Board Thread:Character Discussion/@comment-34360784-20180116101248/@comment-25375217-20180119021415

CoolDudeAl wrote: DatNuttyKid wrote: CoolDudeAl wrote: FrancisPaul wrote: A few points 1) Despite what WHook said, the Wish Realm is NOT a realm about the Dark Curse being or not being cast. It is a realm where Emma is not the Savior. Period. That is what Queenie wished for, that's what we saw. WHook has ZERO chance to know whatever happened to EF Hook, so his claim that their lives were the same up to a point has no value, it was minor dialogue that can't serve for us to base the whole dynamics of the WR on.

'''The writers specifically put in that dialog, so we wouldn't be having the arguement we are having now. Why else would they have him say that?'''

''' The writers also specifically put in the dialog that the Wish Realm was fake. Multiple times. The characters DO NOT understand how the Wish Realm works and that has been repeatedly proven and shown. If they put in the dialog when it is later proven to be false, the reason they included it would be to further cement that already painfully obvious point. '''

2) This was already discussed (not that it can't be brought up again, fine). Just like the discussion about WSmee being or not being named William. The thing is we DO NOT know. We have no valid source, and if even Gold calling Belle Mrs. Gold isn't enough for her to be renamed as Belle Gold then we most definitely CANNOT go around assuming names or whatever else are interchangeable between EF and WR. As everyone else pointed, WRoland doesn't exist, for instance, meaning that who can say that EF Alice exists? Couldn't EF Hook's grandparents have had one daughter while WHook's grandparents had two? People can have more or less children in one reality or another.

'''We have no proof that anyone's name was changed in the Wish Realm, so I disagree about how to handle WSmee as well, now that you pointed that out. WRoland doesn't exist because Marian died before he was born. It doesn't mean he wouldn't have been named Roland, if he had been born. WHenry is still named Henry, and that really makes no sense considering Regina and her reason for naming him that.'''

''' But just because Henry is named Henry doesn't mean Roland WOULD have been named Roland. That's not evidence. That's an assumption and a huge one. It is not encyclopedic nor reliable to say, "Just because it's been true every time means it will always be true forever!" If that were the case, Robin would be 28 years older. Roland would have been born. Stealthy would have been dead. Etc. '''

3) Ages vary. History vary. Why should we pretend that anything remained the same then? Apparently, there are still seven dwarves, but no WHappy. I mean, the whole WR is probably one of the hugest plot holes in history, but the wiki can't use that as an excuse to treat information as it suits better or more "comfortable". The policies and logics state that nothing can be added unless we have a source. That alone should be enough for us to avoid including any information that was not explicitly presented. About names, let's remember that the subjects didn't even know David's name in EF (as proved in 213), because he went by James. Yet, 611 shows that he was already called Prince David in WR. So, anyone could argue that Alice could be an alias because she was wanted for murder or whatever. She could be known as Alice there and actually be named Gertrude in EF. Who knows?

'''You are right that the Wish Realm does vary before the Dark Curse was cast, but all the variance is so Emma doesn't have to become the Savior, so there is no reason for events to be different before her parents (Snow and David) are even born. As we know, Hook is hundreds of years older than Snow and David, so to say that his mother is going by an Alice in WR, and not in normal EF, is just ridiculous.'''

''' What does Stealthy surviving have to do with Emma becoming the Savior? What does Marian dying have to do with Emma becoming the Savior? There is no consistent logic to the Wish Realm. It's been repeatedly proven that assumptions made about the Wish Realm are dangerous and likely to be wrong. With that in mind, as an encyclopedia that strives to represent factual information, it is not only safer but more reliable to our readers to not claim facts that we can't back up. ''' Answered in bold. Answered in bold underline. My only comment is if the character's dialog means nothing (and the dialog comes directly from the writers), than how can we trust anything on the show? Guess we should just delete everything on all the pages then. This is called a "slippery slope" argument. Also a logical fallacy.

It's only an issue when there's precedent for the character being wrong. We know that Rumple has a good idea of how the Dark One works, so we can trust whatever he says about that. It seems that Regina has a good idea of how the Dark Curse works, so we can pretty much trust whatever she says about that. However, repeatedly it has been shown that the characters do not understand the Wish Realm.

Furthermore, the statements you're citing are vague in and of themselves, even barring the pre-existing Wish Realm debacle. How would Wish Hook know what Hook's mother's name is?