Board Thread:Character Discussion/@comment-28162607-20180101191335

This was, at least partially, inspired by the discussion abotu Drizella and Gothel's redemptions. As I said on that thread, ouat either hits or misses with redemption arcs. These are my opinions, in order of best redemption to worst. I have not seen OUATIW so I cannot comment on that one.

Ingrid- Without a doubt the best redemption on the show. There was complete acceptance of her crimes that she was a monster because of the actions she took, and she willingly paid the ultimate price for them.

Hook- His redemption is not perfect and some things left unaddressed (although given its an ensemble and plot heavy show I can understand that) but it did happen. There was no blaming his actions on others, he saw himself as the problem- "I'm the problem, I was weak, I went dark, I succumbed to darkness, I did terrible things, I'd do anything to take it back" and shows immense remorse and self loathing. His first step towards redemption was taking a boatload of people, including two people who had just tried to kill him, to his worst nightmare to save a boy he did not know and since then he kept on doing selfless things. He may have been inspired by Emma to change but he didn't change for her, as shown in his willingness to do the right thing even if it did not involve Emma at all or it meant losing/hindering his chances of getting with her. His original motive was the guilt over hurting Baelfire. He has reconciled with some of his victims and made it up to them, Belle, Ursula, Neal, who he thought to be Ariel, Aurora, Charming (in the case of killing his father) and has faced consequences for his actions. I also feel like Hook was a more redeemable character from season 2 but thats another discussion. Dislike Hook all you want, but you cannot say he has not changed.

Zelena- Her redemption was honestly such a pleasant surprise. She did two incredibly sefless acts (killing Hades and getting rid of her magic) and consistently put Robin first. Yes she backslid by siding with teh Queen but in the end she did make the right choice (and I kind of cannot blame her for that even if it was wtong). I did not believe they could pull off a convincing redemption in such a short space of time but they did. I only wish her rape of Robin was addressed and don't like her having custody of Robyn.

Arthur- Another pleasant surprise. He gets side eyed for initially only helping Hook to get into the Good Place, but as the episode progressed he did risk his life (death?) to stop the lost soul from destroying the book. And then he denied himself paradise to rule the Underworld justly. I wish his rape and abuse of Gwen had been brought up (and I understand if people view him as unforgiveable because of this) but at least he did get some comuppence in the form of.... you know.... death.

Ursula- I like how they showed Ursula putting her evil past behind her. Her flashbacks show that she was redeemable as she did not want to hurt people as a young girl. She put her past behind her and decided to dedicate her life to building her relationship with her father. The reason she is so low down is because of her remark that Hook made her the villain she is, which shows a lack of accepting responsibility.

Neal-Oh, Neal. At least, he did get he did face consequences for his actions by dying, but my issue is the narrative doesn't seem to recognise that him sselling Rumple into slavery and endangering the whole of SB (and this was knowingly) was wrong. Also, him half helping to clean up a mess he started doesn't really make him a hero. And there is his whole relationship with Emma, which was portrayed as bad in season 2 but romanticised from season 3 onwards, and he repeatedly stated that he "did not have a choice" in what he did to her. Note: I do not think Neal is necessarily a villain, but he was not a hero and he did some pretty awful things.

Regina- I will try to condense this but I can write 5 pages on why Regina's "redemption" does not work. Throughout 3A Lana portrayed Regina as beginning to show remorse and it was promising, but this was smashed to pieces with "I should be overflowing with regret but I;m not because it got me my son". Not regretting anything because it worked out well for you is not good; it is very selfish. She has not shown any regret for what she did to anyone nor does she even remember what she did because she does not care. There are four big problems with Regina's "redemption". The first the amount of victim blaming and whitewashing in it; Snow was a brat and selfish so obviously deserved what she got. If Regina had not cast the Curse, Emma would have been weak (which is just a fancy way of saying that she deserved it), Regina's abuse of Snow taught her how to have hope. This is justifying Regina's crimes with "they benefitted her victims". The second is a lack of remorse, apologies or consequences. She admitted to not regretting anything because it got her Henry, which is selfish. She has not apologised to Emma for ruining her life, or even told her that she killed Graham in a jealous fit. She has not had to apologise to the townspeople for depriving them of their free will for years. The only apologies were to Marco (totally insincere), Belle (which was a maniulation) and the EQ's apology to Snow (which was too little too late). She has her power, the unconditional love and support of her victims, her mansion etc. The third problem is a lack of change. She still does bad, the narrative just shows it as okay. In season 4 she enslaved Sidney after keeping him trapped for over a year, tried to kill Marain, tried to rape Robin via rewriting the book, sexually assaulted Belle for fun and attacked Lily with a knife. In season 5 she used the dagger to abuse Emma. In season 6 she brutally murdered WR!Snowing. These are not the actions of a hero. And the fourth problem is her entire redemption is selfishly motivated. She admits as much in seasons 4 ("Does it count if you do good hoping to be redeemed" and said something about she hoped if she did good the universe would reward her) and 5x23 ("if I revert I lose everyone I care about"). That's not sustainable change. These are just the mini versions of my argument, I can expland them if you need me to.

Rumpelstitlskin- I only placed Regina above him because she at least tried to change. Rumple did not. He allied with the heroes in season 3 and 6B to fight a common enemy. Once that was done, he went right abck to being an evil, scheming bastard.

So now that I've done mine, who do you think had the best and worst redemptions on the show? 