Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-25617908-20151229021726/@comment-1916997-20151229161313

Eskaver wrote: CoolDudeAl wrote: Eskaver wrote: CoolDudeAl wrote: Eskaver wrote: CoolDudeAl wrote: Eskaver wrote: If the show says it, then it's true until it's retconned. Retcon isn't bad. You can't use in-show universe to not say that show-wise it isn't a retcon. If so, then you are saying is that they are all liars, even when it makes no sense to lie. If we can't trust the show, then technically we should put it in every article that there's uncertainty......Oh wait, that's not how it works because it's true until it's not. I'm just saying people take way too much at face value. Lumiere is a character whom what he said we should have not put much stock into. He was a prisioner of Zelena, and he was going to say whatever Zelena needed him to, in order for Neal to open the vault. So to then come and be like "Look a retcon, because Lumiere said..." is just silly. It makes sense that Lumiere was never telling the truth given the curcumstances of the episode. I get we can't assume everything everyone says is a lie, but at the same time, we should be more careful when something is only heresay, and not shown to us. It is sort of a retcon and as I said it's not a bad thing at all. If you want, you can call it a change in plans, or whatever else. From the outside view, it is a retcon. From an inside view, the character wasn't reliable. But that's my point. We don't know if what they had Lumiere say was a change of plans, or they always intended for it to not be the truth. Like when Cora said Lancelot was dead, they always intended for that to be a lie. In storytelling, the audience is sometimes mislead, so that a surprise twist can happen. That doesn't mean that when you encounter a surprise twist the writer has retconed something or had a change of plans. It is simply a part of the storytelling process. And retconning is part of the writing process. The Lancelot debacle was the only time your point counts. There is no reason to lie or to expect a lie unless one lives a paranoid life. So the Queen of Hearts being Cora wasn't planned? Bae being Henry's dad wasn't planned? Etc. And we should expect lies from characters when they have no reason to be telling the truth. Lumiere is a perfect example, he was manipulating Neal and Belle, why should we believe anything he said was true? I'm guessing you directing them at Farerb because I said nothing about planning. We should not expect lies ever. Name villains who have lied in the show.....I'll wait (Exclude Cora). Lumiere wouldn't lie about something that affects nothing.

Almost all the villains (as well as the heroes for that matter) have lied at some point to someone. For examples: Hook lied to Bae, Greg lied to everyone, Tamara lied to Neal, Peter Pan lied to Henry, Cruella lied to Issac, Jafar lied to Ana. Lumiere lied because he needed Neal and Belle to believe he knew things about The Dark Ones vault, so Neal would open it. Anyway, if you don't expect characters to ever lie in fiction, I don't know what to tell you.