Board Thread:Character Discussion/@comment-25926288-20170421152651/@comment-25536775-20170430171935

KnocknickKnock wrote: DracoWombat wrote: KnocknickKnock wrote: DracoWombat wrote: KnocknickKnock wrote: A major character and Main character are two different things.

A major character is someone who plays an important role in the plot that just can't be replaced. Hook could have easily been replaced by Neal or August or even Graham really. His role is Emma love interest. He might get side stories but those side stories don't play an important role in the overall Story of the show or plot of the season trying to be told. Those stories are no more important than Zeleena's, Robins or Maleficents or Ursula's or Anna or Elsa's.

Now we get to see more of his side stories than those people because he is a main character which equates to his screen time.

Main Character=Screen time                                       Major Character=Importance to the plot

So Hook is a main character but not a major one. No, Hook is not interchangeable with Neal or August; neither 3A, nor 5A (And coonsequentially nor 5B) could've happened had Emma's love interest been anyone else. By yourn logic, Regina is merely "Primary Antagonist of Season One" and could've been easily replaced with Zelena. Emma is simply "Tough Girl Protag", Henry is "Kid who ties Regina and Emma together" and could've had an entire different personality.

Understand that I'm not saying that as a fan; I hate Hook with a passion. I'm merely trying to be objective. Hook is not easily replaceable with any other LI for Emma. Would Emma be better off with other men than Hook? I agree wholeheartedly. The show would've happened in the exact same way had Hook been Neal, Graham, or Walsh? No. 3A was about getting Henry back and Pan. Hook played no important part in that one besides provided the ship which by that logic would make Ariel a Major chracter because she got the thing needed to trap Pan. 5A dealt with Emma being the dark one.

You don't understand what I mean by Major or important. Getting rid of Hook doesn't change the flow of the story at all. It might change the 5B arc but not the overall story of the show. Without Hook the Curse still would have been cast, Emma still would have been the Savior who broke the curse, Emma would still be the product of true love, Regina would still be the Evil Queen, Henry still would have been born, etc.

Without Regina there would be no curse storybrooke, Emma would have never been born because Snow would have never been met Charming, in which Henry would have never been born.

It isn't about changing the show to make other characters important but rather how important they are to the current story being told. You can replace the whole cast but it wouldn't be the same story being told. What I am talking about is how important Hook is to the actual plot being told currently.

Like I said he is no more important to the plot than Zeleena, Robin or Neal. They have all had thier important moments to the show or the character but they aren't important to the overall plot being told. 90% of Hook's screen time is dedicated to being Emma's love interest. That role could be given to Neal or August without actually changing the overall story. Emma would still be the savior, she would still have True love's magic, Regina would still be the Evil Queen, the curse would still be cast and the villains like Pan,Zeleena, Black, etc would still be coming to storybrooke.

I am not saying Hook hasn't had his moments. He was needed for his ship to go to Neverland, he was needed to help Charming survive, etc. The underworld and Dark one thing could have been done to anyone else without it actually affecting the overall show.

If Neal or August was Emma's love interest and was cut by the sword and dying, the same plot would have unfolded without affecting any other character except we would have Neal/August instead of Hook. Everyone else story would follow the exact same path. You don't change Neal/August to have the same backstory or mannerism as Hook. You keep everyone's Mannerism the same and backstories the same. You just replace Hook with Neal/August. Small details might change but nothing big. That would only be minor changes like who get's screen time and who is Emma's love interest.

If your replace Regina with say Zeleena or Maleficent than alot of the characters stories change. We would replace Snow/Charming with Dorothy, or Aurora/Phillip. Basically it is a similar story with different characters. That would be a major change to the show because now you are basically changing 90% of characters.

If Hook would have left at the end of season 3A and Neal was still Alive or August was around the story would basically remain the same.

We would still have the wicked witch arc, the Frozen arc, The queens of darkness arc, etc. There would be changes but only minor changes. Thus why Hook is only a minor character.

p.S before you try to claim being a love interest makes you a major character than that would make Robin a Major character, in which we see he isn't.

You're under the assumption (that many people in the fandom incorrectly hold) that OUaT seasons are so isolated form each other that one does not impact the other and the status quo returns to how it was every half-season. But let's see:

a) Without Hook, 3A couldn't have happened. As a consequence, either Henry dies kidnapped by Pan, or the Nevengers get stuck in Neverland forever.

b) Assuming 3B can happen without Hook, you no longer have a means for someone to administer the Memory Potion to Emma. So, 3B can't happen either.

c) This is OUaT, and the writers can come up with convenient MacGuffins all the time. So, assuming there were another way for Emma's new love interest to give her the Memory Potion, Rumpel wouldn't have been able to use the ritual to free himself from the dagger in 4A, as the ritual required the heart of someone who knew him before he was the Dark One. Neal could've fulfilled this role, but Rumpel would never kill Neal. Although the spell could be rewritten to not demand such a sacrifice, Belle would not have contested to Rumpel wanting to free himself if it did not involve killing. With Rumpel in town, Rumbelle together, there is no QoD. Result: 4B can't happen either.

d) Assuming 4B could happen, 5A still can't happen. A&E hookrolled the fandom; the season was hyped as being about Emma as the Dark One but the mainstoryline was Hook's (It just took long to show). 5A needs Hook to happen as he is a central elements to the storyline.

e) 5B can't happen if not for 5A.

The show is the writing. There's no "essence" of OUaT other than what is written. If anything is changed, it's no longer the same show; that's what AUs are, inspired by the show but they're not the show. I have hundreds of Swan Queen AUs but I don't live under the illusion that they could be canon. Then every character Once upon a time is major because changing anything, in you words, it wouldn't be the same show.

You fail to comprehend what Major and Minor mean once again. The Major plot points of the show is: Emma being the savior/Regina being the Evil Queen/Dark One/Dark Curse. Without any strong ties to any of those things you aren't a major character. Not just having ties but heavy ones. Because every character have came across the Dakr one, Evil Queen, being affected by the curse and been saved by the savior(Once she broke the curse).

Hook doesn't have heavy ties to Emma being the savior. \

Hook does not have Heavy ties to the first dark Curse

Hook does no have heavy ties to the Evil Queen

Hook does not have heavy ties to the Dark one.

He might have encountered these people or things in his life but he doesn't heavily infulence any of them. If we are going to make an argument that without Hook we wouldn't have gotten to neverland than that argument could be made just about any character on the show. Neal would be major because he played an imortant part in the OZ arc and without him there would be no Henry thus Emma would have never came to storybrooke to break the curse. August would be important because without him Emma would have never went to jail ands thus never gave up Henry and without Henry being in Storybrooke, Emma would have never broke the curse. Without Maleficent, Ursula and Cruella the Dark one would have never got the dark curse to cast. Without Blue, Neal would have never went to land without magic and thus never meet Emma. We can keep going.

And you remain treating your subjective opinions on the show and what you consider to be the important plot points as objective facts, which they are not. My criteria for classifying someone as major and minor is entirely different from yours and I took great care to avoid any semblance of subjectivity in it. I'll repeat if you need a reminder:

''1-> Lead characters (Different from lead actors): characters that have their own "storyline niche", that is, characters who directly influence and may be the cause of the storylines of certain other characters that revolves exclusively around them. OUaT has four niches, Rumpel's, Emma's, Regina's, and Snow's, but Snow has lost prominence from season two onwards, so her status changed. This is different from a lead actor, as leading actors '''are contractual issues. 'The show also has four leads, JMo, Ginny, Lana, and Bobbie.

''2-> Main Characters: characters that have appeared in more than a season of the show, with individual storylines spanning multiple episodes outside of their character arc, and involvement in others' storylines. This show has, currently,  nine main characters: Regina, Emma, Zelena, Snow, Charming, Hook, Rumpel, Belle and Henry. Usually, but not always, coincides with the regular cast; Robin was never a main character, nor was Ruby. ''

''3-> Major Supporting: characters that have had individual storylines and have appeared in multiple episodes. This show has too many to list, but here are a few: Ruby, Robin, Archie, Aurora, Mulan, the Frozen cast, the QoD, Cora, Hades, Arthur, Granny, etc. ''

''4-> Minor Supporting: the rest. Examples include all dwarves other than Grumpy, all the Camelot cast other than Arthur, all the Lost Boys, all the Oz characters, etc. ''

There are different, valid criteria. Some based on screentime, others based on actor contracts. Either way, '''criteria of analysis are only valid if they're not subjective. '''And basing a criteria on "connection to important storylines" is entirely subjective.

Or, as I like to call it, another episode of "Fandoms Remain Incapable of Seeing Things Objectively".