This will be one massive thread XD
Go!
This will be one massive thread XD
Go!
-Snow blaming herself for "helping bring the EQ into the world." I know it's Snow's personality-hell I would be prone to doing that-but it was the fact that no one denied it. Snow did not birth the EQ, she was an innocent victim manipulated by Cora. If anyone brought the EQ into the world, the blame should fall on Cora, Rumple and Regina, not Snow.
Snow accepts partial blame and I'll agree that if I were her, I wouldn't, but even Regina said it was her own fault because she could have forgiven I don't think anyone can change Snow's mind.
-The EQ being separated from Regina. My problem with this is that any blame for Regina's past actions (or anyone the EQ hurts this season) will now fall on the EQ not her (despite the fact that Regina and the EQ are the same person). I know, wait until season 6, but I still have low expectations. That and you can't just erase all the dark parts of yourself to avoid dealing with (well-deserved) karma. If you have to physically remove and kill you bad parts to make sure you aren't tempted by them well what does that say about you?
Having low expectations after the writers spent 4b confusing words and poorly defining darkness is cool, but I'm sure the lesson they'll get at is that there are no shortcuts.
-Emma being Regina's punching bag. Emma had just got her boyfriend back after losing him twice and Regina threatened him again. Regina stood in front of the woman who was a former Dark One and told her she doesn't understand darkness (she does Regina but obviously no pain compares to yours). And then there was unfairly criticising her ability to find people-"I won't hold my breath"-completely rude and uncalled for. Why Regina felt the need to belittle Emma's talent is beyond me.
I can see why, but as I tend to scour the realms it's generally CS fans that think that while mostly everyone else sees it as alright. Interesting anecdotal talk. Regina clarified that Emma wasn't consumed by the darkness like she was, which is true. Emma respects brutal honesty. It's not like Emma and Hook are one person that have to get offended for both. It's not like Emma would sit there while Regina tortures Hook. That's a punching bag. Regina saying that she wanted to hurt Hook but knew she wouldn't isn't some threat to go threatening Regina about. You don't calm down a person that's on edge by making them angry and Emma knows that.
I also find that people should see that Regina isn't really belittling people to be rude, but that's just a defense mechanism. When Regina coments on David's vocabulary or Snow's intelligence, it's okay. But as soon as Regina talks about Emma or Hook, there are some fans that cry foul. Regina snarks at everyone, except Henry. I'll admit that sometimes it is overplayed though.
-And on that point, Regina's "I keep suffering." Know who else suffers? Emma Swan, who in the past six weeks alone became the Dark One and lost her boyfriend twice. Killian Jones, who (unwillingly) became the Dark One, died, was tortured and mauled and lost his brother and girlfriend and found out that his ex was currently residing in eternal torment. Snow, who was disowned, hunted like an animal and terrorised and yet she never stopped doing good just because she was suffering. Yet did either of them sit and say "Well why should I do good, I keep suffering?" No they didn't. It's called life, Regina, suck it up.
And Regina never said that noone else suffers. It was a nice inlook at what she was feeling. She's pretty much saying that being evil loses those you love, but being good leads to suffering, so is there any benefit to be good? And in that same convo she chose that she'd choose family and being good over giving into evil.
-Henry criticising Emma. "You thought she was going to go all Evil Queen again." "I'm sorry I should have trusted Regina." Given Regina's past history, it was completely reasonabe for Emma not to trust her.
Well, Regina lost Robin like twice and she didn't go evil then, so why now?
-Henry's "I want to destroy magic" quest. You would think he'd have learned by now that magic is not the problem it's the person using it.
-The Captain Swan kiss. I know how much of a big thing it was for Emma to be able to say 'I love you', walls down and not when they are in imminent danger. But after 20 episodes of the going through metaphorical and literal hell, I would have expected a "Let's go home" and a shot of them moving into their new house at least.
But secretly they are in imminent danger, lol.
-It felt more like the beginning of season six than the end of season 5. While they could have been neatly tying up Camelot (seriously where was Guinevere. Is she still cursed), freeing the Lost Souls and actually acknowledging and talking about Emma and Killian's trauma, they simply got in with the season 6 plot to leave it on a cliffhanger.
I do agree totally with the fact that the finale was almost a premiere. I also think that you probably can tell that two different set of writers wrote the two episodes. So, likely that's one of the reasons we some things differently.
Regina's monologue to me was great, but coupled with the next episode it seemed to underplay or take away from what it could have been, but then the last episode was written by A & E.
I, as a CSer, get mad when Regina makes fun of Snow, David and Robin (and others) as well as Emma and Hook. I don't see it as a defense mechanism.
It's the fact that Emma lost Killian twice this season and Regina not only said she wanted to kill him but described it. It felt like this; imagine Robin and Hook both were hit by a car. Hook lives and Robin dies. Then Regina says to Emma "I want to hit Hook with a car!" (Little unrealistic, but you get me?)
When were the other two times she lost Robin?
Yeah but I mean not knowing they are in imminent danger.
Other times she lost (or was in imminent danger of losing) Robin were in SEason 4, while Robin was in NYC, and 5x2, when Robin took the blow meant to kill Regina. There might have been others as well.
As for Regina expressing her desire to rip out Killians throat, I think it was a fair exposition. She was expressing a whole lot of frustration that life just kicked her in the gut. I can tell you that there are times where something happens and I just want to punch someone, even though I know it's wrong.
Regina is hurting, and hurting bad. She generally hides her hurt, because she is a somewhat private character. But she's learning to open up to her friends more (a healthy sign, and a good message to project). Emma didn't judge Regina for her feelings. She listened, and tried to provide encouragement where she could. Overall, I thought that scene was powerful in a positive way.
as for Regina snarking at Emma, David, Killian, or anyone else. I agree that I don't see it necessarily as a defense mechanism. It's really just who she is, and it's her primary mode of expression. She's learned others, and uses them more, but the snark is still her default setting. "You'd think the pirate with a rum problem would cut my sister a little slack" is a perfect example of her communication style under stress. (and as a side comment, Zelena has the same trait, so it must be something genetic with the Mills women).
As for Regina expressing her desire to rip out Killians throat, I think it was a fair exposition. She was expressing a whole lot of frustration that life just kicked her in the gut. I can tell you that there are times where something happens and I just want to punch someone, even though I know it's wrong.
Regina is hurting, and hurting bad. She generally hides her hurt, because she is a somewhat private character. But she's learning to open up to her friends more (a healthy sign, and a good message to project). Emma didn't judge Regina for her feelings. She listened, and tried to provide encouragement where she could. Overall, I thought that scene was powerful in a positive way.
as for Regina snarking at Emma, David, Killian, or anyone else. I agree that I don't see it necessarily as a defense mechanism. It's really just who she is, and it's her primary mode of expression. She's learned others, and uses them more, but the snark is still her default setting. "You'd think the pirate with a rum problem would cut my sister a little slack" is a perfect example of her communication style under stress. (and as a side comment, Zelena has the same trait, so it must be something genetic with the Mills women).
Ohhh right okay. When Robin was in NYC she was planning on rewriting reality anyways and in Camelot she manipulated Emma into saving him "I've lost love before and I won't again."
Yes I have had times when I've been angry. However, I have never said to someone that I wish to murder their significant other because they were alive and mine wasn't.
Sorry I just find Regina's snark as plain rude, especially with that remark about Killian's rum habit but this is not the place for that.
Overall, an okay episode! I really like that they try to correct multiple mistakes they use to do. (This goes for all of the 5b). At the finale, they tried to connect , darkeness as something between force and creature , with the evil road being something between free will and author staff, which is not clear , at least for the last seasons. I have problems with what are the limits of someone's darker self, as the series expand but my mayor problem is that now word-crossing is a 2 minutes job, while the whole point of the series was that it's something that happens really rarely.
Bonus: With most of the known western Europian fairytales being introduced, I have to say that I spotted multiple arabian ("Agrabah" )characters on the LoUS. We may be surprised , since i think i recall them saying about a world...
One is obviously having a place where these untold stories can be told, probably harmless depending on the story, but also seemingly altruistic.
Hyde could also be trying to hide Jeckyll as the more sinister of the 2 personalities. Let's face it, it was Jekyll that developed the serum that physically split the 2, it was likely Jekyll that developed the serum that allows for switching from one personality to the other. And he may have other potions that have similarly non-beneficial effects. From a steam-punk potion perspective, Jekyll may very well rival Rumple or Regina in the potions department.
Also, it was Hyde, not Jeckyll, that stated (to David and Company) that keeping things locked up was not the problem, it's when you open the gate that trouble starts.
Hyde is dark and imposing. But he may not be the villain. time will tell.
I was thinking the exact same thing, while watching the finale!
Mr. Hyde being the more benign personality, would actually be a brilliant twist. Many people forget that Dr. Jekyll was not the hero, in the original story. He created the serum to indulge, in his worst fantasies without consequences. It was only when Mr. Hyde developed into a full-blown sociopath, that the "good" doctor wanted to put an end to him.
Many people forget that Dr. Jekyll was not the hero, in the original story. He created the serum to indulge, in his worst fantasies without consequences. It was only when Mr. Hyde developed into a full-blown sociopath, that the "good" doctor wanted to put an end to him.
Some people say (and I agree) that there really was no Mr Hyde, and that was just a name Jekyll created for when he transformed. I like to think that the serum started to make it so he transformed whenever his good or bad side was dominant, and the reason he started randomly turning into Mr Hyde was because he had become a bad person. Even as Jekyll he had little remorse for his actions as Hyde or the fact that he had given control to his dark side, until he started randomly transforming and was worried he'd get caught.
Bonus: With most of the known western Europian fairytales being introduced, I have to say that I spotted multiple arabian ("Agrabah" )characters on the LoUS. We may be surprised , since i think i recall them saying about a world...
I don't think they ever intended for world crossing to be difficult. Getting to the LWM is supposted to be difficult (and it is). Going from magic realm to magic realm is a bit tricky, but you have a lot of options, including going through a magic door, using a magic item like a hat or silver slippers designed for realm travel, use a magic bean, use a magical weather event like a cyclone, or use a creature that can travel across realms like a mermaid or The White Rabbit. Sure we didn't see as much people traveling across realms in the first seasons flashbacks, but that is because the story had to introduce the methods, and you wouldn't want to do all of those in one episode.
Bonus: With most of the known western Europian fairytales being introduced, I have to say that I spotted multiple arabian ("Agrabah" )characters on the LoUS. We may be surprised , since i think i recall them saying about a world...
World-crossing really isn't the problem. Silver Slippers were rare, the hat was a rare and limited thing, the creatures were limited as well. The issue was when magic beans went from rare to "Oh, look I found another magic bean." Sure the Dark One isn't omniscient, but come on. The other portals seem to be controlled randomly or by the Merlin wand which I say is okay, but Rumple knew of the Apprentice and even if he didn't want one way travel, the wand works in both lands. There's no way the Apprentice is stronger than the Dark One.
Agreed regarding the ability to travel between magical realms (and I assume that the LUS is a magical realm). Rumple easily travelled from the LWC to the EF, which we saw in season 2. Zelena was able to easily travel between Oz and the EF, as was Mulan and Ruby. Traveling to between a magical and non-magical realm is limted, as the White Rabbit (and I assume Mermaids) are unable to cross into the Non-magical realm. Jefferson also stated that his hat had that same limitation. So Travel to the LWM generally requires either a Bean, the Apprentices wand,or getting to Storybrooke via other routes, then crossing the town line.
And to digress just a moment, we need to remember that Rumple was not wanting to JUST get to the LWM. He wanted to get there and be in a position to have his magic available. The bean did not provide that, and Rumple did not have the wand. and while the Apprentice is not as powerful as Rumple, he was (imo) powerful enough to prevent him from getting the wand.
I would suggest that futher discussion on realm travelling deserves it's own thread.