Board Thread:Spoilers!/@comment-1916997-20170901012801/@comment-1916997-20171116021717

Posted by Personafail on a closed thread, thought people might like to read:

Alright, before we start, I know they have an actress to play Rapunzel (Meegan Warner). She's 26. Gabrielle Awnar (Victoria) is 47, so yeah, 20 years is a lot. But they look alike: same shape of face, chin, nose, lips, eyes...

Could it be, right?

I mean, her last name, 'Belfrey', obviously comes from 'belfry', which comes from Old French 'berfrei' which is derived from Germanic 'bergan' (to protect) and 'frithuz' (peace); that is, it was originally a watch tower.

And let's not forget 'Belfrey Towers', right?

To makes things ever crippier, ivy is a plant that also growns on suitable surfaces for climbing, including trees, natural rockoutcrops or man-made structures such as towers, climbing to at least 30m above the ground.

Honestly, too many tower references plus that tower chess piece.

"Oh, but Alice played chess with Hook! She must be his kid!"

Yeah, right. As if anything on this show would be that obvious. They aren't stupid.

And no, I don't believe in concidences.

Adam said there is something about Tremaine's past that no one can predict - a huge surprise about who she is.

Perhaps Meegan Warner is showing up in flashbacks, as young Rapunzel?

Try to picture young Killian Jones. A thief, like Flynn, or maybe an adventurer.

He sees a tower and a girl up there, singing. He climbs the tower. He falls in love with the girl. She gets pregnant.

Killian knows there is a Witch that keeps Rapunzel in there - so he tries at all costs to free the woman she loves.

But Gothel knows best.

In the original tale, Gothel sends Rapunzel away, but keeps her hair, and tricks the prince into thinking Rapunzel was still there, waiting for him. Then, she harms his eyes, and sends him to a desert. He wanders the desert when Rapunzel, who gave birth to twins, finds him. Her tears heal his eyes and they return to his kingdom, and get married.

<p style="font-size:16px;">What if Gothel did send Rapunzel away, but kept her child? Then Hook would climb the tower and only find his baby, but not the woman he loved - Gothel could lie to him telling that Rapunzel left or died.

<p style="font-size:16px;">Killian keeps visiting his child, as he can't defeat the Witch, till the day his child is gone - he only finds Gothel trapped in chains - maybe Rapunzel finally defeated Gothel, abandoning her in the tower (just like in the original tale).

<p style="font-size:16px;">Killin spends many years to find his child.

<p style="font-size:16px;">He turns into Captain Hook.

<p style="font-size:16px;">He meets Lady Tremaine - wife of a nobleman, and mother of three girls (Anastasia, Drizella and Cinderella) - and yes, I believe Tremaine was a good stepmother to Cinderella before Anastasia died.

<p style="font-size:16px;">She reconizes him right away, but he doesn't reconize her.

<p style="font-size:16px;">They have an arrangement? Bussiness? We do know that Tremaine's husband died, so perhaps she paid Hook to do the job. But then he leaves, after stealing Tremaine as well, not realizing she's the mother of the child he's searching.

<p style="font-size:16px;">It could explain these lines back on episode 2...

<p style="font-size:16px;">''H: Well, I heard you were in this realm. I had to see for myself.''

<p style="font-size:16px;">''T: After what you did to me, Captain, you're lucky you have eyes left to see anything at all. Now, tell me what you want, before I give you a second hook, Hook.''

<p style="font-size:16px;">''H: Well [Chuckles] you're not gonna hurt me. Not when I can help you with a problem like Henry Mills. I can make him go home, and we can both get what we want.''

<p style="font-size:16px;">''V: [Narrows eyes] And what is it you want? ''

<p style="font-size:16px;">H: A woman.

<p style="font-size:16px;">V: [Sighs loudly and looks down, frustrated and somehow sad?]

<p style="font-size:16px;">H: Named Emma Swan.

<p style="font-size:16px;">''V: [Raises head, recomposing herself] What makes you think this...Emma Swan would possibly love you, when no one else would? ''

<p style="font-size:16px;">Alright, there is a past here. Even if Tremaine is not Rapunzel, there is a huge past behind this dialogue. Maybe he used her, maybe they used each other but he left her in trouble?

<p style="font-size:16px;">Funny thing is that when I re-watched this scene, I noticed a few things:

<p style="font-size:16px;">1 - Tremaine speaks Emma's name with disdain - she's jealous.

<p style="font-size:16px;">2 - When Hook approaches Tremaine a little to much, even though he is a mess, she is suddenly breathless by being so close to him.

<p style="font-size:16px;">3 - For someone that deserved to lose his eyes for whatever he did to her, Tremaine's quite friendly to him.

<p style="font-size:16px;">4 - I'm already shiping them, not going to deny that.

<p style="font-size:16px;">So, Rogers and Victoria?

<p style="font-size:16px;">Also, it could mean that Anastasia's Hook's child! And that would explain why she's so special to Victoria - Anastasia is the fruit of her first and only love - she's like a memory of a dream Victoria will do anything to keep alive.

<p style="font-size:16px;">Now, the Witch...

<p style="font-size:16px;">Gothel, that's for sure. Adam confirmed that the fans already figured it out who she was. As almost everyone bets on Gothel, then it must be her.

<p style="font-size:16px;">I mean, the fact that she was so desperate for her tea, her special brew?

<p style="font-size:16px;">Would you it matter her special tea? Well, in Tangled, Rapunzel's mother was dying and so the king had to find that special flower. He used the flower to make a special brew to save his queen. Consequentely, Rapunzel was born blonde, and her hair and tears are capable of healing pretty much anything.

<p style="font-size:16px;">Later on episode 5, Tremaine tells Ivy to go to an herbalist to buy some things. Next episode, Ivy will be making a potion that will wake up Regina (probably).

<p style="font-size:16px;">But how can Tremaine of all people know how to do a special brew that would make one stay awake under the curse?

<p style="font-size:16px;">Well, her hair was cut off, but let's not forget her tears. In Tangled, Rapunzel's tears saved Flynn.

<p style="font-size:16px;">Tremaine's tears can be also the only thing keeping Anastasia "alive".

<p style="font-size:16px;">So, Victoria knows that she can't ressurect her child with her tears, but Gothel knows about the heart of the truest believer, and how to make a ritual, and so they make a deal.

<p style="font-size:16px;">Episode 2 implied that:

<p style="font-size:16px;">V: [Inhales deeply]: Don't you forget you're my prisoner.

<p style="font-size:16px;">''W: Really? Because the way I see it is that we're both shackled in our own way. And the question is, who is the actual prisoner and to whom?''

<p style="font-size:16px;">''V: [Trembles] This was a courtesy a peace offering. Consider it rescinded.''

<p style="font-size:16px;">''W: You may destroy the girl. You may take everything she cares about. You may get your daughter back. But then you'll have to deal with me.''

<p style="font-size:16px;">If she's Rapunzel, that would mean that dealing with the Witch turns out to being trapped in a tower again?

<p style="font-size:16px;">Cause we know that all magic comes with a price.

<p style="font-size:16px;">What price will Victoris pay to have her child back?

<p style="font-size:16px;">Honestly, I don't think she's evil. Not even Lucy hates her. She calls her grandmother. Why would she if she was evil? I mean, didn't Henry mistreat Regina after finding out she was the Evil Queen back in season 1? I find Victoria's and Lucy's relationship rather odd. I mean, Victoria forced Ivy to take Lucy to Halloween. That didn't seem...evil. And on last episode, Victoria looked hurt to speak so harsly to Drizella, as if she was forcing herself to do it. Why? I think she treats Ivy harshly because she wants to make her strong to face the future - a future that will imply on Victoria not being there to care for her children, as she'll indeed pay a price to have Anastasia back.

<p style="font-size:16px;">Well, that's it. Lots of speculation that I actually missed, cause the show wasn't that good recently (season 5 was terrible). Now, we finally have an interesting plot.

<p style="font-size:16px;">Which means...

<p style="font-size:16px;">''I. NEED. ANSWERS.''

<p style="font-size:16px;margin-bottom:0px!important;">EXTRA NOTE: Did anyone also noticed that Victoria's tea set and tray are made out of Maleficent's horns?? You don't believe it, watch episode 5 again. I almost screamed. If Mal's is an herbalist of sorts under his curse (which would in fact resemble a bit of Kristin Bauer's lifestyle), it would be hilarious and totally worth the wait.