Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-25926288-20160516005939/@comment-28162607-20160517173133

Toma Cre wrote: Aine1989 wrote:

2. "Her karma will still be there." She said this. She wants to be free of consequences. If she wanted to be a better person she could, oh I don't know, try to be a better person? Are you seriously saying that she has never tried?

Yes. What about when she undid Peter Pan's curse knowing that she would never see Henry again. Or when she saved Marian from the Snow Monster even though she could probably have let it kill Marian and nobody would know any better. Or when she was working desperately to save Marian from the Snow Queen's curse even though it would have benefited her to let Marian die from it. Or when she told Robin to bring Marian across the town line to save her life even though that meant she would never see Robin again.

Aine1989 wrote:

3. You realise that Killian had to work in order to ge that love in the first place. He had to start changing before anyone gave him the time of day! What has that got to do with anything? He worked for Emma's love, he got it and that's great for him. But that doesn't mean he is forgiven for his past sins to others like what he stated.

I meant that he had to work to get the SB gang to trust him-by taking them to NL, saving Henry, getting Emma. What I mean is he had to work to be the person they love, the person worthy of forgiving. How is that that much different from Regina had to do? She worked hard to be worthy of Henry's love. David was pretty mistrustful and critical of her until Camelot arc (he had that bromance with Hook pretty early on). She had to prove to the dwarves that she could defend the town etc.

Also, the problem with redeeming yourself because of one person is pretty problematic as others have pointed out. If you lose that one person then you have no reason to be good anymore. I don't think Hook has really proven himself or been tested yet in that he can be good for the sake of being good. He sacrificed himself to stop the DOs but that was also to save Emma. Perhaps if he had been separated from Emma a little longer we might have a better idea on how far he has gone in his redemption.

Sorry he was a little busy being tortured to help out! About Liam; he apologised and admitted she was right. If your SO came up to you and said 'Hey I think your sibling aka the only family you've ever known is lying to you' while said sibling was like 'No!' would you believe him or the SO? I am not blaming him for being a victim, but then victims don't deserve rewards either.

He got Snow out of the UW. Which wasn't really that important a step towards the goal of defeating Hades.

If Herc and Meg hadn't helped Snow defeat Cerberus, then there would be no way to enter Hades' lair (even after Hades left the underworld), so Hook would never have gotten those Storybook pages. So if you say Hook helped defeat Hades, then you can't discount Hercules' and Megara's role either.

Okay now you're nitpicking. You might as well say "Well if it wasn't for Cerberus killing Hercules in the first place then they never would have found Hades' liar and Hook never would have found the pages, so really Cerberus should get an extra chance at life!" Intent is everything. Cerberus certainly didn't have any intention of helping the SB gang in any way. Hercules, on the other hand, knew that Snow and family were going up against Hades to rescue Hook and he overcame his fear to help Snow face down Cerberus and kill it. This would ultimately lead to Hades' death (even though Hercules didn't know it at that time).

Would you agree that if a soldier took part in a small battle which was significant in tipping the scales for the larger war effort then the soldier deserves some credit for helping win the war?

My point is that Hook didn't really contribute much to the events that ultimately lead to Hades' defeat except for being the reason that the SB gang were in the underworld in the first place. So Hercules deserved a reward more than Hook did. I meant to elaborate more on Regina trying harder, don't know why I didn't.

Pan's curse-it was either that or be cursed.

All 3 Marian points-she spent the whole of 4b planning on erasing her from time so.....

About Regina 'working'-basically I feel Hook put more effort into his redemption than Regina did. By the end of 3A, Henry denied she was a villain because 'you're my mom.' Yet all she did was return his heart to him. Hook got them to, through and off Neverland and saved David and Neal with very little recognition from anyone other than Emma.

Again-that bromance was earned by saving his life. And reuniting him with his daughter. And encouraging Emma to forgive him and Snow.

In the UW once Emma was gone, Hook still sent up the pages. As far as he knew, he'd never see her again. He didn't have to save Storybrooke (for the fourth time) but he did. He has also told Ariel about what happened and freed the fairies (with Belle)-both events not involving Emma.

In season 4 he said to Emma-"I hope you never forgive me because that means you'll get this in time to save yourself." He doesn't want her to forgive him. He places her wellbeing over their relationship.

"to save Emma" and everyone else. He has also saved Snow, Neal, David and Henry and the entire town indirectly.

He made sure Meg got to safety not him. He could have used her as bait and escaped on his own. Instead, he was "her first, me second."

What I mean about Hook v Herc is that Hercules was really only in for helping save Hook. He didn't know about Hades in SB. If he was there and did help out then it would be a different case, but he wasn't there becaus he was getting his rewards. Partying up on Mt Olympus