Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-25926288-20160516005939/@comment-28162607-20160517143525

Eskaver wrote: Aine1989 wrote:'''About Roland:In a perfect world, I'd like him and Robin Jr to either Snow and David or Emma and Killian. However, since that would never happen, I'd like Robin Jr to go back to Sherwood Forest with Roland and Zelena to visit often. ''' Why would Roland and Robin ever go to those people? Little John practically raised Roland and that would be beyond irrationality to give them to people who never raised kids.

'''By Emma's a better person, I admit I got a bit carried away, I mean that Regina was basically saying that "You don't understand how hard it is to fight darkness because you won." But she does understand how hard it is, even though she was better at resisting it than she was. It's like an addict saying to an ex-addict 'You don't understand how hard it is!' Regina basically said "Yeah shut up your struggles don't match mine."'''

Well, I think Regina means that Emma while being Dark One was fairly okay and at the precipice of the drop, while Regina was consumed, mass-murdering etc. I think I'd agree that Emma's not like a massmurdering tyrant, lol.

'''With regard to Snow and Emma, I simply call that the Regina Effect, where Regina does something bad and everyone just goes along with it ex. in s4 when she took Belle's heart and no one seemed to care. Also, they need someone other than Regina to blame for when this goes wrong.'''

Hook doesn't really do much and Rumple is always the one to blame even when he's right. So, I would say that them catering to Regina would be just as bad as them treating Rumple the way they treat him.

'''My whole problem with the separating the Evil Queen from Regina is that it was the equivaent of a 'Get Out Of Jail (or in this case, consequences) Free' card. Regina said herself 'The EQ's baggage, her karma will still be there.' I have a problem with Snow, the woman Regina disowned, abused and terrorised and hurt more than anyone else and Emma, the woman who had her childhood ripped away by Regina, her son abused, was nearly killed and is still treated like crap by Regina simply going "Oh well we can't have you facing consequences for your past mistakes!

Regina has a projection issue...which I think we all know. But Regina was going from EQ this and that to saying I. I think she was growing, but then Snow and co come choose to do the bad thing and separate them. Snow loves Regina, despite their past. Emma likely doesn't blame someone else and just accepts life the way it is. If all the characters were lashing out in vengenance, it would be a very boring show because they'd all be the same character. Plus, Snow is relatively forgiving and I can believe that.

Im sorry but I don't buy this as a redemption. Redemption isn't magically taking away all your bad qualities so you never have to deal with any consequences. It's working to be a better person by putting in effort eg Killian, Arthur, Ingrid.'''

But that's the lesson for next season, lol. It'll be about leanring that you can't just separate yourself to deal with your problems. And Hook's was borderline contingent on Emma or do we ignore Dark Hook? Arthur hasn't redeemed himself at all. He sees that he was bad, but he didn't do anything besides that. Ingrid didn't really redeem herself. She had a self-relialization moment and didn't really have much to redeem besides manipulating Elsa, Anna and Emma.

'''And then there was the victim blaming by Snow "I helped bring her into this world." No, Snow you did NOT. You were an innocent child who did nothing wrong.'''

Snow always blames herself. That's simply her character. If you don't like it, cool, but she's been this way since season 2.

'''My other problem is basically, when did Emma ever lash out at Regina for making her an orphan? Or Snow for making her an orphan? Or the people of Storybrooke? Early season 3 was the last time and Regina flipped it to blame Snow for ruining her life. But of course Regina "No One Knows How Bad I Have It" Mills would say 'Oh I have to accept a life of suffering'. When Killian died (for the third time) we didn't have a scene where Emma sits and complains how nothing ever works out for her but she had to sit and listen to Regina complaining?'''

If you say that Regina complains to much, why have everyone on the show do the exact same? I'm sure you like Emma, Snow, probably Hook, because they don't complain, lol. These are just different characters and I enjoy them for those very reasons.

'''Finally-Regina straight up said she hates doing the right thing because it never works out for her. What in the actual hell?'''

Well, I would understand Regina and by extension Rumple. Doing things the easy way is......easy. Regina and Rumple went in thinking that changing themselves would lead to happiness. But what they realize is that you suffer if you're a hero and you suffer if you are a villain. Rumple chooses to be a villain because honestly, nothing ever works out for him, and the heroes seem borderline stupid and forgiving. All the three villians fall in the trap of "redumption" that the show created. They all were good for "reasons" and when those reasons aren't there or good enough, they backslide. They all seem to do it for the prizes they can win and when they don't win, is it really worth the effort?

Yeah, yeah the show "tells, doesn't show" the opposite as if they are all truly redeemed and stuff.

Okay the Roland bit is because I want to keep him. He's so cute how can you not want to keep him?

What do you mean about Hook not doing much? (sorry but it just felt random). The Rumple and Regina treatments are very different in my opinion; he is now regarded as the enemy and is treated as such while Regina's like "Let's all hold hands and sing around the campfire."

Killian's redemption was very much for himself-"Being the man I want to be." And it started with Baelfire. Emma may have inspired him to be better but he did it for himself and to fix his past mistakes-seen with Bae and Ariel. I believe we have had this discussion before and it went nowhere so I'd rather not get into that. He was tortured, presumably for his Dark One-ness. And he willingly subjected himself to said torture. I think that's enough payment. Arthur is now dedicating his death to helping the people of the UW, which is pretty good and I'm kinda bummed we'll never see it. Ingrid killed herself to make up for it. All this is redemption because they are working to better themselves while Regina takes the easy route.

It's not Snow I'm mad at it's the writers for saying 'Snow is to blame for the EQ'.

My problem is that Regina is the only one who complains. Other characters have had it harder than her but they manage to get through it without complaining. Why do we see Regina whining over how life 'never works out for her' but not Emma about how she felt like an orphan for 28 years (okay we hear some but nowhere near as much as Regina) or Killian talking about how he, nine episodes ago, was being brutally tortured.

The thing is, Regina says she 'hates' doing good because there's nothing in it for her and it "leads to loss". Killian is shown to do good when there was nothing in it for him-killing himself in 5x11, owning up to Ariel, saving David (he didn't plan on telling anyone and was uncomfortable with the praise), trading the JR for a magic bean (again, didn't plan on telling anyone), saving Arthur's ass (when he could have let the guy who killed him suffer forever).