Board Thread:Character Discussion/@comment-34563899-20180202235154/@comment-28162607-20180204003314

Touli2 wrote: Aine1989 wrote: Touli2 wrote: Aine1989 wrote: Okay this is my issue with your argument; you argue that Rumple pre Dark One was a "lovign husband" when he was not. He refused to even listen to or negotiate with Milah when she was clearly miserable, signed away her reproductive rights and used her love for Bae to force her to stay in line. Yes she said some mean things, but he fired the first shot. Rumple also planned to burn down a castle full of innocent people and murdered Zoso because iirc, he wounded his ego. Pre DO Rumple was an asshole and DO Rumple was an asshole.

No he did not "refuse to even listen or negotiate" with Milah. In episode 5x14 "Devils Due" there's that scene where Rumple speaks to Milah and tries to make things better for her.

And Rumple signed away *his* reproductive rights *not Milah's*. And besides he did this to save his son's life.

"used her love for Bae to force her to stay in line". You mean tried to get her to be a good mother to their son rather than spend all day in the tavern with Hook?

​​​​Rumple never mistreated Milah at all before he was the dark one.

"Murdered Zozo", true Rumple killed Zozo, *but* he did this in order to take his powers which he said earlier in that episode he would use to stop the ogres war and save all the conscripted soldiers from having to fight and die. So he killed Zozo to save many. Killing one person to save more than one person's lives in justified in my opinion.

​​​​​​When does he listen to her about moving away from the place where they were social pariahs and she was miserable? What we saw in 5x14 was him making her do all the work while he played with their kid. When does he actually attempt to improve Milah's life?

He did not even consider asking Milah about deciding their future. Do you really think she could have had another man's child and not faced humiliation for it?

In 2x04 she is clearly depressed and miserable and he tells her to suck it up and try "if not for me, then for Bae" and she drops her request for respect. I am not saying leaving to go to the tavern was right, but maybe, just maybe, if Rumple actually pulled his weight or respected her, she wouldn't have needed a break. He also acts very sexist towards her, telling her she has to fulfil her "wifely duties" and even when he thinks she's been kidnapped he still only begs for her life because "Bae needs his mother" and not because she is a human being.

Yes Milah did not react well to the abuse but that does not make her a bad person. There is no "right way" to react to abuse.

Rumple could have simply controlled Zoso but the implicatin that Bae was not his pissed him off so he decided to go for murder instead.

Rumple was always bad, the Darkness just gave him the power to do it.

Actually we see quite the opposite in 5x14. Rumple said to Milah and I quote "you dont have to be doing this youreslf. I said I would help." Milah then replies "you said that and yet it still didnt get done". Milah's response says a lot. Rumple said that he would help her with the job she was doing and she said that despite him saying that it didn't get done implying that Milah wanted Rumple to do it all himself, because he said he would help her yet by her reply of "yeah well it didnt get done" shows that she wanted him to do it all himself, not to help her do it, just to do it all himself. So if anything that shows Milah wanted Rumple to do all the work.

'''Yes Milah's response says absolutely loads. It shows how he allows her to take on all the work while he plays. Rumple said he would help her and yet she ended up doing it all because "I was chasing dragonflies".'''

Are you saying Rumple should have refused to make that deal and just let his son die? Interesting morality.

I think he should have consulted with Milah about it first.

​​​Milah was not requesting respect. She was requesting to move to another place. Rumple says "we spoke about this" meaning that he thought they stay where they were. A man refusing his wife's request to take their son and move to another place is *not* abuse. And Rumple was extremely respectful to Milah. In fact Milah was probably disrepectful to Rumple. "Run home Rumple - its what you're good at". Interesting that you are trying to humanise a mother neglecting her son. And no he told her to fufill her *motherly* duties. Mothers have duties toward their children 100%. Him saying to Hook "we have a son. he needs his mother." was Rumple trying to convince Hook to let Milah go, it was not Rumple saying "I only want to save her for my son". Telling a kidnapper who has taken your wife that you and her have a son who needs his mother isn't exactly a bad plan to convince the kidnapper to release her. Afterall the kidnapper might sympathise with the son and not want him to grow up motherless, most people hate the idea of taking a child's parent away from them.

'''Rumple was all ready to move when Bae was going to be conscripted but not when Milah was miserable. He only moved when it was convenient for him.'''

'''If MY husband had taken away my choice to have more kids, made me miserable and refused to empathise with me I would not be nice to him. Your issue here is that you think Milah should be pulling all the weight in the relationship.'''

When zozo was pretending to be a beggar, he told Rumple he could control the dark one and get them to do whatever he wanted. Rumple said he didn't want to do this because he feared the dark one might murder him. Rumple killed Zozo out of fear and ok maybe anger as well but without the fear of being murdered by Zozo, I strongly believe Rumple would not have killed him because Rumple could not bring himself to kill the man who refused to give him and Milah the cure for his son's snake bite and then steal the cure from him even though from his perspective it was the only way for him to get the cure and save his son's life. _________________________________________________________________________Rumple as the dark one killed people without breaking a sweat.

Rumple before being the dark one could not bring himself to kill the man who refused to sell him and Milah the cure for Baelfire's snake bite and steal the cure from him even though from his perspective it was the only way to get the cure and save his son's life.

This is evidence Rumple was not evil in the first four seasons and only committed evil deeds in them because of the dark one curse.