Board Thread:Character Discussion/@comment-4839682-20131003142941/@comment-22525977-20131009230907

Snow

2. The big problem is the way the show handles the way the map works ("you need to stop being in denial about who you really are") combined with the fact that, after all the glorification of biological parents over adoptive ones and the Emma-needs-to-accept-her-parents-in-a-paternal-role thread running through two, I don't actually trust the writers to not continue in this vein of portraying Emma as in the wrong. My objection is not to the specific instance of vulnerability (which, as I've pointed out, she's demonstrated and been honest about many times previously), but that on a metatextual level, it feels to me as though the intention is not that Pan is pushing her into the kinds of emotions he wants her to feel and then capitalizing on them to twist her thoughts around (which is what we're shown in the text) but that Emma legitimately needs to come to these conclusions (which is the impression I'm getting as a result of this episode happening in this particular way after all the weird treatments of adoptive parents in one and two).

Though I also take issue with the concept that Emma's true identity is "the savior," because that's not it either—she's Emma, and saving Storybrooke and feeling abandonment as a result of her upbringing are only facets of who she actually is.

3. Charming absolutely thought "I'll do whatever it takes to make her believe in herself the way I do" when he went to get Rumpel's help and then faked the Excalibur thing. The problem is that he felt entitled to dismiss what Snow was (quite reasonably) saying about wanting to retreat, and instead chose to use first magic and then regular deceit to trick her into believing—and that as a result of that belief, she put her life at risk to confront Regina. (And her life was at risk—Regina is very, very good at magic, after all)

There is a huge, huge difference between trying to convince someone with words, like Henry did David in "We Are Both," and using treachery to instill them with false confidence based on fabricated circumstances (Snow only fought Regina because she believed the sword to be a magical failsafe). And then trying to pass the latter off as romantic.

Charming might not have actually thought to himself that he knows best because he's a man, but he did believe 100% that he knew Snow better than Snow did and he went behind her back, lied to her, and put her life at risk in order to get her to believe him.

The dwarves themselves were not being sexist; however, the show, by having Snow not an active participant in the discussion about her future, was. (That and, if the dwarves were so concerned about golddigger!Charming, why didn't they take their concerns to Snow?)

Regina:

What I really don't understand is why you seem to think that trying something new when the only other viable option is not working is a bad trait for a character to have.

Regina is very result-oriented; if something is clearly not getting results, she's not going to keep doing it. The decisions she makes are based pretty solidly in the information she knows and include logical progressions of thought ("mermaid is trying to kill us with a storm" -> "neutralizing the mermaid will probably stop the storm" and "spouting character traits and titles at the map is proving futile" -> "we can use the map this way instead, and now we're not sitting around accomplishing nothing.")

(I would like to point out that it wasn't killing the mermaid that made the storm get worse, it was the fact that immediately after killing the mermaid the group fractured even more—it was their arguing and disagreements that were fueling the storm, not the mermaid, hence all that "you're going to kill yourselves" stuff)

A person who is proactive based on sound logical conclusions about the information they have is always going to come off as more competent than the person content to sit around and keep trying the same thing over and over long after it's clear that it won't work. You cannot be competent if you don't even try.

As for Emma: at the end of "Lost Girl," she says something along the lines of "It's time to stop playing Pan's game and start making him play ours," which implies pretty strongly that she's not going to sit back and let the murderous child demon call the shots—quite rightly. You never ever want to be in a position where the demon is running you around in circles for his own amusement; Pan's game is obviously rigged and so their options are (1) play by the rules Pan made specifically to set them up for failure, or (2) find ways to circumvent his rules so they have an actual shot at actually saving Henry.

Saying that breaking Pan's rules is unwise ignores the fact that following Pan's rules is even more unwise. This is what we've seen of his game's set up so far:

1. Instigated by giving Emma a map which is designed to work only when she is feeling completely broken and alone.

2. Force Emma to keep playing the game by dangling Henry as bait.

3. Killing David and Mary Margaret to further break Emma is, if not the endgame, a significant piece of the plan. (and why would Pan not try to follow through on these threats? He's already managed to potentially fatally wound David)

4. Use a combination of brute force and mind games to make them too afraid to break the rules designed in Pan's favor.

And this is what they learned as a result of Regina's tracking spell—Emma even says it outright. If they want to beat Pan they have to find a way to change his rules, because playing his game the way he wants them to results in the death of at least two members of their party, Emma completely demoralized and psychologically crushed, and Henry either dead or every bit as crushed as Emma. Following the rules is the opposite of the safe choice, here.

David's refusal to tell anyone that he might be slowly dying is really, really stupid, not just because he will die but because the rest of the group has no idea that he is a liability. What's going to happen when they rely on him because they think he's uninjured and he keels over into death throes? They're in a life or death situation, here, and one of their number is already a captive of the psycho playing twisted games with them. The last thing they need is for David to try to convince them that he's still fully functional and not possibly dying from poison.

I rewatched the scene in which Regina puts the tracking spell on the map, and I'd like to point out that, after Emma said she was the savior, Regina is just as hopeful as the rest of them that it will work (she steps forward, anticipating). Then, when it fails, she's disappointed, Emma is confused, MM says "No, it's okay, we'll figure it out" (implying they're going to keep sitting there saying things), and then Regina grabs the map. And it isn't as if she does the spell and drags them off after it without an explanation. The scene goes like this:

Emma: I don't get it—I said I'm the savior, there's nothing I've denied more than that.

MM: No, it's okay, we'll figure it out.

Regina: No, you won't— [takes map]

Emma: Regina!

''Regina: But I can. I'm beginning to think there isn't a map on here, but it can still lead us to Henry. ''

David: I thought we decided that using magic was a bad idea.

''Hook: For once, I agree with the prince... I told you we were getting along.''

Emma: The hell are you doing?

''Regina: A locator spell. This parchment belonged to Pan; it'll lead us to him.''

As soon as Regina says "locator spell," Emma's whole expression changes from skepticism to interest with maybe a touch of hope. She offers not one more word of protest, unless you count deadpanning at Hook ("you mean the place you told us never to set foot?"), and she, not Regina, takes the first step after the parchment.

(The score, incidentally, is what I would describe as pre-asskicking music: it begins with light intensity and picks up speed and power until the scene break, and it builds to a sinister-but-hopeful note—not the kind of music I'd expect if Regina were being as tyrannical as you say.)

 Then, the next time we see them, Emma's in a relatively good mood and clearly thinks that Regina had the right idea—to the point of thanking her for it. Before, when they first got the map, Emma was saying that Pan said it had to be her and she has to do what Pan said, and when Regina tries to grab the map, Emma stops her (and Regina listens). When we get to the scene I quoted above, though, it's clear that Emma's as fed-up with getting the map to work the "right" way as Regina—"there's nothing I've denied more than that!"—and she offers very little protest in comparison to the first scene (by contrast, neither David nor Hook change their opinions in the slightest—they protest vocally both times).