Board Thread:Character Discussion/@comment-25926288-20170805235523/@comment-28162607-20170806093707

Lady Junky wrote: Aine1989 wrote: I am going to dabble in a bit of fandom psychology. PLease not I am NOT saying "all fans of X or Y think this" I am talking about BAs.

First off, people may dislike these characters because of personal reasons, which is understandable. Rape victims are of course going to be made uncomfortable by the presence of Regina and Rumple, two canon rapists, and Killian, who has had some less than perfect moments. Likewise, abuse victims may be made uncomfortbale by any of these characters, given that R&R are abusers and in a different context Hook's actions could possibly be abusive.

Let's start with Killian. I think we can all agree that the "Killian is a selfish, unredeemed sociopath" has no basis in actual canon. However, certain groups of fans want a reason to dislike him. Rumple fans dislike him because he does not grovel at Rumple's feet and has not apologised for being mean to him in 2x04, or for "stealing" Milah (gag). Since Killian does not forgive Rumple and act like Rumple is the second coming of Christ, he is viewed as a sociopath (even though that is not what a sociopath is). In addition, Rumple stans seem to resent Killian because he got the development they wanted Rumple to have. Rather than admitting that s4-6 Rumple is 100% in character, they blame Killian for 'ruining' him. There is also a bit of overlap between Swanfire shippers and  Rumple stans, and BA swanfire shippers hate Hook for "stealing" Emma. They hate Hook because they believe his place is where Neal should be, and so make up hate to justify their dislike of him.

Many Regina stans are also SQ shippers who hate Hook for getting in the way of their ship. And the fact he is not overly friendly to Regina does seem to play a part. Which may explain why they project all Regina's flaws onto Killian, even when they are simply not true eg. "Hook has no regret" despite Hook repeatedly showing regret while Regina has admitted to having no regrets.

Please note I am not saying Hook is perfect or everyone should like him (he is far from perfect and has no shortage of flaws), I am explaining the basis of the mouth foaming Killian hate, most of which is not even hating on the acutal character, but a fanon version of the character.

On to why people dislike Rumple. The answer is, because we should? This is like asking "Why don't people root for Moriarty's happy ending on Sherlock?" Because why would people root for the villain of the story to be happy? From what I can tell, people dislike Regina more than Rumple because at least with Rumple, the narrative does not pretend he is a good person. I disagree in light of 6b but can see what they mean.

And many Killian fans dislike him because why would one like their favourite character's abuser?

And then there is Regina. I think the reason so many Hook fans dislike Regina is because Killian fans also tend to be Emma fans (and a good portion of them like Emma more than Killian). I know much of the reason I dislike Regina is because I love Emma. Also fans of the Charmings as well as Emma and Killian dislike Regina because their characters are often done a disservice by Regina (Snow, Henry and Emma are the biggest victims of this, Killian and Charming less so) and are frustrated by how the Charming family dynamic has been dumped in favour of Snow Queen/Regel Believer.

I feel like Regina and Rumple fans formed an opinion of their characters in season 1 and 2 and now refuse to change their minds about them, despite the show portraying them (Rum more so than Reg) as terrible people.

However this is not a black and white situation; there are Regina fans who like Hook (some even multiship SQ and CS), some people who dislike Regina and stan Rumple, etc.

This is exactly why I don't like this kind of thread.

You're just giving us a copy paste of all your arguments from the previous threads. We got it: you're fan of CaptainSwan, and you're a Regina hater.

But, I think the very worst of your whole argument is the following: "I feel like Regina and Rumple fans formed an opinion of their characters in season 1 and 2 and now refuse to change their minds about them, despite the show portraying them (Rum more so than Reg) as terrible people." -> so what? Are you calling Regina and Rumple fans blind? Like we got our opinion back from S1 and S2, and we can't see how terrible they are? '''In my experience, SOME (as I stated at the beginning of my first reply) fans of R&R refuse to acknowledge how bad they are eg. "Regina didn't rape Graham/She was a great mother and Henry was a brat/Leopold deserved to die/She didn't sexually assault Belle!" or "Belle deserved to be stalked and harrassed by Rumple/Rumple didn't do anything wrong in season 4". For the third time, this is not all ERs/Dearies'''

But at the same time, you're telling us: "I think we can all agree that the "Killian is a selfish, unredeemed sociopath" has no basis in actual canon. However, certain groups of fans want a reason to dislike him." -> basically, Hook did nothing wrong comparing to Regina and Rumple? And he did nothing wrong since S2 comparing to Regina or Rumple? But then, you're the one implying we don't see the characters as they are? '''Hey not ONCE  did I say that he never did anything wrong. He just was never as bad as R&R were.'''

"Rape victims are of course going to be made uncomfortable by the presence of Regina and Rumple, two canon rapists, and Killian, who has had some less than perfect moments." You clearly gave us your "real opinion" here: Regina and Rumple are atrocious people but Killian is just someone with "some less than perfect moments"? Really? '''When I said "less than perfect" I meant moments that could be perceived as rape-y, especially by rape victims. I apologise for not being clearer. At the same time, what did you want me to do? Say that  Killian is a rapist when he is not?''' To make it short, your entire argumentation shows how "unvalid" is your opinion for this thread. At least, to me. You're saying Regina and Rumple fans are unable to see how "terrible persons" they are since S2; but at the same time, you clearly prove us that you're acting the same with Hook? You clearly can't expect us to take your argumentation seriously with your main argument is that some fans "can't see" some characters how they really are. The simple fact that you accuse Regina/Rumple of doing wrong things, but all you can do about Hook is attenuated your points ("some less than perfect moments" / "could possibly be abusive") is the problem here. '''When the HELL did I say Hook is perfect? He is not. But he is not a rapist nor an abuser and R&R are both. Sorry if that puts a damper on your mood.'''

In your way of thinking, your basic opinion of Regina/Rumple/Hook is the real one, while the others are fans who hate Hook for no canon reason, and they are blind about the two other. Again, you seriously can't expect us to take your seriously with that way of thinking. '''If you bothered to actually read my reply you could see that  I said "Hook has no shortage of flaws" and I said that there is reason to dislike him. '''

"Why are Hook, Regina, and Rumple viewed differently?" is supposed to be the theme of discussion. Not showing hate to these characters, but why they are viewed different. All these characters made bad things, and since S2. ALL of them. And yes, it includes Hook. '''Please show me where I said Hook is a flawless perfect angel who never did anything wrong in his life. Oh wait, I did not.''' What I was trying to do was explain why certain sections of the fandom dislike Hook, Rum or Reg. And in my experience, Hook is so sidely bashed because he gets in the way of ships (and I say again, Ii am not saying there are not issues with Hook and there are no valid reasons to dislike him). I am sorry for not articulating it better.