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  • So, might "Anastasia"/Red Queen be one of Cinderella's step-sisters? Her (and Will's) story did originate in the Enchanted Forest and Ashley was also one of the characters who gets a cameo in "Down the Rabbit Hole." I don't know how I feel about the Red Queen yet, but it could be interesting to see how they might tie these stories together if she is Cinderella's step-sister.

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    • Am I the only one who thought of the 1997 animated movie Anastasia? Cinderella never even crossed my mind (one of the stepsister's is named Anastasia...really?)

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    • You both thought of the more revelant "Anasatsia" to your experience.... something every human does, and something people do a lot with this show... (explains all the false "connections" people come up with)

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    • SkyCloud24 wrote:
      Am I the only one who thought of the 1997 animated movie Anastasia? Cinderella never even crossed my mind (one of the stepsister's is named Anastasia...really?)


      No, I actually thought of this one too, but the more I thought about it, the less likely it seemed to me.

      1. The 1997 movie was not Disney, it was 20th Century Fox. (But since the myth that story was based on his far older, I don't think that would stop them from incorporating it if they wanted. But unlike they do with the Disney films, they couldn't incorporate the 1997 film aspects into the story.)

      2. Ashley cameos in the OUAIW pilot. It could be nothing, but then again, if she does have an iconic relation to a main character, it might have been a very purposeful cameo.

      3. Yes, the names of Disney's step-sisters are Anastasia and Drizella Tremaine.

      4. Anastasia's iconic Disney outfit is the "pink dress" (Drizella's is green) and what dress is Enchanted Forest/pre-Queen Anastasia shown in? Pink.

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    • The Anastasia movie is also based on a real person, a historical figure. It's one of few things I never want to see adapted on OUaT. That, and Pocahontas. Both movies were so far off base from reality it's disturbing.

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      The Anastasia movie is also based on a real person, a historical figure. It's one of few things I never want to see adapted on OUaT. That, and Pocahontas. Both movies were so far off base from reality it's disturbing.

      Omg Pocahantas <3 I wouldn't mind seeing her in OUTA ^.^

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      The Anastasia movie is also based on a real person, a historical figure. It's one of few things I never want to see adapted on OUaT. That, and Pocahontas. Both movies were so far off base from reality it's disturbing.

      Agreed. Neither would fit either :| Like people who talk about putting Star Wars in OUaT...I just facedesk really, really hard

      As far as the Red Queen being one of Cinderella's stepsisters, I think it'd be pretty cool. No complaints, I'm open to it.

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    • XxBadWolfxX wrote:
      Utter solitude wrote:
      The Anastasia movie is also based on a real person, a historical figure. It's one of few things I never want to see adapted on OUaT. That, and Pocahontas. Both movies were so far off base from reality it's disturbing.
      Omg Pocahantas <3 I wouldn't mind seeing her in OUTA ^.^

      The bulls*** 20-something year old who falls in love with a bulls**** 20-something year old, or the real Pocahontas, who was about 12 when she met John Smith, who was 27? And who likely made up that story about her saving his life? XD

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      XxBadWolfxX wrote:
      Utter solitude wrote:
      The Anastasia movie is also based on a real person, a historical figure. It's one of few things I never want to see adapted on OUaT. That, and Pocahontas. Both movies were so far off base from reality it's disturbing.
      Omg Pocahantas <3 I wouldn't mind seeing her in OUTA ^.^
      The bulls*** 20-something year old who falls in love with a bulls**** 20-something year old, or the real Pocahontas, who was about 12 when she met John Smith, who was 27? And who likely made up that story about her saving his life? XD

      Dang giirl ;DD

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    • XxBadWolfxX wrote:

      Dang giirl ;DD

      You can't imagine the fit I had when I learned the true stories of Anastasia and Pocahontas

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      XxBadWolfxX wrote:

      Dang giirl ;DD

      You can't imagine the fit I had when I learned the true stories of Anastasia and Pocahontas

      I know ;D But Aurora had a wierd tale but she still made it ;DDDD

      >.>

      Now i'm curious to read their stories O:

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    • XxBadWolfxX wrote:

      Now i'm curious to read their stories O:

      Anastasia died with her family. That's about it. And Pocahontas was greatly exaggerated. 

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Duchess_Anastasia_Nikolaevna_of_Russia

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocahontas

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    • Oh, it would be amazing if Anastasia was Cinderella's stepsister...

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    • Utter solitude wrote:

      The bulls*** 20-something year old who falls in love with a bulls**** 20-something year old, or the real Pocahontas, who was about 12 when she met John Smith, who was 27? And who likely made up that story about her saving his life? XD

      John Smith was an arrogant jerk.... hey, the Disney film got one thing correct.

      Yeah, the Pocahontas story has no place in the OUaT universe. Some people are still complaining about them incorporating Mulan, because she *might* have been a *real* person. Unlike Mulan, historians do not debate if Pocahontas actually existed.

      As for the Red Queen being Cinderella's stepsister, that could work. It would certainly explain why Ashley Boyd (of all people) had a cameo, in the pilot. 

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    • ChocolatEyes613 wrote:

      As for the Red Queen being Cinderella's stepsister, that could work. It would certainly explain why Ashley Boyd (of all people) had a cameo, in the pilot. 

      Do we really need more than "Ashley works at the Diner and Meghan Ory wasn't available" to explain her being there? XD

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    • We don't need it, but well, it would be a fun concidence if Ashley is Anastasia's stepsister.

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    • PinkBell wrote:
      We don't need it, but well, it would be a fun concidence if Ashley is Anastasia's stepsister.

      Indeed it would :D

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    • Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the episode of OUaT about Ashley Ruby told Emma and Henry that Ashley lives with her stepmother and stepsister"s". It would be nice to have the wonderland-characters bound to OUaT-characters, but it doesn't fit with Ashley in this case (as long as I'm not proven wrong by my hearing or a retcon by the authors).

      I just hope Anastasia is not Jefferson's former wife and mother of Grace who ran away with the knave (even if it would explain how she knew about other realms and Wonderland)

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    • No, Ruby told Emma that Ashley has a stepmother and two step sisters she doesn't speak to. She never said Ashley lived with them.

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    • Ah, okay, my fault... But if Ruby knew about them, does that mean that they are in Storybrooke or are they just "written into Ashley's backgroundstory"?

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    • I don't get why every character who gets a human name immediately has to be another character from a fairy tale. I think that Anastasia is a really fitting name for Red Queen, because it is a chic name and radiates authority. It just sounds like a royal name you could give a queen.

      Lianvis wrote:

      I just hope Anastasia is not Jefferson's former wife and mother of Grace who ran away with the knave (even if it would explain how she knew about other realms and Wonderland)

      Actually that sounds very interesting. I wouldn't mind if she was the mother.

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    • Dar, you just did the same thing you claim you don't get XD

      It's okay for her to be the Hatter's wife, and therefore inserted into a story, but not okay if she's in a story she shares a named character with? XD

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    • Lianvis wrote:
      Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the episode of OUaT about Ashley Ruby told Emma and Henry that Ashley lives with her stepmother and stepsister"s". It would be nice to have the wonderland-characters bound to OUaT-characters, but it doesn't fit with Ashley in this case (as long as I'm not proven wrong by my hearing or a retcon by the authors).

      I just hope Anastasia is not Jefferson's former wife and mother of Grace who ran away with the knave (even if it would explain how she knew about other realms and Wonderland)

      I don't want her to be Jefferson's ex either. She's just way to young and childlike to be anybody's wife or mother.

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      Dar, you just did the same thing you claim you don't get XD

      It's okay for her to be the Hatter's wife, and therefore inserted into a story, but not okay if she's in a story she shares a named character with? XD

      Uhm... well... I don't want her to also be a character who exists in a fairy tale already. But I don't mind if she is just an OC. Because in the original Wonderland, Hatter never had a wife (or daughter). Although I doubt that it will happen because she probably became Red Queen not short after she arrived in WL.

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    • DarKingdomHearts wrote:

      Uhm... well... I don't want her to also be a character who exists in a fairy tale already. But I don't mind if she is just an OC. Because in the original Wonderland, Hatter never had a wife (or daughter). Although I doubt that it will happen because she probably became Red Queen not short after she arrived in WL.

      I think you can see it's still kind of the same thing, tho XD She's already the Red Queen.

      I don't care either way, I love her.

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      DarKingdomHearts wrote:

      Uhm... well... I don't want her to also be a character who exists in a fairy tale already. But I don't mind if she is just an OC. Because in the original Wonderland, Hatter never had a wife (or daughter). Although I doubt that it will happen because she probably became Red Queen not short after she arrived in WL.

      I think you can see it's still kind of the same thing, tho XD She's already the Red Queen.

      I don't care either way, I love her.

      Yup, let's keep it at that xD

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    • Mewiet wrote:
      SkyCloud24 wrote:
      Am I the only one who thought of the 1997 animated movie Anastasia? Cinderella never even crossed my mind (one of the stepsister's is named Anastasia...really?)

      No, I actually thought of this one too, but the more I thought about it, the less likely it seemed to me.

      1. The 1997 movie was not Disney, it was 20th Century Fox. (But since the myth that story was based on his far older, I don't think that would stop them from incorporating it if they wanted. But unlike they do with the Disney films, they couldn't incorporate the 1997 film aspects into the story.)

      2. Ashley cameos in the OUAIW pilot. It could be nothing, but then again, if she does have an iconic relation to a main character, it might have been a very purposeful cameo.

      3. Yes, the names of Disney's step-sisters are Anastasia and Drizella Tremaine.

      4. Anastasia's iconic Disney outfit is the "pink dress" (Drizella's is green) and what dress is Enchanted Forest/pre-Queen Anastasia shown in? Pink.

      Your thought #4 is impressive. I agree to that. If anyone can recall, Cinderella 2 and 3, Anastasia (Cindy's stepsister), followed her heart and went with her true feelings. In Cinderella 2, she went with the baker she fell in love with against her mother's wishes. Anastasia running away with Will (Knave) could possibly happened after Cinderella's marriage just like in Cinderella 2.

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    • Mewiet wrote:

      No, I actually thought of this one too, but the more I thought about it, the less likely it seemed to me.

      1. The 1997 movie was not Disney, it was 20th Century Fox. (But since the myth that story was based on his far older, I don't think that would stop them from incorporating it if they wanted. But unlike they do with the Disney films, they couldn't incorporate the 1997 film aspects into the story.)

      2. Ashley cameos in the OUAIW pilot. It could be nothing, but then again, if she does have an iconic relation to a main character, it might have been a very purposeful cameo.

      3. Yes, the names of Disney's step-sisters are Anastasia and Drizella Tremaine.

      4. Anastasia's iconic Disney outfit is the "pink dress" (Drizella's is green) and what dress is Enchanted Forest/pre-Queen Anastasia shown in? Pink.

      Agree with #4. But PLEASE Anastasia was a real person, and not a myth. And she died not even a hundred years ago... Just read her story on wikipedia.

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    • WillowRed wrote:

      But PLEASE Anastasia was a real person, and not a myth. And she died not even a hundred years ago

      She was a real person, but her secret survival was a myth.

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    • Lianvis wrote:
      Ah, okay, my fault... But if Ruby knew about them, does that mean that they are in Storybrooke or are they just "written into Ashley's backgroundstory"?

      It's alright. :) Well, I think they might be in Storybrooke. They existed in the Enchanted Forest, so I could see that they came along with the curse, too. Unless one of them jumped into another world, lol. 

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    • I think she might be Ashley's step sister, I always thought it was curious her cameo, because from all OUAT characters that could've been chosen to be on the pilot that link both series here we see a character that only appeared on 2 episodes on season one and then we never saw her again and neither was mentioned on the following seasons.

      We saw Leroy but Granny could've been on the pilot, or another dwarf, or Archie, which are more familiar to the show, but we have Ashley instead. 

      Another reason to think it might be the step sister is that on the Animated cannon of Cinderella, Anastasia was given a more attention to her character, considering  Cinderella direct to video sequels, Anastasia had a more prominent role and she was a very important character on Cinderella 3, for some reason Disney took interest on this character and given the series way to describe villians on the show (Hook was turned into an something like an  antihero) I think the writers found interesting telling Anastasia's quest for her happy ending.

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    • Oh I like the idea of her being Cinderella's step sister.  I hadn't made that connection before browsing through this thread. 

      I had actually jumped to the Anastasia Romanov conclusion and I was not happy about it.  "Anastasia" is not a Disney film so I was holding out small hope that I was wrong about this character being a reference to her.  Aside from that Anastasia is a historical figure, not a fairy tale.  And that movie is insanely inaccurate.  I share the seniments about Pocahontas too.  I hope they leave her out of OUAT all together.

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    • Am I the only one who found her adorable with child like hope on her face when the knave returned home?

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    • YayMona wrote:
      Am I the only one who found her adorable with child like hope on her face when the knave returned home?

      No, actually, I rather enjoyed that as well.

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    • Arctucrus wrote:
      YayMona wrote:
      Am I the only one who found her adorable with child like hope on her face when the knave returned home?
      No, actually, I rather enjoyed that as well.

      Same here. I thought she looked quite innocent with such an excited expression. 

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    • Applegirl wrote:
      Arctucrus wrote:
      YayMona wrote:
      Am I the only one who found her adorable with child like hope on her face when the knave returned home?
      No, actually, I rather enjoyed that as well.
      Same here. I thought she looked quite innocent with such an excited expression. 

      Exactly! That was HUGE for me in bringing up my respects for the Red Queen's character and for Emma Rigby's acting abilities. It really came through how different of a person she used too be, which in turn does a good job of raising the questions of, "How?" which of course, is the goal and a great thing to do, so. 

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    • Rwo

      I had hoped that she's Ashley's sister, but that's impossible. Remember the 1x04 introduction ? Who can we see going to the Thomas Ball ? MUMMY AND DAUGHTERS.

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    • Rwo wrote:
      I had hoped that she's Ashley's sister, but that's impossible. Remember the 1x04 introduction ? Who can we see going to the Thomas Ball ? MUMMY AND DAUGHTERS.

      That apparition was minimal, if we survive the change of a Robin hood who appeared in the most of an episode, i think we can deal with the recast of someone who didn't have any dialogue at all or was relevant to the episode.

      It would make sense Anastasia's desire to leave the Enchanted Forest, given she was spoiled and then her servant became a princess, I see there a motivation to become a queen.

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    • Yes but.... In 1x04, Ruby says Ashley has two step-sisters living in Storybrooke whom she doesn't talk to, and it's impossible for one of them to be Anastasia, the Red Queen. :(

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    • SenatorSilver wrote: Yes but.... In 1x04, Ruby says Ashley has two step-sisters living in Storybrooke whom she doesn't talk to, and it's impossible for one of them to be Anastasia, the Red Queen. :(

      Actually, the two step-sisters might only be part of Ashely's fake memories. If she doesn't ever talk to them, it is very probable that she doesn't meet them during the events that were repeated each day for the 28 years before Emma arrived to Storybrooke (and likely, she doesn't meet them after that anyway), and therefore it is possible that they don't even exist in Storybrooke, even though Ashely has fake memories that make her think they do. Thinking that way, there is a chance that Anastasia is one of her step-sisters, only if you asume her physical appearance was retconed since The Price of Gold, when both stepsisters were seen as bulky women with dark hair.

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    • Mewiet wrote:
      WillowRed wrote:

      But PLEASE Anastasia was a real person, and not a myth. And she died not even a hundred years ago

      She was a real person, but her secret survival was a myth.

      Yep, but the whole Romanovs affair is still a somewhat sensitive topic in the former USSR countries, with older people of regarding them as a living (dead) symbol of the nobles' oppression on the poor (my mom was kinda annoyed that I listen to a band called The Romanovs until she found out they play amazing music), anti-sovietic people seeing them as martyrs of the regime, the ortodox church turning them into saints for that reason aaaaand so on. Really, it's politics, better not to dig into that stuff. It would be like digging out Marie Antoinette and turning her into a fairytale character, except the whole ordeal has happened not even a century ago. Just unnecessary controversy, imo.

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    • Anastasia was a real person, yes. I am pretty sure there is a real person called Regina too. There's probably someone real called Abigail out there. And I think there's a real Henry, Felix, Malcolm, Eva, Alice, David, Alphonse, Ariel, Daniel and Frederick. That doesn't mean every fictional character with their names has to be based on them. Anastasia might not even be based on Cinderella's step sister, why would she be based on a russian princess?

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    • I am really thinking that Anastasia was one of Cinderella's step-sisters. If they are... I think it's ironic that both she and Cinderella became royalty, while Drizella's whereabouts remain unknown. In 1x05 of OUaTiW, Anastasia's "mother" and kind of taunted/ ridiculed her in a haughty tone, similar to Cora with Regina. She also said before she left "Well, at least I have your sisters." She may not have been a fan of Cinderella, but she may have used her in a last-ditch effort to prevent her daughter from running away with Will.

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    • Killian Jones wrote:
      Anastasia was a real person, yes. I am pretty sure there is a real person called Regina too. There's probably someone real called Abigail out there. And I think there's a real Henry, Felix, Malcolm, Eva, Alice, David, Alphonse, Ariel, Daniel and Frederick. That doesn't mean every fictional character with their names has to be based on them. Anastasia might not even be based on Cinderella's step sister, why would she be based on a russian princess?

      That's not what I meant, it's not about the name. Of course she is named like some real people, but it's different from being created (and thus named) after one of them. I assume there's plenty of fictional Anastasia's out there, including Cinderella's stepsister, but it's different from a fictional rendition of "The" Anastasia. Not a random real person.

      I was commenting about calling out the "myth" justifying the possibility for an inclusion. Like, okay, that's (a bit of a stretch but let's assume it's) a good point: it's still sensitive matter. Prior to the release of the 1997 movie the marketing campaign in Russia had to strongly emphasize it was totally fictional, absolutely not meant to be historically accurate, fairytalish, only losely backgrounded by real events and bla bla. Although the general reception in Russia was good, it had to go through all those disclaimers first to convince people it was not offensive/disrespectful/whatever. A bit troublesome.

      WIth this said, it would be cool if she turned out to be Cinderella's stepsister, but regardless, she's a great character I've grown to love a lot. <3

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    • GothicNarcissus wrote:

      Killian Jones wrote:
      Anastasia was a real person, yes. I am pretty sure there is a real person called Regina too. There's probably someone real called Abigail out there. And I think there's a real Henry, Felix, Malcolm, Eva, Alice, David, Alphonse, Ariel, Daniel and Frederick. That doesn't mean every fictional character with their names has to be based on them. Anastasia might not even be based on Cinderella's step sister, why would she be based on a russian princess?

      That's not what I meant, it's not about the name.

      Sorry for the confusion, but I was responding to WillowRed's post, only now I notice it was quite old, since I've just read it in your post's quote XD

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    • Killian Jones wrote:

      GothicNarcissus wrote:

      Killian Jones wrote:
      Anastasia was a real person, yes. I am pretty sure there is a real person called Regina too. There's probably someone real called Abigail out there. And I think there's a real Henry, Felix, Malcolm, Eva, Alice, David, Alphonse, Ariel, Daniel and Frederick. That doesn't mean every fictional character with their names has to be based on them. Anastasia might not even be based on Cinderella's step sister, why would she be based on a russian princess?
      That's not what I meant, it's not about the name.
      Sorry for the confusion, but I was responding to WillowRed's post, only now I notice it was quite old, since I've just read it in your post's quote XD

      Oh sorry! My mistake then! XD

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    • GothicNarcissus wrote:

      Killian Jones wrote:

      GothicNarcissus wrote:

      Killian Jones wrote:
      Anastasia was a real person, yes. I am pretty sure there is a real person called Regina too. There's probably someone real called Abigail out there. And I think there's a real Henry, Felix, Malcolm, Eva, Alice, David, Alphonse, Ariel, Daniel and Frederick. That doesn't mean every fictional character with their names has to be based on them. Anastasia might not even be based on Cinderella's step sister, why would she be based on a russian princess?
      That's not what I meant, it's not about the name.
      Sorry for the confusion, but I was responding to WillowRed's post, only now I notice it was quite old, since I've just read it in your post's quote XD

      Oh sorry! My mistake then! XD

      No problem :D Anyway, I think it would be a good twist to make the Red Queen one of Cinderella's step-sisters, but I wouldn't mind if they didn't do it. They don't really *have* to.

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    • She's a good enough character to stand on her own. Started off as kind of lame, but has got amazing with the episodes, so I agree, they don't have to. But I'm still a huge fan of the X is also Y from Z story, so I keep my fingers crossed.

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    • And to answer you Killian Jones, GothicNarcissus actually gave the answer why it will bother me. Anastasia was a real person, a real princess, not a fairytale and her story is not that old and still resonates in some people's mind. If they turned out a real historical character into a fairytale like Marie Antoinette or Anastasia I would be really bothered. Because one thing is History of our world and politics and Fairy Tales are different stories that don't need to be mixed. It has nothing to do with the names. By the way I proposed to Anastasia in Disneyland a while ago and she was definately Cinderella's step sister. Sadly she dumped me for some guy, Will or something. :(

      Actually I wouldn't mind her to be just a girl named Anastasia that stands on her own as said before

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      XxBadWolfxX wrote:
      Utter solitude wrote:
      The Anastasia movie is also based on a real person, a historical figure. It's one of few things I never want to see adapted on OUaT. That, and Pocahontas. Both movies were so far off base from reality it's disturbing.
      Omg Pocahantas <3 I wouldn't mind seeing her in OUTA ^.^
      The bulls*** 20-something year old who falls in love with a bulls**** 20-something year old, or the real Pocahontas, who was about 12 when she met John Smith, who was 27? And who likely made up that story about her saving his life? XD

      Worse, i've heard from sources that John Smith was actually 40 when he met 12 year old Pocahontas

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    • it's been implied that she's cinderella's step-sister form the line fromt eh jabbawocky (sorry for mispelling) i can't remember the line for word to word but it was something along the line of " going to the ball and having the prince chose your sister over you". I have to go back to the episode or post a link but it was implied that she is cinderella's step sister. also her mother was very evil, and kept mentioning that Anastasia have sisters. also when  Anastasia first met the Red king she said she hasn't been to a proper ball in a long time.

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    • A Spy in the Mirror
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