Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-4519633-20141022032431/@comment-25926288-20160506182322

Mr.Carvalho wrote: Eskaver wrote: I think one of the lovely issues with the show that even rears its head here is the shifts and "twists" that the show presents.

In Season 1, we had an evil Queen adept at magic that defeated even Maleficent. She rivaled a man cursed to be Seer and Sorcerer, but could never hold as much power as he. This man was matched by an equally powerful force of good known as Reul Ghorm.

In Season 2, we had the Queen equaled to none other than her Mother, who through experience and manipulation rivaled the Dark One, but never achieved more than her daughter. Reul Ghorm could at best keep the Queen at bay, but the Dark One wasn't exactly her match. The Saviour displayed raw power to dispatch the Queen's mother.

In Season 3, we had Peter Pan, a boy enveloped by Fairy Dust (the power of Neverland), rival this Dark Wizard. We even get word of a powerful mage named Merlin. We also had a wicked Witch who almost could rival the Dark Wizard himself and who thrashed the Queen, though having a large weakness. The Savior possessed great power that surpasses even the Queen, although she (the Queen) gained new abilities.

I always put Seasons 1-3 in its own little separate part before the Disney fanfiction started, lol. You could already see the space between Rumple and Regina grow. It sort of went (excluding Emma and Merlin):

1. Rumple and Pan

2. Zelena

3. Regina, Cora, Blue

4. Maleficent, other witches

5. Other fairies

Then season 4 hit and the Frozen magic (which was awfully too powerful in the film) came to Storybrooke. You know how I know? All the magic users in 1 to 3 had small feats of ripping hearts, immobolization, telekinesis, plant control, fire magic, and teleporting. Regina and Emma together stopped a town-destroying diamond, together moved clouds in the sky. Regina caused a small scale (building sized) earthquake. Emma could see across worlds and cause a formation of a broken bridge mid-fall to save herself. Rumple had created a potion that would shield Storybrooke. Cora used a staff to shield a part of the Enchanted Forest.

Everything was relatively small without added items. Then, Frozen's overpowered and poorly explained magic came in and threw everything for a loop. In Frozen, Elsa randomly starts a massive blizzard and covers her kingdom in snow and ice. She sings a castle into creation. She creates "life?". She freezes Anna's heart (okay, that one's reasonable). Then, they bring her into Once where the biggest feat was Regina shaking a building, Regina and Emma moving clouds, Belle and Cora using items to save a town-sized piece of land, and Regina and Emma saving the town.

Then comes Elsa who out of the blue creates a gigantic wall around the town just in her own. Plus, powers from the film. This already broke the magical system in place because the writers then had to increase everyone else. (Frozen really doesn't explain Elsa's powers).

Before, in Seasons 1-3, everyone was pretty much "Street Level" to "Building-Busters" meaning these people are threats to areas no bigger than a block or so. As we've seen, Regina shook a rather large building. Without items, they were at most threats to a building full of people or at most to anything up to the size of a building.

Then, you can see that in Frozen, Elsa's pretty much past Street level and past Building-buster to personal power that could affect a city/ castle town. She easily built a building too.

Now add Ingrid, who's pretty much Elsa plus some of Once's witchcraft. A better blend into the show, but her powers still didn't fully match Once's. It takes Regina and Emma to move clouds. It takes Jafar potions and external power to create a small storm. It takes Elsa and Ingrid a temper tantrum and there's already a massive storm incoming. It takes Regina and Emma to stop a town-sized threatening diamond. Ingrid freezes an entire castle town without a sweat. See the problem?

Season 4 also showed that Emma and Regina (two at least building busters) best the two in small scale magic. Ingrid and Elsa might create walls and storms (town sized/ a couple of blocks), but all the rest is just pretty much there version of magic blasts and telekinesis.

Even Maleficent didn't get that upgrade. Mal could cause the whole town to fall asleep, but that took a few blasts from her staff and not just a wave of her hand.

If we ignore 4a, then the power levels actually stay pretty normalized until we have to run into the Apprentice, Merlin and all the shenigans. The Apprentice pretty much made Rumple look like a fool, making portals to lands without magic and doing so in the LWM, while Rumple couldn't. Merlin caused an entire desert to turn into a lush forest and created the tower with one touch.

Rumple (and Zoso) have never come close to showing such a feat. The Sorcerer Merlin was showed and has shown far more magical prowess and powers than every Dark One (even Emma). So basically, the power levels and magnitude didn't match up.

The Dark One was a powerful sorcerer who did fireballs and choked people and was rivaled by slightly weaker witches. Merlin casually turns deserts into forests. One of these things is not like the other. But this is more of a plot problem because it shows that the writers didn't plan for Merlin or this whole Dark One connection (or the Frozen stuff, but we already knew that) because the wacky powerscaling and stuff we have to do. I understand your argument about the introduction of "frozen" in the series, but you have to take into consideration that many characters not used the power of destruction at the level of a kingdom simply because there was no need or did not want. For example it is said several times in season 2, which Regina had enough power to leave the city in ashes; cora with a hand gesture made a crater in EF; regina did an earthquake in a building with ease; Regina and Emma make a eclipse (which has nothing to do with the clouds) they blocked the moon somehow, which is an impressive fact; Maleficent burned an entire forest with her fire and one tree was still on fire after years, cora protected an entire land from the curse, Maleficent made a whole city to sleep, regina controlled an entire forest to threaten the bad guys to give their hair;heart also "disappeared" with a ship easily. So, the way I see it, these feats are comparable, in magnitude, to Ingrid's. Sure, sure, (I never heard the :"city to ashes thing"). Cora made a hole in a ground, nothing too big. Reigna did shake a building, yes. But none of those match freezing an entire kingdom.

Maleficent burned a forest by, guess what? Being a humongous dragon that spews fire. Nothing with her own magic. Cora protected the land because of that staff she had, not her own personal power. Maleficent put everyone to sleep with help from her staff, but that's sort of debateable. Regina controlled fringe edges of the forest (aka several trees, but not an entire forest.  And yeah, Cora used a cloaking spell for a ship.

Ingrid used no magical item, just waved her hand to freeze and entire kingdom. That makes her broken.