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  • I feel horribly bad for JAfar after tonight's episode. So it seems Jafar wants love and affection from the Sultan. And technically this is the whole reason why JAfar becomes a mad man that he is today.

    The new Sultan was very evil - the actor did a very good job potraying a villain. 

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    • I don't know, I found it a weak motive for all the things he's done. I kind of relate to him and know how bad parenting can affect one's life, but honestly, people move on.

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    • GothicNarcissus wrote: I kind of relate to him and know how bad parenting can affect one's life, but honestly, people move on.

      DO they? XD

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    • What I don't get, is if the old man in the cage is his father, than who is the old man that sits at the end of the table in the flash back? The look like the same actor.

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    • I liked it. As much as I expected the Old Prisoner to be The Sultan and therefore Jafar's father, I liked it. It made sense to me. 

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    • GothicNarcissus wrote:
      I don't know, I found it a weak motive for all the things he's done. I kind of relate to him and know how bad parenting can affect one's life, but honestly, people move on.

      After thinking it over again, I think that you might be right. Most people just move on. I mean I would understand if Jafar just want the Sultan to be dead after how he treated him. But putting him in a cage until he could call him "Son.." It is so pathetic (not in a bad way) for Jafar to crave his father's love so much, especially after he was always absent from his life. Could it be there is something else that Jafar wants from the Sultan? But regardless I still feel bad for Jafar.

      And I think there is a personality clash between the old version of the Sultan and the younger version of the Sultan. I liked the older version since he looked gentle and kind (until last night scene in which he tried to kill himself). The younger one seem much meaner. AND WTF is wrong with him. If I were a Sultan, I would say "Son.." to Jafar on the last scene last night. After all, He is his SON! Why is he so adamant not calling him son? He rather killed himself than call Jafar his son?

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    • Teehee.heehee.9 wrote:

      But putting him in a cage until he could call him "Son.." It is so pathetic (not in a bad way) for Jafar to crave his father's love so much, especially after he was always absent from his life. Could it be there is something else that Jafar wants from the Sultan? 

      Sure, Jafar wants his father's love and exceptance.... but he, probably, also wants to be named the Sultan's heir. In short, Jafar wants to rule Agrabah.

      Teehee.heehee.9 wrote:

      AND WTF is wrong with him. If I were a Sultan, I would say "Son.." to Jafar on the last scene last night. After all, He is his SON! Why is he so adamant not calling him son? He rather killed himself than call Jafar his son?

      Pride.... not to mention, Jafar is an illegitimate child. To aknowledge Jafar, as his son; the Sultan, would have to acknowledgement his flaws and mistakes. It also raises the question.... does the Sultan have another child and heir?

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Teehee.heehee.9 wrote:

      But putting him in a cage until he could call him "Son.." It is so pathetic (not in a bad way) for Jafar to crave his father's love so much, especially after he was always absent from his life. Could it be there is something else that Jafar wants from the Sultan? 

      Sure, Jafar wants his father's love and exceptance.... but he, probably, also wants to be named the Sultan's heir. In short, Jafar wants to rule Agrabah.


      Teehee.heehee.9 wrote:

      AND WTF is wrong with him. If I were a Sultan, I would say "Son.." to Jafar on the last scene last night. After all, He is his SON! Why is he so adamant not calling him son? He rather killed himself than call Jafar his son?

      Pride.... not to mention, Jafar is an illegitimate child. To aknowledge Jafar, as his son; the Sultan, would have to acknowledgement his flaws and mistakes. It also raises the question.... does the Sultan have another child and heir?

      Chococlated, good answers! It gives me a new insight about the situation....

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:
      Teehee.heehee.9 wrote:

      But putting him in a cage until he could call him "Son.." It is so pathetic (not in a bad way) for Jafar to crave his father's love so much, especially after he was always absent from his life. Could it be there is something else that Jafar wants from the Sultan? 

      Sure, Jafar wants his father's love and exceptance.... but he, probably, also wants to be named the Sultan's heir. In short, Jafar wants to rule Agrabah.

      That's what I got out of it, too. It immediately came to mind, going from being named the Sultan's son to his heir isn't a big leap when you've eliminated the Sultan's only known heir.

      It made me think that Agrabah's throne is what he's after-he said he won't need the old man once he's bent the laws of magic-By that point I figured it must be what he's after.

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    • Arctucrus wrote:

      That's what I got out of it, too. It immediately came to mind, going from being named the Sultan's son to his heir isn't a big leap when you've eliminated the Sultan's only known heir.

      It made me think that Agrabah's throne is what he's after-he said he won't need the old man once he's bent the laws of magic-By that point I figured it must be what he's after.

      I am really curious now, if the Sultan had another child.... possibily, a daughter. It would be an interesting way, of incorporating the Aladdin tale. Princess Jasmine could be Jafar's half-sister, and Aladdin his brother-in-law.

      There was nothing in the flashback, that would contradict it. The Sultan only "cared" for Mirza, because he was the male heir. I got the impression, that Mirza did not duel Jafar, because he knew their father was a scumbag. Leaving a woman (who married a street-rat, no less) on the throne, would be a further insult to the Sultan.

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    • I would love to see another flashback of young Jafar in the period of him as a servant. If Jasmine was also a daughter of the Sultan then I would imagine her to secretly meet Jafar and accept him as her real brother although her father doesn't, making Jasmine a weak spot for Jafar.

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    • Utter solitude wrote:

      GothicNarcissus wrote: I kind of relate to him and know how bad parenting can affect one's life, but honestly, people move on.

      DO they? XD

      Yes, they do. I know better than I'd like to how a bad father or a bad relationship with him can affect people even into adulthood, but at some point they do move on and focus on picking up their own pieces rather than putting their whole life on hold waiting to get the affection they didn't have. Especially with an abusive father like the Sultan.

      I have a friend in an Alice-Edwin situation, I am in a somewhat Regina-Cora one, and have more friends than I can think of with severely stained relationships with their fathers. While we're all affected on levels we can't probably really comprehend, I don't see anyone going above and beyond to make up for the past. Alice's reaction in the latest episode is far more sensible (going her own way but taking the chance she gets to be reconciled), Regina's with Cora (giving in when the latter starts showing her affection) or Rumple's with Peter Pan (screw you, I don't need you in my way – which is what I do) are too. Jafar's is just plain unrealistic.

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    • It's a fairy tale. And some people think different than other people. Regina, Rumple and Alice all have other ways of thinking and handling with their relationship between their parents. However Jafar is just someone who wants to be accepted by his father and will do anything for it. You already could say he is mentally not 100% anymore, but hides it well when around others. And I actually like this parent-child relationship, it's different than the others ones we have seen already.

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    • GothicNarcissus wrote:
      Utter solitude wrote:
      Yes, they do. I know better than I'd like to how a bad father or a bad relationship with him can affect people even into adulthood, but at some point they do move on and focus on picking up their own pieces rather than putting their whole life on hold waiting to get the affection they didn't have. Especially with an abusive father like the Sultan.

      I have a friend in an Alice-Edwin situation, I am in a somewhat Regina-Cora one, and have more friends than I can think of with severely stained relationships with their fathers. While we're all affected on levels we can't probably really comprehend, I don't see anyone going above and beyond to make up for the past. Alice's reaction in the latest episode is far more sensible (going her own way but taking the chance she gets to be reconciled), Regina's with Cora (giving in when the latter starts showing her affection) or Rumple's with Peter Pan (screw you, I don't need you in my way – which is what I do) are too. Jafar's is just plain unrealistic.

      Of course real people move on and Jafar is unrealistic, but Jafar is not a real person. And it isn't as simple as getting Daddy to acknowledge him; Jafar wants the Sultan's throne. The best way to do that, and get at his father, is to have the man legitimize him. The man also tried to drown him, and he lives in a much different world than our modern one.

      Besides, this is a television show. If these people acted the normal, rational way, it would be boring.

      I find Jafar's actions to be extreme, but logical given the situation and his personality.

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    • I think it's an extreme case, I agree, but I don't think that makes it unrealistic. I think it's perfectly realistic and makes complete sense. I love it.

      This is coming from someone who grew up with a father afflicted with Brain Cancer from a young age-Brain Cancer changes people, and it changed my Dad into, at times, a very unpleasant man. I'm not allowed to feel anger towards him, though, because that wasn't him, that was the Cancer. 

      Point being, trust me, I, too, know what a complicated father-child relationship is. Jafar's makes perfect sense in my eyes. I love it, it adds a lot to his character and makes me want to see him more and more and know what else he's capable of.

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    • GothicNarcissus wrote:
      Utter solitude wrote:

      GothicNarcissus wrote: I kind of relate to him and know how bad parenting can affect one's life, but honestly, people move on.

      DO they? XD
      Yes, they do. I know better than I'd like to how a bad father or a bad relationship with him can affect people even into adulthood, but at some point they do move on and focus on picking up their own pieces rather than putting their whole life on hold waiting to get the affection they didn't have. Especially with an abusive father like the Sultan.

      I have a friend in an Alice-Edwin situation, I am in a somewhat Regina-Cora one, and have more friends than I can think of with severely stained relationships with their fathers. While we're all affected on levels we can't probably really comprehend, I don't see anyone going above and beyond to make up for the past. Alice's reaction in the latest episode is far more sensible (going her own way but taking the chance she gets to be reconciled), Regina's with Cora (giving in when the latter starts showing her affection) or Rumple's with Peter Pan (screw you, I don't need you in my way – which is what I do) are too. Jafar's is just plain unrealistic.

      I disagree with it being unrealistic. Its really a matter of who you're dealing with. Its impossible to say someone will move on because you did. Thats just not how it works. I might find it unrealistic for someone to kill their cheating spouse but we all know that happens ridiculously often. People are fickle and its never possible to fully predict how someone will react to these kinds of situations and backgrounds. Some will be fine. Others will break.

      For a child that young, its very plausable for extreme damage to be done like that and im actually shocked Jafar didnt kill his brother sooner. The really sad part is, after all of that, Jafar will most likely just kill his father anyway after he calls him son.

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      GothicNarcissus wrote:
      Utter solitude wrote:
      Yes, they do. I know better than I'd like to how a bad father or a bad relationship with him can affect people even into adulthood, but at some point they do move on and focus on picking up their own pieces rather than putting their whole life on hold waiting to get the affection they didn't have. Especially with an abusive father like the Sultan.

      I have a friend in an Alice-Edwin situation, I am in a somewhat Regina-Cora one, and have more friends than I can think of with severely stained relationships with their fathers. While we're all affected on levels we can't probably really comprehend, I don't see anyone going above and beyond to make up for the past. Alice's reaction in the latest episode is far more sensible (going her own way but taking the chance she gets to be reconciled), Regina's with Cora (giving in when the latter starts showing her affection) or Rumple's with Peter Pan (screw you, I don't need you in my way – which is what I do) are too. Jafar's is just plain unrealistic.

      Of course real people move on and Jafar is unrealistic, but Jafar is not a real person. And it isn't as simple as getting Daddy to acknowledge him; Jafar wants the Sultan's throne. The best way to do that, and get at his father, is to have the man legitimize him. The man also tried to drown him, and he lives in a much different world than our modern one.

      Besides, this is a television show. If these people acted the normal, rational way, it would be boring.

      I find Jafar's actions to be extreme, but logical given the situation and his personality.

      Maybe you're right, but to me the greatest magic of the show was indeed how they took over-the-top fairytale characters and turned them into deeper, more plausible people – which is the word I should have used instead of "realistic"; plausible, in the fictional context they live in. And this happened to pretty much everybody except, so far, Jafar, Ariel and Eric (the "Hey, I just met you and this is crazy" couple).

      With this said, it's true, it's difinitely a very extreme situation which would hardly have a chance happen in the real world, so the comparison is hazardous to begin with. But for one thing, look at how the Sultan has aged between the latest flashback and present day and guess how many coup d'état Jafar could have done in the meantime and with the resources he's been spending to try and retrive the three genies, if his point was the throne. And GREGalicious, when you mention people breaking because of bad situation, read what examples you did? A violent outcome.

      See my point? It is plausible, for an Enchanted Forest wizard who was nearly killed by his abusive and neglecting father, then kept by an abusive employer, then raised by a malevolent practitioner, to seek revenge over the Sultan by killing his legitimate son, overthrowing him, downright killing him, torturing him into legitimising him, or putting him in a cage to have him suffer for as long as possible. But really, spending years and having no other point in your life than casting a very difficult and time- and resource-consuming spell which will make a father who didn't love you god knows how many decades ago love you at last? Haven't you grown past the miserable little children stage? That's why I think it's the flimsiest storyline in the whole OUAT multiverse, all the other characters, especially the villains, have more plausible agendas.

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    • You bring up some beautiful points. However, I'd like to point out that this is a show about love and searching for love, and what's more basic than a parent's love? Or wanting that love? Wanting to be acknowledged and gain power... that's a lofty goal. And there may be more to what he wants.

      But is all that realistic? Of course not. Plausible? Yes, but not really. Jafar is clearly abnormal, but that's why I love him. <3

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      You bring up some beautiful points. However, I'd like to point out that this is a show about love and searching for love, and what's more basic than a parent's love? Or wanting that love? Wanting to be acknowledged and gain power... that's a lofty goal. And there may be more to what he wants.

      But is all that realistic? Of course not. Plausible? Yes, but not really. Jafar is clearly abnormal, but that's why I love him. <3

      Mmmmmmmh you have a point.

      If you put it that way, then you're right: Jafar might just be abnormal and it would make sense. I've never thought of him that way because, while ruthless, he's very lucid in what he does, but his motive might indeed mean he's out of his mind. 'Kay, I can live with that. :P

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    • Sociopath, most likely. You could teach a class on him :D

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    • GothicNarcissus wrote:
      Utter solitude wrote:
      GothicNarcissus wrote:
      Utter solitude wrote:
      Yes, they do. I know better than I'd like to how a bad father or a bad relationship with him can affect people even into adulthood, but at some point they do move on and focus on picking up their own pieces rather than putting their whole life on hold waiting to get the affection they didn't have. Especially with an abusive father like the Sultan.

      I have a friend in an Alice-Edwin situation, I am in a somewhat Regina-Cora one, and have more friends than I can think of with severely stained relationships with their fathers. While we're all affected on levels we can't probably really comprehend, I don't see anyone going above and beyond to make up for the past. Alice's reaction in the latest episode is far more sensible (going her own way but taking the chance she gets to be reconciled), Regina's with Cora (giving in when the latter starts showing her affection) or Rumple's with Peter Pan (screw you, I don't need you in my way – which is what I do) are too. Jafar's is just plain unrealistic.

      Of course real people move on and Jafar is unrealistic, but Jafar is not a real person. And it isn't as simple as getting Daddy to acknowledge him; Jafar wants the Sultan's throne. The best way to do that, and get at his father, is to have the man legitimize him. The man also tried to drown him, and he lives in a much different world than our modern one.

      Besides, this is a television show. If these people acted the normal, rational way, it would be boring.

      I find Jafar's actions to be extreme, but logical given the situation and his personality.

      Maybe you're right, but to me the greatest magic of the show was indeed how they took over-the-top fairytale characters and turned them into deeper, more plausible people – which is the word I should have used instead of "realistic"; plausible, in the fictional context they live in. And this happened to pretty much everybody except, so far, Jafar, Ariel and Eric (the "Hey, I just met you and this is crazy" couple).

      With this said, it's true, it's difinitely a very extreme situation which would hardly have a chance happen in the real world, so the comparison is hazardous to begin with. But for one thing, look at how the Sultan has aged between the latest flashback and present day and guess how many coup d'état Jafar could have done in the meantime and with the resources he's been spending to try and retrive the three genies, if his point was the throne. And GREGalicious, when you mention people breaking because of bad situation, read what examples you did? A violent outcome.

      See my point? It is plausible, for an Enchanted Forest wizard who was nearly killed by his abusive and neglecting father, then kept by an abusive employer, then raised by a malevolent practitioner, to seek revenge over the Sultan by killing his legitimate son, overthrowing him, downright killing him, torturing him into legitimising him, or putting him in a cage to have him suffer for as long as possible. But really, spending years and having no other point in your life than casting a very difficult and time- and resource-consuming spell which will make a father who didn't love you god knows how many decades ago love you at last? Haven't you grown past the miserable little children stage? That's why I think it's the flimsiest storyline in the whole OUAT multiverse, all the other characters, especially the villains, have more plausible agendas.

      I completely understand your stance on Jafar but I dont think any of what he's doing has anything to do with him wanting his father to love him. It seems more likely that he wants his father to, for once, acknowledge him. Wanting validation is not the same as wanting love.

      Yes these are fairytale characters and they will act accordingly, but I think people sometimes allow themselves to forget how twisted a world we actually live in. We still have wicked witches and monsters too but unfortunately they arent as obvious as the ones in fairytales. In reference to children and parents: sometimes, those monsters can create other monsters.

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    • I found Jafar's story a bit illogical. I mean Sultan's and noblemen had cores of illegitimate children and for Sultans and the likes, they mostly grew up in palaces, unlike say a british monarchy. more often than not, they were educated, given high posts because it was easier for Sultan to trust his own blood. and even if not, like Jafar's case, I would doubt the Sultan would go so far to dirty his own hands to kill his own bastard offspring. The story somehow seems too unreal to be true.

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    • Is it tho? XD If you forget how others do it in the real world, it becomes less unreal. At least for me.

      The Sultan was an extreme man, imo. Not the kind to suffer the kind of mistake he seemed to see Jafar as.

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    • A Spy in the Mirror
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