Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-25926288-20170429134340/@comment-31564770-20170714034410

ArcaneDust17 wrote: DracoWombat wrote: KnocknickKnock wrote: It has been a while sense I have been on this thread and there is some things wrong with people statements.

1, Zeleena's pendant didn't have the power to break the laws of magic it was used as a focal point to combine the magic from Regina's heart, Rumples Brain, Neal's Innoncence and David's Courage. That was the power that broke the laws of magic. I mean not to be mean but did you not watch Season 3B. That was like 99% of what happened in Season 3. Otherwise Zeleena wouldn't have needed those things to open a time portal.

2. The comparison between Emma and Regina's light magic against each other have never been brought up. Thus it isn't Canon that Emma's light magic is stronger than Regina's. Whose magic is stronger is nothing more than fan speculation.

3. Glinda said only the most powerful user(Provager) of light magic can defeat Zeleena. Then David ask her if she could defeat Zleena and she states her magic isn't strong enough it never was. Then Snow suggest Emma and Glinda says if she is as powerful as you claim then sure she could defeat Zeleena.

4. Zeleena was only more powerful than Regina while she had the pendant. Even then Light Regina trumped her in power. Regina clearly states only a magic stronger than Zeleena could stop her. She says this when Her and Emma are in the hospital putting up barriers.

5. Feats trump statements clear as day. Let me point out the times statements were wrong:

-Regina claimed she couldn't defeat Zeleena and then proceeded to defeat her.

-Regina and Zeleena claimed Regina didn't have the power to use the wand and then Regina uses the Wand.

-The Black Fairy says she underestimated Zeleena.

-Rumple is caleed the most powerful dark magic user of all time and then we found out that would be Black.

-People stated Emma magic was stronger than Zeleena's and yet she failed to break Zeleena's spell and got knocked away with a wave of the hand.

-Emma was said to have the most powerful magic of all True love magic. She failed to overpower Elsa in power. She couldn't bring down the Ice wall and She couldn't bring down the Ice monster. Even Ingrid herself overpowered Emma.

With Feats you either succeeded or failed in doing something. It is fact, it happened. Statements can be wrong. People can overestimate or underestimate people. Notto say Statements shouldn't be take into consideration but those statements still need action to back them up.

Glinda's... Not exactly the most reliable narrator. She's never even faced Zelena before. She's been wrong before.

The heart, the brain, the courage and the True Love Baby are ingredients for a spell, but it's the pendant that allowed Zelena to create the spell. By Rumpel's own admission, "time travel spells have been written but never cast". Anyone can create a ingredient list for a Time Travel spell but only Zelena was able to do it, because of the pendant. Once she loses it she doesn't even attempt another. Many spells need ingredients but no one besides Zelena with the pendant was able to cast it.

Emma's more powerful than Regina. This has been stated over and over. Product of True Love, wasn't able to get her heart ripped by Cora and even when the Black Fairy ripped it it resisted. Savior Magic, and even by Regina's own admission in 3x17. Emma's just magic dumb.

In a show where feats depend on other factors such a speed and skill, and primarily the plot, statements are more reliable, especially because statements are far more consistent.

- Regina used Zelena's highly specific weakness. Zelena defeated Regina every time they were fighting with the same stats (post-pendant, and Queenie doesn't count).

- The wand was a wonky plot device and it didn't even have anything to do with power. It was supposedly about being wielded by both Good and Evil, then it became about Belief Magic. Now anyone can use the Apprentice's Wand. It's a plot device that's best left buried.

- Say what you will about Black, she's a pretty cunning enemy and one  more person in the entirety of consistent statements that affirms that Zelena is more powerful than Regina.

- Emma's way lower on the skill scale than Zelena, the two aren't even comparable. Zelena's an accomplished witch, whereas Emma's barely learned how to teleport objects.

- Emma never failed to outmatch Elsa in magic, especially because Emma and Elsa never faced off and because ''Elsa doesn't even have magic. ''Ice Magic is something, spellcasting is something else. Not comparable. Again, Ingrid overpowered Emma at a time when Emma had barely learned she had magic. The span of the seasons doesn't make it seem so, but at the time of 4A, Emma had been actively using magic for ''about a month at most. ''Ingrid also outmatched Regina, so that works against you.

Feats work for the plot, statements work for the plot. But statements in Once are consistent, whereas feats are inconsistent. When talking about TV, there's this thing called Occam's Razor. The simplest possibility is more likely to be true. And it's simpler to admit that statements are true unless said otherwise than try to look for clues in a show that's infamous for its inconsistent magic rules. See, the heart-ripping thing is just another example of the writers not keeping track of their own canon. In season 5 Regina is able to remove Emma's heart. So... what the hell? Cora wasn't able to do this but Regina is? I don't get it. Don't get me wrong, I love the show. I just wish the writers would keep better track of their ideas/canon/stories. Because there are a ton of things in the show that just don't track well with already established canon.

Just wanna throw in a quick thing here that Emma let Regina take her heart. She gave Regina permission, so she wouldn't have her anti-heart ripping magic defense up because she wanted it to happen to save Hook. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Hades also take Emma's heart, without her permission? Maybe that's because he didn't give her warning. He just went right for it and it did surprise her. Cora, on the other hand, gave a speech about how she was gonna give Regina Snow's heart, so Emma knew what was happening before she threw herself in Mary Margaret's place. Emma has spent like no time studying magic. She doesn't know any serious spells or rituals or anything that requires prep. All her serious magic is operated on instinctual triggers. There's no way she has a heart-protection spell precast on herself that autotriggers when someone tries to take her heart. She does it in the moment, subconsciously. With Regina, there was no danger so it didn't trigger. With Hades, there was 0 warning of danger and by the time she knew what was happening it was too late. With Cora, she knew exactly what was up and sacrificed herself anyways, that was definitely enough to make it happen.

TL;DR Regina got permission, Hades surprised her, Cora did neither so she couldn't take Emma's heart.