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  • My theory is that Rumple's "undoing" is simply him undoing as the Dark One. Perhaps his powers would be gone/disappeared during the rescue of Henry or something. I know that the creators won't kill off such a popular character, and we all know how the Seer predicts things in a way that isn't what it seems (the Ogre Wars and Bae "losing" his father). Any thoughts?

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    • I think that most posts about Rumple's undoing are along this train of thought so you're in good company :)

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    • I don't think that Henry is going to kill Mr. Gold. I think either he just destroys the Dark One's Powers or it's someone else.

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    • I like the idea of Belle being pregnant when Rumple and co. leave to find Henry, and Rumple somehow learning about it mid-season 3. It would put an interesting spin on things, since now Rumple will be even more determined to survive (since I'm certain he won't want to leave another child of his fatherless), and thus be even more torn regarding Henry and the prophecy. 

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    • 49.144.10.13 wrote:
      I like the idea of Belle being pregnant when Rumple and co. leave to find Henry, and Rumple somehow learning about it mid-season 3. It would put an interesting spin on things, since now Rumple will be even more determined to survive (since I'm certain he won't want to leave another child of his fatherless), and thus be even more torn regarding Henry and the prophecy. 

      thats soo good

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    • That's so funny, reminded me of how Emilie was saying something like, "There's a few children in between" regarding Rumbelle's relationship at PaleyFest 2013, if they were ever going to get THEIR Happy Ending at the end of S2 and Bobby was like shaking his head side-to-side, as if he was saying, "Wait a minute. We didn't discuss this." XD

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    • Well the seer's prophecy was correct, Bae did lose his dad. Rumple chose magic over Bae. 

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    • Alphanugget wrote:
      Well the seer's prophecy was correct, Bae did lose his dad. Rumple chose magic over Bae. 

      It would seem that a prophecy, once known, becomes self-fullfilling. Rumplestiltskin did not want die on the front lines and leave his child fatherless, so he injured himself so he could go home. However, those actions ultimately led to Baelfire being fatherless. In theory, had he stayed on the battlefield, he likely would have died, leaving the son fatherless. Either way, it comes true.

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      Alphanugget wrote:
      Well the seer's prophecy was correct, Bae did lose his dad. Rumple chose magic over Bae. 
      It would seem that a prophecy, once known, becomes self-fullfilling. Rumplestiltskin did not want die on the front lines and leave his child fatherless, so he injured himself so he could go home. However, those actions ultimately led to Baelfire being fatherless. In theory, had he stayed on the battlefield, he likely would have died, leaving the son fatherless. Either way, it comes true.

      Yep. And on the other hand, we were shown how ambigous prophecies can be. The "fatherless" part happened in a somewhat twisted way, so this might be the case of the undoing, too.

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    • GothicNarcissus wrote:

      Yep. And on the other hand, we were shown how ambigous prophecies can be. The "fatherless" part happened in a somewhat twisted way, so this might be the case of the undoing, too.

      Most prophecies are incredibly ambiguous, enough that pretty much everything can end up fullfilling them.

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    • Well now that old bae (Neal) is elsewhere, Rumple would give up his powers as Bae was the reason he honestly wanted them or even try to use them to find neal but result in his powers being taken out of storybrooke and him no way to return.


      So Bae is Rumple's undoing

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    • Utter solitude wrote:
      Alphanugget wrote:
      Well the seer's prophecy was correct, Bae did lose his dad. Rumple chose magic over Bae. 
      It would seem that a prophecy, once known, becomes self-fullfilling. Rumplestiltskin did not want die on the front lines and leave his child fatherless, so he injured himself so he could go home. However, those actions ultimately led to Baelfire being fatherless. In theory, had he stayed on the battlefield, he likely would have died, leaving the son fatherless. Either way, it comes true.

      You're right. But does Henry know about his prophecy? Think about it, if he were to find out, he would probably do everything he could not to do it. This prophecy could be a totally interesting plot.

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    • U know what? Let's all just blame Pan, bc if he didn't open his mouth in front of Neal, then Neal wouldn't had told the others, and then the others would've had not turned on Rumple so quickly when they all thought his prophecy was to kill Henry, when in fact. He didn't bc he assumed Neal had died due to Tamara shooting him and fell through the portal to EF with Philora/Mulan. If, Neal didn't find his way to NL after seeing Emma in that crystal ball, he would've never have guessed that Pan had Henry. Also, Pans prophecy about Henry's heart will may or never be mentioned now bc both RK/MRJ are busy with their new shows, so I don't expect to see how Pan knew about Henry been his undoing, yet his heart would give him eternal youth once Henry was dead. Other than that! I don't believe Neal was Rumple's undoing, but I do believe that when it said, Henry would reunite father/son, which Henry did in Manhattan. Also, in NastyHabits when all 4 generations were in the same scene. Shockingly enough, that was the best scene ever in 3A, the saddest was when Rumple died with Pan. But, that's it! ,,,and ofc when Neal died in 3B, well, that just killed me more than anything. I still had hope for SwanfireBuddy's happy ending, but that blew up in my face, when MRJ left OUAT. :'( But this part of Pan's undoing will never be explored ever again. Not unless, they bring back Pan from the dead, they did it with Zelena. We know, Rumple went to his vault. For all we know, MalPan could most likely be dead, but in another version of Neverland. Everyone there sees him as Malcolm, but he still sees himself as Pan. Just my theory! and besides, for Malcolm to become Pan again, he'd most likely have to rip Henry's heart out his chest and put his great-grandsons heart inside his own body, just to make himself young again. Then, maybe Pan's Prophecy will then come to pass. I hope, I wasn't the only one who thought about this.

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    • Don't you mean the Seer's prophecy?

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    • CTrent29 wrote:
      Don't you mean the Seer's prophecy?


      Yes, the Seer's prophecy was about Henry been Rumple's Undoing, the boy that would reunite GoldenBae, but he would also be Rumple's downfall. But we still don't know who told Pan about Henry been Pan's undoing. Since it was Henry's heart who would give MalPan eternal youth in Neverland, since he was dying. Pan chose to stay in NL when he abandoned Rumple as a child, bc Malcolm's life was bound to the Shadow. It said, a child couldn't have a child, so it was breaking the rules, and that price was, he stole boys from their families, so that he could have time bc the hourglass was keeping track of how much time MalPan had left to live, if he didn't get Henry's heart. Yes, he lied bout the magic dying in NL, but he was dying. Pan needed Henry's heart bc everyone stopped believing in him, even the Lost Boys. Except Felix. We still don't know who told Pan about Henry been the boy to save his youth, it was a trade as Wendy said it. Pan would live and Henry would die, once Pan got Henry's heart. As shown, Henry was down for quite a while, Pan never had Henry's heart for that long, anyway. So basically, its like he had forgotten Regina rips out hearts for a living when she was TEQ. Pan's plan failed until the switcheroo happened. So technically, he still got Henry's heart when Pan switched bodies with Henry. Even then, it failed once more even twice, when Pan died with Rumple and when Regina stopped Pan's New Neverland and took everyone back to the Enchanted Forest. We all knew about Rumple's Prophecy by the Seer he killed since Manhattan, but we don't know who told Pan's Prophecy about Henry been the same person in his. There can't be two Seers, we haven't seen that. So, unless the Seer you're talking of who predicted Pan's Prophecy about Henry been hiss undoing, as well for Rumple's as Hery was the same thing. It's very unlikely, since the Seer would've never been born, since the young Seer we saw was around a few months, Baelfire was born. And, Pan could've known about Henry the moment when he met Felix, and yet we still don't know how Pan met Felix, either,. If, Felix was Pan's right-hand lost boy, since maybe after Rumple was abandoned, or when he was a teen. From the time, Malcolm abandoned Rumple to become Pan from after Baelfire was born, is like 30-40yrs. Which could've been plenty of time where Pan could've met Felix, bc after 14yrs go by, that's when Baelfire meets Felix in NL. So let's make the time-gap at least 40 odd years at the most. IDK!

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    • So in S5, it was revealed that there will be someone that can use the darkness for good purpose. Doubt it's going to be Rumple, but Henry's the Author now and could pull some shenanigans to transfer the Darkness into that person.

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    • You know prophecies always seem to be misleading alot. I mean we saw an undoing of Rumple in season 3 when killed himself and his father during when and after rescueing Henry. It felt like by rescueing Henry it led to his tomb. And yet he was bought back from the dead.

      Also, Henry appeared to be like his undoing when the boy became the new author which erased everything that he and that brainless oaf Isaac written and planned, which continued for him to be dying when the darkness was killing him through his heart, and yet he survived thanks to the Apprentice and Dark Emma when awakening him. Sometimes I do not think it means what he thinks it means. This is why prophecies are misleading sometimes.

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    • i dont know if its ok to respond here bc its been over a year now, but does the prophecy of "rumples" still apply to rumbelle's babyson gideon now a grown-up morpheus? since the seer was never specific on which son henry would reunite rumple with, she said he would reunite rumple with his son. but which one now? does the same prophecy apply to gideon/morpheus even tho baelfire/neal is dead?! bc if memory serves. the seer said, the boy would be more than he appeared to be. back then henry was the truest believer and his evil gr8grandpa (malcolm/pan) got henry's heart in the end unril he died w rumple, and then was resurrected when he came back and nealfire died in his place, and now 9-10months later. henry's the new author, while his paternal uncle, his dads kidbrother (somehow is evil) and wants to kill his birth mother, emma (for some unknown reason, but that wont be explained until near the season finale, so its going to be a long time waiting for why morpheus wants emma dead) and since rumples mother may want his new grandson to kill henry's mother(emma) too (for some unknown reason as well, which was able to brainwash adultgideon with. esp easily manipulated belle to send her son away w blue in the first place) bc, i kinda think rumple's prophecy w henry has rebooted itself, now and again does apply to adultgideon(morpheus) but i could still be wrong abt this. altho, im more interested on how rumbelle are going to go to rumples mother's realm to save their baby son, so he doesnt come back to kill emma in the first place. idky, its just IMHO i still think rumples prophecy still applies to adultgideon aka morpheus, just bc he's the one who's going to kill emma. also, to think both nealfire &morpheon had something in common, swanbeliever and rumple. also, nealfire was raised by rumples dad, while morpheon was raised by rumples mum. OMG! so yes, for the third time, altho i could still be wrong. but i still think henry is still rumples undoing, bc his prophecy abt henry been emma's son is important in rumples next step to redemption-arc this second half. only bc, rumple was good w neal, until he died and for the last 9months he was on a downward spiral until babygideon was born and lost him too. this just had me thinking abt henry been rumples undoing again, bc of how hes connected to emma and that morpheus is gonna kill emma. i know it wont happen, but in recent shows for the past years, esp on theCW they kept killing their main characters and back then we had darkemma, so im still thinking rumples prophecy w henry still applies to adultgideon/morpheus :)

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    • While you do bring up some good points, I think the son in the prophecy is Baelfire, because the whole context of the conversation is based around Baelfire and Rumple finding him. However, the prophecy was never clear on what boy would lead Rumple back to Baelfire, it has always just been assumed that the boy is Henry.  And the events of Season 2 and 3A seem to fulfill the prophecy.

      Now, prophecy's are, as has been pointed out, never what the seem to be on the surface, and many prophecies can have multiple fulfillment, both in the here and now, and in the time yet to come. So while we may have had a fulfillment of the prophecy, there is always the chance that there is more to come. and seeing Baelfire again could mean that, somehow, Rumple dies and moves on, allowing him to see him again in the afterlife. And his undoing in this case would truly be his death, probably at the hands of the 'boy' of the prophecy.

      Now, I'm not saying that this will happen (Actually, I doubt that it will), but it is definitly a possibility that the writers could consider, should they think of it.

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    • I would actually love if they made it so the prophecy is actually about Gideon and not Baelfire. The seer only said "your son", right? And we could argue that Gideon is lost in a way, because he was corrupted by the Black Fairy. That also means Gold's undoing could indeed be his death, which would be a cool way to write him off the show.

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    • yea bobbys contract w this show has been up for a while now. but the writers keep making rumple a idky but one minute hes a hero, next minute hes a villain, then back and forth until we all get confused, bc in the end he always ends up the bad guy, bc its rumple. also, now i think rumple's an anti-villain like how hook's a hero but in my eyes, he's still a anti-hero, if u get my drift. so w this show. bobby maynot come back for season7 thats if this season gets there come the finale, it cud b the last and final season come s7. anyway re: rumples undoing involving adultgideon/morpheus. i thought it was strange he was brainwashed and manipulated that badly that belle fell for it, if anything i think it wasnt morpheus who turned his own parents against one another, but rumples own mother. the seer wudv done what pan had done to him. hurt belfire, wudv killed him too, had no trouble by keeping him in the echo caves away from rumple. and then took back henry. even pan almost brainwashed henry into thinking he cud save magic, disre: the fact pan was going to kill him for his golden heart to give pan eternal youth, while henry laid there dead as a skunk. or even a tree log. so in re: w morpheus its alot different, and whole hella worse than what baelfire had to deal w, bc one pan mayhave raise baelfire, kept him from rumple, bc he knew his feud w hook was over bae's mother, who left him for that deal rumple made to save vaes life the same day milah met hook and for a split second she forgot baelfire, her own son was dying from a snake bite. belle is like milah 2.0, tho i still think shes eaisily manipulated, easily judgemental, doesnt let rumple finish a sentence where it wasnt his fault she gave birth early bc it was TEQ and not him. the differences i cud give b/w neal&morpheus wud b it wud give me a bad headaache. but at the end of this thing. henry's still the key. and i havent figured it out yet. somehow his life is linked to rumple's not that im saying henry cud write rumple a happy endingw belle&gideon even tho he cudnt give it to himself by resurrecting neal. but since neal has moved on. whats stopping henry from bringing his dad back, the apprentice did lie, and still henry chooses not to, bc its the right thing, yet his mirror self wishes he had known neal. but in all honesty, tbh this whole propjecy is obsurd. it doesnt make sense anymore. one bc its henry and two; bc its rumple. and usually things w rumple dont end well, things w henry r fine in their own right, but also end up in bad shape too. so to end this convo. i do think it still applies to gideon as well, and not just baelfire, bc unless the seer meant one of them and not both. bc henry reunited neal w rumple n 2x14, rumbelle will b reunited w gideon somehow in the most dysfunctional way. im actually afraid of what rumples mom can do, let alone shed make what pan did to SQ look like childs play. pan had no problems w killing snowing &kidnapping henry, but w rumples mom using neals 1/2bro to kill his nephews real mom &possibly torturing his adoptive mom for an unknown reason. bc she thinx she can, idky but thats kinda harsh even by the writers standards. i just wanted for once on this show, rumbelles kid 2b normal and not evil, however i also wanted rumples mom 2b normal too, but that blew up in my face. ok now im done. apologies im ranting again :/

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    • A Spy in the Mirror
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