Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-4519633-20141022032431/@comment-28211584-20161218045218

Eskaver wrote: In response to all,

1. Ursula's issues is her feats don't match her statements. Ursula says she can control all the seas, but we never saw it. Maleficent never is stated to be more powerful than her. Maleficent said that she was more useful and resourceful than Cruella and Ursula. Cruella and Ursula were just Rumple's pawns to get into town, afterwards he really didn't need them once he had Maleficent. IT wasn't about power, but manipulation and Maleficent can actually handle herself in manipulationg people (while Cruella and Ursula probably would try crude, basic ways). We see this when August is interrogated. Cruella and Ursula have no clue how to manipulate and torture effectively.

Erased a bunch due to me being inconsistent. Apprentice, Dragon, Black Fairy are speculative. The Apprentice has more magical knowledge as far as I'm concerned and he actually used magic in the LWM. Anytime he opened a door portal, he did so without the wand. That could be a retcon issue, but he did it nonetheless. So, that's impressive. He is clearly higher than the Mills. Apprnetice is like Blue and aren't confrontational with magic. Unlike Regina, they aren't going to whip out fireballs because that's not their style. The Dragon might not be that powerful, but Regina taking his heart deals nothing with power. Regina ripped out Pan's heart and he was clearly around Rumple's level. That just means that Regina was swift and caught them offguard. The same goes with her fights with Blue. They weren't fights. Blue tried a suprise attack it succeed, it failed. Means very little since it goes both ways.

You can't use certain plot elements and claim they are weak. Hook trapped Blue in the hat. As far as we know, you can't do anything but get trapped in the hat. The Apprentice was trapped. Emma and Ingrid would have been trapped. The Chernabog was trapped. I'm sure Rumple could easily be trapped. Blue has never teleported, so it's not like she could do anything.

Next, all magic battles and small moments are with speed or catching someone offguard. Regina caught a spell Blue casted. Okay. Nothing to it. Blue could free the Apprentice when Regina "couldn't". So, it's clear that if noone's trying to do things quickly, Blue does things that Regina cannot do.

So, a small restatement is Blue has tassled with Regina, sometimes Blue winning, sometimes Regina winning. And Blue is weaker than Rumple. I mean that's pretty much Regina, Zelena, or Emma in a nutshell. 1)you are speculating about what maleficent was really saying when she talk to rumple ,she was clearly saying that ursula couldnt stop the whole town with her magic and saying that she is more useful because she is more powerful/skillful/ not limited (like ursula and cruella) .rumple doesnt need maleficent to "manipulete" people, he can do that (he is far more manipuletive and intelligent than her) ,he need her to do that he want and be his "guard" like putting the town to sleep ,putting Regina to sleep etc...

2)he isnt clearly higher than mills ,did you see him use his magic to help thw heroes in offencive way?(merlin did, and his kind of magic is the same kind of the aprendice's magic), did you already imagine that open portals and use magic in the land without magic is not about power, is about knowledge? (like the dragon say in 5x23). And he is not like the blue, he at least do things that others cant do (like use magic in the land without it and open portals) the blue only help the heroes with knowledge (some of them Regina doesnt have because is knowledge about Light magic and Regina doesnt know a lot of it) and she isnt powerful, when hook was trapping the fairys he wasnt apointing to the blue in thw beginning,and in this time she could ( if she was the blind witch or anastasia) use a simple Tk or a blast of Light to stop hook (before he apoint the hat on her) but she didnt do, the same way that when Regina see her throwing magic on her (not catching by surprise like in E.F) and stop the blue's magic, the blue doesnt do anything after because she know that Regina is more powerful than her, and she cant beat her in a FIGHT.

3)Regina took the pan's heart because he was weak in that moment (he was absorving the neverland power and he was vunerable in that time) and he was catch by surprise because he didnt expect that Regina could break the magical tree . But the dragon was not that way, he see the Evil Queen first (showing that he wasnt catch by surprise) and she start to talk, and after that she got close and ripped his heart ( he could try to stop her, as Zelena could try to run or stop the E.Q).

4)as i already said the hat only trap if it were close and directly apoint to you (in the blue case, in the first moments when she could do something, the hat wasnt like that)

5)Regina could free him, dont use it like a fact.No its not clear. Tell me something about raw power that blue can do and Regina cannot. If you want i can tell you one, Blue could not broke gold's spell in the Shop, but cora alone could (remeber that everyone agreed that cora is +/- = Regina)

6)blue never win, (if you say when she got E.Q in E.F by surprise is ok, so she jusy win one time)