Board Thread:Character Discussion/@comment-34360784-20180116101248/@comment-25375217-20180118064838

CoolDudeAl wrote: DatNuttyKid wrote: CoolDudeAl wrote: DatNuttyKid wrote: CoolDudeAl wrote: DatNuttyKid wrote: CoolDudeAl wrote: DatNuttyKid wrote: I agree that we cannot list Alice and Brennan on the other Hook's pages.

How do you know that everyone in the Wish Realm has the same parents? All we saw is that Emma and Henry did. No one else was given a family tree. There is absolutely no evidence for that assumption except inductive reasoning (I think I'm using that term correctly) -- because it was true once, it MUST be true every other time.

Except we know inductive reasoning doesn't apply to the Wish Realm. Using inductive reasoning, Snow, Charming, Emma, Hook, and Pinocchio have all aged for the 28 years they would have been under the curse, so, therefore, everyone must have aged for those 28 years. And yet, Robin of Locksley exists, the same age he was after being frozen for 28 years. Furthermore, his history is different as Marian died before he became Robin Hood and they were never married.

It's always safer and more encyclopedic to not assume when there is no clear evidence. And in this case, all we have is inductive reasoning, and that's not enough. Ages are very different from people's biological parents, we know ages can be altered with magic, but we haven't seen anything about changing parents with magic. Furthurmore, we have clear evidence from the show that Hook and WHook have the same past, as WHook states it on the show. Hook, Regina, and even WRumple have also stated that the Wish Realm is fake, but we know that's not true. The show has shown us repeatedly and consistently that the characters do not understand how the Wish Realm works. And how would WHook know the name of Hook's parents?

The more reliable opposite of inductive reasoning is deductive reasoning. Deductive reasoning states that because we know some things in a given Wish person's history may be different from their counterpart's, that means anything in a given Wish person's history may be different from their counterpart's. With that in mind, we cannot assume anything that has not been outright stated. The name of WHook's father and Hook's mother have not been outright stated. Well, then we are going to be waiting a long time, because I don't think the writers have any intention of covering that, as to them it has already been covered. No one's name in the Wish Realm was different (including names that happened after the timeline had to be altered, like Emma and Henry), so to assume that the names of other characters may be different between EF Prime and Wish Realm would be a logical fallicy. I don't have a problem with waiting forever. We're still waiting to find out who Lily's dad is, after all.

No, a logical fallacy would be to assume that because it's true in these cases it must be true in every case. I'm pretty sure inductive reasoning actually literally counts as a logical fallacy. Lily is a minor character, Hook is not. And the point I was making is people are waiting for something that has already been answered by the writers. It makes the wiki look bad when we don't have basic information about family trees, even when the show tells us the backstory is the same (WHook literally says his and Hook's past were the same to a point). I guess I just don't understand people's thought process on this. To me there is no way parents can be different between EF Prime and Wish Realm, because that's just not how biology works. And the arguement that someone could be the same person, but go by a different name in WR, is super flimsy. Like why would Hook's mom be named differently in the WR than EF Prime? What would have changed that on one of the two timelines? What would have changed to make Robin and the Sheriff of Nottingham 28 years younger? What would have changed to cause Marian to die? What would have changed to make Neal and Emma meet, fall in love, and have a kid in the Enchanted Forest even though Neal should be in the Land Without Magic? For that matter, what would have changed to cause Regina to fail to cast the curse in the first place? They haven't told us, and can't assume.

I don't get what's so hard to understand. We know that not everything is the same in the Wish Realm. There's more potential for us to be wrong if we assume than if we just leave it vague. We're not saying that Hook's mom isn't named Alice. We're just saying that we don't know. And we don't. We know the Wish Realm is never going to make 100% sense, so some of those things are going to remain oddities, and I don't think the writers have a good answer. But the things you list are very different than someone's biological parents. And in the case of parents (and even relationships in general) we saw everything stayed the same. Snow and Charming still had Emma as a daughter. Emma and Neal still had Henry as a son. Snow was still friends with the dwaves. Pinnocio's father was still Gepetto. Hook and Smee were still friends. Regina still had a feud with Snow. Robin still loved Marian. Rumple still loved Belle. Etc. If we are really worried about the chance that we are wrong, we can put an asterick, saying that based on WHook, real Hook's mother should be Alice, and vise versa, on the family trees. But I am 100% sure the writers didn't intend for people to think Hook and WHook's parents were different. You're still using inductive reasoning. Just because we've seen it's been true sometimes, that does not automatically make it true every time.

Why don't you reach out to the writers on Twitter? Most of them will respond to inquiries like this. At this point, we've both made our points clear and are merely repeating ourselves. I don't get why you have such a big problem with us ever leaving anything vague, but I don't care to continue a discussion where we're just talking in circles.