XD

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    • Utter solitude wrote:

      Rinkai wrote: i think Budloopy4 meant that if writers took the liberty to make Mulan bisexual they can take any liberties about religion in the show.

      They already have religion in the show.

      What, since there's a lesbian/bisexual, we need to balance that out with some good 'ole Jesus? XD

      Lol :P Seriously though, I think you're overreading it, that's not what I got at all. I read something more along the lines of, "If the writers are going to go as far as to include LGBT character(s), then it's in no way surprising to me that they'll include religion." The two aren't related-they're just two separate things that both exist in our world, that he considers, if one is a part of the show, it's no surprise the writers include this other one, as well.

      Just saying that they're both things that exist, and that if one isn't a stretch, it's no surprise the other one is, either.

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    • I was making a joke, dearie :D

      Should have been clearer about it lol

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    • well if they are mixing fairy tales and religion ...are we gonna see Santa Claus any time soon ?? lol

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    • Well, people in the Enchanted Forest are clearly polytheists. There have been several mention of the "gods", and we've even seen one – Ursula. Although I think they're more of a folkloristic thing than an actual religion, as I've never seen one of them really praying (I might be wrong, though).

      As for Victorian England, bigotry was one of the most prominent traits of the real-world Victorian society, so no wonder Alice's father is a very religious man.

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    • GothicNarcissus wrote: Well, people in the Enchanted Forest are clearly polytheists. There have been several mention of the "gods", and we've even seen one – Ursula. Although I think they're more of a folkloristic thing than an actual religion, as I've never seen one of them really praying (I might be wrong, though).

      Camelot. I need to rewatch the episode, but didn't Lancelot evoke the Christian God in some way when he married Snow and David? Besides, the Knights of the Round Table were hugely religious, so Christianity is clearly in the EF, at least in my view.

      Our world has many religions, it stands to reason that theirs does too.

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    • Utter solitude wrote:

      Camelot. I need to rewatch the episode, but didn't Lancelot evoke the Christian God in some way when he married Snow and David? Besides, the Knights of the Round Table were hugely religious, so Christianity is clearly in the EF, at least in my view.


      Lancelot even made a reference to the Holy Grail while marring Snow and Charming, and people called him Leviatan which is a monster that appears in the old testament.

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    • GothicNarcissus wrote:
      Well, people in the Enchanted Forest are clearly polytheists. There have been several mention of the "gods", and we've even seen one – Ursula. Although I think they're more of a folkloristic thing than an actual religion, as I've never seen one of them really praying (I might be wrong, though).

      As for Victorian England, bigotry was one of the most prominent traits of the real-world Victorian society, so no wonder Alice's father is a very religious man.

      What does bigotry have to do with being religious? Being a bigot and being religious is in no way the same thing.

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    • I feel, Religion got to other realms from the same way as fairy tales got to our land. 

      Realm travelers from EF. Since they have realm jumping capabilities and magical items to do so.

      Something Jack Sparrow said in POTC. When another pirate said something about no survivors, Jack said "Where did the stories come from?" (summin like that) 

      So yeah.. story tellers. I think it is from realm-jumpers who bought us the fairy tales

      and then in return,bought other worlds our stories. They may even have bought bibles.

      So yeah, realm travelers. Just like Mushu xDDDDD 

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    • XxBadWolfxX wrote: I feel, Religion got to other realms from the same way as fairy tales got to our land. 

      Realm travelers from EF. Since they have realm jumping capabilities and magical items to do so.

      Something Jack Sparrow said in POTC. When another pirate said something about no survivors, Jack said "Where did the stories come from?" (summin like that) 

      So yeah.. story tellers. I think it is from realm-jumpers who bought us the fairy tales

      and then in return,bought other worlds our stories. They may even have bought bibles.

      So yeah, realm travelers. Just like Mushu xDDDDD 

      Although it makes sense as an overall idea... How would you explain that most of the fairytales we know in the LWM take place just a few months/years before 1983? And even if the story tellers did come to the LWM, it would likely be that the only ones that could've done that were Mulan, Aurora, Phillip, Cora and the Merry Men...

      Since fairytales are much older. For example, Snow White that was not even *published* until 1812. So, the only possible explanation I can think of is some kind of prophecies were made, pretty inaccurate to be honest (they told short and separate aspects of the future, without explaining the relations between them, for instance Rumplestiltskin, Beauty and the Beast, and Peter Pan were written separately without mentioning one of their characters would be the same person).

      I personally like to believe that they were all part of the Dark Curse, that had always been meant to happen. That way, when the people from EF reached SB, they would know their past lives without recognizing themselves. For example, Mary Margaret obviously knows the Snow White fairytale, such as Ruby who was likely aware of the Little Red Riding Hood story, or Archie who had pretty likely read Pinocchio.

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    • What if the Curse implanted these stories into the LWM?

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    • Utter solitude wrote: What if the Curse implanted these stories into the LWM?

      Exactly. I think the Curse literally started acting arround the time when Rumple was born, or even before (up to now the oldest EF character to be transformed into a LWM story is Peter Pan/Rumple, so).

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    • No no, I mean, it just implanted things into our collective history.

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    • Killian Jones wrote:

      XxBadWolfxX wrote: I feel, Religion got to other realms from the same way as fairy tales got to our land. 

      Realm travelers from EF. Since they have realm jumping capabilities and magical items to do so.

      Something Jack Sparrow said in POTC. When another pirate said something about no survivors, Jack said "Where did the stories come from?" (summin like that) 

      So yeah.. story tellers. I think it is from realm-jumpers who bought us the fairy tales

      and then in return,bought other worlds our stories. They may even have bought bibles.

      So yeah, realm travelers. Just like Mushu xDDDDD 

      Although it makes sense as an overall idea... How would you explain that most of the fairytales we know in the LWM take place just a few months/years before 1983? And even if the story tellers did come to the LWM, it would likely be that the only ones that could've done that were Mulan, Aurora, Phillip, Cora and the Merry Men...

      Since fairytales are much older. For example, Snow White that was not even *published* until 1812. So, the only possible explanation I can think of is some kind of prophecies were made, pretty inaccurate to be honest (they told short and separate aspects of the future, without explaining the relations between them, for instance Rumplestiltskin, Beauty and the Beast, and Peter Pan were written separately without mentioning one of their characters would be the same person).

      I personally like to believe that they were all part of the Dark Curse, that had always been meant to happen. That way, when the people from EF reached SB, they would know their past lives without recognizing themselves. For example, Mary Margaret obviously knows the Snow White fairytale, such as Ruby who was likely aware of the Little Red Riding Hood story, or Archie who had pretty likely read Pinocchio.

      Being a Dr. Who/Back to the future fan would explain this in my line of thinking. 

      Not only did the Fairytale characters jump realms, but they traveled into the future.

      The FTL stories might have appeared to happen months before 1983 but in reality it might have been happening in our 1700's but the curse brought them all to our 1983.



      Also in BTTF3 One sports statistics magazine was taken back by Older Biff to the past and then he went back to his timeline so my theory is just like this movie. 

      Hence.. EF coexists in our 1700's but fate made Emma, Bae and the curse arrive to our 1983 which  fate pre-destined it.

      This theory would also explain the storytellers who weren't steered by fate to travel realms

      and thus introduce their stories and in return ours to their realm.

      Why 1983? I'm not sure. But the whole point is: I think the different worlds all have different time frames. Wibbly wobbly timey wimey. xDDD

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      No no, I mean, it just implanted things into our collective history.

      I agree. I find your idea fascinating. That's probably one of the effects of the curse. Collective history with Story Brooke and Regina's mayorial registration in the US government. That's a pretty hefty curse. :)

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    • It is, after all, the "Curse to end all curses".

      It's one of my favorite things to ponder about.

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    • I prefer the idea that the Curse created the stories in our world.

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    • I think it fits, and it keeps the time travel and prophesies to a minimum, which I think is smart.

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    • It's simple, too, and it doesn't take away from the show. I feel like if we had, say, The Brothers Grimm, show up and meet some of our characters to provide a reason for which the stories exist in our world, it would take away from the show a lot. 

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    • Arctucrus wrote:
      It's simple, too, and it doesn't take away from the show. I feel like if we had, say, The Brothers Grimm, show up and meet some of our characters to provide a reason for which the stories exist in our world, it would take away from the show a lot. 

      But why simple? Isn't OUaT about science fiction? And science fiction about firing ones imagination? ^.^ Simple? baah 

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    • Complex things need big explanations so that everyone will understand.

      I mean, look at the taser. I know when I was watching, I assumed it had to be magical. The writers later confirmed that. However, the internet exploded over it, because people couldn't pick up on it. More complex things have to be explained, and that's time we could be using to explain bigger things.

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    • XxBadWolfxX wrote:
      Arctucrus wrote:
      It's simple, too, and it doesn't take away from the show. I feel like if we had, say, The Brothers Grimm, show up and meet some of our characters to provide a reason for which the stories exist in our world, it would take away from the show a lot. 
      But why simple? Isn't OUaT about science fiction? And science fiction about firing ones imagination? ^.^ Simple? baah 

      Simple so that it doesn't take away from the show. If the show spends so much time worrying about how the stories got here and explaining every single little one, don't you think it would take away from the progression of our characters?

      An' GUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURL, IDK where yo' skinny ass got sci-fi, last I checked dis be a fantasy show. [insert as-a-matter-of-fact-duckface here]

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    • Arctucrus wrote:
      XxBadWolfxX wrote:
      Arctucrus wrote:
      It's simple, too, and it doesn't take away from the show. I feel like if we had, say, The Brothers Grimm, show up and meet some of our characters to provide a reason for which the stories exist in our world, it would take away from the show a lot. 
      But why simple? Isn't OUaT about science fiction? And science fiction about firing ones imagination? ^.^ Simple? baah 
      Simple so that it doesn't take away from the show. If the show spends so much time worrying about how the stories got here and explaining every single little one, don't you think it would take away from the progression of our characters?

      An' GUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURL, IDK where yo' skinny ass got sci-fi, last I checked dis be a fantasy show. [insert as-a-matter-of-fact-duckface here]

      Waat? ;D Boy you need to go to 7-11 and grab somemore eats. Cuz we ran out over here.

      AndI think thats affecting yo brain cells xD

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      Complex things need big explanations so that everyone will understand.

      I mean, look at the taser. I know when I was watching, I assumed it had to be magical. The writers later confirmed that. However, the internet exploded over it, because people couldn't pick up on it. More complex things have to be explained, and that's time we could be using to explain bigger things.

      I agree. It's like the "Kurt is alive" theory: too much trouble for an all in all not so relevant detail. The simplest they keep it, the best.

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    • I don't dive deep into theories and ships. But wheres the fun in not thinking of a couple things here and there? ^.^ After all this is a forum. As long as we keep it at a fun level and not take em to far.

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    • XxBadWolfxX wrote: I don't dive deep into theories and ships. But wheres the fun in not thinking of a couple things here and there? ^.^ After all this is a forum. As long as we keep it at a fun level and not take em to far.

      Well that's the whole idea! :D Part of presenting an idea is people countering it.

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    • Utter solitude wrote:

      XxBadWolfxX wrote: I don't dive deep into theories and ships. But wheres the fun in not thinking of a couple things here and there? ^.^ After all this is a forum. As long as we keep it at a fun level and not take em to far.

      Well that's the whole idea! :D Part of presenting an idea is people countering it.

      Countering is fine.But sometimes i'm confused about whether one is merely countering or 

      disciplining. :c

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    • A Spy in the Mirror
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