Board Thread:Character Discussion/@comment-34563899-20180202235154/@comment-31231929-20180206001716

Lady Junky wrote:

Emillian Swanones wrote:

Lady Junky wrote:

Emillian Swanones wrote:

Lady Junky wrote:

Emillian Swanones wrote:

Lady Junky wrote:

Emillian Swanones wrote:

Lady Junky wrote:

Emillian Swanones wrote: Rumple is definitely a villain pre-season 5 and his relationship with Milah was very toxic. I'm in agreement with Aine1989 in that Rumple was abusive towards her. He thinks of her only as Bae's mother (using her love for him to get her to obey) and not as her own person and made life-altering decisions without her which led to her being miserable and a social outcast. Both of them are terrible parents, but I think Milah was very very slightly better because she left Bae with who she thought would be good for him, was planning on going back for him when he was older, and regretted her decision to leave so much it was her unfinished business. Rumple let Bae fall through the portal and didn't find him for 300 years because he was too afraid to give up his power. He also killed a bunch of people in front of him and isolated him which could have affected his mental health.

Rumple has manipulated, lied, controlled, killed, decieved, abused, etc since the beginning of the show. There is no way he isn't a villain. Please, read my previous posts. You clearly missed them for just giving the sam arguments as Aine, which are already proven wrong.

Also, we're talking about Rumple & Milah's couple life. Do not use example of Rumple being a bad father as the DO, because that's completely out of our discussion. Use example of Rumple as a father while he was with Milah.

In all cases, Rumple never abused Milah, and she has always been freed to leave him. As she stopped caring about Rumple & Bae... Heck, that was literally in her casting call. So, let's not pretend she cared about Bae. She did not. She left, and after years she just felt guilty.

Guily is not caring.

I actually did read them, I just didn't agree with you. Another reason why I think Rumple was abusive was because he killed Milah for rejecting him.

And this has absolutely nothing to do with our discussion. We're talking about their couple life, and how Milah keeps abusing him. As far as we're concerned, Milah left Rumple by the time he killed her, that's not a part of their couple life/daily life. Despite how wrong it is, it has nothing to do with the discussion.

And, in any case, it would change the years of abuse she did to him.

I'm talking about their relationship as a whole. Just because she left him, doesn't mean his actions weren't abusive. He created a toxic environment, which she escaped from, and then killed her. Twice, I might add. That is abusive in my book.

He never created a toxic encironment, Milah did it by herself from the moment she told him he should be dead. At this time, Rumple never did anything to harm her, or even blame her, despite what she was doing. And she escaped after years of abuse. She did not leave cos Rumple was abusive, she left cos she was unhappy and bored. That's not the same. And it is not a bad thing in itself. If she was unhappy, she was right to leave. But the way she left? Please, that was just horrible.

Whatever did Rumple afterwards is bad, but not a part of their couple life. So again, out of our context of discussion ^^

His actions turned their family into social pariahs. Which led her to being unhappy and yes, bored. It is the same in this case (the unhappy part). And I really think that the entirety of their relationship should be taken into account, not just their couple life. Their couple life is what matters. We're talking about how Milah was a domestic abuser. From the moment she left him, they stopped being a couple.

And no, his actions turned HIM into a social pariah. Milah could have left, like really. She could have just take Bae and leave the social pariah. She prefered to rest and turn into an abuser like the rest. Blaming him for whatever he was doing. That's the very definition of a toxic relationship, and it came from Milah.

And then, she should complain about how unhappy and bored she was? By repetitively abusing Rumple, she just ended up hurting herself. Also, she should neglect Bae because of that?

Many abuse victims feel like they cannot leave their situation, even if they are able to. This was the case for Milah. I never said she should neglect Bae.

Except that Milah is not an abuse victim, so what was her reason to not leave exactly?

Rumple was completely under Milah's constant blaming and abuse. He nearly killed Fendrake cos SHE asked him.

Keeping repeating that she is a victim abuse does not make her one. Rumple did nothing wrong to her. He did not even had the strenght to stand against her. Just show your heavily dislike of Rumple, and your actual support of a domestic abuser.

Rumple shut her down when she wanted to have a discussion with him about leaving their village and starting over, he humiliated her in front of the people at the tavern when he lectured her on her responsibilities (Milah was absolutely wrong to leave Bae at home, but Rumple could have talked to  her about what she did in private or he could have waited for her to get home and not leave their son outside the tavern), and signed away her reproductive rights when he sold their second born child. Yes, Milah could have had a second child with someone else, but in the society they lived in, that would have most likely been taboo and she would have been ridiculed. When Milah found out what Rumple did, she was very, very upset. And even though you keep saying it's out of context, Rumple killing Milah because she rejected him is definitely a sign of abuse. It doesn't matter that it had been years since she left him, they were still technically married at that point.

Milah did say mean things to him, I'm not denying that, but Rumple crippling himself led to her being mocked for having a cowardly husband aka a toxic situation. She did say he should have died, but she later took it back and said she didn't really wish he died, just that he fought. Milah lived for years in a toxic environment (I'm including how the village treated her, not just what her home life was like)  that was created by her husband, which made her depresssed, so I can understand her being mean to him.

And I don't hate Rumple, I'm definitely not a fan, but I don't hate him. I am trying to be objective and look at the situation from both Milah and Rumple's perspective. Both of them contributed to the toxic environment and neither is blameless, but I firmly believe taking away her right to a second child without having to suffer from possible backlash due to second child being born out of wedlock and killing her is worse than shaming, ridiculing, and mocking because of how she was being treated by others because of his actions during the war.