Board Thread:Spoilers!/@comment-27060727-20170803053127/@comment-25926288-20171026184917

Yeah, thinking it through, Alice is too concentric in her and Rumple's plot to make her a strong LGBT character. She could be, but I think she's not the best candidate as Drizzy has like nothing going on.

I'm totally expecting Henry and Ivy having more "chemistry" or whatever than with Jace. I think it was a major flaw to tout Henry and Jace as an adventure of massive true love, especially in the way they showed it. Talks about chemistry aside, the bigger issue is that there's no intrigue.

Snow White and David are established fairytale lore. They have to fight in Storybrooke and Enchanted Forest to be with one another, always! While they were both a little "too goody" at first, you can see that even though that was the case, you couldn't help but root for them to be with one another again.

Rumple and Belle are sort of established fairytale lore. Their fight is more emotional and internal with less physically caused angst. It was a little one-sided, but they tried to balance it out. We'll see more this episode.

Robin and Regina aren't established, but outside by the writers essentially: "They are true love! You'll see!" Then, they fail to deliver on the potential intrigue.

Henry and Jace are a mix of all three in some respects. The issue that plagues them; however, is the bad parts of the others, in some respect.

'''A. Henry and Jace are a little "too goody". '''

- What I mean is that their infatuation felt a bit forced and it was barely established why they would like each other. Snow and David fought this issue by being separated often, creating angst. So far, Henry and Jace have been (or seem to be) side by side in every episode (minus one, yes, spoilers for other episodes, maybe). A separation creates angst, develops them individually, etc.

B. Henry and Jace's individual goals and morals, etc, don't match.

-  Yeah, Rumple's goal of getting his son fought against him accepting Belle's true love. This was ambiguous, but purposely so. Henry tried to prevent Jace's attempt at revenge because.... I don't see how Henry's goals are conflicting with Jace's goals to create angst. Belle wants to be the hero, wants true love, wants Rumple to change. Rumple wants power, wants his son, doesn't think he can change. They love each other, but find themselves at odds. Henry and Jace seems to agree on much of everything. Also, Rumple and Belle were separated in SB, so we sort of saw him fight for Belle. Henry and Jace aren't having any issue with seeing one another. Henry's "dead" family angst isn't strong enough.

C. The promise of "Epicness"

- Not much to say there. Gonna use correct terminology this time.

- If Ella and EF Henry are going to stand side by side, with Ella no longer being weak of morality, fighting in NEF. There's little angst. If Jace is going to ignore Henry (for the most part) and have most of her focus on Victoria and Lucy, while being side by side/ free without any conflict with Henry....there's little angst.

TL; DR: All in all, there's little separation angst, little morality/character angst, just "we're cursed" angst which isn't strong enough. If Snow and David were next to each other in season 1 all the time, if Mary Margaret focused solely on protesting Regina, if Rumple and Belle agreed on 95% of issues, I doubt they'd be as strong a presence, even with "chemistry" and "acting".

Sorry for the partial tangent. Just thinking that Ivy and Henry will probably have valid plot angst and reasons for some thoughts presented here.