Board Thread:Character Discussion/@comment-4839682-20131003142941/@comment-23906605-20131009193445

TNOandXadric wrote: Regarding Snow:

1: I meant they were sleepy and tired-looking and only half-heartedly shouting along with Snow's supposedly impassioned speech (and then Regina made her presence known and they scattered in terror). I've seen more energy in high school debate teams.

1. I didn't see them sleepy and tired-looking but, hey, you did. So, next…

2. But that's the thing… the fact that Emma is a grown, strong, independent woman (which I completely agree she is) doesn't mean she can't still go through moments of complete hopelessness. And, to me, it was just Pan trying to break Emma, it was all part of Pan's overarching scheme. That's how I understood the whole thing: In season two, she found her parents. After they had some good family moments, she realized she was not an orphan anymore. But then, she loses Henry and it's logical to her (although not to me) that her parents are in way responsible for that. Then, she gets to Neverland. She is obviously upset with her parents -- maybe not even feeling or thinking of them as parents anymore -- and somehow that island makes her remember how hopeless she felt when she was an orphan. And that's how she is feeling right now.

Of course her true identity is not "a lost little orphan girl". But that's how Neverland makes her feel, she said it herself. Neverland, the lost boys crying, the look she saw in one of them, all of that reminds her of how she used to feel when she was "a lost little orphan girl". And somehow, Pan knows that. And that's what he's trying to do: make her think that no matter what she did in her life to overcome that and become "The savior", she is still that same little girl who could never understand why her parents gave her away.



I also believe (and hope) that another thing they're trying to do with that is to get Emma and the Charmings to figure out their relationship. Although Emma thought she had forgiven them for giving her away, she clearly hasn't (another thing Pan knows. Seriously, how does he know everything?). And thank goodness she hasn't because, to me, it all felt forced and badly written in season 2. But then, there was that amazing scene in "Lost Girl" when Pan told her she hadn't forgiven her parents and that that was good because now she would understand how Henry felt. And that when he was finished, she wouldn't just feel like an orphan, she would actually be one. He played two very interesting cards here: The "you blame your parents for leaving you, but you did the exact same thing to your son" and the "Ok, you feel like an orphan? How about we make that come true?" and those two remarks had an obvious effect on her, although she tried her best not to show it. I think making her realize those things is the first step the writers are taking to get Emma out of that funk and make her understand that she needs to believe in herself again so she can beat that little demon. And she was never going to be able to do that, if Pan hadn't forced her to feel all that.



3. Charming did opt for open and clear communication first. He tried to convince her that she had to fight for what was rightfully hers, that the Kingdom was hers. But Snow didn't want to listen. And she didn't say she didn't want to lead, she just didn't believe she had the capacity to do it. She didn't believe in herself, but Charming did, so he went to Rumplestiltskin. I also don't understand how they keep thinking going to him is the only way to solve their problems [sidenote: I think they judge Regina because of how she chooses to use her magic and for what purposes] but I didn't see his actions as "I'm a man, so I'll find a way to prove her I'm right", I saw it like "I'll do whatever it takes to make her believe in herself again". Charming himself has gone thorough something similar, not believing he was qualified to lead the confused people in Storybrooke ("We Are Both"), but Henry gave him a little push. He was not following the idea of "I'm a kid, so I know better", he was just trying to help Charming like Charming was trying to help Snow in "Lost Girl". The sword thing and lying to Snow was also not how I would've preferred the whole thing had gone down, but that's beside the point. And by the way, how the hell were the dwarfs being sexist and following the thought "we're men, we're better"? By agreeing to do whatever Snow decided?



Regina:



Regina is the kind of person who sees that results are not working and tries something new without really thinking it through. She thought she would help with the mermaid and she ended up making things worse. Same thing with the parchment. And what information did they get about Pan and the Lost Boys that Hook hadn't already informed them? Regina is active, but that doesn't mean she isn't also imprudent and reckless. The fact that she deals with the repercussions of her actions does not automatically make her more competent than the others. And Regina's actions did not get the map to work. Snow's actions, by overstepping boundaries and trying to talk to Emma, got the map to work. As for Charming, I believe he's hiding the wound because that would mean taking a bit of the focus on the whole we're-here-to-find-Henry idea. Stupid? Absolutely. But also kind of humble.



My thoughts on your experiment: First of all, I did not mean to say Regina is incompetent. I meant to say that being active just for the sake of being active without thinking of consequences did not justify what you said about Regina being much more competent than everyone else. Second of all, I don't think Emma would have ever considered breaking the rules. When Regina said "That's a risk I'm willing to take", Emma said "I'm not". She just went along because she had no say in the matter. In fact, no one had a say. Regina rudely took the parchment out of Emma's hand and enchanted it without taking anyone's opinion into consideration. And why, why would they want to follow rules laid down by a psychopathic immortal child? Because that psychopathic immortal child has their son under his possession. So far, they've heard Pan is a demon, Pan is someone they all should fear, that whole island is his trap, breaking his rules is unwise… so as mothers, both Emma and Regina have to think of the consequences. They have to think of what Pan could do to their son if he got angry at the fact that they tried to cheat. They had to stop and think for a minute. And Regina went right ahead and acted without thinking of any that. But fine, I'll play along. If, by any chance, Emma had been the one to decide to enchant the parchment, yes, I would be saying that she was acting thoughtlessly and recklessly. And why? Because that would mean she didn't think of any of those things and that she could be putting Henry's life in jeopardy.